---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/18/06: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:50 AM - Re: 601 Hat with tail number (Geoff Heap) 2. 04:50 AM - Re: Rent What? (Geoff Heap) 3. 05:06 AM - Good service (Edward Moody II) 4. 07:02 AM - Re: What i did on my summer vacation, OR New paint (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 07:07 AM - Re: Good service (Robert L. Stone) 6. 07:19 AM - Re: GPS (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 7. 07:55 AM - Re: Good service () 8. 08:29 AM - 601XL & 0235 Lyc main gear orientation (victor verdev) 9. 08:38 AM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Gary Gower) 10. 08:58 AM - Re: GPS (B Johnson) 11. 08:59 AM - Re: Good service (Rivet Gun) (Terry Turnquist) 12. 09:49 AM - Question...favor... (Randy Bryant) 13. 10:18 AM - Question for Art in IL (kevinbonds) 14. 10:25 AM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 15. 10:37 AM - Re: Question...favor... (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 16. 11:50 AM - Re: Question...favor... () 17. 12:25 PM - Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (2thesky) 18. 12:48 PM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Steve Hulland) 19. 01:06 PM - Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 20. 01:58 PM - 601XL Build Time (Phyrcooler) 21. 02:34 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time () 22. 02:34 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 23. 02:43 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Mike) 24. 03:06 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 25. 03:42 PM - ID'ing Aluminum (Gary Boothe) 26. 03:45 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Tom and Bren Henderson) 27. 04:11 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 28. 04:27 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Paul Mulwitz) 29. 04:29 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (Bill Naumuk) 30. 04:46 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Randy L. Thwing) 31. 05:18 PM - Re: GPS (Jim Pellien) 32. 05:23 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (Gary Boothe) 33. 05:25 PM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Jim Pellien) 34. 05:27 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Mike) 35. 05:39 PM - Re: Where can I buy Cortec 373? (David Plozay) 36. 06:00 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum (ROBERT SCEPPA) 37. 06:00 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Tom and Bren Henderson) 38. 06:01 PM - Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (2thesky) 39. 06:13 PM - Re: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach (Gary Gower) 40. 06:27 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Tom and Bren Henderson) 41. 07:10 PM - Re: GPS (Paul Mulwitz) 42. 07:57 PM - Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) (Craig Payne) 43. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: 601 Hat with tail number (NYTerminat@aol.com) 44. 08:06 PM - Builder signatures (Dave) 45. 08:29 PM - FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR SALE (tjlhl) 46. 08:29 PM - (tjlhl) 47. 08:37 PM - Fw: FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR SALE (tjlhl) 48. 09:30 PM - Electronics (Robert L. Stone) 49. 09:41 PM - Re: Builder signatures (Dave Ruddiman) 50. 10:03 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Gary Gower) 51. 10:29 PM - Prices (kevinbonds) 52. 10:35 PM - RE : Re: Builder signatures (Carlos Sa) 53. 11:15 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (LHusky@aol.com) 54. 11:56 PM - Re: Prices (kevinbonds) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:02 AM PST US From: "Geoff Heap" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Hat with tail number --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Please tell your friend that I'd like one for a 701.......Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48177#48177 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:02 AM PST US From: "Geoff Heap" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rent What? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Zed. Don't you start your s$&* again................Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48174#48174 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:31 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Zenith-List: Good service Wanted to let the Zenith folks know and the Zenith list subscribers as well that the factory did a good job helping fix a problem that I had caused. I messed up the A5 nosepiece of the factory tool kit pneumatic rivet puller weekend before last. I was attempting to buff the face smooth and removed too much metal making the nosepiece useless. I shipped the messed up nosepiece plus two more nosepieces for my old Harbor Freight pneumatic puller to them for maching/reconditioning on the Monday. They received the shipment on Wednesday, got the work done and shipped them back on Friday. I had them back in service here on the following Monday. I just wanted to thank them publicly for fast service and for getting me out of a bind. One other note.... FYI, having compared them I can now say that the Harbor Freight puller is much more smooth in its action and doesn't "buck" anywhere near as much as the one furnished in the tool kit from the factory. The factory puller does fit better in some places while the Harbor Freight puller fits better in other sites. Thanks again to the folks at ZAC in Missouri, Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / 2nd wing Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:02 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What i did on my summer vacation, OR New paint --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Nice Job Roy she looks very smart! Frank HDS sold RV7A..about to go to the airport. Do not archive One of the attached pictures is N601RT just after painting. The other is N601RT and N601LG. See you at Oshkosh. I expect to arrive Monday and leave Friday. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Arplast PV-50, All electric, IFR equipped, 562hrs, 674 landings ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good service Hay Ed, From what you have said maybe builders aught to have both rivet pullers. What you had to say about Zenith doing a good job helping you fix your problem is no supprise to those of us who have done business with them, they are known for that. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL, Do not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; info@zenithair.com Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Good service Wanted to let the Zenith folks know and the Zenith list subscribers as well that the factory did a good job helping fix a problem that I had caused. I messed up the A5 nosepiece of the factory tool kit pneumatic rivet puller weekend before last. I was attempting to buff the face smooth and removed too much metal making the nosepiece useless. I shipped the messed up nosepiece plus two more nosepieces for my old Harbor Freight pneumatic puller to them for maching/reconditioning on the Monday. They received the shipment on Wednesday, got the work done and shipped them back on Friday. I had them back in service here on the following Monday. I just wanted to thank them publicly for fast service and for getting me out of a bind. One other note.... FYI, having compared them I can now say that the Harbor Freight puller is much more smooth in its action and doesn't "buck" anywhere near as much as the one furnished in the tool kit from the factory. The factory puller does fit better in some places while the Harbor Freight puller fits better in other sites. Thanks again to the folks at ZAC in Missouri, Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / 2nd wing Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:38 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: GPS And then come back to your car to fin the windows smashed and your 396 GONE!...Assuming you forgot and left it in your car of course...:) Frank Do not archive ________________________________ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:59 PM Milburn, 396 with weather overlay $2495. Can buy a cradle for it in your airplane and another for your car. Plop it into your aircraft to see aviation information (moving map), as well as weather conditions via satellite,...you can also see the locations of other nearby aircraft, just like what the controllers see, for all aircraft that are using a transponder, provided you also have the GTX-330 Transponder with Traffic Information Service (TIS). Then take the 396 out of the aircraft after your flight and put it into the automobile cradle and see a moving map of roadways, interstates, restaurant locations and stores. There are many less capable GPS systems from Garmin starting at about $400. Just do a google search on "Aviation GPS" and have fund learning about all of the new GPS offerings. The 396 is probably the best price/performance Portable GPS on the market as I speak. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes Sky Bryce Airport (VG18) Basye, VA www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 ________________________________ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milburn Reed Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:08 PM Please advise what GPS I should buy to use here on the ranch http://www.directcon.net/reedranch/ on the ground as well as later in my 701 when I get it built? How do you correlate Latitude and Longitude with township and range ? Mil Reed ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:54 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good service --> Zenith-List message posted by: Yep Bob, I definitely recommend the HF puller (blue with chromed nose) for rivetting skins because it doesn't kick and leave marks near the rivet head. Ed ---- "Robert L. Stone" wrote: > Hay Ed, > From what you have said maybe builders aught to have both rivet pullers. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:13 AM PST US From: victor verdev Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL & 0235 Lyc main gear orientation --> Zenith-List message posted by: victor verdev The aluminum main gear on original plans is mounted with straight edge to rear of plane. A later plans update states to mount straight to front of plane. The benefit of the update is less stick pressure to rotate on take off according to Zenith. Looking for opinion from flying 601XLs with 0235 Lycomings. I'm ready to mount gear. Thanks __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:52 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach Steve, Keep cool, was a mistaken click in the email address by Jim. Would be better that were pretty girls :-) He already said was soory, give him a break, Saludos Gary Gower Look twice, click once :-) Do not archive. Steve Hulland wrote: Jim, This type information has no place on this list. If anymore like it is put up, I will simply get off the list. Go rent it to someone who cares. I hope the master of the list removes you from the list. Do Not Archive -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:50 AM PST US From: "B Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: GPS That transponder is almost FOUR GRAND!!!! _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:59 PM Milburn, 396 with weather overlay $2495. Can buy a cradle for it in your airplane and another for your car. Plop it into your aircraft to see aviation information (moving map), as well as weather conditions via satellite,=85you can also see the locations of other nearby aircraft, just like what the controllers see, for all aircraft that are using a transponder, provided you also have the GTX-330 Transponder with Traffic Information Service (TIS). Then take the 396 out of the aircraft after your flight and put it into the automobile cradle and see a moving map of roadways, interstates, restaurant locations and stores. There are many less capable GPS systems from Garmin starting at about $400. Just do a google search on =93Aviation GPS=94 and have fund learning about all of the new GPS offerings. The 396 is probably the best price/performance Portable GPS on the market as I speak. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes Sky Bryce Airport (VG18) Basye, VA www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milburn Reed Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:08 PM Please advise what GPS I should buy to use here on the ranch http://www.directcon.net/reedranch/ on the ground as well as later in my 701 when I get it built? How do you correlate Latitude and Longitude with township and range ? Mil Reed -- No virus found in this incoming message. 7/14/2006 -- 7/17/2006 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:28 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good service (Rivet Gun) You might try dismantling, cleaning, re-oiling, adjusting nose length, and checking air pressure to smooth out riveter operation. Made a big difference on my low rent model. Do not archive Terry Turnquist 601XL Plans St. Peters, MO dredmoody@cox.net wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Yep Bob, I definitely recommend the HF puller (blue with chromed nose) for rivetting skins because it doesn't kick and leave marks near the rivet head. Ed ---- "Robert L. Stone" wrote: > Hay Ed, > From what you have said maybe builders aught to have both rivet pullers. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:41 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Zenith-List: Question...favor... Hey Guys... I have a question/favor from some of you XL kit builders out there who are working on your wings, or have your wing kit... I'm a scratch builder and my #2 right, rear wing rib seems to 'out of spec'. I've checked it with the plans and it measures out OK, but just to rest my mind I was wandering if someone would measure their kit part, #2 right rear rib at the locations shown on the lame drawing that is attached and tell me those dimensions...? Thanks in advance, Randy XL Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:29 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: Zenith-List: Question for Art in IL Hello Art Looks like someone is proud of their baby! Nice photos on the Frapper! Site. I noticed your sticks are bent instead of the welded configuration ZAC recommends. I thought about this as well. Looks like the sticks don't rest against the firewall and no need for a cutout in the seats. I like it. Are you happy with where the stick rests in you lap? I would like some dimensions if you have them. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:10 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach Steven, I know Jim. He's a straight up fellow and if he said he goofed, he goofed. Let's all try to get along and get back to hating all the folks we really should, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:58 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question...favor... Randy, I can't measure the rib so I can't help much other than to say there was some wrap effect of the rear spar to fit correctly the ribs correctly. Also check the size of your spacer blocks under the ribs. Even a couple mms could change the shape at the distance of the rib over the length of the rib. On another topic, you are probably the smartest computer guy I have met. I want to start up a web page, but don't have a clue where to start. If you get a moment write me off list, Best Regards, B of G do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:05 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question...favor... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hi Randy, I'm building a 601XL from a complete kit (ordered 9DEC05, received 15MAR06). I'm currently assembling the second wing skeleton.... about to drill to attach the rear ribs of the right wing to the rear spar channel. I didn't notice any problem with the length of any of the rear ribs on the right wing when I assembled it. I haven't attached the rear spar to the left skeleton so I can't comment on that one yet. I'm taking for granted that you have double checked the location of the #2 rear rib on both main and rear spars.... that could cause an apparent length issue. It may be too late in a couple more days when I get back to the wing to measure (it's not at my home) but if you haven't resolved the problem by then, I'll measure my left #2 rear rib as you asked as well as checking its compatibility with the rest of the ribs. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / 2nd wing ---- Randy Bryant wrote: > Hey Guys... > > I have a question/favor from some of you XL kit builders out there who are working on your wings, or have your wing kit... I'm a scratch builder and my #2 right, rear wing rib seems to 'out of spec'. I've checked it with the plans and it measures out OK, but just to rest my mind I was wandering if someone would measure their kit part, #2 right rear rib at the locations shown on the lame drawing that is attached and tell me those dimensions...? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:42 PM PST US From: "2thesky" Subject: Zenith-List: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" I notice that most kit-planes in the same weight range of the Zodiac XL have load limit factors of +4 or -2 G's. The zodiac literature says +or -6 G's. Also, most kit-planes in the same class list a Vne that is just slightly higher than the published cruise speed, and some even list max cruise as Vne. The XL claims a 180 mph Vne. This makes me want to believe that the XL has a stronger airframe than most. I did read on this list a while back (a year or so ago) a post in which someone claimed that an XL tail-dragger was a bad idea because of an "already delicate" airframe. What gives? Am I missing something here, or is the Zodiac a stronger aircraft? Or is the airframe delicate in the tail-dragger config. Like all other builders, I want to choose a project that is as safe as possible to fly, and I think that it would be pretty hard to argue with the record of the Zodiac and the fact that Chris Heintz has designed many airplanes, some that went on to be certified. Also, does anyone flying their XL have an opinion on crosswind handling and how the thing flies in rough air? Thanks in advance for any input. N.F. in OK Trying to decide................... -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48302#48302 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:42 PM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach All, I have already talked (email) with Jim. He was sending his apology as I wrote my email. Crossed it the mail. I believe all is fine. Steve Hulland Zenith 600 Amado, AZ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:37 PM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" You will notice the +/-ve 6G's is Ultimate....with a 1.5 saftey factor that's basically +/-4.5 G's....Essentially it's a utility grade aircraft. Depends if the others have been listed with or without the safety factor. I don't think the fact the 601 does not cruise near its Vne is particularly relevant. The HDS has a lower number than this (160mph if I remember correctly) even buzzing a runway once as fast as I could reasonably (sensible dive angle) get it to go it did not exceed 150mph. As to X wind lanings the HDS was just superb. If you want a Sport pilot airplane then an XL is a good choice...A considerably better airplane overall would be an RV-9A INHO and the prepunched kit is far superior. The downside is you get the pleasure of driving solid rivets instead of pop rivets which are a lot more work Frank -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2thesky Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:25 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" I notice that most kit-planes in the same weight range of the Zodiac XL have load limit factors of +4 or -2 G's. The zodiac literature says +or -6 G's. Also, most kit-planes in the same class list a Vne that is just slightly higher than the published cruise speed, and some even list max cruise as Vne. The XL claims a 180 mph Vne. This makes me want to believe that the XL has a stronger airframe than most. I did read on this list a while back (a year or so ago) a post in which someone claimed that an XL tail-dragger was a bad idea because of an "already delicate" airframe. What gives? Am I missing something here, or is the Zodiac a stronger aircraft? Or is the airframe delicate in the tail-dragger config. Like all other builders, I want to choose a project that is as safe as possible to fly, and I think that it would be pretty hard to argue with the record of the Zodiac and the fact that Chris Heintz has designed many airplanes, some that went on to be certified. A! lso, does anyone flying their XL have an opinion on crosswind handling and how the thing flies in rough air? Thanks in advance for any input. N.F. in OK Trying to decide................... -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:29 PM PST US From: "Phyrcooler" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of you builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250 look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard? If so... WOW... Thanks folks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:06 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fair warning and standard disclaimer..... I probably obsess on details more than is truly necessary. That being said, I have put in somewhere around 210 hours and I am currently assembling the left wing skeleton of my 601XL. The tail and right wing are complete. I'll likely have both wings finished and be working on the fuselage by 250 hours. It's anybody's guess how many hours will have been put in by the time it is finished. Ed Moody II ---- Phyrcooler wrote: > Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of you builders out there? ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:59 PM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hmmm...Well lets say in the past Zac has been accused of "creative accounting" when it comes to many numbers My HDS for example...Claimed build time 400 hours...I took 950...I have seen some rough examples that took 750. Cruise speed 140 mph on only 80 horse power.....Yeah well anyway... Bottom line, guess on doubling the claimed build times unless you built one before. Incidently if you think I am slow note that I am almost finished with an RV7a that took 1200 hours compared to a claimed 1000 hours for the QB...But then add my paint job, IFR instrumentation and after market cowl and I think you'll see I build at about an average pace. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phyrcooler Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:55 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of you builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250 look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard? If so... WOW... Thanks folks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:33 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time > Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit No way, unless you're an A & P mechanic, mechanically gifted, or you have every waking hour every day to build nonstop. And remember -- that's just to build the airframe. The firewall forward components, instruments, etc can take just as long. I would double whatever claims are made on build time to get a flyable aircraft. (Incidentally, ZAC is not alone in their understatements....most of the kitplane companies do the same). Not sure about the quickbuild option, but I would still pad the time considerably if that's an important factor to you. Mike Fortunato 601XL - Jab3300 Alta Loma, CA --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:07 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time Ed, that's really pretty fast. I think I spent at least that long sharpening drill bits and crushing beer cans. As I was getting the fuselage done and looking to paint I was at 1300 hours and that was a modest guess of real time. I painted for over a month so time stood still. B of G ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:05 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum List, Just a follow-up from yesterday. I posted a question about how to ID aluminum angle if there were no ID marks on it. There ensued a variety of answers (imagine that!), all of them helpful and enlightening. The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister (maybe Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them. Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the supplier to an answer, they looked it up and immediately identified it as 6061. When I questioned them about the profile they simply replied that their supplier always provides it in that profile. I'll go ahead with the pieces I purchased and if I crash & die I'll come back and haunt that establishment 'till the end of time.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, working on wings.... ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:31 PM PST US From: Tom and Bren Henderson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time Wow, I may be the odd man out in this discussion. My build partner and I are each at about the same stage in our builds. The tail section is complete, and the fuselage is about 75% complete. We chose to build the wings last. The thing is, we have easily less than 200 hours into the builds each. I have no doubt that we'll come in under the 500 hour mark, although neither of us are gunning for it. It takes whatever it takes. This is for the airframe only of course (prior to engine, instruments, and wiring). The kicker here is that we're both scratch building. Granted, we're using CNC equipment to approximate the kit parts Zenith sells, but even with the programming and punch time, I'm still below 200 hours. Pick up the parts from Zenith, and you're right there with us. The short version of this is these are very quick to build aircraft. You could easily be caught up in analysis paralysis, as with any kit, but avoid that and you've got an airframe in no time. The Sloooow build (ie-Scratch Build) version will go together faster than most Quick build kits from some of the other manufacturers. Phyrcooler wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of you builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250 look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard? If so... WOW... Thanks folks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:25 PM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum In a message dated 7/18/2006 5:44:07 PM Central Daylight Time, gboothe@calply.com writes: The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister (maybe Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them. Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the supplier to an answer, they looked it up and immediately identified it as 6061. That is part of the spec, Also required is the T6 or T3,,, as in 6061-T6. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:33 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I have not kept track of my build time, so I can't give a direct answer to your question. Perhaps I can help you understand the building process a little as well as help you decide what plane to build. The building process for a kit plane like the Zodiac XL is relatively simple and indeed quicker than many other designs. This is part of the genius of its designer and also a result from the simple shapes and rivets used. The kit can be built using only simple tools, but not quite as simple as claimed by Zenith. The claim that it can be done without using any solid rivets is also not true. There are a number of small solid rivets used to attach nut plates and similar things. You can do it all without buying an air powered rivet gun, but I have found many chances to set small solid rivets with a 1 ton arbor press I already had. Rather than focus on the build time, I would suggest you focus on the simplicity of building the kit and on the quality of instructions and drawings as well as kit materials. I personally rate Zenith highly in most of the kit materials with some reservation on pre-drilled pilot holes in some of the kit parts. This might have improved recently with their addition of a fancy N/C routing machine used to do some of the drilling. The drawings are relatively good, but have many little inconsistencies which lead to ruined parts. Zenith is good about replacing parts and materials if you contact them, but there is still the delay in building to consider. The photo instructions start out really good and lose value as you move through the building process. My point here is to bring your thinking to the subject of how many times you will have to build the same part and how many delays you will face waiting for sub-kit orders (if you choose that path) rather than the simple number for the whole build process. On the subject of choosing a plane design, I would suggest the kit qualities and build time are not even near the top of the list of criteria to use. The most important thing to consider is how well the finished plane meets your needs and desires. You can only tell this from examining your own goals and through demo flights and other familiarization with the finished planes. You can learn many things from these exposures that you will never learn by reading sales literature. For example, Frank Hinde has claimed how good the RV-9A is compared to the Zodiac in a post today. What he didn't tell you is it takes twice as much money and twice as much time to build as the XL and gives you perhaps 10 or 20 knots increased speed for all this extra cost. It also gives you a free castoring nose wheel instead of the nose gear steering in the XL. That means you must use differential braking to keep the plane aligned while trying to take off with a crosswind. This is not the case with the Zodiac. In any event, building a plane from any kit (including quick build kits) will take a huge amount of time and effort. It will challenge you to think about what you are doing and reward you for good decisions and penalize you for bad ones. You will learn how to overcome mistakes, but you will also learn that each mistake costs you both time and money. In the end you will have plenty of reason to be proud of your accomplishment. When you start flying your plane you will really learn how well you did your design selection process. Paul XL fuselage do not archive >Hmmm...Well lets say in the past Zac has been accused of "creative >accounting" when it comes to many numbers > >My HDS for example...Claimed build time 400 hours...I took 950...I have >seen some rough examples that took 750. > >Cruise speed 140 mph on only 80 horse power.....Yeah well anyway... > > >Bottom line, guess on doubling the claimed build times unless you built >one before. > >Incidently if you think I am slow note that I am almost finished with an >RV7a that took 1200 hours compared to a claimed 1000 hours for the >QB...But then add my paint job, IFR instrumentation and after market >cowl and I think you'll see I build at about an average pace. > >Frank > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" > >I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 >months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due >significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD >kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of >you builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds >currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250 >look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard? If so... >WOW... > >Thanks folks! > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:50 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum Gary- Good. Now that that's over you can come over and help me install soffit and fascia. You should be able to make it by next week. Flying at 10000' doesn't bother me a bit, but I keep forgetting where the last rung of the ladder is. Crash every time. Our old corded phone died (Got to keep one around if the power goes out), which was connected to my wife's computer, which was connected to the DSL line, which was connected to her MFC, yada, yada, yada. Bottom line is, I lost every list posting for the last 2 days. Don't let it go to your heads, but coming home to the list after a day in the crock pot is the high point of my day. I'm not in a pressure cooker, they slow-roast me! do not archive Bill Naumuk 40%HDS being relocated to new shop Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum List, Just a follow-up from yesterday. I posted a question about how to ID aluminum angle if there were no ID marks on it. There ensued a variety of answers (imagine that!), all of them helpful and enlightening. The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister (maybe Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them. Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the supplier to an answer, they looked it up and immediately identified it as 6061. When I questioned them about the profile they simply replied that their supplier always provides it in that profile. I'll go ahead with the pieces I purchased and if I crash & die I'll come back and haunt that establishment 'till the end of time.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, working on wings.... ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:37 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time Could you advise what CNC equipment you are using? You mention punching; Amada Pega, Strippet, etc.? Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive we're using CNC equipment to approximate the kit parts Zenith sells, but even with the programming and punch time ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:17 PM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: GPS Yes, that is correct. A little under $4000 for the Garmin GTX 330. Do you know of a less expensive way to get transponder operating air traffic info into the cockpit and displayed on a moving map? I'd like to hear about it, if there is a better, cheaper alternative. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes Sky Bryce Airport (VG18) Basye, VA www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Johnson Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11:57 AM That transponder is almost FOUR GRAND!!!! _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:59 PM Milburn, 396 with weather overlay $2495. Can buy a cradle for it in your airplane and another for your car. Plop it into your aircraft to see aviation information (moving map), as well as weather conditions via satellite,.you can also see the locations of other nearby aircraft, just like what the controllers see, for all aircraft that are using a transponder, provided you also have the GTX-330 Transponder with Traffic Information Service (TIS). Then take the 396 out of the aircraft after your flight and put it into the automobile cradle and see a moving map of roadways, interstates, restaurant locations and stores. There are many less capable GPS systems from Garmin starting at about $400. Just do a google search on "Aviation GPS" and have fund learning about all of the new GPS offerings. The 396 is probably the best price/performance Portable GPS on the market as I speak. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes Sky Bryce Airport (VG18) Basye, VA www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milburn Reed Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:08 PM Please advise what GPS I should buy to use here on the ranch http://www.directcon.net/reedranch/ on the ground as well as later in my 701 when I get it built? How do you correlate Latitude and Longitude with township and range ? Mil Reed -- No virus found in this incoming message. 7/14/2006 -- 7/17/2006 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:59 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum Supplier confirmed that ALL 6061 they stock is T-6. Thanks for the reminder. Gary Do Not Archive _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JERICKSON03E@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:07 PM In a message dated 7/18/2006 5:44:07 PM Central Daylight Time, gboothe@calply.com writes: The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk and another lister (maybe Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more info from them. Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and without leading the supplier to an answer, they looked it up and immediately identified it as 6061. That is part of the spec, Also required is the T6 or T3,,, as in 6061-T6. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:49 PM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach Yes, guys, everything is fine. Lets start talking about airplanes again. Again everybody, sorry for the inadvertent mistake on my part. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes Sky Bryce Airport (VG18) Basye, VA www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hulland Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:46 PM All, I have already talked (email) with Jim. He was sending his apology as I wrote my email. Crossed it the mail. I believe all is fine. Steve Hulland Zenith 600 Amado, AZ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:18 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time I'm not sure if I would refer to you as odd man out, but there are some key differences between you and the average first time builder. Most guys I know wouldn't recognize a CNC machine if it fell on their front yard, much less how to use one. You also have a build partner, and two heads are definitely better than one in figuring this stuff out. From this and other posts, I'm also guessing you probably have much more experience in this sort of thing than the rest of us. Analysis to paralysis isn't so much the issue -- if you're a FIRST TIME builder (which is what the hours are supposed to be rated at), it should be presumed that you don't automatically know how to read and interpret plans (especially those riddled with errors). Analysis, therefore, is definitely required. This isn't meant to discourage anyone -- it's simply a caution for the new guys to avoid believing the hype in favor of reality. If you're building one of these things, just plan on it taking a long time. If you're ok with that, then go for it! Tom and Bren Henderson wrote: Wow, I may be the odd man out in this discussion. --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:48 PM PST US From: "David Plozay" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where can I buy Cortec 373? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Plozay" Zenith sells 373; 1 quart for $23. I used 1 quart for both the tail and 1/2 of the right wing; applied to all inside surfaces. You'd probably be able to get by with 1 quart if you only did mating surfaces - personal preference ofcourse. Apply the 373 with disposible foam brush, thinned with tap water according to directions. Be sure to thouroughly degrease surfaces by scrubbing with (well you know) Scotch-Brite and soapy water (Dawn takes grease out of your airframe). Skip degreasing with laquer thinner - way too toxic and not as good as soap and water. I also wear rubber gloves and a respirator when applying the 373 (and good ventallation). Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:25 AM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" > > William- check with Shirley at Zenith. I bought some from them about a > year ago. > Al Young > XL > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:22 PM > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez >> >> I want to use Cortec 373 for corrosions protection but >> I've been unable to find a place that will sell it, >> neither on line nor local. I've searched the archives >> and couldn't find a message that mention where to buy >> it. I checked the Cortec web site and no list of >> distributors. Did a search in Yahoo and Google and I >> got a lot of hits about Cortec but no one from a >> store. Checked some local stores and nothing. Does >> anyone know the secret place where I can buy this >> product? >> >> William Dominguez >> Zodiac 601XL Plans >> www.ea-report.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:55 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > I like to point here that I bought 6061T6 at a local > supplier of aluminum. He showed me 6061T351 and that > didn't have a radius in the fillet it was plainly > a straight angle. I told him it was the wrong one > and he had to cut me 6061T6, all 35 feet of it. So > specify that you need 6061T6 that has that radius. > Do not archive.. --- Gary Boothe wrote: > List, > > > > Just a follow-up from yesterday. I posted a question > about how to ID > aluminum angle if there were no ID marks on it. > There ensued a variety of > answers (imagine that!), all of them helpful and > enlightening. > > > > The best suggestion may have come from Bill Naumuk > and another lister (maybe > Jay in Texas), to call the supplier and get more > info from them. > Fortunately, there was a Lot # on the piece, and > without leading the > supplier to an answer, they looked it up and > immediately identified it as > 6061. > > > > When I questioned them about the profile they simply > replied that their > supplier always provides it in that profile. > > > > I'll go ahead with the pieces I purchased and if I > crash & die I'll come > back and haunt that establishment 'till the end of > time.. > > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, CA > > 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion > > Tail done, working on wings.... > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:55 PM PST US From: Tom and Bren Henderson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time I'm using a Vipros 358Z and Vipros 255 Punche along with an Amada 667 and Bystronic 3015 Laser. Most of the forming was done on an Astro robotic press brake. If the robot didn't do it, it was on another Amada brake. You sound like you've had some experience with CNC sheet metal? You can contact me off-list if you'd like more specifics on the parts and procedures. "Randy L. Thwing" wrote: Could you advise what CNC equipment you are using? You mention punching; Amada Pega, Strippet, etc.? Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive we're using CNC equipment to approximate the kit parts Zenith sells, but even with the programming and punch time ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:30 PM PST US From: "2thesky" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" Thanks, I have a buddy with an RV. Beautiful plane for sure, but I want less expensive option. His burns LOTS more fuel than other friends that run Rotax engines. ANd auto fuel, at that. Also, I am going to stay with LSA qualified airplanes in case I want to go that route. I am not interested too much in speed. An honest 100 mph is plenty fine for me. I am more worried about shooting for a 5 gph airplane than speed. I would give up cruise to gain a little fuel economy. Another interesting thing that is hindering my selection process is that I followed all the advice and got my wife involved. I took her flying, took her to airshows and asked for her input on the looks of the planes that I am looking at building. We have a friend that gave us both rides in his Kitfox. That did, it she is in love. She wants me to get a high wing (so she can look straight down) and her personal favorite is the HIghlander from Just Aircraft. I like that airplane, but I am looking at the number of flying Zenith models and their track record, so on and so forth. The good thing is that if I build a Zodiac first, maybe she will let me add a high wing for her to ride in! :) -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48418#48418 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:36 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dewey Beach Condo Rental - Right on the beach Hello Steve, Last email in this matter, yes lots of crossing mails, I will pay the first round of Corona beer when we meet either in OSH or S&F one year to come... In any Condo or Restaurant or Bar :-) :-) :-) Saludos Gary Gower Here we say: When some one makes a promise, he is in debt" Do not archive. Steve Hulland wrote: All, I have already talked (email) with Jim. He was sending his apology as I wrote my email. Crossed it the mail. I believe all is fine. Steve Hulland Zenith 600 Amado, AZ --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:53 PM PST US From: Tom and Bren Henderson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time Mike makes a good point when he mentions the impact of experience on build time, but the novice sheet metal mechanic could definitely complete the 601XL. I think it's safe to say that the correspondence in this list could well cut your build time by hundreds of hours if you pay attention. Mike mentions the plans being riddled with errors. He's right, but there exists a great community (this list) to interpret those mistakes and sometimes improve on the original design in the process. If you've got an internet connection (you're reading the list aren't you?), then you already have all the help you need to build a great little airplane. There are only two things you have to bring to the table. Money and determination. If you're a little short on the money side, an immense amount of determination can help offset some of the cost. Heck, there are guys I'm reading about in this list that are just completing fifteen year builds. Now THAT'S determination! Mike wrote: I'm not sure if I would refer to you as odd man out, but there are some key differences between you and the average first time builder. Most guys I know wouldn't recognize a CNC machine if it fell on their front yard, much less how to use one. You also have a build partner, and two heads are definitely better than one in figuring this stuff out. From this and other posts, I'm also guessing you probably have much more experience in this sort of thing than the rest of us. Analysis to paralysis isn't so much the issue -- if you're a FIRST TIME builder (which is what the hours are supposed to be rated at), it should be presumed that you don't automatically know how to read and interpret plans (especially those riddled with errors). Analysis, therefore, is definitely required. This isn't meant to discourage anyone -- it's simply a caution for the new guys to avoid believing the hype in favor of reality. If you're building one of these things, just plan on it taking a long time. If you're ok with that, then go for it! Tom and Bren Henderson wrote: Wow, I may be the odd man out in this discussion. --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:49 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: GPS Hi Jim, I am sure you are right that the Garmin equipment is very good if the buyer wants all that fancy stuff. On the other hand, I believe the original question was about GPS. You can get a quite functional GPS for under $500 if that is what you want. I bought a Lowrance Airmap 500 about a year ago on special for a little over $300. It is a quite functional aviation GPS. It has a small black and white screen and doesn't do any of the really fancy stuff like displaying terrain, satellite weather, or radar transponder stuff. On the other hand It knows where all the airports are and can easily help any pilot stay oriented and on the proper path to his destination. It is a very sophisticated navigation device that anyone would have killed for 20 years ago. Now it is just entry level electronic wizardry. I am sure there are many choices in between these extremes. I bought the Airmap 500 since it was inexpensive and I wanted to learn how to use a GPS. I had read articles pointing out that many pilots couldn't figure out how to operate these gizmos. After months of using it in my car I can understand why it takes a considerable amount of practice and not a few mistakes to get this technology to work for you. If you only have one (with all the extra bells and whistles) in a rental plane to play with then I can imagine you will never get it figured out. I will probably buy a larger GPS with a color screen to go in my plane when it is at that stage. For now, the low end unit is just fine for me. Another possibility is I will buy an EFIS system with built in GPS. I hope the experience I had with the low end unit will make learning the more sophisticated equipment easier. Paul XL fuselage At 05:15 PM 7/18/2006, you wrote: >Yes, that is correct. A little under $4000 for the Garmin GTX >330. Do you know of a less expensive way to get transponder >operating air traffic info into the cockpit and displayed on a >moving map? I'd like to hear about it, if there is a better, >cheaper alternative. > > >Jim - ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:32 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) But TIS coverage is not particularly wide-spread (especially out west where I live): www.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp Here is a cheaper alternative ($500-$1800) with its own pluses and minuses: www.zaonflight.com/ -- Craig ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:37 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Hat with tail number Me too. Bob Spudis N701ZX In a message dated 7/18/2006 7:55:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stol10@comcast.net writes: Please tell your friend that I'd like one for a 701.......Geoff ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:27 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Zenith-List: Builder signatures I suggest that most everyone posting lately add Do not archive to their automated signature. That way you won't forget, and the archives won't get clogged with all the garbage postings that have run rampant in the last couple months. Only a small percentage have anything worth reading and saving. Dave 601-HD 912ULS Wisconsin do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:13 PM PST US From: "tjlhl" Subject: Zenith-List: FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR SALE I have the two new skins purchased 02/06 which show 3-4 small crease bends that you have to find by looking at an angle. This is the down side of .016, how ever the little creases tend to disappear once the skin is bowed, as it will be when installed on top of the fuse. The up side of course is the light weight. As with any alum with small defects, they may be repaired after installation by spraying filler prime paint and sanding. I will take $70.00 for the two of them, which is about half price. You pay $5.00 for the box and shipping. Let me know if you might want them. Thanks, Tom L. ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:13 PM PST US From: "tjlhl" Subject: Zenith-List: ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:16 PM PST US From: "tjlhl" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: FOR SALE: 601 XL .016 MIDDLE AND REAR TOP SKINS FOR SALE ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:27 PM I have the two new skins purchased 02/06 which show 3-4 small crease bends that you have to find by looking at an angle. This is the down side of .016, how ever the little creases tend to disappear once the skin is bowed, as it will be when installed on top of the fuse. The up side of course is the light weight. As with any alum with small defects, they may be repaired after installation by spraying filler prime paint and sanding. I will take $70.00 for the two of them, which is about half price. You pay $5.00 for the box plus shipping. Let me know if you might want them. Thanks, Tom L. ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:17 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Electronics Members, I notice a lot of traffic concerning electronics, like GPS, Transponders all that new so called glass stuff that is real expensive. Just wait a while and the price will go down. Right after I bought a Garmin 296 for $1695.00 the price went down to $1495.00. When the 396 has been out for a while, it will go down also. Pricing is no longer baised on fair margin of profit, it is baised on what can be squezed out of the fat cats and always goes down after sales start to fall off. As for building a XL in 500 hours. This is very possible if a crew of 5 experenced mechanics are doing the building, however if only one guy with minimum experence is doing the building 500 hours is also possible providing the XL is the little model that Zenith sells. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx. ZodiacXL Do not Archive. ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:55 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Builder signatures How do you do an automated signature? do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Builder signatures I suggest that most everyone posting lately add Do not archive to their automated signature. That way you won't forget, and the archives won't get clogged with all the garbage postings that have run rampant in the last couple months. Only a small percentage have anything worth reading and saving. Dave 601-HD 912ULS Wisconsin do not archive ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:01 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time Hello Phyr I will tell you my point of view with reference of my personal experience in this airplanes (Zenith 701 finished and flying and working on a "standard kit" 601 XL). As a first project, you need at least about 300 hrs more (most of them in organizing, this includes knowing the plans and manual, and getting every step ready), from the 500 advertized, not bad. Is a well designed airplane in the simple to build side of the homebuilding market. Not counting the very expensive "glue two shells" of the fast composite super kits :-) 800 hrs will be close, IF (very important) you are in a hurry to fly the plane and you will not pay much attention to detail... This is for a safe no aishow quality airplane. To build a good looking, airplane (rounded corners and edges, primered inside, straight and well spaced rivets, well designed and wired instrument panel, a "couple" of rebuilt parts that looked not as you will like,etc) I will think of at least 1,000 hrs (for a beguiner), but is worth the extra work and efort (been there done that). Just visit any good size fly in, to see examples of diferent airplanes in both sides of the "perfection", A have looked to a couple that I would not like to be below them if flown over me :-) Is a shame all that money and time invested. Just a little care and love will make a great airplane, is your desision. What ever way you decide to go, PLEASE keep it light and simple, you will never be sorry for the great performance you will get since first flight. Also, Very Important! The worse enemy of any project is not working Constantly in it... try to work on the project daily if possible, even just looking at the plans or making a little part will do, once you beguin leaving the project aside for a "few" days, will become worse with time and probably will never be finished. Hope this helps and welcome to the list... No first hand experience in fast built kits... Yet... Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala. Mexico. Phyrcooler wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in 6 or 7 months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit - and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of you builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250 look like a valid estimate? Is 500 valid for a standard? If so... WOW... Thanks folks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48332#48332 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:43 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: Zenith-List: Prices Hello I need prices on the following parts (please) for the Zodiac XL: 6B8-6 rev-0 =BC in Nyloil upper bearing 6B9-4 rev-0 Central Pedal Bearing 6b21-5 rev-0 fiberglass Saddle 6G2-1 rev-2 Nyloil Nose Gear Bottom Bearing Plans for dual sticks option Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:45 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Builder signatures --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Dave, this depends on the email product you are using. Look under menu option "tools", then "options" and then click the tab "signature" Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada --- Dave Ruddiman a crit : > How do you do an automated signature? > > do not archive > > __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:36 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Time I am the other building partner Tom is speaking of. I just added up my builders log and I have 92 hrs in my airplane so far. I am about halfway done with my fuselage. My firewall is near complete. Now I do have to say that the CNC machine does so much work, there is times that I am literally skipping pages of instructions from the plans. I built my first rudder from the parts Tom cut from the CNC machine. I did not have to drill any holes in the doublers, spar or even cut the angles at the bottom of the doublers. There was no laying out rivet lines. I had a total time of 2.5 hrs building my first rudder and it came out awesome. I then had it stolen by a scrape dealer when I was moving and had it setting in my front yard. I was going to use the CNC parts again, but I decided to build a rudder at the Zenith shop in Cloverdale, CA on May 6th. I have to admit, that when I got there and saw the parts sitting on the table. I had a lot more work to do on this one. I had almost 8 hrs in this one when I was done and I already knew what I was doing. I did not have to cut the bottom of the skin with the CNC parts, but I had to with the Zenith parts. I even have a stack of L angles that already have holes drilled. They match up with the skins and you mark, cut and install. My build time even includes Zinc Chromating all my parts. Since Zenith is now using a CNC for some of their parts, the build time should drop for future kit builders. Me and Tom will be well within the 500 hrs. I think in 500 hrs, I will have the motor rebuilt and probably near flying stage. I do think that this is abnormal for most scrape builders though. I got lucky and I appreciate that CNC machine every time I match a piece and cleco it without having to do the work that the plans show. Larry Husky Lakeview, OR 601XL / Corvair Building Fuse Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:32 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Prices Sorry all, I meant to send that to ZAC. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:10 AM Hello I need prices on the following parts (please) for the Zodiac XL: 6B8-6 rev-0 =BC in Nyloil upper bearing 6B9-4 rev-0 Central Pedal Bearing 6b21-5 rev-0 fiberglass Saddle 6G2-1 rev-2 Nyloil Nose Gear Bottom Bearing Plans for dual sticks option Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE