Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:32 AM - Re: Recent posting (Kemter)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: Zenith new 701 FWF kit (Tommy Walker)
3. 07:45 AM - Resized Picture (Robert L. Stone)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: What to do about the solid rivets on the 701's elevator trai... (Noel Loveys)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: Resized Picture (Tom and Bren Henderson)
6. 08:47 AM - Re: Resized Picture (Dave)
7. 08:50 AM - Re: Resized Picture (Noel Loveys)
8. 08:59 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Gary Boothe)
9. 09:11 AM - Re: Resized Picture resized again (Noel Loveys)
10. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: 601 Hat with tail number (Southern Reflections)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: Resized Picture (kevinbonds)
12. 09:29 AM - Re: Resized Picture (Randy L. Thwing)
13. 09:31 AM - Re: Zenith new 701 FWF kit (Roland Smith)
14. 09:35 AM - Resized Picture (Randy L. Thwing)
15. 10:12 AM - Big holes (Jaybannist@cs.com)
16. 10:19 AM - Re: Resized Picture resized again (Robert L. Stone)
17. 10:28 AM - CH601HD performance with prop stopped (Bruce Bockius)
18. 10:28 AM - Re: Resized Picture (Robert L. Stone)
19. 10:55 AM - Re: Big holes (Lynn Dingfelder)
20. 11:52 AM - Possible Solution (John Collins)
21. 12:13 PM - Re: Big Holes (T. Graziano)
22. 12:13 PM - Re: Big holes (Robert L. Stone)
23. 12:20 PM - Re: Big holes (Tom and Bren Henderson)
24. 01:56 PM - Painting costs. (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 02:56 PM - Re: Resized Picture resized again (Randy L. Thwing)
26. 03:18 PM - Re: Painting costs. (Steve Hulland)
27. 04:31 PM - Re: Resized Picture (Don Lewis)
28. 05:48 PM - Finished part storage. (Dave Ruddiman)
29. 07:00 PM - Re: Finished part storage. (Jaybannist@cs.com)
30. 07:00 PM - Re: Resized Picture (Noel Loveys)
31. 07:02 PM - Re: Finished part storage. (Randy L. Thwing)
32. 07:12 PM - Re: Resized Picture resized again (Noel Loveys)
33. 07:24 PM - Re: [aviation] Finished part storage. (Bruce Bockius)
34. 07:56 PM - Re: Finished part storage. (Tom and Bren Henderson)
35. 08:18 PM - Re: Finished part storage. (Gary Boothe)
36. 08:43 PM - Re: Finished part storage. (Dave Ruddiman)
37. 08:53 PM - Re: Big holes (raymondj)
38. 08:53 PM - Re: CH601HD performance with prop stopped (raymondj)
39. 09:24 PM - Re: Big holes (Dave Ruddiman)
40. 09:35 PM - Re: Finished part storage. (Randy L. Thwing)
41. 10:08 PM - Re: Finished part storage. (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Recent posting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kemter" <kemter@msn.com>
Those of you who of tired of the huge emails may not know about the BBS Forum Interface
to the Matronics Email Lists. Here's the link: . Scroll down the list
and click on Zenith.
Dial-up users should especially try it. Huge pictures, no problem. You can still
read the messages and not worry about downloading those pesky high resolution
pictures. Please, give it a shot and maybe we can all start getting along
again...
Jim K.
Cibolo, TX
working on the tail feathers of a 701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49402#49402
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith new 701 FWF kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
I stopped by for a visit a couple of weeks ago while traveling along I-70. I talked
with the guy who was working on the new radiator and oil cooler mounts.
He said they were changing to a Ring Mount for the 912ULS at Rotax's suggestion
to lessen vibration. They designed new cowling too. The oil cooler will be
located in front of the passenger seat with a NACA vent providing ventilation.
No mention of fairings, etc...
Thanks,
TommyWalker in Alabama
LouB wrote:
> The Zenith factory site has some pictures and data on a new Rotax 912 FWF kit
for the 701. It looks quite aerodynamic. Anyone now what kind of cruise and
top speed improvements might be expected. Are they going to include fairings
for the wing struts too?
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
--------
Tommy Walker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49403#49403
Message 3
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The software system use to reduce the size of the attached picture
was Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size it has
been reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 4
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| Subject: | What to do about the solid rivets on the 701's elevator |
trai...
Beg, borrow, buy or steal a rivet gun,a flush rivet snap and a
reasonable
dolly. Practice driving a few rivets on scrap plate first. Then go for
it!
It worked for every major manufacturer of aircraft for almost a hundred
years so it'll probably work for you.
Also reference: AC43-13-1B p.p. 4-16, 4-21
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:07 PM
elevator trai...
John, If you are talking about the little 3/32" rivets for the
nutplates,
here is what I did:
Since the rivets are countersunk, I countersunk the holes with a 7/32"
drill
bit (the same one I used to open the screw holes). For construction of
the
tail, wings and fuselage, I have various lengths of 2" x 2" structural
steel
tubes. I placed the rivet head side on top of one of these tubes. I
used a
1/4" x 1" steel bolt as a "rivet smasher." I placed the tip of the bolt
on
the end of the rivet and gave it two or three smart whacks with a hammer
to
the head of the bolt. These are pretty soft rivets so that's all it
takes.
If you are scratch building a spar and talking about those rivets, I
plead
complete ignorance.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Resized Picture |
I can't comment on the dial-up issues, but that's the pefect size if you're
trying to show any amount of detail. Anything less and the details are little
more than grainy pixels. Nice pic!
Do Not Archive
"Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote: The software system use
to reduce the size of the attached picture was Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I
would like to know if the size it has been reduced to is suitable for members
who are using a telphone modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Resized Picture |
I'm sure it's fine. I guess it all comes down to how much of a net
loon's time you can use before he wants to hunt you down and beat you.
Here is a link to a download time calculator it will allow you
calcuklate how long it would take someone to download a file. It's not
the best one but it'll work.
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/dltime.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Stone
To: Zenith List
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Resized Picture
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached
picture was Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size
it has been reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone
modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 7
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I'm on a slooooooow dial-up. There are days that two of the three
baboons
they have typing the code are on strike for more kibble. All that aside
I
find that e-mails under 100kb are not usually a problem.
My advice would be if you want to send more pictures send them in
individual
E-Mails and give them easily recognized unique subject lines. e.g. my
plane
p1, my pane p2. my plane p3, etc. That way if the individuals on the
group
feel the first picture is something they want to see than they can
download
the others at their leisure.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom and
Bren
Henderson
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:27 PM
I can't comment on the dial-up issues, but that's the pefect size if
you're trying to show any amount of detail. Anything less and the
details
are little more than grainy pixels. Nice pic!
Do Not Archive
"Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached picture
was
Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size it has been
reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Inspection plates |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Rich,
I'm no aeronautical engineer (though I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express
last night), but I think you can compute the amount of lift per sq.inch
based on the gross weight and wing area and get an average for any location.
This would tell you about how much force will be pulling on the plates.
Obviously, different parts of the top side of the wing have different values
of lift coefficient.
My gut feeling tells me that anything located on the low pressure side of
the wing would not be a place to put the spring loaded inspection plates
without the addition of screws.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
I just purchased two concave inspection plates from
ASS and they are a perfect fit for the fuel level
sender access I cut on the top of the wing. However,
do they stay on using only the springs or should I
drill a few holes for screws or rivets? They seem
pretty secure as is.
Rich Vetterli
601XL/Corvair
Check it out at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
__________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Resized Picture resized again |
Generally .... most computers are set to a resolution of 800pixels
horizontal by 600 pixels vertical. any picture larger than that may be
a
waste of band width. If you want more resolution then crop in on the
specific area you want to show the fine detail.
I resized your picture to 800X600 pixels (full screen for most
computers)
and used a medium file compression. As you turn down the file size in
jpg
format you will compress the number of colours used to make the picture.
for a lot of pics you can compress a long way before it gets
objectionable.
Of course this is totally subjective.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Stone
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:14 PM
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached picture
was
Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size it has been
reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Hat with tail number |
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Venables
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 2:28 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Hat with tail number
Add me to the 701 hat list?
Roger Venables
N143TZ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
NYTerminat@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:00 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Hat with tail number
Me too.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 7/18/2006 7:55:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
stol10@comcast.net writes:
Please tell your friend that I'd like one for a 701.......Geoff
Please tell your friends I"d like 2for a601XL
Joe Gargner N101HD
Message 11
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For the record. Most of my photos, meant for web consumption, aren't more
than 75k and about 8X10 by 72dpi with a little jpeg compression. I suggest
saving all photos to 72dpi and whatever size you want. 72 dpi is monitor
resolution. Unless someone wants to zoom in, any larger than that can't be
seen on a computer screen.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom and Bren
Henderson
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 9:57 AM
I can't comment on the dial-up issues, but that's the pefect size if
you're trying to show any amount of detail. Anything less and the details
are little more than grainy pixels. Nice pic!
Do Not Archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Resized Picture |
Hello Bob:
That pic is 1600 x 1200 pixels. The largest I send out are 800 x
600. 800 x 600 is a common screen viewing size. This size pic fills a
screen with a full view with no scroll bars. They average around 200 kb
in size and take about 30 to 40 seconds to download with dial-up. I
take my pics in large sizes, I do a "save-as" to make another copy, then
"resize" the copy in 800 x 600 for transmission, by doing the save-as
and making the copy, I still retain the huge original in case someone
wants the "detail". I can send that off list and not bother those
without interest in that subject.
I sell on ebay occasionally, for those sales, I use 300 & 400 pixel
wide photos. They are usualy completely adequate to get most points
across. Oh course, if I get a request for "more detail", I have my
original huge shot to send. I am attaching a 800 x 600 shot of making
ZA channel on the TAPCO brake. It's 106 kb in size. For comparison, I
am also sending the same shot in 300 and 400 pixel widths. I tested
this message to myself before sending, it took my dial-up two minutes to
send out, but when it came back from the server, it took 54 seconds.
Again, 300 to 400 pixel wide photos get most points across, 800 x 600 is
not objectional and fills most screens.
Now, for all those that will immediately email me to say no-one uses
800 x 600 resolution any more, that's partly true, but a lot of , uh,
let's say "veterans", that won't go get new glasses, (you know who you
are), still use that size so they can actually see things on the screen.
Best Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Stone
To: Zenith List
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Resized Picture
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached
picture was Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size
it has been reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone
modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/21/2006
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith new 701 FWF kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roland Smith" <docponds@sover.net>
Anticipating 912ULS purchase for my kit 701 in about 6 months, I look forward to
a rigorous, realistic comparison with in-flight data, if possible, between the
new Zenith and SportShops Firewall Forward Packages. I enjoy opinions, love
facts. And I have had very good experience with both Zenith and SportShops.
Roland Smith
Bennington, Vermont
Wings and Tail
N701V requested
--------
701 kit, anticipating Rotax 912 ULS and amphibious trike floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49427#49427
Message 14
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And now the "idiot" sends the message "with" the pictures, DUH!
Hello Bob:
That pic is 1600 x 1200 pixels. The largest I send out are 800 x
600. 800 x 600 is a common screen viewing size. This size pic fills a
screen with a full view with no scroll bars. They average around 200 kb
in size and take about 30 to 40 seconds to download with dial-up. I
take my pics in large sizes, I do a "save-as" to make another copy, then
"resize" the copy in 800 x 600 for transmission, by doing the save-as
and making the copy, I still retain the huge original in case someone
wants the "detail". I can send that off list and not bother those
without interest in that subject.
I sell on ebay occasionally, for those sales, I use 300 & 400 pixel
wide photos. They are usualy completely adequate to get most points
across. Oh course, if I get a request for "more detail", I have my
original huge shot to send. I am attaching a 800 x 600 shot of making
ZA channel on the TAPCO brake. It's 106 kb in size. For comparison, I
am also sending the same shot in 300 and 400 pixel widths. I tested
this message to myself before sending, it took my dial-up two minutes to
send out, but when it came back from the server, it took 54 seconds.
Again, 300 to 400 pixel wide photos get most points across, 800 x 600 is
not objectional and fills most screens.
Now, for all those that will immediately email me to say no-one uses
800 x 600 resolution any more, that's partly true, but a lot of , uh,
let's say "veterans", that won't go get new glasses, (you know who you
are), still use that size so they can actually see things on the screen.
Best Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Stone
To: Zenith List
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Resized Picture
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached
picture was Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size
it has been reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone
modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 15
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I've got another question for the learned group. How do you get a 1 1/8"
dia. hole in .090 aluminum? This is for the torque tube bearings. ZAC shows a
"flat faced drill bit" but no suggestion as to where one might obtain one of
these. I searched the internet to no avail. I don't think a hole saw would make
a smooth enough hole for a bearing. I would be afraid to use a fly cutter.
Is it possible to get the desired results with a series of step drill bits (in
a drill press)?
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Resized Picture resized again |
MessageNoel,
I am 77 years old and have only had a computer for about 2 years.
Needless to say, I have had a lot of trouble learning to use it and it's
down right heart breaking to see 10 year old kids that are more
proficient than myself. The only redeeming factor is that I knew how to
type since high school days way back in the 40's
Just to show you how dumb I am, I could understand most of your
reply and the rest might as well have been Chinese. I can speak English
or course and I am almost fluent in German, now I must learn computer.
The best of luck with whatever you ae building.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Resized Picture resized again
Generally .... most computers are set to a resolution of 800pixels
horizontal by 600 pixels vertical. any picture larger than that may be
a waste of band width. If you want more resolution then crop in on the
specific area you want to show the fine detail.
I resized your picture to 800X600 pixels (full screen for most
computers) and used a medium file compression. As you turn down the
file size in jpg format you will compress the number of colours used to
make the picture. for a lot of pics you can compress a long way before
it gets objectionable. Of course this is totally subjective.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Stone
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:14 PM
To: Zenith List
Subject: Zenith-List: Resized Picture
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached
picture was Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size
it has been reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone
modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 17
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| Subject: | CH601HD performance with prop stopped |
Airplane: N269BB
CH601HD, Stratus EA-81 engine, 664 lb empty weight, Warp drive 70"
tapered
3-blade prop, Taildragger w/factory wheel pants
Test conditions: OAT 69F, calm surface winds, apparently calm winds at
altitude, approx 205lbs of fuel/pilot/junk on board.
Test: Climbed to 10000MSL, pulled throttle to idle (1100 engine RPM,
~500
prop RPM). Established 50KIAS on a constant heading. Descended 1000 ft
with prop idling, monitoring glide ratio as displayed on a GPS receiver.
Stopped engine (prop stops) and descended another 1000ft. Restarted
engine
at idle and descended another 1000ft. Climbed back up to 10000MSL and
repeated this test on a reciprocal heading.
Results: Glide ratio varied from 9.0 to 8.0. The higher was observed at
higher altitudes, as would be expected. Glide ratio fluctuated +/- 0.3
throughout the test, probably due to my failure to completely control
air
speed and the vagueness of GPS calculated (non-WAAS) altitude.
Any difference in glide ratio with the prop idling versus the prop
stopped
was below the noise error of my readings (<0.3).
Conclusion: At the slow speeds likely to be encountered during an engine
out
scenario in a CH600/700 series a stopped prop does not produce
significant
drag.
See http://www.whiteantelopesoftware.com/zodiac/perform.htm for other
performance figures/details on this plane.
-Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/496 hrs
Bruce Bockius
Black Forest, Colorado, USA
bruceb@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com
http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac/
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Resized Picture |
Tom & Bren,
Thanks for the response, it was just what I was looking for. Just
a little human interest item, the paint job on that aircraft cost the
owner a little over $8,000.00. I am going to paint mine red/white my
self for the cost of the paint, primer, sandpaper and a lot of work and
praying since I am not a professional painter. I think I can do it with
the best stuf money can buy for about $500.00 just for the materials.
Good luck with whatever you are building.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom and Bren Henderson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Resized Picture
I can't comment on the dial-up issues, but that's the pefect size
if you're trying to show any amount of detail. Anything less and the
details are little more than grainy pixels. Nice pic!
Do Not Archive
"Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached
picture was Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size
it has been reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone
modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 19
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Jay,
My standard method is to drill undersize (1" in this case),
and open bigger with a sanding drum in a drill. I first mark the desired
perimeter and work out to the line. A hole saw can be used this way, but
otherwise is not precision enough.
Lynn
Corry PA
601XL tails &
wings done
Message 20
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| Subject: | Possible Solution |
I have been following the list for quite a while now, first in "real-time" mode
and then in digest form. As I am away from the computer for significant periods
of time, my mailbox filled up from the real-time messages, so I shifted to
digest format, thereby missing out on the pictures. Also, my net access varies
from dialup to broadband, depending on where we are at the time.
After following the flame war about file size, I sent a message to Matt asking
if there was any objection to my setting up another e-mail account and subscribing
to the list in real-time on that account. This will allow me to read the
digests on my normal account and go to the second account if I want to see a
specific attachment. If there is nothing I want to download, I can just blow
the real-times away in a batch.
Matt said there would be no problem, so I have done so.
Just a suggestion -- technology sometimes needs a firm hand on the reins!
John Collins
San Diego and Panama
---------------------------------
Message 21
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I used the Uni-Bits (great tools) for holes in sheet metal from
about 5/16 inch (8mm) up to I believe 1-1/4 inch dia.(30.5mm). Any
good hardware store has them.
Tony Graziano
601XL N493TG; 118 hrs and just finished first Annual Conditional
Inspection
Big holes
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
Date: Sun Jul 23 - 10:12 AM
I've got another question for the learned group. How do you get a 1
1/8"
dia. hole in .090 aluminum? This is for the torque tube bearings. ZAC
shows a
"flat faced drill bit" but no suggestion as to where one might obtain
one of
these. I searched the internet to no avail. I don't think a hole saw
would make
a smooth enough hole for a bearing. I would be afraid to use a fly
cutter.
Is it possible to get the desired results with a series of step drill
bits (in
a drill press)?
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 22
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Jay,
I had the same problem and did it with a fly cutter but not with
the regular tool steel cutter. I took an old file and ground it to look
like a knife blade on one end the other end to fit into the cutter slot
on the fly cutter. Draw it down on the .090 sharp end first and apply
pressure very slowly. This will make the most clean cut you ever saw.
When you think you have the cutter adjusted to end up with a hole 1 &
1/8th, check by drawing the blade down on a piece of wood and check the
diameter. Aluminum is soft and much easier to work than any other metal
I know of unless it has been alloyed with harder metals
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Big holes
I've got another question for the learned group. How do you get a 1
1/8" dia. hole in .090 aluminum? This is for the torque tube bearings.
ZAC shows a "flat faced drill bit" but no suggestion as to where one
might obtain one of these. I searched the internet to no avail. I don't
think a hole saw would make a smooth enough hole for a bearing. I would
be afraid to use a fly cutter. Is it possible to get the desired
results with a series of step drill bits (in a drill press)?
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 23
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If you find that you still have problems making a clean hole, I have several
extra Torque Tube Bearings for the XL. I'd send you one if you wanted to pay
shipping. The 1.125 DIA hole on these was punched with a single punch of the
correct size, so they look great. Let me know off-list if you're interested.
Do Not Archive
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: I've got another question for the learned group. How
do you get a 1 1/8" dia. hole in .090 aluminum? This is for the torque tube bearings.
ZAC shows a "flat faced drill bit" but no suggestion as to where one
might obtain one of these. I searched the internet to no avail. I don't think
a hole saw would make a smooth enough hole for a bearing. I would be afraid
to use a fly cutter. Is it possible to get the desired results with a series
of step drill bits (in a drill press)?
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 24
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Hi Bob,
Please don't leave out the safety equipment you need to do the
painting. You will need some sort of breathing gear and gloves along
with the spraying equipment. There are many choices of breathing
gear, but you should at least use a high quality face mask which will
cost almost as much as the paint.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:08 AM 7/23/2006, you wrote:
>Tom & Bren,
> Thanks for the response, it was just what I was looking
> for. Just a little human interest item, the paint job on that
> aircraft cost the owner a little over $8,000.00. I am going to
> paint mine red/white my self for the cost of the paint, primer,
> sandpaper and a lot of work and praying since I am not a
> professional painter. I think I can do it with the best stuf money
> can buy for about $500.00 just for the materials. Good luck with
> whatever you are building.
>
>Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
>Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Resized Picture resized again |
MessageHello Bob:
All your questions can be aswered from experienced people on this
list. My suggestion is to ask just one thing at a time. We'll take it
easy with you. I am going to make the claim that I taught the World's
oldest CAD (computer aided design) user. Bill Harrold, retired highest
level Lockheed Aeronautical engineer. He worked at their spy satellite
plant in San Jose. At 84 or 85 I set up a computor and started teaching
him CAD drawing in his hanger. He became a 2D expert. Bill redesigned
the wing of the Wag-Aero Pacer one of our guys is building. One feature
is that the ribs were constructed from square aluminum tubing. The
needed tubing wasn't available, so Bill designed, and I built, a bench
top rolling mill. Round tubing goes in one end and squared tubing with
rounded corners comes out the other. Attached is a pic of Bill with the
rolling mill and another pic of it close up. We lost Bill 18 months, I
sure miss him. He was proof a guy his age could still learn the new
tricks. Ask away Bob!
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Resized Picture resized again
Noel,
I am 77 years old and have only had a computer for about 2 years.
Needless to say, I have had a lot of trouble learning to use it and
it's down right heart breaking to see 10 year old kids that are more
proficient than myself. The only redeeming factor is that I knew how to
type since high school days way back in the 40's
Just to show you how dumb I am, I could understand most of your
reply and the rest might as well have been Chinese. I can speak English
or course and I am almost fluent in German, now I must learn computer.
The best of luck with whatever you ae building.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Painting costs. |
Bob,
Paul is correct, good breathing equipment is a must. I use an older (10
years) refurbished Scott Fire Fighter SCBA. Gives me 30-40 minutes of
self-contained breathing air. Each year I have the mask fit tested and the
SCBA itself checked for proper regulator, mouthpiece and harness operation.
Since I work as a firefighter (both volunteer and career) it is easy to fill
the air bottle. It is a com posit bottle so the SCBA is not very heavy and
it is easy to work with it on. I clean it up right after use in order to
prevent over-spray buildup on the SCBA and facepiece. Point is, a good
breathing apparatus is a must if you are to protect your lungs. They are the
most delicate cells in your body and are exposed to outside intrusion of
"stuff" from birth to death. You can buy a good overhauled used SCBA from
Dalmatian Fire on line. About $250 for the unit and then you gotta find a
good bottle. Good steel ones are cheap and can be hydro statically tested
cheaply every five years, but are very heavy. Anyway, good luck with your
paint adventure.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Resized Picture |
Bob,
You can build your own fresh air supply; see:
http://www.geocities.com/snjdrvr/air_supply.html
At the very least, get the best mask you can... Check with an
auto paint store and tell them you need a unit for 2 part paint...
I know of three people who have damaged their lungs by not doing
so.........
Do Not Archive
Don Lewis
http://don-lewis.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Resized Picture
<snip>
I am going to paint mine red/white my self for the cost of the
paint, primer, sandpaper and a lot of work and praying since I am not a
professional painter. I think I can do it with the best stuf money can
buy for about $500.00 just for the materials. Good luck with whatever
you are building.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 28
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| Subject: | Finished part storage. |
Listers,
I am trying to figure out a simple way to store finished components in
a relatively small space. My shop is about 25 x 26 feet. I have windows
on 2 sides and an overhead door on 1 side. The other wall is already
full. What are you guys doing to store flaps, slats, elevator etc. I
don't want to take anything to the hangar until I paint. Trying to find
a good way to store overhead or? Any ideas?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Finished part storage. |
Dave, I built a storage cart to store my wings (with ailerons), horizontal
stab/elevator, and flaps. It is covered with a tarp and I keep it outdoors.
Contact me off line if you are interested and I will send you a drawing of what
I built.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 30
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True there are more high res screens coming into use but most of the
people
who use them are heavy into graphics any how and will be able to change
their resolution at the drop of a hat.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy L.
Thwing
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 2:02 PM
And now the "idiot" sends the message "with" the pictures, DUH!
Hello Bob:
That pic is 1600 x 1200 pixels. The largest I send out are 800 x
600.
800 x 600 is a common screen viewing size. This size pic fills a screen
with a full view with no scroll bars. They average around 200 kb in
size
and take about 30 to 40 seconds to download with dial-up. I take my
pics in
large sizes, I do a "save-as" to make another copy, then "resize" the
copy
in 800 x 600 for transmission, by doing the save-as and making the copy,
I
still retain the huge original in case someone wants the "detail". I
can
send that off list and not bother those without interest in that
subject.
I sell on ebay occasionally, for those sales, I use 300 & 400 pixel
wide
photos. They are usualy completely adequate to get most points across.
Oh
course, if I get a request for "more detail", I have my original huge
shot
to send. I am attaching a 800 x 600 shot of making ZA channel on the
TAPCO
brake. It's 106 kb in size. For comparison, I am also sending the same
shot in 300 and 400 pixel widths. I tested this message to myself
before
sending, it took my dial-up two minutes to send out, but when it came
back
from the server, it took 54 seconds. Again, 300 to 400 pixel wide
photos
get most points across, 800 x 600 is not objectional and fills most
screens.
Now, for all those that will immediately email me to say no-one uses
800
x 600 resolution any more, that's partly true, but a lot of , uh, let's
say
"veterans", that won't go get new glasses, (you know who you are), still
use
that size so they can actually see things on the screen.
Best Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 7:44 AM
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached picture
was
Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size it has been
reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Finished part storage. |
Hello Dave:
The dining room is the best place to store airplane parts. In the
attached pic you can see ZA parts and metal in the background, newly
upholsterd Bonanza seats on the floor to the right, and a Bonanza
ruddervator on the dining room table.
Again the dining room is the safest place for the parts, not
necessarily the safest place for the builder.
Special note: My wife just moved the rolled metal into the dining
room out of the garage so she could pull her car into the garage!
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV do not archive
Subject: Zenith-List: Finished part storage.
Listers,
I am trying to figure out a simple way to store finished components
in a relatively small space. My shop is about 25 x 26 feet. I have
windows on 2 sides and an overhead door on 1 side. The other wall is
already full. What are you guys doing to store flaps, slats, elevator
etc. I don't want to take anything to the hangar until I paint. Trying
to find a good way to store overhead or? Any ideas?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 32
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| Subject: | Resized Picture resized again |
Bob:
My congratulations to you. my mother started taking lessons on the
computer
at age 74 so I have some idea of what you are up against.
You have reached an age where you don't need to worry about the hows or
the
whys as long as you can benefit some entertainment from it.
A couple of years ago I went back to technical school. I was amazed at
how
many things I could do that classmates who were thirty years younger
than me
could not do. So much for the idea of getting a teenager to program
your
VCR /;^)
Keep on trying anything else new that comes along.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Stone
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 2:47 PM
Noel,
I am 77 years old and have only had a computer for about 2 years.
Needless to say, I have had a lot of trouble learning to use it and it's
down right heart breaking to see 10 year old kids that are more
proficient
than myself. The only redeeming factor is that I knew how to type since
high school days way back in the 40's
Just to show you how dumb I am, I could understand most of your
reply
and the rest might as well have been Chinese. I can speak English or
course
and I am almost fluent in German, now I must learn computer. The best
of
luck with whatever you ae building.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 11:05 AM
Generally .... most computers are set to a resolution of 800pixels
horizontal by 600 pixels vertical. any picture larger than that may be
a
waste of band width. If you want more resolution then crop in on the
specific area you want to show the fine detail.
I resized your picture to 800X600 pixels (full screen for most
computers)
and used a medium file compression. As you turn down the file size in
jpg
format you will compress the number of colours used to make the picture.
for a lot of pics you can compress a long way before it gets
objectionable.
Of course this is totally subjective.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Stone
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:14 PM
The software system use to reduce the size of the attached picture
was
Microsoft Digital Pro 9. I would like to know if the size it has been
reduced to is suitable for members who are using a telphone modum.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Finished part storage. |
I hung a 4x8 sheet of plywood suspended about 8" below the ceiling of my
garage (about 1" above where the garage door "rolls up") to store large
sheets of metal and parts on. Not convenient to get to, but good for
long-term storage. Oh, yeah, and my wife's walk-in closet in our
bedroom
became an airplane parts storage area.
-Bruce
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Ruddiman
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 6:41 PM
Listers,
I am trying to figure out a simple way to store finished components in
a
relatively small space. My shop is about 25 x 26 feet. I have windows
on 2
sides and an overhead door on 1 side. The other wall is already full.
What
are you guys doing to store flaps, slats, elevator etc. I don't want to
take
anything to the hangar until I paint. Trying to find a good way to store
overhead or? Any ideas?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Finished part storage. |
If you're like most of us, you've got 4' X 12' worth of un-used storage space
beneath your assembly table. I've found it a great space to store the entire
tail assembly, as well as the larger skins and longerons. I added three levels
(1'-6" tall each) of shelves to contain it all. I imagine it probably cost
less than $40 for the material.
Do Not Archive
Dave Ruddiman <pacificpainting@comcast.net> wrote: Listers,
I am trying to figure out a simple way to store finished components in a relatively
small space. My shop is about 25 x 26 feet. I have windows on 2 sides
and an overhead door on 1 side. The other wall is already full. What are you
guys doing to store flaps, slats, elevator etc. I don't want to take anything
to the hangar until I paint. Trying to find a good way to store overhead
or? Any ideas?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 35
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| Subject: | Finished part storage. |
All my parts are stored in the ceiling area of the garage. I built a cradle
for each wing that swivels down for easy loading, then pulled back up with
rope and small pulley. Both wings fit under the roll up garage door.
.but the dining room!! Now there's an idea!! Oh, wait, I'm married and
intend to stay that way.oh, well..
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Hello Dave:
The dining room is the best place to store airplane parts...
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV do not archive
Listers,
I am trying to figure out a simple way to store finished components in a
relatively small space. My shop is about 25 x 26 feet. I have windows on 2
sides and an overhead door on 1 side. The other wall is already full. What
are you guys doing to store flaps, slats, elevator etc. I don't want to take
anything to the hangar until I paint. Trying to find a good way to store
overhead or? Any ideas?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Finished part storage. |
Hi Everyone,
I've been reading the responses about storage. All seem like good
ideas. I like the dining room storage. I have one of those living rooms
that has to look nice for company, but no one comes over, and I can't
sit in it, that would work perfect. But since my project can be a sore
subject, I guess I better stay out of the house with it. Where did you
guys get the understanding wives? Mine was that way about 20 yrs ago. I
wonder what happened?
Dave in Salem
801
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Finished part storage.
All my parts are stored in the ceiling area of the garage. I built a
cradle for each wing that swivels down for easy loading, then pulled
back up with rope and small pulley. Both wings fit under the roll up
garage door.
.but the dining room!! Now there's an idea!! Oh, wait, I'm married and
intend to stay that way.oh, well..
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Hello Dave:
The dining room is the best place to store airplane parts...
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV do not archive
Subject: Zenith-List: Finished part storage.
Listers,
I am trying to figure out a simple way to store finished components
in a relatively small space. My shop is about 25 x 26 feet. I have
windows on 2 sides and an overhead door on 1 side. The other wall is
already full. What are you guys doing to store flaps, slats, elevator
etc. I don't want to take anything to the hangar until I paint. Trying
to find a good way to store overhead or? Any ideas?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 37
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|
You might try a Forsner bit. Used in woodworking.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
Corvair core acquired.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:11 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Big holes
I've got another question for the learned group. How do you get a 1 1/8"
dia. hole in .090 aluminum? This is for the torque tube bearings. ZAC
shows a "flat faced drill bit" but no suggestion as to where one might
obtain one of these. I searched the internet to no avail. I don't think a
hole saw would make a smooth enough hole for a bearing. I would be afraid
to use a fly cutter. Is it possible to get the desired results with a
series of step drill bits (in a drill press)?
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | CH601HD performance with prop stopped |
Thanks for some EXPERIMENTAL DATA !!!!! Nice web site.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
Corvair core acquired
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Bockius
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:09 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: CH601HD performance with prop stopped
Airplane: N269BB
CH601HD, Stratus EA-81 engine, 664 lb empty weight, Warp drive 70" tapered
3-blade prop, Taildragger w/factory wheel pants
Test conditions: OAT 69F, calm surface winds, apparently calm winds at
altitude, approx 205lbs of fuel/pilot/junk on board.
Test: Climbed to 10000MSL, pulled throttle to idle (1100 engine RPM, ~500
prop RPM). Established 50KIAS on a constant heading. Descended 1000 ft
with prop idling, monitoring glide ratio as displayed on a GPS receiver.
Stopped engine (prop stops) and descended another 1000ft. Restarted engine
at idle and descended another 1000ft. Climbed back up to 10000MSL and
repeated this test on a reciprocal heading.
Results: Glide ratio varied from 9.0 to 8.0. The higher was observed at
higher altitudes, as would be expected. Glide ratio fluctuated +/- 0.3
throughout the test, probably due to my failure to completely control air
speed and the vagueness of GPS calculated (non-WAAS) altitude.
Any difference in glide ratio with the prop idling versus the prop stopped
was below the noise error of my readings (<0.3).
Conclusion: At the slow speeds likely to be encountered during an engine
out scenario in a CH600/700 series a stopped prop does not produce
significant drag.
See http://www.whiteantelopesoftware.com/zodiac/perform.htm for other
performance figures/details on this plane.
-Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/496 hrs
Bruce Bockius
Black Forest, Colorado, USA
bruceb@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com
http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac/
Message 39
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Jay,
I have a set of Rotabroach sheet metal cutters. They are expensive but
they work very well. They actually cut holes, not saw or drill them.
Look up Rotabroach on your browser. I looked them up. They do come in
the size you want, but I don't know how much they are.
Dave in Salem
801
----- Original Message -----
From: raymondj
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Big holes
You might try a Forsner bit. Used in woodworking.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
Corvair core acquired.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:11 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Big holes
I've got another question for the learned group. How do you get a 1
1/8" dia. hole in .090 aluminum? This is for the torque tube bearings.
ZAC shows a "flat faced drill bit" but no suggestion as to where one
might obtain one of these. I searched the internet to no avail. I don't
think a hole saw would make a smooth enough hole for a bearing. I would
be afraid to use a fly cutter. Is it possible to get the desired
results with a series of step drill bits (in a drill press)?
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Finished part storage. |
The bigger questions is: Where did you guys get the NON-understanding
wives? Remember the "Lay down the Law" post?
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, Do not archive
Where did you guys get the understanding wives?
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Finished part storage. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
I built my 601XL in a 10'x20' tent and had room for storage.
Here's a pointer to a picture:
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/in_tent2_small.jpg
The elevator is behind the closest wing.
I wish I had a 25'x26' workshop - it's relatively big!
My wife let me put the tent in our yard, the tent just fit.
see: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/in_yard1_small.jpg
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XL 369 hours
(couldn't help responding - do not archive!)
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006, Dave Ruddiman wrote:
> Listers,
>
> I am trying to figure out a simple way to store finished components in
> a relatively small space. My shop is about 25 x 26 feet. I have windows
> on 2 sides and an overhead door on 1 side. The other wall is already
> full. What are you guys doing to store flaps, slats, elevator etc. I
> don't want to take anything to the hangar until I paint. Trying to find
> a good way to store overhead or? Any ideas?
> Dave in Salem
> 801
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