---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/30/06: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:39 AM - Re: Firewall rivets (Noel Loveys) 2. 07:55 AM - Re: Ch 620 (Jeff) 3. 07:55 AM - Re: Garanger (Bill Naumuk) 4. 07:55 AM - Re: Firewall rivets (LarryMcFarland) 5. 09:03 AM - gravity actuated stomp press (Carlos Sa) 6. 10:31 AM - Gloves for Chemical Protection (Dave VanLanen) 7. 10:39 AM - Re: Garanger (ron wehba) 8. 12:04 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (Paul Mulwitz) 9. 12:33 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (LarryMcFarland) 10. 01:17 PM - EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most of us) (Jeff) 11. 01:30 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (raymondj) 12. 02:19 PM - Re: Gloves for Chemical Protection (Randy Bryant) 13. 02:29 PM - Re: EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most of us) (Randy Stout) 14. 03:57 PM - Re: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP (Geoff Heap) 15. 04:21 PM - Engine for 601XL () 16. 05:26 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (Edward Moody II) 17. 05:38 PM - Re: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP (John Marzulli) 18. 05:41 PM - Special tool (Robert L. Stone) 19. 06:13 PM - Re: Special tool (Paul Mulwitz) 20. 06:33 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (Paul Mulwitz) 21. 06:40 PM - Re: Special tool (Dave) 22. 06:58 PM - Re: Special tool (Zodie Rocket) 23. 07:11 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (T. Graziano) 24. 07:45 PM - Jabiru 5100 (Dave Ruddiman) 25. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (Randy Bryant) 26. 08:05 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (Robert L. Stone) 27. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (Randy Stout) 28. 08:34 PM - Re: Jabiru 5100 (n801bh@netzero.com) 29. 08:46 PM - Re: Special tool (Craig Payne) 30. 09:09 PM - Re: Jabiru 5100 (Dave Ruddiman) 31. 09:14 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (kevinbonds) 32. 09:32 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (LHusky@aol.com) 33. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (Randy Stout) 34. 10:21 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (TxDave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:32 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Firewall rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" Isn't it true that the stainless steel will corrode at a slower rate than aluminium it is in contact with? That would make SS rivets more appealing to me...remember we are only discussing a hand full of rivets in a key location not the whole structure. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > LarryMcFarland > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 10:13 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall rivets > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > > Dave, > I used aluminum rivets in a stainless firewall with aluminum skin and > longerons because it's sound. The temps that would melt the rivets > would otherwise melt > the airframe as quickly. The surfaces were zinc chromated, but if I > were to put corroding parts together, I'd rather not see it on the > outside of my skins. > With a header tank, its likely the heat would be greater > inside anyway, > eh? Strength wise, the aluminum rivets have done the job well for my > 601. :-) > > Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com > > > zman601xl@verizon.net wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > > > >I believe the accepted procedure is to prime the contacting > surfaces, particularly with dissimilar metals (which includes > different alloys of the same basic metal). If that is an > accepted practice as is dipping rivets in Zinc Oxide or Zinc > Cromate primer at the time of insertion, then I'd guess the > issue was adequately covered. Anyone have other or additional > ideas or hints? Ed Moody IIRayne, LA601XL / 2nd wing The > firewall is steel...either galvanized or stainless. But the > "L" braces and the channels are aluminum. Aren't those > dissimilar metals? What's the difference between aluminum > rivets in stainless steel...and stainless rivets in > aluminum? Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:58 AM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ch 620 While there was no announcement at Oshkosh as I had hoped, I did heard totally unsubstantiated rumours that the 750 and maybe a new version of the 620 would be announced at Sun-N-Fun. So the rumour was that the 620 is not dead. Just a rumour from another builder at the Zenair dinner. Jeff Davidson Do not archive _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 5:59 PM Hello Tom: I remember reading a magazing interview with CH where he said (paraphrasing here....)... the lack of a lightweight aero-powerplant that would accept a full-feathering prop put the Gemini as a very low priority. The prototype has an engine-out climb rate that was almost non-existant. The drag of the stopped prop was just too much to overcome. Please don't ask me to reference the article - it has been lost to the dross within my own overburdened grey matter...... Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) working on wings do not archive In a message dated 7/28/2006 4:27:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, admin@arachnidrobotics.com writes: This may be a bit early, seeing as how I'm not yet done with my 601XL, but has anyone heard any further info on the Gemini 620? I understand that it's been put on the back burner, but is it still simmering or has it died? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:58 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Garanger Sheesh, $40K! All I can say guys, is if you know you're going to have to build a bigger shop to complete your project, start stashing necessary supplies away when they come on a loss leader sale. Metals (Wiring) and plastics (Vinyl siding) are the worst. 12/2 romex was $39.26/100' when I started the garanger 4 months ago, and it's as high as $128/100' now. I got my siding for $50/sq, it's running as high as $68/sq now. Thankfully, a contractor friend let me use his account number when I had to get the 10/2 I used to run from the main box or I would have had to take out a bank loan! I got out for $11K, 4 months sweat equity, and a LOT of shopping. Check out the little guys- they might have stock they haven't updated the prices on yet. Good building, be it residential or Zenith. do not archive Bill Naumuk 40%HDS Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Garanger Simple shop or garage with some up-grades, over $100 per sq.ft. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, working on wings.... Do Not Archive All- The garanger's done. . It cost .probably 25-30K in our area. God knows what it would be on the West Coast. . Bill Naumuk 40%HDS Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:58 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Noel, I think you can go either way without much worry. The concern is mostly if you need to leave the surface unpainted (appearance) or whether you intend to finish off the aircraft. If you corrosion proof, there isn't much of either material decision that can go wrong. Larry McFarland do not archive Noel Loveys wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >Isn't it true that the stainless steel will corrode at a slower rate than >aluminium it is in contact with? That would make SS rivets more appealing >to me...remember we are only discussing a hand full of rivets in a key >location not the whole structure. > >Noel > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:26 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: gravity actuated stomp press --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Ron, how did you achieve the 1/8" radius when you bent the flap skin? I have to make new skins for my ailerons, and advanced technology like "gravity press" interests me... Carlos CH601-HD, from plans Montreal, Canada do not archive --- Ron Lendon a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" > ... > You might wanna take a look at how I solved bending the flaps. The final 163 degree bend was > done with the 200lb gravity actuated stomp press [Laughing] > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:15 AM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I discovered yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these chemicals, because I was using them with acetone to clean off some parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt the sting of the chemical in the cut, and realized that it was getting past the gloves. I like these thin, latex-like gloves as they are easy to work with. What type of gloves should I be using to insure protection? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen 601XL - stabilizer ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:26 AM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Garanger 40k wow!!!, I just built a 24 x 24 with a 4" slab w/ 12" x 24" footing using 2x6 11ga. rect. tubing for all the strutural and 4" c- purlin white r-panal one 7 x 9 roll-up door and one 3' walk door, sidewalls 9' tall roof on a 1/12 pitch. built 3 trusses stood up on 12' center, purlin on 4' centers all labor mine and wifes one helper on concrete. slab concrete 1250, plus 200 trip charge and fuel surcharge. rebar 125 power trowl rental 50 building all structural steel, sheet and trim 3400 doors 650 wiring don't know yet ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Garanger Sheesh, $40K! All I can say guys, is if you know you're going to have to build a bigger shop to complete your project, start stashing necessary supplies away when they come on a loss leader sale. Metals (Wiring) and plastics (Vinyl siding) are the worst. 12/2 romex was $39.26/100' when I started the garanger 4 months ago, and it's as high as $128/100' now. I got my siding for $50/sq, it's running as high as $68/sq now. Thankfully, a contractor friend let me use his account number when I had to get the 10/2 I used to run from the main box or I would have had to take out a bank loan! I got out for $11K, 4 months sweat equity, and a LOT of shopping. Check out the little guys- they might have stock they haven't updated the prices on yet. Good building, be it residential or Zenith. do not archive Bill Naumuk 40%HDS Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Garanger Simple shop or garage with some up-grades, over $100 per sq.ft. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, working on wings.... Do Not Archive All- The garanger's done. . It cost .probably 25-30K in our area. God knows what it would be on the West Coast. . Bill Naumuk 40%HDS Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:32 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection Hi Dave, I like the latex examination gloves for general light duty work. For heavier work, kitchen style rubber gloves work well. For really heavy duty and really rotten chemical work, Neoprene gloves work best. If you want a general purpose use glove, I would recommend kitchen style rubber gloves. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 10:27 AM 7/30/2006, you wrote: >I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for >protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and >acetone. However I discovered yesterday that these gloves are not >impervious to these chemicals, because I was using them with acetone >to clean off some parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt >the sting of the chemical in the cut, and realized that it was >getting past the gloves. I like these thin, latex-like gloves as >they are easy to work with. What type of gloves should I be using >to insure protection? > >Thanks, > >Dave Van Lanen > >601XL - stabilizer --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:18 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Dave, I found Acetone is good for working in fiberglass resins etc, but prefer to use MEK for cleaning small parts as it too is a solvent. I've bought thick "solvent gloves" and they didn't do the job either. I just try to minimize my contact with the stuff. Use a brush and or scotchbrite pads to apply them. Don't forget the respirator mask as you can do more harm than absorbing the stuff. Larry McFarland do not archive Dave VanLanen wrote: > I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painters gloves for > protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I > discovered yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these > chemicals, because I was using them with acetone to clean off some > parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt the sting of the > chemical in the cut, and realized that it was getting past the gloves. > I like these thin, latex-like gloves as they are easy to work with. > What type of gloves should I be using to insure protection? > > Thanks, > > Dave Van Lanen > > 601XL - stabilizer > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:19 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: Zenith-List: EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most of us) For those that didn't go, here is a summary of the fly-in. As usual, there were not a lot of Zenith aircraft to be found, but this year there was a great selection of Zenith craft on the field. For example: N645AB a 601HDS was a really nicely done craft. What I noticed was that the edges of the fuel caps on the wing tanks were beveled and polished to address the height of the caps above the skin. A really neat solution to control locks: A piece of aluminum shaped like the control systems tangs had short rods through each end. The two ends of the rods had plastic tubing over them to protect the finish. The locks then just slid into place between the elevator and the fiberglass edge of the horizontal stabilizer. And similarly for the ailerons. It had a Jabiru, a sunscreen on the canopy top, a simple canopy lock using a second piece of extruded below the canopy handle with a small simple key lock holding the canopy down, and a great paint job. OLD CROW was a 601 HD that Chris would love. Still bare metal with what looked like a home brew FWF for its O-235?, it looked like it was meeting Chris' mission of providing lots of flying fun since the late 90s while not breaking the bank. It was the "prototype" 601 pretty much "stock". It was there early in the show. N85132 was a 601 HD with nice paint and a Rotax 912 ULS. N701SR was a Past Champion 701 on floats with an O-200 and eye catching graphics on both side. I noticed solid rivets in the area of the graphics so that there was a flat surface to paint on. It was truly an outstanding machine as others commented. N61BM was a 601XL with a Subaru EA-81. It was bare, but polished! The interior was under cover. A nice airplane that Chris would like. N701TD was a 701 named Boop-Boop A-Doop with a great military paint job. It had a wooden floor and attractive interior. N801LL was an 801. Painted red and yellow, it was hard to miss even though it was tucked away in the far homebuilt area. It looked like some trim tab experimenting was going on the aileron. An external power connection was an unusual feature. I met the owner Larry in the food line at the Zenith Dinner. He was an interesting and popular person to talk to. Sorry guys, but the only 640 I saw was at the Zenair booth. For me this was a shopping trip. I just closed my eyes and went for the Dynon EFIS and EMS with some options and the Garmin Sport pack (396, SL40, and 327 transponder) minus the 396 which I already have. Will be putting my panel together real soon! When I started I was told the plane would cost about one third for the airframe, one third for the FWF, and one third for the panel. I'm a little top heavy on the FWF with the 3300, but that is about how it will work out. So for about 36K I will have become somewhat educated in aircraft construction, filled in my spare time over the past decade, and got a new plane to boot! There was a lot of talk about the 51% rule in multiple forums. The common point was the 51% rule pertains to the airframe, not to the entire aircraft. An auxiliary point was that there is still a lot to do after the airframe is complete: FWF, electrical, paint, interior, panel, etc. The Zenith dinner was a little different this year without Chris there. He is in France building a house. Partially retired, he is still designing and responding to builder requests to modify the design. Can-Zac admirably filled the host role. William Wynne of Corvair fame was there and talked about working with the Heintz family. The effort to provide an FWF for the 801 in Venezuela is well on its way to completion. George presented slides of his junior high school classes building 701s letting just a little politics creep into the discussion concerning the impact of the "Leave no child behind" program. And Michael Heintz talked about his new venture out west. Jon Croke was there and took videos of willing builders so that we can connect faces and names. I got to talk to several builders, including one about the complete an 801 with the 8 cylinder Jabiru. He said that he had Jabiru 5100 serial number 5. The dinner was Thursday night though, and I was already a bit tired from walking all over the show grounds since arriving the Saturday before. There were no big announcements from Zenith/Zenair/AMD/CANZAC, etc. that I heard, just a comfortable evening among the Zenith community. It was clear that the Zenith vendor community now includes a lot of new faces reflecting growth that benefits all of us, vendors and customers alike. Jeff Davidson CH 601 HD/ Jabiru 3300A Herndon, Virginia ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:57 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection Gloves for Chemical ProtectionTry disposable nitrile gloves. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave VanLanen Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:27 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I discovered yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these chemicals, because I was using them with acetone to clean off some parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt the sting of the chemical in the cut, and realized that it was getting past the gloves. I like these thin, latex-like gloves as they are easy to work with. What type of gloves should I be using to insure protection? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen 601XL - stabilizer ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:43 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection Gloves for Chemical ProtectionYep... These work. I've been using these since I started my project... Thanks, Randy XL - Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: raymondj To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection Try disposable nitrile gloves. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave VanLanen Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:27 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Gloves for Chemical Protection I purchased a box of the vinyl (non-latex) painter's gloves for protecting my hands while using lacquer thinner and acetone. However I discovered yesterday that these gloves are not impervious to these chemicals, because I was using them with acetone to clean off some parts, and I had a small cut on my finger. I felt the sting of the chemical in the cut, and realized that it was getting past the gloves. I like these thin, latex-like gloves as they are easy to work with. What type of gloves should I be using to insure protection? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen 601XL - stabilizer ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:29 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most of us) The 701 you mention made the Todays Airventure Photo page http://www.airventure.org/2006/gallery/july30/zenith_ch701.jpg Randy Stout San Antonio, TX n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 do not archive N701SR was a Past Champion 701 on floats with an O-200 and eye catching graphics on both side. I noticed solid rivets in the area of the graphics so that there was a flat surface to paint on. It was truly an outstanding machine as others commented. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:37 PM PST US From: "Geoff Heap" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" John. The dimension is critical as you suspect but the answer is not as simple as you imagined. The 50mm is for the hole location. The design intent is that the hole ends up 50mm from the upper flange of the spar. However, you should stop right here and study the plans a little so that you can see why this hole location is important. You will probably find that the answer is not quite either of the possibilities you mentioned but there is a "fudge" factor involved here. Take a look at the stabiliser exploded view on 7-H-0. You will see your part 7H3-3SP at the top left as a stand alone part but it is in the assy view also. Look in the center rear of the assy. It sticks out of the rear and is not identified. It is in between the two 7H4 parts but on the rear of the spar. Now look to port and starboard from your part and you will see part 7H3-1. one at each end. You can see the holes in them. These three holes all need to line up nicely for your elevator to swivel freely.Because your part is 2mm oversize I suggest you put your hole in the middle of the radius and then trim some of the 2mm excess to achieve 50mm. If it's the other way around and you end up with 48mm by centering the hole within the rad, thats ok. Remember, the 50mm is the position needed from the top flange of the spar, not from the top of the part itself. You should drill the hole undersize by the way. You can get some adjustment out of it later if you drill it 1/8" only for now. You should also glance at page 7H4 lower left. Then go back to the page that has your part on it. I don't know what your blueprint reading skills are but there is a wealth of information in the 4 part views spread up and down the left side of the page. Look at the vertical line running through your hole. It shows the relationship with parts 7H3-1 that I mentioned out at the stabiliser ends. Sorry John nothings simple. If you make all your parts blindly to the print a lot of them wouldn't fit together. Hope this helps..........Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50834#50834 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:50 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Engine for 601XL I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine would you choose? The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300 seems to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a complete firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the most expensive. Actual payload in the real world, is there that much difference? Maybe 20 pounds at most?? Thank you for your comments. Bill in central Florida ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:19 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for 601XL I vote for the Jabiru 3300...... I'll probably be stoned by the fans of the other engines but its horsepower at the max usable rpm (110hp @ 3000 rpm), the fact that it's a direct drive, designed to swing a prop, six cylinders, one carb, regular aircraft style dual ignition, and a well tweaked FWF package are big pluses. The factory demo is powered by the 3300 and it accelerated and climbed well with two of us on board.... I recall 95 mph IAS and 1,000 fpm climb. The guys who are flying it claim 5 gph @125 IAS on premium auto fuel. I have one on order with Jabiru USA as a matter of fact. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / 2nd wing PS: Bill of Georgia may want to chime in on this since he has some flying experience with the 3300. Bill, what say you? I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine would you choose? Bill in central Florida ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:07 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: (CH701) problems measuring 7H3-3SP Thanks to everyone for their responses. I think the best thing for me to do is contact Zenith and get a replacement part. After studying the plans for longer and reviewing everyone's responses I suspect that 1) It's cut wrong 2) The flange is bent in the wrong direction! There is a photo of the piece on my blog. Thanks, John in Seattle On 7/29/06, John Marzulli wrote: > > Has anyone had the following problem? > > I'm starting my elevator/stab hinges and noticed a difference between the > builder's manual, the plans and the manufactured piece supplied by Zenith > concerning the Center Hinge Bracket ( 7H3-3SP ). > > Using the plans I measured 50mm into the flange to make a mark to draw the > perpendicular line. This line was off center with the bracket tip by about > 2mm. The builders manual states that the line should be centered with the > tip. > > When tried to figure out why this was and I realized that the flange was > 109mm in length, not 107mm as stated in the plans. > > Since these measurments are enclosed by boxes on the plans, I assume they > are critical, especially since being off will cause problems with the > elevator's movement. > > Is it better to use the tip center to determine the line knowing that one > side of the piece was manufactured 2mm to long, possibly grinding down that > side? ( my guess ) > > Or would it be better to use the line drawn 50mm in? ( seems like that > would weaken the hinge ) > > > Thanks, > > -- > John Marzulli > http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:10 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Special tool list members, On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP" I saw a tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round flat disk that worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and different sizes with a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was a center hole where a large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the other end. this would be placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre drilled hole the size of the bolt and when the nut and washer were tightend it would make a perfact hole to mount an aircraft instrument. This is by far the best system I have ever seen for making instrument holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who stocks this tool. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx Zodiac XL (Not too far along) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:00 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Special tool That sounds a little bit like a Greenlee punch. These can be bought in many sizes to make perfect round holes in sheet metal. Alas, they cost the Earth. They are very popular in the electronics industry (where I spent a significant number of years), but perhaps a bit expensive for home builders to buy. Paul XL fuselage At 05:40 PM 7/30/2006, you wrote: > >list members, > On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by > "HomebuiltHELP" I saw a tool that I am very much interested in The > tool was one round flat disk that worked like an anvil. The other > disc's were round and different sizes with a 90 degree flange that > was very sharp. There was a center hole where a large bolt would > go in and a nut w/washer on the other end. this would be placed in > a sheet of aluminum with a pre drilled hole the size of the bolt > and when the nut and washer were tightend it would make a perfact > hole to mount an aircraft instrument. This is by far the best > system I have ever seen for making instrument holes and I would > like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who stocks this tool. > >Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx >Zodiac XL (Not too far along) - ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:14 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for 601XL Hi Bill, I also plan to buy a Jabiru 3300 for my XL. I want the maximum climb performance I can get and the numbers published on Zenith Aircraft's site and what I have heard around the patch indicate the Jabiru is the best choice for performance. Many people like the Corvair conversion for economical purchase price. Nobody seems to have any exact performance numbers for these engines, though. The anecdotal information indicates they are not very powerful when compared to all the other choices mentioned here. Rotax engines - particularly the 912ULS - are very popular with European Zodiacs. They offer good performance and light weight. On the down side they require a water cooling system and PSRU to turn the prop. I think the Jabiru is a better choice since it has similar (or somewhat better) performance numbers and over twice the displacement. That leads me to believe it isn't working as hard to achieve its power output. The factory built complete planes from CZAW use the Rotax engine and both Cessna and Van's are talking as if this will be their choice for their as yet unannounced LSA entries. You can also get a new 601XL from AMD with a Continental 0-200 installed. Lycoming O-235s also are used. Both of these choices offer advantages in service availability at every nick and corner of the USA and also offer the possibility of used engine purchase. The down side of both of these engines is the weight is high and the performance relatively low. They are also more expensive than the other choices since they are FAA certified. One choice I am considering for use if the Jabiru deal falls through for me is the Continental IO-240. This is two thirds of their old workhorse the IO-360 (the engine I have the most time logged on in certified planes). It is slightly over the power limits specified on the XL drawings, but I might be willing to take that chance. On the down side they are nearly impossible to get since Continental doesn't seem to have any sales organization for home builders. I tried to get information from them and didn't get much response. I imagine if I were a large manufacturer I would be beating the sales people away with a stick. They also don't offer anything except the engine, so if I go that way I need to find another source for mount, cowling, baffles, etc. So, for me, the Jabiru choice comes out first. Any of these engine choices should work fine in Zodiacs. You can probably install other ones too. The plans limit the horsepower from 80 to 120 and (if I recall correctly) the FWF to 300 pounds max. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 04:21 PM 7/30/2006, you wrote: >I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking >about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine >would you choose? > >The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300 >seems to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a >complete firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the >most expensive. > >Actual payload in the real world, is there that much >difference? Maybe 20 pounds at most?? > >Thank you for your comments. > >Bill in central Florida ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:32 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Special tool It's not a Greenlee punch. I have no idea who makes it but you can buy it here: http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Tools/InstrumentPanel.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Special tool That sounds a little bit like a Greenlee punch. These can be bought in many sizes to make perfect round holes in sheet metal. Alas, they cost the Earth. They are very popular in the electronics industry (where I spent a significant number of years), but perhaps a bit expensive for home builders to buy. Paul XL fuselage At 05:40 PM 7/30/2006, you wrote: list members, On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP" I saw a tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round flat disk that worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and different sizes with a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was a center hole where a large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the other end. this would be placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre drilled hole the size of the bolt and when the nut and washer were tightend it would make a perfact hole to mount an aircraft instrument. This is by far the best system I have ever seen for making instrument holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who stocks this tool. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx Zodiac XL (Not too far along) - ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:02 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Special tool HYPERLINK "http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHC318"http://w w w.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHC318 HYPERLINK "http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHT250"http://w w w.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IHT250 Hi Bob, the link above is the tool you=92re looking for. Unfortunately, it is expensive and I have found that a local machine shop can in fact make one cheaper. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stone Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:41 PM list members, On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP" I saw a tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round flat disk that worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and different sizes with a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was a center hole where a large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the other end. this would be placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre drilled hole the size of the bolt and when the nut and washer were tightend it would make a perfact hole to mount an aircraft instrument. This is by far the best system I have ever seen for making instrument holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who stocks this tool. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx Zodiac XL (Not too far along) -- No virus found in this incoming message. 7/28/2006 -- 7/28/2006 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:43 PM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL I've been flying the Jabiru 3300 in my 601XL for the past year. FWF good quality. Just finished my first annual condition insp and have 120 flight hrs. Great engine, good gas mileage, easily uses mogas or 100LL; Jab sounds like - -- - an airplane engine. Would do it again with the Jab. Jabiru USA is really good to work with. Tony Graziano N493TG Engine for 601XL From: allpro2@bellsouth.net Date: Sun Jul 30 - 4:21 PM I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine would you choose? The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300 seems to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a complete firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the most expensive. Actual payload in the real world, is there that much difference? Maybe 20 pounds at most?? Thank you for your comments. Bill in central Florida ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:58 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru 5100 Does anyone have any personal experience with the Jabiru 180 horse engine? I've looked at the website, but am wondering what they are really like. Looks like they are similar in cost to an XP360. Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:40 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL I've been debating this same issue for a while now myself. Ever since I first decided to build the XL, I've planned on using a Corvair conversion, bought the manual...etc. Even after "deciding" on the Corvair, I still have researched other engine options, including other auto conversions. I finally made up my mind, and have decided to go with the Lycoming O-235, and have purchased one. Not a slam on other engines, this was just my choice. I'm sure Jab, Rotax..etc. owners are happy with their choice, and I've made mine as well, deciding to go with the O-235. Thoughts that went into my decision were not totally based on finances, although that did play a part. There were other elements such as reliability, proven track record, available mechanics for the brand/type, parts availabilty...etc. Just my .02, Randy XL - Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: T. Graziano To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:06 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL I've been flying the Jabiru 3300 in my 601XL for the past year. FWF good quality. Just finished my first annual condition insp and have 120 flight hrs. Great engine, good gas mileage, easily uses mogas or 100LL; Jab sounds like - -- - an airplane engine. Would do it again with the Jab. Jabiru USA is really good to work with. Tony Graziano N493TG Engine for 601XL From: allpro2@bellsouth.net Date: Sun Jul 30 - 4:21 PM I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine would you choose? The Corvair certainly is attractive price wise. The Jabiru 3300 seems to be catching on and the Jabiru factory certainly does have a complete firewall forward package. The Rotax 912s is probably the most expensive. Actual payload in the real world, is there that much difference? Maybe 20 pounds at most?? Thank you for your comments. Bill in central Florida ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:52 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for 601XL Hay Ed, Me too, I have heard that everything you said about the Jabiru 3300 is true and in addition there is almost no vibration. The six cylinders make it a very smooth running mill just like the Corvair which also has six cylinders. It's also cheaper than the Rotax engine of the same power. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx Zodiac XL (Not too far along) ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine for 601XL I vote for the Jabiru 3300...... I'll probably be stoned by the fans of the other engines but its horsepower at the max usable rpm (110hp @ 3000 rpm), the fact that it's a direct drive, designed to swing a prop, six cylinders, one carb, regular aircraft style dual ignition, and a well tweaked FWF package are big pluses. The factory demo is powered by the 3300 and it accelerated and climbed well with two of us on board.... I recall 95 mph IAS and 1,000 fpm climb. The guys who are flying it claim 5 gph @125 IAS on premium auto fuel. I have one on order with Jabiru USA as a matter of fact. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / 2nd wing PS: Bill of Georgia may want to chime in on this since he has some flying experience with the 3300. Bill, what say you? From: allpro2@bellsouth.net I realize this is probably old hat to most of you, but I am thinking about the 601 XL. If you were going to jump in today, which engine would you choose? Bill in central Florida ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:09 PM PST US From: Randy Stout Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:55 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru 5100 As a machinist I was/am very impressed with the engine. A few years back the price was inline with experimental do it yourself costs. They now a re getting quite expensive. The big drawback of the 8 cyl for a stol pla ne is that stols need a large diameter prop and the 5100 makes 180 HP at 3300 rpm. It is a good engine for an RV needing a 68 -72" dia prop. At 2700 rpm the thing makes something like 135 HP. An 801 needs way more th en that..... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Dave Ruddiman" wrote: Does anyone have any personal experience with the Jabiru 180 horse engi ne? I've looked at the website, but am wondering what they are really li ke. Looks like they are similar in cost to an XP360. Dave in Salem801

As a machinist I was/am very impressed with the engine. A few y ears back the price was inline with experimental do it yourself costs. T hey now are getting quite expensive. The big drawback of the 8 cyl for a stol plane is that stols need a large diameter prop and the 5100 makes 180 HP at 3300 rpm. It is a good engine for an RV needing a 68 -72" dia prop. At 2700 rpm the thing makes something like 135 HP. An 801 needs wa y more then that.....

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcas t.net> wrote:

 
Does anyone have any personal experienc e with the Jabiru 180 horse engine? I've looked at the website, but am w ondering what they are really like. Looks like they are similar in cost to an XP360.
 
 
Dave in Salem
801
________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:51 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Special tool $300 for the 3 1/8" punch from AS&S. www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/knockout2.php Borrow one from your local EAA chapter if you can. Or use a fly cutter. For best results use it in a drill press and cut a test hole in scrap to check the size adjustment. -- Craig _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stone Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:41 PM list members, On the DVD "Building a glass panel" produced by "HomebuiltHELP" I saw a tool that I am very much interested in The tool was one round flat disk that worked like an anvil. The other disc's were round and different sizes with a 90 degree flange that was very sharp. There was a center hole where a large bolt would go in and a nut w/washer on the other end. this would be placed in a sheet of aluminum with a pre drilled hole the size of the bolt and when the nut and washer were tightend it would make a perfact hole to mount an aircraft instrument. This is by far the best system I have ever seen for making instrument holes and I would like to get one. Do any of you have any idea who stocks this tool. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx Zodiac XL (Not too far along) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:25 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru 5100 Ben, Good point. That's why I asked the question. How is the V8 in your plane holding up? I contacted you awhile back about it, but didn't pursue it much further. Are you selling installation kits or firewall forward with your engines? ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru 5100 As a machinist I was/am very impressed with the engine. A few years back the price was inline with experimental do it yourself costs. They now are getting quite expensive. The big drawback of the 8 cyl for a stol plane is that stols need a large diameter prop and the 5100 makes 180 HP at 3300 rpm. It is a good engine for an RV needing a 68 -72" dia prop. At 2700 rpm the thing makes something like 135 HP. An 801 needs way more then that..... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Dave Ruddiman" wrote: Does anyone have any personal experience with the Jabiru 180 horse engine? I've looked at the website, but am wondering what they are really like. Looks like they are similar in cost to an XP360. Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:00 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Randy Stout How does the fuel burn compare to others. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stout Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:31 PM Have any of you guys given any thought to the Franklin engine. The 4 cylinder seems to be comparable to an O-200. It uses the same mount, weighs about the same and puts out 125 hp/254 ft lbs of torque. Cost $6900 new. They don't appear to have a firewall forward, but it looks like you could use ZACs O-200 cowl and mount. They also had a 6 cylinder 220 hp that might work for you 801 and 640 builders. Randy Stout San Antonio, TX n282rs@earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:59 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL When I went on my demo ride with Roger at the factory, I asked him what fuel burn was on the plane. He stated that it was an average of 6.2 GPH at cruise. He told me it was a little higher than what the factory reported. What are some of you Corvair guys seeing for fuel burn at cruise. I have flown a Corvair powered XL and the factory demo. The factory demo plane could beat a Corvair in the long run, but I found the climb to be better in the Corvair powered plane. Both planes were at gross weight. We were hitting 90 mph and 950 fpm in the Jabiru with 660 hrs on it at the time and 90 mph and 1025 fpm in the Corvair which had 15 hrs on it. Just my experience. I am hoping to fly a XL with a O-235 in 2 weeks. I want to see what it can do before I make my final engine choice. Larry Husky Lakeview, OR 601XL / Corvair Building Fuse Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:18 PM PST US From: Randy Stout Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:43 PM PST US From: "TxDave" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine for 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" I am curious about the Franklin engine, also. They offer an FAA certified 125HP engine that fits an O-200 mount for $6900. However, I have had difficulty finding any information on the internet from homebuilders who are flying with this engine. Dave Clay Temple, TX 601 scratch builder do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50943#50943