Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - test "do not archive" in PROFILE (Geoff Heap)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE (Geoff Heap)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) (Jim Pellien)
4. 06:33 AM - Re: Prices (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: 601 Hat with tail number (Paul Tipton)
6. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE (Noel Loveys)
7. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: 601 Hat with tail number (Gary Boothe)
9. 08:06 AM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 08:25 AM - Rear Channel Splice (Randy Bryant)
11. 08:27 AM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 09:29 AM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Russell J.)
13. 09:35 AM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Jeffrey J Paris)
14. 09:43 AM - Re: Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) (Craig Payne)
15. 09:54 AM - Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE (Matt Dralle)
16. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE (Matt Dralle)
17. 10:17 AM - Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (2thesky)
18. 10:21 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Debo Cox)
19. 10:22 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (kevinbonds)
20. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 10:38 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (kevinbonds)
22. 10:46 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (LHusky@aol.com)
23. 10:50 AM - Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
24. 10:57 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Randy Bryant)
25. 11:02 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Randy Bryant)
26. 11:23 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Randy Bryant)
27. 11:37 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Randy Bryant)
28. 11:37 AM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Tom and Bren Henderson)
29. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE (NYTerminat@aol.com)
30. 12:25 PM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Randy Bryant)
31. 12:38 PM - Re: Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) (Jim Pellien)
32. 01:53 PM - A backup pneumatic riveter at a reasonable price (Robert L. Stone)
33. 02:03 PM - Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE (Edward Moody II)
34. 02:48 PM - Re: Another Scrap-builder Question. (Flydog1966@AOL.COM)
35. 02:56 PM - Re: Another Scrap-builder Question. (Flydog1966@aol.com)
36. 02:56 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (Phyrcooler)
37. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time ()
38. 03:26 PM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Zodie Rocket)
39. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Jaybannist@cs.com)
40. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (LHusky@aol.com)
41. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE (Steve Hulland)
42. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (John Bolding)
43. 05:06 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Steve Hulland)
44. 05:06 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Robert L. Stone)
45. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (LHusky@aol.com)
46. 05:50 PM - Re: Rear Channel Splice (Randy Bryant)
47. 06:21 PM - Re: A backup pneumatic riveter at a reasonable price (Dave Austin)
48. 06:38 PM - Re: A backup pneumatic riveter (not so backup) (N5SL)
49. 07:02 PM - Re: Returned Mail: Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Robert L. Stone)
50. 07:16 PM - 601 XL Build Time (Jim)
51. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Lynn Dingfelder)
52. 07:28 PM - Re: A backup pneumatic riveter (not so backup) (Robert L. Stone)
53. 08:07 PM - Caps with image and tail number (Dan & Paula)
54. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Paul Moore)
55. 08:26 PM - Re: Caps with image and tail number (NYTerminat@aol.com)
56. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: Returned Mail: Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Tom and Bren Henderson)
57. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Build Time (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
58. 11:15 PM - Re: 601XL Build Time (lgingell)
59. 11:51 PM - Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE Question to Matt.... (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | test "do not archive" in PROFILE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
I set my signature in my PROFILE to ".....Geoff.......do not archive"
Lets see if it follows this text. Just in case though DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
.....Geoff........Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48496#48496
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Reply to my own message.
Yup, there it is at the bottom of the post.
1st type what you want in the signature
2nd Check the option to always show your signature in your posts
--------
.....Geoff........Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48498#48498
Message 3
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| Subject: | Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) |
$1795 is a reasonable price for Zaon unit, until you also consider that you
still need a regular transponder as well at about $2000 bringing the total
up to $3795. I would still opt for the Garmin 396 with the GTX-330 for a
couple hundred more.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:52 PM
But TIS coverage is not particularly wide-spread (especially out west where
I live):
www.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp
Here is a cheaper alternative ($500-$1800) with its own pluses and minuses:
www.zaonflight.com/
-- Craig
Message 4
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Kevin, why not just call Shirley or Joyce at ZAC and inquire about prices.
They have always helped me out when not too busy with customers at the shop.
Best regards, B of G
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Hat with tail number |
Me too!
Paul Tipton
CH701
321PT
Do not archive.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
That's an excellent idea!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Geoff Heap
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:22 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
>
> Reply to my own message.
> Yup, there it is at the bottom of the post.
>
> 1st type what you want in the signature
> 2nd Check the option to always show your signature in your posts
>
> --------
> .....Geoff........Do not archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48498#48498
>
>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I fully understand your selection criteria (LSA) but I must point out a
correction.
Your buddy's RV only consumes more fuel for two possible reasons.
1) The engine makes more power...i.e it's a bigger engine run at a
higher power setting
2) Its being run too rich...I.e he is not leaning it correctly.
If you have an engine that makes the same horsepower at the same mixture
setting it will consume the same amount of few to within a few ounces
per hour.
Incidently most of the lycomings will run autofuel quite happily.
Even though it's a MUCH more expensive plane with FI and a constant
speed prop, there is a guy wih an RV7 called Dan checkoway. He has
demonstrated a 134knot cruise at 34 miles per gallon.....There was no
way on the face of this Earth I could get close to that kind of fuel
consumption or that kind of speed at ANY fuel consumption...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2thesky
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:01 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
Thanks,
I have a buddy with an RV. Beautiful plane for sure, but I want less
expensive option. His burns LOTS more fuel than other friends that run
Rotax engines. ANd auto fuel, at that. Also, I am going to stay with
LSA qualified airplanes in case I want to go that route. I am not
interested too much in speed. An honest 100 mph is plenty fine for me.
I am more worried about shooting for a 5 gph airplane than speed. I
would give up cruise to gain a little fuel economy. Another interesting
thing that is hindering my selection process is that I followed all the
advice and got my wife involved. I took her flying, took her to
airshows and asked for her input on the looks of the planes that I am
looking at building. We have a friend that gave us both rides in his
Kitfox. That did, it she is in love. She wants me to get a high wing
(so she can look straight down) and her personal favorite is the
HIghlander from Just Aircraft. I like that airplane, but I am looking
at the num!
ber of flying Zenith models and their track record, so on and so forth.
The good thing is that if I build a Zodiac first, maybe she will let me
add a high wing for her to ride in! :)
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48418#48418
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Hat with tail number |
All you guys that want hats, just go to www.johnsplane.com
<http://www.johnsplane.com/> . I e-mailed Dorothy there and she immediately
modified the 601 to a taildragger and made the hat the next day.
I'll bet she would be able to come up with a 701 if you all show her what
the demand might be.
Good luck,
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Me too!
Paul Tipton
CH701
321PT
Do not archive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes the RV will take you twice as long...And this conversation is moot
because the requirement is for an LSA. I am not totatlly conviced you
could not build a low end RV9 for a similar cost to a high end XL...I
mean you can put an 0235 in each airplane so then in theory you are down
to the price difference of the kits. There are alternate engines for the
RV but I'm not sure it is worth the hassle. I think RV's come out "twice
as expensive" because of folks put into them rather than the absolute
cost driver.
The real world top speed of the Rv9 a is about 171mph that's on
118HP..Not too shabby!...
The big drawback is the solid rivets and that's why it will take you
longer...However the quality of the RV kits is truly stunning, When they
say "matched hole technology" they mean it!
Frank
Do not archive
For example, Frank Hinde has claimed how good the RV-9A is compared to
the Zodiac in a post today. What he didn't tell you is it takes twice
as much money and twice as much time to build as the XL and gives you
perhaps 10 or 20 knots increased speed for all this extra cost. It also
gives you a free castoring nose wheel instead of the nose gear steering
in the XL. That means you must use differential braking to keep the
plane aligned while trying to take off with a crosswind. This is not
the case with the Zodiac.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Rear Channel Splice |
I'm not sure how many scratch builders we have that actually need to
make the XL wing rear channel splice, but I thought I'd pass along this
info:
There is an image of a pencil sketch, I presume, drawn by Chris Heinz,
downloadable at several sites on the net outlining the rear channel
splice. I used this pencil sketch image and drew a "CAD type" version
of it to make it easier to read for builders. It is downloadable from
my website at: http://www.n344rb.com. Go to the site and click on the
[PLANS] link and you can find it there. If anyone needs it, feel free
to use it.
Thanks in advance,
Randy Bryant
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601XL Build Time |
And when you have the airframe completly finished you will be about 50%
done...:)
Frank
Do not archive
________________________________
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom and
Bren Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:45 PM
Wow, I may be the odd man out in this discussion. My build partner
and I are each at about the same stage in our builds. The tail section
is complete, and the fuselage is about 75% complete. We chose to build
the wings last. The thing is, we have easily less than 200 hours into
the builds each. I have no doubt that we'll come in under the 500 hour
mark, although neither of us are gunning for it. It takes whatever it
takes. This is for the airframe only of course (prior to engine,
instruments, and wiring).
The kicker here is that we're both scratch building. Granted, we're
using CNC equipment to approximate the kit parts Zenith sells, but even
with the programming and punch time, I'm still below 200 hours. Pick up
the parts from Zenith, and you're right there with us.
The short version of this is these are very quick to build aircraft.
You could easily be caught up in analysis paralysis, as with any kit,
but avoid that and you've got an airframe in no time. The Sloooow build
(ie-Scratch Build) version will go together faster than most Quick build
kits from some of the other manufacturers.
Phyrcooler <phyrcooler@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler"
I am currently researching kit planes - looking to start one in
6 or 7 months. I am currently focusing on the LSA's out there due
significantly to build times. Zenith claims 500 hours for a STANDARD kit
- and half that for a quick build. What has been the experience of you
builders out there? I understand there are only a few quick-builds
currently under construction - possibly none completed yet. Does 250
look like a
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
>And when you have the airframe completly finished you will be about 50%
done...:)
>Frank
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
My air frame is done, but it is feeling more like 25% done.
Now gathering components for a corvair engine.
Russell / 601-HDS
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Dear Mr. "Phyrcooler",
My retired Father and I received our Zenith Zodiac Kit in late June of 2001. We
have never built a kit of any kind before this, I was definitely interested
in how much time does it really take to do a top notch job. In our case it took
us 1500 hours on the nose to complete our plane. 800 hours for the the Zenith
airframe and 700 housr firewall forward. The only thing we didn't do was
the sewing of our upholstery for our seats and we were convinced by a close building
friend to purchase the firewall forward kit for our Jabiru 3300 engine.
My local FSDO and DAR we so impressed with our builders log and record keeping
that it was remarked..."this should be the standard in building logs!"
Build Specifics of N196ZP Zenith Zodiac CH601XL:
Airframe was totally primed inside and out with acid etching primer.
Akzo Noble 2 part polyurethane paint.
Jabiru 3300 engine
Standard 2 12 gal tanks
Aileron trim and elevator trim
VFR NIght capable
Dynon EFIS
Xerion Engine Analyzer
Icom Radios
King Tansponder
Cold Cathode tube internal cabin lighting system
Total investment $56,000.00 USD Satisfaction of owning, maintaining and flying
an airplane that you built...PRICELESS!
88 total hours on the airframe and the aircraft has delivered on all promises made
by Zenith.
Every kit has it's warts, but would we do it again absolutely and we always have
our eyes open for the next building opportunity, but for now we are truly enjoying
our airplane. Remember that no one is going to hand you anything on a
silver plate and always try to do something everyday.
Our aircraft has been a real joy to fly and operate
--- On Tue 07/18, Phyrcooler < phyrcooler@HOTMAIL.COM > wrote:
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) |
But the Zaon units will work where there is no TIS radar coverage. And you
can spend $500 instead of $1800 if you can live with distance but no bearing
information.
-- Craig
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:17 AM
$1795 is a reasonable price for Zaon unit, until you also consider that you
still need a regular transponder as well at about $2000 bringing the total
up to $3795. I would still opt for the Garmin 396 with the GTX-330 for a
couple hundred more.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:52 PM
But TIS coverage is not particularly wide-spread (especially out west where
I live):
www.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp
Here is a cheaper alternative ($500-$1800) with its own pluses and minuses:
www.zaonflight.com/
-- Craig
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 04:47 AM 7/19/2006 Wednesday, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
>
>I set my signature in my PROFILE to ".....Geoff.......do knot archive"
>Lets see if it follows this text. Just in case though DO KNOT ARCHIVE
>Read this topic online here:
Geoff and others,
Please _do not_ do this!
This permanently kills valuable threads of discussion unnecessarily. If someone
responds to your message with some information that should have been in the
archive, then it doesn't make it.
I can't stress enough, _do not_ put the "do knot archive" string in your signature
file.
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 07:32 AM 7/19/2006 Wednesday, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
>That's an excellent idea!
>
>
>Noel
>
>
NO! Its a horrible idea. Whole threads of discussion can get diverted from the
archives because people requote messages which includes the DNA string.
I can't stress enough, _do not_ do this!
The DNA string is for occasional, and specific use only.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
I fully agree. BUT most of my flying is done within 50 miles of my house. It
would be different if I was wanting an airplane to go places in. My buddies RV
handles like a fighter. I love it, but in the pattern doing touch and goes,
where I spend lots of my time, it uses more fuel than the Kitfox does. Not sire
of the fuel consumption of an XL with a 912S. THe RV is a -6 with an 0-320
150 hp Lyc. It was built and is flown by a retired Navy fighter, private charter,
and major airline pilot who has instructed the last 10 years. If his RV
was capable of using less fuel, I am sure he would know how to do it. It uses
almost the same amount of fuel flying circles around the patch as the Warrior
I am renting now. BUT the -6 is about 7 times the fun. In cruise it is FAR,
FAR more economical than the Warrior and probably even the XL, but as I said
most of my flying is local sight seeing and touch and goes for an hour or so after
work. I really want to stay within the limits of SportPilot anyway. If
I wasn't going to an RV-9 taildragger would be on the top of the list. A Glastar
would be second.
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48580#48580
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
Wow Randy! Thanks for the mucho cool drawings for the rear splice. I mean, the
pencil sketch is good, but your drawing really cleans things up and make this
much more understandable and easier to visualize. Thanks for the nice work.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC (3 miles from the Wright Brothers first flight)
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 19
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| Subject: | Rear Channel Splice |
Nice Randy,
And BTW thanks for linking my site. I'll add a link to yours on mine.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Is the Zodiac unusually strong? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yup different mission than you want altogether.
On a normal airplane engines it is rare to bother with leaning in the
pattern...By their very nature they will run rich. Your buddy could most
certainly make it use less fuel but the time spent in the pattern is
usually small compared to flying cross country. As you say it also has
150HP all of which gets used on take off.
What would be better for you is a Rotax with altitude compensating
carbs..Or any other engine with the same carbs for that matter.
Good luck on your choice.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2thesky
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:16 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
I fully agree. BUT most of my flying is done within 50 miles of my
house. It would be different if I was wanting an airplane to go places
in. My buddies RV handles like a fighter. I love it, but in the
pattern doing touch and goes, where I spend lots of my time, it uses
more fuel than the Kitfox does. Not sire of the fuel consumption of an
XL with a 912S. THe RV is a -6 with an 0-320 150 hp Lyc. It was built
and is flown by a retired Navy fighter, private charter, and major
airline pilot who has instructed the last 10 years. If his RV was
capable of using less fuel, I am sure he would know how to do it. It
uses almost the same amount of fuel flying circles around the patch as
the Warrior I am renting now. BUT the -6 is about 7 times the fun. In
cruise it is FAR, FAR more economical than the Warrior and probably even
the XL, but as I said most of my flying is local sight seeing and touch
and goes for an hour or so after work. I really want to stay within the
limits !
of SportPilot anyway. If I wasn't going to an RV-9 taildragger would
be on the top of the list. A Glastar would be second.
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48580#48580
Message 21
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| Subject: | Rear Channel Splice |
Oops. Randy I just noticed a mistake on you splice plans. Where the ends of
the spliced channels meet, the rivets should be 10mm from each edge. Making
for 20mm between rivet lines.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:23 AM
I'm not sure how many scratch builders we have that actually need to make
the XL wing rear channel splice, but I thought I'd pass along this info:
There is an image of a pencil sketch, I presume, drawn by Chris Heinz,
downloadable at several sites on the net outlining the rear channel splice.
I used this pencil sketch image and drew a "CAD type" version of it to make
it easier to read for builders. It is downloadable from my website at:
http://www.n344rb.com. Go to the site and click on the [PLANS] link and you
can find it there. If anyone needs it, feel free to use it.
Thanks in advance,
Randy Bryant
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
Randy, I am looking at your plans for the splice. I see that from the
splice to each end is 1830mm on both sides. Then above that is a total length
of
3525mm. 1830mm X 2 is 3660mm. Am I missing something?
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE |
knot ??
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
You're welcome!
Thanks,
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinbonds
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Nice Randy,
And BTW thanks for linking my site. I'll add a link to yours on mine.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
Thanks,
I did that drawing a while back for my own use, as like you said, "the
pencil sketch is good", but I just wanted a more "cleaned up" version...
I've hesitated a while on posting it afraid that someone would be
offended thinking I was trying to improve on the design..etc., but
really, all I did was clean up the pencil sketch... At any rate, if
anyone wants to use my drawing, feel free to do so...
Randy Bryant
Topton, NC
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Wow Randy! Thanks for the mucho cool drawings for the rear splice. I
mean, the pencil sketch is good, but your drawing really cleans things
up and make this much more understandable and easier to visualize.
Thanks for the nice work.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC (3 miles from the Wright Brothers first flight)
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
Thanks for the heads-up Kevin, I have uploaded a revised version to my
site.
Thanks!
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinbonds
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Oops. Randy I just noticed a mistake on you splice plans. Where the
ends of the spliced channels meet, the rivets should be 10mm from each
edge. Making for 20mm between rivet lines.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:23 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
I'm not sure how many scratch builders we have that actually need to
make the XL wing rear channel splice, but I thought I'd pass along this
info:
There is an image of a pencil sketch, I presume, drawn by Chris Heinz,
downloadable at several sites on the net outlining the rear channel
splice. I used this pencil sketch image and drew a "CAD type" version
of it to make it easier to read for builders. It is downloadable from
my website at: http://www.n344rb.com. Go to the site and click on the
[PLANS] link and you can find it there. If anyone needs it, feel free
to use it.
Thanks in advance,
Randy Bryant
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
Yep, you are right... BUT, as I said before, I just copied/took from
the original drawing I assume to be by Chris Heinz... These were the
dimensions on the drawings, and I left them at that... Attached is the
original pencil sketch... If anyone sees anymore errors, let me know
and I'll fix them.. AGAIN, I wasn't trying to improve on the design,
just make a neater, more readable document...
Thanks,
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Randy, I am looking at your plans for the splice. I see that from the
splice to each end is 1830mm on both sides. Then above that is a total
length of 3525mm. 1830mm X 2 is 3660mm. Am I missing something?
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
I don't think you have to worry about someone being offended that you might
try to improve on the design. We've all got the same sets of plans, and we all
know the pencil sketch is about as good as they get. I don't think most builders
would be upset if you re-drew EVERY print for clarification. lol
Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote: Thanks,
I did that drawing a while back for my own use, as like you said, "the pencil
sketch is good", but I just wanted a more "cleaned up" version... I've hesitated
a while on posting it afraid that someone would be offended thinking I
was trying to improve on the design..etc., but really, all I did was clean up
the pencil sketch... At any rate, if anyone wants to use my drawing, feel free
to do so...
From one TarHeel to another, Thanks!
Randy Bryant
Topton, NC
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Wow Randy! Thanks for the mucho cool drawings for the rear splice. I mean,
the pencil sketch is good, but your drawing really cleans things up and make
this much more understandable and easier to visualize. Thanks for the nice
work.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC (3 miles from the Wright Brothers first flight)
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE |
In what profile are you referring to??
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/19/2006 10:36:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
That's an excellent idea!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Geoff Heap
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:22 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
>
> Reply to my own message.
> Yup, there it is at the bottom of the post.
>
> 1st type what you want in the signature
> 2nd Check the option to always show your signature in your posts
>
> --------
> .....Geoff........Do not archive
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
Thanks,
As I said, I just drew it for my own use then later decided to share it
if anyone else wanted to use it.
One word of caution here:
On the pencil sketch, and I left it the same in my drawings, it lists
the rear channel splice as measuring 6 feet from each end. Be careful
here. The correct way to get your splice to come out in the right
location is to measure from the O/B end where the 45 degree angle is,
I/B 3525mm and make a mark there. THEN from that mark you just made on
the I/B end, measure towards outbound 1830mm, make a mark there and that
will be the correct location of your splice... Trust me on this one, I
made the mistake... I don't consider the mistake 'detrimental enough'
to have to remake my rear channel though, I just had to make my rear
splice plate 140mm longer (added a little bit of extra weight) to
compensate for it... I don't mind it as the part is a little more rigid
because of it.
Thanks,
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom and Bren Henderson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
I don't think you have to worry about someone being offended that
you might try to improve on the design. We've all got the same sets of
plans, and we all know the pencil sketch is about as good as they get.
I don't think most builders would be upset if you re-drew EVERY print
for clarification. lol
Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
Thanks,
I did that drawing a while back for my own use, as like you said,
"the pencil sketch is good", but I just wanted a more "cleaned up"
version... I've hesitated a while on posting it afraid that someone
would be offended thinking I was trying to improve on the design..etc.,
but really, all I did was clean up the pencil sketch... At any rate, if
anyone wants to use my drawing, feel free to do so...
From one TarHeel to another, Thanks!
Randy Bryant
Topton, NC
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Wow Randy! Thanks for the mucho cool drawings for the rear splice.
I mean, the pencil sketch is good, but your drawing really cleans things
up and make this much more understandable and easier to visualize.
Thanks for the nice work.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC (3 miles from the Wright Brothers first flight)
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Traffic Information Systems (was GPS) |
Isn't the world great...lots of choices, options and alternatives..also no
black/white definitive choice...each has a nitch.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:41 PM
But the Zaon units will work where there is no TIS radar coverage. And you
can spend $500 instead of $1800 if you can live with distance but no bearing
information.
-- Craig
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:17 AM
$1795 is a reasonable price for Zaon unit, until you also consider that you
still need a regular transponder as well at about $2000 bringing the total
up to $3795. I would still opt for the Garmin 396 with the GTX-330 for a
couple hundred more.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:52 PM
But TIS coverage is not particularly wide-spread (especially out west where
I live):
www.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp
Here is a cheaper alternative ($500-$1800) with its own pluses and minuses:
www.zaonflight.com/
-- Craig
Message 32
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| Subject: | A backup pneumatic riveter at a reasonable price |
To those of you who would like to have a backup pneumatic riveter,
check the attachment out from a page out of the Harbor Freight catalog.
Of course since the tip needs to be concave you will have to modify it
or send it to Zenith and they will do it for you for a price of course.
The add image is in the uper right of the page, use the + magnifing
glass to enlarge it so you can read it. Their toll free number for
ordering is at the top of the attached page.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL, Do not Archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE |
Yeah, as in,"Don't include this in the nautical archive"
Do Not Archive any of this
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE
knot ??
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
In a message dated 7/17/2006 5:15:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nfivesl@yahoo.com writes:
the ZAC supplied angles from my rudder
workshop were absolutely square. I have purchased
other 6061-T6 extrusions from Aircraft Spruce that
were square.
And I'll second that ! And I would use 2024 T3,or T4 in place of 6061
T6,but free advice is worth the price you pay. Why not ask Zenith for there
advice?
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
In a message dated 7/17/2006 5:36:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe@calply.com writes:
Anyone got any ideas on how to ID 6061 extruded vs. 6063
If its not printed right down the length of it, like every piece of
"aircraft grade"alum(or 2024 T3/4), I would find some other use for it.
do not archive
Flydog
ch 701
too much to go
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
Thank you all for your thoughts. It seems like your answers vary quite a bit -
however, with most agreeing that it takes WAAAY longer than what Zenith advertises.
I think that unfamiliarity with the product would naturally make it go
slow. Conversely - a second time builder would probably cut hundreds of hours
off just because he "got it" and knew what to do when reading the plans... or
in spite of the plans. But how many second time builders of the SAME plane
would there be...! Most folks move to something different - usually higher performance
or different mission oriented when they do a second plane.
I have picked up from a couple of posts that the plans and illustrations leave
much to be desired - which concerns me. Is this feeling universal?
I am curious however, if Ed Moody could summarize his previous builder experience,
if any. He seems to be on track if he can build both wings and tail in 250
hours...
For anyone else out there who hasn't posted... any further thoughts on your build
time, or any others with careful builders logs that calculated time?
Thanks again to all of you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48670#48670
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <zman601xl@verizon.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Dear Mr. "Phyrcooler",
My retired Father and I received our Zenith Zodiac Kit in late June of 2001. We
have never built a kit of any kind before this, I was definitely interested
in how much time does it really take to do a top notch job. In our case it took
us 1500 hours on the nose to complete our plane. 800 hours for the the Zenith
airframe and 700 housr firewall forward. The only thing we didn't do was
the sewing of our upholstery for our seats and we were convinced by a close building
friend to purchase the firewall forward kit for our Jabiru 3300 engine.
My local FSDO and DAR we so impressed with our builders log and record keeping
that it was remarked..."this should be the standard in building logs!"
Build Specifics of N196ZP Zenith Zodiac CH601XL:
Airframe was totally primed inside and out with acid etching primer.
Akzo Noble 2 part polyurethane paint.
Jabiru 3300 engine
Standard 2 12 gal tanks
Aileron trim and elevator trim
VFR NIght capable
Dynon EFIS
Xerion Engine Analyzer
Icom Radios
King Tansponder
Cold Cathode tube internal cabin lighting system
Total investment $56,000.00 USD Satisfaction of owning, maintaining and flying
an airplane that you built...PRICELESS!
88 total hours on the airframe and the aircraft has delivered on all promises made
by Zenith.
Every kit has it's warts, but would we do it again absolutely and we always have
our eyes open for the next building opportunity, but for now we are truly enjoying
our airplane. Remember that no one is going to hand you anything on a
silver plate and always try to do something everyday.
Our aircraft has been a real joy to fly and operate
--- On Tue 07/18, Phyrcooler < phyrcooler@HOTMAIL.COM > wrote:
Jeff,
I had the pleasure of looking your plane over at the Rochester open house(before
security told us to move on).From what little I got to see I really think you
did a great job.You mean you didn't finish it in 500 hrs like the brochure says....SMILE.I've
got 500 hrs in mine(flt cont. surfaces/wings,etc.,and am now
working on the fuselage.
Bob Haring
Zman601xl@verizon.net
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 38
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| Subject: | Rear Channel Splice |
Hi Randy, I=92m not offended that you don=92t like my pencilmanship But
it
was the best I could do and it provides the information needed. I would
like to exchange my pencil drawing for your CAD drawing on ch601.org but
I would also like you to add a cross section to the splice showing that
it is in fact a channel splice and not a plate splice.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:58 PM
Thanks,
I did that drawing a while back for my own use, as like you said, "the
pencil sketch is good", but I just wanted a more "cleaned up" version...
I've hesitated a while on posting it afraid that someone would be
offended thinking I was trying to improve on the design..etc., but
really, all I did was clean up the pencil sketch... At any rate, if
anyone wants to use my drawing, feel free to do so...
Randy Bryant
Topton, NC
XL Wings - Plans Only
HYPERLINK "http://www.n344rb.com"http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
"mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com"zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:20 PM
Wow Randy! Thanks for the mucho cool drawings for the rear splice. I
mean, the pencil sketch is good, but your drawing really cleans things
up and make this much more understandable and easier to visualize.
Thanks for the nice work.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC (3 miles from the Wright Brothers first flight)
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
Get on board. HYPERLINK
"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40791/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/h
a
ndraisers"You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/18/2006
--
7/18/2006
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
I have completed tail feathers, both wings and am about 50% complete with the
fuselage (not including canopy & gear). I have 408 hours directly spent on
the airplane and 35 hours of other (essential) efforts. I am not compulsive
about buidling a "show plane." I do want to be proud of the finished product
and I AM going to fly it, so I do not compromise structural safety.
Hope that adds something to your thought process.
Jay in Dallas
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
I forgot to mention that I have never built anything out of metal before. I
cut a piece of tin off the roof of the barn once. I have 92 hrs in the tail
section and half of the fuselage. For me, it is the quality of parts I am
receiving that makes my build go quickly. Mine is truly a match and rivet
quality. My rivet lines are laser straight, rivets are flush and everything is
square. No smiles in the skins. (Knock on wood.) I have only had one piece
that did not match up. Below is a picture of my stabilizer rear attachment.
I did not have to drill one of those holes, nor did I have to fabricate the
rear attachment. All this was done on the machine. You can see the time
savings here alone. My whole plane is like this. I don't think I had to drill
one hole in my firewall either. You can see that the corners are rounded
and all I had to do was clean up a few edges. If ZAC could put out parts like
this, they could hit their mark of 500 hrs. Again, I am LUCKY in having
access to the CNC machine. Having built from these parts and the rudder from
ZAC
parts. I could see that someone like myself, it would take longer than 500
hrs.
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: test "do not archive" in PROFILE |
Putting "Do Not Archive" in your salutation is not a very good idea. As per
our esteemed keeper of the list, we would lose a great number of threads. I
timed it, takes almost fourteen seconds to type in Do Not Archive if you are
a one finger or two finger typist - less than five seconds if you type with
both hands and all fingers. Almost took more time to look down at, up from
and back down at the watch to type.
Not an excellent idea.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
But how many second time builders of the SAME plane would there be...!
Most folks move to something different - usually higher performance or
different mission oriented when they do a second plane.
Next door neighbor scratch built two T-18's, said that the second was about
3/4 the hours of the first. He just finished a scratch built Bearhawk (4000
hrs) said he WASN'T going to do another one of those!!
I've welded up about 2 dozen fuselages for one of the popular ultralights
and there is about a 25% reduction in manhours between the first and the
latest one. I'm a slow learner I guess.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Bob,
Amazing that security would tell anyone to move on during an open house. Why
would they do something like that?
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Those parts look beautiful. What is a CNC machine? If ZAC does
not use a machine of some kind like this CNC machine, what do they use?
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL Do not Archive
\
----- Original Message -----
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Build Time
I forgot to mention that I have never built anything out of metal
before. I cut a piece of tin off the roof of the barn once. I have 92
hrs in the tail section and half of the fuselage. For me, it is the
quality of parts I am receiving that makes my build go quickly. Mine is
truly a match and rivet quality. My rivet lines are laser straight,
rivets are flush and everything is square. No smiles in the skins.
(Knock on wood.) I have only had one piece that did not match up.
Below is a picture of my stabilizer rear attachment. I did not have to
drill one of those holes, nor did I have to fabricate the rear
attachment. All this was done on the machine. You can see the time
savings here alone. My whole plane is like this. I don't think I had
to drill one hole in my firewall either. You can see that the corners
are rounded and all I had to do was clean up a few edges. If ZAC could
put out parts like this, they could hit their mark of 500 hrs. Again, I
am LUCKY in having access to the CNC machine. Having built from these
parts and the rudder from ZAC parts. I could see that someone like
myself, it would take longer than 500 hrs.
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
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t0f/2Q=
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
I was at the factory in Missouri at the end of May. They just started using
a CNC router. It is just for cutting blanks out and drilling some holes.
All the bends and everything else is still done by hand. I was amazed to find
the same forming blocks that I made at home. All those wing ribs and
everything else in your kit is still being hand made. The only difference is
that
the flat blanks are cut out with the CNC router now. One of the guys told me
that up until recently, they were hand cutting out all the parts. I took
some video of these guys working making ribs and various other parts. I do have
to commend the factory as being a first class act. I arrived and took my
demo ride. Roger then let me have the plane and I took pictures of anything I
wanted. They then gave me free range in the factory without an escort. I
enjoyed it a lot. Learned some interesting things and a few tricks while I was
there. I would recommend a visit to anyone interested in ZAC. I have had
nothing but a great experience with the factory in Missouri and thier new shop
in Cloverdale, CA.
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Channel Splice |
Hi Mark,
You and I have the same thoughts... When I first looked at the sketch a
few months back I couldn't tell if it was a plate or channel splice...
I 'figured' it was a channel and made mine as such... Yes, I will add
the cross section to the drawing for you to post on your site, no
problem... I will be leaving tonight on a business trip that will last
until Saturday so it might be first of next week before I can get to
it... It wasn't that I didn't like your pencilmanship, I was just
re-drew for my own benefit, then later decide to share it... We're on
the same team! :-)
Thanks,
Randy Bryant
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Zodie Rocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Hi Randy, I=92m not offended that you don=92t like my pencilmanship
But it was the best I could do and it provides the information needed. I
would like to exchange my pencil drawing for your CAD drawing on
ch601.org but I would also like you to add a cross section to the splice
showing that it is in fact a channel splice and not a plate splice.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:58 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Thanks,
I did that drawing a while back for my own use, as like you said, "the
pencil sketch is good", but I just wanted a more "cleaned up" version...
I've hesitated a while on posting it afraid that someone would be
offended thinking I was trying to improve on the design..etc., but
really, all I did was clean up the pencil sketch... At any rate, if
anyone wants to use my drawing, feel free to do so...
From one TarHeel to another, Thanks!
Randy Bryant
Topton, NC
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Channel Splice
Wow Randy! Thanks for the mucho cool drawings for the rear splice. I
mean, the pencil sketch is good, but your drawing really cleans things
up and make this much more understandable and easier to visualize.
Thanks for the nice work.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC (3 miles from the Wright Brothers first flight)
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
do not archive
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/18/2006
--
7/18/2006
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: A backup pneumatic riveter at a reasonable price |
Robert Stone,
Please don't send pictures of over one meg. Cut them down to 50 to 60
K. We dial up folks have to wait ten minutes or more.
Thanks.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: A backup pneumatic riveter (not so backup) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hey! What are you calling backup? I've used that
same riveter for over three years, filled four
(4)gatorade bottles with rivet stems with unregulated
pressure from my 120 psig air compressor. It's still
working fine. The plastic cup went away long ago.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Working on a masterpiece of a canopy
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--- "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
> To those of you who would like to have a backup
> pneumatic riveter, check the attachment out from a
> page out of the Harbor Freight catalog.
__________________________________________________
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Returned Mail: Re: Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
I went to the web site and saw nothing about attachments.
Visit this URL to register: http://forums.matronics.com//index.php
The attachments were not mine, they were sent with the original
message that I was responding to and allowed on the Matronics Email Lists
forum. Please explaine in detail, what I did wrong.
Bob Stone
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:10 PM
> The following message from "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> was not
> authorized for entry in the Matronics Email Lists forum.
>
> Reason: There were problems with the attachments [Attachment must have a
> filename to be saved to a forum.]
>
>
> Visit this URL to register: http://forums.matronics.com//index.php
>
> From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: 601XL Build Time
> ****************************************
>
> Those parts look beautiful. What is a CNC machine? If ZAC does not
> use a machine of some kind like this CNC machine, what do they use?
>
> Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
> ZodiacXL Do not Archive
> \
>
>
> ---
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | 601 XL Build Time |
Having flown my XL for the first time last Saturday I have to agree with most of
what I'm reading on (building time). I can now say I have twice as much money
and twice as much time in it as I was expecting when first starting. Never
the less I'm very happy and pleased with the results, plus knowing the joy of
being in the air again.
I spent 2.5 years, or 1500 plus hours as a first time builder and right at
60K in the project, yet unpainted. This includes a Jab 3300, and two glass instruments
plus.
There were times I became pretty discouraged, but after a day or two of thought
went right back to working on it.
N 105JT
__________________________________________________
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lynn Dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
Phyrcooler,
I've built the 601xl empennage and wings so far (got a
kit in February), and have found only a couple very minor errors in the
prints that were of little concern. I've found the kit to be very accurately
made, excellent quality. The weakest area is the photo assembly guide, but
it gets the job done. With the kit, you receive a CD with hundreds of pics.
I chose the sections that I needed and Kinko's printed it all out double
sided on punched paper. You can then get index tabs and make your own
ringbound photo assembly manuals. Cost about $50.
Lynn
Corry PA
601XL
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: A backup pneumatic riveter (not so backup) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Just a suggestion.
Bob Stone
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:36 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey! What are you calling backup? I've used that
> same riveter for over three years, filled four
> (4)gatorade bottles with rivet stems with unregulated
> pressure from my 120 psig air compressor. It's still
> working fine. The plastic cup went away long ago.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> Working on a masterpiece of a canopy
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --- "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> To those of you who would like to have a backup
>> pneumatic riveter, check the attachment out from a
>> page out of the Harbor Freight catalog.
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Caps with image and tail number |
I just ordered a couple of caps from Dorothy and she is placing an order
for more caps and wanted to know what colors we (listers) prefer. She
also has an image for 701's. I told her I would post to the list for
color preferences of the caps as she must place a minimum order for 12
caps of a single color. I chose the khaki myself.
Dan Yeast 701
N987PD
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
Like Jay in Dallas, I'm not building best of show, but a solid safe
aircraft. Builders log filled in daily with accurate time spent in the
shop. All essential building time included but reading this list and
browsing supply catalog time not included. Times are from start to
finish on each section.
Started Sept. 2004
Rudder = 17 hours
Stab = 17 hours
Elevator and trim tab = 27 hours
Flaps and ailerons w/electric trim = 21 hours
RH wing = 150 hours (2 leading edge tanks, wing locker, nav lights,
pitot, lift reserve)
LH wing = 83 hours (2 leading edge tanks, wing locker,
landing/taxi/nav lights)
Fuse, gear, canopy, motor mount, 0-200 rebuild = 330 hours
645 hours total to this point
Remaining - cowl fitting and most FWF work, instruments and sensors,
interior finish, mounting wings & tail parts, paint, fitting = another
700 hours!
Airframe construction complete, lacking assembly of flying surfaces to
fuselage. Working on panel layout, instruments in hand. I would have
easily been finished 6 months ago if I would have just done something
every day. But, this IS a hobby, right??
If any of you guys (and gals!) are just aching to pull another rivet or
scuff something up with some Scotchbright (your choice of colors) come
on over! The beer's cold and the chile's hot (your choice of colors)!!
Paul Moore
Silver City, NM
XL - 0200
Do Not Archive
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Caps with image and tail number |
Dan,
Two khaki for me
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
do not archive
In a message dated 7/19/2006 11:10:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dandpy@bellsouth.net writes:
I just ordered a couple of caps from Dorothy and she is placing an order for
more caps and wanted to know what colors we (listers) prefer. She also has
an image for 701's. I told her I would post to the list for color
preferences of the caps as she must place a minimum order for 12 caps of a single
color. I chose the khaki myself.
Dan Yeast 701
N987PD
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Returned Mail: Re: Re: 601XL Build Time |
You did nothing wrong Robert. Keep the pics coming. I can understand the
reasoning behind not sending large files, but yours wasn't even 36K (and it was
actually from an earlier post). You know the saying, "A picture is worth a
thousand words." In the Zenith list, a picture can answer just as many questions.
Sorry dial up guys, but we need content to keep this list interesting, informative,
and time worthy.
"Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"Robert L. Stone"
I went to the web site and saw nothing about attachments.
Visit this URL to register: http://forums.matronics.com//index.php
The attachments were not mine, they were sent with the original
message that I was responding to and allowed on the Matronics Email Lists
forum. Please explaine in detail, what I did wrong.
Bob Stone
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:10 PM
> The following message from "Robert L. Stone" was not
> authorized for entry in the Matronics Email Lists forum.
>
> Reason: There were problems with the attachments [Attachment must have a
> filename to be saved to a forum.]
>
>
> Visit this URL to register: http://forums.matronics.com//index.php
>
> From: "Robert L. Stone"
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: 601XL Build Time
> ****************************************
>
> Those parts look beautiful. What is a CNC machine? If ZAC does not
> use a machine of some kind like this CNC machine, what do they use?
>
> Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
> ZodiacXL Do not Archive
> \
>
>
> ---
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Like I said when you have the airframe completely finished you are anout
half way there...That puts Ed in about the same place as the rest of us.
Frank
HDS 400 hours
RV7a...Fuse now at the airport!
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phyrcooler
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:55 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
Thank you all for your thoughts. It seems like your answers vary quite
a bit - however, with most agreeing that it takes WAAAY longer than what
Zenith advertises. I think that unfamiliarity with the product would
naturally make it go slow. Conversely - a second time builder would
probably cut hundreds of hours off just because he "got it" and knew
what to do when reading the plans... or in spite of the plans. But how
many second time builders of the SAME plane would there be...! Most
folks move to something different - usually higher performance or
different mission oriented when they do a second plane.
I have picked up from a couple of posts that the plans and illustrations
leave much to be desired - which concerns me. Is this feeling
universal?
I am curious however, if Ed Moody could summarize his previous builder
experience, if any. He seems to be on track if he can build both wings
and tail in 250 hours...
For anyone else out there who hasn't posted... any further thoughts on
your build time, or any others with careful builders logs that
calculated time?
Thanks again to all of you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48670#48670
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Time |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Airframe took me about 500 hours.
FWF/Interior/Panel/Wiring too about 200 hours.
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300
--------
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48770#48770
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: test "do knot archive" in PROFILE Question to Matt.... |
Hello Matt
I have a question since some years ago...
Can you delete (or clean) the archives from some mails that beeing "not related"
were released accidentally without the Do not archive note in it?
Just curious... Thanks one more time for this great lists
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Do not archive
Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt
Dralle
At 04:47 AM 7/19/2006 Wednesday, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap"
>
>I set my signature in my PROFILE to ".....Geoff.......do knot archive"
>Lets see if it follows this text. Just in case though DO KNOT ARCHIVE
>Read this topic online here:
Geoff and others,
Please _do not_ do this!
This permanently kills valuable threads of discussion unnecessarily. If someone
responds to your message with some information that should have been in the
archive, then it doesn't make it.
I can't stress enough, _do not_ put the "do knot archive" string in your signature
file.
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
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