Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Re: source for gas springs (Dave Thompson)
2. 03:05 AM - Re: source for gas springs (Michel Therrien)
3. 03:05 AM - Re: source for gas springs (Michel Therrien)
4. 03:50 AM - Re: Re: flanging dies (Monty Graves)
5. 03:51 AM - Re: Zenith- Avery flanging tool (was List: Plans builder HELP!!! ) (MacDonald Doug)
6. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: flanging dies (Christopher Smith)
7. 04:56 AM - Re: Flying stuff (ron dewees)
8. 05:28 AM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Noel Loveys)
9. 06:26 AM - Re: Flying Stuff (Brian kissinger)
10. 06:45 AM - Re: Plans builder HELP!!! (LarryMcFarland)
11. 07:13 AM - Slips, spins, and questionnairs (Bill Naumuk)
12. 07:22 AM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Mark Sherman)
13. 07:46 AM - Re: Fitting Stratus/601 cowl (Jeff)
14. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Flying Stuff (Christopher Smith)
15. 07:56 AM - 601XL Parts List (lwinger)
16. 08:20 AM - Re: flanging dies/ WING WALK area (Big Gee)
17. 08:25 AM - Re: Flying stuff (fred sanford)
18. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: Flying Stuff (Christopher Smith)
19. 08:37 AM - Sport Pilot CFI with SLSA in South Florida (paulvhhill)
20. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Re: Fuel System Poser - solved!/ really?? :-) Danger joke (Gary Gower)
21. 08:59 AM - Aileron dimension on 601HD (Bill Steer)
22. 08:59 AM - Re: Engine Choice (paulvhhill)
23. 10:03 AM - Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part III (messydeer)
24. 10:04 AM - Re: 601XL Parts List (wscribb)
25. 10:36 AM - Re: Fitting Stratus/601 cowl (George Swinford)
26. 12:08 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 60 Msgs - 07/03/06 (Raymond D. Worley)
27. 12:20 PM - Re: Plans builder HELP!!! (Flydog1966@aol.com)
28. 12:43 PM - Re: Flying stuff (Ron Lee)
29. 01:03 PM - Re: 601XL Parts List (Larry Winger)
30. 01:24 PM - [ Dave Thompson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
31. 01:30 PM - Re: Plans builder HELP!!! (ROBERT SCEPPA)
32. 01:53 PM - Re: Aileron dimension on 601HD (LarryMcFarland)
33. 03:53 PM - Re: Sport Pilot CFI with SLSA in South Florida (Craig Payne)
34. 03:53 PM - McMaster-Carr (Richard T. Perry)
35. 03:55 PM - Re: Sport Pilot CFI with SLSA in South Florida (Craig Payne)
36. 05:01 PM - Homemade AOA help (Michael Valentine)
37. 05:40 PM - Re: McMaster-Carr (Jaybannist@cs.com)
38. 06:08 PM - Re: Homemade AOA help (Paul Mulwitz)
39. 07:47 PM - New Site Announcement (William Dominguez)
40. 07:57 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Noel Loveys)
41. 08:06 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part III (Noel Loveys)
42. 08:35 PM - Re: 601XL Parts List (Christian Tremblay)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: source for gas springs |
Guys,
I have no idea if Surplus Center sells gas springs that will be appropriate
for any aircraft. I just saw a list of over 10 springs and thought of you
guys. I agree with the other guys. If we need a part from Zenith, we can buy
it from them. If I can find the same part elsewhere for less, most likely
I'll buy the less expensive one. I no way mean to skimp on quality, but if I
can save a buck here & there on the correct parts, all the better.
Besides, I think they have lots of other cool stuff too!
Surpluscenter.com
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
(No, mI don't work for them)
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: source for gas springs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I bought mine from McMaster (wwww.mcmaster.com). They
sell those ones specified in the plans. with the same
part no.
I paid 8$ or 12$ each.
They also have a nice guide for determining what
lenght and strenght you need.
Michel
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: source for gas springs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I just looked on the web site. It is the 9416K
series. I don't remember exactly which one (I think
it is the K12, but you just have to make measurements.
They are 9.88$ each. You need to buy the fittings
seperately (approx. 1.25$ each).
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: flanging dies |
attached is a file drawing for plans for flanging dies from RSW eng. for
metal ones. But they can be made from wood as well.
The female die is fairly easy to make as one piece with a router and
mating camfer bit...if you have one and also possible with a drill press I
would guess.
The male side is easier to make as three separate flat pieces then both
glued and screwed together.
3/4 hardwoods work the best followed by 3/4 plywood.
And for us that will only use them a few times. Cheap particle board
works very well too. Mine and B. J. Swaller's are 5/8 particle board left
over from carpet underlayment jobs......with scraps of thinner plywood
mixed in. B.J. made his on a drill press.....
They don't have to look pretty to make a nice flange.
Align the dies and drill a hole threw the center for a bolt and big flat
washers to squeeze the dies and form the flange. or put in a shop press
or large arbor press.....
You get the idea........
Monty Graves
701 scratch builder
At 01:56 AM 7/4/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>I would love to get my hands on the plans for the dies. Would post to my
>website if anyone would like. Between the no weld brake plans from David
>Clay & this I have gotten half my questions solved about plans building!
>
>On 7/3/06, Big Gee <<mailto:taffy0687@yahoo.com>taffy0687@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Larry
>>When I built my 701, I made my flanging dies from plywood as per Chris H.
>>plans. I used them for my 701, got permission from ZAC to use them on
>>the 601 (plans called for slightly different size flanges) and my cousin
>>is now using them for his 701. Simple to make, but take a little
>>time. At the time (no expereince) it took me one day to make a
>>male/female set, the second day I made two different sets.---------(now I
>>could make them all in one day) I have friends who believe in overkill
>>and think they have to be mechined from aluminum at a mechine shop----not
>>so-- unless you are going into the airplane production business.
>>Fritz -- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
>>
>><mailto:LHusky@aol.com>LHusky@aol.com wrote:
>>>OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell. I
>>>am 320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I am
>>>at a point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes
>>>are cut, just needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from
>>>Aircraft Tool Supply because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said
>>>the company has been back ordered for some time now and the manufacture
>>>said it will be at least another month, so I bought this one. IT
>>>STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a perfectly good hole. It
>>>won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am wanting to build my
>>>center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and the front one
>>>can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
>>>
>>>I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these
>>>dye's for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care
>>>if they are made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make
>>>them, or does anyone have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to
>>>me. I am running out of things to do on the fuse now. I still have
>>>wings to build after the fuse!! I could continue using the tool I just
>>>bought, but I really hate using it. My building buddy already has a lot
>>>on his plate and needs his tools right now. We were neck and neck in
>>>the build, but he has long passed me. I looked at the Sonex site, but
>>>there's is smaller and I would rather stay with the plans. Any help
>>>would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and a correctional
>>>officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these specialty
>>>tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal,
>>>plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>
>
>--
>Christopher W. E. Smith
>fly1m1
><http://ch-601xl.com>http://ch-601xl.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Avery flanging tool (was List: Plans builder |
HELP!!! )
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
The tool I got from ATS was too large and it just made
a mess. The tool from Avery has two smaller nylon
rollers and works much better.
Admittedly the flanging tool does not quite do as good
of a job as flanging dies would. It takes a little
practice to get the feel for the tool. After doing a
few dozen holes, I am able to do a presentable job
with the nylon rollers. The advantage to the Avery
tool is one tool will work for all hole sizes instead
of several die sizes.
I suppose that if you are set up to make the dies
easily, they might be worth the effort. For me, the
flanging tool works quite well.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch builder
working on elevator
__________________________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: flanging dies |
Thanks Monty. I have posted this info on my website. Now if I would just
order the plans!
On 7/4/06, Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com> wrote:
>
> attached is a file drawing for plans for flanging dies from RSW eng. for
> metal ones. But they can be made from wood as well.
>
> The female die is fairly easy to make as one piece with a router and
> mating camfer bit...if you have one and also possible with a drill press I
> would guess.
>
> The male side is easier to make as three separate flat pieces then both
> glued and screwed together.
>
> 3/4 hardwoods work the best followed by 3/4 plywood.
> And for us that will only use them a few times. Cheap particle board
> works very well too. Mine and B. J. Swaller's are 5/8 particle board left
> over from carpet underlayment jobs......with scraps of thinner plywood
> mixed in. B.J. made his on a drill press.....
> They don't have to look pretty to make a nice flange.
>
> Align the dies and drill a hole threw the center for a bolt and big flat
> washers to squeeze the dies and form the flange. or put in a shop press
> or large arbor press.....
>
> You get the idea........
>
> Monty Graves
> 701 scratch builder
>
> At 01:56 AM 7/4/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> >I would love to get my hands on the plans for the dies. Would post to my
> >website if anyone would like. Between the no weld brake plans from David
> >Clay & this I have gotten half my questions solved about plans building!
> >
> >On 7/3/06, Big Gee <<mailto:taffy0687@yahoo.com>taffy0687@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>Larry
> >>When I built my 701, I made my flanging dies from plywood as per Chris
> H.
> >>plans. I used them for my 701, got permission from ZAC to use them on
> >>the 601 (plans called for slightly different size flanges) and my
> cousin
> >>is now using them for his 701. Simple to make, but take a little
> >>time. At the time (no expereince) it took me one day to make a
> >>male/female set, the second day I made two different sets.---------(now
> I
> >>could make them all in one day) I have friends who believe in overkill
> >>and think they have to be mechined from aluminum at a mechine
> shop----not
> >>so-- unless you are going into the airplane production business.
> >>Fritz -- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
> >>
> >><mailto:LHusky@aol.com>LHusky@aol.com wrote:
> >>>OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell. I
> >>>am 320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I am
> >>>at a point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes
> >>>are cut, just needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from
> >>>Aircraft Tool Supply because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They
> said
> >>>the company has been back ordered for some time now and the manufacture
> >>>said it will be at least another month, so I bought this one. IT
> >>>STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a perfectly good hole. It
> >>>won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am wanting to build my
> >>>center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and the front
> one
> >>>can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
> >>>
> >>>I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these
> >>>dye's for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't
> care
> >>>if they are made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can
> make
> >>>them, or does anyone have a set they would be willing to sell or rent
> to
> >>>me. I am running out of things to do on the fuse now. I still have
> >>>wings to build after the fuse!! I could continue using the tool I just
> >>>bought, but I really hate using it. My building buddy already has a
> lot
> >>>on his plate and needs his tools right now. We were neck and neck in
> >>>the build, but he has long passed me. I looked at the Sonex site, but
> >>>there's is smaller and I would rather stay with the plans. Any help
> >>>would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and a correctional
> >>>officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these specialty
> >>>tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal,
> >>>plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Christopher W. E. Smith
> >fly1m1
> ><http://ch-601xl.com>http://ch-601xl.com
>
>
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Bill, Glad you are out of annual again. The first one is a big one.
I recorded about 15 pages in airframe and engine logs.
The LRI will be great for you. Take off without looking at it and got
level and start some power on and off stalls. You will get to see the
critical area by the seat of the pants and then look at the gauge. I
just copied the angle drawn on the plans and it was correct for my
"yellow" area.
Good luck
Ron
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
> Ron, great to hear from you. I finished up the annual and mods tonight
> and after washing tomorrow I'll try flying again. It's been a month.
> Hope I remember how ! I can't wait to see how the LRI works out I just
> installed. Hope it's as big a help to me as you have indicted it has
> been for you. Take care, Bill
Message 8
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| Subject: | Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Mark:
I congratulate you on using the Alodine and zinc chromate. I think the
epoxy base is a bit of overkill if you aren't going to try to stick cloth
over it but as you say it will stick!!
If you really want pure aluminium and I don't think you really do, its
available in sheets from the folks who make aluminium doors etc. You will
find pure aluminium isn't nearly as corrosion resistant as alumiclad 6061.
You will also find it has the strength a little greater than wet toilet
paper and rivets won't stay tight in it.
Did you alodine both sides of your skins? Doing so protects the skins under
the nice urethane paints and primers.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark Sherman
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:24 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman
> <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
> --- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello Bob and Listers:
> >
> > I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can
> > approach for the
> > horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons
> > with acceptable results. I have
> > two questions for everyone:
> >
> > 1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever
> > by hand. I'm using a
> > plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to
> > remain nameless so as not to
> > incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the
> > parts to take the shine off
> > them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something
> > to make the job move along?
> >
> > 2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a
> > scotchbrite/lacquer
> > thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff
> > REALLY sticks !!!! I like it -
> > but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a
> > two-part epoxy primer?
> >
> >
> > Tracy Smith
> > Naugatuck, CT
> > 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Tracy.
>
> I used the two part epoxy on the entire airplane
> inside. Alumaprep/alodine then prime. Yes it was a
> lot of work. I let the alumaprep do all the work of
> dulling the surface. I mixed some 409 cleaner in with
> the full strength alumaprep to do two steps in one. I
> cleaned it with thinner first to get off the ink, then
> let the alumaprep do its thing.
>
> I know a lot of people say there is no need to go to
> all this work, that 6061 will outlast all of us.
> Maybe so, but I had a 1964 C-150 that was paper thin
> because of corrosion after thirty years and never by
> the ocean. Yeah I know it was 2024 not 6061. But the
> 2024 they use has an almost pure aluminum layer clad
> on it, this is way more corrosion resistant than 6061.
> Where did all that pure aluminum go?
>
> I figure that some new owner of my plane thirty years
> from now will look inside at no corrosion and say WOW
> did this guy really know how to build an airplane.
> Worth every extra hour I put into it.
>
> Although I must confess that I found a place called
> Pacific Coast Anodizing that did what the industry
> calls Chem-film, (alumaprep/alodine)that did all of
> both wing parts (ribs,skins,spars all little parts)
> for $75.00 and the entire fuse and tail parts for
> another $125.00 for me. I got them back individually
> wrapped in paper, picked up and delivered to my door.
> Not bad if you live in the central valley of
> California.
>
> Keep up the good work I think it is worth it.
>
> Mark S.
> 701/912S
> Paint booth built
> painting
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | re: Flying Stuff |
Hello,
Good inputs everyone...thanks. Paul Tipton makes some good observations from his
701
flying...thanks. I dont want to get bogged down into too much hangar flying
(its fun though). However I believe what the main concern is the more aggressive
slips
to lose altitude. With the 701s design we shouldnt have to kick into a big slip
to
drop altitude. If we are way too high then (as Paul T says) maybe a go-around
is the
safe thing to do. When I started to do a big slip one time with Roger thats when
he made
the comment mentioning that the 701 is not recommended to be slipped. Its not
a little slip
into the wind to kill a crosswind drift...its a big slip to drop altitude. By
the way, Roger
owns a 1946 Luscombe too & knows how to do big slips to drop altitude...hes a good
pilot.
I hope we all build & fly em safe.
Cheers, Brian
www.brainsflight.com
ps Chuck D, replied to you off-line...I am of school #1 too...kill the drift....don't
crab
do not archive
Hi Chuck,
I think writing to ZAC on the slip question is a great idea.
I would guess the kind of slip which may not be a good idea for the
701 is the deep cross controlled condition used to dump lots of
altitude without gaining airspeed. I can't imagine it is
inappropriate to do the mild version of a slip commonly used to deal
with mild crosswind landings.
Sometimes I wish it were easy to ask Chris Heintz questions like this
rather than trying to get Sebastian or one of the other guys to
really understand the question.
Paul
XL Fuselage
do not archive
>Paul,
>Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
>Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with
>the runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one
>rear main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC
>about a forward slip in the 701.
>Chuck D.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Plans builder HELP!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Larry,
The two bearing flanging tool only requires a little patience and
practice on several spare pieces of aluminum to get it down correctly.
I'd recommend you work on the
technique on some scrap aluminum and try again. I've made and used this
kind of flanging tool several times, but it always took a little
practice to get it right.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Do not archive
LHusky@aol.com wrote:
> OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell.
> I am 320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I
> am at a point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The
> holes are cut, just needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool
> from Aircraft Tool Supply because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered.
> They said the company has been back ordered for some time now and the
> manufacture said it will be at least another month, so I bought this
> one. IT STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a perfectly good
> hole. It won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am wanting to
> build my center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and
> the front one can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
>
> I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these
> dye's for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't
> care if they are made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who
> can make them, or does anyone have a set they would be willing to sell
> or rent to me. I am running out of things to do on the fuse now. I
> still have wings to build after the fuse!! I could continue using the
> tool I just bought, but I really hate using it. My building buddy
> already has a lot on his plate and needs his tools right now. We were
> neck and neck in the build, but he has long passed me. I looked at
> the Sonex site, but there's is smaller and I would rather stay with
> the plans. Any help would be appreciated. I work as a police officer
> and a correctional officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for
> these specialty tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will
> take wood, metal, plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry Husky
> Lakeview, OR
> Building Fuse, but thinking about building the engine instead!!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Slips, spins, and questionnairs |
Tom-
If an article about the list I foolishly agreed to take a stab at
ever gets into SA, the editor really has his work cut out for him. It's
taken me 3 days and God knows how many responses to give my thoughts and
writing direction on the slip/spin issue.
Now I realize that I should have left out the last paragraph in the
7/1 post. I should have said SOME of the CFIs in our area are from the
AVOID dangerous situations school of thought, and others are from the
FLY your way out of dangerous situations school of thought. In a
critical situation, you'll probably default to your training like
Pavlov's dog, and having two conflicting sets of responses could kill
you.
The owner of the flight school refered to in the post below was
already booked, so he scheduled me with a newbie CFI. We were flying in
the plane I was part owner of, so hull and liability insurance weren't
an issue.
Things would have been totally different if I would have flown with
the head honcho. He owns one of the half-dozen remaining clipped wing
Monocoupes. Never saw the other CFI around the airport again.
Still 6 questionnaires short, but I'm going to start compiling the
responses and writing the draft. Hope I can pull it off.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom and Bren Henderson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER
My instructor (12K hours) put us through spin recovery on my fifth
lesson, and slips are praticed every time we work on short field
landings. Avoided? Perhaps if you're going to a flight 'school' that's
more worried about insurance premiums than teaching you to fly safely...
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
J-
I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he
said "Make
a landing however you want".
So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final
(Of
course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it".
Went into
a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross
controlled!"
Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips
and
spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2"
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should give the book back to my brother in law. He
had it
> from his flight instruction many years ago and loaned it to me
since I
> want to get my PPL. Better yet, I'll go ahead and read it and
perhaps get
> kicked out of flight school. LOL [Laughing]
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
Noel.
No where in my post did I say to use pure aluminum.
What I said is that pure aluminum is clad to 2024 to
make it more corrosion resistant. So the pure aluminum
coating is more corrosion resistant than bare 6061 or
2024. That is why most certified aircraft use 2024
alclad, they get the strength of 2024 and the
corrosion protection of the pure aluminum clad.
Mark S.
--- Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> Mark:
>
> I congratulate you on using the Alodine and zinc
> chromate. I think the
> epoxy base is a bit of overkill if you aren't going
> to try to stick cloth
> over it but as you say it will stick!!
>
> If you really want pure aluminium and I don't think
> you really do, its
> available in sheets from the folks who make
> aluminium doors etc. You will
> find pure aluminium isn't nearly as corrosion
> resistant as alumiclad 6061.
> You will also find it has the strength a little
> greater than wet toilet
> paper and rivets won't stay tight in it.
>
> Did you alodine both sides of your skins? Doing so
> protects the skins under
> the nice urethane paints and primers.
>
> Noel
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > Mark Sherman
> > Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:24 PM
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc
> Chromate, Part II
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman
> > <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Bob and Listers:
> > >
> > > I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle
> can
> > > approach for the
> > > horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and
> ailerons
> > > with acceptable results. I have
> > > two questions for everyone:
> > >
> > > 1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take
> forever
> > > by hand. I'm using a
> > > plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to
> > > remain nameless so as not to
> > > incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing
> the
> > > parts to take the shine off
> > > them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or
> something
> > > to make the job move along?
> > >
> > > 2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using
> a
> > > scotchbrite/lacquer
> > > thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff
> > > REALLY sticks !!!! I like it -
> > > but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a
> > > two-part epoxy primer?
> > >
> > >
> > > Tracy Smith
> > > Naugatuck, CT
> > > 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Tracy.
> >
> > I used the two part epoxy on the entire airplane
> > inside. Alumaprep/alodine then prime. Yes it was
> a
> > lot of work. I let the alumaprep do all the work
> of
> > dulling the surface. I mixed some 409 cleaner in
> with
> > the full strength alumaprep to do two steps in
> one. I
> > cleaned it with thinner first to get off the ink,
> then
> > let the alumaprep do its thing.
> >
> > I know a lot of people say there is no need to go
> to
> > all this work, that 6061 will outlast all of us.
> > Maybe so, but I had a 1964 C-150 that was paper
> thin
> > because of corrosion after thirty years and never
> by
> > the ocean. Yeah I know it was 2024 not 6061. But
> the
> > 2024 they use has an almost pure aluminum layer
> clad
> > on it, this is way more corrosion resistant than
> 6061.
> > Where did all that pure aluminum go?
> >
> > I figure that some new owner of my plane thirty
> years
> > from now will look inside at no corrosion and say
> WOW
> > did this guy really know how to build an airplane.
> > Worth every extra hour I put into it.
> >
> > Although I must confess that I found a place
> called
> > Pacific Coast Anodizing that did what the industry
> > calls Chem-film, (alumaprep/alodine)that did all
> of
> > both wing parts (ribs,skins,spars all little
> parts)
> > for $75.00 and the entire fuse and tail parts for
> > another $125.00 for me. I got them back
> individually
> > wrapped in paper, picked up and delivered to my
> door.
> > Not bad if you live in the central valley of
> > California.
> >
> > Keep up the good work I think it is worth it.
> >
> > Mark S.
> > 701/912S
> > Paint booth built
> > painting
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fitting Stratus/601 cowl |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
RE: "Is it best to assemble the two halves of the cowl on the work table
and somehow clamp or cleco them together before fitting one or both to
the fuselage? "
For an idea of how to hold the front of the cowlings in place using a collar
around the prop hub as you do the fitting, take a look at the JabiruUSA web
site page at the following URL:
http://www.usjabiru.com/Zenith%20FWF%20Images/Fit%20Cowls.pdf
Jeff Davidson
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: re: Flying Stuff |
Just a small note on the issue. A " little slip into the wind to kill a
crosswind drift" is called a forward slip. With a crosswind from the left a
little right rudder is used to keep the nose pointed down the runway with
enough left bank to stop the drift. A side slip is used to drop alt without
an increase in airspeed buy using say, right rudder, to expose the left side
of the aircraft to the slip stream while banking left to keep the course
over the ground strait (to the runway). More control input, faster alt loss.
It's not a little slip
into the wind to kill a crosswind drift
On 7/4/06, Brian kissinger <brainsflight@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Good inputs everyone...thanks. Paul Tipton makes some good observations from
his 701
>
> flying...thanks. I don't want to get bogged down into too much hangar flying
>
> (it's fun though). However I believe what the main concern is the more aggressive
slips
>
> to lose altitude. With the 701's design we shouldn't have to kick into a big
slip to
>
> drop altitude. If we are way too high then (as Paul T says) maybe a go-around
is the
>
> safe thing to do. When I started to do a big slip one time with Roger that's
when he made
>
> the comment mentioning that the 701 is not recommended to be slipped. It's not
a little slip
>
> into the wind to kill a crosswind drift...it's a big slip to drop altitude.
By the way, Roger
>
> owns a 1946 Luscombe too & knows how to do big slips to drop altitude...he's
a good pilot.
>
> I hope we all build & fly 'em safe.
>
> Cheers, Brian
>
> www.brainsflight.com
>
> ps Chuck D, replied to you off-line...I am of school #1 too...kill the drift....don't
crab
>
> do not archive
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I think writing to ZAC on the slip question is a great idea.
>
> I would guess the kind of slip which may not be a good idea for the
>
> 701 is the deep cross controlled condition used to dump lots of
>
> altitude without gaining airspeed. I can't imagine it is
>
> inappropriate to do the mild version of a slip commonly used to deal
>
> with mild crosswind landings.
>
> Sometimes I wish it were easy to ask Chris Heintz questions like this
>
> rather than trying to get Sebastian or one of the other guys to
>
> really understand the question.
>
> Paul
>
> XL Fuselage
>
> do not archive
>
> >Paul,
>
> >Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
>
> >Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with
>
> >the runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one
>
> >rear main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC
>
> >about a forward slip in the 701.
>
> >Chuck D.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.<http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/+%0A>
>
>
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | 601XL Parts List |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
I'm in my research phase for scratch building and am finding this list to be invaluable.
Maybe you can help with two items.
1) I've searched the archives in vain for a complete parts list of the 601XL.
Has anyone done that and shared the results?
2) I'm also trying to see how I can maximize my sheet aluminum by pre-planning
my cuts (knowing I'll have to factor in re-cuts and waste!). Has anyone visualized
the optimal layout in a program like Visio?
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plan set 6493 in hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44740#44740
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: flanging dies/ WING WALK area |
see below, apparently this didn't go out the first time
Big Gee <taffy0687@yahoo.com> wrote: List
It looks like Mony and Christopher have supplied all the info you need.
Larry- if you have a band saw with a narrow blade, I don't see you why can't:
1) set the table at 45 degrees, get a piece of plywood the correct thickness
and cut the beveled (45 degree) female and male part of the die at the same time.
2) Use sandwich construction (wood glue/ screws) on the female portion same
as on male portion as mentioned by Monty below. sanding smooth and ensure
proper radius.--------
I used the bolt & large washer method. I used 3/8" FINE thread----
The advantage of wood is the side of the die can easily be trimmed down to fit
inside the channels ( was necessary on the 701).
Don't be surprised if the flanged part is slighly distorted (slight bow) on the
wing ribs etc--- many holes close together---- I used "L"s on all my wing ribs,
same as Chris shows for ribs 1-4 ( walkway). SPEAKING OF WING WALK AREA--
I suggest you folks get with MARK TOWNSEND and get his opinion on this---------
I know I followed his advise.
Where did I get my plans for the dies? My 701 plans update was 1990, at that
time Chris included the plans for scratch builders to make their own dies. That
info was on page 7.G.3
Fritz --- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com> wrote:
attached is a file drawing for plans for flanging dies from RSW eng. for
metal ones. But they can be made from wood as well.
The female die is fairly easy to make as one piece with a router and
mating camfer bit...if you have one and also possible with a drill press I
would guess.
The male side is easier to make as three separate flat pieces then both
glued and screwed together.
3/4 hardwoods work the best followed by 3/4 plywood.
And for us that will only use them a few times. Cheap particle board
works very well too. Mine and B. J. Swaller's are 5/8 particle board left
over from carpet underlayment jobs......with scraps of thinner plywood
mixed in. B.J. made his on a drill press.....
They don't have to look pretty to make a nice flange.
Align the dies and drill a hole threw the center for a bolt and big flat
washers to squeeze the dies and form the flange. or put in a shop press
or large arbor press.....
You get the idea........
Monty Graves
701 scratch builder
>Christopher W. E. Smith
>fly1m1
>http://ch-601xl.com
__________________________________________________
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
Hi guys:
I did talk to Chris at Cloverdale, about flying the 701, mentioning
that I land it slower than most people. He agreed, and said that too
many people fly it like a Cessna.
I do not slip it because it rattles too much and just doesn't sound happy.
For safety, I plan all of my approaches so that I am high. Then when it
is obviious that I am too high, I dive to get on my desired path. When I
raise the nose, the extra speed bleeds off very rapidly, and I do a full
stall, nose high touchdown. I tried slips, and going slow to lose
altitude, but it wasn't nearly as effective, and much less margin of
safety. Power is always off before or at the threshold.
My approaches are:
Flaps up: 60 mph, power off before runway, hold it off - off- off.
Flaps down: 50 mph, power off before the runway, hold it off - off-off.
It just stops flying and flops onto the ground.
Movie of an approach with flaps is at:
http://www.sonar100.com
I do a little crab, or slip into the crosswind, but at these landing
speeds, even when I get it wrong, it doesn't seem to matter.
Fred Sanford Santa Barbara. Ca. N9701 70 hours
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: re: Flying Stuff |
I typed it backwards.... Side slip for crosswind....forward slip for alt.
Sorry...
On 7/4/06, Christopher Smith <ch601xl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just a small note on the issue. A " little slip into the wind to kill a
> crosswind drift" is called a forward slip. With a crosswind from the left a
> little right rudder is used to keep the nose pointed down the runway with
> enough left bank to stop the drift. A side slip is used to drop alt without
> an increase in airspeed buy using say, right rudder, to expose the left side
> of the aircraft to the slip stream while banking left to keep the course
> over the ground strait (to the runway). More control input, faster alt loss.
>
>
> It's not a little slip
>
>
> into the wind to kill a crosswind drift
>
>
> On 7/4/06, Brian kissinger <brainsflight@yahoo.com > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Good inputs everyone...thanks. Paul Tipton makes some good observations from
his 701
> >
> > flying...thanks. I don't want to get bogged down into too much hangar flying
> >
> > (it's fun though). However I believe what the main concern is the more aggressive
slips
> >
> > to lose altitude. With the 701's design we shouldn't have to kick into a big
slip to
> >
> > drop altitude. If we are way too high then (as Paul T says) maybe a go-around
is the
> >
> >
> > safe thing to do. When I started to do a big slip one time with Roger that's
when he made
> >
> >
> > the comment mentioning that the 701 is not recommended to be slipped. It's
not a little slip
> >
> > into the wind to kill a crosswind drift...it's a big slip to drop altitude.
By the way, Roger
> >
> > owns a 1946 Luscombe too & knows how to do big slips to drop altitude...he's
a good pilot.
> >
> > I hope we all build & fly 'em safe.
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Brian
> >
> >
> > www.brainsflight.com
> >
> > ps Chuck D, replied to you off-line...I am of school #1 too...kill the drift....don't
crab
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > Hi Chuck,
> >
> >
> > I think writing to ZAC on the slip question is a great idea.
> >
> > I would guess the kind of slip which may not be a good idea for the
> >
> > 701 is the deep cross controlled condition used to dump lots of
> >
> > altitude without gaining airspeed. I can't imagine it is
> >
> >
> > inappropriate to do the mild version of a slip commonly used to deal
> >
> > with mild crosswind landings.
> >
> > Sometimes I wish it were easy to ask Chris Heintz questions like this
> >
> > rather than trying to get Sebastian or one of the other guys to
> >
> >
> > really understand the question.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > XL Fuselage
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > >Paul,
> >
> > >Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
> >
> > >Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with
> >
> > >the runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one
> >
> >
> > >rear main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC
> >
> > >about a forward slip in the 701.
> >
> > >Chuck D.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.<http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/+%0A>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Christopher W. E. Smith
> fly1m1
> http://ch-601xl.com
>
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot CFI with SLSA in South Florida |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "paulvhhill" <paulhill@goodsportaviation.com>
Learning to fly in a 601.
Anybody know where one can find a Sport Pilot CFI with a SLSA in the South Florida
area? Spefically in the Palm Beach County area. It seems I can find CFI, but
not with a Light Sport Aircraft. It would be really nice to find a flight school
with a SLSA 601 for rent.
thanks
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44757#44757
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Fuel System Poser - solved!/ really?? :-) |
Danger joke
fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net> wrote:
>Fred:
>I didn't miss it, it just didn't re-print for some reason. That is my concern.
>the problem isn't being fixed.
> I don't want to beat this to death, but I am concerned. I can only tell you
>what I'd do:
> 1) I'd put on new vent caps built like one other lister discribed and built
>like Tony Bingelis shows in his book.
> 2) I would install a fuel control valve like Chris H. calls for in the 601XL---
>that is a 3 way position valve: left/ off/ right. THE PILOT SHOULD BE
>CONTROL THE FUEL FLOW. Allowing both tanks to gravity feed at the same time
>adds to your problem.
> Honestly, I would not fly in your airplane with you under these known conditions.
> Best of luck
>Fritz
Fritz:
You wouldn't fly with me in my plane? It is a CH701, built just as designed by
Chris Heintz,
and is one of the 600 or so flying all around the world built to his specs. We
made no changes.
Build yours like you want - we can each do that right?
I feel that if I keep the bubbles out of the line, the tanks will feed evenly.
Enough on this topic....Fred.
For Jerry and Bob, yes, the demo 701 does have a header tank.
do not archive
Hello Fred,
The problem why Fritz is not flying with you is because you CHANGED the kit system:
You are using clear hoses, I made my fuel system as the plans, WITH the black
hose that comes with the kit. So Fritz will be perfectly safe flying witrh me
around Chapala Lake,, he will not see any bubbles in the gasoline hoses.
:-) :-) :-) ;-)
Just a Joke. Sorry, couldnt resist.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying happy without dangerous bubbles in Chapala, Mexico.
Do not archive of course.
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Aileron dimension on 601HD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <steerr@bellsouth.net>
I have a question for those of you who built their 601HDs according to the
hand drawn plans. I had to adjust the length of my ailerons, so removed the
inboard end rib and horn. When I was reassembling the aileron, and went to
install the reinforcing L angle that I had left off originally, I noticed
things didn't seem to fit as shown on the drawings. Then I noticed that the
original drawings had dimensions of 40mm from the front face of the aileron
to the center of the hole in the horn, and 15mm from the bottom of the
aileron to the center of the hole, as shown on 6-V-10. The 4th edition of
the CAD drawings, though, show dimensions of 25mm and 25mm. Does anybody
recall which dimension they used?
Thanks for your help.
Bill
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "paulvhhill" <paulhill@goodsportaviation.com>
I think this is a topic that can go on for days, but I am going to give a shot.
I am the owner of a CH601XL with an 0-200a. I made the decision because this
engine has been around for about 50 years. Any A&P would feel comfortable working
on it. If on cross county I need some service I think it would be tuff getting
support for the Rotax 912 or the Jabiru.
That said I did pay the price for payload and lost some with the 0-200a. I have
flown the Tecnam Echo with the 912 a lot and never once was able to check the
oil. Every time I went up I had to refil with distilled water. This is a great
performing engine, but I perfer the simplicity of the hor. opposed 4 of the
0-200 or the Jabiru. I feel the Jabiru is a great aircraft engine and would use
it on my next project. By then there should be plenty of places to get service.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44761#44761
Message 23
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| Subject: | Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part III |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
I'd like to share with you answers to questions I had about using Alumiprep, Alodine,
and Zinc Chromate. Below is a response by Dr. Sheldon Dean, President of
Dean Corrosion Technology, Inc. I had asked him about reusing Alumiprep and
whether scotchbriting without an acid etch would work. Also if alodine could be
skipped and just put on zinc chromate.
...The etch solution is basically an acid etch that is intended to remove a very
thin layer of aluminum together with the oxide on the surface. The reason to
do that is to allow any particles, dirt or grease that may be on the surface
to be undercut and dispersed by the detergents in the etch. If your Scotch Brite
abraded surface were really clean and free of particles then maybe it would
not be necessary to use the etch cleaner, but it is sort of an insurance policy
against the occasional lapse in obtaining a really clean starting surface.
Regarding reuse of the etch solution, you can do that up to the point where
the solution begins to lose potency. If the solution becomes dark in color,
or does not brighten the aluminum after immersion it is spent and should be discarded.
The Alodine treatment produces a conversion coating on the aluminum that is much
thicker than the normal air formed oxide. It does provide some corrosion protection
because of its greater thickness, and it also does not hydrate when exposed
to high humidity. One mechanism of paint failure involves the conversion
of aluminum oxide to aluminum hydroxide from high moisture content environments.
The aluminum hydroxide is much more voluminous than the oxide and that causes
the paint to blister and spall off. Usually the conversion of oxide to
hydroxide requires something like chloride to be present so if you had a really
well washed surface (rinsed with chloride free deionized water) maybe the paint
adhesion to the aluminum surface would be adequate without Alodine. Again,
it is like an insurance policy to cover less than perfect operations.
The zinc chromate paint is inhibited so corrosion is not a major issue. However,
it is vital to have the best paint adhesion you can obtain because corrosion
is only one mechanism for loss of paint adhesion. Temperature swings and sun
exposure are equally important. The coefficient of thermal expansion of paint
is at least 10 times that of aluminum metal so every time the surface cycles
from very cold to very hot the paint is being squeezed and stretched probably
beyond its yield point. Sun exposure causes the organic vehicle in the paint
to cross link and/or oxidize and that makes it chalk and become brittle. In
most cases the corrosion of the aluminum is not a major problem so the use of
paint is for cosmetic reasons. Atmospheric corrosion of aluminum alloys usually
results in a mild surface pitting of the aluminum surface that gives it a dull
grey appearance. There is little loss of strength that accompanies the corrosion.
The exception to this observation is in cases where alloys like 2024
T6 or 7075 T6 heat treated to obtain maximum strength are used. These alloys
are susceptible to exfoliation and stress corrosion cracking in marine atmospheres
and that can cause major problems. In that case most folks believe that
paint can help. However, there are tempers of these alloys that will resist
these corrosion problems, and the use of alclad products also prevents corrosion
damage.
Regarding the question of whether you can skip the etch and Alodine treatments
the answer is that it depends on what you are trying to achieve. The Scotch Brite
treatment will improve paint adhesion, and in many cases that would be enough.
However, It is impossible for me to anticipate the degree of severity of
the environments that your product may encounter in its use so it would be only
a guess if I told you either that you needed them or not. The other key
issue is how long do you expect these surfaces to perform before you would need
to maintain them? The etch and Alodine treatments should give you several years
of good performance before spalling of the paint occurred...
Think I'll continue to Scotchbrite, etch, alodine, and zinc chromate the interior.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44772#44772
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | 601XL Parts List |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "wscribb" <wscribb@centurytel.net>
Larry,
Check out ch601.org under builder resources, you'll find the hardware list
and several different material layouts.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lwinger
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 7:55 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
I'm in my research phase for scratch building and am finding this list to be
invaluable. Maybe you can help with two items.
1) I've searched the archives in vain for a complete parts list of the
601XL. Has anyone done that and shared the results?
2) I'm also trying to see how I can maximize my sheet aluminum by
pre-planning my cuts (knowing I'll have to factor in re-cuts and waste!).
Has anyone visualized the optimal layout in a program like Visio?
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plan set 6493 in hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44740#44740
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fitting Stratus/601 cowl |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Thanks Jeff:
What a professional set of instructions! I wish Zenith and Stratus would
have done half so well. The fixture for the cowl front doesn't apply to the
Zenith-furnished cowl, but the other material is useful. Thanks for
bringing it to my attention.
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 7:45 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff "
<jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>
> RE: "Is it best to assemble the two halves of the cowl on the work table
> and somehow clamp or cleco them together before fitting one or both to
> the fuselage? "
>
> For an idea of how to hold the front of the cowlings in place using a
collar
> around the prop hub as you do the fitting, take a look at the JabiruUSA
web
> site page at the following URL:
> http://www.usjabiru.com/Zenith%20FWF%20Images/Fit%20Cowls.pdf
>
>
> Jeff Davidson
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Digest: 60 Msgs - 07/03/06 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Raymond D. Worley" <rdworley@zebra.net>
Please remove me from your e-mail list
Raymond D. Worley
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zenith-List
Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 1:59 AM
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-07-03.ht
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t
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 07/03/06: 60
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:19 AM - Fw: Rear Spar mistake (ABGS)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: Gauges (Frank Roskind)
3. 07:08 AM - Flying stuff (Brian kissinger)
4. 07:10 AM - 701 demo update (Brian kissinger)
5. 07:33 AM - Re: 22000 MF Capacitor (Noel Loveys)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: Ratchet Tiedowns ()
7. 08:38 AM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls ()
8. 08:45 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Chuck Deiterich)
9. 09:04 AM - Great tool - Cheap Pirce (Robert Schoenberger)
10. 09:04 AM - Arlington (Dan Lykowski)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER (Tom and
Bren Henderson)
13. 09:55 AM - Fw: Fuel pump puzzle (Michel Therrien)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: XL Gear Support (Tom and Bren Henderson)
15. 10:32 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Chuck Deiterich)
16. 10:43 AM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (Tom
and Bren Henderson)
17. 11:07 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 11:29 AM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (Dave
and Jan Clay)
19. 11:29 AM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (Ron
Butterfield)
20. 12:07 PM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (Paul
Mulwitz)
21. 12:07 PM - Re: Fuel pump puzzle (Bryan Martin)
22. 12:09 PM - Re: Flying stuff (Dave)
23. 12:14 PM - Re: Arlington (Dave Ruddiman)
24. 12:17 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (Randy
Bryant)
25. 12:34 PM - Re: Flying stuff (ron dewees)
26. 12:37 PM - Re: Slips (Paul Tipton)
27. 12:47 PM - Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (messydeer)
28. 01:16 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question)
(Christopher Smith)
29. 01:30 PM - Re: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder (Ron Lee)
30. 01:38 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Tom and Bren
Henderson)
31. 01:45 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (N5SL)
32. 01:54 PM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls
(NYTerminat@aol.com)
33. 02:06 PM - Re: Flying stuff (NYTerminat@aol.com)
34. 02:13 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
(NYTerminat@aol.com)
35. 02:19 PM - Re: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder
(NYTerminat@aol.com)
36. 02:41 PM - Re: Fuel pump puzzle (Michel Therrien)
37. 02:49 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
(Crvsecretary@aol.com)
38. 03:03 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (Wade
Jones)
39. 03:14 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Tom and Bren
Henderson)
40. 03:43 PM - RE : Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Carlos Sa)
41. 03:54 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Randy Bryant)
42. 03:54 PM - Engine decisions getting easier (LarryMcFarland)
43. 03:54 PM - Fitting Stratus/601 cowl (George Swinford)
44. 04:21 PM - Plans builder HELP!!! (LHusky@aol.com)
45. 04:57 PM - Re: Engine decisions getting easier (Robin Bellach)
46. 05:31 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Noel Loveys)
47. 05:55 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Mark Sherman)
48. 06:52 PM - flanging dies (Big Gee)
49. 07:21 PM - Re: Plans builder HELP!!! (MacDonald Doug)
50. 07:23 PM - Re: flanging dies (Randy Bryant)
51. 07:28 PM - Re: Fitting Stratus/601 cowl (LarryMcFarland)
52. 07:38 PM - Re: flanging dies (LHusky@aol.com)
53. 07:39 PM - Re: Plans builder HELP!!! (LHusky@aol.com)
54. 07:53 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (messydeer)
55. 08:53 PM - Re: Flying stuff (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
56. 08:56 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
(NYTerminat@aol.com)
57. 09:14 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (messydeer)
58. 10:03 PM - Re: Fuel pump puzzle (Bryan Martin)
59. 10:27 PM - Bending wing rear channels for scratch builders (Dave
and Jan Clay)
60. 11:23 PM - Re: Fuel Sender...again... (Gary Gower)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:19:32 AM PST US
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:21 PM
Allan
Plan page 6-W-7
I have drilled the hole in the rear spar for the Aileron Control Rod on
the top of the spar not on the bottom as shown
-------------------------------
You are not the first, Chris has approved the fix as shown in the
attached pdf file.
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 06:03:46 AM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind"
<frankroskind@hotmail.com>
That works after you buy the stuff, but what about before. For example,
what is the lightest weight transponder/ encoder installation, and how does
it compare to competitors? I assume there are tradeoffs between weght
savigs and costs, but not in all cases. Further, I would guess that some
radios and instruments need less stuff outside the case than others, so it
isn't jsut a matter of comparing raw instrument or radio weight. If I am
shopping different SLSAs I need to be able to guess the best aircraft for he
mission, and figure out what equipment is feasible. If radios
andinstruments weigh over 40 pounds, that can be a big deal, and might lead
to efforts to save weight. Maybe a smaller altimeter is in order. maybe a
smaller tach. Do I really need to measure EGT and CHT, and if so how many
probes? Do I really need a Nav/Com, or shoud I go with just a Com, and
carry a GPS? I thnk weight of radios and isntruments could be a big planning
issue, and I wonder where potential data is.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
The manufacturers documentation ...See there are reasons not to throw out
all that junk;^}
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Frank Roskind
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:41 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gauges
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind"
> <frankroskind@hotmail.com>
>
> This brings to mind a question I have had for quite a while.
> Is there a
> source for installed weights of various instruments and radios?
>
>
>
> I Agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I assembled my panel
> and"complete" it weighed
> in at 43 lbs..
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> -- "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija"
> <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
>
> I can't wait, that I get my plane ready to fly :)
>
> It was surprising, how much this instrument panel weights.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43687#43687
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/news_dsc03791_673.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==================================
>
> ==================================
>
> ==================================
> ==================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 07:08:42 AM PST US
Thanks everyone for their inputs on flying, slips, etc. Like building our
planes
and living our lives I hope we all do it as safe as possible but have fun.
Paul I agree with your comments and in my Luscombe I fly close patterns &
sometimes
have almost full rudder in a slip depending on the situation. Slips are
fun and look cool! But a taildragger with no flaps is much different from a
701. As far as the 701 goes I can only go from what Roger at the factory
told
me and that was, "it's not recommended to slip the 701 by the designer."
And
I believe he said it's because of the increased side loads it puts on the
airframe.
Can we slip a 701...sure...and in an emergency situation where I had one
shot at a landing strip I would. I only put this information out on the
list
as that....information. It's your airplane...slip it or don't slip
it....your
decision.
As another CFI mentioned on the list...don't get too slow in a slip or you
risk
entering a stall or spin at a low altitude....bad situation. Practice at
altitude
first.
Roger's technique is what I would consider an advanced technique with
having
a low power setting to get the descent rate you want (almost a stall) then
adding
power close to the ground. Look at "Stick and Rudder" chapter 14 for an
explanation
of the principles of why this works.
Make sure you are comfortable with basic flying maneuvers, takeoffs,
landings,
etc before you try what I mention above. Many of us have not flown in years
and need to focus on the basics. Set personal minimums for yourself,
weather,
etc and stick to them. Have fun and be safe.
Cheers,
Brian
www.brainsflight.com
do not archive
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:10:28 AM PST US
I was at the factory in Mexico, MO on Friday to pick up some parts. They
were
hanging a 912S Rotax (100 hp) on the 701 demo bird to get it ready for
Oshkosh.
They also removed the header fuel tank to get it more in line with the
configuration
they are selling now.
Cheers,
Brian
www.brainsflight.com
---------------------------------
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 07:33:34 AM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Wiring a nice heavy lytic cap like that in reverse polarity will eventually
result in a big bang. The higher the voltage and current fed into the cap
in reverse polarity, the faster you will hear the bang.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Paul Mulwitz
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:54 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 22000 MF Capacitor
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Tommy,
>
> A capacitor that large is usually polarized. That means you need to
> attach the "Plus" contact of the capacitor to the "Plus" side of your
> electrical hookup.
>
> I can't tell from your description which contact is the
> "Plus". Perhaps if you sent me a picture I could tell. There are
> many different ways of marking those parts. One popular way is to
> have a line of dashes or "Minus signs" printed on the plastic sleeve
> around the barrel of the part.
>
> It may be that the painted terminal is the plus side, but I can't be
> sure. I would have more confidence if it were red rather than black.
>
> If you can send me a picture I will be glad to look at it. I need to
> see both the top and side views including perhaps all sides.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
>
> At 02:14 PM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker"
> <twalker@cableone.net>
> >
> >Gents,
> >
> >I'm wiring my Rotax 912 and I have the above capacitor. I
> can't understand
> >the markings on the two terminals. one of the terminals has
> a dab of black
> >paint on it and the other is clear. Can someone tell me
> what the polarity
> >of these two terminals is/are?
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >Tommy Walker in Alabama
> >
> >Do Not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Paul Mulwitz
> 32013 NE Dial Road
> Camas, WA 98607
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 08:19:31 AM PST US
Ratchet TiedownsDave, virtually any kind of rig that will tighten
incrementally, and will not scratch the metal, will do. The real key is
to insert a (padded) 2x4 or equivalent so that you lay the aluminum down
evenly along the span. For an experiment, you can tighten down at one
end (very gently) and watch how everything suddenly goes crooked. For
the wing I used 2 eight-footers under either 4 or 5 straps, I forget
which. It's not as difficult as the book implies.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
It's canopy time
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave VanLanen<mailto:davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Ratchet Tiedowns
I need some advice on ratchet tiedowns for the stabilizer skin and
wing skins on the XL. For the stabilizer skin, the Assembly Guide
recommends five 12' endless ratchet tiedowns (#11699) from Highland.
For the wings, the Assembly Guide recommends McMaster Carr 12' 1-piece
ratchet straps (#8842T17), and does not recommend the number needed.
Is there any reason I can't use the same straps for both the
stabilizer and wings? How many will I need for the wings? Can I use
the two-piece style, since I can't seem to find the one-piece style
locally in the correct length?
Any help would be appreciated.
Dave Van Lanen
XL - stabilizer
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:38:10 AM PST US
John, I found half-inch nylon to be hideously expensive, and teflon in
that thickness pretty rare, but there are alternatives. At your local
Ace Hardware, try the Joyce Chen cutting board in their housewares
section. I got a 9x12 polyethylene cutting board, half-inch thick, for
under $10. It cuts very nice on a bandsaw, and is as slick as nylon.
Makes good cable fairleads, too, if you don't mind cutting it down to a
thinner profile.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hines<mailto:John.Hines@craftontull.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls
Guy,
I'm beginning to scratch build my fuselage and have a few questions.
I'm not a welder (at least not a good one) so I need to purchase some
parts already made. The rudder pedals come with the fuselage kit and
not the controls kit. How much does ZAC charge for the rudder pedals?
Also, where do I get the nylon to make the bearing? I checked aircraft
spruce and didn't see any. I guess if I buy the pedals from ZAC it
comes with the nylon but there are other areas that call for nylon.
Do most scratch builders purchase controls or fabricate them? On the
homebuilt help DVD about scratch building they mention a hardware kit
but of course don't mention a price. I don't see it anywhere on ZAC's
website. Sorry for rambling on. I've been staring at plans all night
and I'm starting to see double. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
www.johnsplane.com<http://www.johnsplane.com/>
Do not archive
John R. Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines@craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com<http://www.craftontull.com/>
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 =B7Rogers, AR 72756
<http://www.craftontull.com/>
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and
understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful
solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are
not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
information is strictly prohibited.
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 08:45:22 AM PST US
For crosswind landings, do you always land crab into the wind. Slipping
with a wing low into the cross wind is easier than decrabbing just
before touchdown as well as the forward view is better.
Also, Sebastion Heintz has told me the 701 slips very well to lose
altitude without flaps.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian kissinger
To: Matronics Post
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Thanks everyone for their inputs on flying, slips, etc. Like building
our planes and living our lives I hope we all do it as safe as possible
but have fun.
Paul I agree with your comments and in my Luscombe I fly close
patterns & sometimes have almost full rudder in a slip depending on the
situation. Slips are fun and look cool! But a taildragger with no
flaps is much different from a 701. As far as the 701 goes I can only
go from what Roger at the factory told me and that was, "it's not
recommended to slip the 701 by the designer." And I believe he said
it's because of the increased side loads it puts on the airframe. Can we
slip a 701...sure...and in an emergency situation where I had one shot
at a landing strip I would. I only put this information out on the list
as that....information. It's your airplane...slip it or don't slip
it....your decision.
As another CFI mentioned on the list...don't get too slow in a slip or
you risk entering a stall or spin at a low altitude....bad situation.
Practice at altitude first.
Roger's technique is what I would consider an advanced technique with
having a low power setting to get the descent rate you want (almost a
stall) then adding power close to the ground. Look at "Stick and
Rudder" chapter 14 for an explanation of the principles of why this
works.
Make sure you are comfortable with basic flying maneuvers, takeoffs,
landings, etc before you try what I mention above. Many of us have not
flown in years and need to focus on the basics. Set personal minimums
for yourself, weather, etc and stick to them. Have fun and be safe.
Cheers,
Brian
www.brainsflight.com
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 09:04:23 AM PST US
List . . . While at Harbor Freight to get something else, I impulse
bought a "Magnet / Mirror Pickup Tool" for $7 plus change. It has a
handle from which a rod telescopes 27" out. There is an attaching
sleeve like an air hose connection onto which you can mount one of three
mirrors, a magnifying glass, or one of 2 magnets (all supplied).
Included in the handle is a light which goes out parallel to the rod and
reflects off the mirror onto the work being inspected. They even
include 2 batteries. I'm doing the fus right now and there are many
instances when I need to look on the backside of the vertical L's to
check the rivet alignment. I wish I had this tool when I was building
the wings. Should be good also for looking inside fuel tanks. Robert
Schoenberger 701
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 09:04:23 AM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737@yahoo.com>
Was there ever a consensus on when/where for
Arlington?
Dan Lykowski
CH601XL
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 09:24:15 AM PST US
Hi Chuck,
I am not sure whether your question was for me, but I will answer it anyway.
My default method of handling crosswind landings is to use the slip
method. I keep the runway centerline pointing toward my airplane
with ailerons and keep the nose pointing down the runway with rudder.
I do this with power off in most cases. The two exceptions to the
power off approach are: When operating at large airports where it is
important to stay fast in the traffic pattern (this can include
instrument approaches and straight in approaches) so I don't cause
problems for the heavy planes landing behind me; and when the
crosswind is too high for this approach to work.
I don't really like the crab approach, but that is probably just a
matter of habit. The crab approach works just fine and I can perform
it if I choose to do so. I think it works because the wind is
usually much lower at the ground than when clear of any ground
effects. I don't fly planes with huge wing spans and probably never
will, so that issue is moot for me.
For some reason I am not particularly surprised Sebastian Heintz
would say something completely different from what Roger said. I
don't have a 701, so it is not a big issue for me. I would probably
pay more attention to Roger since my experience with him is much more
positive than my experience with Sebastian which has been universally
negative. In the 701 slip case, I would certainly follow the advice
of those listers who suggested practicing the maneuver at altitude
before using it for landing.
Happy landings,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
>For crosswind landings, do you always land crab into the
>wind. Slipping with a wing low into the cross wind is easier than
>decrabbing just before touchdown as well as the forward view is better.
>
>Also, Sebastion Heintz has told me the 701 slips very well to lose
>altitude without flaps.
>
>Chuck D.
>N701TX
-
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 09:44:29 AM PST US
My instructor (12K hours) put us through spin recovery on my fifth
lesson,
and slips are praticed every time we work on short field landings. Avoided?
Perhaps if you're going to a flight 'school' that's more worried about
insurance
premiums than teaching you to fly safely...
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"Bill
Naumuk"
J-
I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he said "Make
a landing however you want".
So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final (Of
course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it". Went into
a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross controlled!"
Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2"
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should give the book back to my brother in law. He had it
> from his flight instruction many years ago and loaned it to me since I
> want to get my PPL. Better yet, I'll go ahead and read it and perhaps get
> kicked out of flight school. LOL [Laughing]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44156#44156
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 09:55:49 AM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Test test test... no response yet...
Anybody here using Facet pumps?
>
> Good morning!
>
> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
> measured
> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
>
> I have one pump at each wing tank (Fred, I'm not
> sucking fuel :-) I also have a third pump at the
> firewall.
>
> Performance is the same with both the left and right
> pumps. I feel the pressure is a tad higher when
> using
> the firewall pump.
>
> I did a test on the ground. Fuel flow is exactly
> the
> same from the 3 pumps and is same as new pumps (25
> gal/hr). Fuel pressure on the ground is normal (5
> psi
> per pump approx).
>
> Anybody would know why I don't get the usual 3-5 psi
> in flight? (now it is more like 1 to 3)
>
> Yesterday, as a workaround, I used the firewall pump
> in conjunction with the wing pumps (firewall pump is
> in series) and I got 4-6 psi.
>
> Michel
> PS: the pumps I use are the Facet 40108 pumps. The
> wing pumps have approx 200 hours of use each.
> Firewall pump is much less solicitated.
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 10:20:28 AM PST US
Amen to that. This re-inforces the rule, "Read ahead, WAY ahead." Read
your
ENTIRE assembly guide AND all your prints before doing any work, and you'll
save yourself a huge headache in the future. I lucked out in that I first
assembled
my 601XL virtually in 3D CAD. Anything that didn't fit so well, or
protruded
through another part un-naturally, could be trimmed or adjusted prior
laser cutting.
One note though, some of the parts should not be trimmed prior to
assembly,
as each aircraft is going to be unique. I may need to trim 2mm, where you
may need only 1mm or less in certain places.
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: Another point: It really irritates me that now I
am told
that I must trim the end of the gear channel 2 or 3 mm to clear the weld on
the gear support bracket. It would be a major problem, at this point, to
take
the gear channel out of the assembly to do this trimming.
If you can still hold the gear channel in your hand, I would suggest that
you
do this trimming before the channel is "buried" in the fuselage!
Jay in Dallas
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 10:32:46 AM PST US
Paul,
Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with the
runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one rear
main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC about a
forward slip in the 701.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Hi Chuck,
I am not sure whether your question was for me, but I will answer it
anyway.
My default method of handling crosswind landings is to use the slip
method. I keep the runway centerline pointing toward my airplane with
ailerons and keep the nose pointing down the runway with rudder.
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 10:43:38 AM PST US
McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) is a good source for Nylon 6/6, as well as
aluminum
extrusion and other materials for your XL. They're not as cheap as some
of the others, but everything is in one place and almost always stock. The
Nylon
mentioned below is part #8674K35 and sells for $14.51 for 24 inches of the
stuff.
paulrod36@msn.com wrote: @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin:
1.0in
1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt;
FONT-FAMILY:
"Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in
0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
MARGIN:
0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue;
TEXT-DECORATION:
underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
} A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline }
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{ COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.EmailStyle17
{ COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-compose }
DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } John, I found half-inch nylon to be
hideously
expensive, and teflon in that thickness pretty rare, but there are
alternatives.
At your local Ace Hardware, try the Joyce Chen cutting board in their
housewares section. I got a 9x12 polyethylene
cutting board, half-inch thick, for under $10. It cuts very nice on a
bandsaw,
and is as slick as nylon. Makes good cable fairleads, too, if you don't
mind
cutting it down to a thinner profile.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hines
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls
Guy,
Im beginning to scratch build my fuselage and have a few questions.
Im not
a welder (at least not a good one) so I need to purchase some parts
already
made. The rudder pedals come with the fuselage kit and not the controls
kit. How much does ZAC charge for the rudder pedals? Also, where do I
get
the nylon to make the bearing? I checked aircraft spruce and didnt see
any. I guess if I buy the pedals from ZAC it comes with the nylon but
there
are other areas that call for nylon.
Do most scratch builders purchase controls or fabricate them? On the
homebuilt
help DVD about scratch building they mention a hardware kit but of course
dont mention a price. I dont see it anywhere on ZACs website. Sorry
for rambling on. Ive been staring at plans all night and Im starting to
see double. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
www.johnsplane.com
Do not archive
John R.
Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines@craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com 901 N.
47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and
understand the needs of our clients and provide them with
successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate,
distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately
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that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance
on
the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 11:07:59 AM PST US
Hi Chuck,
I think writing to ZAC on the slip question is a great idea.
I would guess the kind of slip which may not be a good idea for the
701 is the deep cross controlled condition used to dump lots of
altitude without gaining airspeed. I can't imagine it is
inappropriate to do the mild version of a slip commonly used to deal
with mild crosswind landings.
Sometimes I wish it were easy to ask Chris Heintz questions like this
rather than trying to get Sebastian or one of the other guys to
really understand the question.
Paul
XL Fuselage
do not archive
>Paul,
>Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
>Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with
>the runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one
>rear main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC
>about a forward slip in the 701.
>Chuck D.
-
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 11:29:06 AM PST US
I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route. If
the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's OK...then
its OK with me.
If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
photos) showing how I did this task.
Dave
Scratch building wings
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 11:29:06 AM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield <rbutterfield@mebtel.net>
Tom and Bren Henderson wrote:
> McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) is a good source for Nylon 6/6, as well
as aluminum
extrusion and other materials for your XL. They're not as cheap as some
of the others, but everything is in one place and almost always stock. The
Nylon mentioned below is part #8674K35 and sells for $14.51 for 24 inches of
the stuff.
They also have UHMW Polyethylene, which is significantly more slippery
than Nylon, about as strong, and much cheaper. For example, part number
9721K31 is 1/2 x 2 x 12 pieces for $3.47. It also is available in a wide
variety of sizes.
If you search for just the material name, they have a very nice
'drill-down' feature which allows you to specify exactly the
specifications you need.
I've used them for years for hardware needs at work and their customer
service has been second to none.
--
Regards,
RonB
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 12:07:26 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>They also have UHMW Polyethylene, which is significantly more
>slippery than Nylon, about as strong, and much cheaper. For example,
>part number 9721K31 is 1/2 x 2 x 12 pieces for $3.47. It also is
>available in a wide variety of sizes.
That is all true, but Nylon has a very high melting point compared to
other plastics. I would use the Nylon or ask ZAC for approval to use
a cheaper material. While Nylon is an expensive plastic, there is a
reason why it is used for aircraft purposes.
Paul
XL Fuselage
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 12:07:48 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I am but I haven't seen any similar problem with my plane. It sounds
like a fuel tank venting issue. That's the only thing I can think of
offhand that would show these symptoms.
On Jul 3, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> Test test test... no response yet...
>
> Anybody here using Facet pumps?
>
>
>>
>> Good morning!
>>
>> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
>> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
>> measured
>> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
>>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
Time: 12:09:28 PM PST US
I have had little luck with the "kick it straight" method and also slip
and if required land on the upwind wheel. If one were to be a little hot
and kicked it straight and then found the aircraft floating a little in
ground effect with the "kick it straight" method I expect one would soon
find the runway sliding off to one side. AMHIK.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Deiterich
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Paul,
Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with the
runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one rear
main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC about a
forward slip in the 701.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Hi Chuck,
I am not sure whether your question was for me, but I will answer it
anyway.
My default method of handling crosswind landings is to use the slip
method. I keep the runway centerline pointing toward my airplane with
ailerons and keep the nose pointing down the runway with rudder.
________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
Time: 12:14:11 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
<pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Someone said Thursday afternoon. I'll be there. I guess if we check in at
the Zenith display maybe we can all hook up there.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:04 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Lykowski
> <engineerguy3737@yahoo.com>
>
> Was there ever a consensus on when/where for
> Arlington?
>
> Dan Lykowski
> CH601XL
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
Time: 12:17:27 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant"
<randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
If you'd like me to post the step by step on my site, send them to me and
I'll put em' up...
Thanks,
Randy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:26 PM
>I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route.
> If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
> thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's
> OK...then
> its OK with me.
>
> If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
> photos) showing how I did this task.
>
> Dave
> Scratch building wings
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
Time: 12:34:53 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
I have been following the slip/crab/flaps/no flaps subject with a lot of
interest. I fly a 601HDS taildragger out of a short turf strip and
it's a no brainer to slip to lose altitude- not because I'm showing off,
but because of no flaps and high obstacles at each end. The caveat
every poster mentions with whatever his/her best method of losing
altitude is to avoid a "coffin corner" edge-of-the-envelope stall and
possible spin entry.
The Lift Reserve Indicator that Scott Laughlin has helped provide
many of us with has sure taken the guesswork out of this question for
me. I put it right on the top of my panel and it will tell me what the
lift is doing at any speed or altitude or power setting. I strongly
reccomend it if you are going to do slips and crabs or just want to nail
your landing speeds in any condition. It will even convince a newbie
CFI that you have lift and control of the plane.
Ron N601TD 140 hours
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I think writing to ZAC on the slip question is a great idea.
>
> I would guess the kind of slip which may not be a good idea for the
> 701 is the deep cross controlled condition used to dump lots of
> altitude without gaining airspeed. I can't imagine it is
> inappropriate to do the mild version of a slip commonly used to deal
> with mild crosswind landings.
-----------snip-------
>
>
> Paul
> XL Fuselage
> do not archive
>
________________________________ Message 26
____________________________________
Time: 12:37:44 PM PST US
I hate to get into this, because there are many more people out there
with much more experience than I have. From my limited (100 hours)
experience. Slips work very well in the 701. I have not needed slips
and full flaps or any flaps for that matter. If you are that high,
go around. The flaps are very effective, but your closing speed to the
ground will make you pucker. Your flare and/or the application of power
becomes critical. The reducing power works well too, if you remember to
keep your speed up. The prop acts as a big air brake and (the key
statement) you have no inertia. The best statement I have read about
the 701, is if you pull power on landing, be prepared to land and park
at the same time. The lack of inertia and powerful engine also means
the throttle gets almost instant results. The good part is you get
instant results... the bad part is you get instant results. Over
control can be a problem. It is very easy to fly the approach speed
with a constant throttle to the runway. Slips work very well to alter
your glide slope and you never have to bother your throttle or speed.
It does not fly like a Cessna, Piper, Beech or anything else I have ever
flown. It does not float. The caveat with all this info is I fly a 701
with the 912 ULS. It is a great combination. I cannot attest to any
other combination. I differ to anyone with more experience. I learn
something different every time I go up. Every landing is different.
There are an infinite amount of combinations you can try. Some will
work better than others with this plane. All I can say to the people
that are not flying yet... it is worth it.
321PT
________________________________ Message 27
____________________________________
Time: 12:47:52 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a
vinyl
shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges. Things
went
pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water as
suggested
in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that stuck out
above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the
results.
Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little color
change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath,
making
the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5 minutes for
the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took
longer
to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled from my
first
session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the solution, it
seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness.
I did
prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite; rinse
w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo
cans). Alodine
is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the patchiness
of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering just acid
etching
and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to you zinc
chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44570#44570
________________________________ Message 28
____________________________________
Time: 01:16:50 PM PST US
You know I will as well Dave...Please send.
On 7/3/06, Dave and Jan Clay <dclaytx2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route.
> If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
> thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's
> OK...then
> its OK with me.
>
> If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
> photos) showing how I did this task.
>
> Dave
> Scratch building wings
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
________________________________ Message 29
____________________________________
Time: 01:30:13 PM PST US
I never land my 701 with any power on final. Most of the time I use no
power from the downwind threshold. Occasionally I will have to add a
touch of power to make the runway, but only if I am to far from the
runway on downwind, or there is a tailwind on downwind that I have
miscalculated. Yes, it drops fast and the window to flare is small but
it is not hard to master.
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Schoenberger
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder
In very light planes such as the 701, isn't the power on to landing
due to the lack of inertia of these planes? Robert Schoenberger 701 do
not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder
Hi Brian,
Thank you for your post on the crosswind landing issue. Your
comprehensive coverage of this topic leads me to ask you for further
information and opinion.
First is the issue of performing a forward slip landing with flaps
(or in the case of the 701 with slats). I think I have heard several
instructors suggest that either flaps or a slip is appropriate for
losing extra altitude on final approach but not both. I don't know why
both would be inappropriate, but I have never done the slip with flaps
because of that comment The kind of slip I am talking about in this
case is not the light one to compensate for a crosswind but the deep one
used to dump altitude.
The other issue is one that has bothered me ever since contemplating
flying again after some 15 years on the ground. It seems popular today
for pilots to land light planes with power all the way to touchdown. I
know this is common practice with multiengine planes, but in the old
days I was taught to make the final approach with power off (unless
there was a good reason to do otherwise like trying to stay ahead of
heavy traffic at high use airports). I think the power off approach
works just fine in most cases and also gives the pilot plenty of
practice for dead stick landings in case of engine failure. I don't
know of any advantage of using power on all approaches other than it
makes them a little easier to perform. Sadly, there seem to be too many
owners of light aircraft who come to a bad end when they fail to make a
good approach after an engine failure and hit the only tree around or
fail to clear the final hurdle.
In Roger's case, I can't help but wonder what will happen if his
"Behind the curve" dumping of altitude is punctuated by a failure of the
engine to slow the descent as you described. I have heard of doing that
sort of approach with power on, but never with power off. The power on
version is somewhat like a helicopter landing and allows for crazy
pilots to make incredibly short ground rolls, but is not for the
uninitiated or weak of heart.
I would love to hear you comments on the above issues.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
I not a very good builder and I am not much better as a pilot.
However I do have a CFI rating, thousands of flying hours, flown several
different taildraggers, currently own/fly a Luscombe, taught some people
how to fly and given several tailwheel endorsements. I haven't killed
myself, wrecked, or groundlooped any airplanes....yet. I
wholeheartedly agree with the endorsement of Stick & Rudder. It's an
essential book for every pilot. The first time I read part 1 "Wings"
and Chapter 1 "How a Wing is Flown" it cleared up so much confusion in
my previous 16 years of flying (including Air Force training). Get it,
read it, re-read it.
As far as crosswind landings go...I've seen 2 main schools of
thought. What I like is what I typically teach in a taildragger....wing
low into the wind to stop cross track....opposite rudder as needed to
keep the nose pointed straight down the runway. Other pilots like to
maintain a crab into the wind and then take it out when they are close
to the ground. There can be a heated debate on both sides of this topic.
As far as the 701 goes, I flew with Roger at the factory again a
few weeks ago and he said the plane is recommended not to be slipped (by
Chris Heintz). He demonstrated to me in a power off/nose high
configuration that the airplane will come down quickly and then added
power as we got closer to the ground for a soft landing. That was
Roger's technique. I know many on this list have been flying their
planes for hundreds of hours and will probably have their own techniques
that work.
Thanks everyone for sharing information on this wonderful
builder's list...I am glad Jon survived his crash and I am glad our
airplanes are designed to take a beating.
Cheers,
Brian "Brain" Kissinger
www.brainsflight.com
________________________________ Message 30
____________________________________
Time: 01:38:50 PM PST US
I live in the wet jungles of Oregon, and very few builders here are
going to
the trouble of Etching, Alodine, and Zinc. Nearly everyone is using Zinc
Chromate
on mating surfaces, but many of those builders are just using a scotchbrite
pad to rough the surface prior to spraying. With more rainy and wet days
than sunny, the aircraft are still exhibiting very good corrosion resistance
when using 6061-T6. Note that the important part of that sentence is the
"T6-6061"
part.
If you're using a less corrosion resistant type of aluminum (2024-T3 is
common)
you'll want to do all you can to prolong the life of the aircraft. 6061-T6
will still benefit from the Etch, Alodine, Zinc process, but already
exhibits
excellent corrosion resistance (due in part to being artificially aged
during
the production porocess).
messydeer <messydeer@yahoo.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"messydeer"
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a
vinyl
shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges. Things
went
pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water as
suggested
in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that stuck out
above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the
results.
Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little color
change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath,
making
the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5 minutes for
the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took
longer
to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled from my
first
session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the solution, it
seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness.
I did
prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite; rinse
w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo
cans). Alodine
is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the patchiness
of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering just acid
etching
and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to you zinc
chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44570#44570
________________________________ Message 31
____________________________________
Time: 01:45:08 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Wow Dave! That picture looks like you came to my
garage and cleaned it up and took that picture! Mine
used to be that clean but somehow it got messy and I
can't bring myself to stop and re-organize it before I
finish my airplane.
Your rear channel bend looks great. I think the
spliced channel is stronger than the 12' version since
you reinforce the channel right where you drill the
big hole for the aileron control rod. Chris H. is
good with it and I have a sketch from him to prove it.
Just to be clear, the splice is a mini-channel that
fits inside the flanges of the channel, not just a
plate. It's a tricky bend to get just right so get
some scrap pieces ready for trial and error.
Great work,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Wishing my garage was as clean as Dave's.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--- Dave and Jan Clay <dclaytx2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them
> with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the
> 6 foot spliced route. If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK,
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 32
____________________________________
Time: 01:54:13 PM PST US
The only place I know that you can call at 5 pm and still get material
ordered by the next day AM!!!!!! And that is their normal service. Ron
said it
best " their service has been second to none"
Bob Spudis
Do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 2:30:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rbutterfield@mebtel.net writes:
Tom and Bren Henderson wrote:
> McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) is a good source for Nylon 6/6
I've used them for years for hardware needs at work and their customer
service has been second to none.
--
Regards,
RonB
________________________________ Message 33
____________________________________
Time: 02:06:14 PM PST US
Ron,
How long is your field and how high are your obstacles?? I have a 1300 ft
grass strip with 150 ft power lines at one end and 50 ft trees at the other.
Other runway is 700 ft with 30 ft trees on takeoff side. I was just
wondering
what your take off and landing requirements are.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:36:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rdewees@mindspring.com writes:
I have been following the slip/crab/flaps/no flaps subject with a lot of
interest. I fly a 601HDS taildragger out of a short turf strip and
it's a no brainer to slip to lose altitude- not because I'm showing off,
but because of no flaps and high obstacles at each end.
________________________________ Message 34
____________________________________
Time: 02:13:44 PM PST US
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used the
scotchbrite and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self etching
primer
and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer@yahoo.com writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a
vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges.
Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water
as
suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that
stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with
the
results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little
color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath,
making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5
minutes
for the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took
longer to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled
from
my first session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the
solution, it seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness.
I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite;
rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo
cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given
the
patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering
just
acid etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to
you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
________________________________ Message 35
____________________________________
Time: 02:19:34 PM PST US
Ron
What kind of sink rate are you getting, what is your glide speed , are you
using flaps and what type/size runway are you using?
I usually keep power in right to touchdown except when I fly over my 150'
power line approach to my grass strip.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 7/3/2006 4:31:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rlee468@comcast.net writes:
I never land my 701 with any power on final. Most of the time I use no
power
from the downwind threshold. Occasionally I will have to add a touch of
power to make the runway, but only if I am to far from the runway on
downwind,
or
there is a tailwind on downwind that I have miscalculated. Yes, it drops
fast and the window to flare is small but it is not hard to master.
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:09 AM
In very light planes such as the 701, isn't the power on to landing due to
the lack of inertia of these planes? Robert Schoenberger 701 do not
archive
________________________________ Message 36
____________________________________
Time: 02:41:33 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I noticed when I fueled up at an airport recently
(with 91 octane mogas). The performance of the pump
(the fueling pump) was very poor for the first 20
seconds (fuel was flowing very slowly). The man
mentioned something about fueling be slow when
gasoline temperature is high (due to vapor, or
whatever). As a matter of fact, as soon as cool
gasoline entered the pump, it became faster.
Could this be the same type of problem? I suppose the
gas is fairly hot in those alum wing fuel tanks.
Any way to improve this?
Michel
--- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> I am but I haven't seen any similar problem with my
> plane. It sounds
> like a fuel tank venting issue. That's the only
> thing I can think of
> offhand that would show these symptoms.
>
> On Jul 3, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Test test test... no response yet...
> >
> > Anybody here using Facet pumps?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Good morning!
> >>
> >> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
> >> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
> >> measured
> >> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 37
____________________________________
Time: 02:49:20 PM PST US
Hello Bob and Listers:
I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the
horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable
results.
I have
two questions for everyone:
1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a
plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not to
incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the shine
off
them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move
along?
2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer
thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I like
it
-
but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy primer?
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
NYTerminat@aol.com writes:
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used the
scotchbrite and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self etching
primer
and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer@yahoo.com writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a
vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges.
Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water
as
suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that
stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with
the
results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little
color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath,
making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5
minutes
for the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took
longer to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled
from
my first session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the
solution, it seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness.
I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite;
rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo
cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given
the
patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering
just
acid etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to
you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
________________________________ Message 38
____________________________________
Time: 03:03:31 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wade Jones" <waj@quik.com>
Great looking work Dave ,your brake design must be working well .Building
the brake is my next task .Please e-mail me the rear wing channel photos
.Thanks Wade
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 1:26 PM
>I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route.
> If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
> thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's
> OK...then
> its OK with me.
>
> If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
> photos) showing how I did this task.
>
> Dave
> Scratch building wings
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________ Message 39
____________________________________
Time: 03:14:32 PM PST US
3M makes a Roloc disk for use with a 90-degree die grinder. You can get it
in
any flavor of standard scotch-brite pad. Be carefull with your RPMS. It
will
eat right through your .020 skins if you're too high!
Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: Hello Bob and Listers:
I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the
horizontal
stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable results. I have
two
questions for everyone:
1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a
plain
old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not to
incite
another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the shine off
them.
Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move along?
2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer
thinner/two-part
epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I like it - but
it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy primer?
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
NYTerminat@aol.com
writes:
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used
the scotchbrite
and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self etching primer
and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer@yahoo.com
writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped
a vinyl
shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges.
Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/
water
as suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas
that
stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed
with the results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes,
there
was little color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old
bath,
making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5
minutes
for the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts
took longer to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was
recycled from my first session a month ago. Although Henkel says you
can
re-use the solution, it seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some
patchiness.
I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/
scotchbrite;
rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo
cans).
Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the
patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm
considering
just acid etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this
sound to you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
________________________________ Message 40
____________________________________
Time: 03:43:27 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I use a rubber disk with velcro hooks, meant for sand paper.
Scotch brite (of any colour) will stick to it.
The disk is some 5" in diameter, so it won't reach the tight spots.
But it will speed up the larger stratches of Al...
Carlos
--- Crvsecretary@aol.com a crit :
>
> Hello Bob and Listers:
>
> I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable
results.
I have
> two questions for everyone:
>
> 1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a
> plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not
to
> incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the
shine off
> them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move
along?
>
> 2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer
> thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I
like
it -
> but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy primer?
>
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> 601xl N458XL (reserved)
__________________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 41
____________________________________
Time: 03:54:48 PM PST US
Afix the scotchbrite pad to a vibrating or random orbital sander...
This will should help.
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Crvsecretary@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
Hello Bob and Listers:
I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the
horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable
results. I have two questions for everyone:
1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using
a plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as
not to incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take
the shine off them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to
make the job move along?
2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer
thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I
like it - but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy
primer?
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
NYTerminat@aol.com writes:
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used
the scotchbrite and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self
etching primer and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer@yahoo.com writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I
draped a vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around
the edges. Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta
white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2
w/ water as suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape
over areas that stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was
dissappointed with the results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15
minutes, there was little color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the
old bath, making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick.
Only took 5 minutes for the desired color change. But I did notice the
2nd batch of parts took longer to change. I might also mention the
original 1:2 bath was recycled from my first session a month ago.
Although Henkel says you can re-use the solution, it seems fresh Alodine
does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some
patchiness. I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured
w/ scotchbrite; rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept
fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate
(tempo cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the
primer. Given the patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its
application, I'm considering just acid etching and then zinc chromate
without Alodine. How does this sound to you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
________________________________ Message 42
____________________________________
Time: 03:54:48 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi Guys,
This month's Kit Planes Magazine was a real value. Frank Hinde wrote a
very honest and candid article on the Stratus Subaru EA81 that was
extremely well done. A BD5 was also featured with a Subaru EA81 that
could have kept Jim Bede out of Bankruptcy. Also the $10K Rev Master
3000 was featured in the same magazine. When this engine gets into
production, its price/performance will seriously eat into the Jabaru and
Rotax market. Really worth while reading, especially those of you that
haven't decided on an engine just yet.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
________________________________ Message 43
____________________________________
Time: 03:54:48 PM PST US
I'm encouraged by the good responses to my cowl questions. Here is
another:
Is it best to assemble the two halves of the cowl on the work table and
somehow clamp or cleco them together before fitting one or both to the
fuselage? With the Stratus engine in place it isn't possible to fit the
lower cowl to the fuselage without trimming it to clear the various
"lumps" on the engine. Trimming the lower cowl seems to be a cut and
fit sort of process. Also, it seems to be necessary to establish the
position and slope of the upper cowl pretty early in the process. Any
advice from those who have been there already?
George Swinford
________________________________ Message 44
____________________________________
Time: 04:21:22 PM PST US
OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell. I am
320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I am at a
point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes are cut,
just
needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from Aircraft Tool Supply
because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said the company has been
back
ordered for some time now and the manufacture said it will be at least
another
month, so I bought this one. IT STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess
up a
perfectly good hole. It won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am
wanting to build my center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first
and
the front one can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these dye's
for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care if they
are
made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make them, or does
anyone have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to me. I am
running
out of things to do on the fuse now. I still have wings to build after the
fu
se!! I could continue using the tool I just bought, but I really hate
using
it. My building buddy already has a lot on his plate and needs his tools
right now. We were neck and neck in the build, but he has long passed me.
I
looked at the Sonex site, but there's is smaller and I would rather stay
with
the plans. Any help would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and
a
correctional officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these
specialty
tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal,
plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
Thanks,
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
Building Fuse, but thinking about building the engine instead!!
________________________________ Message 45
____________________________________
Time: 04:57:44 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
The article also includes Bill Clapp's fantastic Corvair powered KR-2
(complete firewall forward about $3,500). This William Wynne Corvair
conversion is my choice for my 601XL.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:52 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
>
> Hi Guys,
> This month's Kit Planes Magazine was a real value. Frank Hinde wrote a
> very honest and candid article on the Stratus Subaru EA81 that was
> extremely well done. A BD5 was also featured with a Subaru EA81 that could
> have kept Jim Bede out of Bankruptcy. Also the $10K Rev Master 3000 was
> featured in the same magazine. When this engine gets into production, its
> price/performance will seriously eat into the Jabaru and Rotax market.
> Really worth while reading, especially those of you that haven't decided
> on an engine just yet.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 46
____________________________________
Time: 05:31:10 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Did you do a water break test? Spray a little clean water on the prepared
aluminium and it should coat the aluminium without any breaks in the
water... Then it's ready for the Alodine. I've used Alodine several times
without the splochyness you describe.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:16 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi!
>
> I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep.
> I draped a vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's
> underneath around the edges. Things went pretty well.
> Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
>
> After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine,
> 1:2 w/ water as suggested in their literature. Used
> cheesecloth to drape over areas that stuck out above the bath
> and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the
> results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes,
> there was little color change.
>
> I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to
> the old bath, making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to
> do the trick. Only took 5 minutes for the desired color
> change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took longer
> to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was
> recycled from my first session a month ago. Although Henkel
> says you can re-use the solution, it seems fresh Alodine does
> a much better job.
>
> But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got
> some patchiness. I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed
> on and scoured w/ scotchbrite; rinse w/ water; wipe w/
> lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
>
> Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc
> chromate (tempo cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote
> adhesion of the primer. Given the patchiness of its coat and
> the hassle with its application, I'm considering just acid
> etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this
> sound to you zinc chromaters?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan[/b]
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44570#44570
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 47
____________________________________
Time: 05:55:31 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
--- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello Bob and Listers:
>
> I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can
> approach for the
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons
> with acceptable results. I have
> two questions for everyone:
>
> 1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever
> by hand. I'm using a
> plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to
> remain nameless so as not to
> incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the
> parts to take the shine off
> them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something
> to make the job move along?
>
> 2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a
> scotchbrite/lacquer
> thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff
> REALLY sticks !!!! I like it -
> but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a
> two-part epoxy primer?
>
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
Tracy.
I used the two part epoxy on the entire airplane
inside. Alumaprep/alodine then prime. Yes it was a
lot of work. I let the alumaprep do all the work of
dulling the surface. I mixed some 409 cleaner in with
the full strength alumaprep to do two steps in one. I
cleaned it with thinner first to get off the ink, then
let the alumaprep do its thing.
I know a lot of people say there is no need to go to
all this work, that 6061 will outlast all of us.
Maybe so, but I had a 1964 C-150 that was paper thin
because of corrosion after thirty years and never by
the ocean. Yeah I know it was 2024 not 6061. But the
2024 they use has an almost pure aluminum layer clad
on it, this is way more corrosion resistant than 6061.
Where did all that pure aluminum go?
I figure that some new owner of my plane thirty years
from now will look inside at no corrosion and say WOW
did this guy really know how to build an airplane.
Worth every extra hour I put into it.
Although I must confess that I found a place called
Pacific Coast Anodizing that did what the industry
calls Chem-film, (alumaprep/alodine)that did all of
both wing parts (ribs,skins,spars all little parts)
for $75.00 and the entire fuse and tail parts for
another $125.00 for me. I got them back individually
wrapped in paper, picked up and delivered to my door.
Not bad if you live in the central valley of
California.
Keep up the good work I think it is worth it.
Mark S.
701/912S
Paint booth built
painting
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 48
____________________________________
Time: 06:52:17 PM PST US
Larry
When I built my 701, I made my flanging dies from plywood as per Chris H.
plans.
I used them for my 701, got permission from ZAC to use them on the 601
(plans called for slightly different size flanges) and my cousin is now
using
them for his 701. Simple to make, but take a little time. At the time
(no
expereince) it took me one day to make a male/female set, the second day I
made
two different sets.---------(now I could make them all in one day) I have
friends
who believe in overkill and think they have to be mechined from aluminum
at a mechine shop----not so-- unless you are going into the airplane
production
business.
Fritz -- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
LHusky@aol.com wrote:
OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell.
I am
320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I am at a
point
in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes are cut, just
needs
flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from Aircraft Tool Supply because
Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said the company has been back
ordered
for some time now and the manufacture said it will be at least another
month,
so I bought this one. IT STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a
perfectly
good hole. It won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am wanting
to build my center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and the
front
one can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these dye's
for
me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care if they are
made
of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make them, or does anyone
have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to me. I am running out of
things to do on the fuse now. I still have wings to build after the fuse!!
I could continue using the tool I just bought, but I really hate using it.
My
building buddy already has a lot on his plate and needs his tools right now.
We were neck and neck in the build, but he has long passed me. I looked at
the
Sonex site, but there's is smaller and I would rather stay with the plans.
Any help would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and a
correctional
officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these specialty tools,
especially
in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal, plastic, or even
dried mud dye's right now.
Thanks,
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
Building Fuse, but thinking about building the engine instead!!
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 49
____________________________________
Time: 07:21:42 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
I got stung by Spruce's backorder of the flanging tool
too. I then noticed that the replacement wheels were
made by Avery. A little bit of thought suggested that
if the wheels were made by Avery, the tool must be
too. I called Avery and the tool arrived in about four
days. Exactly what was in the Spruce catalog. I don't
know why the Spruce Goose is having so much trouble
getting them.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch builder
Working on Elevator
do not archive
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 50
____________________________________
Time: 07:23:44 PM PST US
Big Gee,
Where did you get the plans for the plywood dies??
Thanks,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Big Gee
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: flanging dies
Larry
When I built my 701, I made my flanging dies from plywood as per Chris
H. plans. I used them for my 701, got permission from ZAC to use them
on the 601 (plans called for slightly different size flanges) and my
cousin is now using them for his 701. Simple to make, but take a
little time. At the time (no expereince) it took me one day to make a
male/female set, the second day I made two different sets.---------(now
I could make them all in one day) I have friends who believe in overkill
and think they have to be mechined from aluminum at a mechine
shop----not so-- unless you are going into the airplane production
business.
Fritz -- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
LHusky@aol.com wrote:
OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell.
I am 320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I
am at a point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes
are cut, just needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from
Aircraft Tool Supply because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said
the company has been back ordered for some time now and the manufacture
said it will be at least another month, so I bought this one. IT
STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a perfectly good hole. It
won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am wanting to build my
center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and the front one
can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these
dye's for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care
if they are made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make
them, or does anyone have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to
me. I am running out of things to do on the fuse now. I still have
wings to build after the fuse!! I could continue using the tool I just
bought, but I really hate using it. My building buddy already has a lot
on his plate and needs his tools right now. We were neck and neck in
the build, but he has long passed me. I looked at the Sonex site, but
there's is smaller and I would rather stay with the plans. Any help
would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and a correctional
officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these specialty
tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal,
plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
Thanks,
________________________________ Message 51
____________________________________
Time: 07:28:55 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
George,
The slope of the upper cowl is the first issue. Trying to keep the
lower edges of the upper cowl level with the longerons, plus or minus a
quarter of an inch at the front,
the upper cowl has to be the first piece. You've got the most room at
the top, but the cowl will look strange if it isn't level at the joining
edge and parallel with the forward top
skin on the top. This requires you get some duct tape and position it
first on top of the engine if your engine is mounted.
Once you've worked top down, it's time to find the spots that need
clearance to get the bottom to come up around the engine and get mating
surface underlap with the top cowl. The engine also has to have
3-degrees offset for prop torque and can be down as much as 2 degrees to
get the prop flange and spinner to align with the cowl.
If you were making an engine mount, it'd be better to pivot around the
front flange and swing the rear of the engine to keep the spinner in the
center of the cowl. As most have
found, the Zenith mount with Stratus engine can be offset up front by as
much as 3/4-inch. You might find it easier to remove the exhaust pipes,
muffler and valve covers while doing this fit up. This will initially
allow you to focus on fewer items like the oil pan. Then mark the spots
of contact and consider how much is needed to get around them.
Well, you get the drift of what is needed, but it's easier top down and
you'll fit these a good many times to compile the best position before
you start anchoring things with
fasteners. I found the places that would ultimately become center
positions for Dzus fasteners and drilled an 1/8-inch hole for clecos to
first secure things. It does get close everywhere, but you can get it
all to fit if you plan ahead before drilling for the clecos.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
George Swinford wrote:
> I'm encouraged by the good responses to my cowl questions. Here is
> another:
>
> Is it best to assemble the two halves of the cowl on the work table
> and somehow clamp or cleco them together before fitting one or both to
> the fuselage? With the Stratus engine in place it isn't possible to
> fit the lower cowl to the fuselage without trimming it to clear the
> various "lumps" on the engine. Trimming the lower cowl seems to be a
> cut and fit sort of process. Also, it seems to be necessary to
> establish the position and slope of the upper cowl pretty early in the
> process. Any advice from those who have been there already?
>
> George Swinford
________________________________ Message 52
____________________________________
Time: 07:38:05 PM PST US
Fritz, I would be interested in seeing a set. Do you have a picture of the
die and maybe a picture of a lightning hole. Any instructions on how to
make
them? I have a band saw and a drill press. The rest, I could probably
borrow from another officer at work. I am ready to try anything.
Larry
________________________________ Message 53
____________________________________
Time: 07:39:31 PM PST US
Doug, how did they work for you. I really wanted the Avery flanging tool.
Mine came in and has big wheels that are metal. Would not be bad for
something thicker than what we are using on our planes, but I don't like
the metal
wheels.
Larry
________________________________ Message 54
____________________________________
Time: 07:53:58 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Thanks everybody for the feedback :=)
> The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand.? I'm using a
plain old
scotchbrite pad
Ditto w/ the dual action scotchbrite, especially w/ skins, since the pad is
~6"
across. I have a weanie compressor so it's not time efficient for me.
> Did you do a water break test?
Well...uh...no...Knew about it but didn't do it. I did notice the water ran
off
easily in sheets, but should have thoroughly tested.
> jungles of Oregon
I'm in similar jungles of the former Oregon Territory. Before that the city
was
named by George Vancouver after the controller of the storekeeper's account
of
the Royal Navy. Juding from that, I presume it to have been one of the last
things he named.
Cheers,
Dan
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44661#44661
________________________________ Message 55
____________________________________
Time: 08:53:25 PM PST US
Ron, great to hear from you. I finished up the annual and mods tonight and
after washing tomorrow I'll try flying again. It's been a month. Hope I
remember
how ! I can't wait to see how the LRI works out I just installed. Hope it's
as big a help to me as you have indicted it has been for you. Take care,
Bill
________________________________ Message 56
____________________________________
Time: 08:56:20 PM PST US
Tracy,
I found that it was not bad using the pad by hand. I know that there are
scotchbrite wheels that are available but I did not use them. I found that
when
the pad took longer to use I got rid of it and used a new one. They weren't
all that expensive and the new one worked much faster.
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:50:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Crvsecretary@aol.com writes:
The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a plain
old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not to
incite
another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the shine off
them.
Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move along?
________________________________ Message 57
____________________________________
Time: 09:14:30 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Enco sells the maroon 7447 scotchbrite for $.59 per pad. I don't use one,
but they
also have on sale scotchbrite wheels. Order more than $50 and you can get
shipping free if you use the code WEBRN76 Their site is . They ship fast,
are
fairly cheap and have excellent customer service.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44671#44671
________________________________ Message 58
____________________________________
Time: 10:03:42 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
If the fueling station has underground tanks and above ground pumps
that are sitting out in the sun, the fuel in the pumps may partially
vaporize and cause slow pumping at first. The pumps are sucking the
gas up out of the tanks, which makes the problem worse. High octane
auto gas is easier to vaporize than low octane and all auto gas is
easier to vaporize than avgas. Also, auto gas made for winter use has
a higher vapor pressure than summer auto gas.
With the fuel system you described in your earlier post, I wouldn't
think vapor at your pump inlets would be a problem since any vapor
that forms in the tank should rise to the top of the tank and away
from the tank outlets and the pumps.
If your tank screens are starting to clog up, you may see a drop in
pump pressure as you demand higher fuel flows with high throttle
settings. If this is the problem, it should also show up on the
ground during a high power run-up. If your tank vents are restricted,
it may take a while for a drop in pump pressure to show up because it
takes a while to form a partial vacuum in the tank. I don't know how
your tanks are vented but you should check for blockage (mud wasps
are notorious for clogging up small tubing for instance). Any
restriction in your fuel lines upstream of your pumps can cause
pressure drops at higher fuel flows.
On Jul 3, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> I noticed when I fueled up at an airport recently
> (with 91 octane mogas). The performance of the pump
> (the fueling pump) was very poor for the first 20
> seconds (fuel was flowing very slowly). The man
> mentioned something about fueling be slow when
> gasoline temperature is high (due to vapor, or
> whatever). As a matter of fact, as soon as cool
> gasoline entered the pump, it became faster.
>
> Could this be the same type of problem? I suppose the
> gas is fairly hot in those alum wing fuel tanks.
>
> Any way to improve this?
>
> Michel
>
>
>>>>
>>>> Good morning!
>>>>
>>>> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
>>>> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
>>>> measured
>>>> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
>>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 59
____________________________________
Time: 10:27:41 PM PST US
First of all, I am not trying to pass myself off as any sort of "expert". We
truly have many of those on this list. I say that in all sincerity. I for
one am grateful for the wealth of knowledge found here. I'm just learning as
I go.
Anyway, I have put together an Acrobat pdf file detailing how I bent my wing
rear channels. Randy Bryant has graciously posted them on his website
www.n344rb.com and Chris Smith will be posting them on his site
http://ch-601xl.com/ .
They say necessity is the mother of invention For me that should be poverty
is the mother. I'm pretty good at figuring out easier and less expensive
ways to do things. I hope my ideas can be of some help to other builders out
there.
Thanks,
Dave
Temple, Texas
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
________________________________ Message 60
____________________________________
Time: 11:23:56 PM PST US
Hope you are able to adjust it correctly, BUT
If the range of the sender cannot be possible to set complete, and you need
to
make a choise. I will advise to have the accurate reading in the empty side
mark.
Is better to know when the tank is empty, or how close is to empty, when
you are
flying headwind.
Doesnt matter that the gauge marks full from, lets say 3/4 to full, for
example...
Just what I will do...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message
posted
by: "Randy Bryant"
Thanks Larry,
In short, I guess what you're saying is for me not to have a "built in"
reserve with my guage...???
Just make it read what's really there.. If it's full, it's full, if it's
empty, it's empty...right?
Thanks!
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 4:45 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
>
> Randy,
> I'd put the float in a position that puts the least amount of fuel at the
> bottom of the fuel gage reading. It's being able to see the float jiggle
> to a low fuel setting
> that offers an idea of how far it is to empty. It would be my preference
> to know that to within the last gallon. Where it is when it's full or
> above half is of little consequence
> compared to the gage that will read nearest empty. Otherwise you'd be
> guessing when it hit bottom or if it hit bottom with 3 gallons in play due
> to the movement of the
> plane. My gages read to less than half a gallon and it's easy to tell
> when they've stopped moving.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Randy Bryant wrote:
>
>> Over the past 2 days I've been scratch building my wing tanks... I plan
>> on doing a top installation of the fuel senders. Not really knowing the
>> exact location of where to cut the hole for the sender in the top of my
>> tank I did the following:
>> 1. I put the tank on my level table and using a wooden block under one
>> end of the tank, simulating the dihedral of the wing.
>> 2. Next I put a level flat on the table beside the tank simulated the
>> fuel level. I wanted my sender positioned in such a way that when the
>> float hit the bottom of the tank, I would still have approx. 3 gallons of
>> fuel in the tank. (Inboard bottom corner of the tank.)
>> 3. Sliding the level back and forth along the table you can manipulate
>> the point where the fuel level and tank bottom meet. After doing some
>> calculations I came up with a placement of my sender where approx. 3
>> gallons would be left in the tank when the float hit the bottom of the
>> tank.
>> I guess my real question here is: Do you guys see anything wrong with
>> the way I'm doing this? Am I overlooking an important item in all of
>> this?
>> The measurement I came up with is that the sender would be 420mm from
>> the inboard tank end, measure towards outboard. I have posted an
>> illustration of what I'm trying to describe here:
>> http://www.n344rb.com/images/FuelSenderAnim.gif
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Randy
>> XL Wings - Plans Only
>> http://www.n344rb.com
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Plans builder HELP!!! |
My .02cents. I made my flanging dies out of red oak. It split in half on
the grain the first time I used it ! Actually I had a machine shop make 'em
for me. Was'nt cheap. Glued it back together, and reinforced it with a large
hose clamp.Also put a disc of plywood on the back side as I was using the
bolt and nut method to draw them together. Did not break again, but the results
were very poor. I had a real hard time getting that bolt tightened down
enough to do the job,was actually stripping the threads off ! What I found thou
was that if I "pre-flange" them with the dies, then follow that up with that 2
nylon wheel gizmo, I got excellent results.
Could also get good results with the wheel flanger only,just takes
practice,and its way cheaper than having those dies made for me.Live and learn.
You results may vary. do not arcive.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
Bob,
Our field is 4200 feet long and there are no trees on either end. I am
in the desert at E77 airport, San Manuel, Arizona. We are at 3300 feet
above sea level. I really haven't shaken out the requirements to do the
things you asked, sorry.
Our density altitude can get very high when it gets to 100 degrees. It
sure saps the heck out of your power. In spite of that my 701 literally
jumps off the ground with the 100 HP Rotax.
I can stop very short from touch-down point, the trick is touching down
at precisely the spot of intention. Just a bit of float can put you down
the runway 100 feet or so very quickly. If you can get it in you can
certainly get it out, not many planes can do that.
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: NYTerminat@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Ron,
How long is your field and how high are your obstacles?? I have a 1300
ft grass strip with 150 ft power lines at one end and 50 ft trees at the
other. Other runway is 700 ft with 30 ft trees on takeoff side. I was
just wondering what your take off and landing requirements are.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:36:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rdewees@mindspring.com writes:
I have been following the slip/crab/flaps/no flaps subject with a
lot of
interest. I fly a 601HDS taildragger out of a short turf strip and
it's a no brainer to slip to lose altitude- not because I'm showing
off,
but because of no flaps and high obstacles at each end.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Parts List |
That is exactly what I was hoping to find. Thanks.
Larry
On 7/4/06, wscribb <wscribb@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "wscribb" <wscribb@centurytel.net>
>
> Larry,
>
> Check out ch601.org under builder resources, you'll find the hardware list
> and several different material layouts.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lwinger
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 7:55 AM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
>
> I'm in my research phase for scratch building and am finding this list to
> be
> invaluable. Maybe you can help with two items.
>
> 1) I've searched the archives in vain for a complete parts list of the
> 601XL. Has anyone done that and shared the results?
>
> 2) I'm also trying to see how I can maximize my sheet aluminum by
> pre-planning my cuts (knowing I'll have to factor in re-cuts and waste!).
> Has anyone visualized the optimal layout in a program like Visio?
>
> --------
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> Plan set 6493 in hand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44740#44740
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | [ Dave Thompson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Dave Thompson <dave.thompson@verizon.net>
Lists: AeroElectric-List,Zenith-List
Subject: Proposed Zenith 601XL Panel Layout
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dave.thompson@verizon.net.07.04.2006/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
----------------------------------------------------------
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Plans builder HELP!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> After a couple of months pondering how to put a
> flange in a lightning hole. A friend suggested a
> flanging tool that could be used in a drill press.
> I finally came up with a tool that works like a
> circle cutter. The end of the tool houses the two
> bearings that flange the hole. As soon as get the
> picture of the tool on here, I will show to all of
> you.
> Thanks for your patience. Bob Sceppa
--- Flydog1966@aol.com wrote:
> My .02cents. I made my flanging dies out of red
> oak. It split in half on
> the grain the first time I used it ! Actually I had
> a machine shop make 'em
> for me. Was'nt cheap. Glued it back together, and
> reinforced it with a large
> hose clamp.Also put a disc of plywood on the back
> side as I was using the
> bolt and nut method to draw them together. Did not
> break again, but the results
> were very poor. I had a real hard time getting that
> bolt tightened down
> enough to do the job,was actually stripping the
> threads off ! What I found thou
> was that if I "pre-flange" them with the dies, then
> follow that up with that 2
> nylon wheel gizmo, I got excellent results.
> Could also get good results with the wheel flanger
> only,just takes
> practice,and its way cheaper than having those dies
> made for me.Live and learn.
> You results may vary. do not arcive.
>
__________________________________________________
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron dimension on 601HD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Bill,
Even though the aileron rib doesn't change much, I'd treat the 25mm
dimensions as a corrective effort to make the travel less a problem in
the forward (aileron down)
direction. You want a little more up aileron than down and the 25mm
down from the rib is very helpful in keeping the rod end and bolts from
getting caught up on the
lower trail edge of the wing, or it was in my case a bit of a problem.
I made the first horn and had to revert to a second one using the 25mm
dimensions.
Larry McFarland
Bill Steer wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <steerr@bellsouth.net>
>
> I have a question for those of you who built their 601HDs according to
> the hand drawn plans. I had to adjust the length of my ailerons, so
> removed the inboard end rib and horn. When I was reassembling the
> aileron, and went to install the reinforcing L angle that I had left
> off originally, I noticed things didn't seem to fit as shown on the
> drawings. Then I noticed that the original drawings had dimensions of
> 40mm from the front face of the aileron to the center of the hole in
> the horn, and 15mm from the bottom of the aileron to the center of the
> hole, as shown on 6-V-10. The 4th edition of the CAD drawings,
> though, show dimensions of 25mm and 25mm. Does anybody recall which
> dimension they used?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Bill
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot CFI with SLSA in South Florida |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
The map at this link shows one:
www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_034.htm
Blue Side Up Aviation, Inc in Ft. Lauderdale
www.bsuaviation.com
Contact: Paul Matthews. 954-771-2937
-- Craig
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard T. Perry" <perryrt@hotmail.com>
I would agree with all the comments about McMaster-Carr - they're a great
bunch.
However, one piece of (possibly unfounded) gossip I've heard. I understand
(from reading it on the Internet) that you shouldn't let them know that
you're a homebuilder. Supposedly, they won't sell to you after that (due to
liability, I would suppose.) I haven't run into this personally, but I
haven't brought it up with them, either.
I use them all the time for a lot of stuff.
Oh, and you might check Woodcraft if you need pieces of UHMW poly - they had
a cheap "grab-bag" deal which I got several years ago - handy for "playing
around with" to try something out.
They're here:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4299
Good luck!
Regards,
Richard T. Perry perryrt@hotmail.com
"Fraser, there's a guy on my corner who asks me every
morning if I've seen God; do you really think he
expects me to point Him out?"
"Well, you know, Ray, if you did, perhaps he'd stop
asking."
Ray Vecchio and Benton Fraser, "Hawk and a Handsaw", Due_South
Message 35
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot CFI with SLSA in South Florida |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Whoops, I missed another potential school. They appear to actually have a
601XL:
http://www.pbflight.com/acdetail.php?RegNum=N189GS
-- Craig
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Homemade AOA help |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
To those of you that have made your AOA from the plans at CH601.org:
I had Scott make me a probe and now I have to find the tubing to fit.
The drawing says 3/16 plastic tubing - I have finally figured that
3/16 must be the I/D, correct?
Assuming that is correct, I have found vinyl tubing that is 5/16 O/D
and 3/16 I/D, but I wanted to use more rigid tubing, like
polyethylene. Has anyone found that kind of tubing at a HomeDepot or
such? I have looked at places like Wicks and Aircraft Spruce - they
often don't list an inner diameter - at least I have had trouble
figuring which one is correct.
If you have rigged your probe and gauge, please let me know what kind
of tubing you used and, if possible, your source.
Thanks, Michael Valentine
do not archive
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: McMaster-Carr |
Not to start something, but as an aside about UHMW: I considered using it in
place of the ZAC supplied nylon, because it is so "slick" and so easy to
work. But from reading technical literature, I decided against it. It seems that
they strongly discourage solidly fastening UHMW to metal in more than one
place, because it has a vastly different coefficient of expansion FWIW.
Jay in Dallas
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade AOA help |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I used the 1/4" OD nylaflow tubing from Aircraft Spruce, and made
connections with 1/4" ID rubber tubing and home-made clamps. The
clamps are a couple of turns of heavy safety wire twisted tight with
the safety wire pliers. This same combination works for the
pitot/static probe too.
I'm sure there are many other satisfactory choices for this
application. Take a look: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/tubing.html
Paul
XL fuselage
>To those of you that have made your AOA from the plans at CH601.org:
>I had Scott make me a probe and now I have to find the tubing to fit.
>The drawing says 3/16 plastic tubing - I have finally figured that
>3/16 must be the I/D, correct?
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | New Site Announcement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
I just published a site to collect and tabulate
statistical information about engines and anything
related to homebuilding. This site is not operational
at the moment but feel free to visit and read about
the project. If you have any question or comment,
please use the feedback page or send me an email off
list. Keep in mind that this site is a work in
progress and have just been published, so pardon the
rough edges. Here is the address www.ea-report.com
Do not archive
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL plans
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sorry I misunderstood you.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark Sherman
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 11:51 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman
> <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
>
> Noel.
>
> No where in my post did I say to use pure aluminum.
> What I said is that pure aluminum is clad to 2024 to
> make it more corrosion resistant. So the pure aluminum
> coating is more corrosion resistant than bare 6061 or
> 2024. That is why most certified aircraft use 2024
> alclad, they get the strength of 2024 and the
> corrosion protection of the pure aluminum clad.
>
> Mark S.
>
> --- Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
> > <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> >
> > Mark:
> >
> > I congratulate you on using the Alodine and zinc
> > chromate. I think the
> > epoxy base is a bit of overkill if you aren't going
> > to try to stick cloth
> > over it but as you say it will stick!!
> >
> > If you really want pure aluminium and I don't think
> > you really do, its
> > available in sheets from the folks who make
> > aluminium doors etc. You will
> > find pure aluminium isn't nearly as corrosion
> > resistant as alumiclad 6061.
> > You will also find it has the strength a little
> > greater than wet toilet
> > paper and rivets won't stay tight in it.
> >
> > Did you alodine both sides of your skins? Doing so
> > protects the skins under
> > the nice urethane paints and primers.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> > Behalf Of
> > > Mark Sherman
> > > Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:24 PM
> > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc
> > Chromate, Part II
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman
> > > <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Bob and Listers:
> > > >
> > > > I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle
> > can
> > > > approach for the
> > > > horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and
> > ailerons
> > > > with acceptable results. I have
> > > > two questions for everyone:
> > > >
> > > > 1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take
> > forever
> > > > by hand. I'm using a
> > > > plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to
> > > > remain nameless so as not to
> > > > incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing
> > the
> > > > parts to take the shine off
> > > > them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or
> > something
> > > > to make the job move along?
> > > >
> > > > 2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using
> > a
> > > > scotchbrite/lacquer
> > > > thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff
> > > > REALLY sticks !!!! I like it -
> > > > but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a
> > > > two-part epoxy primer?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tracy Smith
> > > > Naugatuck, CT
> > > > 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> > > > do not archive
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Tracy.
> > >
> > > I used the two part epoxy on the entire airplane
> > > inside. Alumaprep/alodine then prime. Yes it was
> > a
> > > lot of work. I let the alumaprep do all the work
> > of
> > > dulling the surface. I mixed some 409 cleaner in
> > with
> > > the full strength alumaprep to do two steps in
> > one. I
> > > cleaned it with thinner first to get off the ink,
> > then
> > > let the alumaprep do its thing.
> > >
> > > I know a lot of people say there is no need to go
> > to
> > > all this work, that 6061 will outlast all of us.
> > > Maybe so, but I had a 1964 C-150 that was paper
> > thin
> > > because of corrosion after thirty years and never
> > by
> > > the ocean. Yeah I know it was 2024 not 6061. But
> > the
> > > 2024 they use has an almost pure aluminum layer
> > clad
> > > on it, this is way more corrosion resistant than
> > 6061.
> > > Where did all that pure aluminum go?
> > >
> > > I figure that some new owner of my plane thirty
> > years
> > > from now will look inside at no corrosion and say
> > WOW
> > > did this guy really know how to build an airplane.
> > > Worth every extra hour I put into it.
> > >
> > > Although I must confess that I found a place
> > called
> > > Pacific Coast Anodizing that did what the industry
> > > calls Chem-film, (alumaprep/alodine)that did all
> > of
> > > both wing parts (ribs,skins,spars all little
> > parts)
> > > for $75.00 and the entire fuse and tail parts for
> > > another $125.00 for me. I got them back
> > individually
> > > wrapped in paper, picked up and delivered to my
> > door.
> > > Not bad if you live in the central valley of
> > > California.
> > >
> > > Keep up the good work I think it is worth it.
> > >
> > > Mark S.
> > > 701/912S
> > > Paint booth built
> > > painting
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> >
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part III |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Very factual. Thank you.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 2:27 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part III
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
>
> I'd like to share with you answers to questions I had about
> using Alumiprep, Alodine, and Zinc Chromate. Below is a
> response by Dr. Sheldon Dean, President of Dean Corrosion
> Technology, Inc. I had asked him about reusing Alumiprep and
> whether scotchbriting without an acid etch would work. Also
> if alodine could be skipped and just put on zinc chromate.
>
> ...The etch solution is basically an acid etch that is
> intended to remove a very thin layer of aluminum together
> with the oxide on the surface. The reason to do that is to
> allow any particles, dirt or grease that may be on the
> surface to be undercut and dispersed by the detergents in the
> etch. If your Scotch Brite abraded surface were really clean
> and free of particles then maybe it would not be necessary to
> use the etch cleaner, but it is sort of an insurance policy
> against the occasional lapse in obtaining a really clean
> starting surface. Regarding reuse of the etch solution, you
> can do that up to the point where the solution begins to lose
> potency. If the solution becomes dark in color, or does not
> brighten the aluminum after immersion it is spent and should
> be discarded.
>
> The Alodine treatment produces a conversion coating on the
> aluminum that is much thicker than the normal air formed
> oxide. It does provide some corrosion protection because of
> its greater thickness, and it also does not hydrate when
> exposed to high humidity. One mechanism of paint failure
> involves the conversion of aluminum oxide to aluminum
> hydroxide from high moisture content environments. The
> aluminum hydroxide is much more voluminous than the oxide and
> that causes the paint to blister and spall off. Usually the
> conversion of oxide to hydroxide requires something like
> chloride to be present so if you had a really well washed
> surface (rinsed with chloride free deionized water) maybe the
> paint adhesion to the aluminum surface would be adequate
> without Alodine. Again, it is like an insurance policy to
> cover less than perfect operations.
>
> The zinc chromate paint is inhibited so corrosion is not a
> major issue. However, it is vital to have the best paint
> adhesion you can obtain because corrosion is only one
> mechanism for loss of paint adhesion. Temperature swings and
> sun exposure are equally important. The coefficient of
> thermal expansion of paint is at least 10 times that of
> aluminum metal so every time the surface cycles from very
> cold to very hot the paint is being squeezed and stretched
> probably beyond its yield point. Sun exposure causes the
> organic vehicle in the paint to cross link and/or oxidize and
> that makes it chalk and become brittle. In most cases the
> corrosion of the aluminum is not a major problem so the use
> of paint is for cosmetic reasons. Atmospheric corrosion of
> aluminum alloys usually results in a mild surface pitting of
> the aluminum surface that gives it a dull grey appearance.
> There is little loss of strength that accompanies the
> corrosion. The exception to this observation is in ca!
> ses where alloys like 2024 T6 or 7075 T6 heat treated to
> obtain maximum strength are used. These alloys are
> susceptible to exfoliation and stress corrosion cracking in
> marine atmospheres and that can cause major problems. In
> that case most folks believe that paint can help. However,
> there are tempers of these alloys that will resist these
> corrosion problems, and the use of alclad products also
> prevents corrosion damage.
>
> Regarding the question of whether you can skip the etch and
> Alodine treatments the answer is that it depends on what you
> are trying to achieve. The Scotch Brite treatment will
> improve paint adhesion, and in many cases that would be
> enough. However, It is impossible for me to anticipate the
> degree of severity of the environments that your product may
> encounter in its use so it would be only a guess if I told
> you either that you needed them or not. The other key issue
> is how long do you expect these surfaces to perform before
> you would need to maintain them? The etch and Alodine
> treatments should give you several years of good performance
> before spalling of the paint occurred...
>
> Think I'll continue to Scotchbrite, etch, alodine, and zinc
> chromate the interior.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44772#44772
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | 601XL Parts List |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay@videotron.ca>
Hi,
I am a scratch builder from plan of a ch640. I think for any model, when you
scratch build the plane, you must do your own part list. I do an inventory
(not completed yet) of all pieces to cut, in an Excell files, and I also
draw all parts in multiples visio diagrams to calculate, optimize
positioning and cutting the parts. You are sure to positioning biggest part
first, before cutting small pieces in any order.
Example for the .025 sheet, I draw 9 sheets of 4 feet x 12 feet, and do
permutation for all pieces required for rudder, tail wing and Left and Right
wings. I have to complete the drawing with fuselage. Very usefull, and I
think necessary to do a good planning, minimize losts, etc. My visio sheet
automatically put measurement when you draw boxes to represent pieces.
I you want a copy of my files to fill with your plan, I can send you a copy
with some material positioned as examples. Send me an email at the address
below, because I dont want to put it on the list server.
See my website for my project, but those file are not available thrue it.
My rudder and tail wing are nearly completed. I began the right wing.
Christian Tremblay
Scratch builder CH640 from plan
cj.tremblay@videotron.ca
www.zodiac640.com
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de lwinger
Envoy: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:55 AM
: zenith-list@matronics.com
Objet: Zenith-List: 601XL Parts List
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
I'm in my research phase for scratch building and am finding this list to be
invaluable. Maybe you can help with two items.
1) I've searched the archives in vain for a complete parts list of the
601XL. Has anyone done that and shared the results?
2) I'm also trying to see how I can maximize my sheet aluminum by
pre-planning my cuts (knowing I'll have to factor in re-cuts and waste!).
Has anyone visualized the optimal layout in a program like Visio?
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plan set 6493 in hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44740#44740
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