Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: A couple of 601XL Questions (Robert Schoenberger)
2. 04:35 AM - Tri-pacer vs. 801 was Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? (Frank Roskind)
3. 05:44 AM - Re: A couple of 601XL Questions + Daily Pic (N5SL)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? (Garrou, Douglas)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? (Dave Ruddiman)
6. 08:01 AM - Flanging dies + pic of the day (Debo Cox)
7. 09:06 AM - Re: A couple of 601XL Questions + Daily Pic (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
8. 09:11 AM - Re: Flanging dies + pic of the day (Robin Bellach)
9. 09:23 AM - Flanging dies (Randy L. Thwing)
10. 09:43 AM - Re: A couple of 601XL Questions (Tom and Bren Henderson)
11. 09:48 AM - Re: Flanging dies ()
12. 10:29 AM - Primer... Again... (Randy Bryant)
13. 10:31 AM - Re: Stopped prop in glide (EMAproducts@aol.com)
14. 10:58 AM - Re: Flanging dies + pic of the day (Robert L. Stone)
15. 11:31 AM - Re: Primer... Again... (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
16. 11:31 AM - Re: Primer... Again... (John Marzulli)
17. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: Stopped prop in glide (Randy Bryant)
18. 11:31 AM - Re: Primer... Again... (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
19. 12:05 PM - Canopy Pic of the Day (N5SL)
20. 12:07 PM - Re: Primer... Again... ()
21. 12:07 PM - Re: Primer... Again... (George Swinford)
22. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Stopped prop in glide (Gary Gower)
23. 12:09 PM - Re: A couple of 601XL Questions (2thesky)
24. 12:27 PM - Re: Primer... Again... (Randy Bryant)
25. 12:27 PM - Re: Primer... Again... (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
26. 12:39 PM - Re: Question for finished builders (Gary Gower)
27. 12:39 PM - More primer cans... (Zed Smith)
28. 01:00 PM - Re: To paint or not to paint (Gary Gower)
29. 01:02 PM - Re: Primer... Again... (Randy Bryant)
30. 01:25 PM - Re: Too Much Primer (N5SL)
31. 04:51 PM - Re: Posting (Gary Gower)
32. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Stopped prop in glide (James Ferris)
33. 05:26 PM - Re: Posting (Steve Hulland)
34. 05:33 PM - Re: A couple of 601XL Questions (Zodie Rocket)
35. 06:29 PM - Article about My Plane in the Star Ledger (Phil Maxson)
36. 07:28 PM - Re: Article about My Plane in the Star Ledger (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
37. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Stopped prop in glide (Randy Bryant)
38. 09:23 PM - Re: A couple of 601XL Questions (Randy L. Thwing)
39. 10:52 PM - Re: Article about My Plane in the Star Ledger (Mike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of 601XL Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Now, there's a man after my own heart!
>
> Not sure who said it, but it is told that everyone, at birth, is given
> a finite number of heartbeats. You guys out there running and such
> nonsense are just "wasting heartbeats"! (I do walk; and get in my
> squats and bend-overs on the XL)
>
> Jay in Dallas
> Do not archive
Neil Armstrong said it. Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | CH801 Glide Ratio? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind" <frankroskind@hotmail.com>
So what other comparisons can you make between the Tri-Pacer and the 801?
Tripacers seem to be among the least expnsive certified aircraft, and seem
worthy of consideration.
Hi
I tried figuring this out last nigh so I went flying. At 68 mph with no
power I was dropping 850'/min. 68 mph is 100'/sec or 6000'/min. That is a
glide ratio of 7:1. I do have 8.50x6 tires on the mains which is probably
bigger than the 8.00's every body else has. Coming from a background of
flying a Tri-pacer with large tires the glide ratio looks familiar.
When I'm flying over water I figure for every 1000' I'm up I can glide a
mile. Heck at 7:1, I may have enough altitude to fly a pattern.
As my buddy says "this ain't no Cessna". If you want Cessna performance,
you should buy a Cessna!
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, AK
Finally flying after fixing what I broke. Soon to be on floats.
260 Hrs
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of 601XL Questions + Daily Pic |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi John:
That would be me with the upside down front cover. If
you look closely you will see some other things that
are different (the front flashing runs under the side
flashing). I'm trying to get a tight seal when the
canopy is closed so I'm experimenting with different
arrangements. It takes two seconds to bend a new
cover and I've got gobs of spare .025" and .020"
pieces laying around.
I may move the location of the bend to the middle and
try that next if I can't get this way to seal. Thanks
for noticing and I'm glad my picture could prompt some
discussion on this matter. Let me know your yours
fits.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
--- John Anderson <ande437@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> We are at exactly the same place with the canopy.
> One of us has the
> outside front cover of the square tubing on upside
> down.
__________________________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
Ack! Since he sent you the note and appeared to be in good spirits, I trust he
got down okay. What were the circumstances? Fuel starvation, engine failure,
type of engine, etc.? Extent of damage?
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
I received a note this morning from Dave Zilz, a young man whose 801 recently lost
an engine during flight. At his best estimate, the aircraft sunk at about
2.3:1, only traveling about 1.5 miles from 3500 feet.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CH801 Glide Ratio? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
WHAT KIND OF ENGINE?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:14 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
>
> Ack! Since he sent you the note and appeared to be in good spirits, I
> trust he got down okay. What were the circumstances? Fuel starvation,
> engine failure, type of engine, etc.? Extent of damage?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
>
> I received a note this morning from Dave Zilz, a young man whose 801
> recently lost
> an engine during flight. At his best estimate, the aircraft sunk at about
> 2.3:1, only traveling about 1.5 miles from 3500 feet.
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Flanging dies + pic of the day |
Since there's been some recent discussion about flanging dies, I thought I'd post
a pic of the ones I made this morning. I've pretty much been fretting about
making these since I started this project, and here's what I learned in the process.
a. They're really easy to make. I used a band saw to cut out the blanks, a wood
lathe to turn the male die, and a jig saw and 45 degree router bit to make
the female. I used the drawings in the Zenith builders manual as a guide. They're
made out of "Timbertech" - a decking material - kinda like plastic. Took me
2 hours from waking up to testing them out with my shop press. Worked great.
Perfectly flanged holes BOOM - that fast.
b. It took me a year to think about, and two hours to make. My lesson to myself
is don't get caught up in "analysis paralysis" and just go ahead and make the
&#!$%# things. Exercise caution, but move forward. Hasn't really been a problem
with me, but a good reminder.
c. The most important tool in your shop is between your ears.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of 601XL Questions + Daily Pic |
Scott,
Yours looks much better that way... I was thinking of making a new one
because the on I got with the kit isn't tall enough IMO and if you look at some
of
the pic's in the photo assy. guide a few of theirs is more like yours.
Jeff
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging dies + pic of the day |
SLICK! Especially nice rodent proofing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging dies + pic of the day
Since there's been some recent discussion about flanging dies, I
thought I'd post a pic of the ones I made this morning. I've pretty much
been fretting about making these since I started this project, and
here's what I learned in the process.
a. They're really easy to make. I used a band saw to cut out the
blanks, a wood lathe to turn the male die, and a jig saw and 45 degree
router bit to make the female. I used the drawings in the Zenith
builders manual as a guide. They're made out of "Timbertech" - a decking
material - kinda like plastic. Took me 2 hours from waking up to testing
them out with my shop press. Worked great. Perfectly flanged holes BOOM
- that fast...
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 9
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When using flanging dies of any type, after you cut the holes, make sure
you sand the inside of the hole until you can run your finger around the
inside edge and feel NO nicks or other imperfections. Any nick can
cause the flange to crack while it is being formed. I ruined a nose rib
learning this lesson.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of 601XL Questions |
I'm not sure who said it either, but I'm guessing he came up with it in front
of a TV Dinner and a 6-pack. If we're given a finite number of heart beats,
I should have died long ago. lol Between three sports a year from grade school
through high school and College wrestling and football through four years
of college, I think I've used 'em up! Funny, but I'm still going strong!
: )
Keep up the exercise guys, and we'll be the 95 year olds walking past the 65
year old guys in the 'lil rascals scooters on oxygen. Work, it does a body
good...
DEFINITELY do not archive
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: Now, there's a man after my own heart!
Not sure who said it, but it is told that everyone, at birth, is given a finite
number of heartbeats. You guys out there running and such nonsense are just
"wasting heartbeats"! (I do walk; and get in my squats and bend-overs on the
XL)
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging dies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Yep, I learned the value of smoothing and finishing edges helping a friend build
his first UL airplane. Every time I worked with him on the plane I came away
as cut up as if I had been in a cat fight. Now I'm helping him build an RV7-A
and fortunatley all the carping has sunken in. His plane isn't a trauma center
this time.
Ed Moody II
Do Not Archive
---- "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote:
> When using flanging dies of any type, after you cut the holes, make sure you
sand the inside of the hole until you can run your finger around the inside edge
and feel NO nicks or other imperfections.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Primer... Again... |
This priming is getting way out of hand...
I decided to use NAPA (Martin Senour) 7220 self etching primer on my XL
back in October 2005 when I first started building. At that time I was
paying $2.98 per can from my local NAPA store... I bought a case of 6
cans... The next case of 6 I bought from the same store cost me
$3.72... About 2 months ago, I bought another case of 6 cans from the
same store and the price had rose to $4.78 per can... I thought this
was outrageous... THEN this past Monday I called the same store and
ordered another case of 6 cans... Today I went there to pick them up and
the price was $6.72 per can!! WOW! In less than 1 year, this primer
has gone from $2.98 per can to $6.72 per can, a 225% increase in 9
months!!
Has/Is anyone else using this same primer and experiencing the same
issue??
Thanks in advance,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Stopped prop in glide |
In a message dated 7/13/2006 12:10:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
zenith-list@matronics.com writes:
I've always read that a windmilling
prop created more drag than a stopped one. Some have even suggested to
try to stop a prop by stalling, to increase the glide. That sounds
kinda flakey to me, but to each his own.
IF the stopped prop didn't create less drag why would all the aircraft
companies install a feathering prop on their twin engine aircraft? Get with a
knowledgeable professional pilot or CFI and have it explained it to you.
Feathering stops the rotation basically, it also cuts down on drag but the non
rotating is much more important than the actual feathering of the prop. Many
light twins will not maintain altitude with the prop wind-milling on one engine.
Elbie Mendenhall
Pitts Specials to F-27's and most in-between.
DO NOT ARCIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging dies + pic of the day |
Hay Debo,
It looks like they smell good too, at least to your cat. LOL
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
XL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging dies + pic of the day
Since there's been some recent discussion about flanging dies, I
thought I'd post a pic of the ones I made this morning. I've pretty much
been fretting about making these since I started this project, and
here's what I learned in the process.
a. They're really easy to make. I used a band saw to cut out the
blanks, a wood lathe to turn the male die, and a jig saw and 45 degree
router bit to make the female. I used the drawings in the Zenith
builders manual as a guide. They're made out of "Timbertech" - a decking
material - kinda like plastic. Took me 2 hours from waking up to testing
them out with my shop press. Worked great. Perfectly flanged holes BOOM
- that fast.
b. It took me a year to think about, and two hours to make. My lesson
to myself is don't get caught up in "analysis paralysis" and just go
ahead and make the &#!$%# things. Exercise caution, but move forward.
Hasn't really been a problem with me, but a good reminder.
c. The most important tool in your shop is between your ears.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Primer... Again... |
Randy, just a thought, but what are you spraying with all this primer ? You
know I'm only a jake-leg builder, but I didn't use six cans of zinc chromate in
the whole plane. Fact is I have a half full one at the hanger. Just how thick
are you putting this stuff on ? Are you coming down to go flying this weekend
? If so, I'll meet you at the hanger early Saturday morning. (7:30ish) I need
someone to test the brakes on the right side. Best regards, Bill
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Primer... Again... |
No, but West Marine sells Zinc Cromate for ~$15/can. The new Wicks up in
Arlignton sells it for ~$6/can
On 7/13/06, Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
>
> This priming is getting way out of hand...
>
> I decided to use NAPA (Martin Senour) 7220 self etching primer on my XL
> back in October 2005 when I first started building. At that time I was
> paying $2.98 per can from my local NAPA store... I bought a case of 6
> cans... The next case of 6 I bought from the same store cost me $3.72...
> About 2 months ago, I bought another case of 6 cans from the same store and
> the price had rose to $4.78 per can... I thought this was outrageous...
> THEN this past Monday I called the same store and ordered another case of 6
> cans... Today I went there to pick them up and the price was $6.72 per
> can!! WOW! In less than 1 year, this primer has gone from $2.98 per can to
> $6.72 per can, a 225% increase in 9 months!!
>
> Has/Is anyone else using this same primer and experiencing the same
> issue??
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Randy
> XL Wings - Plans Only
> http://www.n344rb.com
> Do Not Archive
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Stopped prop in glide |
It seems to me that a windmilling prop, would cause more drag. If the
blades stop turning on a helicopter, it won't be able to autogyro and
would fall like a rock...
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: EMAproducts@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 1:28 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stopped prop in glide
In a message dated 7/13/2006 12:10:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
zenith-list@matronics.com writes:
I've always read that a windmilling
prop created more drag than a stopped one. Some have even suggested
to
try to stop a prop by stalling, to increase the glide. That sounds
kinda flakey to me, but to each his own.
IF the stopped prop didn't create less drag why would all the aircraft
companies install a feathering prop on their twin engine aircraft? Get
with a knowledgeable professional pilot or CFI and have it explained it
to you. Feathering stops the rotation basically, it also cuts down on
drag but the non rotating is much more important than the actual
feathering of the prop. Many light twins will not maintain altitude with
the prop wind-milling on one engine.
Elbie Mendenhall
Pitts Specials to F-27's and most in-between.
DO NOT ARCIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Primer... Again... |
Yes but I have to ask what on Earth are you doing with all that primer?
ZAC recomends painting the overlaping joints only...Which is what i did
some 7 years ago and the last inspection showed the internals to be as
sparkling as the day i assembled the joints. Even building the HDS from
plans I think I used the equivilent of about 10 cans total.
Of course if you are priming all internal surfaces (live next to the
ocean) I understand but the weight of that paint does add up.
Incidently, Van's recommends priming ALL surfaces of 6061-T6 for
corrosion protection.....Guess I saved quite a bit of weight...And
cost...by not doing so!
I guess I used 8 cans total in my QB RV7.
By the way if you think this is expensive, just wait till you get to buy
real paint...About $250 to $450 a gallon for Polyeurathane, and the RV
at least will use about 2.5 gallons...Gulp!
Cheers
Frank
Do not archive
________________________________
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:23 AM
This priming is getting way out of hand...
I decided to use NAPA (Martin Senour) 7220 self etching primer on my XL
back in October 2005 when I first started building. At that time I was
paying $2.98 per can from my local NAPA store... I bought a case of 6
cans... The next case of 6 I bought from the same store cost me
$3.72... About 2 months ago, I bought another case of 6 cans from the
same store and the price had rose to $4.78 per can... I thought this
was outrageous... THEN this past Monday I called the same store and
ordered another case of 6 cans... Today I went there to pick them up and
the price was $6.72 per can!! WOW! In less than 1 year, this primer
has gone from $2.98 per can to $6.72 per can, a 225% increase in 9
months!!
Has/Is anyone else using this same primer and experiencing the same
issue??
Thanks in advance,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Canopy Pic of the Day |
Guys:
I'm working on my canopy latch lever so I removed the
outside flashing to figure it out. I'm building my
lever mechanism from scratch (crazy, I know) so I'm
doing a little head scratching right now. Anyway,
attached is my pic of the day since I have not seen
this view in any of the manuals or other websites.
Debo - great picture of the flanging dies. My
daughter was happy to see a cat in the picture.
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
601XL
__________________________________________________
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Primer... Again... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Here in sultry southwest Louisiana, everything except glass and Lexan rusts like
crazy....... We're 50 miles form the Gulf of Mexico but only 20 - 25 miles from
salt marsh. We are also an agricultural area and the ag planes (corrosive
fertilizer) use the same small airport where I hangar. I'm priming everything
that overlaps or can't get painted when the plane is built.
I've been using self etching aviation green zinc oxide primer in rattle cans from
ACS @ around $7 per can. In fact after work today, I'm going to prime the ribs
and spars of the left wing. It may be an overkill precaution but I'd rather
do that and not regret it later. It may even increase the resale value when
I have died form the fumes.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
Do Not Archive
---- Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
> This priming is getting way out of hand...
> Has/Is anyone else using this same primer and experiencing the same issue??
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Primer... Again... |
FWIW;
I primed most of my interior surfaces with Mar-Hyde self-etching gray
primer. It dries to a smooth finish and seems to stick very well. I
scuffed the parts with Scotchbrite (watch the NY Times for disclosure of
the secret color), washed them with dish detergent, wiped them down with
lacquer thinner and sprayed the primer from a rattle can. The only
drawback is the price of $16 per can.
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Primer... Again...
Yes but I have to ask what on Earth are you doing with all that
primer? ZAC recomends painting the overlaping joints only...Which is
what i did some 7 years ago and the last inspection showed the internals
to be as sparkling as the day i assembled the joints. Even building the
HDS from plans I think I used the equivilent of about 10 cans total.
Of course if you are priming all internal surfaces (live next to the
ocean) I understand but the weight of that paint does add up.
Incidently, Van's recommends priming ALL surfaces of 6061-T6 for
corrosion protection.....Guess I saved quite a bit of weight...And
cost...by not doing so!
I guess I used 8 cans total in my QB RV7.
By the way if you think this is expensive, just wait till you get to
buy real paint...About $250 to $450 a gallon for Polyeurathane, and the
RV at least will use about 2.5 gallons...Gulp!
Cheers
Frank
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:23 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer... Again...
This priming is getting way out of hand...
I decided to use NAPA (Martin Senour) 7220 self etching primer on my
XL back in October 2005 when I first started building. At that time I
was paying $2.98 per can from my local NAPA store... I bought a case of
6 cans... The next case of 6 I bought from the same store cost me
$3.72... About 2 months ago, I bought another case of 6 cans from the
same store and the price had rose to $4.78 per can... I thought this
was outrageous... THEN this past Monday I called the same store and
ordered another case of 6 cans... Today I went there to pick them up and
the price was $6.72 per can!! WOW! In less than 1 year, this primer
has gone from $2.98 per can to $6.72 per can, a 225% increase in 9
months!!
Has/Is anyone else using this same primer and experiencing the same
issue??
Thanks in advance,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Stopped prop in glide |
More easy:
How do the Girocopters fly? Imagine the "drag" needed to keep them in the
air, they only have the power of the pushing (or pulling in Autogiros) propeller
to keep them in the air.
What will happen IF their "big" propeller will stop in the air, Sure we can
imagine that...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
No experience in Giro's, Just what I have read.
Do not archive
EMAproducts@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/13/2006 12:10:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, zenith-list@matronics.com
writes:
I've always read that a windmilling
prop created more drag than a stopped one. Some have even suggested to
try to stop a prop by stalling, to increase the glide. That sounds
kinda flakey to me, but to each his own.
IF the stopped prop didn't create less drag why would all the aircraft companies
install a feathering prop on their twin engine aircraft? Get with a knowledgeable
professional pilot or CFI and have it explained it to you. Feathering
stops the rotation basically, it also cuts down on drag but the non rotating
is much more important than the actual feathering of the prop. Many light twins
will not maintain altitude with the prop wind-milling on one engine.
Elbie Mendenhall
Pitts Specials to F-27's and most in-between.
DO NOT ARCIVE
---------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of 601XL Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
You guys are all sick! I post a question about airplanes, my favorite...uh-hum...second
favorite thing, and you guys start talking about EXERCISE?!?!?!?
THe reason I have hobbies is to keep me from doing such horrific things. Come
to think of it, though, I have been doing lots of 12 ounce curls. Running?
Only if Krispy Kreme is getting ready to close or there is a bus load of people
headed for the buffet! I have heard of a "runners high" that they get after
running a couple of miles. I get the same thing out of a flight of stairs.
I tell folks that the reason for my large middle is that I need a low center
of gravity for my job, or that when you have a tool like mine, you got to build
a shed over it. :)
Definitely do not archive
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=46932#46932
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Primer... Again... |
Well, I'm a scratch builder, so I totally primed all the surfaces of my
spars...something kit buiders don't have the option to do. I primed all
of my wings ribs, aileron ribs, flap ribs, HS ribs, elevator ribs,
insides of the skins on everything so far. On the skins, I put a really
good coat where any of the ribs are joined to the skins, and the rest of
the skin, gets "fogged"...just a light coat...
I've read, read and read again about priming, why to prime, why not to
prime..etc... My priming may be over-kill, and I don't live close to
the ocean, although there is quite a bit of rain here and it stays
rather damp, but mostly I'm priming for my own peace of mind...
By the way if you think this is expensive, just wait till you get to buy
real paint...About $250 to $450 a gallon for Polyeurathane, and the RV
at least will use about 2.5 gallons...Gulp!
I'm not bitching about the "price", just curious as to why a 250% price
increase in 9 months???
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Primer... Again...
Yes but I have to ask what on Earth are you doing with all that
primer? ZAC recomends painting the overlaping joints only...Which is
what i did some 7 years ago and the last inspection showed the internals
to be as sparkling as the day i assembled the joints. Even building the
HDS from plans I think I used the equivilent of about 10 cans total.
Of course if you are priming all internal surfaces (live next to the
ocean) I understand but the weight of that paint does add up.
Incidently, Van's recommends priming ALL surfaces of 6061-T6 for
corrosion protection.....Guess I saved quite a bit of weight...And
cost...by not doing so!
I guess I used 8 cans total in my QB RV7.
By the way if you think this is expensive, just wait till you get to
buy real paint...About $250 to $450 a gallon for Polyeurathane, and the
RV at least will use about 2.5 gallons...Gulp!
Cheers
Frank
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:23 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer... Again...
This priming is getting way out of hand...
I decided to use NAPA (Martin Senour) 7220 self etching primer on my
XL back in October 2005 when I first started building. At that time I
was paying $2.98 per can from my local NAPA store... I bought a case of
6 cans... The next case of 6 I bought from the same store cost me
$3.72... About 2 months ago, I bought another case of 6 cans from the
same store and the price had rose to $4.78 per can... I thought this
was outrageous... THEN this past Monday I called the same store and
ordered another case of 6 cans... Today I went there to pick them up and
the price was $6.72 per can!! WOW! In less than 1 year, this primer
has gone from $2.98 per can to $6.72 per can, a 225% increase in 9
months!!
Has/Is anyone else using this same primer and experiencing the same
issue??
Thanks in advance,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Primer... Again... |
Frank, that is 2.5 gallons of spray paint, right ? That is after mixing 4 to
1 with catalyst, shine enhancer, fisheye drops and adding reducer. I used less
than a gallon of base paint to paint my XL, but with additives it worked out
to about 1.7 gallons. I agree on the weight issue. Too much paint is a waste
of fuel and speed and baggage carrying ability. I bought paint a gallon at a
time, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Question for finished builders |
Bill,
That makes a lot diference in building hours... When we finished our 701, we
could understand why the factory estimated building hours never match with the
real hours invested in building. Same "inside" the airplane that outside.
Over detailing an airplane could never make his first flight :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
Brian, how you paint, when and with what is a personal touch and is really the
only large imprint you will make on your plane. I was at the hanger for a flight
Saturday morning and afterwards some adjustments. The fellow next door was
working on his RV 9. His plane is complete structure and he's wiring now. He
received a call that a pal of his was arriving in a bit in his RV9 so I was expectant.
The plane arrived and at a distance looked ok. Now I am no airplane
building master, but the fit and finish of this plane was very poor. Bucked up
skin edges on the fuselage, un even rivets lines and heads, long thick ugly paint
runs, rough edges that looked like they were cut with a hack saw. Even had
a trim line side that looked like a child had put it on with a Magic Marker.
To say the least it was very disappointing. My hanger neighbor's plane is a marvel
of perfect finish and attention to detail as his many years in the aircraft
industry would reflect. After the RV had
departed he to indicated his disappointment in the plane as well. Long story,
short answer. If the outside looks like crap the prudent pilot would reason that
the insides were questionable as well. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
---------------------------------
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 27
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| Subject: | More primer cans... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
You guys might want to see if there is a refund on the empty cans....similar to
the refundable deposit on some soft drink containers.
Or, if the can is aluminum, you can save on material costs.
Some inventive soul might use the spray nozzle valves for sump drains.
Possibilities abound!
Regards to all,
Zed.....101 degrees F. in North Texas
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: To paint or not to paint |
I think that if one builder decides to fly first and paint later, the best second
option will be to polish the metal, some part every week end and add some
trim, Yes I know, lots of cleaning and repolishing later, but will be a beautiful
airplane.
Just a thought.
Saludos
Gary Gower
do not archive.
LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
Bill,
I believe it's best to paint first, if you've got confidence in the work
you did. It seems that when flying, you accumulate a greasy smog from
the air
and soot on the underbelly while flying and adjusting the carbs. Bugs
and birds do their thing really well too. Even when you clean the plane
regularly,
it's always a surprise how much crud and stuff has accumulated between
the jointed parts. One of the reasons I believe you add 100 hours or more
in exchange for flying it for a year or more before paint. There are
chemicals to clean the stuff, but you've got a lot of riveted seams in
the plane that
will also have oil and grease, etc packed between them which makes it a
doubly difficult job to do after the fact. I've been in paint mode
since starting
the booth in April and so far, only the small parts, are painted, tail
feathers are in prime and the wings and fuselage are still in the
hangar. It's fussy work
but I was forewarned. Hope to fly again sometime near September.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> All-
> My question is, does flying an unpainted plane make it harder to
> paint later (Apart from just wanting to keep flying it)?
> I'm sure I'm going to tweak something after flying it, and figure
> it's easier to do while the plane is green. Also, there are a couple
> of good aircraft painters who have their own hangars within a 50 mile
> radius. I'll probably wind up with a better job than I could do having
> them spray the primer and major color coats and just do the trim myself.
> Incidentally, I heard from EAA about the article. A go no-go
> decision will have to wait until after Oshkosh.
>
> Bill
> do not archive
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Primer... Again... |
That's basically the steps I take:
I wash my parts with Dawn dishwashing liquid, using scotch brite, then
after it's all scuffed, I use a cloth to finish the washing, dry it off,
and wipe it down with MEK, then spray the 7220 primer on it...
Again, I'm not really bitching about the price of the 7220... Just
curious why in a 9 month span, the price increased 225%??? This was one
of the most appealing things to me when I decided to use the
7220...price and the fact I could pick it up at my local store...
I mean, gasoline has increased a bit over 100% in cost over the past 2
years and you'd think it was the end of the world for some people...my
primer has increased 225%...
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: George Swinford
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer... Again...
FWIW;
I primed most of my interior surfaces with Mar-Hyde self-etching gray
primer. It dries to a smooth finish and seems to stick very well. I
scuffed the parts with Scotchbrite (watch the NY Times for disclosure of
the secret color), washed them with dish detergent, wiped them down with
lacquer thinner and sprayed the primer from a rattle can. The only
drawback is the price of $16 per can.
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Primer... Again...
Yes but I have to ask what on Earth are you doing with all that
primer? ZAC recomends painting the overlaping joints only...Which is
what i did some 7 years ago and the last inspection showed the internals
to be as sparkling as the day i assembled the joints. Even building the
HDS from plans I think I used the equivilent of about 10 cans total.
Of course if you are priming all internal surfaces (live next to the
ocean) I understand but the weight of that paint does add up.
Incidently, Van's recommends priming ALL surfaces of 6061-T6 for
corrosion protection.....Guess I saved quite a bit of weight...And
cost...by not doing so!
I guess I used 8 cans total in my QB RV7.
By the way if you think this is expensive, just wait till you get to
buy real paint...About $250 to $450 a gallon for Polyeurathane, and the
RV at least will use about 2.5 gallons...Gulp!
Cheers
Frank
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:23 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer... Again...
This priming is getting way out of hand...
I decided to use NAPA (Martin Senour) 7220 self etching primer on my
XL back in October 2005 when I first started building. At that time I
was paying $2.98 per can from my local NAPA store... I bought a case of
6 cans... The next case of 6 I bought from the same store cost me
$3.72... About 2 months ago, I bought another case of 6 cans from the
same store and the price had rose to $4.78 per can... I thought this
was outrageous... THEN this past Monday I called the same store and
ordered another case of 6 cans... Today I went there to pick them up and
the price was $6.72 per can!! WOW! In less than 1 year, this primer
has gone from $2.98 per can to $6.72 per can, a 225% increase in 9
months!!
Has/Is anyone else using this same primer and experiencing the same
issue??
Thanks in advance,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Too Much Primer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
I, too did something very bad since most of my hard-to
reach areas are fully coated with a light coat of
primer. This photo with the help of my two lovely
assistance shows the err of my ways:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/6_13_04_BellyFinished.JPG
And to make matters worse, I fogged the whole inside
with a light coat of white:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_20_04_FloorPan.JPG
Bad, bad me.
Scott(DO NOT ARCHIVE)Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
601XL
www.cooknwithgas.com
--- George Swinford <grs-pms@comcast.net> wrote:
> FWIW;
>
> I primed most of my interior surfaces with Mar-Hyde
> self-etching gray primer. It dries to a smooth
> finish and seems to stick very well. I scuffed the
> parts with Scotchbrite (watch the NY Times for
> disclosure of the secret color), washed them with
> dish detergent, wiped them down with lacquer thinner
> and sprayed the primer from a rattle can.
__________________________________________________
Message 31
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|
"Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Guys,
I am a brand new member of the Zenith-List as yesterday. I am not sure
that this will be posted because I am not sure the I have received the second
e-mail from the guy who manages the list. I guess that would be Mat Drail (I
hope I got his name right.)
Anyway what I want to say is this. When you post a message you should end
it with your name and where you live. I am just starting a ZodiacXL and would
like to get to know some of the other people who are building the same airplane.
Here is an example of what I would like to see on every message posted
to this list.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
rstone4@hot.rr.com
Yes Sir!
Welcome to the list, Sir. :-)
Welcome Bob, Glad to have you here.
Saludos
Gary Gower, Chapala, Mexico. (is OK?)
Flying from Chapala, Mexico
701 912S.
Building a 601 XL.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Stopped prop in glide |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
When you say that the nonrotating is much more
important than the actual feathering of the prop you
are saying that the airfoil of the prop has more drag
than the flat plate area of the prop and that is
nonsense.
Jim
--- Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
> It seems to me that a windmilling prop, would cause
> more drag. If the blades stop turning on a
> helicopter, it won't be able to autogyro and would
> fall like a rock...
>
> Randy
> XL Wings - Plans Only
> http://www.n344rb.com
> Do Not Archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EMAproducts@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 1:28 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stopped prop in glide
>
>
> In a message dated 7/13/2006 12:10:01 A.M. Pacific
> Standard Time, zenith-list@matronics.com writes:
> I've always read that a windmilling
> prop created more drag than a stopped one. Some
> have even suggested to
> try to stop a prop by stalling, to increase the
> glide. That sounds
> kinda flakey to me, but to each his own.
>
> IF the stopped prop didn't create less drag why
> would all the aircraft companies install a
> feathering prop on their twin engine aircraft? Get
> with a knowledgeable professional pilot or CFI and
> have it explained it to you. Feathering stops the
> rotation basically, it also cuts down on drag but
> the non rotating is much more important than the
> actual feathering of the prop. Many light twins will
> not maintain altitude with the prop wind-milling on
> one engine.
> Elbie Mendenhall
> Pitts Specials to F-27's and most in-between.
> DO NOT ARCIVE
>
__________________________________________________
Message 33
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|
Bob,
I suspect my standard signature should work well. Don't forget to put "Do
Not Archive" on any message that you do not or should not have put on the
archive disk. With those words your email will automatically forgo being
archived. Only germane airplane stuff should be archived.
Also, send small pictures so that you do not overload those who only have
dial up access.
Finally, delete the orig. message when you return email in order to keep the
thread shorter and avoid unnecessary repeats.
All common email protocol, some use them, some don't, but so what!!
Do Not Archive
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 34
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| Subject: | A couple of 601XL Questions |
Gents if you happen to see me running down the road, it is due to the
fact that my wife just found out how much I spent on the instrument
panel ! Don=92t stop ! Just back up and run me over ! It will be a more
humane death then at the hands of a woman wanting a hot tub but lost
over the planes panel!
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:55 PM
If any of you guys sees me out there running up and down the road...STOP
and help me! 1 of 2 bad things have happened: Either I'm out of gas,
or if you look just behind me, something really big and mean will be
chasing me!
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
HYPERLINK "http://www.n344rb.com"http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
"mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com"zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 6:15 PM
Now, there's a man after my own heart!
Not sure who said it, but it is told that everyone, at birth, is given a
finite number of heartbeats. You guys out there running and such
nonsense are just "wasting heartbeats"! (I do walk; and get in my
squats and bend-overs on the XL)
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/13/2006
--
7/13/2006
Message 35
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| Subject: | Article about My Plane in the Star Ledger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
There was a nice article today in the New Jersey Star Ledger, the local
newspaper for Northern New Jersey. Here is a link:
http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1152765277302310.xml?starledger?nwt&coll=1
There was a nice large color picture of me at the controls with Hackettstown
behind me through the bubble canopy. Unfortunately, the picture didn't get
published on the web version of the story. Well, you'll just have to
imagine how handsome I am. ;-)
Phil Maxson
N601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Article about My Plane in the Star Ledger |
Phil, being from down South many of us are just not sure. We all thought
north New Jersey was New York. Where did I put that map ? Nice looking plane,
but
the guy looks way too happy, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
do not archive
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Stopped prop in glide |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
I'm saying that a rotating prop must cause more drag than a non-rotating
prop. I'm sure that if an engine went out on a helicopter, I'd bet next
week's paycheck that the pilot had rather still have the rotor turning while
coming down, that the rotor locked up and not turning...
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:22 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
>
> When you say that the nonrotating is much more
> important than the actual feathering of the prop you
> are saying that the airfoil of the prop has more drag
> than the flat plate area of the prop and that is
> nonsense.
> Jim
> --- Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that a windmilling prop, would cause
>> more drag. If the blades stop turning on a
>> helicopter, it won't be able to autogyro and would
>> fall like a rock...
>>
>> Randy
>> XL Wings - Plans Only
>> http://www.n344rb.com
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: EMAproducts@aol.com
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 1:28 PM
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stopped prop in glide
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/13/2006 12:10:01 A.M. Pacific
>> Standard Time, zenith-list@matronics.com writes:
>> I've always read that a windmilling
>> prop created more drag than a stopped one. Some
>> have even suggested to
>> try to stop a prop by stalling, to increase the
>> glide. That sounds
>> kinda flakey to me, but to each his own.
>>
>> IF the stopped prop didn't create less drag why
>> would all the aircraft companies install a
>> feathering prop on their twin engine aircraft? Get
>> with a knowledgeable professional pilot or CFI and
>> have it explained it to you. Feathering stops the
>> rotation basically, it also cuts down on drag but
>> the non rotating is much more important than the
>> actual feathering of the prop. Many light twins will
>> not maintain altitude with the prop wind-milling on
>> one engine.
>> Elbie Mendenhall
>> Pitts Specials to F-27's and most in-between.
>> DO NOT ARCIVE
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of 601XL Questions |
"It will be a more humane death then at the hands of a woman wanting a
hot tub but lost"
A really grave error has been committed here, a stark choice of where
money is to be distributed. The mistake is common, it happens often. I
learned long ago what is the right choice. I am involved with several
airplanes, but I fully understand the path that should be followed. To
do otherwise is to try to alter a basic fact of the universe. I'm as
cheap as anyone when it comes to most things. I shop hard and try to
stretch my dollars as far as possible. Airplanes are a driving force in
my life, but I don't assume to deny THE driving force. Alas, even
aviation takes a back seat to this undeniable force that drives us all.
One place I have never been miserly, the one area where money should
never be spared and should take precedence over all other investments is
this:
I have never spared any expense, in any area, for any thing, that
encourages women to take their clothes off.
A hot tub is one of the best investments in this endeavor. I bought one
years ago and the investment has paid off handsomely. Small investments
in this direction, allow huge aviation investments to flow.
Please forgive me,
I couldn't resist,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Article about My Plane in the Star Ledger |
Congrats Phil, nice article. The local newspaper out here did a similar story on
me, full page color w/picture. That was over a year ago, and I'm still not finished,
so I'm hoping they don't contact me any time soon for a follow up. :)
Mike Fortunato
do not archive
Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson"
There was a nice article today in the New Jersey Star Ledger, the local
newspaper for Northern New Jersey. Here is a link:
http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1152765277302310.xml?starledger?nwt&coll=1
There was a nice large color picture of me at the controls with Hackettstown
behind me through the bubble canopy. Unfortunately, the picture didn't get
published on the web version of the story. Well, you'll just have to
imagine how handsome I am. ;-)
Phil Maxson
N601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
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