Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:06 AM - Quick Arlington report and photos (John Marzulli)
2. 03:49 AM - Re: Getting started on CH601XL (Wade Jones)
3. 04:22 AM - Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure (Scott Thatcher)
4. 05:48 AM - Re: Yaw oscillation, 701 (Rick R)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: Yaw oscillation, 701 (Edward Moody II)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure (David Mikesell)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure (Gbrac80@aol.com)
8. 07:18 AM - Question for finished builders (Brian kissinger)
9. 08:13 AM - Re: Flanging tool ()
10. 08:13 AM - Sheet aluminum racks (Bill Naumuk)
11. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine ()
12. 09:25 AM - Re: Sheet aluminum racks (Gary Boothe)
13. 09:25 AM - Re: Question for finished builders (Jim Hoak)
14. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Wing Building (Michael Valentine)
15. 09:29 AM - Re: Wing Building ()
16. 09:41 AM - Re: Flanging tool (George Swinford)
17. 09:42 AM - Re: Sheet aluminum racks (Jim Hoak)
18. 09:44 AM - Re: Question for finished builders (LarryMcFarland)
19. 09:50 AM - Re: Sheet aluminum racks (LarryMcFarland)
20. 10:01 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 49 Msgs - 07/08/06 (Gpjann@aol.com)
21. 10:19 AM - Re: Flanging tool (Dave)
22. 11:29 AM - Flap mounting (Rodney Mills)
23. 11:58 AM - Re: Flap mounting (Jaybannist@cs.com)
24. 12:30 PM - Re: Flap mounting (Al Young)
25. 12:45 PM - Re: Question for finished builders (Edward Moody II)
26. 12:48 PM - Would you like sauce with those? (Debo Cox)
27. 01:22 PM - Rudder plans 6T4-2 (JC Quiroga)
28. 01:27 PM - Re: Flap mounting (Edward Moody II)
29. 02:02 PM - Re: Rudder plans 6T4-2 (Jaybannist@cs.com)
30. 02:04 PM - Re: Wing Building (Phil Maxson)
31. 02:21 PM - Re: Would you like sauce with those? (LarryMcFarland)
32. 02:55 PM - CH801 Glide Ratio? (Chris In Madison)
33. 03:19 PM - New to the List (FLOYD JAMISON)
34. 03:23 PM - Re: Question for finished builders (Jean-Paul Roy)
35. 03:40 PM - Aileron Tip (Stephen R. Look)
36. 03:43 PM - Re: Would you like sauce with those? (Debo Cox)
37. 03:43 PM - Re: Would you like sauce with those? (Randy Bryant)
38. 04:03 PM - Re: Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure (LHusky@aol.com)
39. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Flap mounting ()
40. 04:53 PM - Re: Rudder plans 6T4-2 (Paul Mulwitz)
41. 04:53 PM - Re: New to the List (Robin Bellach)
42. 05:13 PM - Re: Flap mounting (Lynn Dingfelder)
43. 05:13 PM - Re: Aileron Tip (Robin Bellach)
44. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Flap mounting (Al Young)
45. 06:42 PM - Re: Aileron Tip (Al Young)
46. 06:50 PM - Primer / paint question (Carlos Sa)
47. 06:58 PM - Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? (David Barth)
48. 07:18 PM - Re: Primer / paint question (Gary Boothe)
49. 07:58 PM - Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? (Chris In Madison)
50. 08:40 PM - RE : Re: Primer / paint question (Carlos Sa)
51. 09:10 PM - Re: Rudder plans 6T4-2 (JC Quiroga)
52. 09:13 PM - Re: Question for finished builders (NYTerminat@aol.com)
53. 11:22 PM - Re: Question for finished builders (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Quick Arlington report and photos |
I've posted a few photos from Arlington up on my site (
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
). The day was warm for Seattle ( 85F ) and absolutely clear. Michael Heintz
was at the Zenith/QSP booth along with a 601XL and a 701.
Skykits also showed up with a Savannah now sporting jury struts... hmm is
that possibly related to the wing failures discussed a few weeks ago on the
list?
We ventured over to the Lake Goodwin Splash-In, but only saw a Cessna, a
Kitfox and a floating car.
Highlights of the day included a Storch, an Alpha Jet and some daring moves
by Kathy Hirtz in a Pitts Special
--
John in Seattle
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Getting started on CH601XL |
Hi John ,nice to hear a vote of confidence .Sounds as though you are
also enjoying your golden years . Wade
----- Original Message -----
From: John Anderson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting started on CH601XL
Hi Wade,
My hats off to YOU. I am 75 years old and still fly and build a lot!
I built an Avid Aerobat when I was 72. Had a Jabiru 2200 and was a real
kick to fly once I got accustomed to the quickness of the response of
the controls. My first snap roll with it was by accident. on I really
enjoyed aerobatics until I would make myself feel queezy which did not
take long. I have a 601HD now that had a Revmaster when I bought it.
Replaced it with a zero time Lycoming 0235. It makes twice as much noise
and burns twice as much gas. Canopy blew off the other day and I am just
about thru with the addition of a front opening canopy. Sorry if I bored
you Wade, just wanted you to know that there was other "well seasoned"
folks out here having fun.
See you later,
John
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure |
<<<I have never heard of a broken distributor shaft.>>>
This was pulled from the NTSB accident report of an HDS engine failure
that indicated a distributor can fail. The shaft was only the
contributor to the failure... it didn't fail itself. I don't know what
the engine type was however. See
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 030702X01004&key=1 for
more info.
"The pilot/owner stated that after the accident he examined the airplane
to determine the reason the engine had ceased to operate, and he found
that the distributor rotor had failed due to excessive shaft clearance.
He said that the excessive clearance had allowed the rotor to wobble in
its rotation, and contact the pins within the cap, which had resulted in
the metal contact at the top, separating from the plastic base."
I just finished the sides of the fuselage and my right elbow feels like
I've been playing tennis for two weeks. I can barely lift the rivet gun!
Scott Thatcher
Message 4
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| Subject: | Yaw oscillation, 701 |
Thanks Bill...EXCELLENT report...definitely IN my archives!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tommy Walker <twalker@cableone.net> wrote:
BODY { FONT: 10pt Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif } Bill,
Thanks, that is one for me to file in my list of things to know about. I had
not considered that happening........
Boy, that first lift off is going to be exciting.......
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:39 AM
Hi all,
I just sort of solved an odd problem I was having with my CH701 currently under
flight test with 14 hours on it, and hope this may serve someone else at some
point.
At every take-off I was getting an oscillation in the yaw axis, a few seconds
after liftoff, for anywhwere from 2 to 5 seconds, which went away if a) I continued
climb normally, b) I dropped from 5450 rpm (max) to 5200 or lower. It
is felt in the whole airframe, and the cowl looked like it was visibly displacing
a half inch as the aircraft "wobbled" in yaw at approximately 3 or 4 cycles
per sec. Airspeed is accelerating between 50 and 60 mph at this time. The oscillation
is mild, more annoying than concerning.
It could not be stopped by pitching up or down slightly, or changing rudder position
slightly. No perceptible vibration is felt in the pedals. My rudder
cable tension seems possibly slightly on the high side, and I also tried pressing
on both pedals during climb, with no change.
After adding another pair of dzus fittings at the cowling at the bottom of the
firewall, verifying blade pitch and minimum vibration, without any change, it
occurred to me that the main gear might be out of balance, and the wheels are
spinning down from a 40+mph rpm during this time. Although I don't feel any
out-of-roundness or vibration from the gear during the takeoff run, I tried pressing
the brakes immediately after liftoff.
I made four takeoffs today pressing the brakes after liftoff, and got none of
the oscillation, which has been very consistent prior to today.
So either the wheels and tires spinning down were the culprit, or I am wrong
about my rudder tension, and by braking I'm adding more rudder cable tension (through
slop and flexure of the nose-wheel steering hardware) than I did before
when trying this by pushing only on the pedals (no brakes). I'll try more with
pedal pressure without brakes again, too, to see if I can figure out what's
happening. But at least it's under control for now.
Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but it seemed like there was a lot to explain
for anyone interested.
Bill Mileski
N701MW
Ledyard, CT
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yaw oscillation, 701 |
Now if we could just balance the nose wheel, we'd have this problem on
the ropes. That's probably why taildragger pilots can't be lured to
tricycle gear.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / right wing complete!
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick R
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Yaw oscillation, 701
Thanks Bill...EXCELLENT report...definitely IN my archives!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tommy Walker <twalker@cableone.net> wrote:
Bill,
Thanks, that is one for me to file in my list of things to know
about. I had not considered that happening........
Boy, that first lift off is going to be exciting.......
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William
Mileski
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:39 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Yaw oscillation, 701
Hi all,
I just sort of solved an odd problem I was having with my CH701
currently under flight test with 14 hours on it, and hope this may serve
someone else at some point.
At every take-off I was getting an oscillation in the yaw axis, a
few seconds after liftoff, for anywhwere from 2 to 5 seconds, which went
away if a) I continued climb normally, b) I dropped from 5450 rpm (max)
to 5200 or lower. It is felt in the whole airframe, and the cowl looked
like it was visibly displacing a half inch as the aircraft "wobbled" in
yaw at approximately 3 or 4 cycles per sec. Airspeed is accelerating
between 50 and 60 mph at this time. The oscillation is mild, more
annoying than concerning.
It could not be stopped by pitching up or down slightly, or
changing rudder position slightly. No perceptible vibration is felt in
the pedals. My rudder cable tension seems possibly slightly on the high
side, and I also tried pressing on both pedals during climb, with no
change.
After adding another pair of dzus fittings at the cowling at the
bottom of the firewall, verifying blade pitch and minimum vibration,
without any change, it occurred to me that the main gear might be out of
balance, and the wheels are spinning down from a 40+mph rpm during this
time. Although I don't feel any out-of-roundness or vibration from the
gear during the takeoff run, I tried pressing the brakes immediately
after liftoff.
I made four takeoffs today pressing the brakes after liftoff, and
got none of the oscillation, which has been very consistent prior to
today.
So either the wheels and tires spinning down were the culprit, or
I am wrong about my rudder tension, and by braking I'm adding more
rudder cable tension (through slop and flexure of the nose-wheel
steering hardware) than I did before when trying this by pushing only on
the pedals (no brakes). I'll try more with pedal pressure without brakes
again, too, to see if I can figure out what's happening. But at least
it's under control for now.
Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but it seemed like there was
a lot to explain for anyone interested.
Bill Mileski
N701MW
Ledyard, CT
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure |
Personally, I would say that the distributor contributed to the failure.
I would say that the owner/builder failed to assure the tolerances were
in range and that caused the failure.
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
209-609-8774
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Thatcher
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 4:18 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure
<<<I have never heard of a broken distributor shaft.>>>
This was pulled from the NTSB accident report of an HDS engine failure
that indicated a distributor can fail. The shaft was only the
contributor to the failure... it didn't fail itself. I don't know what
the engine type was however. See
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 030702X01004&key=1 for
more info.
"The pilot/owner stated that after the accident he examined the
airplane to determine the reason the engine had ceased to operate, and
he found that the distributor rotor had failed due to excessive shaft
clearance. He said that the excessive clearance had allowed the rotor to
wobble in its rotation, and contact the pins within the cap, which had
resulted in the metal contact at the top, separating from the plastic
base."
I just finished the sides of the fuselage and my right elbow feels
like I've been playing tennis for two weeks. I can barely lift the rivet
gun!
Scott Thatcher
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure |
FAA register simply lists this engine as a Subaru; model not identified.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Question for finished builders |
I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished builders who
painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited until later (and benefits
either way).
The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get my airplane
in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over some time do the
final detail work like paint, etc.
Thanks,
Brian "Brain" Kissinger
www.brainsflight.com
701 factory kit
fuselage on gear
finishing tail section
wings skeletons complete
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting
at 1/min.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging tool |
COMPASSS? We don' need no esteenkin' compass! You might try this: Drive
a small brad at your selected center point. The loop a piece of thin
wire around it, measure out the desired distance, and then wrap the wire
around the tip of a pencil. As the French say, viiiola. Perfect circle.
Give it a try, you may save a few bucks.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
Working on the canopy
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com<mailto:LHusky@aol.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging tool
I believe I have found someone to make my die's. They will be rather
expensive, but I need them and do not have the resource's to make them.
I tried the plywood ones, but all I have is a small band saw. I would
need a compass to make the circle and could not find one in this small
"Little house on the Prarie town". I should have my dies in about a
month I am told. I guess it is time to go work on an engine now. I
will pick up all the core parts from a Corvair guy next week. I can
have it cleaned locally, but everything else I will send out.
I just wanted you guys to know that my dies will be available to any
future builder at no charge except shipping. That is after I have all
my holes done!!
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
In limbo for now:)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Sheet aluminum racks |
All-
Has anyone built racks attached to the walls of their shop for their
sheet stock up to 8' long out of scrap 2x4s and plywood? My checking
account can't take too much more of a beating after what I've put it
through the last couple of months. Any pictures or sketches appreciated.
Bill
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon on Corvair engine |
Paul M, theoretically, you are correct. However, if you run a
likelihood/consequence matrix, it could be seen that the likelihood of a
catastrophic failure is very slim, somewhere in the four-decimal-points
or more. The statistical probability reaches way out there. If you
wanted to halve the probability, you could run two completely parallel
electrical systems (wouldn't really add that much more weight). It's
somewhat analagous to the hypothetical, "You will absolutely die if an
elephant falls out of a 747 flying overhead, crashes through your entire
house and lands on you at the instant you step out of your basement bomb
shelter." I spent a few days with a Master's in the safety field, and
one of the first things we learned back in the old days is that safety
is the intelligent application of acceptable risks, not the removal or
avoidance of all possible risks. Personally, I like WW's setup.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz<mailto:p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine
It is not clear to me whether Mr. Wynne's dual coil ignition system
increases the reliability of the Corvair engine or reduces it.
Since the "Dual" parts are not isolated from each other (they are
connected at the spark plugs and the battery/generator/voltage
regulator) it is possible that failures of any of the additional
components could bring down the whole engine. It is clear that the
additional components naturally lead to more individual component
failures since there are more components. I don't know how many of the
component failure modes have been analyzed with regard to one failure
causing another part to not work properly. Without this analysis it is
not possible to know whether the increased complexity leads to
improvement or deterioration of the engine reliability.
In any event, failure of the battery, generator, voltage regulator, or
any of the related wiring and connectors could lead to an instant engine
failure. This is not supposed to happen in true aircraft engines
because the dual isolated magneto system doesn't rely on battery power
to keep the engine running. That leads me to believe the Corvair
conversion, like all auto conversions, is more likely to experience a
complete in-flight power failure than a purpose built aircraft engine.
Paul
XL Fuselage
That is correct. It uses a dual ignition distributor with dual
coils and single spark plugs.
http://www.flycorvaircom/distributor.html<http://www.flycorvair.com/distr
ibutor.html>
It's all a matter of risk management and identifying an expectable
level of risk. Everything you do in life is a risk. Going to work this
morning in these hills with crazy drivers crossing the center line is
definitely a risk. But it was a risk I was willing to take to have the
view out my back window. To me, the view from my Corvair powered Zodiac
will be worth the calculated risk.
-
Message 12
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| Subject: | Sheet aluminum racks |
Bill,
No, but I just had an epiphany yesterday as I pulled out my rolled up
aluminum for the 3rd time in two weeks. Why not cut the legs of my workbench
a little lower and add another top that would be supported by a 2x4
framework, but leave a couple inches to slide 4' wide sheets into it.
Gary
All-
Has anyone built racks attached to the walls of their shop for their
sheet stock up to 8' long out of scrap 2x4s and plywood? My checking account
can't take too much more of a beating after what I've put it through the
last couple of months. Any pictures or sketches appreciated.
Bill
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Question for finished builders |
Brian,
I've built three airplanes over the years, two of which were painted. I
painted the first of the two after flying it a while. It had a thin coan
of Chromate while flying it before taking it out of service to paint it.
Had to "Strip" the Chromate off before painting. This was the most work
on that plane.
The second plane I painted is the one I'm flying now. I painted it
before ever flying it. It was easier doing it that way. The drawback is
the problem of touch up when you have to disturb the nice new paint job
for corrections. I've had to do that too.
With all that said, I think if I've just built a kit plane to specs, I'd
paint it before flying it. Just my oppinion!
Jim Hoak
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian kissinger
To: Matronics Post
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Question for finished builders
I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished
builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited
until later (and benefits either way).
The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get
my airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over
some time do the final detail work like paint, etc.
Thanks,
Brian "Brain" Kissinger
www.brainsflight.com
701 factory kit
fuselage on gear
finishing tail section
wings skeletons complete
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
rates starting at 1=A2/min.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
Should have read more messages before I responded!
Thanks - this idea is even better and sounds like my new plan. I
really didn't want to learn about swaging and cables and thimbles at
this point. I will personally be much more motiviated by finishing up
the first wing!
Michael
On 7/9/06, Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Actually, you don't even have to tighten the shackle bolts inside the hatch.
> Everything can be done in the daylight except bolting the bellcrank back
> into its bracket. Feed the pre-thimbled cables through the lightening holes
> as you suggested, insert the shackles, bolt them to the bellcrank under the
> wing (outside the hatch). Then the bellcrank is bolted to its bracket inside
> the hatch. I made my hatch bigger than the plans called for so it ought to
> be reasonably easy.
>
> Ed
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
When building my wing, before I closed it up I ran two lengths of baler
twine from the bellcrank out to the inboard ends and tied them off. With
the control wire tied to the twine, we just pull through, and connect.
Remember---string will not do. Light rope will not do. A long piece of
wire will not do. Lacing cord will not do. You MUST use baler twine, or
evil things will happen
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair (dare I say it?)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com<mailto:Jaybannist@cs.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Building
Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank,
with a thimble. It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside
the wing, the bellcrank must be removed from its bracket. I suppose it
would be easier to reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging
inside the wing, which means reattaching the control rod to the aileron,
also through the access hole. While it is possible, I just found it much
easier to do with the wing open.
Jay in Dallas
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging tool |
Or space a couple of #40 holes at the desired radius in a strip of scrap
aluminum. Pin in one, pencil in the other and rotate. Works every
time.
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36@msn.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging tool
COMPASSS? We don' need no esteenkin' compass! You might try this:
Drive a small brad at your selected center point. The loop a piece of
thin wire around it, measure out the desired distance, and then wrap the
wire around the tip of a pencil. As the French say, viiiola. Perfect
circle. Give it a try, you may save a few bucks.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
Working on the canopy
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging tool
I believe I have found someone to make my die's. They will be
rather expensive, but I need them and do not have the resource's to make
them. I tried the plywood ones, but all I have is a small band saw. I
would need a compass to make the circle and could not find one in this
small "Little house on the Prarie town". I should have my dies in about
a month I am told. I guess it is time to go work on an engine now. I
will pick up all the core parts from a Corvair guy next week. I can
have it cleaned locally, but everything else I will send out.
I just wanted you guys to know that my dies will be available to any
future builder at no charge except shipping. That is after I have all
my holes done!!
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
In limbo for now:)
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Sheet aluminum racks |
Bill,
Don't have any picture, but the system I used was attaching 2"x2" ( that
what I had on hand) vertically hanging off the cieling joists, assached
with a simple 1/4" bolt. this allowed the vertical piece to self center.
Plenty strong enough. Space the vertical to the distance needed and tie
them togethed with 2"x2" or ( 2" x 4" ) attached with screws or bolts.
Slide the plywood into place and you've a storage surface for the sheets
of metal up out of the way.
I used this same system (along the walls, up overhead) for all my parts
when the kit came. I gave each shelf a location code and marked my
inventory sheet as where every part went. Found every part when I needed
it. Just looked at the inventory sheet and went to the part. The whole
system worked as planned.
Jim Hoak
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Sheet aluminum racks
All-
Has anyone built racks attached to the walls of their shop for
their sheet stock up to 8' long out of scrap 2x4s and plywood? My
checking account can't take too much more of a beating after what I've
put it through the last couple of months. Any pictures or sketches
appreciated.
Bill
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Question for finished builders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Brian,
It's a good thing to paint before first flight if you can manage it. I
flew 85 hours before deciding to paint and would estimate it will cost
me more than 100 hours
extra in the preparation and clean up going forward to paint. I've been
at this since April and only have the small parts nearly done. I'd
probably still have done
it this way because that's the way I work, but if you can manage to get
a coat of paint on it before the fact, you'll save a lot of time.
Also, paint in cool weather
if you can 70-80 degree days or air conditioned air will save you rework.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
do not archive
Brian kissinger wrote:
> I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished
> builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited
> until later (and benefits either way).
>
> The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get
> my airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over
> some time do the final detail work like paint, etc.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Brian "Brain" Kissinger
> www.brainsflight.com <http://www.brainsflight.com>
>
> 701 factory kit
> fuselage on gear
> finishing tail section
> wings skeletons complete
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
> rates starting at 1/min.
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Sheet aluminum racks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Bill,
I stack all sheet aluminum against the wall, have put tube and straight
materials in the overhead racks hung from the ceiling. They don't cost
much and do a real service when
it's time to hang wings out of the way.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/winghandling/full/overhead-wing-stowage(2).gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopy.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/rudder_hung_ceiling.gif
Also hung stabilizer, elevator and rudder from bicycle hooks in a corner
over the stairwell going down to my shop.
None of these things are expensive, but they did work well. I still use
the racks for other things now.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> All-
> Has anyone built racks attached to the walls of their shop for
> their sheet stock up to 8' long out of scrap 2x4s and plywood? My
> checking account can't take too much more of a beating after what I've
> put it through the last couple of months. Any pictures or sketches
> appreciated.
> Bill
> do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 49 Msgs - 07/08/06 |
Sorry to hear that you also are having problems with WW and your order.
You are one of many...
WW wont recognize you unless you promote him or his products
In fact he does not like to work with customers who only fly one (1) hour a
week....
Good luck....
GPJ
In a message dated 7/9/2006 6:40:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
zenith-list@matronics.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "wscribb" <wscribb@centurytel.net>
Anybody know where William is hiding? I have been trying to contact him
over the past month via email and telephone. He isn't returning telephone
calls or answering email. Anybody have another phone number for him
(direct), other than the 478-0396?
I placed an order in Sept 2005, and am still waiting for my Stainless
Intake, Stainless Exhaust and Spinner Bulkhead. This is terrible customer
service.
TIA
Message 21
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Easier yet use a scrap piece of aluminum with 2 holes at the spacing you
need place a rivet (not pulled) at the center and put the pencil or marker
(better) in the other then swing your arc. Mark it's size and save for
later use!
Dave
COMPASSS? We don' need no esteenkin' compass! You might try this: Drive a
small brad at your selected center point. The loop a piece of thin wire
around it, measure out the desired distance, and then wrap the wire around
the tip of a pencil. As the French say, viiiola. Perfect circle. Give it a
try, you may save a few bucks.
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
Listers,
Long time lurker. I read the list every day and most questions I have
are answered before I need them. Now my question is about the wing
flaps. I see that you do not install until after wing is mounted and
plans show a do not rivet zone for the hinge. Do I fit the flap to the
wing and drill for the hinge now and not rivet or not drill the hinge
line until after wing is installed. I am ready to rivet the bottom skin
and would like to deburr the trailing edge holes while they are easy
to reach. Thanks
Rodney Mills
Northport, AL
601XL empenage done / Corvair done/ working on wings
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flap mounting |
Rodney, I drilled out all the holes for the flap, deburred and primed. My
flaps are stored apart from the wing. Hope this is right and hope it helps you.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Flap mounting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@mchsi.com>
Rodney- I'd rivet the hinge to the FLAP now when you are ready, but do not
drill the other side to the wing til you install the wing. That way you can
move the flap slightly to get the fit you want. Once you are happy drill,
cleco, then you can remove the flap and clean up your hinge holes. Then you
are ready to rivet.
Al Young
601XL
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 1:24 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
>
> Listers,
> Long time lurker. I read the list every day and most questions I have are
> answered before I need them. Now my question is about the wing flaps. I
> see that you do not install until after wing is mounted and plans show a
> do not rivet zone for the hinge. Do I fit the flap to the wing and drill
> for the hinge now and not rivet or not drill the hinge line until after
> wing is installed. I am ready to rivet the bottom skin and would like to
> deburr the trailing edge holes while they are easy to reach. Thanks
>
> Rodney Mills
> Northport, AL
> 601XL empenage done / Corvair done/ working on wings
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Question for finished builders |
A close friend of mine who is building an RV7-A (with my scant help) is
planning to finish his plane, get it inspected and certified, fly off
the required hours then choose a commercial aircraft painter and fly it
to them. We've seen lots of planes that were not painted flown to local
fly-ins so I guess it's fairly routine to do that. If you decide to make
some significant modification during or after the test period it would
nice not to have to repaint, wouldn't it?
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
From: Brian kissinger
Subject: Zenith-List: Question for finished builders
I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished
builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited
until later (and benefits either way).
The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get
my airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over
some time do the final detail work like paint, etc.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Would you like sauce with those? |
OK, here's one for ya...
I'm in the research phase of building the wing spars for my XL. While looking
through the milspecs for solid riveting, I came across this:
"3.5 Corrosion prevention. When the rivet material is dissimilar to the material
being riveted (reference MIL-STD-171), the rivet hole, countersink, and rivet
shall be coated with zinc chromate primer in accordance with TT-P-1757 prior
to installation. The rivet shall be installed while the primer is in the wet
condition."
Since the solid rivet material is NOT dissimilar to the material being riveted,
common sense tells me that I don't need to wet-dip the rivets for the spars.
Well, my common sense has gotten me into trouble before, so my question is this...
Did anyone who scratch-built their wing spars wet-dip their solid rivets, and
would I be wasting my time and money by doing so? Does Zenith dip theirs for
the spars that are included with the kits?
I'm priming the rest of the entire internal structure with the NAPA rattle-can
primer, so on the outside, that would appear to be enough. But... they ARE the
wing spars for cryin' out loud, so what do you think - dip, or no dip?
Thanks in advance for any insight.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair
WOW (working on wings)
do not archive
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting
at 1/min.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Rudder plans 6T4-2 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JC Quiroga <jcarlo001@yahoo.com>
Hi guys, Im building parts for my 601xl rudder. I
noticed that the manual has part no 6T4-2(tip rib) but
my plans doesn:t even show me the specs. the full
photo of the rudder plans doesnt even show it:s
needed. does that mean the new version doesn:t need
that part at all?? or am I just misssing some pages on
my plans. thanks for the help
--- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Bill,
> I stack all sheet aluminum against the wall, have
> put tube and straight
> materials in the overhead racks hung from the
> ceiling. They don't cost
> much and do a real service when
> it's time to hang wings out of the way.
>
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/winghandling/full/overhead-wing-stowage(2).gif
>
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopy.gif
>
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/rudder_hung_ceiling.gif
> Also hung stabilizer, elevator and rudder from
> bicycle hooks in a corner
> over the stairwell going down to my shop.
> None of these things are expensive, but they did
> work well. I still use
> the racks for other things now.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
> > All-
> > Has anyone built racks attached to the walls
> of their shop for
> > their sheet stock up to 8' long out of scrap 2x4s
> and plywood? My
> > checking account can't take too much more of a
> beating after what I've
> > put it through the last couple of months. Any
> pictures or sketches
> > appreciated.
> >
> Bill
> > do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flap mounting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
I drilled and rivetted the flap hinge when I was rivetting the bottom rear
skin. I had already pulled, cut to length and reinserted the pin in the flap
hinge and drilled the end barrels for safety wire. Once it was rivetted into
the rear channel of the wing, I pulled the pin and stored pin and flap for
later fitting to fuselage (unfortunately in the too distant future). Any
body got problem with that?
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
>
> Listers,
> Long time lurker. I read the list every day and most questions I have are
> answered before I need them. Now my question is about the wing flaps. I
> see that you do not install until after wing is mounted and plans show a
> do not rivet zone for the hinge. Do I fit the flap to the wing and drill
> for the hinge now and not rivet or not drill the hinge line until after
> wing is installed. I am ready to rivet the bottom skin and would like to
> deburr the trailing edge holes while they are easy to reach. Thanks
>
> Rodney Mills
> Northport, AL
> 601XL empenage done / Corvair done/ working on wings
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder plans 6T4-2 |
Larry, the story I get is that there was originally a fiberglass tip. The
outfit that made the part became unreliable and ZAC changed to, what is in
essence, a simple aluminum tip rib. Since the kit didn't come with the hinge
brackets, the tail light, nor the fairing sheet, I expected that a "real" tip would
come with the other parts. Wrong! My tip didn't look finished, so I
"dressed it up" a little with some body putty, just enough to fill in between the
skin and the radius of the rib flange. If I had it to do over, I would place the
rib so that the edge of the skin was at the beginning of that radius, not
flush with the top of the rib.
Jay in Dallas
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Building |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
That's the way I did it.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
>From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Building
>Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 08:28:43 -0500
>
>I may be wrong but as best I can tell, the swagging can take place outside
>the wing, then thread the cables through the lightening holes etc.
>
>Any reason that won't work?
>
>Ed
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Would you like sauce with those? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Debo,
I don't know who's quoting mililtary standards, but Mil-Std-171 isn't
even being used by the military. Everything is performance standard and
technically, the requirement would be a waste of your time. Worse, if
you decided to paint your aircraft with any paint that doesn't like Zinc
Chromate,
you'd have a mess to contend with if the rivets were part of the
surfaces you need to put a finish to. If the materials are so different
that they would
work against each other, it might be necessary to consider the effects
of corrosion, but there aren't any materials specified in the Zenith
plans that
would do this to you. No dip.........
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Debo Cox wrote:
> OK, here's one for ya...
>
> I'm in the research phase of building the wing spars for my XL. While
> looking through the milspecs for solid riveting, I came across this:
>
> *"3.5 Corrosion prevention.* When the rivet material is dissimilar to
> the material being riveted (reference MIL-STD-171), the rivet hole,
> countersink, and rivet shall be coated with zinc chromate primer in
> accordance with TT-P-1757 prior to installation. The rivet shall be
> installed while the primer is in the wet condition."
>
> Since the solid rivet material is NOT dissimilar to the material being
> riveted, common sense tells me that I don't need to wet-dip the rivets
> for the spars. Well, my common sense has gotten me into trouble
> before, so my question is this...
>
> Did anyone who scratch-built their wing spars wet-dip their solid
> rivets, and would I be wasting my time and money by doing so? Does
> Zenith dip theirs for the spars that are included with the kits?
>
> I'm priming the rest of the entire internal structure with the NAPA
> rattle-can primer, so on the outside, that would appear to be enough.
> But... they ARE the wing spars for cryin' out loud, so what do you
> think - dip, or no dip?
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight.
>
> Debo Cox
> Nags Head, NC
> XL/Corvair
> WOW (working on wings)
>
> do not archive
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
> rates starting at 1/min.
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com>
Message 32
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| Subject: | CH801 Glide Ratio? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Hi all,
I haven't been able to find any number on this during my exhaustive searches and
wondered if anyone has performed any tests that would provide any numbers to
this regard.
I seem to recall reading in one or two places the the 801 sinks pretty quickly
with no power. What's your experience?
Thanks and best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Still Dreaming of a CH801
Waunakee, WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45925#45925
Message 33
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|
Hi folks.
I'm new at posting to the list but I've been lurking for a couple of
months. I purchased my plans at Sun n' Fun and have them nearly worn
through in some spots but I have yet to order the kit. I decided to
build the engine first so I'm not facing that large hurdle once the
airframe is completed.
As for the engine, I chose the WW conversion also and I hope its not
considered rude for me to be rather passionate about the engine, just as
I have found the other builders either already flying, or currently
building, a WW conversion . After months of searching, I have not found
a better value available for the type of flying I wish to do in my
remaining years.
Engine choice is not something to be defended or attacked, its merely
one person's preference and right. When I saw the first Corvair
conversion start and run so smoothly and quietly I was 85% of the way to
being hooked. After reading WWs manual and speaking with WW in person,
as well as a few other Corvair conversion builders who were flying
behind their engines, I was 100% "converted". I mean, hey, a complete
engine, with prop, a decent safety record, compartitatively speaking,
ready to fly for about the the same amount as the deposit on a Jab or
Rotax was a no brainer for me. The good thing about it for me was that
I found what I consider to be a rational, straightforward discussion of
the pros and cons of the engine and associated risks of the systems
design.
Your case may be much different, and GOD Bless you and I'm sure your
choice is the best choice for you and your type of flying. I wish you
many years of safe and happy flying.
It is certainly not for me to tell you, or anyone else, that "the only
sensible decision uou can make is a Corvair conversion" because that is
NOT true for you if you chose a different option.
Anyway, once I get the engine assembled, running and tested I plan to
start on the kit. For the most part I know that the information in the
archives of this list will be of tremendous help to me and I want to
express my sincere gratitude for those of you, past, present and future,
who have contributed, and continue to contribute, to this tremendous
wealth of informationon on this great little airplane. It will be
invaluable to me in the coming months.
I look forward to the process with the confidence that there is a group
of dedicated souls who have already been where I have yet to tread, and
who freely give their input and assistance to fellow builders.
Thank you one and all.
Floyd H. Jamison
fhjamison@comcast.net
Ocala, Fl
Starting WW Engine conversion, yet to order kit.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Question for finished builders |
Brian, I've been thinking about it also and I came out with an answer
(my answer).
If I don't paint it before I fly it first, I'll never see an end to it.
Plus this adds to the dismantling and re-assembly time.
When it'll take off, it will be painted. Mind you, it is only MY
opinion.
Regards
Jean-Paul
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian kissinger
To: Matronics Post
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Question for finished builders
I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished
builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited
until later (and benefits either way).
The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get
my airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over
some time do the final detail work like paint, etc.
Thanks,
Brian "Brain" Kissinger
www.brainsflight.com
701 factory kit
fuselage on gear
finishing tail section
wings skeletons complete
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
rates starting at 1=A2/min.
Message 35
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|
I've hit a small snag with my first aileron. Unless I'm missing
something, there doesn't appear to be any rivet spacing called out
for the aileron tip where it mates to the front of the skin. Nothing
on the plan, nothing in the instructions, not even a detail picture
of the thing on the photo CD.
I marked the standard 10mm from the edge line.
I've included a picture...
[]
Thanks for the help,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL - Wings
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
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| Subject: | Re: Would you like sauce with those? |
Cool. Thanks for clearing that up Larry. No dip it is then. FYI, I got the milspec
info off the Zenith website - part of the "Chris Heinz Design College" section.
I figured I knew the answer, but that's one of those things you just need
to be sure about.
Thanks again.
Debo Cox
XL/corvair
do not archive
---------------------------------
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Would you like sauce with those? |
Let's hope they are no dip... I just finished mine up today and none of
them were dipped in anything...
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
Do Not Archive
http://www.n344rb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 3:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Would you like sauce with those?
OK, here's one for ya...
I'm in the research phase of building the wing spars for my XL. While
looking through the milspecs for solid riveting, I came across this:
"3.5 Corrosion prevention. When the rivet material is dissimilar to
the material being riveted (reference MIL-STD-171), the rivet hole,
countersink, and rivet shall be coated with zinc chromate primer in
accordance with TT-P-1757 prior to installation. The rivet shall be
installed while the primer is in the wet condition."
Since the solid rivet material is NOT dissimilar to the material being
riveted, common sense tells me that I don't need to wet-dip the rivets
for the spars. Well, my common sense has gotten me into trouble before,
so my question is this...
Did anyone who scratch-built their wing spars wet-dip their solid
rivets, and would I be wasting my time and money by doing so? Does
Zenith dip theirs for the spars that are included with the kits?
I'm priming the rest of the entire internal structure with the NAPA
rattle-can primer, so on the outside, that would appear to be enough.
But... they ARE the wing spars for cryin' out loud, so what do you think
- dip, or no dip?
Thanks in advance for any insight.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair
WOW (working on wings)
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
rates starting at 1=A2/min.
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Distributor shaft contributes to engine failure |
I would have to agree. If he was up at cruising altitude getting
performance data, then maybe he had just finished the engine. Having built many
engines and being ASE certified, the one thing that I have always done, is measure
the tolerance's of all components, including shaft play from the distributor.
As far as the WW conversion goes, Corvair stock distributors had one
bearing in them when they came out of the factory, as did many automotive factory
distributors. I have seen 2 distributors fail, out of thousands. Both of
these were with well over 100,000 miles on the distributor. WW has cut this
even further by installing a second bearing in the distributor shaft. He states
he has done this for safety and stability of the shaft. I think a
distributor failure is very few and far between and WW has lowered the failure
rate
even further by adding the second bearing. When I built my first WW Corvair
engine, I wired the dual points in complete separate systems, including a
backup battery that was wired for just the essentials to make a safe POWERED
landing. This system works well and can be tested separately when doing a run
up.
I have no reservations about WW's ignition system. I will fly anywhere
with this engine. My first engine had a nitrated crank and has been inspected
after 200 hrs. There was no cracks and it was returned to service.
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Flap mounting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <zman601xl@verizon.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
I drilled and rivetted the flap hinge when I was rivetting the bottom rear
skin. I had already pulled, cut to length and reinserted the pin in the flap
hinge and drilled the end barrels for safety wire. Once it was rivetted into
the rear channel of the wing, I pulled the pin and stored pin and flap for
later fitting to fuselage (unfortunately in the too distant future). Any
body got problem with that?
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
>
> Listers,
> Long time lurker. I read the list every day and most questions I have are
> answered before I need them. Now my question is about the wing flaps. I
> see that you do not install until after wing is mounted and plans show a
> do not rivet zone for the hinge. Do I fit the flap to the wing and drill
> for the hinge now and not rivet or not drill the hinge line until after
> wing is installed. I am ready to rivet the bottom skin and would like to
> deburr the trailing edge holes while they are easy to reach. Thanks
>
> Rodney Mills
> Northport, AL
> 601XL empenage done / Corvair done/ working on wings
Ed,
Thats exactly the way I did it.
Bob Haring
601XL
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder plans 6T4-2 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I think it makes a difference which version of the prints you
have. On my rudder kit there was a reasonable piece that finishes
the top of the rudder even though the other plans I got with the full
plans shows a fiberglass tip. As usual, I complained and got a
stupid response from Sebastian saying they had trouble with the
supplier of the fiberglass tip but he didn't offer any solution to the problem.
I think if you contact ZAC support they can send you a drawing of the
metal finish option on the rudder.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 01:18 PM 7/9/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JC Quiroga <jcarlo001@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Hi guys, Im building parts for my 601xl rudder. I
>noticed that the manual has part no 6T4-2(tip rib) but
>my plans doesn:t even show me the specs. the full
>photo of the rudder plans doesnt even show it:s
>needed. does that mean the new version doesn:t need
>that part at all?? or am I just misssing some pages on
>my plans. thanks for the help
>--- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
>
> > -->
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: New to the List |
Welcone to the list Floyd!
I can sure vouch for the fact that it is very satisfying to know that a
smooth running 6-cylinder is ready to install as soon as I finish the
airframe. It tends to provide that extra incentive when faced with those
inevitable times when things get a tad frustrating,
----- Original Message -----
From: FLOYD JAMISON
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 5:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: New to the List
Hi folks.
I'm new at posting to the list but I've been lurking for a couple of
months. I purchased my plans at Sun n' Fun and have them nearly worn
through in some spots but I have yet to order the kit. I decided to
build the engine first so I'm not facing that large hurdle once the
airframe is completed.
As for the engine, I chose the WW conversion also and I hope its not
considered rude for me to be rather passionate about the engine, just as
I have found the other builders either already flying, or currently
building, a WW conversion . After months of searching, I have not found
a better value available for the type of flying I wish to do in my
remaining years.
Engine choice is not something to be defended or attacked, its merely
one person's preference and right. When I saw the first Corvair
conversion start and run so smoothly and quietly I was 85% of the way to
being hooked. After reading WWs manual and speaking with WW in person,
as well as a few other Corvair conversion builders who were flying
behind their engines, I was 100% "converted". I mean, hey, a complete
engine, with prop, a decent safety record, compartitatively speaking,
ready to fly for about the the same amount as the deposit on a Jab or
Rotax was a no brainer for me. The good thing about it for me was that
I found what I consider to be a rational, straightforward discussion of
the pros and cons of the engine and associated risks of the systems
design.
Your case may be much different, and GOD Bless you and I'm sure your
choice is the best choice for you and your type of flying. I wish you
many years of safe and happy flying.
It is certainly not for me to tell you, or anyone else, that "the
only sensible decision uou can make is a Corvair conversion" because
that is NOT true for you if you chose a different option.
Anyway, once I get the engine assembled, running and tested I plan to
start on the kit. For the most part I know that the information in the
archives of this list will be of tremendous help to me and I want to
express my sincere gratitude for those of you, past, present and future,
who have contributed, and continue to contribute, to this tremendous
wealth of informationon on this great little airplane. It will be
invaluable to me in the coming months.
I look forward to the process with the confidence that there is a
group of dedicated souls who have already been where I have yet to
tread, and who freely give their input and assistance to fellow
builders.
Thank you one and all.
Floyd H. Jamison
fhjamison@comcast.net
Ocala, Fl
Starting WW Engine conversion, yet to order kit.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Flap mounting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lynn Dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
Rodney,
I also finish mounted the flaps, installed all rivets
(except the three on the top side where the flap stop mounts) and just
pulled the pin to detach 'till final assembly.
Lynn
Corry, PA
601XL, tail and wings done
Message 43
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|
I just looked at one of my completed ailerons and it's A4 pitch 40, but
I sure don't know if that is by the plans or just a "logical sort of
interpolation" - I suspect the latter. But your picture is confusing to
me 'cause it appears that the aileron end is like an equalateral
triangle - is this an optical illusion of sorts or what?
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen R. Look
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Tip
I've hit a small snag with my first aileron. Unless I'm missing
something, there doesn't appear to be any rivet spacing called out for
the aileron tip where it mates to the front of the skin. Nothing on the
plan, nothing in the instructions, not even a detail picture of the
thing on the photo CD.
I marked the standard 10mm from the edge line.
I've included a picture...
Thanks for the help,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL - Wings
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Flap mounting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@mchsi.com>
Ed- I've got no problem with it. I did the same thing but when I put the
wing on the fuselage, I wasn't happy with the distance between the edge of
the flap and the side skin of the fuselage. I ended up buying another
hinge, and used half of it to replace the half that fits to the wing, and
after setting the flap where I wanted it ( no binding) I re-drilled thru the
original holes in the wing attachment points. It worked out fine, just
extra work.
Al Young
601XL
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 6:11 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <zman601xl@verizon.net>
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> I drilled and rivetted the flap hinge when I was rivetting the bottom rear
> skin. I had already pulled, cut to length and reinserted the pin in the
> flap
> hinge and drilled the end barrels for safety wire. Once it was rivetted
> into
> the rear channel of the wing, I pulled the pin and stored pin and flap for
> later fitting to fuselage (unfortunately in the too distant future). Any
> body got problem with that?
>
> Ed Moody II
> Rayne, LA
> 601XL / 2nd wing
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
>>
>> Listers,
>> Long time lurker. I read the list every day and most questions I have are
>> answered before I need them. Now my question is about the wing flaps. I
>> see that you do not install until after wing is mounted and plans show a
>> do not rivet zone for the hinge. Do I fit the flap to the wing and drill
>> for the hinge now and not rivet or not drill the hinge line until after
>> wing is installed. I am ready to rivet the bottom skin and would like to
>> deburr the trailing edge holes while they are easy to reach. Thanks
>>
>> Rodney Mills
>> Northport, AL
>> 601XL empenage done / Corvair done/ working on wings
>
>
> Ed,
> Thats exactly the way I did it.
> Bob Haring
> 601XL
>
>
>
Message 45
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|
Steve- See 6-W-2. End holes plus 2 rivets A4 pitch 20 (each end). Tip
rib A4 pitch 40. If you ever get to Mattoon, Steve, check out my hanger
(14) Be glad to meet you.
Do Not Archive
Al Young
601XL (For sale)
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen R. Look
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Tip
I've hit a small snag with my first aileron. Unless I'm missing
something, there doesn't appear to be any rivet spacing called out for
the aileron tip where it mates to the front of the skin. Nothing on the
plan, nothing in the instructions, not even a detail picture of the
thing on the photo CD.
I marked the standard 10mm from the edge line.
I've included a picture...
Thanks for the help,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL - Wings
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Primer / paint question |
Hello, all
This is probably going to be obvious for a number of you.
I have applied a first coat of zinc chromate to some parts with a sponge brush.
In some spots, I get an ugly effect when applying the second coat.
It happens almost immediately.
All parts where previously scrubbed with scotch brite (color to remain unidentified),
and then
swiped with a clean rag. I always wear gloves while working. Cheaper than H2O2
and band-aids. And
avoids fingerprints.
Any ideas what causes this? I see no apparent pattern...
Carlos
Montreal, Canada
CH601-HD, plans
do not archive
__________________________________________________________
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Imagine, if you will, a brick! All kidding aside, it
is not a glider and probably gets about 5 or 6 to one.
Not published anywhere but I asked the question once
myself. Here is the thing. You have hundreds more
places to put her down than you would an aircraft with
a better glide ratio. And when you touch down you
will also be going much slower than you would be in a
good glider.
just my 2 cents
David
--- Chris In Madison <cowens@cnw.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In
> Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I haven't been able to find any number on this
> during my exhaustive searches and wondered if anyone
> has performed any tests that would provide any
> numbers to this regard.
>
> I seem to recall reading in one or two places the
> the 801 sinks pretty quickly with no power. What's
> your experience?
>
> Thanks and best regards,
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris Owens
> Still Dreaming of a CH801
> Waunakee, WI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45925#45925
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
__________________________________________________
Message 48
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| Subject: | Primer / paint question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Carlos,
You did not say how long the drying time for the first coat was. Is it
re-emulsifying with the second coat?
Somebody out there correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't two coats of zinc
chromate an overkill? It has been my understanding that a thin film is all
that is desired.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Hello, all
This is probably going to be obvious for a number of you.
I have applied a first coat of zinc chromate to some parts with a sponge
brush.
In some spots, I get an ugly effect when applying the second coat.
It happens almost immediately.
All parts where previously scrubbed with scotch brite (color to remain
unidentified), and then
swiped with a clean rag. I always wear gloves while working. Cheaper than
H2O2 and band-aids. And
avoids fingerprints.
Any ideas what causes this? I see no apparent pattern...
Carlos
Montreal, Canada
CH601-HD, plans
do not archive
__________________________________________________________
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Hi David,
Thanks for the reply. "Brick" is pretty much what I figured. But you're right
about the possible landing spots for that one, though. Seems like just about
anywhere will do. I took my first flight in one with a local EAA flyer last
week, and it looks like it does all kinds of interesting things.
Much appreciated :-)
Best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=46001#46001
Message 50
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| Subject: | Primer / paint question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Drying time was at least 48h...
It seems I can let it dry for days and it won't make a difference.
The strange thing is that it hapens in some areas and not in others, and it doesn't
seem to
depend on how "wet" it is.
Carlos
--- Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> a crit :
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> Carlos,
>
> You did not say how long the drying time for the first coat was. Is it
> re-emulsifying with the second coat?
>
> Somebody out there correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't two coats of zinc
> chromate an overkill? It has been my understanding that a thin film is all
> that is desired.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
> Tail done, working on wings....
__________________________________________________________
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder plans 6T4-2 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JC Quiroga <jcarlo001@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the response guys! It makes more sense
now. I got the drawing on zenith website... rudder
starter online drawings. I just cant figure out where
to file relief notches(where the flange bends would go
in to avoid the banana effect). I:d appreciate it if
someone can give me locations. Thanks//Jomar
--- Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I think it makes a difference which version of the
> prints you
> have. On my rudder kit there was a reasonable piece
> that finishes
> the top of the rudder even though the other plans I
> got with the full
> plans shows a fiberglass tip. As usual, I
> complained and got a
> stupid response from Sebastian saying they had
> trouble with the
> supplier of the fiberglass tip but he didn't offer
> any solution to the problem.
>
> I think if you contact ZAC support they can send you
> a drawing of the
> metal finish option on the rudder.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not archive
>
> At 01:18 PM 7/9/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JC Quiroga
> <jcarlo001@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >Hi guys, Im building parts for my 601xl rudder. I
> >noticed that the manual has part no 6T4-2(tip rib)
> but
> >my plans doesn:t even show me the specs. the full
> >photo of the rudder plans doesnt even show it:s
> >needed. does that mean the new version doesn:t need
> >that part at all?? or am I just misssing some pages
> on
> >my plans. thanks for the help
> >--- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> >
> > > -->
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Question for finished builders |
I painted mine in pieces before final assembly. No regrets.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH701 60 hrs
do not archive
In a message dated 7/9/2006 10:19:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
brainsflight@yahoo.com writes:
had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished builders who
painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited until later (and
benefits either way).
The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get my
airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over some time do
the final detail work like paint, etc.
Thanks,
Brian "Brain" Kissinger
_www.brainsflight.com_ (http://www.brainsflight.com/)
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Question for finished builders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
I wanted to fly so I did not do anything that wasn't necessary.
No paint (except the cowl), no upholstery, no wheel pants.
I do get the 'when are you going to paint it?' and 'someday you'll
install wheel pants, right?' comments. But, I'm flying and that's
what matters to me. Yeah, the plane shows my personality.
I'd rather fly than paint, and I like the bare metal - that's the
primary reason. Painted planes look good too - but different.
If you plan to paint it, do it before you fly.
You won't want to take the time after the first flight.
It goes without saying that this is my opinion - and what do I know???
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XL, 365 hours and still no paint
started May 2003, at AWO ready to fly Dec 2003
build time = 1077.5 hours
Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49 wood prop
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
On Sun, 9 Jul 2006, Brian kissinger wrote:
> I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished
> builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited
> until later (and benefits either way).
> Thanks, Brian "Brain" Kissinger
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