Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:39 AM - Re: Firewall rivets (Noel Loveys)
2. 07:55 AM - Re: Ch 620 (Jeff)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: Garanger (Bill Naumuk)
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Firewall rivets (LarryMcFarland)
5. 09:03 AM - gravity actuated stomp press (Carlos Sa)
6. 10:31 AM - Gloves for Chemical Protection (Dave VanLanen)
7. 10:39 AM - Re: Garanger (ron wehba)
8. 12:04 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 12:33 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (LarryMcFarland)
10. 01:17 PM - EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most of us) (Jeff)
11. 01:30 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (raymondj)
12. 02:19 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (Randy Bryant)
13. 02:29 PM - Re: EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most of us) (Randy Stout)
14. 03:57 PM - Re: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP (Geoff Heap)
15. 04:21 PM - Engine for 601XL ()
16. 05:26 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (Edward Moody II)
17. 05:38 PM - Re: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP (John Marzulli)
18. 05:41 PM - Special tool (Robert L. Stone)
19. 06:13 PM - Re: Special tool (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 06:33 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
21. 06:40 PM - Re: Special tool (Dave)
22. 06:58 PM - Re: Special tool (Zodie Rocket)
23. 07:11 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (T. Graziano)
24. 07:45 PM - Jabiru 5100 (Dave Ruddiman)
25. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (Randy Bryant)
26. 08:05 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (Robert L. Stone)
27. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (Randy Stout)
28. 08:34 PM - Re: Jabiru 5100 (n801bh@netzero.com)
29. 08:46 PM - Re: Special tool (Craig Payne)
30. 09:09 PM - Re: Jabiru 5100 (Dave Ruddiman)
31. 09:14 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (kevinbonds)
32. 09:32 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (LHusky@aol.com)
33. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (Randy Stout)
34. 10:21 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (TxDave)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Isn't it true that the stainless steel will corrode at a slower rate than
aluminium it is in contact with? That would make SS rivets more appealing
to me...remember we are only discussing a hand full of rivets in a key
location not the whole structure.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> LarryMcFarland
> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 10:13 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall rivets
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Dave,
> I used aluminum rivets in a stainless firewall with aluminum skin and
> longerons because it's sound. The temps that would melt the rivets
> would otherwise melt
> the airframe as quickly. The surfaces were zinc chromated, but if I
> were to put corroding parts together, I'd rather not see it on the
> outside of my skins.
> With a header tank, its likely the heat would be greater
> inside anyway,
> eh? Strength wise, the aluminum rivets have done the job well for my
> 601. :-)
>
> Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> zman601xl@verizon.net wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: <zman601xl@verizon.net>
> >
> >
> >I believe the accepted procedure is to prime the contacting
> surfaces, particularly with dissimilar metals (which includes
> different alloys of the same basic metal). If that is an
> accepted practice as is dipping rivets in Zinc Oxide or Zinc
> Cromate primer at the time of insertion, then I'd guess the
> issue was adequately covered. Anyone have other or additional
> ideas or hints? Ed Moody IIRayne, LA601XL / 2nd wing The
> firewall is steel...either galvanized or stainless. But the
> "L" braces and the channels are aluminum. Aren't those
> dissimilar metals? What's the difference between aluminum
> rivets in stainless steel...and stainless rivets in
> aluminum? Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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While there was no announcement at Oshkosh as I had hoped, I did heard
totally unsubstantiated rumours that the 750 and maybe a new version of the
620 would be announced at Sun-N-Fun. So the rumour was that the 620 is not
dead. Just a rumour from another builder at the Zenair dinner.
Jeff Davidson
Do not archive
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Crvsecretary@aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 5:59 PM
Hello Tom:
I remember reading a magazing interview with CH where he said (paraphrasing
here....)... the lack of a lightweight aero-powerplant that would accept a
full-feathering prop put the Gemini as a very low priority. The prototype
has an engine-out climb rate that was almost non-existant. The drag of the
stopped prop was just too much to overcome.
Please don't ask me to reference the article - it has been lost to the dross
within my own overburdened grey matter......
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
working on wings
do not archive
In a message dated 7/28/2006 4:27:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
admin@arachnidrobotics.com writes:
This may be a bit early, seeing as how I'm not yet done with my 601XL,
but has anyone heard any further info on the Gemini 620? I understand that
it's been put on the back burner, but is it still simmering or has it died?
Message 3
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Sheesh, $40K! All I can say guys, is if you know you're going to
have to build a bigger shop to complete your project, start stashing
necessary supplies away when they come on a loss leader sale. Metals
(Wiring) and plastics (Vinyl siding) are the worst.
12/2 romex was $39.26/100' when I started the garanger 4 months ago,
and it's as high as $128/100' now. I got my siding for $50/sq, it's
running as high as $68/sq now. Thankfully, a contractor friend let me
use his account number when I had to get the 10/2 I used to run from the
main box or I would have had to take out a bank loan!
I got out for $11K, 4 months sweat equity, and a LOT of shopping.
Check out the little guys- they might have stock they haven't updated
the prices on yet.
Good building, be it residential or Zenith.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
40%HDS
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Garanger
Simple shop or garage with some up-grades, over $100 per sq.ft.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Do Not Archive
All-
The garanger's done.
. It cost .probably 25-30K in our area. God knows what it would be
on the West Coast. .
Bill Naumuk
40%HDS
Townville, Pa
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Noel,
I think you can go either way without much worry. The concern is mostly
if you need to leave the surface unpainted (appearance)
or whether you intend to finish off the aircraft. If you corrosion
proof, there isn't much of either material decision that can go wrong.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Noel Loveys wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
>Isn't it true that the stainless steel will corrode at a slower rate than
>aluminium it is in contact with? That would make SS rivets more appealing
>to me...remember we are only discussing a hand full of rivets in a key
>location not the whole structure.
>
>Noel
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | gravity actuated stomp press |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Ron, how did you achieve the 1/8" radius when you bent the flap skin?
I have to make new skins for my ailerons, and advanced technology like "gravity
press" interests
me...
Carlos
CH601-HD, from plans
Montreal, Canada
do not archive
--- Ron Lendon <rlendon@comcast.net> a crit :
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
> ...
> You might wanna take a look at how I solved bending the flaps. The final 163
degree bend was
> done with the 200lb gravity actuated stomp press [Laughing]
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
__________________________________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Gloves for Chemical Protection |
I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for protecting
my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I discovered
yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these chemicals, because I
was using them with acetone to clean off some parts, and I had a small cut
on my finger. I felt the sting of the chemical in the cut, and realized
that it was getting past the gloves. I like these thin, latex-like gloves
as they are easy to work with. What type of gloves should I be using to
insure protection?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
601XL - stabilizer
Message 7
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40k wow!!!,
I just built a 24 x 24 with a 4" slab w/ 12" x 24" footing using 2x6
11ga. rect. tubing for all the strutural and 4" c- purlin white r-panal
one 7 x 9 roll-up door and one 3' walk door, sidewalls 9' tall roof on a
1/12 pitch. built 3 trusses stood up on 12' center, purlin on 4' centers
all labor mine and wifes one helper on concrete.
slab
concrete 1250, plus 200 trip charge and fuel surcharge.
rebar 125
power trowl rental 50
building
all structural steel, sheet and trim 3400
doors 650
wiring don't know yet
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Garanger
Sheesh, $40K! All I can say guys, is if you know you're going to
have to build a bigger shop to complete your project, start stashing
necessary supplies away when they come on a loss leader sale. Metals
(Wiring) and plastics (Vinyl siding) are the worst.
12/2 romex was $39.26/100' when I started the garanger 4 months
ago, and it's as high as $128/100' now. I got my siding for $50/sq, it's
running as high as $68/sq now. Thankfully, a contractor friend let me
use his account number when I had to get the 10/2 I used to run from the
main box or I would have had to take out a bank loan!
I got out for $11K, 4 months sweat equity, and a LOT of shopping.
Check out the little guys- they might have stock they haven't updated
the prices on yet.
Good building, be it residential or Zenith.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
40%HDS
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Garanger
Simple shop or garage with some up-grades, over $100 per sq.ft.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Do Not Archive
All-
The garanger's done.
. It cost .probably 25-30K in our area. God knows what it would
be on the West Coast. .
Bill Naumuk
40%HDS
Townville, Pa
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection |
Hi Dave,
I like the latex examination gloves for general light duty work. For
heavier work, kitchen style rubber gloves work well. For really
heavy duty and really rotten chemical work, Neoprene gloves work best.
If you want a general purpose use glove, I would recommend kitchen
style rubber gloves.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 10:27 AM 7/30/2006, you wrote:
>I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for
>protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and
>acetone. However I discovered yesterday that these gloves are not
>impervious to these chemicals, because I was using them with acetone
>to clean off some parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt
>the sting of the chemical in the cut, and realized that it was
>getting past the gloves. I like these thin, latex-like gloves as
>they are easy to work with. What type of gloves should I be using
>to insure protection?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dave Van Lanen
>
>601XL - stabilizer
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Dave,
I found Acetone is good for working in fiberglass resins etc, but prefer
to use MEK for cleaning small parts as it too is a solvent.
I've bought thick "solvent gloves" and they didn't do the job either. I
just try to minimize my contact with the stuff. Use a brush
and or scotchbrite pads to apply them. Don't forget the respirator mask
as you can do more harm than absorbing the stuff.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Dave VanLanen wrote:
> I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painters gloves for
> protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I
> discovered yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these
> chemicals, because I was using them with acetone to clean off some
> parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt the sting of the
> chemical in the cut, and realized that it was getting past the gloves.
> I like these thin, latex-like gloves as they are easy to work with.
> What type of gloves should I be using to insure protection?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Van Lanen
>
> 601XL - stabilizer
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most |
of us)
For those that didn't go, here is a summary of the fly-in. As
usual, there were not a lot of Zenith aircraft to be found, but this year
there was a great selection of Zenith craft on the field. For example:
N645AB a 601HDS was a really nicely done craft. What I noticed
was that the edges of the fuel caps on the wing tanks were beveled and
polished to address the height of the caps above the skin. A really neat
solution to control locks: A piece of aluminum shaped like the control
systems tangs had short rods through each end. The two ends of the rods had
plastic tubing over them to protect the finish. The locks then just slid
into place between the elevator and the fiberglass edge of the horizontal
stabilizer. And similarly for the ailerons. It had a Jabiru, a sunscreen
on the canopy top, a simple canopy lock using a second piece of extruded
below the canopy handle with a small simple key lock holding the canopy
down, and a great paint job.
OLD CROW was a 601 HD that Chris would love. Still bare metal
with what looked like a home brew FWF for its O-235?, it looked like it was
meeting Chris' mission of providing lots of flying fun since the late 90s
while not breaking the bank. It was the "prototype" 601 pretty much
"stock". It was there early in the show.
N85132 was a 601 HD with nice paint and a Rotax 912 ULS.
N701SR was a Past Champion 701 on floats with an O-200 and eye
catching graphics on both side. I noticed solid rivets in the area of the
graphics so that there was a flat surface to paint on. It was truly an
outstanding machine as others commented.
N61BM was a 601XL with a Subaru EA-81. It was bare, but
polished! The interior was under cover. A nice airplane that Chris would
like.
N701TD was a 701 named Boop-Boop A-Doop with a great military
paint job. It had a wooden floor and attractive interior.
N801LL was an 801. Painted red and yellow, it was hard to miss
even though it was tucked away in the far homebuilt area. It looked like
some trim tab experimenting was going on the aileron. An external power
connection was an unusual feature. I met the owner Larry in the food line
at the Zenith Dinner. He was an interesting and popular person to talk to.
Sorry guys, but the only 640 I saw was at the Zenair booth.
For me this was a shopping trip. I just closed my eyes and went
for the Dynon EFIS and EMS with some options and the Garmin Sport pack (396,
SL40, and 327 transponder) minus the 396 which I already have. Will be
putting my panel together real soon! When I started I was told the plane
would cost about one third for the airframe, one third for the FWF, and one
third for the panel. I'm a little top heavy on the FWF with the 3300, but
that is about how it will work out. So for about 36K I will have become
somewhat educated in aircraft construction, filled in my spare time over the
past decade, and got a new plane to boot!
There was a lot of talk about the 51% rule in multiple forums.
The common point was the 51% rule pertains to the airframe, not to the
entire aircraft. An auxiliary point was that there is still a lot to do
after the airframe is complete: FWF, electrical, paint, interior, panel,
etc.
The Zenith dinner was a little different this year without Chris
there. He is in France building a house. Partially retired, he is still
designing and responding to builder requests to modify the design. Can-Zac
admirably filled the host role. William Wynne of Corvair fame was there and
talked about working with the Heintz family. The effort to provide an FWF
for the 801 in Venezuela is well on its way to completion. George presented
slides of his junior high school classes building 701s letting just a little
politics creep into the discussion concerning the impact of the "Leave no
child behind" program. And Michael Heintz talked about his new venture out
west. Jon Croke was there and took videos of willing builders so that we
can connect faces and names. I got to talk to several builders, including
one about the complete an 801 with the 8 cylinder Jabiru. He said that he
had Jabiru 5100 serial number 5. The dinner was Thursday night though, and
I was already a bit tired from walking all over the show grounds since
arriving the Saturday before. There were no big announcements from
Zenith/Zenair/AMD/CANZAC, etc. that I heard, just a comfortable evening
among the Zenith community. It was clear that the Zenith vendor community
now includes a lot of new faces reflecting growth that benefits all of us,
vendors and customers alike.
Jeff Davidson
CH 601 HD/ Jabiru 3300A
Herndon, Virginia
Message 11
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| Subject: | Gloves for Chemical Protection |
Gloves for Chemical ProtectionTry disposable nitrile gloves.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave VanLanen
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:27 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection
I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for protecting
my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I discovered
yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these chemicals, because I
was using them with acetone to clean off some parts, and I had a small cut
on my finger. I felt the sting of the chemical in the cut, and realized
that it was getting past the gloves. I like these thin, latex-like gloves
as they are easy to work with. What type of gloves should I be using to
insure protection?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
601XL - stabilizer
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection |
Gloves for Chemical ProtectionYep... These work. I've been using these
since I started my project...
Thanks,
Randy
XL - Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: raymondj
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection
Try disposable nitrile gloves.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
VanLanen
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:27 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection
I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for
protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I
discovered yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these
chemicals, because I was using them with acetone to clean off some
parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt the sting of the
chemical in the cut, and realized that it was getting past the gloves.
I like these thin, latex-like gloves as they are easy to work with.
What type of gloves should I be using to insure protection?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
601XL - stabilizer
Message 13
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| Subject: | EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to |
most of us)
The 701 you mention made the Todays Airventure Photo page http://www.airventure.org/2006/gallery/july30/zenith_ch701.jpg
Randy Stout
San Antonio, TX
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
do not archive
N701SR was a Past Champion 701 on floats with an O-200 and eye catching
graphics on both side. I noticed solid rivets in the area of the graphics
so that there was a flat surface to paint on. It was truly an outstanding machine
as others commented.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
John. The dimension is critical as you suspect but the answer is not as simple
as you imagined. The 50mm is for the hole location. The design intent is that
the hole ends up 50mm from the upper flange of the spar. However, you should stop
right here and study the plans a little so that you can see why this hole
location is important. You will probably find that the answer is not quite either
of the possibilities you mentioned but there is a "fudge" factor involved
here.
Take a look at the stabiliser exploded view on 7-H-0. You will see your part 7H3-3SP
at the top left as a stand alone part but it is in the assy view also. Look
in the center rear of the assy. It sticks out of the rear and is not identified.
It is in between the two 7H4 parts but on the rear of the spar. Now look
to port and starboard from your part and you will see part 7H3-1. one at each
end. You can see the holes in them. These three holes all need to line up nicely
for your elevator to swivel freely.Because your part is 2mm oversize I suggest
you put your hole in the middle of the radius and then trim some of the
2mm excess to achieve 50mm. If it's the other way around and you end up with 48mm
by centering the hole within the rad, thats ok. Remember, the 50mm is the
position needed from the top flange of the spar, not from the top of the part
itself. You should drill the hole undersize by the way. You can get some adjustment
out of it later if you drill it 1/8" only for now. You should also glance
at page 7H4 lower left. Then go back to the page that has your part on it. I
don't know what your blueprint reading skills are but there is a wealth of information
in the 4 part views spread up and down the left side of the page. Look
at the vertical line running through your hole. It shows the relationship with
parts 7H3-1 that I mentioned out at the stabiliser ends. Sorry John nothings
simple. If you make all your parts blindly to the print a lot of them wouldn't
fit together. Hope this helps..........Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50834#50834
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Engine for 601XL |
I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking
about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine
would you choose?
The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300 seems
to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a complete
firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the most
expensive.
Actual payload in the real world, is there that much difference? Maybe
20 pounds at most??
Thank you for your comments.
Bill in central Florida
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
I vote for the Jabiru 3300...... I'll probably be stoned by the fans of
the other engines but its horsepower at the max usable rpm (110hp @ 3000
rpm), the fact that it's a direct drive, designed to swing a prop, six
cylinders, one carb, regular aircraft style dual ignition, and a well
tweaked FWF package are big pluses. The factory demo is powered by the
3300 and it accelerated and climbed well with two of us on board.... I
recall 95 mph IAS and 1,000 fpm climb. The guys who are flying it claim
5 gph @125 IAS on premium auto fuel. I have one on order with Jabiru USA
as a matter of fact.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
PS: Bill of Georgia may want to chime in on this since he has some
flying experience with the 3300. Bill, what say you?
I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking
about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine
would you choose?
Bill in central Florida
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP |
Thanks to everyone for their responses. I think the best thing for me to do
is contact Zenith and get a replacement part.
After studying the plans for longer and reviewing everyone's responses I
suspect that
1) It's cut wrong
2) The flange is bent in the wrong direction!
There is a photo of the piece on my blog.
Thanks,
John in Seattle
On 7/29/06, John Marzulli <john.marzulli@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone had the following problem?
>
> I'm starting my elevator/stab hinges and noticed a difference between the
> builder's manual, the plans and the manufactured piece supplied by Zenith
> concerning the Center Hinge Bracket ( 7H3-3SP ).
>
> Using the plans I measured 50mm into the flange to make a mark to draw the
> perpendicular line. This line was off center with the bracket tip by about
> 2mm. The builders manual states that the line should be centered with the
> tip.
>
> When tried to figure out why this was and I realized that the flange was
> 109mm in length, not 107mm as stated in the plans.
>
> Since these measurments are enclosed by boxes on the plans, I assume they
> are critical, especially since being off will cause problems with the
> elevator's movement.
>
> Is it better to use the tip center to determine the line knowing that one
> side of the piece was manufactured 2mm to long, possibly grinding down that
> side? ( my guess )
>
> Or would it be better to use the line drawn 50mm in? ( seems like that
> would weaken the hinge )
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> John Marzulli
> http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
Message 18
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list members,
On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP" I
saw a tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round flat
disk that worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and
different sizes with a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was
a center hole where a large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the
other end. this would be placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre
drilled hole the size of the bolt and when the nut and washer were
tightend it would make a perfact hole to mount an aircraft instrument.
This is by far the best system I have ever seen for making instrument
holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who
stocks this tool.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Special tool |
That sounds a little bit like a Greenlee punch. These can be bought
in many sizes to make perfect round holes in sheet metal. Alas,
they cost the Earth. They are very popular in the electronics
industry (where I spent a significant number of years), but perhaps a
bit expensive for home builders to buy.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:40 PM 7/30/2006, you wrote:
>
>list members,
> On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by
> "HomebuiltHELP" I saw a tool that I am very much interested in The
> tool was one round flat disk that worked like an anvil. The other
> disc's were round and different sizes with a 90 degree flange that
> was very sharp. There was a center hole where a large bolt would
> go in and a nut w/washer on the other end. this would be placed in
> a sheet of aluminum with a pre drilled hole the size of the bolt
> and when the nut and washer were tightend it would make a perfact
> hole to mount an aircraft instrument. This is by far the best
> system I have ever seen for making instrument holes and I would
> like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who stocks this tool.
>
>Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
>Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
-
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
Hi Bill,
I also plan to buy a Jabiru 3300 for my XL. I want the maximum climb
performance I can get and the numbers published on Zenith Aircraft's
site and what I have heard around the patch indicate the Jabiru is
the best choice for performance.
Many people like the Corvair conversion for economical purchase
price. Nobody seems to have any exact performance numbers for these
engines, though. The anecdotal information indicates they are not
very powerful when compared to all the other choices mentioned here.
Rotax engines - particularly the 912ULS - are very popular with
European Zodiacs. They offer good performance and light weight. On
the down side they require a water cooling system and PSRU to turn
the prop. I think the Jabiru is a better choice since it has similar
(or somewhat better) performance numbers and over twice the
displacement. That leads me to believe it isn't working as hard to
achieve its power output. The factory built complete planes from
CZAW use the Rotax engine and both Cessna and Van's are talking as if
this will be their choice for their as yet unannounced LSA entries.
You can also get a new 601XL from AMD with a Continental 0-200
installed. Lycoming O-235s also are used. Both of these choices
offer advantages in service availability at every nick and corner of
the USA and also offer the possibility of used engine purchase. The
down side of both of these engines is the weight is high and the
performance relatively low. They are also more expensive than the
other choices since they are FAA certified.
One choice I am considering for use if the Jabiru deal falls through
for me is the Continental IO-240. This is two thirds of their old
workhorse the IO-360 (the engine I have the most time logged on in
certified planes). It is slightly over the power limits specified on
the XL drawings, but I might be willing to take that chance. On the
down side they are nearly impossible to get since Continental doesn't
seem to have any sales organization for home builders. I tried to
get information from them and didn't get much response. I imagine if
I were a large manufacturer I would be beating the sales people away
with a stick. They also don't offer anything except the engine, so
if I go that way I need to find another source for mount, cowling,
baffles, etc. So, for me, the Jabiru choice comes out first.
Any of these engine choices should work fine in Zodiacs. You can
probably install other ones too. The plans limit the horsepower from
80 to 120 and (if I recall correctly) the FWF to 300 pounds max.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 04:21 PM 7/30/2006, you wrote:
>I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking
>about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine
>would you choose?
>
>The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300
>seems to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a
>complete firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the
>most expensive.
>
>Actual payload in the real world, is there that much
>difference? Maybe 20 pounds at most??
>
>Thank you for your comments.
>
>Bill in central Florida
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Special tool |
It's not a Greenlee punch. I have no idea who makes it but you can buy
it here:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Tools/InstrumentPanel.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Special tool
That sounds a little bit like a Greenlee punch. These can be bought
in many sizes to make perfect round holes in sheet metal. Alas, they
cost the Earth. They are very popular in the electronics industry (where
I spent a significant number of years), but perhaps a bit expensive for
home builders to buy.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:40 PM 7/30/2006, you wrote:
list members,
On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP"
I saw a tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round
flat disk that worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and
different sizes with a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was
a center hole where a large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the
other end. this would be placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre
drilled hole the size of the bolt and when the nut and washer were
tightend it would make a perfact hole to mount an aircraft instrument.
This is by far the best system I have ever seen for making instrument
holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who
stocks this tool.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
-
Message 22
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|
HYPERLINK
"http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHC318"http://w
w
w.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHC318
HYPERLINK
"http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHT250"http://w
w
w.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHT250
Hi Bob, the link above is the tool you=92re looking for. Unfortunately,
it
is expensive and I have found that a local machine shop can in fact make
one cheaper.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Stone
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:41 PM
list members,
On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP" I
saw a tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round flat
disk that worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and
different sizes with a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was
a center hole where a large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the
other end. this would be placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre
drilled hole the size of the bolt and when the nut and washer were
tightend it would make a perfact hole to mount an aircraft instrument.
This is by far the best system I have ever seen for making instrument
holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who
stocks this tool.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/28/2006
--
7/28/2006
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
I've been flying the Jabiru 3300 in my 601XL for the past year. FWF
good quality. Just finished my first annual condition insp and have 120
flight hrs. Great engine, good gas mileage, easily uses mogas or 100LL;
Jab sounds like - -- - an airplane engine. Would do it again with the
Jab. Jabiru USA is really good to work with.
Tony Graziano N493TG
Engine for 601XL
From: allpro2@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun Jul 30 - 4:21 PM
I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking
about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine
would you choose?
The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300 seems
to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a complete
firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the most
expensive.
Actual payload in the real world, is there that much difference? Maybe
20 pounds at most??
Thank you for your comments.
Bill in central Florida
Message 24
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Does anyone have any personal experience with the Jabiru 180 horse
engine? I've looked at the website, but am wondering what they are
really like. Looks like they are similar in cost to an XP360.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
I've been debating this same issue for a while now myself. Ever since I
first decided to build the XL, I've planned on using a Corvair
conversion, bought the manual...etc. Even after "deciding" on the
Corvair, I still have researched other engine options, including other
auto conversions. I finally made up my mind, and have decided to go
with the Lycoming O-235, and have purchased one. Not a slam on other
engines, this was just my choice. I'm sure Jab, Rotax..etc. owners are
happy with their choice, and I've made mine as well, deciding to go with
the O-235.
Thoughts that went into my decision were not totally based on finances,
although that did play a part. There were other elements such as
reliability, proven track record, available mechanics for the
brand/type, parts availabilty...etc.
Just my .02,
Randy
XL - Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: T. Graziano
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL
I've been flying the Jabiru 3300 in my 601XL for the past year. FWF
good quality. Just finished my first annual condition insp and have 120
flight hrs. Great engine, good gas mileage, easily uses mogas or 100LL;
Jab sounds like - -- - an airplane engine. Would do it again with the
Jab. Jabiru USA is really good to work with.
Tony Graziano N493TG
Engine for 601XL
From: allpro2@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun Jul 30 - 4:21 PM
I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking
about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine
would you choose?
The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300 seems
to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a complete
firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the most
expensive.
Actual payload in the real world, is there that much difference? Maybe
20 pounds at most??
Thank you for your comments.
Bill in central Florida
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
Hay Ed,
Me too, I have heard that everything you said about the Jabiru 3300
is true and in addition there is almost no vibration. The six cylinders
make it a very smooth running mill just like the Corvair which also has
six cylinders. It's also cheaper than the Rotax engine of the same
power.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Moody II
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for 601XL
I vote for the Jabiru 3300...... I'll probably be stoned by the fans
of the other engines but its horsepower at the max usable rpm (110hp @
3000 rpm), the fact that it's a direct drive, designed to swing a prop,
six cylinders, one carb, regular aircraft style dual ignition, and a
well tweaked FWF package are big pluses. The factory demo is powered by
the 3300 and it accelerated and climbed well with two of us on board....
I recall 95 mph IAS and 1,000 fpm climb. The guys who are flying it
claim 5 gph @125 IAS on premium auto fuel. I have one on order with
Jabiru USA as a matter of fact.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / 2nd wing
PS: Bill of Georgia may want to chime in on this since he has some
flying experience with the 3300. Bill, what say you?
From: allpro2@bellsouth.net
I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking
about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine
would you choose?
Bill in central Florida
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
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Message 28
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As a machinist I was/am very impressed with the engine. A few years back
the price was inline with experimental do it yourself costs. They now a
re getting quite expensive. The big drawback of the 8 cyl for a stol pla
ne is that stols need a large diameter prop and the 5100 makes 180 HP at
3300 rpm. It is a good engine for an RV needing a 68 -72" dia prop. At
2700 rpm the thing makes something like 135 HP. An 801 needs way more th
en that.....
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net> wrote:
Does anyone have any personal experience with the Jabiru 180 horse engi
ne? I've looked at the website, but am wondering what they are really li
ke. Looks like they are similar in cost to an XP360. Dave in Salem801
<html><P>As a machinist I was/am very impressed with the engine. A few y
ears back the price was inline with experimental do it yourself costs. T
hey now are getting quite expensive. The big drawback of the 8 cyl for a
stol plane is that stols need a large diameter prop and the 5100 makes
180 HP at 3300 rpm. It is a good engine for an RV needing a 68 -72" dia
prop. At 2700 rpm the thing makes something like 135 HP. An 801 needs wa
y more then that.....</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcas
t.net> wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone have any personal experienc
e with the Jabiru 180 horse engine? I've looked at the website, but am w
ondering what they are really like. Looks like they are similar in cost
to an XP360.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave in Salem</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>801</FONT></DIV></html>
Message 29
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$300 for the 3 1/8" punch from AS&S.
www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/knockout2.php
Borrow one from your local EAA chapter if you can. Or use a fly cutter. For
best results use it in a drill press and cut a test hole in scrap to check
the size adjustment.
-- Craig
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stone
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:41 PM
list members,
On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP" I saw a
tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round flat disk that
worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and different sizes with
a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was a center hole where a
large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the other end. this would be
placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre drilled hole the size of the bolt
and when the nut and washer were tightend it would make a perfact hole to
mount an aircraft instrument. This is by far the best system I have ever
seen for making instrument holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you
have any idea who stocks this tool.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
Message 30
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Ben,
Good point. That's why I asked the question.
How is the V8 in your plane holding up? I contacted you awhile back
about it, but didn't pursue it much further. Are you selling
installation kits or firewall forward with your engines?
----- Original Message -----
From: n801bh@netzero.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru 5100
As a machinist I was/am very impressed with the engine. A few years
back the price was inline with experimental do it yourself costs. They
now are getting quite expensive. The big drawback of the 8 cyl for a
stol plane is that stols need a large diameter prop and the 5100 makes
180 HP at 3300 rpm. It is a good engine for an RV needing a 68 -72" dia
prop. At 2700 rpm the thing makes something like 135 HP. An 801 needs
way more then that.....
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net> wrote:
Does anyone have any personal experience with the Jabiru 180 horse
engine? I've looked at the website, but am wondering what they are
really like. Looks like they are similar in cost to an XP360.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Randy Stout
How does the fuel burn compare to others.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stout
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:31 PM
Have any of you guys given any thought to the Franklin engine. The 4
cylinder seems to be comparable to an O-200. It uses the same mount, weighs
about the same and puts out 125 hp/254 ft lbs of torque. Cost $6900 new.
They don't appear to have a firewall forward, but it looks like you could
use ZACs O-200 cowl and mount.
They also had a 6 cylinder 220 hp that might work for you 801 and 640
builders.
Randy Stout
San Antonio, TX
n282rs@earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
When I went on my demo ride with Roger at the factory, I asked him what fuel
burn was on the plane. He stated that it was an average of 6.2 GPH at
cruise. He told me it was a little higher than what the factory reported. What
are some of you Corvair guys seeing for fuel burn at cruise. I have flown a
Corvair powered XL and the factory demo. The factory demo plane could beat a
Corvair in the long run, but I found the climb to be better in the Corvair
powered plane. Both planes were at gross weight. We were hitting 90 mph and
950 fpm in the Jabiru with 660 hrs on it at the time and 90 mph and 1025 fpm
in the Corvair which had 15 hrs on it. Just my experience. I am hoping to
fly a XL with a O-235 in 2 weeks. I want to see what it can do before I make
my final engine choice.
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
I am curious about the Franklin engine, also. They offer an FAA certified 125HP
engine that fits an O-200 mount for $6900. However, I have had difficulty finding
any information on the internet from homebuilders who are flying with this
engine.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
601 scratch builder
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50943#50943
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