Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Re: 601 Hat with tail number (Geoff Heap)
2. 04:50 AM - Re: Rent What? (Geoff Heap)
3. 05:06 AM - Good service (Edward Moody II)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: What i did on my summer vacation, OR New paint (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 07:07 AM - Re: Good service (Robert L. Stone)
6. 07:19 AM - Re: GPS (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
7. 07:55 AM - Re: Good service ()
8. 08:29 AM - 601XL & 0235 Lyc main gear orientation (victor verdev)
9. 08:38 AM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Gary Gower)
10. 08:58 AM - Re: GPS (B Johnson)
11. 08:59 AM - Re: Good service (Rivet Gun) (Terry Turnquist)
12. 09:49 AM - Question...favor... (Randy Bryant)
13. 10:18 AM - Question for Art in IL (kevinbonds)
14. 10:25 AM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
15. 10:37 AM - Re: Question...favor... (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
16. 11:50 AM - Re: Question...favor... ()
17. 12:25 PM - Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (2thesky)
18. 12:48 PM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Steve Hulland)
19. 01:06 PM - Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 01:58 PM - 601XL Build Time (Phyrcooler)
21. 02:34 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time ()
22. 02:34 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
23. 02:43 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Mike)
24. 03:06 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
25. 03:42 PM - ID'ing Aluminum (Gary Boothe)
26. 03:45 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Tom and Bren Henderson)
27. 04:11 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
28. 04:27 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Paul Mulwitz)
29. 04:29 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (Bill Naumuk)
30. 04:46 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Randy L. Thwing)
31. 05:18 PM - Re: GPS (Jim Pellien)
32. 05:23 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (Gary Boothe)
33. 05:25 PM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Jim Pellien)
34. 05:27 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Mike)
35. 05:39 PM - Re: Where can I buy Cortec 373? (David Plozay)
36. 06:00 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (ROBERT SCEPPA)
37. 06:00 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Tom and Bren Henderson)
38. 06:01 PM - Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (2thesky)
39. 06:13 PM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Gary Gower)
40. 06:27 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Tom and Bren Henderson)
41. 07:10 PM - Re: GPS (Paul Mulwitz)
42. 07:57 PM - Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) (Craig Payne)
43. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: 601 Hat with tail number (NYTerminat@aol.com)
44. 08:06 PM - Builder signatures (Dave)
45. 08:29 PM - FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR SALE (tjlhl)
46. 08:29 PM - (tjlhl)
47. 08:37 PM - Fw: FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR SALE (tjlhl)
48. 09:30 PM - Electronics (Robert L. Stone)
49. 09:41 PM - Re: Builder signatures (Dave Ruddiman)
50. 10:03 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Gary Gower)
51. 10:29 PM - Prices (kevinbonds)
52. 10:35 PM - RE : Re: Builder signatures (Carlos Sa)
53. 11:15 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (LHusky@aol.com)
54. 11:56 PM - Re: Prices (kevinbonds)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Hat with tail number |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Please tell your friend that I'd like one for a 701.......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48177#48177
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Zed. Don't you start your s$&* again................Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48174#48174
Message 3
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Wanted to let the Zenith folks know and the Zenith list subscribers as
well that the factory did a good job helping fix a problem that I had
caused. I messed up the A5 nosepiece of the factory tool kit pneumatic
rivet puller weekend before last. I was attempting to buff the face
smooth and removed too much metal making the nosepiece useless.
I shipped the messed up nosepiece plus two more nosepieces for my old
Harbor Freight pneumatic puller to them for maching/reconditioning on
the Monday. They received the shipment on Wednesday, got the work done
and shipped them back on Friday. I had them back in service here on the
following Monday. I just wanted to thank them publicly for fast service
and for getting me out of a bind.
One other note.... FYI, having compared them I can now say that the
Harbor Freight puller is much more smooth in its action and doesn't
"buck" anywhere near as much as the one furnished in the tool kit from
the factory. The factory puller does fit better in some places while the
Harbor Freight puller fits better in other sites.
Thanks again to the folks at ZAC in Missouri,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
Do Not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | What i did on my summer vacation, OR New paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Nice Job Roy she looks very smart!
Frank
HDS sold
RV7A..about to go to the airport.
Do not archive
One of the attached pictures is N601RT just after painting. The other is
N601RT and N601LG.
See you at Oshkosh. I expect to arrive Monday and leave Friday.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Arplast PV-50, All electric,
IFR equipped, 562hrs, 674 landings
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Good service |
Hay Ed,
From what you have said maybe builders aught to have both rivet
pullers. What you had to say about Zenith doing a good job helping you
fix your problem is no supprise to those of us who have done business
with them, they are known for that.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL, Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Moody II
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; info@zenithair.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:04 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Good service
Wanted to let the Zenith folks know and the Zenith list subscribers as
well that the factory did a good job helping fix a problem that I had
caused. I messed up the A5 nosepiece of the factory tool kit pneumatic
rivet puller weekend before last. I was attempting to buff the face
smooth and removed too much metal making the nosepiece useless.
I shipped the messed up nosepiece plus two more nosepieces for my old
Harbor Freight pneumatic puller to them for maching/reconditioning on
the Monday. They received the shipment on Wednesday, got the work done
and shipped them back on Friday. I had them back in service here on the
following Monday. I just wanted to thank them publicly for fast service
and for getting me out of a bind.
One other note.... FYI, having compared them I can now say that the
Harbor Freight puller is much more smooth in its action and doesn't
"buck" anywhere near as much as the one furnished in the tool kit from
the factory. The factory puller does fit better in some places while the
Harbor Freight puller fits better in other sites.
Thanks again to the folks at ZAC in Missouri,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
Do Not Archive
Message 6
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And then come back to your car to fin the windows smashed and your 396
GONE!...Assuming you forgot and left it in your car of course...:)
Frank
Do not archive
________________________________
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:59 PM
Milburn,
396 with weather overlay $2495. Can buy a cradle for it in your
airplane and another for your car. Plop it into your aircraft to see
aviation information (moving map), as well as weather conditions via
satellite,...you can also see the locations of other nearby aircraft,
just like what the controllers see, for all aircraft that are using a
transponder, provided you also have the GTX-330 Transponder with Traffic
Information Service (TIS).
Then take the 396 out of the aircraft after your flight and put it into
the automobile cradle and see a moving map of roadways, interstates,
restaurant locations and stores.
There are many less capable GPS systems from Garmin starting at about
$400. Just do a google search on "Aviation GPS" and have fund learning
about all of the new GPS offerings. The 396 is probably the best
price/performance Portable GPS on the market as I speak.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
________________________________
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milburn
Reed
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:08 PM
Please advise what GPS I should buy to use here on the ranch
http://www.directcon.net/reedranch/
on the ground as well as later in my 701 when I get it built? How do you
correlate Latitude and Longitude with township and range ?
Mil Reed
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Good service |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Yep Bob, I definitely recommend the HF puller (blue with chromed nose) for rivetting
skins because it doesn't kick and leave marks near the rivet head.
Ed
---- "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
> Hay Ed,
> From what you have said maybe builders aught to have both rivet pullers.
Message 8
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| Subject: | 601XL & 0235 Lyc main gear orientation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: victor verdev <vjvus@yahoo.com>
The aluminum main gear on original plans is mounted
with straight edge to rear of plane. A later plans
update states to mount straight to front of plane.
The benefit of the update is less stick pressure to
rotate on take off according to Zenith. Looking for
opinion from flying 601XLs with 0235 Lycomings. I'm
ready to mount gear. Thanks
__________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach |
Steve,
Keep cool, was a mistaken click in the email address by Jim.
Would be better that were pretty girls :-)
He already said was soory, give him a break,
Saludos
Gary Gower
Look twice, click once :-)
Do not archive.
Steve Hulland <marinegunner@gmail.com> wrote: Jim,
This type information has no place on this list. If anymore like it is put up,
I will simply get off the list. Go rent it to someone who cares.
I hope the master of the list removes you from the list.
Do Not Archive
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior
to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free
email and attachments.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
Message 10
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That transponder is almost FOUR GRAND!!!!
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:59 PM
Milburn,
396 with weather overlay $2495. Can buy a cradle for it in your
airplane
and another for your car. Plop it into your aircraft to see aviation
information (moving map), as well as weather conditions via
satellite,=85you
can also see the locations of other nearby aircraft, just like what the
controllers see, for all aircraft that are using a transponder,
provided
you also have the GTX-330 Transponder with Traffic Information Service
(TIS).
Then take the 396 out of the aircraft after your flight and put it into
the
automobile cradle and see a moving map of roadways, interstates,
restaurant
locations and stores.
There are many less capable GPS systems from Garmin starting at about
$400.
Just do a google search on =93Aviation GPS=94 and have fund learning
about all
of the new GPS offerings. The 396 is probably the best
price/performance
Portable GPS on the market as I speak.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milburn
Reed
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:08 PM
Please advise what GPS I should buy to use here on the ranch
http://www.directcon.net/reedranch/
on the ground as well as later in my 701 when I get it built? How do you
correlate Latitude and Longitude with township and range ?
Mil Reed
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/14/2006
--
7/17/2006
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Good service (Rivet Gun) |
You might try dismantling, cleaning, re-oiling, adjusting nose length, and checking
air pressure to smooth out riveter operation. Made a big difference on my
low rent model.
Do not archive
Terry Turnquist
601XL Plans
St. Peters, MO
dredmoody@cox.net wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Yep Bob, I definitely recommend the HF puller (blue with chromed nose) for rivetting
skins because it doesn't kick and leave marks near the rivet head.
Ed
---- "Robert L. Stone" wrote:
> Hay Ed,
> From what you have said maybe builders aught to have both rivet pullers.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Question...favor... |
Hey Guys...
I have a question/favor from some of you XL kit builders out there who
are working on your wings, or have your wing kit... I'm a scratch
builder and my #2 right, rear wing rib seems to 'out of spec'. I've
checked it with the plans and it measures out OK, but just to rest my
mind I was wandering if someone would measure their kit part, #2 right
rear rib at the locations shown on the lame drawing that is attached and
tell me those dimensions...?
Thanks in advance,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Question for Art in IL |
Hello Art
Looks like someone is proud of their baby! Nice photos on the Frapper! Site.
I noticed your sticks are bent instead of the welded configuration ZAC
recommends. I thought about this as well. Looks like the sticks don't rest
against the firewall and no need for a cutout in the seats. I like it. Are
you happy with where the stick rests in you lap? I would like some
dimensions if you have them.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach |
Steven, I know Jim. He's a straight up fellow and if he said he goofed, he
goofed. Let's all try to get along and get back to hating all the folks we
really should, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Question...favor... |
Randy, I can't measure the rib so I can't help much other than to say there
was some wrap effect of the rear spar to fit correctly the ribs correctly. Also
check the size of your spacer blocks under the ribs. Even a couple mms could
change the shape at the distance of the rib over the length of the rib. On
another topic, you are probably the smartest computer guy I have met. I want to
start up a web page, but don't have a clue where to start. If you get a moment
write me off list, Best Regards, B of G
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Question...favor... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Hi Randy,
I'm building a 601XL from a complete kit (ordered 9DEC05, received 15MAR06).
I'm currently assembling the second wing skeleton.... about to drill to attach
the rear ribs of the right wing to the rear spar channel. I didn't notice any
problem with the length of any of the rear ribs on the right wing when I assembled
it. I haven't attached the rear spar to the left skeleton so I can't comment
on that one yet.
I'm taking for granted that you have double checked the location of the #2 rear
rib on both main and rear spars.... that could cause an apparent length issue.
It may be too late in a couple more days when I get back to the wing to measure
(it's not at my home) but if you haven't resolved the problem by then,
I'll measure my left #2 rear rib as you asked as well as checking its compatibility
with the rest of the ribs.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
---- Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
> Hey Guys...
>
> I have a question/favor from some of you XL kit builders out there who are working
on your wings, or have your wing kit... I'm a scratch builder and my #2
right, rear wing rib seems to 'out of spec'. I've checked it with the plans
and it measures out OK, but just to rest my mind I was wandering if someone would
measure their kit part, #2 right rear rib at the locations shown on the lame
drawing that is attached and tell me those dimensions...?
Message 17
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| Subject: | Is the Zodiac unusually strong? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
I notice that most kit-planes in the same weight range of the Zodiac XL have load
limit factors of +4 or -2 G's. The zodiac literature says +or -6 G's. Also,
most kit-planes in the same class list a Vne that is just slightly higher than
the published cruise speed, and some even list max cruise as Vne. The XL
claims a 180 mph Vne. This makes me want to believe that the XL has a stronger
airframe than most. I did read on this list a while back (a year or so ago)
a post in which someone claimed that an XL tail-dragger was a bad idea because
of an "already delicate" airframe. What gives? Am I missing something here,
or is the Zodiac a stronger aircraft? Or is the airframe delicate in the tail-dragger
config. Like all other builders, I want to choose a project that is
as safe as possible to fly, and I think that it would be pretty hard to argue
with the record of the Zodiac and the fact that Chris Heintz has designed many
airplanes, some that went on to be certified. Also, does anyone flying their
XL have an opinion on crosswind handling and how the thing flies in rough
air? Thanks in advance for any input.
N.F. in OK
Trying to decide...................
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48302#48302
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach |
All,
I have already talked (email) with Jim. He was sending his apology as I
wrote my email. Crossed it the mail. I believe all is fine.
Steve Hulland
Zenith 600
Amado, AZ
Message 19
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| Subject: | Is the Zodiac unusually strong? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
You will notice the +/-ve 6G's is Ultimate....with a 1.5 saftey factor
that's basically +/-4.5 G's....Essentially it's a utility grade
aircraft. Depends if the others have been listed with or without the
safety factor.
I don't think the fact the 601 does not cruise near its Vne is
particularly relevant. The HDS has a lower number than this (160mph if I
remember correctly) even buzzing a runway once as fast as I could
reasonably (sensible dive angle) get it to go it did not exceed 150mph.
As to X wind lanings the HDS was just superb.
If you want a Sport pilot airplane then an XL is a good choice...A
considerably better airplane overall would be an RV-9A INHO and the
prepunched kit is far superior. The downside is you get the pleasure of
driving solid rivets instead of pop rivets which are a lot more work
Frank
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2thesky
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:25 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
I notice that most kit-planes in the same weight range of the Zodiac XL
have load limit factors of +4 or -2 G's. The zodiac literature says +or
-6 G's. Also, most kit-planes in the same class list a Vne that is just
slightly higher than the published cruise speed, and some even list max
cruise as Vne. The XL claims a 180 mph Vne. This makes me want to
believe that the XL has a stronger airframe than most. I did read on
this list a while back (a year or so ago) a post in which someone
claimed that an XL tail-dragger was a bad idea because of an "already
delicate" airframe. What gives? Am I missing something here, or is the
Zodiac a stronger aircraft? Or is the airframe delicate in the
tail-dragger config. Like all other builders, I want to choose a
project that is as safe as possible to fly, and I think that it would be
pretty hard to argue with the record of the Zodiac and the fact that
Chris Heintz has designed many airplanes, some that went on to be
certified. A!
lso, does anyone flying their XL have an opinion on crosswind handling
and how the thing flies in rough air? Thanks in advance for any input.
N.F. in OK
Trying to decide...................
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Message 20
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| Subject: | 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 months.
I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due significantly to build times.
Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build.
What has been the experience of you builders out there? I understand there
are only a few quick-builds currently under construction - possibly none completed
yet. Does 250 look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard?
If so... WOW...
Thanks folks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Fair warning and standard disclaimer..... I probably obsess on details more than
is truly necessary. That being said, I have put in somewhere around 210 hours
and I am currently assembling the left wing skeleton of my 601XL. The tail and
right wing are complete. I'll likely have both wings finished and be working
on the fuselage by 250 hours. It's anybody's guess how many hours will have
been put in by the time it is finished.
Ed Moody II
---- Phyrcooler <phyrcooler@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build.
What has been the experience of you builders out there?
Message 22
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| Subject: | 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmmm...Well lets say in the past Zac has been accused of "creative
accounting" when it comes to many numbers
My HDS for example...Claimed build time 400 hours...I took 950...I have
seen some rough examples that took 750.
Cruise speed 140 mph on only 80 horse power.....Yeah well anyway...
Bottom line, guess on doubling the claimed build times unless you built
one before.
Incidently if you think I am slow note that I am almost finished with an
RV7a that took 1200 hours compared to a claimed 1000 hours for the
QB...But then add my paint job, IFR instrumentation and after market
cowl and I think you'll see I build at about an average pace.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phyrcooler
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:55 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7
months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due
significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD
kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of
you builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds
currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250
look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard? If so...
WOW...
Thanks folks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
> Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit
No way, unless you're an A & P mechanic, mechanically gifted, or you have every
waking hour every day to build nonstop. And remember -- that's just to build
the airframe. The firewall forward components, instruments, etc can take just
as long. I would double whatever claims are made on build time to get a flyable
aircraft. (Incidentally, ZAC is not alone in their understatements....most of
the kitplane companies do the same). Not sure about the quickbuild option, but
I would still pad the time considerably if that's an important factor to you.
Mike Fortunato
601XL - Jab3300
Alta Loma, CA
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Ed, that's really pretty fast. I think I spent at least that long sharpening
drill bits and crushing beer cans. As I was getting the fuselage done and
looking to paint I was at 1300 hours and that was a modest guess of real time.
I
painted for over a month so time stood still. B of G
Message 25
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List,
Just a follow-up from yesterday. I posted a question about how to ID
aluminum angle if there were no ID marks on it. There ensued a variety of
answers (imagine that!), all of them helpful and enlightening.
The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister (maybe
Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them.
Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the
supplier to an answer, they looked it up and immediately identified it as
6061.
When I questioned them about the profile they simply replied that their
supplier always provides it in that profile.
I'll go ahead with the pieces I purchased and if I crash & die I'll come
back and haunt that establishment 'till the end of time..
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Wow, I may be the odd man out in this discussion. My build partner and I
are each at about the same stage in our builds. The tail section is complete,
and the fuselage is about 75% complete. We chose to build the wings last.
The thing is, we have easily less than 200 hours into the builds each. I have
no doubt that we'll come in under the 500 hour mark, although neither of us are
gunning for it. It takes whatever it takes. This is for the airframe only
of course (prior to engine, instruments, and wiring).
The kicker here is that we're both scratch building. Granted, we're using
CNC equipment to approximate the kit parts Zenith sells, but even with the programming
and punch time, I'm still below 200 hours. Pick up the parts from Zenith,
and you're right there with us.
The short version of this is these are very quick to build aircraft. You
could easily be caught up in analysis paralysis, as with any kit, but avoid that
and you've got an airframe in no time. The Sloooow build (ie-Scratch Build)
version will go together faster than most Quick build kits from some of the
other manufacturers.
Phyrcooler <phyrcooler@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler"
I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 months.
I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due significantly to build times.
Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build.
What has been the experience of you builders out there? I understand there
are only a few quick-builds currently under construction - possibly none completed
yet. Does 250 look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard?
If so... WOW...
Thanks folks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum |
In a message dated 7/18/2006 5:44:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
gboothe@calply.com writes:
The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister (maybe
Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them. Fortunately,
there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the supplier to an answer,
they looked it up and immediately identified it as 6061.
That is part of the spec, Also required is the T6 or T3,,, as in 6061-T6.
Message 28
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| Subject: | 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I have not kept track of my build time, so I can't give a direct
answer to your question.
Perhaps I can help you understand the building process a little as
well as help you decide what plane to build.
The building process for a kit plane like the Zodiac XL is relatively
simple and indeed quicker than many other designs. This is part of
the genius of its designer and also a result from the simple shapes
and rivets used. The kit can be built using only simple tools, but
not quite as simple as claimed by Zenith. The claim that it can be
done without using any solid rivets is also not true. There are a
number of small solid rivets used to attach nut plates and similar
things. You can do it all without buying an air powered rivet gun,
but I have found many chances to set small solid rivets with a 1 ton
arbor press I already had.
Rather than focus on the build time, I would suggest you focus on the
simplicity of building the kit and on the quality of instructions and
drawings as well as kit materials. I personally rate Zenith highly
in most of the kit materials with some reservation on pre-drilled
pilot holes in some of the kit parts. This might have improved
recently with their addition of a fancy N/C routing machine used to
do some of the drilling. The drawings are relatively good, but have
many little inconsistencies which lead to ruined parts. Zenith is
good about replacing parts and materials if you contact them, but
there is still the delay in building to consider. The photo
instructions start out really good and lose value as you move through
the building process. My point here is to bring your thinking to the
subject of how many times you will have to build the same part and
how many delays you will face waiting for sub-kit orders (if you
choose that path) rather than the simple number for the whole build process.
On the subject of choosing a plane design, I would suggest the kit
qualities and build time are not even near the top of the list of
criteria to use. The most important thing to consider is how well
the finished plane meets your needs and desires. You can only tell
this from examining your own goals and through demo flights and other
familiarization with the finished planes. You can learn many things
from these exposures that you will never learn by reading sales literature.
For example, Frank Hinde has claimed how good the RV-9A is compared
to the Zodiac in a post today. What he didn't tell you is it takes
twice as much money and twice as much time to build as the XL and
gives you perhaps 10 or 20 knots increased speed for all this extra
cost. It also gives you a free castoring nose wheel instead of the
nose gear steering in the XL. That means you must use differential
braking to keep the plane aligned while trying to take off with a
crosswind. This is not the case with the Zodiac.
In any event, building a plane from any kit (including quick build
kits) will take a huge amount of time and effort. It will challenge
you to think about what you are doing and reward you for good
decisions and penalize you for bad ones. You will learn how to
overcome mistakes, but you will also learn that each mistake costs
you both time and money. In the end you will have plenty of reason
to be proud of your accomplishment. When you start flying your plane
you will really learn how well you did your design selection process.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
>Hmmm...Well lets say in the past Zac has been accused of "creative
>accounting" when it comes to many numbers
>
>My HDS for example...Claimed build time 400 hours...I took 950...I have
>seen some rough examples that took 750.
>
>Cruise speed 140 mph on only 80 horse power.....Yeah well anyway...
>
>
>Bottom line, guess on doubling the claimed build times unless you built
>one before.
>
>Incidently if you think I am slow note that I am almost finished with an
>RV7a that took 1200 hours compared to a claimed 1000 hours for the
>QB...But then add my paint job, IFR instrumentation and after market
>cowl and I think you'll see I build at about an average pace.
>
>Frank
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
>
>I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7
>months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due
>significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD
>kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of
>you builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds
>currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250
>look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard? If so...
>WOW...
>
>Thanks folks!
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum |
Gary-
Good. Now that that's over you can come over and help me install
soffit and fascia. You should be able to make it by next week.
Flying at 10000' doesn't bother me a bit, but I keep forgetting
where the last rung of the ladder is. Crash every time.
Our old corded phone died (Got to keep one around if the power goes
out), which was connected to my wife's computer, which was connected to
the DSL line, which was connected to her MFC, yada, yada, yada. Bottom
line is, I lost every list posting for the last 2 days.
Don't let it go to your heads, but coming home to the list after a
day in the crock pot is the high point of my day. I'm not in a pressure
cooker, they slow-roast me!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
40%HDS being relocated to new shop
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum
List,
Just a follow-up from yesterday. I posted a question about how to ID
aluminum angle if there were no ID marks on it. There ensued a variety
of answers (imagine that!), all of them helpful and enlightening.
The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister
(maybe Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them.
Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the
supplier to an answer, they looked it up and immediately identified it
as 6061.
When I questioned them about the profile they simply replied that
their supplier always provides it in that profile.
I'll go ahead with the pieces I purchased and if I crash & die I'll
come back and haunt that establishment 'till the end of time..
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Could you advise what CNC equipment you are using? You mention
punching; Amada Pega, Strippet, etc.?
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
we're using CNC equipment to approximate the kit parts Zenith sells,
but even with the programming and punch time
Message 31
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Yes, that is correct. A little under $4000 for the Garmin GTX 330. Do you
know of a less expensive way to get transponder operating air traffic info
into the cockpit and displayed on a moving map? I'd like to hear about it,
if there is a better, cheaper alternative.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11:57 AM
That transponder is almost FOUR GRAND!!!!
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:59 PM
Milburn,
396 with weather overlay $2495. Can buy a cradle for it in your airplane
and another for your car. Plop it into your aircraft to see aviation
information (moving map), as well as weather conditions via satellite,.you
can also see the locations of other nearby aircraft, just like what the
controllers see, for all aircraft that are using a transponder, provided
you also have the GTX-330 Transponder with Traffic Information Service
(TIS).
Then take the 396 out of the aircraft after your flight and put it into the
automobile cradle and see a moving map of roadways, interstates, restaurant
locations and stores.
There are many less capable GPS systems from Garmin starting at about $400.
Just do a google search on "Aviation GPS" and have fund learning about all
of the new GPS offerings. The 396 is probably the best price/performance
Portable GPS on the market as I speak.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milburn Reed
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:08 PM
Please advise what GPS I should buy to use here on the ranch
http://www.directcon.net/reedranch/
on the ground as well as later in my 701 when I get it built? How do you
correlate Latitude and Longitude with township and range ?
Mil Reed
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/14/2006
--
7/17/2006
Message 32
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Supplier confirmed that ALL 6061 they stock is T-6. Thanks for the reminder.
Gary
Do Not Archive
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JERICKSON03E@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:07 PM
In a message dated 7/18/2006 5:44:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
gboothe@calply.com writes:
The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister (maybe
Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them.
Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the
supplier to an answer, they looked it up and immediately identified it as
6061.
That is part of the spec, Also required is the T6 or T3,,, as in 6061-T6.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach |
Yes, guys, everything is fine. Lets start talking about airplanes again.
Again everybody, sorry for the inadvertent mistake on my part.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hulland
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:46 PM
All,
I have already talked (email) with Jim. He was sending his apology as I
wrote my email. Crossed it the mail. I believe all is fine.
Steve Hulland
Zenith 600
Amado, AZ
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
I'm not sure if I would refer to you as odd man out, but there are some key differences
between you and the average first time builder. Most guys I know wouldn't
recognize a CNC machine if it fell on their front yard, much less how to
use one. You also have a build partner, and two heads are definitely better than
one in figuring this stuff out. From this and other posts, I'm also guessing
you probably have much more experience in this sort of thing than the rest of
us.
Analysis to paralysis isn't so much the issue -- if you're a FIRST TIME builder
(which is what the hours are supposed to be rated at), it should be presumed
that you don't automatically know how to read and interpret plans (especially
those riddled with errors). Analysis, therefore, is definitely required.
This isn't meant to discourage anyone -- it's simply a caution for the new guys
to avoid believing the hype in favor of reality. If you're building one of these
things, just plan on it taking a long time. If you're ok with that, then go
for it!
Tom and Bren Henderson <admin@arachnidrobotics.com> wrote: Wow, I may be
the odd man out in this discussion.
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Where can I buy Cortec 373? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Plozay" <dplozay@cox.net>
Zenith sells 373; 1 quart for $23. I used 1 quart for both the tail and 1/2
of the right wing; applied to all inside surfaces. You'd probably be able to
get by with 1 quart if you only did mating surfaces - personal preference
ofcourse.
Apply the 373 with disposible foam brush, thinned with tap water according
to directions. Be sure to thouroughly degrease surfaces by scrubbing with
(well you know) Scotch-Brite and soapy water (Dawn takes grease out of your
airframe). Skip degreasing with laquer thinner - way too toxic and not as
good as soap and water. I also wear rubber gloves and a respirator when
applying the 373 (and good ventallation).
Cheers!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:25 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@mchsi.com>
>
> William- check with Shirley at Zenith. I bought some from them about a
> year ago.
> Al Young
> XL
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:22 PM
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>>
>> I want to use Cortec 373 for corrosions protection but
>> I've been unable to find a place that will sell it,
>> neither on line nor local. I've searched the archives
>> and couldn't find a message that mention where to buy
>> it. I checked the Cortec web site and no list of
>> distributors. Did a search in Yahoo and Google and I
>> got a lot of hits about Cortec but no one from a
>> store. Checked some local stores and nothing. Does
>> anyone know the secret place where I can buy this
>> product?
>>
>> William Dominguez
>> Zodiac 601XL Plans
>> www.ea-report.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> I like to point here that I bought 6061T6 at a local
> supplier of aluminum. He showed me 6061T351 and that
> didn't have a radius in the fillet it was plainly
> a straight angle. I told him it was the wrong one
> and he had to cut me 6061T6, all 35 feet of it. So
> specify that you need 6061T6 that has that radius.
> Do not archive..
--- Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
> List,
>
>
>
> Just a follow-up from yesterday. I posted a question
> about how to ID
> aluminum angle if there were no ID marks on it.
> There ensued a variety of
> answers (imagine that!), all of them helpful and
> enlightening.
>
>
>
> The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk
> and another lister (maybe
> Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more
> info from them.
> Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and
> without leading the
> supplier to an answer, they looked it up and
> immediately identified it as
> 6061.
>
>
>
> When I questioned them about the profile they simply
> replied that their
> supplier always provides it in that profile.
>
>
>
> I'll go ahead with the pieces I purchased and if I
> crash & die I'll come
> back and haunt that establishment 'till the end of
> time..
>
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, CA
>
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
>
> Tail done, working on wings....
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
I'm using a Vipros 358Z and Vipros 255 Punche along with an Amada 667 and Bystronic
3015 Laser. Most of the forming was done on an Astro robotic press brake.
If the robot didn't do it, it was on another Amada brake.
You sound like you've had some experience with CNC sheet metal? You can contact
me off-list if you'd like more specifics on the parts and procedures.
"Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote: Could you advise what CNC
equipment you are using? You mention punching; Amada Pega, Strippet, etc.?
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
we're using CNC equipment to approximate the kit parts Zenith sells, but
even with the programming and punch time
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
Thanks,
I have a buddy with an RV. Beautiful plane for sure, but I want less expensive
option. His burns LOTS more fuel than other friends that run Rotax engines.
ANd auto fuel, at that. Also, I am going to stay with LSA qualified airplanes
in case I want to go that route. I am not interested too much in speed. An
honest 100 mph is plenty fine for me. I am more worried about shooting for a
5 gph airplane than speed. I would give up cruise to gain a little fuel economy.
Another interesting thing that is hindering my selection process is that
I followed all the advice and got my wife involved. I took her flying, took
her to airshows and asked for her input on the looks of the planes that I am looking
at building. We have a friend that gave us both rides in his Kitfox.
That did, it she is in love. She wants me to get a high wing (so she can look
straight down) and her personal favorite is the HIghlander from Just Aircraft.
I like that airplane, but I am looking at the number of flying Zenith models
and their track record, so on and so forth. The good thing is that if I build
a Zodiac first, maybe she will let me add a high wing for her to ride in!
:)
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48418#48418
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach |
Hello Steve,
Last email in this matter, yes lots of crossing mails, I will pay the first
round of Corona beer when we meet either in OSH or S&F one year to come...
In any Condo or Restaurant or Bar :-) :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Here we say: When some one makes a promise, he is in debt"
Do not archive.
Steve Hulland <marinegunner@gmail.com> wrote:
All,
I have already talked (email) with Jim. He was sending his apology as I wrote
my email. Crossed it the mail. I believe all is fine.
Steve Hulland
Zenith 600
Amado, AZ
---------------------------------
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Mike makes a good point when he mentions the impact of experience on build
time, but the novice sheet metal mechanic could definitely complete the 601XL.
I think it's safe to say that the correspondence in this list could well cut
your build time by hundreds of hours if you pay attention. Mike mentions the
plans being riddled with errors. He's right, but there exists a great community
(this list) to interpret those mistakes and sometimes improve on the original
design in the process.
If you've got an internet connection (you're reading the list aren't you?),
then you already have all the help you need to build a great little airplane.
There are only two things you have to bring to the table. Money and determination.
If you're a little short on the money side, an immense amount of determination
can help offset some of the cost. Heck, there are guys I'm reading
about in this list that are just completing fifteen year builds. Now THAT'S
determination!
Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com> wrote: I'm not sure if I would refer to you as odd man
out, but there are some key differences between you and the average first time
builder. Most guys I know wouldn't recognize a CNC machine if it fell on their
front yard, much less how to use one. You also have a build partner, and two
heads are definitely better than one in figuring this stuff out. From this and
other posts, I'm also guessing you probably have much more experience in this
sort of thing than the rest of us.
Analysis to paralysis isn't so much the issue -- if you're a FIRST TIME builder
(which is what the hours are supposed to be rated at), it should be presumed
that you don't automatically know how to read and interpret plans (especially
those riddled with errors). Analysis, therefore, is definitely required.
This isn't meant to discourage anyone -- it's simply a caution for the new guys
to avoid believing the hype in favor of reality. If you're building one of these
things, just plan on it taking a long time. If you're ok with that, then
go for it!
Tom and Bren Henderson <admin@arachnidrobotics.com> wrote: Wow, I may be
the odd man out in this discussion.
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Message 41
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Hi Jim,
I am sure you are right that the Garmin equipment is very good if the
buyer wants all that fancy stuff. On the other hand, I believe the
original question was about GPS.
You can get a quite functional GPS for under $500 if that is what you
want. I bought a Lowrance Airmap 500 about a year ago on special for
a little over $300. It is a quite functional aviation GPS. It has a
small black and white screen and doesn't do any of the really fancy
stuff like displaying terrain, satellite weather, or radar
transponder stuff. On the other hand It knows where all the airports
are and can easily help any pilot stay oriented and on the proper
path to his destination. It is a very sophisticated navigation
device that anyone would have killed for 20 years ago. Now it is
just entry level electronic wizardry.
I am sure there are many choices in between these extremes. I bought
the Airmap 500 since it was inexpensive and I wanted to learn how to
use a GPS. I had read articles pointing out that many pilots
couldn't figure out how to operate these gizmos. After months of
using it in my car I can understand why it takes a considerable
amount of practice and not a few mistakes to get this technology to
work for you. If you only have one (with all the extra bells and
whistles) in a rental plane to play with then I can imagine you will
never get it figured out.
I will probably buy a larger GPS with a color screen to go in my
plane when it is at that stage. For now, the low end unit is just
fine for me. Another possibility is I will buy an EFIS system with
built in GPS. I hope the experience I had with the low end unit will
make learning the more sophisticated equipment easier.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:15 PM 7/18/2006, you wrote:
>Yes, that is correct. A little under $4000 for the Garmin GTX
>330. Do you know of a less expensive way to get transponder
>operating air traffic info into the cockpit and displayed on a
>moving map? I'd like to hear about it, if there is a better,
>cheaper alternative.
>
>
>Jim
-
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| Subject: | Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) |
But TIS coverage is not particularly wide-spread (especially out west where
I live):
www.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp
Here is a cheaper alternative ($500-$1800) with its own pluses and minuses:
www.zaonflight.com/
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Hat with tail number |
Me too.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 7/18/2006 7:55:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
stol10@comcast.net writes:
Please tell your friend that I'd like one for a 701.......Geoff
Message 44
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| Subject: | Builder signatures |
I suggest that most everyone posting lately add Do not archive to their
automated signature. That way you won't forget, and the archives won't get
clogged with all the garbage postings that have run rampant in the last
couple months. Only a small percentage have anything worth reading and
saving.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS Wisconsin do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR SALE |
I have the two new skins purchased 02/06 which show 3-4 small crease
bends that you have to find by looking at an angle. This is the down
side of .016, how ever the little creases tend to disappear once the
skin is bowed, as it will be when installed on top of the fuse. The up
side of course is the light weight. As with any alum with small
defects, they may be repaired after installation by spraying filler
prime paint and sanding. I will take $70.00 for the two of them, which
is about half price. You pay $5.00 for the box and shipping. Let me
know if you might want them. Thanks, Tom L.
Message 46
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Message 47
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| Subject: | Fw: FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR |
SALE
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:27 PM
I have the two new skins purchased 02/06 which show 3-4 small crease
bends that you have to find by looking at an angle. This is the down
side of .016, how ever the little creases tend to disappear once the
skin is bowed, as it will be when installed on top of the fuse. The up
side of course is the light weight. As with any alum with small
defects, they may be repaired after installation by spraying filler
prime paint and sanding. I will take $70.00 for the two of them, which
is about half price. You pay $5.00 for the box plus shipping. Let me
know if you might want them. Thanks, Tom L.
Message 48
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Members,
I notice a lot of traffic concerning electronics, like GPS,
Transponders all that new so called glass stuff that is real expensive.
Just wait a while and the price will go down. Right after I bought a
Garmin 296 for $1695.00 the price went down to $1495.00. When the 396
has been out for a while, it will go down also. Pricing is no longer
baised on fair margin of profit, it is baised on what can be squezed out
of the fat cats and always goes down after sales start to fall off.
As for building a XL in 500 hours. This is very possible if a crew
of 5 experenced mechanics are doing the building, however if only one
guy with minimum experence is doing the building 500 hours is also
possible providing the XL is the little model that Zenith sells.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx.
ZodiacXL Do not Archive.
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Builder signatures |
How do you do an automated signature?
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Builder signatures
I suggest that most everyone posting lately add Do not archive to
their automated signature. That way you won't forget, and the archives
won't get clogged with all the garbage postings that have run rampant in
the last couple months. Only a small percentage have anything worth
reading and saving.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS Wisconsin do not archive
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Hello Phyr
I will tell you my point of view with reference of my personal experience in this
airplanes (Zenith 701 finished and flying and working on a "standard kit"
601 XL).
As a first project, you need at least about 300 hrs more (most of them in organizing,
this includes knowing the plans and manual, and getting every step ready),
from the 500 advertized, not bad. Is a well designed airplane in the simple
to build side of the homebuilding market. Not counting the very expensive
"glue two shells" of the fast composite super kits :-)
800 hrs will be close, IF (very important) you are in a hurry to fly the plane
and you will not pay much attention to detail... This is for a safe no aishow
quality airplane.
To build a good looking, airplane (rounded corners and edges, primered inside,
straight and well spaced rivets, well designed and wired instrument panel, a
"couple" of rebuilt parts that looked not as you will like,etc) I will think
of at least 1,000 hrs (for a beguiner), but is worth the extra work and efort
(been there done that).
Just visit any good size fly in, to see examples of diferent airplanes in both
sides of the "perfection", A have looked to a couple that I would not like to
be below them if flown over me :-) Is a shame all that money and time invested.
Just a little care and love will make a great airplane, is your desision.
What ever way you decide to go, PLEASE keep it light and simple, you will never
be sorry for the great performance you will get since first flight.
Also, Very Important! The worse enemy of any project is not working Constantly
in it... try to work on the project daily if possible, even just looking at
the plans or making a little part will do, once you beguin leaving the project
aside for a "few" days, will become worse with time and probably will never
be finished.
Hope this helps and welcome to the list...
No first hand experience in fast built kits... Yet...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala. Mexico.
Phyrcooler <phyrcooler@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler"
I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 months.
I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due significantly to build times.
Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build.
What has been the experience of you builders out there? I understand there
are only a few quick-builds currently under construction - possibly none completed
yet. Does 250 look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard?
If so... WOW...
Thanks folks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332
---------------------------------
Message 51
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Hello
I need prices on the following parts (please) for the Zodiac XL:
6B8-6 rev-0 =BC in Nyloil upper bearing
6B9-4 rev-0 Central Pedal Bearing
6b21-5 rev-0 fiberglass Saddle
6G2-1 rev-2 Nyloil Nose Gear Bottom Bearing
Plans for dual sticks option
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds>
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Builder signatures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Dave, this depends on the email product you are using.
Look under menu option "tools", then "options" and then click the tab "signature"
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
--- Dave Ruddiman <pacificpainting@comcast.net> a crit :
> How do you do an automated signature?
>
> do not archive
>
>
__________________________________________________________
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
I am the other building partner Tom is speaking of. I just added up my
builders log and I have 92 hrs in my airplane so far. I am about halfway done
with my fuselage. My firewall is near complete. Now I do have to say that the
CNC machine does so much work, there is times that I am literally skipping
pages of instructions from the plans. I built my first rudder from the parts
Tom cut from the CNC machine. I did not have to drill any holes in the
doublers, spar or even cut the angles at the bottom of the doublers. There was
no
laying out rivet lines. I had a total time of 2.5 hrs building my first
rudder and it came out awesome. I then had it stolen by a scrape dealer when
I
was moving and had it setting in my front yard. I was going to use the CNC
parts again, but I decided to build a rudder at the Zenith shop in Cloverdale,
CA on May 6th. I have to admit, that when I got there and saw the parts
sitting on the table. I had a lot more work to do on this one. I had almost
8
hrs in this one when I was done and I already knew what I was doing. I did
not have to cut the bottom of the skin with the CNC parts, but I had to with
the Zenith parts. I even have a stack of L angles that already have holes
drilled. They match up with the skins and you mark, cut and install. My build
time even includes Zinc Chromating all my parts. Since Zenith is now using a
CNC for some of their parts, the build time should drop for future kit
builders. Me and Tom will be well within the 500 hrs. I think in 500 hrs, I
will
have the motor rebuilt and probably near flying stage. I do think that this
is abnormal for most scrape builders though. I got lucky and I appreciate
that CNC machine every time I match a piece and cleco it without having to do
the work that the plans show.
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
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Sorry all, I meant to send that to ZAC.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds>
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:10 AM
Hello
I need prices on the following parts (please) for the Zodiac XL:
6B8-6 rev-0 =BC in Nyloil upper bearing
6B9-4 rev-0 Central Pedal Bearing
6b21-5 rev-0 fiberglass Saddle
6G2-1 rev-2 Nyloil Nose Gear Bottom Bearing
Plans for dual sticks option
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds>
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
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