Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine (James Ferris)
2. 04:16 AM - Re: Can we just lighten up? (James Ferris)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine (Dave Thompson)
4. 06:01 AM - Re: Corvair cranks (Bill Naumuk)
5. 06:06 AM - Re: don't archive!!! (Bill Naumuk)
6. 06:33 AM - Re: Wing Building (Edward Moody II)
7. 06:38 AM - Re: Getting started on CH601XL (Edward Moody II)
8. 06:47 AM - Re: weight of engines? (Jim Pellien)
9. 07:29 AM - Re: Wing Building (Jaybannist@cs.com)
10. 07:39 AM - Re: Getting started on CH601XL (Wade Jones)
11. 07:39 AM - Yaw oscillation, 701 (William Mileski)
12. 07:52 AM - Re: Wing Building (Gary Boothe)
13. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Wing Building (Michael Valentine)
14. 08:26 AM - Has WW been seen lately? (wscribb)
15. 08:26 AM - Corvair decision made. (Christopher Smith)
16. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine (Dan Lykowski)
17. 08:47 AM - Re: Corvair decision made. (Gary Boothe)
18. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Wing Building (Randy Bryant)
19. 09:08 AM - Re: Has WW been seen lately? (Robin Bellach)
20. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine (Paul Mulwitz)
21. 09:51 AM - Too many messages (Stanley Challgren)
22. 10:17 AM - Re: Wing Building (Jaybannist@cs.com)
23. 11:23 AM - Re: Has WW been seen lately? (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
24. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Re: Wing Building (Michael Valentine)
25. 12:04 PM - Re: Wing Building (Jaybannist@cs.com)
26. 12:26 PM - Re: Has WW been seen lately? (Robin Bellach)
27. 01:00 PM - Help on XL fuselage (Jaybannist@cs.com)
28. 02:41 PM - Re: Wing Building (Randy Bryant)
29. 02:41 PM - Re: Help on XL fuselage (Al Young)
30. 02:56 PM - Re: Yaw oscillation, 701 (Tommy Walker)
31. 02:59 PM - Pushing back a 601XL (Frank Derfler)
32. 03:09 PM - Re: Yaw oscillation, 701 (raymondj)
33. 03:30 PM - Re: Help on XL fuselage (Jaybannist@cs.com)
34. 04:08 PM - Re: Yaw oscillation, 701 (Ashcraft, Keith -AES)
35. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: broken distributor shaft (Dave)
36. 04:26 PM - Scratch build - pre drill holes before bending? (David Wright)
37. 05:26 PM - Re: Pushing back a 601XL (LarryMcFarland)
38. 05:30 PM - Re: Scratch build - pre drill holes before (Paul Mulwitz)
39. 05:43 PM - Re: Wing Building (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
40. 06:10 PM - Re: Pushing back a 601XL (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
41. 06:11 PM - Re: Wing Building (Gary Boothe)
42. 06:16 PM - Re: Pushing back a 601XL (Jim Pellien)
43. 08:03 PM - Re: Scratch build - pre drill holes before (David Barth)
44. 08:15 PM - Re: Scratch build - pre drill holes before bending? (N5SL)
45. 08:22 PM - Re: Rilsan Polyamide Tubing: How to heat bend? (norriedh)
46. 08:54 PM - Re: Getting started on CH601XL (Edward Moody II)
47. 08:54 PM - Re: Getting started on CH601XL (John Anderson)
48. 09:11 PM - Re: Re: Re: Wing Building (Edward Moody II)
49. 09:23 PM - Re: Wing Building (Edward Moody II)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon on Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
I have nevwr heard of a broken distributer shaft.
--- Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> With all due respect.....I just got a call today
> from our local DAR and
> guess what??? he asked me to go with him to pick up
> a RV-7 powered by a o-360
> with a rod thru the case. I am not knocking Lycoming
> here just pointing out that
> the mags didn't matter much in this case did they? I
> am getting sick of this
> discussion that is really going no where fast.
> Bottom line is that are the dual points truly
> redundant NO and the reason is
> because there is only one shaft that drives the cam
> to open the points, we
> know this and accept it but using armor plated wire
> and having a backup battery
> and a crawl space to get to the engine in flight
> wont help you if you have
> other issues. stop beating a dead horse or trying
> to convince us of what we
> are in agreement with already.
>
__________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Can we just lighten up? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
Is'n it the most BULL SHIT you ever saw in one pile.
--- Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli
> <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
>
> WOW!! Todays digest had 78 messages and most were
> long
> and angry. Take a breath, folks. Go out and rivet
> something. Remember, no fist fights at Oshkosh.
> Rich Vetterli
> 601XL/Corvair
> Tail complete, working on wings
> Check it out at www.geocities.com/stixx5a
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
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>
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__________________________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon on Corvair engine |
Wow! What happened?
Guys! Guys!
I'm sorry that I started this argument!
First of all, I'm the first to admit that I don't know much about aircraft.
That's why I am on this list. I don't even have an airframe yet.
As for the Corvair engine, Yes, that's what I intend to use. Not a defense,
just a fact. Why a Corvair? I had a '64 Corvair car in High School and the
price looked good. As I researched the engine, I became impressed with the
research & development that is being done on the Corvair / 601XL
combination. I also was impressed with the people doing it. What I learned
was that I was personally willing to accept the level of dependability it
will provide, which by the way, flight testing has proven to be very high.
If I follow the experts' advice, I can expect to have a powerful and
dependable power plant. The lower price allowed me to afford to build the
aircraft that all of us here love: A Chris Heintz design.
Don't get me wrong, Risk management is foremost in my mind. We must ALL
decide for our selves our own level of Risk. That's why I'm not building a
wood & fabric plane. It's not within MY PERSONAL level of risk. It's also
why I didn't make a third parachute jump back in the 70's.
My goal is to get in the air. I want to someday have the pride of saying "I
built this airplane!" it will also be cool to say "and the engine too!"
As for the other engines, I feel they ALL have their good points and bad
points. That's the glory of homebuilding! We ALL get to CHOOSE what we
build, hang up front and stick in the panel. And face it: most of us have to
consider the size of out wallets.
I don't care if you hang a cooling fan motor on some sticks and bed sheets
and painted it hot pink. (Let's not start a debate over colors :) If you
built it yourself, have the nerve to fly your creation and are proud of it,
I'm as happy FOR you as you are. I consider you a brother in the quest for
the sky.
I joined this group to learn as much as I could. I've posted a few questions
and answered some too. Thank you all for the great information I have
received. Let's not debate the choices of others or put down other products
because they weren't YOUR choice. Let's just try to be as helpful and
technically accurate as we can.
Now, with that said:
I mentioned the ignition system because it was relevant to the original
question; connecting a Dynon to a Corvair. The information that I gave about
a Tach possibly shorting out an Ignition system came from William Wynne. He
has the most experience with Corvair flight engines. That's why I plan to
follow his advice. Whatever engine you choose, you should seek out the
experts and consider their advice. Anyway, if you want to know more about
the flight Corvair ignition or anything else about the engine, check out
William's website. www.flycorvair.com <http://www.flycorvair.com/> . You
will get the correct flight tested information. With a quick search I found
some statements about tach hookup. Look about half way down for the question
entitled: "Tachometer coil pickup". http://www.flycorvair.com/email1204.html
Also check out this link a little past half way down. He shows a picture of
the tach pickup on his 601XL. http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar1005.html
After you read the above websites, and you feel that direct connection of a
tach is within your comfort zone of reliability, then go for it. It just
seems to me that if someone more qualified than me says not to do it, I
won't. If you don't know the options, you can't make an educated decision.
I think that's the intent of the original question; to get all the
information.
I put a very cheap tach on my mustang when I was in high school. Several
months later, it failed, shorted out and disabled the ignition system. I
don't want the same thing to happen to my airplane.
The debate is not coil/points ignition over magneto, that's a debate for the
Engine List. The point is if you use a dual ignition distributor on a
Corvair flight engine, the designer has tested and has said to keep the tach
completely divorced from the ignition. His research and testing strongly
suggests some sort of pickup to count teeth on the starter gear. I read
someplace that the MSD inductive pickup for tachometer might work but I
haven't found anyone who has tried it. I am not really qualified to suggest
a pickup that would be compatible with the Dynon units. I hope that by the
time I get ready for my panel someone has come up with a resolution to the
issue.
I hope I didn't offend anybody or sound too crabby,
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair cranks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Randy-
You're describing the guide bars, not the ejectors. They depend on
bushings for alignment and to cut down on wear.
You are right about the ejector pins and slides, though. TiN is used to
fill the surface imperfections of a part after grinding to cut down on
friction, thus surface wear. That's the concept behind a TiN drill bit. They
last longer not because they're tougher, but slipperier.
I have absolutely no idea how this applies to the Corvair cranks- you
just asked about TiN.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:11 PM
> I'm not so sure that nitriding will eliminate...or even help the Corvair
> crank breaking problem...
>
> I'm not an expert on nitriding, but I've been around it a little in my
> time... I used to machine plastic ejection molds and tooling dies...
> There
> are what's called "ejector pins" that the tops of mold and dies slide up
> and
> down on to make the 2 halves meet properly...
> If you can imagine a 4 legged table sitting on it's top with the 4 legs in
> the air, then cut a piece of plywood with 4 holes in it to fit over the
> legs
> and slide up and down, this is what it's equivalent to... The legs would
> be
> the ejector pins. (I've attached a picture of a MUD Die) We used to have
> these pins nitrided all the time... Nitriding, at least what the
> nitriders
> told me, is that it doesn't make the part more resistant to breakage, but
> it
> makes it tougher from a wear perspective... I know on molds and dies, the
> top half sliding up and down through every cycle on the ejector pins, they
> would wear, then the 2 halves wouldn't match up right...they'd
> mis-match...
> We'd nitride these pins to make their outer surface harder to resist
> wear...they'd still break as easily as they were before nitriding, if side
> load was applied, their outter surface just didn't wear as fast... You
> can
> hit a nitrided part with a file and the file will just bounce off it...but
> keep on filing, and in a few thousandths, you'll be through the nitriding
> and the steel will be soft as ever... SO,
> from my limited experience and knowledge of nitriding, if I was having a
> crankshaft that was wearing out quickly on the bearing journals, nitriding
> seems like a good cure..but to use as a cure for breakage from side load,
> it
> just doesn't make sense to me... In my thinking, you'd need a flange and
> a
> thrust bearing to handle side loads... Anyone out there care to elaborate
> more on nitriding??
>
> Maybe I'm way off base here... Don't know... I will say that at this time
> I
> plan on using a WW Corvair conversion in my XL when the time comes... Good
> lord, I'm just working on the wings right now! ;-)
>
> Just my .02 worth...
>
> Randy
> XL Wings - Plans Only
> http://www.n344rb.com
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 4:21 PM
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>>
>> William Wynne's own crank had stress fractures in it. This was a standard
>> conversion. I'm sure that's what convinced him to recommend nitriding the
>> cranks. I did not have a prop extension, or horsepower upgrade and yet
>> my
>> crank broke. My crank had not been nitrided either, but then I had never
>> heard of a crank failure on a Corvair until about a year or so ago. I
>> figured since they have been flying Corvairs on Peitenpols since the
>> 60's,
>> I didn't see any rush. Since my crank break, I have come to realize that
>> we
>> have been flying these engines much harder than the Pietenpol guys do.
>>
>> Possible reasons for my crank break:
>> Case being "sloppy". I wish I had the measuring equipment to verify this
>> one way or another.
>> Prop out of balance. Maybe. I know I'm going to get it dynamically
>> balanced when I get it flying again.
>> Max performance takeoffs. Nearly every flight began that way.
>> Cruising at 3100 rpm or higher. I almost always pushed the engine hard. I
>> think WW usually cruises at 2900 rpm.
>>
>> I'm not completely convinced about the nitriding, because it is a
>> hardening
>> process. If one where to pose the question of whether or not to
>> substitute
>> grade 8 bolts for AN bolts, the argument would normally be that grade 8
>> have been hardened and are more brittle than an AN bolt . It would not be
>> able to take the bending moment that an AN bolt could. For some reason it
>> must be different on a crankshaft, but I don't understand why. However,
>> since the experts have determined that nitriding is the way to go, I will
>> follow.
>>
>> Something we all need to do regardless of the engine we fly behind: When
>> you hear of a crash, engine failure, or other incident, play the scenario
>> out in your mind. Maybe even while sitting in the cockpit. Plan what you
>> could do to survive the situation. Look at your plane and see if you
>> need
>> to change something to keep the same problem from occurring to you. Maybe
>> inspect the parts that may have contributed to the incident.
>>
>> Randy Stout
>> n282rs"at"earthlink.net
>> www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>>
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: Tom Farin <tfarin@farin.com>
>>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>> Date: 7/7/2006 8:34:40 AM
>>> Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Digest: 78 Msgs - 07/06/06
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> The most widely talked about issue relating to Corvair engines in the
>> last two years is the four recent crank failures. Keep in mind the
>> Corvair
>> engine has been flying in aircraft since the Corvair was introduced in
>> 1960. There was a tremendous amount of dicussion at Corvaircraft, on
>> William Wynne's site, and at Mark Langsford's site. Mark had one of the
>> four failures. The consensus seems to be that in all four cases the
>> installation deviated from the instructions in Wynne's manual - prop
>> extensions, horsepower upgrades, etc. - in a way that placed additional
>> stress on the crank. In spite of that both Mark and William put
>> substantial time into examining the causes of the failures. In spite of
>> the fact there are no known crank failures on installations per the WW
>> manual, WW is now recommending the crank be Nitrided to give it
>> additional
>> strength. In spite of a harrowing experience, Mark is again flying with
>> a
>> stock WW conversion.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: don't archive!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Tommy-
You left out the Rolls of electrics- Paul Reed Smith. Now, I'm getting
out while the getting's good.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:08 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> My first guitar cost $1.50. It was a Kay with a little problem with the
> body. I used a knife and gently cut the back off and then used damp
> cloths to soften the front and put it back into shape. I traded up to a
> well worn Gretsch and then to a Les Paul. I've owned several Fenders over
> the years. I think the Les Paul Deluxe is the best guitar ever made.
>
> There are Gibson's and there are guitars. (Sorry, no Corvairs
> (Epiphones), Rotaxes(Rickenbackers), Subaru's (Yahamas), VW's (Peavey)).
> My apologies in advance to those who are offended by non-aviation posts.
>
> These days, with my reduced hearing capacity, I get by with an old Elkhart
> (sp) Upright Bass.
>
> When I'm down around Rayne, Lafayette and Crowley I listen to the bands at
> some of the Cajun joints. One of the best meals I had was Wild Duck Gumbo
> at the Acadia Parish School Board maintenance shop............
>
> So there, I bit, er... gummed.
>
> Absolutely, Positively, Mr Bowes.... Do Not Archive
>
> Tommy Walker in Lower Slobovia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> dredmoody@cox.net
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 2:15 PM
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Not when I do them! You just need a nicer dentist.
>
> Ed
>
> PS: What? No bite on the guitar controversy? I am depressed.
>
> ---- Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>>
>> A short work week after a pleasant holiday weekend, nice weather, its
>> Friday, the Corvair discussion has lost some heat in the last few hours,
>> the next weekend is just around the corner......then Ed has to mention a
>> root canal.
>>
>> Take that back, Ed! That's downright unpleasant!
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
I may be wrong but as best I can tell, the swagging can take place
outside the wing, then thread the cables through the lightening holes
etc.
Any reason that won't work?
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Building
Personally, I would rig the bellcrank cables before colsing the wing.
It is probably possible to to the cable swaging through the access
panel, but I felt that it would be a real tight squeeze and a real
hassle.
Jay in Dallas
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Getting started on CH601XL |
Where in south Texas Wade? I'm in southwest Louisiana.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Getting started on CH601XL
Hello Group ,first thanks for the comments/advise on my first post .
At that time I had planed to buy a kit and pick it up at the factory in
my travel trailer .I have since decided to plans build the 601XL ,this
may be optimistic thinking for a 72 year old .However as far as I know I
have no medical problems that I am aware of that would hinder my
completion .I got the plans a couple of weeks ago and I have completed
the wood forms for the tail section ,flaps and ailerons .Today I built
my 4' X 12' table and made my first aluminum order from Aircraft Spruce
for about half of the airframe .As I said in my earlier post I have been
flying a Cont. 0200 powered Soneria for the past 29 years along with my
trusty Tripacer .I read every post on this site and I am very pleased to
belong to such a great group ,so please bear with me if some of my
questions seem too simple . Wade Jones ,Plans # 6464 , South Texas
Message 8
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| Subject: | weight of engines? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
The 100 hp Rotax 912 equipped Zodiac XL SLSA that I have for sale has a 591
lb useful load, for comparison.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:59 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
The AMD Zodiac XL claims 520 pounds useful load. It uses the
Continental O-200 rather than the Lycoming O-235.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
>Isn't the corvair engine about the same weight as a continental
>0-200? Wouldn't both reduce the useful load of the 601xl ? What is
>the useful load of the factory built LSA with the 0-235 in it? Just
>courious. Thanks. Jeff; waiting on wing kit.
-
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a
thimble. It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the wing, the
bellcrank must be removed from its bracket. I suppose it would be easier to
reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the wing, which
means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through the access hole.
While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing open.
Jay in Dallas
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Getting started on CH601XL |
Hi Ed ,I am located in Brazoria 50mi South of Houston .I will look up
Rayne La. and see how close we are .As you can tell by my post I am just
getting started ,however when I start a project I put many hours a day
into it. My hanger is in my back yard and I am retired . Wade Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Moody II
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting started on CH601XL
Where in south Texas Wade? I'm in southwest Louisiana.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Getting started on CH601XL
Hello Group ,first thanks for the comments/advise on my first post .
At that time I had planed to buy a kit and pick it up at the factory in
my travel trailer .I have since decided to plans build the 601XL ,this
may be optimistic thinking for a 72 year old .However as far as I know I
have no medical problems that I am aware of that would hinder my
completion .I got the plans a couple of weeks ago and I have completed
the wood forms for the tail section ,flaps and ailerons .Today I built
my 4' X 12' table and made my first aluminum order from Aircraft Spruce
for about half of the airframe .As I said in my earlier post I have been
flying a Cont. 0200 powered Soneria for the past 29 years along with my
trusty Tripacer .I read every post on this site and I am very pleased to
belong to such a great group ,so please bear with me if some of my
questions seem too simple . Wade Jones ,Plans # 6464 , South Texas
Message 11
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| Subject: | Yaw oscillation, 701 |
Hi all,
I just sort of solved an odd problem I was having with my CH701 currentl
y under flight test with 14 hours on it, and hope this may serve someone
else at some point.
At every take-off I was getting an oscillation in the yaw axis, a few se
conds after liftoff, for anywhwere from 2 to 5 seconds, which went away
if a) I continued climb normally, b) I dropped from 5450 rpm (max) to 5
200 or lower. It is felt in the whole airframe, and the cowl looked like
it was visibly displacing a half inch as the aircraft "wobbled" in yaw
at approximately 3 or 4 cycles per sec. Airspeed is accelerating betwee
n 50 and 60 mph at this time. The oscillation is mild, more annoying tha
n concerning.
It could not be stopped by pitching up or down slightly, or changing rud
der position slightly. No perceptible vibration is felt in the pedals.
My rudder cable tension seems possibly slightly on the high side, and I
also tried pressing on both pedals during climb, with no change.
After adding another pair of dzus fittings at the cowling at the bottom
of the firewall, verifying blade pitch and minimum vibration, without an
y change, it occurred to me that the main gear might be out of balance,
and the wheels are spinning down from a 40+mph rpm during this time. Alt
hough I don't feel any out-of-roundness or vibration from the gear durin
g the takeoff run, I tried pressing the brakes immediately after liftoff
.
I made four takeoffs today pressing the brakes after liftoff, and got no
ne of the oscillation, which has been very consistent prior to today.
So either the wheels and tires spinning down were the culprit, or I am w
rong about my rudder tension, and by braking I'm adding more rudder cabl
e tension (through slop and flexure of the nose-wheel steering hardware)
than I did before when trying this by pushing only on the pedals (no br
akes). I'll try more with pedal pressure without brakes again, too, to s
ee if I can figure out what's happening. But at least it's under contro
l for now.
Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but it seemed like there was a lot
to explain for anyone interested.
Bill Mileski
N701MW
Ledyard, CT
Message 12
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Ed / Jay,
If you're like me, when you're in wing building mode you don't want to think
about swaging cables, hooking up lights, etc. You want to see that wing get
built! Just thread a length of 1/8" braided nylon rope thru the holes and
tie it off to the bell crank. It will easy to attach the swaged end to the
rope and pull thru at a later time and life will be good.
Of course, it you wish to do the connects now, have at it.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a
thimble. It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the wing,
the bellcrank must be removed from its bracket. I suppose it would be
easier to reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the
wing, which means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through
the access hole. While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do
with the wing open.
Jay in Dallas
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
On 7/8/06, Jaybannist@cs.com <Jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:
> Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a
> thimble.
horsecshoe-type connector (for lack of a proper word) and the
connector actually goes through the bellcrank. 1) Is that correct,
and 2) Does that make it easier to rig the cables later through the
access hole?
Michael
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Has WW been seen lately? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "wscribb" <wscribb@centurytel.net>
Anybody know where William is hiding? I have been trying to contact him
over the past month via email and telephone. He isn't returning telephone
calls or answering email. Anybody have another phone number for him
(direct), other than the 478-0396?
I placed an order in Sept 2005, and am still waiting for my Stainless
Intake, Stainless Exhaust and Spinner Bulkhead. This is terrible customer
service.
TIA
Bill Cribb
601XL / Corvair (still waiting for parts)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Corvair decision made. |
What I think I'm going to do is buy the WW manual & a core engine....I
planing on a Jabiru 3300 but I am 3 to 5 years away from needing it. So, if
in the mean time the Corvair is proven that it was a strong engine all along
I'll be ready to go with it.
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon on Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737@yahoo.com>
Dave,
Any pickup that will output a digital pulse will work
with the Dynon unit. I have spoken with WW a couple of
times and I know his opinion on glass. He makes some
valid points about being able to short to the ignition
etc. But, as an experimenter I find this to be a
challenge that needs to be solved, not given up on
because the expert said so. He became the expert by
experimenting and by working hard.
I will be presenting this challenge to my fellow
engineers on Monday to see what we can come up with to
isolate the tach from the Dynon. I can't promise any
results but I will be pushing the issue since I plan
on having an all Dynon panel in my Corvair powered XL.
(With a few backups of course.)
Again, if you guys are really interested in using a
Dynon, the best way to get support for it is to call
and to e-mail. It currently is not officially
supported because there just isn't a lot of demand for
it. We are willing to help out anyone who wants to
give it a go.
Thanks
Dan Lykowski
Software Engineer
Dynon Avionics
--- Dave Thompson <dave.thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
> Wow! What happened?
>
>
>
> Guys! Guys!
>
>
>
> I'm sorry that I started this argument!
>
>
>
> First of all, I'm the first to admit that I don't
> know much about aircraft.
> That's why I am on this list. I don't even have an
> airframe yet.
>
>
>
> As for the Corvair engine, Yes, that's what I intend
> to use. Not a defense,
> just a fact. Why a Corvair? I had a '64 Corvair car
> in High School and the
> price looked good. As I researched the engine, I
> became impressed with the
> research & development that is being done on the
> Corvair / 601XL
> combination. I also was impressed with the people
> doing it. What I learned
> was that I was personally willing to accept the
> level of dependability it
> will provide, which by the way, flight testing has
> proven to be very high.
> If I follow the experts' advice, I can expect to
> have a powerful and
> dependable power plant. The lower price allowed me
> to afford to build the
> aircraft that all of us here love: A Chris Heintz
> design.
>
>
>
> Don't get me wrong, Risk management is foremost in
> my mind. We must ALL
> decide for our selves our own level of Risk. That's
> why I'm not building a
> wood & fabric plane. It's not within MY PERSONAL
> level of risk. It's also
> why I didn't make a third parachute jump back in the
> 70's.
>
>
>
> My goal is to get in the air. I want to someday have
> the pride of saying "I
> built this airplane!" it will also be cool to say
> "and the engine too!"
>
>
>
> As for the other engines, I feel they ALL have their
> good points and bad
> points. That's the glory of homebuilding! We ALL get
> to CHOOSE what we
> build, hang up front and stick in the panel. And
> face it: most of us have to
> consider the size of out wallets.
>
>
>
> I don't care if you hang a cooling fan motor on some
> sticks and bed sheets
> and painted it hot pink. (Let's not start a debate
> over colors :) If you
> built it yourself, have the nerve to fly your
> creation and are proud of it,
> I'm as happy FOR you as you are. I consider you a
> brother in the quest for
> the sky.
>
>
>
> I joined this group to learn as much as I could.
> I've posted a few questions
> and answered some too. Thank you all for the great
> information I have
> received. Let's not debate the choices of others or
> put down other products
> because they weren't YOUR choice. Let's just try to
> be as helpful and
> technically accurate as we can.
>
>
>
> Now, with that said:
>
>
>
> I mentioned the ignition system because it was
> relevant to the original
> question; connecting a Dynon to a Corvair. The
> information that I gave about
> a Tach possibly shorting out an Ignition system came
> from William Wynne. He
> has the most experience with Corvair flight engines.
> That's why I plan to
> follow his advice. Whatever engine you choose, you
> should seek out the
> experts and consider their advice. Anyway, if you
> want to know more about
> the flight Corvair ignition or anything else about
> the engine, check out
> William's website. www.flycorvair.com
> <http://www.flycorvair.com/> . You
> will get the correct flight tested information. With
> a quick search I found
> some statements about tach hookup. Look about half
> way down for the question
> entitled: "Tachometer coil pickup".
> http://www.flycorvair.com/email1204.html
> Also check out this link a little past half way
> down. He shows a picture of
> the tach pickup on his 601XL.
> http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar1005.html
>
>
>
> After you read the above websites, and you feel that
> direct connection of a
> tach is within your comfort zone of reliability,
> then go for it. It just
> seems to me that if someone more qualified than me
> says not to do it, I
> won't. If you don't know the options, you can't
> make an educated decision.
> I think that's the intent of the original question;
> to get all the
> information.
>
>
>
> I put a very cheap tach on my mustang when I was in
> high school. Several
> months later, it failed, shorted out and disabled
> the ignition system. I
> don't want the same thing to happen to my airplane.
>
>
>
> The debate is not coil/points ignition over magneto,
> that's a debate for the
> Engine List. The point is if you use a dual ignition
> distributor on a
> Corvair flight engine, the designer has tested and
> has said to keep the tach
> completely divorced from the ignition. His research
> and testing strongly
> suggests some sort of pickup to count teeth on the
> starter gear. I read
> someplace that the MSD inductive pickup for
> tachometer might work but I
> haven't found anyone who has tried it. I am not
> really qualified to suggest
> a pickup that would be compatible with the Dynon
> units. I hope that by the
> time I get ready for my panel someone has come up
> with a resolution to the
> issue.
>
>
>
> I hope I didn't offend anybody or sound too crabby,
>
>
>
> Dave Thompson
>
> dave.thompson@verizon.net
>
> Do not archive
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Corvair decision made. |
Chris,
A wise decision. Though my Corvair engine is built, I too am a couple years
from flying and waiting to see how the crank nitriding issue gets resolved
thru further testing and flight testing. Plus, there may be other
improvements by then.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Do not archive
What I think I'm going to do is buy the WW manual & a core engine....I
planing on a Jabiru 3300 but I am 3 to 5 years away from needing it. So, if
in the mean time the Corvair is proven that it was a strong engine all along
I'll be ready to go with it.
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
The thimble goes inside the "loop" that the cable makes. There is an item,
I think you are referring to as a "horseshoe type connector" that is called
a cable shackle that actually gets bolted to the aileron bellcrank that the
cable and thimble are "looped" through...
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:01 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine"
> <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
>
> On 7/8/06, Jaybannist@cs.com <Jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:
>> Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with
>> a
>> thimble.
>
> horsecshoe-type connector (for lack of a proper word) and the
> connector actually goes through the bellcrank. 1) Is that correct,
> and 2) Does that make it easier to rig the cables later through the
> access hole?
>
> Michael
>
> do not archive
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Has WW been seen lately? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
I've been wanting those same parts for over a year, but they have never
showed up on the website price list, so I assumed not yet available. How did
you arrange to get on the waiting list at what prices?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 10:25 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "wscribb" <wscribb@centurytel.net>
>
> Anybody know where William is hiding? I have been trying to contact him
> over the past month via email and telephone. He isn't returning telephone
> calls or answering email. Anybody have another phone number for him
> (direct), other than the 478-0396?
>
> I placed an order in Sept 2005, and am still waiting for my Stainless
> Intake, Stainless Exhaust and Spinner Bulkhead. This is terrible customer
> service.
>
> TIA
>
> Bill Cribb
> 601XL / Corvair (still waiting for parts)
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon on Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Dan,
I don't know how the Dynon is typically hooked up to ignition parts
to get tachometer function. However, I do know you can get a really
ugly signal by wrapping a few turns of wire around a spark plug wire
to pick up an A/C signal. The real problem from that point is to
condition the signal to be compatible with the Dynon input. This
will probably require an appropriate diode to rectify and clamp the
signal and a simple resistor divider to reduce the voltage. It may
be necessary to add an amplifier (op-amp possibly) to further
condition the signal and make a nice square digital wave form. It
would help to have the Dynon input circuit diagram and any
specification they may have for the input signal.
Since the coupling between the circuit described above and the
ignition is inductive I don't see how it could possible impact the
ignition function. I suppose it could overload it if you draw too
much power from the spark plug wire, but you wouldn't need more than
a tiny amount of the energy in the spark plug wire to make your signal.
This all requires a decent oscilloscope and a little electronics
design knowledge. If you don't properly condition the signal you run
the risk of damaging the Dynon input circuit.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
Recovering digital circuit designer
At 08:33 AM 7/8/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737@yahoo.com>
>
>Dave,
> Any pickup that will output a digital pulse will work
>with the Dynon unit. I have spoken with WW a couple of
>times and I know his opinion on glass. He makes some
>valid points about being able to short to the ignition
>etc. But, as an experimenter I find this to be a
>challenge that needs to be solved, not given up on
>because the expert said so. He became the expert by
>experimenting and by working hard.
> I will be presenting this challenge to my fellow
>engineers on Monday to see what we can come up with to
>isolate the tach from the Dynon. I can't promise any
>results but I will be pushing the issue since I plan
>on having an all Dynon panel in my Corvair powered XL.
>(With a few backups of course.)
> Again, if you guys are really interested in using a
>Dynon, the best way to get support for it is to call
>and to e-mail. It currently is not officially
>supported because there just isn't a lot of demand for
>it. We are willing to help out anyone who wants to
>give it a go.
>
>Thanks
>Dan Lykowski
>Software Engineer
>Dynon Avionics
>
>--
>
-
Message 21
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| Subject: | Too many messages |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Wise man said: "WOW!! Todays digest had 78 messages and most were long
and angry. Take a breath, folks. Go out and rivet
something."
AMEN
Stan-Tired of deleting angry messages
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
Michael - IMHO, no. Try it once. The cable is stiff and "springy." the
cable must be snug to the thimble and the Nicopress must be snug to the thimble.
All this must be held firmly, assuring the proper cable end extension, while
crimping the Nicopress. It definitely requires two hands, if not three, and as
much room as possible, for the Nicopress tool, elbows, etc.
Jay in Dallas
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Has WW been seen lately? |
I agree I tried leaving messages but he never answered. Emails went
unanswered....I wonder if I started duplacating his parts and selling them how
fast
he would get in touch.
He needs to hire someone to take messages for him.
Jeff
601 XL going to the hanger
do not archive
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
Thanks Randy and Jay -
I am getting close to closing up my first wing and, like Gary, I don't
really want to do this at the moment. Perhaps a couple more questions
will help me understand more of what is at stake:
1) Can't you make the loop in the cable outside of the wing at any
time, any place?
If so, then you can just feed the cable into the closed wing with a
1x2 or something.
2) Can't you then slide the pre-made loop into the cable shackle and
just bolt the shackle to the bellcrank through the access hole?
Then the only thing you are actually doing through the access hole is
tightening the shackle bolts.
Am I still missing something? **And, why doesn't Zenith have any
drawings/guides/instructions on these steps?**
Thanks, Michael
do not archive
On 7/8/06, Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
>
> The thimble goes inside the "loop" that the cable makes. There is an item,
> I think you are referring to as a "horseshoe type connector" that is called
> a cable shackle that actually gets bolted to the aileron bellcrank that the
> cable and thimble are "looped" through...
>
> Randy
> Do Not Archive
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
Randy, I don't think the gap in the shackle will open enough to get the cable
loop & thimble in after they are swaged. As I remember, the loop & thimble
had to be formed on the shackle while crimping the Nicopress sleeve. And, yes,
this could be done after the wing is closed, the cable threaded thru the
lightening holes and the shackels bolted to the bellcrank. This is just vastly
easier to do with the wing open, and in fact, easier with the bellcrank out of
the wing.
Jay in Dallas
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Has WW been seen lately? |
They may be concentrating on finishing the 701/Vair to fly it to
Oshkosh. Any one hear how that project is progressing?
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Has WW been seen lately?
I agree I tried leaving messages but he never answered. Emails went
unanswered....I wonder if I started duplacating his parts and selling
them how fast he would get in touch.
He needs to hire someone to take messages for him.
Jeff
601 XL going to the hanger
do not archive
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Help on XL fuselage |
To those who have "been there, done that"
I am working on the forward fuselage. I have installed the crimped vertical
angle that intersects with the back side of the heel support 6B8-8; and the
first and second horizontal angles that are between the vertical angle and the
firewall. The Photo Guide shows the third (lowest) horizontal angel to be
installed even with the turned-up cabin floor, with the outstanding leg to the
bottom. This covers up the pre-drilled holes in the turned up part of the cabin
floor. The Photo Guide says to drill the holes from the inside, but I can't
now see the pre-drilled holes with the horizontal angle in the way. I
considered drilling the holes through the turned up part of the cabin floor into
the
side skin, clecoing them, then back drilling from the outside through the
angle. But I think the clecoes would be in the way. Am I missing something? How
do
you do this operation?
I also sent this to ZAC, but probably won't hear from them for several days
and I would like to keep moving.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
Yeah, I don't think it will either, I was just responding to the message
that left out the shackle... What I was reading, was to attach the
cable/thimble directly to the bellcrank... I was just giving a basic
order of bellcrank, shackle, then the cable actually attaches to the
shackle, not directly to the bellcrank...
Thanks!
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Building
Randy, I don't think the gap in the shackle will open enough to get
the cable loop & thimble in after they are swaged. As I remember, the
loop & thimble had to be formed on the shackle while crimping the
Nicopress sleeve. And, yes, this could be done after the wing is
closed, the cable threaded thru the lightening holes and the shackels
bolted to the bellcrank. This is just vastly easier to do with the wing
open, and in fact, easier with the bellcrank out of the wing.
Jay in Dallas
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Help on XL fuselage |
Jay- I think you are on the right track. I cannot speak from direct
experience since my floor was not predrilled. I would think that you
should drill the floor to the side skin using the predrilled holes,
clecoe the two pieces together from the outside. I would get my
hortizontal angle cut to the correct length, and pre drill one hole in
the end at the correct 10 mm distance from the end and clecoe it to the
corresponding hole you have drilled thru the floor and side skin.
Remove the clecoes from the pre-drilled holes except for the end one and
mark the other end of the l angle where the other end predrilled hole
is, drill a hole in the l angle and clecoe it. You have both ends
clecoed now. Put a few clecoes back into the side skin and the floor
predrilled holes to keep them lined up and drill from the outside one at
a time thru the holes you already drilled, clecoing the three surfaces
as you go.
Another way might be to cut your horizontal angle to the correct length,
place it back of the floor predrilled holes. and drill thru the
predrilled holes into the angle clecoing as you go. You could then put
the angle in front of the floor and cleco it to the floor. Then use
these holes to drill thru the side skin. Good luck-
Al Young
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 2:58 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Help on XL fuselage
To those who have "been there, done that"
I am working on the forward fuselage. I have installed the crimped
vertical angle that intersects with the back side of the heel support
6B8-8; and the first and second horizontal angles that are between the
vertical angle and the firewall. The Photo Guide shows the third
(lowest) horizontal angel to be installed even with the turned-up cabin
floor, with the outstanding leg to the bottom. This covers up the
pre-drilled holes in the turned up part of the cabin floor. The Photo
Guide says to drill the holes from the inside, but I can't now see the
pre-drilled holes with the horizontal angle in the way. I considered
drilling the holes through the turned up part of the cabin floor into
the side skin, clecoing them, then back drilling from the outside
through the angle. But I think the clecoes would be in the way. Am I
missing something? How do you do this operation?
I also sent this to ZAC, but probably won't hear from them for several
days and I would like to keep moving.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Yaw oscillation, 701 |
Bill,
Thanks, that is one for me to file in my list of things to know about. I
had not considered that happening........
Boy, that first lift off is going to be exciting.......
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Mileski
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:39 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Yaw oscillation, 701
Hi all,
I just sort of solved an odd problem I was having with my CH701 currently
under flight test with 14 hours on it, and hope this may serve someone else
at some point.
At every take-off I was getting an oscillation in the yaw axis, a few
seconds after liftoff, for anywhwere from 2 to 5 seconds, which went away if
a) I continued climb normally, b) I dropped from 5450 rpm (max) to 5200 or
lower. It is felt in the whole airframe, and the cowl looked like it was
visibly displacing a half inch as the aircraft "wobbled" in yaw at
approximately 3 or 4 cycles per sec. Airspeed is accelerating between 50
and 60 mph at this time. The oscillation is mild, more annoying than
concerning.
It could not be stopped by pitching up or down slightly, or changing
rudder position slightly. No perceptible vibration is felt in the pedals.
My rudder cable tension seems possibly slightly on the high side, and I also
tried pressing on both pedals during climb, with no change.
After adding another pair of dzus fittings at the cowling at the bottom of
the firewall, verifying blade pitch and minimum vibration, without any
change, it occurred to me that the main gear might be out of balance, and
the wheels are spinning down from a 40+mph rpm during this time. Although I
don't feel any out-of-roundness or vibration from the gear during the
takeoff run, I tried pressing the brakes immediately after liftoff.
I made four takeoffs today pressing the brakes after liftoff, and got none
of the oscillation, which has been very consistent prior to today.
So either the wheels and tires spinning down were the culprit, or I am
wrong about my rudder tension, and by braking I'm adding more rudder cable
tension (through slop and flexure of the nose-wheel steering hardware) than
I did before when trying this by pushing only on the pedals (no brakes).
I'll try more with pedal pressure without brakes again, too, to see if I can
figure out what's happening. But at least it's under control for now.
Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but it seemed like there was a lot
to explain for anyone interested.
Bill Mileski
N701MW
Ledyard, CT
Message 31
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| Subject: | Pushing back a 601XL |
I'm considering buying an AMD-manufactured Zodiak 601XL. (Yes, I know the
Continental isn't as light as the Rotax or as smooth as the Jabaru, but my
local A&Ps don't acknowledge the legitimacy of either one --Hey, it's what
I've got to work with!) I went for a ride yesterday and enjoyed it, but
now the simple "questions that I should have asked" come up..
1. Tow bar? The two of us pushed the Zodiak back into the hanger by hand
without a tow bar. The owner "steered" by pushing down the tail. I will
always have to push my airplane back and usually by myself. Is there an
appropriate tow bar for pushing back and where does it attach?
2. Tie down? Any hard-earned pieces of 601 XL tie-down wisdom out there?
Aileron locks? Any extra places to grab onto? The tail tie-down doesn't
look too strong, is it possible to "tow" the airplane into a hangar using
the tail tie-down?
3. Canopy opening.. is there a pattern somewhere for a block of wood or PVC
or something that holds the canopy open while taxiing? Somebody must have
designed a nice "clamp on" holder-opener!
Thanks! -- FJD
--
Frank Derfler
See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz
See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Yaw oscillation, 701 |
William,
I had a similar experience in a 172 I did some training in. It only
seemed to happen when I would do touch-n-gos.Too much speed on the runway
before "going" again. :) When I asked the CFI about the vibration he knew
exactly what it was and put on the brakes. I guess he was so used to it he
didn't notice it any more. In my case it was only a vibration and didn't
really have any impact on flight characteristics.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
Corvair core acquired.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Mileski
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:39 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Yaw oscillation, 701
Hi all,
I just sort of solved an odd problem I was having with my CH701 currently
under flight test with 14 hours on it, and hope this may serve someone else
at some point.
At every take-off I was getting an oscillation in the yaw axis, a few
seconds after liftoff, for anywhwere from 2 to 5 seconds, which went away if
a) I continued climb normally, b) I dropped from 5450 rpm (max) to 5200 or
lower. It is felt in the whole airframe, and the cowl looked like it was
visibly displacing a half inch as the aircraft "wobbled" in yaw at
approximately 3 or 4 cycles per sec. Airspeed is accelerating between 50
and 60 mph at this time. The oscillation is mild, more annoying than
concerning.
It could not be stopped by pitching up or down slightly, or changing
rudder position slightly. No perceptible vibration is felt in the pedals.
My rudder cable tension seems possibly slightly on the high side, and I also
tried pressing on both pedals during climb, with no change.
After adding another pair of dzus fittings at the cowling at the bottom of
the firewall, verifying blade pitch and minimum vibration, without any
change, it occurred to me that the main gear might be out of balance, and
the wheels are spinning down from a 40+mph rpm during this time. Although I
don't feel any out-of-roundness or vibration from the gear during the
takeoff run, I tried pressing the brakes immediately after liftoff.
I made four takeoffs today pressing the brakes after liftoff, and got none
of the oscillation, which has been very consistent prior to today.
So either the wheels and tires spinning down were the culprit, or I am
wrong about my rudder tension, and by braking I'm adding more rudder cable
tension (through slop and flexure of the nose-wheel steering hardware) than
I did before when trying this by pushing only on the pedals (no brakes).
I'll try more with pedal pressure without brakes again, too, to see if I can
figure out what's happening. But at least it's under control for now.
Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but it seemed like there was a lot
to explain for anyone interested.
Bill Mileski
N701MW
Ledyard, CT
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Help on XL fuselage |
Al, Thanks for the reply. The first method might work. I would still be
concerned about the "stand-off" effect of the clecoes. I thought about the
second method, but the angle would have to be reversed, end for end after drilling
and the pre-drilled holes would have to be symmetrical. I don't trust the
symmetry of ZAC's holes.
If there were no pre-drilled holes, this would be a "no brainer", but in
trying to make it easier for the kit builder, ZAC has created a real problem.
Thanks - Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Yaw oscillation, 701 |
All, I guess I thought everybody was taught that way. That was one of
the first things I learned when I was flying, was to tap the brakes to
stop the tires from spinning.
Keith
CH701 8% scratch -- no engine decision yet, it keeps down on the
negative e-mails:)
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
*************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sat 7/8/2006 4:07 PM
William,
I had a similar experience in a 172 I did some training in. It only
seemed to happen when I would do touch-n-gos.Too much speed on the
runway
before "going" again. :) When I asked the CFI about the vibration he
knew
exactly what it was and put on the brakes. I guess he was so used to it
he
didn't notice it any more. In my case it was only a vibration and didn't
really have any impact on flight characteristics.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
Corvair core acquired.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William
Mileski
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:39 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Yaw oscillation, 701
Hi all,
I just sort of solved an odd problem I was having with my CH701
currently
under flight test with 14 hours on it, and hope this may serve someone
else
at some point.
At every take-off I was getting an oscillation in the yaw axis, a few
seconds after liftoff, for anywhwere from 2 to 5 seconds, which went
away if
a) I continued climb normally, b) I dropped from 5450 rpm (max) to 5200
or
lower. It is felt in the whole airframe, and the cowl looked like it was
visibly displacing a half inch as the aircraft "wobbled" in yaw at
approximately 3 or 4 cycles per sec. Airspeed is accelerating between
50
and 60 mph at this time. The oscillation is mild, more annoying than
concerning.
It could not be stopped by pitching up or down slightly, or changing
rudder position slightly. No perceptible vibration is felt in the
pedals.
My rudder cable tension seems possibly slightly on the high side, and I
also
tried pressing on both pedals during climb, with no change.
After adding another pair of dzus fittings at the cowling at the
bottom of
the firewall, verifying blade pitch and minimum vibration, without any
change, it occurred to me that the main gear might be out of balance,
and
the wheels are spinning down from a 40+mph rpm during this time.
Although I
don't feel any out-of-roundness or vibration from the gear during the
takeoff run, I tried pressing the brakes immediately after liftoff.
I made four takeoffs today pressing the brakes after liftoff, and got
none
of the oscillation, which has been very consistent prior to today.
So either the wheels and tires spinning down were the culprit, or I am
wrong about my rudder tension, and by braking I'm adding more rudder
cable
tension (through slop and flexure of the nose-wheel steering hardware)
than
I did before when trying this by pushing only on the pedals (no brakes).
I'll try more with pedal pressure without brakes again, too, to see if I
can
figure out what's happening. But at least it's under control for now.
Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but it seemed like there was a
lot
to explain for anyone interested.
Bill Mileski
N701MW
Ledyard, CT
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: broken distributor shaft |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
It's kind of like the family member that is sleeping with his sister, nobody
likes to talk about it.
It's humor folks, lighten up!
do not archive
--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
I have nevwr heard of a broken distributer shaft.
-
Message 36
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| Subject: | Scratch build - pre drill holes before bending? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Wright <davidhwright@mac.com>
All
First posting from a newbie scratch builder
I have built the tail for my 601XL from a kit from CZAW and have
decided to scratch build the rest of the plane.
I have taken delivery of the sheet aluminium and am now in the
process of marking out the skins for the flaps and ailerons.
My questions is for those who have already done this is - should I
pre-drill the holes while the aluminium is still flat or should I
wait until it is bent?
Any suggestions gratefully received
Dave
601XL plans built - wings - England
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Pushing back a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Frank,
I've made a tow bar attachment for the front fork that doubles as a stop
limit if the bungee gives way. There's a drawing of it on my site
if you'd like to make it yourself. I've also got several of them if
you're interested for $35.00. See link below,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/travelstop.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/travel-stop-&-ground-handli.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/travel-stop-and-stear-link.gif
I think the tie downs are fine if you anchor them well. I'd use 4 point
tie downs if you were expecting winds in excess of 40-mph.
I used a block of foam when I first began taxi testing in 90-degree
heat. Could have been more imaginative as it blew away when the
canopy was opened further a week later.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Frank Derfler wrote:
> I'm considering buying an AMD-manufactured Zodiak 601XL. (Yes, I know
> the Continental isn't as light as the Rotax or as smooth as the
> Jabaru, but my local A&Ps don't acknowledge the legitimacy of either
> one --Hey, it's what I've got to work with!) I went for a ride
> yesterday and enjoyed it, but now the simple "questions that I should
> have asked" come up..
>
> 1. Tow bar? The two of us pushed the Zodiak back into the hanger by
> hand without a tow bar. The owner "steered" by pushing down the
> tail. I will always have to push my airplane back and usually by
> myself. Is there an appropriate tow bar for pushing back and where
> does it attach?
>
> 2. Tie down? Any hard-earned pieces of 601 XL tie-down wisdom out
> there? Aileron locks? Any extra places to grab onto? The tail
> tie-down doesn't look too strong, is it possible to "tow" the airplane
> into a hangar using the tail tie-down?
>
> 3. Canopy opening.. is there a pattern somewhere for a block of wood
> or PVC or something that holds the canopy open while taxiing?
> Somebody must have designed a nice "clamp on" holder-opener!
>
> Thanks! -- FJD
>
> --
> Frank Derfler
> See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz <http://www.derfler.biz>
> See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
> <http://www.flyinflorida.com>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build - pre drill holes before |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi David,
Welcome aboard.
I would recommend waiting to drill holes until the underlying
structure is built. That way you can put the holes where they match
the existing structure instead of the theoretical location the prints
indicate they should be. The little differences between ideal and
reality can add up.
Paul
XL Fuselage
At 04:24 PM 7/8/2006, you wrote:
>First posting from a newbie scratch builder
>
>I have built the tail for my 601XL from a kit from CZAW and have
>decided to scratch build the rest of the plane.
>I have taken delivery of the sheet aluminium and am now in the
>process of marking out the skins for the flaps and ailerons.
>My questions is for those who have already done this is - should I
>pre-drill the holes while the aluminium is still flat or should I
>wait until it is bent?
>
>Any suggestions gratefully received
>
>
>Dave
>601XL plans built - wings - England
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
The cables are not threaded through the holes in the bellcrank. The cables attach
to the bellcrank by means of cable shackles. If I recall correctly, the cable
shackle can be inserted through the cable loop and thimble after it's swaged
although it is easier to thread the cable through before swaging.
I installed the thimble and shackle then threaded the cable through the sleeve
and shackle, pulled it tight and then clamped it with a small set of vice grips
to hold it tight while I made the first crimp in the sleeve. Then just before
I installed the wings, I pulled the swaged ends of the cables out into the
wings with pieces of rope that I had threaded through the wings with the help
of a broom handle and tape.
After I had the wings attached and the outer ends of the cables attached to the
bellcranks, I cut the cables to length and swaged the inboard ends behind the
seats.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
> Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a
> thimble. It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the wing, the
> bellcrank must be removed from its bracket. I suppose it would be easier to
> reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the wing, which
> means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through the access hole.
> While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing open.
>
> Jay in Dallas
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive
Content-Type: Multipart/alternative;
boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_29054_1152405628_1"
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_29054_1152405628_1
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY
="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Ed, The cables must be threaded thr
ough the holes in the bellcrank, with a thimble. It is not as easy as
it sounds! If this is done outside the wing, the bellcrank must be removed f
rom its bracket. I suppose it would be easier to reinstall the bellcra
nk than to try to do the swaging inside the wing, which means reattaching th
e control rod to the aileron, also through the access hole. While it is poss
ible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing open.<BR>
<BR>
Jay in Dallas </FONT></HTML>
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_29054_1152405628_1--
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Pushing back a 601XL |
1. It's not too difficult to push back a Zodiac alone. You grab hold of the prop
and push sideways on the nose in the direction you want the tail to go as you
push it back.
3. At first I made a canopy prop out of a piece of 1 by 2 by cutting a notch on
one end that fit over the latch pin and carving down the other end to fit into
the latch mechanism in the canopy frame. this worked well enough to keep the
canopy partway open during taxi but every once in a while a gust of wind from
behind would try to flip the canopy open and my prop stick would do nothing to
prevent this. Recently, I went to an auto parts store to the "Help" products
section and bought a latch pin the same size as the one on my plane and bought
a piece of galvanized strap steel from the hardware store (about 1 1/4 inches
wide and 1/8 inch thick). I drilled a hole in one end of the strap to bolt the
latch pin through and drilled a hole in the other end that would fit over
the latch pin on the canopy rail. Now I just insert the pin on my canopy prop
into the canopy latch and put the pin on the canopy rail through the hole in
the other end and it stays put.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
> I'm considering buying an AMD-manufactured Zodiak 601XL. (Yes, I know the
> Continental isn't as light as the Rotax or as smooth as the Jabaru, but my
> local A&Ps don't acknowledge the legitimacy of either one --Hey, it's what
> I've got to work with!) I went for a ride yesterday and enjoyed it, but
> now the simple "questions that I should have asked" come up..
>
> 1. Tow bar? The two of us pushed the Zodiak back into the hanger by hand
> without a tow bar. The owner "steered" by pushing down the tail. I will
> always have to push my airplane back and usually by myself. Is there an
> appropriate tow bar for pushing back and where does it attach?
>
> 2. Tie down? Any hard-earned pieces of 601 XL tie-down wisdom out there?
> Aileron locks? Any extra places to grab onto? The tail tie-down doesn't
> look too strong, is it possible to "tow" the airplane into a hangar using
> the tail tie-down?
>
> 3. Canopy opening.. is there a pattern somewhere for a block of wood or PVC
> or something that holds the canopy open while taxiing? Somebody must have
> designed a nice "clamp on" holder-opener!
>
> Thanks! -- FJD
>
> --
> Frank Derfler
> See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz
> See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive
Content-Type: Multipart/alternative;
boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20272_1152407379_1"
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20272_1152407379_1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
<div>I'm considering buying an AMD-manufactured Zodiak 601XL. (Yes, I know
the Continental isn't as light as the Rotax or as smooth as the Jabaru, but
my local A&Ps don't acknowledge the legitimacy of either one --Hey,
it's what I've got to work with!) I went for a ride yesterday and
enjoyed it, but now the simple "questions that I should have asked"
come up..
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1. Tow bar? The two of us pushed the Zodiak back into the hanger
by hand without a tow bar. The owner "steered" by pushing down
the tail. I will always have to push my airplane back and usually by
myself. Is there an appropriate tow bar for pushing back and where
does it attach?
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>2. Tie down? Any hard-earned pieces of 601 XL tie-down wisdom out there?
Aileron locks? Any extra places to grab onto? The
tail tie-down doesn't look too strong, is it possible to "tow" the airplane
into a hangar using the tail tie-down?
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3. Canopy opening.. is there a pattern somewhere for a block of wood
or PVC or something that holds the canopy open while taxiing? Somebody
must have designed a nice "clamp on" holder-opener! </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks! -- FJD <br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Frank Derfler <br>See my views and reviews at <a href="http://www.derfler.biz">www.derfler.biz</a> <br>See my information for pilots at <a href="http://www.flyinflorida.com">
www.flyinflorida.com</a> </div>
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20272_1152407379_1--
Message 41
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Brian is right on track. The correct part would be AS & S part No. MS20667.
It's a swaged on fork end that passes over the bell crank and merely gets an
AN Bolt with a hole for a cotter pin thru a castle nut, ie: AN3-8.
The best, cheapest, correct way to cut aircraft cable is with a cold chisel.
That's hard to do when the cable is in place. You can do what you want, but
it seems easiest to me to run the rope thru the wing, close the wing up,
finish the airframe, mount the wing and tail empanage, then measure all the
cables you will need.
This way you can easily build them on your work bench or order them made to
length. BTW, the other end gets the same part, with the addition of the
correct turnbuckle - safety wired.
I am building the HDS, not the XL, and have a different aileron
configuration, but it still uses a bell crank. Nor have I looked that far
into the plans. I am merely relying on ancient knowledge from my A&P days
over 20 years ago. The input of a current A&P would be welcomed.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
The cables are not threaded through the holes in the bellcrank. The cables
attach to the bellcrank by means of cable shackles. If I recall correctly,
the cable shackle can be inserted through the cable loop and thimble after
it's swaged although it is easier to thread the cable through before
swaging.
I installed the thimble and shackle then threaded the cable through the
sleeve and shackle, pulled it tight and then clamped it with a small set of
vice grips to hold it tight while I made the first crimp in the sleeve. Then
just before I installed the wings, I pulled the swaged ends of the cables
out into the wings with pieces of rope that I had threaded through the wings
with the help of a broom handle and tape.
After I had the wings attached and the outer ends of the cables attached to
the bellcranks, I cut the cables to length and swaged the inboard ends
behind the seats.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
> Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a
> thimble. It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the
wing, the
> bellcrank must be removed from its bracket. I suppose it would be easier
to
> reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the wing,
which
> means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through the access
hole.
> While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing
open.
>
> Jay in Dallas
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive
Message 42
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| Subject: | Pushing back a 601XL |
My answers are below in CAPITAL LETTERS
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Derfler
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 5:58 PM
I'm considering buying an AMD-manufactured Zodiak 601XL. (Yes, I know the
Continental isn't as light as the Rotax or as smooth as the Jabaru, but my
local A&Ps don't acknowledge the legitimacy of either one --Hey, it's what
I've got to work with!) I went for a ride yesterday and enjoyed it, but
now the simple "questions that I should have asked" come up..
1. Tow bar? The two of us pushed the Zodiak back into the hanger by hand
without a tow bar. The owner "steered" by pushing down the tail. I will
always have to push my airplane back and usually by myself. Is there an
appropriate tow bar for pushing back and where does it attach? WE JUST PUSH
IT BACK USING THE HUB. THE AIRCRAFT IS SO LIGHT, IT IS EASY TO DO.
2. Tie down? Any hard-earned pieces of 601 XL tie-down wisdom out there?
Aileron locks? IF YOU HAVE DUAL STICKS, YOU CAN TIE THE SEAT BELT AROUND
ONE OR BOTH OF THE STICKS TO ACT AS AN AILERON AND ELEVATOR LOCK Any extra
places to grab onto? The tail tie-down doesn't look too strong, is it
possible to "tow" the airplane into a hangar using the tail tie-down?
3. Canopy opening.. is there a pattern somewhere for a block of wood or PVC
or something that holds the canopy open while taxiing? Somebody must have
designed a nice "clamp on" holder-opener! MY ELBOW WORKS FINE.
Thanks! -- FJD
--
Frank Derfler
See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz
See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build - pre drill holes before |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Hi David
I have to agree with Paul. Always best to wait until
the parts are bent up
David
--- Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi David,
>
> Welcome aboard.
>
> I would recommend waiting to drill holes until the
> underlying
> structure is built. That way you can put the holes
> where they match
> the existing structure instead of the theoretical
> location the prints
> indicate they should be. The little differences
> between ideal and
> reality can add up.
>
> Paul
> XL Fuselage
>
> At 04:24 PM 7/8/2006, you wrote:
> >First posting from a newbie scratch builder
> >
> >I have built the tail for my 601XL from a kit from
> CZAW and have
> >decided to scratch build the rest of the plane.
> >I have taken delivery of the sheet aluminium and am
> now in the
> >process of marking out the skins for the flaps and
> ailerons.
> >My questions is for those who have already done
> this is - should I
> >pre-drill the holes while the aluminium is still
> flat or should I
> >wait until it is bent?
> >
> >Any suggestions gratefully received
> >
> >
> >Dave
> >601XL plans built - wings - England
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
__________________________________________________
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build - pre drill holes before bending? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi David:
NO and NO! Don't drill any holes until you are ready
to install the part. I made this mistake and had to
re-make a few parts. I know the drawings show the
hole locations but as in the "Pirates Code" it's more
like a guideline. There are some exceptions to the
rule, but wait until you have the part ready to
install to drill the holes and then plan carefully.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
--- David Wright <davidhwright@mac.com> wrote:
> All
>
should I
> pre-drill the holes while the aluminium is still
> flat or should I
> wait until it is bent?
__________________________________________________
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Rilsan Polyamide Tubing: How to heat bend? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "norriedh" <norried@shaw.ca>
Here's how: Rilsan is one of the group of plastics commonly called
Nylon, composed of polyamides. The different variants of Nylon have
generally similar characteristics, but each has some particular
characteristic extended for an application. Rilsan is the trade name
of a nylon well suited for tubing. It can be hot bent by heating with
a heat gun. Boiling water (100 C) is not hot enough I found, but the
melting point is around 180 C so a low heat gun setting is needed. Two
tips are: use a bending jig that contrains the sides of the tube from
moving out and the tube flattening and use a piece of wooden dowel
(sanded down to fit snugly) inside the open end to stop it changing
shape and also for leverage. So heat the tube in the area of the bend,
put it into the jig, bend and hold till cool. Some springback occurs
so repeat as needed to get the bend required.
A bending jig can be just a groove filed circumferentially around the
corner of a board.
Douglas N
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45806#45806
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Getting started on CH601XL |
Sounds like you are in a good situation for building. Rayne is 165 miles
from the Galveston landing of the Bolivar ferry on a bearing of about 64
degrees.
Ed
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting started on CH601XL
Hi Ed ,I am located in Brazoria 50mi South of Houston .I will look up
Rayne La. and see how close we are .As you can tell by my post I am just
getting started ,however when I start a project I put many hours a day
into it. My hanger is in my back yard and I am retired . Wade Jones
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Getting started on CH601XL |
Hi Wade,
My hats off to YOU. I am 75 years old and still fly and build a lot! I
built an Avid Aerobat when I was 72. Had a Jabiru 2200 and was a real
kick to fly once I got accustomed to the quickness of the response of
the controls. My first snap roll with it was by accident. From there on
I really enjoyed aerobatics until I would make myself feel queezy which
did not take long. I have a 601HD now that had a Revmaster when I bought
it. Replaced it with a zero time Lycoming 0235. It makes twice as much
noise and burns twice as much gas. Canopy blew off the other day and I
am just about thru with the addition of a front opening canopy. Sorry if
I bored you Wade, just wanted you to know that there was other "well
seasoned" folks out here having fun.
See you later,
John
Do not archive
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Actually, you don't even have to tighten the shackle bolts inside the hatch.
Everything can be done in the daylight except bolting the bellcrank back
into its bracket. Feed the pre-thimbled cables through the lightening holes
as you suggested, insert the shackles, bolt them to the bellcrank under the
wing (outside the hatch). Then the bellcrank is bolted to its bracket inside
the hatch. I made my hatch bigger than the plans called for so it ought to
be reasonably easy.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 1:34 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine"
> <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
>
> Thanks Randy and Jay -
>
> I am getting close to closing up my first wing and, like Gary, I don't
> really want to do this at the moment. Perhaps a couple more questions
> will help me understand more of what is at stake:
>
> 1) Can't you make the loop in the cable outside of the wing at any
> time, any place?
> If so, then you can just feed the cable into the closed wing with a
> 1x2 or something.
>
> 2) Can't you then slide the pre-made loop into the cable shackle and
> just bolt the shackle to the bellcrank through the access hole?
> Then the only thing you are actually doing through the access hole is
> tightening the shackle bolts.
>
> Am I still missing something? **And, why doesn't Zenith have any
> drawings/guides/instructions on these steps?**
>
> Thanks, Michael
>
> do not archive
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Thanks. That's pretty much how I expect to do mine.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:40 PM
> The cables are not threaded through the holes in the bellcrank. The cables
> attach to the bellcrank by means of cable shackles. If I recall correctly,
> the cable shackle can be inserted through the cable loop and thimble after
> it's swaged although it is easier to thread the cable through before
> swaging.
>
> I installed the thimble and shackle then threaded the cable through the
> sleeve and shackle, pulled it tight and then clamped it with a small set
> of vice grips to hold it tight while I made the first crimp in the sleeve.
> Then just before I installed the wings, I pulled the swaged ends of the
> cables out into the wings with pieces of rope that I had threaded through
> the wings with the help of a broom handle and tape.
>
> After I had the wings attached and the outer ends of the cables attached
> to the bellcranks, I cut the cables to length and swaged the inboard ends
> behind the seats.
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