Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:55 AM - Re: Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods (Tom Faulkner)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: Engine for 601XL (rhartwig11@juno.com)
3. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: Engine for 601XL (Michel Therrien)
4. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: Franklin Engines (Michel Therrien)
5. 05:24 AM - Franklin (Zill Coleman)
6. 05:59 AM - Re: Any Zenair CH2000 owners on the List? (N5SL)
7. 06:01 AM - Re: Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods (n801bh@netzero.com)
8. 06:17 AM - Alternitive 601 Step designs? (Gig Giacona)
9. 06:44 AM - Paint weight (John Bolding)
10. 07:00 AM - Polished Aluminum (Scott Thatcher)
11. 07:00 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL (Phil Maxson)
12. 07:58 AM - Re: Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods (Geoff Heap)
13. 08:01 AM - Re: Polished Aluminum (Stanley Challgren)
14. 08:03 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
15. 08:34 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL (Tom Henderson)
16. 08:39 AM - Re: Polished Aluminum (Robin Bellach)
17. 09:21 AM - Speed & Zeniths: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL (TYA2)
18. 09:42 AM - Re: Paint weight (LarryMcFarland)
19. 09:59 AM - Re: Speed & Zeniths (don wentz)
20. 10:20 AM - Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Speed & Zeniths (Randy Bryant)
21. 10:54 AM - Re: Speed & Zeniths (Paul Mulwitz)
22. 11:45 AM - Re: Speed & Zeniths: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL (N5SL)
23. 11:48 AM - Re: Speed & Zeniths (Mike Fothergill)
24. 11:51 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL (Gig Giacona)
25. 12:11 PM - 801 Tail Height (Dave Ruddiman)
26. 12:43 PM - Re: 801 Tail Height (Bryan Martin)
27. 12:55 PM - Re: 801 Tail Height ()
28. 01:01 PM - Re: 801 Tail Height (Tom Henderson)
29. 01:55 PM - Tail Height? (Zed Smith)
30. 02:19 PM - Re: Engine for 601XL (David X)
31. 02:42 PM - Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods (Robin Bellach)
32. 02:56 PM - Re: [SPAM? ScoRe: 14.900] Re: Engine for 601XL (Frank Stutzman)
33. 03:18 PM - Re: Alternitive 601 Step designs? (George Swinford)
34. 03:34 PM - Re: Weight & Balance (David X)
35. 04:09 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Tachometer Problems (David X)
36. 04:15 PM - Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G (Eddie Seve)
37. 04:35 PM - Re: Tail Height? (Dave Ruddiman)
38. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G (Gary Boothe)
39. 05:02 PM - Re: Polished Aluminum (Phil Maxson)
40. 05:14 PM - : Weight of paint affecting the C of G (Robin Bellach)
41. 05:22 PM - Re: Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
42. 05:48 PM - Re: EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to most of us) (Jeff)
43. 05:51 PM - Re: 801 Tail Height (n801bh@netzero.com)
44. 06:11 PM - Stainless steel rivets (Chris sinfield)
45. 06:21 PM - Re: Polished Aluminum (Tim & Diane Shankland)
46. 06:28 PM - Re: Stainless steel rivets (Robin Bellach)
47. 07:04 PM - Re: Stainless steel rivets (Jaybannist@cs.com)
48. 07:36 PM - Now What? (Dave Ruddiman)
49. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Tachometer Problems (NYTerminat@aol.com)
50. 08:00 PM - Corvair Flight Engine for Sale (Dave Thompson)
51. 08:06 PM - Re: Now What? (Steve Hulland)
52. 08:17 PM - Re: Now What? (Robert L. Stone)
53. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL (Craig Payne)
54. 08:59 PM - Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G (David X)
55. 09:27 PM - Re: Now What? (Dave Ruddiman)
56. 09:33 PM - 701 Seat Belt Bracket (doug kandle)
57. 11:39 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
58. 11:48 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor@triton.net>
Geoff: Ben monitors this list, but you can contact him at
n801bh@netzero.com The Yamaha boots where on his 801, which I used on my
801 as well. I could also get the dimensions you need.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
Paul,
Things are going very smooth in the discussion of engine conversions, but
one reason things get nasty is when someone makes a comment like, "My
only problem with one particular group of conversion advocates is they
seem to have made their choice for misguided reasons." I hope that my
choice of Jab 2200 for the 701 is well guided.
(Also.......I bought some of the camouflage ScotchBrite, but can't seem
to find it.)
Rich Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11@juno.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Don't be too much excited! This is NOT a 6900$ engine.
At that price, it is not equiped. It needs the
magnetos (1300), carburetor (1000?), plugs (120$),
plug wires (160$), starter (500$), etc. I would call
it a 10 000$ or 11 000$ engine excluding FWF package
(mount, air box, cooler, etc)
Michel
--- Randy Bryant <randy@n344rb.com> wrote:
> Could be... I was just going on what he said about
> them not offering an overhaul kit... NOW, this could
> be a different case now since I've seen emails here
> today about the company being bought out, under new
> management...etc... Matter of fact, I'm hoping this
> is the case.. I sure would like to see a good
> reliable NEW engine in the $6900 price bracket...
> Competition is a good thing!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy
> Do Not Archive
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Franklin Engines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
They are not continuing... the plant that was
manufacturing the PZL Franklin was purchased by Pratt
& Whitney Canada. Then, PWC decided to stop the
production of piston engines at that plant (their
business is turboprops and jet engines). A new
company purchased the tooling and plans with the
intention of resuming production. Apparently this
what happened.
I also heard that somebody in the US wanted to become
the distributor for those Franklin engines (I'll post
when I find back who it is). This distributor would
not be the same as the previous one who has the
Franklinengines.com web site. (I purchased mine from
him just before SnF). I don't know what is the
pricing with the new Franklin manufacturer...
Michel
--- "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Apparently Frankling is going to continue, in
> Poland. The factory info might be:
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 5
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Franklin engines are not available. Production is "supposed to restart"
in Poland this winter. See website advertising, but no stock at
http://www.franklinengines.com/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Any Zenair CH2000 owners on the List? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Rocky:
If you can find a builder of a CH640, you may get some
help there. I understand the ch640 is similar to the
CH2000. Steve Adams in Evans Georgia, Doug Geese of
Churubusco, Indiana and Kay C Caldwell of Gunnison,
Utah are building CH640's according to
http://www.frappr.com/zenithch640
Also, you can contact Zenith Aircraft in Mexico, MO
and they can hook you up with a builder or two.
We had a guy on this list that used to post photos
regularly but I'm embarassed that I can't remember his
name (help me out here guys). He is finished and
flying and had an excellent website with good photos.
I hope this helps,
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
Canopy done,
Working on Engine cowl
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--- TYA2 <tya2@4-fly.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: TYA2
> <tya2@4-fly.net>
> I am a new CH2000 owner, that is the certified
> airplane with the 115 hp
> Lycoming. I am looking for information on the
costs
> of replacing all of the
> windows in terms of raw materials and labor? and I
> am also looking for
> information on any one who has had the factory
> cockpit upgrade done? How
> long did it take?
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods |
The yamaha boots are on my 801. They will probably fit on the entire Zen
ith line though
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Geoff Heap" <stol10@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
I'm looking for Ben Haas formerly at Benford2@aol.com or anyone who has
fitted Yamaha part # 8CR2195e to their steering rods.
I have a question regarding the dimensions of the assy. They may or may
not fit a 701. His photo in the archive looks like it may be a 601. Than
ks....Geoff
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51170#51170
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html>The yamaha boots are on my 801. They will probably fit on the enti
re Zenith line though<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowe
rair.com<BR><BR>-- "Geoff Heap" <stol10@COMCAST.NET>
; wrote:<BR>--> Zenith-List message posted b
y: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net><BR><BR>I'm&nbs
p;looking for Ben Haas formerly at Benford
2@aol.com or anyone who has fitted Yamaha&
nbsp;part # 8CR2195e to their steering rod
s.<BR>I have a question regarding the dime
nsions of the assy. They may or may&n
bsp;not fit a 701. His photo in the&n
bsp;archive looks like it may be a 60
1. Thanks....Geoff<BR>Do not archive<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>R
ead this topic online here:<BR><BR>http://forums.mat
ronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51170#51170<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
========================
- The Zenith-List&nb
e many List utilities such as the Sub
sp; &nb
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========================
========================
- NEW MATRONICS LIST&
p; &nbs
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========================
= &nb
Thank you for your generous s
bsp; &n
bsp; -Matt Dralle,&n
========================
==================<BR><BR><BR><BR>&n
bsp;<BR> <BR> <BR></html>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Alternitive 601 Step designs? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Has anyone come up with an alternitive design for the entry step that doesn't have
the bar that goes under the fuselage?
When I installed my bottom access door I mis-read the plans and installed it further
forward than I was supposed to. While this doesn't stop me from using the
original step design it does make fairing it somewhat more complex.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51462#51462
Message 9
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Something you guys have overlooked while discussing the additional
weight of paint is the transfer effeciency of the application method you
use. Most of that expensive stuff you bought ends up evaporating or on
the floor as overspray.
I sold/installed/helped design/repaired/trained painters in the spray
equipment industry for over 30 yrs. In hundreds of installations across
the country where we actually measured the part weight and paint weight
before spraying, immediatly after spraying and again after cure/drying I
can tell you for a FACT that the transfer effeciency claimed by some
paint spray equipment manufacturers is somewhere between wishful
thinking and market hype, kinda like cruise speeds in factory brochures.
Without going into a long discussion I'll give you a few GENERAL
guidelines and a couple of examples.
Aluminum airplanes are on the friendly side as far as transfer
percentages goes, lots of flat surfaces as compared to a tubing fuselage
or a window frame.
Transfer % of a conventional type spray gun (worst) will range from
less than 10% (spraying that tube fuselage)to a high of 40-50% while
coating a sheet of alum laying flat on a table. HVLP is somewhat better
, lots of times we got 50-65% on flat parts. Electrostatic will
GENERALLY add 10-20% on flat parts and a lot more on complex shapes.
The above numbers are assuming that the painter is using proper
technique and doesn't increase the air/ fluid pressures after I handed
the gun to him. They ALWAYS did. Small increase in air pressure over
optimal will reduce transfer by as much as 25%. But the painter likes
more noise and recoil and generally they can get away with throwing away
thousands of $$ in material.
I wanted to know how much the weight penalty for powder coating (100%
solids) one of the fuselages for the Legal Eagle I sell was so took a
completed frame to one of my equipment customers and coated it. After
curing it was less than ONE pound difference from uncoated. I know, not
much surface area but still less than I would have thought and that
wasn't my first rodeo doing that test.
I still have all my test stuff ( to measure film thickness)and when I
paint my rudder I'll post some numbers you can take to the bank rather
than try to go in the back door relying on %of solids only. LOW&SLOW
John Bolding
Message 10
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| Subject: | Polished Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
I'm trying to decide on having a painted 601XL or a polished one. I've used
NuVite parts C and S to polish the rudder and it looks terrific but here's
my question to anyone who has a polished aircraft.
Has anyone used a Clear Top Coat (Loehle or any other manufacturer) on
polished aluminum and what has been the long term effects?
Thanks for any info...
Scott Thatcher
601XL with Corvair. Working on Fuselage.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
Yes, my performance numbers are published in the archives. For reference,
I'll reiterate:
Corvair, 164 cubic inch, front start, WW conversion, Elison EFS-3A Carb
Warp Drive Prop, Set to 8.5 degrees
Empty Weight: 777 pounds
Gross Weight: 1320 pounds
Cruise Speed: 125 mph, 3100 rpm, Std atmospheric conditions, gross weight
Fuel Burn: 5.5 gph
Other factors: nose wheel, no wheel pants, no brake line fairings, no
fairing on the steps
Climb: 1200 fpm
This is the first set-up I've tried. I want to put on wheel pants and
fairings this winter, as well as change the prop pitch a little. The climb
performance is overwhelming, but I believe it is robbing me of top end
performance. I am also interested in using an Sensenich wood prop, but I
don't know when that will happen.
Paul,
In order to do a true test you would have to have two similarly equiped
planes under the same conditions. (I thought that was understood, but
perhaps not). So, in the absence of doing a full series of tests, like EAA
publishes frequently, most people accept "bench" tests, like dynamometer
tests to compare horsepower. It is much easier to keep test conditions the
same. If you are unwilling to do the testing yourself (which I would LOVE
to see) you can review William Wynne's comparison to the O-200 on his dyno.
It's is on flycorvair.com.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
>From: craig@craigandjean.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com
>
>There is no need to speculate about the relative in-the-air performance of
>these two engines. Phil Maxson's 601XL/Corvair is flying and I believe he
>has published some performance numbers. Anyone flying behind a 3300 can
>publish their numbers and we can compare. The atmospheric conditions won't
>be identical but they should be close enough for a useful comparison to be
>made.
>
>-- Craig
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Thanks for replying Ben and Tom. I need the height of the assembly as viewed from
the pilot seat. (The length of the aluminum base fitting). The 701 has a Z
stiffener on the firewall that I dont want to mess with. It's structural. I have
8.85 available from the floor up to the inside of the Z. See attached pic (size
335 kb). If I can squeeze them in Id like to fit them. Thanks for your timeGeoff
I'm having a problem attaching my pic but I think you get the idea. The "Z" stiffener
runs left to right at the top of the steering slots.
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51484#51484
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Polished Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Scott:
I spent about 50 hours initially polishing our 601HDS with NuVite but
only about an hour a year after that. I did not clear coat it or do
anything other than wiping the leading edges down with a soaked towel
after each flight. I would follow that with a dry cloth to restore
the gleam. The post-flight wipe down took about 5 minutes each time.
While the aircraft was hangared for the four years we flew it, I was
very impressed with the long-lasting NuVite polish. I would see no
benefit or reason to clear coat it.
The downside to the polish is the decreased visibility it provides.
I plan to paint my 701 so it increases the chances other aircraft
will see me.
Stan
601 HDS (sold)
701 building
On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Scott Thatcher wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Thatcher"
> <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>
> I'm trying to decide on having a painted 601XL or a polished one.
> I've used
> NuVite parts C and S to polish the rudder and it looks terrific but
> here's
> my question to anyone who has a polished aircraft.
>
> Has anyone used a Clear Top Coat (Loehle or any other manufacturer) on
> polished aluminum and what has been the long term effects?
>
> Thanks for any info...
>
> Scott Thatcher
> 601XL with Corvair. Working on Fuselage.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Phil,
Thanks for publishing your numbers.
I couldn't tell if you did your flight testing at gross weight. Is
this the case, or was this testing done with no passenger?
Your climb numbers are better than the ones published for the
Lycoming engine on ZAC's web site, but your cruise speed is somewhat
slower. I presume the numbers on ZAC's site are results of testing
at full gross weight, but I can't be sure that is the case.
It is not surprising that the conversion engine you have might not
perform as well as the Lycoming engine. You quoted your displacement
at 164 cu. in. while the Lycoming displacement is 235 cu. in. This
difference alone is enough to suspect the Lycoming engine might
produce more power.
I am sorry I don't agree with you about bench testing engines being a
valid way to measure their performance. It seems possible to me that
an engine that is poorly integrated in an airplane (as might be at
risk when putting an automobile engine in an airplane) would not
translate bench performance to flight performance. I suspect the
bench testing and particularly the dynamometer testing are designed
to test engines for application in automobiles. Even if the bench
testing were completely valid and appropriate, the issues of engine
weight, installation location with regard to aircraft CG, propeller
choice, and of course aircraft rigging all play into the final
aircraft performance. I agree the bench testing is appropriate to
determine the success of the conversion process, but it is only the
flight performance of the final product that seems appropriate to me
for the purpose of selecting a power plant for a plane.
I agree with you about needing similarly equipped planes for a truly
valid comparison. Rather than one plane with each engine
installation, I would prefer many planes. That way the variations in
each plane could be averaged out.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:59 AM 8/1/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
>
>Yes, my performance numbers are published in the archives. For
>reference, I'll reiterate:
>
>Corvair, 164 cubic inch, front start, WW conversion, Elison EFS-3A Carb
>Warp Drive Prop, Set to 8.5 degrees
>Empty Weight: 777 pounds
>Gross Weight: 1320 pounds
>
>Cruise Speed: 125 mph, 3100 rpm, Std atmospheric conditions, gross weight
>Fuel Burn: 5.5 gph
>Other factors: nose wheel, no wheel pants, no brake line fairings,
>no fairing on the steps
>Climb: 1200 fpm
>
>This is the first set-up I've tried. I want to put on wheel pants
>and fairings this winter, as well as change the prop pitch a
>little. The climb performance is overwhelming, but I believe it is
>robbing me of top end performance. I am also interested in using an
>Sensenich wood prop, but I don't know when that will happen.
>
>Paul,
>
>In order to do a true test you would have to have two similarly
>equiped planes under the same conditions. (I thought that was
>understood, but perhaps not). So, in the absence of doing a full
>series of tests, like EAA publishes frequently, most people accept
>"bench" tests, like dynamometer tests to compare horsepower. It is
>much easier to keep test conditions the same. If you are unwilling
>to do the testing yourself (which I would LOVE to see) you can
>review William Wynne's comparison to the O-200 on his dyno.
>It's is on flycorvair.com.
>
>
>Phil Maxson
>601XL/Corvair
>Northwest New Jersey
>
>
>>From: craig@craigandjean.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL
>>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com
>>
>>There is no need to speculate about the relative in-the-air
>>performance of these two engines. Phil Maxson's 601XL/Corvair is
>>flying and I believe he has published some performance numbers.
>>Anyone flying behind a 3300 can publish their numbers and we can
>>compare. The atmospheric conditions won't be identical but they
>>should be close enough for a useful comparison to be made.
>>
>>-- Craig
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tom Henderson <admin@arachnidrobotics.com>
Paul, I'm afraid you may be disappointed if you're expecting to get
a cruise speed much higher than 125 mph from a Lycoming. Especially
without wheel pants or fairings. Chris designs great little airplanes,
but his numbers are a bit skewed. All of them, in almost every area,
are definitely on the optimistic side (time to build, cruise speed, Load
Factor).
Take some time and check out a few of the builders' web sites for
their numbers. You'll find a few that hit the published numbers, but
only after a fair amount of clean up and fairing.
Tom Henderson
601XL Fuselage in process
Do Not Archive
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Phil,
>
> Thanks for publishing your numbers.
>
> I couldn't tell if you did your flight testing at gross weight. Is
> this the case, or was this testing done with no passenger?
>
> Your climb numbers are better than the ones published for the Lycoming
> engine on ZAC's web site, but your cruise speed is somewhat slower. I
> presume the numbers on ZAC's site are results of testing at full gross
> weight, but I can't be sure that is the case.
>
> It is not surprising that the conversion engine you have might not
> perform as well as the Lycoming engine. You quoted your displacement
> at 164 cu. in. while the Lycoming displacement is 235 cu. in. This
> difference alone is enough to suspect the Lycoming engine might
> produce more power.
>
> I am sorry I don't agree with you about bench testing engines being a
> valid way to measure their performance. It seems possible to me that
> an engine that is poorly integrated in an airplane (as might be at
> risk when putting an automobile engine in an airplane) would not
> translate bench performance to flight performance. I suspect the
> bench testing and particularly the dynamometer testing are designed to
> test engines for application in automobiles. Even if the bench
> testing were completely valid and appropriate, the issues of engine
> weight, installation location with regard to aircraft CG, propeller
> choice, and of course aircraft rigging all play into the final
> aircraft performance. I agree the bench testing is appropriate to
> determine the success of the conversion process, but it is only the
> flight performance of the final product that seems appropriate to me
> for the purpose of selecting a power plant for a plane.
>
> I agree with you about needing similarly equipped planes for a truly
> valid comparison. Rather than one plane with each engine
> installation, I would prefer many planes. That way the variations in
> each plane could be averaged out.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not archive
>
>
> At 06:59 AM 8/1/2006, you wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Yes, my performance numbers are published in the archives. For
>> reference, I'll reiterate:
>>
>> Corvair, 164 cubic inch, front start, WW conversion, Elison EFS-3A Carb
>> Warp Drive Prop, Set to 8.5 degrees
>> Empty Weight: 777 pounds
>> Gross Weight: 1320 pounds
>>
>> Cruise Speed: 125 mph, 3100 rpm, Std atmospheric conditions, gross
>> weight
>> Fuel Burn: 5.5 gph
>> Other factors: nose wheel, no wheel pants, no brake line fairings, no
>> fairing on the steps
>> Climb: 1200 fpm
>>
>> This is the first set-up I've tried. I want to put on wheel pants
>> and fairings this winter, as well as change the prop pitch a little.
>> The climb performance is overwhelming, but I believe it is robbing me
>> of top end performance. I am also interested in using an Sensenich
>> wood prop, but I don't know when that will happen.
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> In order to do a true test you would have to have two similarly
>> equiped planes under the same conditions. (I thought that was
>> understood, but perhaps not). So, in the absence of doing a full
>> series of tests, like EAA publishes frequently, most people accept
>> "bench" tests, like dynamometer tests to compare horsepower. It is
>> much easier to keep test conditions the same. If you are unwilling
>> to do the testing yourself (which I would LOVE to see) you can review
>> William Wynne's comparison to the O-200 on his dyno.
>> It's is on flycorvair.com.
>>
>>
>> Phil Maxson
>> 601XL/Corvair
>> Northwest New Jersey
>>
>>
>>> From: craig@craigandjean.com
>>> Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL
>>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com
>>>
>>> There is no need to speculate about the relative in-the-air
>>> performance of these two engines. Phil Maxson's 601XL/Corvair is
>>> flying and I believe he has published some performance numbers.
>>> Anyone flying behind a 3300 can publish their numbers and we can
>>> compare. The atmospheric conditions won't be identical but they
>>> should be close enough for a useful comparison to be made.
>>>
>>> -- Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Paul Mulwitz
> 32013 NE Dial Road
> Camas, WA 98607
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Polished Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
For those who have been there, would 1/2 lb of Nuvite C and 1/2 lb. of S be
appropriate for a 601? And is there any reasonable alternative to the Cyclo
5 polisher for final finishing?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:00 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>
> Scott:
>
> I spent about 50 hours initially polishing our 601HDS with NuVite but
> only about an hour a year after that. I did not clear coat it or do
> anything other than wiping the leading edges down with a soaked towel
> after each flight. I would follow that with a dry cloth to restore the
> gleam. The post-flight wipe down took about 5 minutes each time.
>
> While the aircraft was hangared for the four years we flew it, I was
> very impressed with the long-lasting NuVite polish. I would see no
> benefit or reason to clear coat it.
>
> The downside to the polish is the decreased visibility it provides. I
> plan to paint my 701 so it increases the chances other aircraft will see
> me.
>
> Stan
> 601 HDS (sold)
> 701 building
Message 17
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| Subject: | Speed & Zeniths: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: TYA2 <tya2@4-fly.net>
There is one thing consistent with Chris Heinz designs. They are
SLOW! I certainly find that the case with CH2000. I have the high
compression 0-235 and this aeroplane is aerodynamic compared to some of his
designs but it is 90 knots at 2600 RPM and 25 litres an hour at that power
setting. I just flew 27 hours going from Nashua NH to NW Alberta so I
have pretty solid data. The CH2000 airplane on the same power as a AA-1
Aircraft is about 10 to 15 mph slower. The fuel consumption of 25 liters
an hour works out to 7.5 gph not the 5.5 gph I was led to believe was the
fuel burn. I can say that cruising at 2300 rpms the airplane won't
maintain altitude.
With the price of avgas at $4.60 US a gallon and $1.60 a litre Canadian,
choice of an engine based upon grade of gas used and fuel flow would be
wise. From being a member of the Jabiru list I can see there have been
issues of over optimism on the power put out by the J2200, certainly engine
owners spent a great deal of time fiddling with the engine. Stuff
lycoming owners weren't required to do. When choosing an engine think
about how you will fly the plane. Short out and returns to home base, or
long cross countries. If you are doing lots of out and return an exotic
engine works. For long cross country flying you won't have the luxury of
prowling junk yards or looking for parts when you break down in Podunk
Nebraska or Armpit Alberta. Sometimes there is a convenience factor in a
factory built aircraft engine. I flew a BD-4 at 170 mph for 1200 hours
all over North America over 17 years. I know what out of town break downs
feel like. The problem was not the engine in the BD-4. It was mickey
mouse tail wheels used a nose wheel and a few other similar such airframe
parts (broken doors requiring welding) because of poorly designed hinges
and latches.
The ability to use auto gas is a cost saver when operating from home base
but the more cross country flying you do will cause you to quickly discover
the unavailability of avfuels other than 100 LL away from home base.
I consider both the Jabiru 3300 and the Corvair to be exotic engines with
limited support away from your home field. I am not saying anything
negative about their performance or constuction just don't expect to walk
into a hanger anywhere and buy parts off the shelf. If you sell your plane
there is the downside of the new owner having a very steep learning curve
to get up to speed on your engine and its operation and maintenance. If
general aviation mechanics are reluctant to work on home built aircraft,
they are even more reluctant to work on exotic engines.
Good luck in your engine choices
Rocky
CH2000
At 08:32 AM 8/1/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tom Henderson <admin@arachnidrobotics.com>
>
> Paul, I'm afraid you may be disappointed if you're expecting to get a
> cruise speed much higher than 125 mph from a Lycoming. Especially
> without wheel pants or fairings. Chris designs great little airplanes,
> but his numbers are a bit skewed. All of them, in almost every area, are
> definitely on the optimistic side (time to build, cruise speed, Load Factor).
> Take some time and check out a few of the builders' web sites for
> their numbers. You'll find a few that hit the published numbers, but
> only after a fair amount of clean up and fairing.
> Tom Henderson
> 601XL Fuselage in process
>
>
>Do Not Archive
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Paint weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
John,
You've put forward good points, and I'm looking forward to your data. I
purchased my paint on the basis of an aircraft having 650 square feet
over all.
This might include a little extra, but I did measure the thickness of
prime and finish coated inspection plates and found .002 to .0025 paint
thickness.
650 square feet x 144 square inches = 93600 square inches x .0025 inch
thickness as worst case and I have 234 cubic inches. There's 231 cubic
inches in a gallon, so one
might have the weight of a gallon of paint on a 601HDS with pants,
fairings and all not counting trim which adds an extra 5 to 10 percent.
I bought two gallons of
base coat, one gallon of trim and a gallon and a half of primer. I'll
have to let you know how accurate it all was by the time I get it done.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS and painting since April..........at
www.macsmachine.com.
John Bolding wrote:
>
> I still have all my test stuff ( to measure film thickness)and when I
> paint my rudder I'll post some numbers you can take to the bank rather
> than try to go in the back door relying on %of solids only.
> LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "don wentz" <dasduck@comcast.net>
Gang,
Rocky and Paul are right, a given airframe will only go so fast. More power
may make a very small difference, but may cost weight, payload, time and
effort, reliability, safety, cost, fuel burn, etc.
I fly an RV-6, 12 years now, and I have seen so many RV builders waste so
much time and money trying to make their RVs faster than the next one. It
just doesn't work - an RV wing is only so fast, no matter what.
The Zenith has qualities that led you to choose it as a project, embrace
those qualities and build a clean, reliable, fun aircraft that will give the
most hours of trouble-free flying that you can get.
Note that this is not a comment on one engine over another, I have NO
experience with any engine other than an O-360 Lycoming. I will say that I
did some non-standard things with my Lyc install that have added cost,
complexity, time, and sometimes less reliable operation. If I were to build
again, I would go block-stock, factory induction, reliability and low
maintenance above all else, because I have seen that high comp pistons,
etc., do not fit in the long-term picture, 'for me'.
BTW - 2 years ago returning from Osh, we stopped at Helena for fuel in our
RVs. As we were taxiing out, we heard one of the Zenith listers call in
from about 25 miles out. He did a much quicker stop and we heard him leave
as well. Because my traveling partner likes to fly at full speed at
altitude, but is so slow at fuel stops (wipe down the airframe, check wx
forever, etc.), I think the Zenith 601 beat us back to Portland that day!
Bottom line, with the price of fuel going up rapidly, I think reliable
economy beats-out top speed most days. Especially when the bulk of our
flying is not 'cross country'.
Of course, if 'experimenting' is high on your list of what your project
goals are, then it may not matter. I'm just offering some advice based on
watching futile top speed chasing for a long time.
Dw
RV-6 1000hrs
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TYA2
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:18 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: TYA2 <tya2@4-fly.net>
There is one thing consistent with Chris Heinz designs. They are
SLOW! I certainly find that the case with CH2000. I have the high
compression 0-235 and this aeroplane is aerodynamic compared to some of his
designs but it is 90 knots at 2600 RPM and 25 litres an hour at that power
setting. I just flew 27 hours going from Nashua NH to NW Alberta so I
have pretty solid data. The CH2000 airplane on the same power as a AA-1
Aircraft is about 10 to 15 mph slower. The fuel consumption of 25 liters
an hour works out to 7.5 gph not the 5.5 gph I was led to believe was the
fuel burn. I can say that cruising at 2300 rpms the airplane won't
maintain altitude.
With the price of avgas at $4.60 US a gallon and $1.60 a litre Canadian,
choice of an engine based upon grade of gas used and fuel flow would be
wise. From being a member of the Jabiru list I can see there have been
issues of over optimism on the power put out by the J2200, certainly engine
owners spent a great deal of time fiddling with the engine. Stuff
lycoming owners weren't required to do. When choosing an engine think
about how you will fly the plane. Short out and returns to home base, or
long cross countries. If you are doing lots of out and return an exotic
engine works. For long cross country flying you won't have the luxury of
prowling junk yards or looking for parts when you break down in Podunk
Nebraska or Armpit Alberta. Sometimes there is a convenience factor in a
factory built aircraft engine. I flew a BD-4 at 170 mph for 1200 hours
all over North America over 17 years. I know what out of town break downs
feel like. The problem was not the engine in the BD-4. It was mickey
mouse tail wheels used a nose wheel and a few other similar such airframe
parts (broken doors requiring welding) because of poorly designed hinges
and latches.
The ability to use auto gas is a cost saver when operating from home base
but the more cross country flying you do will cause you to quickly discover
the unavailability of avfuels other than 100 LL away from home base.
I consider both the Jabiru 3300 and the Corvair to be exotic engines with
limited support away from your home field. I am not saying anything
negative about their performance or constuction just don't expect to walk
into a hanger anywhere and buy parts off the shelf. If you sell your plane
there is the downside of the new owner having a very steep learning curve
to get up to speed on your engine and its operation and maintenance. If
general aviation mechanics are reluctant to work on home built aircraft,
they are even more reluctant to work on exotic engines.
Good luck in your engine choices
Rocky
CH2000
At 08:32 AM 8/1/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tom Henderson
<admin@arachnidrobotics.com>
>
> Paul, I'm afraid you may be disappointed if you're expecting to get a
> cruise speed much higher than 125 mph from a Lycoming. Especially
> without wheel pants or fairings. Chris designs great little airplanes,
> but his numbers are a bit skewed. All of them, in almost every area, are
> definitely on the optimistic side (time to build, cruise speed, Load
Factor).
> Take some time and check out a few of the builders' web sites for
> their numbers. You'll find a few that hit the published numbers, but
> only after a fair amount of clean up and fairing.
> Tom Henderson
> 601XL Fuselage in process
>
>
>Do Not Archive
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Speed & Zeniths |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@n344rb.com>
Very well said.
Randy
XL -Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:57 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "don wentz" <dasduck@comcast.net>
>
> Gang,
> Rocky and Paul are right, a given airframe will only go so fast. More
> power
> may make a very small difference, but may cost weight, payload, time and
> effort, reliability, safety, cost, fuel burn, etc.
>
> I fly an RV-6, 12 years now, and I have seen so many RV builders waste so
> much time and money trying to make their RVs faster than the next one. It
> just doesn't work - an RV wing is only so fast, no matter what.
>
> The Zenith has qualities that led you to choose it as a project, embrace
> those qualities and build a clean, reliable, fun aircraft that will give
> the
> most hours of trouble-free flying that you can get.
>
> Note that this is not a comment on one engine over another, I have NO
> experience with any engine other than an O-360 Lycoming. I will say that
> I
> did some non-standard things with my Lyc install that have added cost,
> complexity, time, and sometimes less reliable operation. If I were to
> build
> again, I would go block-stock, factory induction, reliability and low
> maintenance above all else, because I have seen that high comp pistons,
> etc., do not fit in the long-term picture, 'for me'.
>
> BTW - 2 years ago returning from Osh, we stopped at Helena for fuel in our
> RVs. As we were taxiing out, we heard one of the Zenith listers call in
> from about 25 miles out. He did a much quicker stop and we heard him
> leave
> as well. Because my traveling partner likes to fly at full speed at
> altitude, but is so slow at fuel stops (wipe down the airframe, check wx
> forever, etc.), I think the Zenith 601 beat us back to Portland that day!
>
> Bottom line, with the price of fuel going up rapidly, I think reliable
> economy beats-out top speed most days. Especially when the bulk of our
> flying is not 'cross country'.
>
> Of course, if 'experimenting' is high on your list of what your project
> goals are, then it may not matter. I'm just offering some advice based on
> watching futile top speed chasing for a long time.
> Dw
> RV-6 1000hrs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TYA2
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:18 AM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: TYA2 <tya2@4-fly.net>
>
> There is one thing consistent with Chris Heinz designs. They are
> SLOW! I certainly find that the case with CH2000. I have the high
> compression 0-235 and this aeroplane is aerodynamic compared to some of
> his
> designs but it is 90 knots at 2600 RPM and 25 litres an hour at that power
> setting. I just flew 27 hours going from Nashua NH to NW Alberta so I
> have pretty solid data. The CH2000 airplane on the same power as a AA-1
> Aircraft is about 10 to 15 mph slower. The fuel consumption of 25
> liters
> an hour works out to 7.5 gph not the 5.5 gph I was led to believe was the
> fuel burn. I can say that cruising at 2300 rpms the airplane won't
> maintain altitude.
>
> With the price of avgas at $4.60 US a gallon and $1.60 a litre Canadian,
> choice of an engine based upon grade of gas used and fuel flow would be
> wise. From being a member of the Jabiru list I can see there have been
> issues of over optimism on the power put out by the J2200, certainly
> engine
> owners spent a great deal of time fiddling with the engine. Stuff
> lycoming owners weren't required to do. When choosing an engine think
> about how you will fly the plane. Short out and returns to home base, or
> long cross countries. If you are doing lots of out and return an exotic
> engine works. For long cross country flying you won't have the luxury of
> prowling junk yards or looking for parts when you break down in Podunk
> Nebraska or Armpit Alberta. Sometimes there is a convenience factor in a
> factory built aircraft engine. I flew a BD-4 at 170 mph for 1200 hours
> all over North America over 17 years. I know what out of town break
> downs
> feel like. The problem was not the engine in the BD-4. It was mickey
> mouse tail wheels used a nose wheel and a few other similar such airframe
> parts (broken doors requiring welding) because of poorly designed hinges
> and latches.
>
> The ability to use auto gas is a cost saver when operating from home base
> but the more cross country flying you do will cause you to quickly
> discover
> the unavailability of avfuels other than 100 LL away from home base.
>
> I consider both the Jabiru 3300 and the Corvair to be exotic engines with
> limited support away from your home field. I am not saying anything
> negative about their performance or constuction just don't expect to walk
> into a hanger anywhere and buy parts off the shelf. If you sell your plane
> there is the downside of the new owner having a very steep learning curve
> to get up to speed on your engine and its operation and maintenance. If
> general aviation mechanics are reluctant to work on home built aircraft,
> they are even more reluctant to work on exotic engines.
>
> Good luck in your engine choices
>
> Rocky
> CH2000
>
> At 08:32 AM 8/1/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tom Henderson
> <admin@arachnidrobotics.com>
>>
>> Paul, I'm afraid you may be disappointed if you're expecting to get a
>> cruise speed much higher than 125 mph from a Lycoming. Especially
>> without wheel pants or fairings. Chris designs great little airplanes,
>> but his numbers are a bit skewed. All of them, in almost every area, are
>> definitely on the optimistic side (time to build, cruise speed, Load
> Factor).
>> Take some time and check out a few of the builders' web sites for
>> their numbers. You'll find a few that hit the published numbers, but
>> only after a fair amount of clean up and fairing.
>> Tom Henderson
>> 601XL Fuselage in process
>>
>>
>>Do Not Archive
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Wow! I am truly impressed that anyone could get 1000 hours on an
RV-6. I don't mean any criticism of the RV-6, just the notion that a
home built plane could get that many hours is really something from
my perspective.
I agree that more power doesn't always translate to more speed. I
think it is a matter of how much of the potential speed in the
airframe design you are comparing. While it is tempting to consider
all Zodiacs as the same, this is certainly not true. Different
versions of the Zodiac have considerably different wings and the XL
even has a larger and heavier fuselage. The maximum speed that is
reasonable to expect from each of the different Zodiac models is
quite different.
I do agree that there is a reasonable maximum speed for any
particular model. When you add power after reaching that point you
still get performance increases - just not in the speed arena. I
believe each additional unit of power translates into additional
climb capability as well as a small increase in weight lifting
capability. Of course, additional weight is a real problem when
considering ultimate loading on the airframe so this should not be
considered lightly.
I live in an area surrounded by very large hills and even
mountains. I want my plane to climb well so I don't have to perform
miracles to get over the hills. I would use a much larger plane with
really high performance if not for the fact I don't have a medical
certificate. My current situation limits me to LSA compatible
planes, but that doesn't really limit climb performance.
I believe it is possible to have a plane that has really impressive
climb and cruise performance and still be economical on fuel
consumption. The trick is to control how you fly the plane to get
which ever extreme you want for a particular flight. Fuel economy
can be maximized with good leaning, high cruise altitudes, and low
throttle settings. For the most part, this is true no matter which
engine you have installed.
I have not really considered the issue of engine maintenance at
remote locations. I guess I would like to hear more stories about
this issue. Hopefully, all of these engines are reliable enough that
engine failures that call for immediate maintenance would be rare indeed.
Good luck with your RV-6. I hope it is still going when you hit 2000 hours.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
>Gang,
>Rocky and Paul are right, a given airframe will only go so fast. More power
>may make a very small difference, but may cost weight, payload, time and
>effort, reliability, safety, cost, fuel burn, etc.
>
>I fly an RV-6, 12 years now, and I have seen so many RV builders waste so
>much time and money trying to make their RVs faster than the next one. It
>just doesn't work - an RV wing is only so fast, no matter what.
>
>The Zenith has qualities that led you to choose it as a project, embrace
>those qualities and build a clean, reliable, fun aircraft that will give the
>most hours of trouble-free flying that you can get.
>
>Note that this is not a comment on one engine over another, I have NO
>experience with any engine other than an O-360 Lycoming. I will say that I
>did some non-standard things with my Lyc install that have added cost,
>complexity, time, and sometimes less reliable operation. If I were to build
>again, I would go block-stock, factory induction, reliability and low
>maintenance above all else, because I have seen that high comp pistons,
>etc., do not fit in the long-term picture, 'for me'.
>
>BTW - 2 years ago returning from Osh, we stopped at Helena for fuel in our
>RVs. As we were taxiing out, we heard one of the Zenith listers call in
>from about 25 miles out. He did a much quicker stop and we heard him leave
>as well. Because my traveling partner likes to fly at full speed at
>altitude, but is so slow at fuel stops (wipe down the airframe, check wx
>forever, etc.), I think the Zenith 601 beat us back to Portland that day!
>
>Bottom line, with the price of fuel going up rapidly, I think reliable
>economy beats-out top speed most days. Especially when the bulk of our
>flying is not 'cross country'.
>
>Of course, if 'experimenting' is high on your list of what your project
>goals are, then it may not matter. I'm just offering some advice based on
>watching futile top speed chasing for a long time.
>Dw
>RV-6 1000hrs
-
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Speed & Zeniths: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hey now - I was in Podunk, Nebraska yesterday and they
had a fine assortment of aircraft & automobile parts
AND a welding shop.
Scott(DO NOT ARCHIVE)Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Working on Engine Cowl
--- TYA2 <tya2@4-fly.net> wrote:
...... For long cross country flying you won't have
the luxury of prowling junk yards or looking for parts
when you break down in Podunk Nebraska or
__________________________________________________
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Speed & Zeniths |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi;
I know of 3 CH-601s in Ontario, Cdn that have over 1000 hours. All
Rotax912s.
Mike
UHS Spinners
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Wow! I am truly impressed that anyone could get 1000 hours on an RV-6.
> I don't mean any criticism of the RV-6, just the notion that a home
> built plane could get that many hours is really something from my
> perspective.
>
> I agree that more power doesn't always translate to more speed. I think
> it is a matter of how much of the potential speed in the airframe design
> you are comparing. While it is tempting to consider all Zodiacs as the
> same, this is certainly not true. Different versions of the Zodiac have
> considerably different wings and the XL even has a larger and heavier
> fuselage. The maximum speed that is reasonable to expect from each of
> the different Zodiac models is quite different.
>
> I do agree that there is a reasonable maximum speed for any particular
> model. When you add power after reaching that point you still get
> performance increases - just not in the speed arena. I believe each
> additional unit of power translates into additional climb capability as
> well as a small increase in weight lifting capability. Of course,
> additional weight is a real problem when considering ultimate loading on
> the airframe so this should not be considered lightly.
>
> I live in an area surrounded by very large hills and even mountains. I
> want my plane to climb well so I don't have to perform miracles to get
> over the hills. I would use a much larger plane with really high
> performance if not for the fact I don't have a medical certificate. My
> current situation limits me to LSA compatible planes, but that doesn't
> really limit climb performance.
>
> I believe it is possible to have a plane that has really impressive
> climb and cruise performance and still be economical on fuel
> consumption. The trick is to control how you fly the plane to get which
> ever extreme you want for a particular flight. Fuel economy can be
> maximized with good leaning, high cruise altitudes, and low throttle
> settings. For the most part, this is true no matter which engine you
> have installed.
>
> I have not really considered the issue of engine maintenance at remote
> locations. I guess I would like to hear more stories about this issue.
> Hopefully, all of these engines are reliable enough that engine failures
> that call for immediate maintenance would be rare indeed.
>
> Good luck with your RV-6. I hope it is still going when you hit 2000
> hours.
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>> Gang,
>> Rocky and Paul are right, a given airframe will only go so fast. More
>> power
>> may make a very small difference, but may cost weight, payload, time and
>> effort, reliability, safety, cost, fuel burn, etc.
>>
>> I fly an RV-6, 12 years now, and I have seen so many RV builders waste so
>> much time and money trying to make their RVs faster than the next
>> one. It
>> just doesn't work - an RV wing is only so fast, no matter what.
>>
>> The Zenith has qualities that led you to choose it as a project, embrace
>> those qualities and build a clean, reliable, fun aircraft that will
>> give the
>> most hours of trouble-free flying that you can get.
>>
>> Note that this is not a comment on one engine over another, I have NO
>> experience with any engine other than an O-360 Lycoming. I will say
>> that I
>> did some non-standard things with my Lyc install that have added cost,
>> complexity, time, and sometimes less reliable operation. If I were to
>> build
>> again, I would go block-stock, factory induction, reliability and low
>> maintenance above all else, because I have seen that high comp pistons,
>> etc., do not fit in the long-term picture, 'for me'.
>>
>> BTW - 2 years ago returning from Osh, we stopped at Helena for fuel in
>> our
>> RVs. As we were taxiing out, we heard one of the Zenith listers call in
>> from about 25 miles out. He did a much quicker stop and we heard him
>> leave
>> as well. Because my traveling partner likes to fly at full speed at
>> altitude, but is so slow at fuel stops (wipe down the airframe, check wx
>> forever, etc.), I think the Zenith 601 beat us back to Portland that day!
>>
>> Bottom line, with the price of fuel going up rapidly, I think reliable
>> economy beats-out top speed most days. Especially when the bulk of our
>> flying is not 'cross country'.
>>
>> Of course, if 'experimenting' is high on your list of what your project
>> goals are, then it may not matter. I'm just offering some advice
>> based on
>> watching futile top speed chasing for a long time.
>> Dw
>> RV-6 1000hrs
>
>
> -
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
I've only found one spot in the flycorvair.com site that quotes a speed on WW's
601XL. Here's the quote:
> Straight and level, the plane did 130mph at 23" MAP and 2700rpm. This is a low
cruise power setting. Keep in mind, the plane has 6x6 tires, no gear leg fairings,
no wheel pants, etc.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51568#51568
Message 25
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Who can tell me what the actual height of the vertical fin is on with
the plane on it's landing gear? Trying to figure out if it will fit in
the shop.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Tail Height |
According to the Zenith web site, the hight is ten feet even.
On Aug 1, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Dave Ruddiman wrote:
> Who can tell me what the actual height of the vertical fin is on
> with the plane on it's landing gear? Trying to figure out if it
> will fit in the shop.
>
> Dave in Salem
> 801
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Tail Height |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
But if you put a really nice coat of paint on it, the tail will sag lower under
the immense weight.
Ed Moody II
Do Not Archive
---- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
> According to the Zenith web site, the hight is ten feet even.
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Dave Ruddiman wrote:
>
> > Who can tell me what the actual height of the vertical fin is on
> > with the plane on it's landing gear?> > Dave in Salem
> > 801
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Tail Height |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
What position is she to assume for the measurement?
Or maybe I mis-read that...should it have been TALE height?
There HAVE been some tales associated with this List, ScotchBrites among the Top
Ten Most Abused.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
A cheery day to all......and it is STILL 100 degrees F in north Texas!
Zed
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
The cringe factor comes from the bad rap given home builders because of an incautious
few. The guy who popped in the Subaru engine from his car he crashed last
year, for example. It makes the rest look bad ... like their all crazy and
out to kill everyone (because many inevitably crash).
I've seen some Honda conversions, for example, with a backup fuel pump, and dual
electronic ignition ... but only one set of plugs and one carb and no track
record running 100LL. The engine was modified to provide some amount of added
safety, which goes part way toward making it a "real" aircraft engine. This engine
needed more development, in my opinion ... not something I'd fly. I'm glad
there is a distributor behind the product working to improve it to the point
that someone like me might buy it.
On the other hand, I've seen Subaru conversions proven on 100LL, with dual ignition,
dual set of plugs, dual carbs, carb heat, double accessory belts and a backup
fuel pump. It was a kit from a reputable distributor who took the time to
test every component and provide good support (according to the owner of the
aircraft who built both engine and airplane). That's a setup I'd fly and have
some faith in.
Aviation has a long track record of safety and redundancy that aught not be thrown
out the window because we're "experimenting" with new engines. I think it's
great to experiment, actually ... but I cringe to see engines with no redundancy
for no better reason than time and bucks. If you're going to do it, do it
right or don't do it at all.
leinad(at)direcway.com wrote:
> Do you cringe when ever you hear about the in-flight failure of 30,000 dollar
Lycoming? Do you think this doesn't happen? A while back there was a rash of
broken cranks on O-360s. As I recall it forced a recall.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51607#51607
Message 31
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| Subject: | Where's Ben Hass. Ref boots for 701 steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
I just received a set of the Yamaha boots for use on my 601XL. The ouside
dimensions of the flange are 164mm high by 105mm wide. Inside the boot,
131mm by 66mm. On my 601XL they will fit OK except that the slots, at 144mm
long, are longer that the vertical boot opening. So, if the maximum
vertical travel of the steering rods in the slots requires the full 144mm
they won't work. Does anyone who has assembled the 601XL nose gear know how
much travel range is actually required? The boots and flanges which are
Yamaha #8CR-2198F-00 and 8CR-2195E-00 I got from StadiumYamaha.com for
$61.23 total shipped for the two sets.
Robin Bellach, Jasper, AR
601XL Zen-Vair, working on fuse
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:49 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
>
> I'm looking for Ben Haas formerly at Benford2@aol.com or anyone who has
> fitted Yamaha part # 8CR2195e to their steering rods.
> I have a question regarding the dimensions of the assy. They may or may
> not fit a 701. His photo in the archive looks like it may be a 601.
> Thanks....Geoff
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Engine for 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, David X wrote:
> I've seen some Honda conversions, for example, with a backup fuel pump,
> and dual electronic ignition ... but only one set of plugs and one carb
> and no track record running 100LL.
Other than the rotax, I can't think of any aircraft engine (not a
converted auto engines) that has more than one carb. Certainly, all of
the continentals and lycomings I've flown only had one.
> Aviation has a long track record of safety and redundancy that aught not
> be thrown out the window because we're "experimenting" with new engines.
True, however, I can't help but think that some of our saftey practices
are just there to make us feel good. For example: Safety wiring. We are
very careful to always safety wire our oil filters, yet we never safety
wire oure oil lines. Why would an oil filter loosen up any more than an
oil line?
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive 601 Step designs? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Gig:
I designed and installed an alternative step installation on my 601HD.
Contact me off list with the location of your access door cutout to see if
what I did might work for you. My step installation added 0.44lbs.
Another 601 HDS builder used the steps from an RV-6 for a similar
installation. The RV steps are made from streamline tubing and are swept
aft somewhat.
George
Do not archive
-- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:14 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
> Has anyone come up with an alternitive design for the entry step that
doesn't have the bar that goes under the fuselage?
>
> When I installed my bottom access door I mis-read the plans and installed
it further forward than I was supposed to. While this doesn't stop me from
using the original step design it does make fairing it somewhat more
complex.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51462#51462
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
For anyone trying to thumbnail the CG on an unpainted 601XL, you should plan to
put the CG a little more forward of where you want it to ultimately be when the
aircraft is painted and trimmed. It sounds trivial, but it's not all that trivial
on this particular aircraft.
As far as calculators to figure out your W&B ... by all means use one to test my
math, please! The advantage of the spreadsheet, however, is that you can see
the entire range of CG throughout the entire fuel burn ... not just one slice
in a point in time for a particular scenario.
Most aircraft will stay in CG range throughout the flight so long as you start
below gross and are in CG range at the beginning of the flight. This is not true
of the Zodiac using the stock mount from Zenair for the 912S (unless they changed
it since).
This is how I discovered that it is possible to take off in the 601XL at max gross
with two big guys, half tanks and end up too far rear of CG after just 30
minutes of flight. This prompted me to move my engine forward 4 inches, even though
it meant reworking all the wiring and hoses and throttle cable and cowling
etc.
So maybe I don't know jack shine about the weight of paint ... but I've learned
more than I care to know about the W&B on the 601XL using the stock 912S motor
mount from Zenair.
gboothe(at)calply.com wrote:
> Don't be offended. If your every word was not dissected and examined you would
think you posted to the wrong list. I'm sure the silent majority will find your
spreadsheet quite useful, as is. I do.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51619#51619
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Tachometer Problems |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
That was it ... a busted ground wire. Thank you for the helpful replies.
Float Flyr wrote:
> It sure sounds like the effects of a wire chafing on a ground somewhere.
NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
> There are two wires from the tach pickup coil. One of them should be grounded
and the other goes to your tach input. You can disconnect both at the connector
on your engine and connect your voltmeter to both leads to check ...
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51625#51625
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G |
Hi Listers,
Just an uninformed question on this issue;
Given that most people are going to spray the entire aircraft, would
this not spread the weight of the paint uniformly across the entire
structure rather then just adding load to the tail plane ?
I'd love to here people's thoughts on this as I am contemplating the
whole painting thing at the moment.
Best Regards,
Eddie Seve
Zodiac XL
Working on the front fuselage
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Height? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
What ever position she wants.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:50 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> What position is she to assume for the measurement?
>
> Or maybe I mis-read that...should it have been TALE height?
>
> There HAVE been some tales associated with this List, ScotchBrites among
> the Top Ten Most Abused.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> A cheery day to all......and it is STILL 100 degrees F in north Texas!
>
> Zed
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G |
Call me dull, but I think the un-asked question that Eddie (below) is
asking
is, =93What difference does it make whether you paint or not? Paint is
part
of the =93empty weight=94.=94
I haven=92t followed this entire string about the weight of paint
whether wet
or dry.
You finish your plane and weigh it.
If you paint it after doing wt & balance, you then need to re-weigh it.
It doesn=92t matter if you coat your plane with =BD=94 of lead, it=92s
still part of
the =93empty weight.=94
Though a thoughtful discussion of the weight of paint as it affects
performance (gross weight) might be somewhat useful if you=92re planning
on
racing at Reno, for our purposes it only comes into play at the initial
weighing for wt & balance.
Most of us will probably add more weight to our planes just by
installing
aileron trim, or an extra battery, or landing lights, or CD player, or
25ga
skin vs. 16ga. =85
I say, =93Paint away!=94 =85.or not.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Hi Listers,
Just an uninformed question on this issue;
Given that most people are going to spray the entire aircraft, would
this
not spread the weight of the paint uniformly across the entire structure
rather then just adding load to the tail plane ?
I=92d love to here people=92s thoughts on this as I am contemplating the
whole
painting thing at the moment.
Best Regards,
Eddie Seve
Zodiac XL
Working on the front fuselage
Message 39
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| Subject: | Polished Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
I polished my plane with Nuvite in April and it's been outside since. It
has no clear coating on it. My understanding is that paint (or clear coat)
doesn't stick well to slick, shiny surfaces, so I wonder how long it would
last. Apparently, birds are mightily attracted to because they love to crap
on and corrode the surface. I think the finish will look OK through the
season looking ok, and I'll have to polish it each winter. We'll see.
Just a little tip I learned from Bill Clapp who painted my plane (and
finished the polishing): start with 1000 grit sand paper, and wet sand it.
Follow up with 1500 grit wet sanding, and then start on the Nuvite C and S.
This will go a LOT faster unless your 6061 is very shiny to start with.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
>From: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Polished Aluminum
>Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:38:55 -0400
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Thatcher"
><s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>
>I'm trying to decide on having a painted 601XL or a polished one. I've used
>NuVite parts C and S to polish the rudder and it looks terrific but here's
>my question to anyone who has a polished aircraft.
>
>Has anyone used a Clear Top Coat (Loehle or any other manufacturer) on
>polished aluminum and what has been the long term effects?
>
>Thanks for any info...
>
>Scott Thatcher
>601XL with Corvair. Working on Fuselage.
Message 40
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| Subject: | : Weight of paint affecting the C of G |
Eddie:
Seems to me that you might be missing the fact that the surface area
behind the CG may be not only larger than in front, but that a lot of
that area is farther from the CG. Probably someone has actually
calculated this, but if it's been posted I missed it.
Robin
N601ZV, planning no paint except trim
----- Original Message -----
From: Eddie Seve
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G
Hi Listers,
Just an uninformed question on this issue;
Given that most people are going to spray the entire aircraft, would
this not spread the weight of the paint uniformly across the entire
structure rather then just adding load to the tail plane ?
I'd love to here people's thoughts on this as I am contemplating the
whole painting thing at the moment.
Best Regards,
Eddie Seve
Zodiac XL
Working on the front fuselage
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G |
<<<<< I say, " =1C"Paint away!=9D .or not. >>>>>>>
AMEN!!!!!
Message 42
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| Subject: | EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2006 (Or just plain Oshkosh to |
most of us)
Mark,
I enjoyed the dinner format as it was. If possible, it might be
interesting to have a builder do a builder's report, especially if their
project was unique for some reason. Clearly, that would have to be arranged
in advance with the builder. On the flight line not far from the ZAC
display, I did notice that the Sonex community had a Builder's Hangout
"building" on the flight line immediately adjacent to a row of parked Sonex
aircraft. It just called their builders over to sit down, look at the
planes that flew in, and do some hangar flyin'. It was there the entire
week. I liked that idea. They might even have had drinks available.
Jeff Davidson
do not archive
_____
<snip>
Hello All, for those of you who were at the builders dinner, how did you
like the format? Would you like to see something added? Also, once again I
would like to Thank John Hinde's at www.johnsplane.com
<http://www.johnsplane.com/> for his production of the Builders dinner meal
movie.
Mark Townsend
<snip>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/28/2006
--
7/28/2006
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Tail Height |
My 801 is 10' 2 1/2"
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net> wrote:
Who can tell me what the actual height of the vertical fin is on with th
e plane on it's landing gear? Trying to figure out if it will fit in the
shop. Dave in Salem 801
<html>My 801 is 10' 2 1/2"<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haa
spowerair.com<BR><BR>-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainti
ng@comcast.net> wrote:<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Who can tell me what the actual height
of the vertical fin is on with the plane on it's landing gear? Trying to
figure out if it will fit in the shop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave in Salem </FONT>
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>801</FONT></DIV></html>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Stainless steel rivets |
Ok guys and girls.
All this talk about stainless steel firewall and rivets got me to look again
at the plans.. In my XL kit is a pack of AS 5 stainless steel rivets( 23) but
for the life of me I cant see where they go into .. Can some one give me a hine..??
ie plans page??
Chris
Down Under..
---------------------------------
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Polished Aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@core.com>
Robin,
I did my polishing with a 6 inch right angle buffer from Sears, I have
found on "secret" when using Nuvite. If the aluminum is older and the
surface dull take a piece of paper towel and wipe the surface to be
polished with mineral spirits (paint thinner). The Nuvite especially the
course F8 will spread like cream. The difference between doing the
aluminum dry and with the mineral spirits is like day and night.
Tim Shankland
Robin Bellach wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
>
> For those who have been there, would 1/2 lb of Nuvite C and 1/2 lb. of
> S be appropriate for a 601? And is there any reasonable alternative to
> the Cyclo 5 polisher for final finishing?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:00 AM
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>>
>> Scott:
>>
>> I spent about 50 hours initially polishing our 601HDS with NuVite but
>> only about an hour a year after that. I did not clear coat it or do
>> anything other than wiping the leading edges down with a soaked towel
>> after each flight. I would follow that with a dry cloth to restore
>> the gleam. The post-flight wipe down took about 5 minutes each time.
>>
>> While the aircraft was hangared for the four years we flew it, I was
>> very impressed with the long-lasting NuVite polish. I would see no
>> benefit or reason to clear coat it.
>>
>> The downside to the polish is the decreased visibility it provides.
>> I plan to paint my 701 so it increases the chances other aircraft
>> will see me.
>>
>> Stan
>> 601 HDS (sold)
>> 701 building
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Stainless steel rivets |
I recall a few of them for the rudder pedals, if that helps.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris sinfield
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:10 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Stainless steel rivets
Ok guys and girls.
All this talk about stainless steel firewall and rivets got me to look
again at the plans.. In my XL kit is a pack of AS 5 stainless steel
rivets( 23) but for the life of me I cant see where they go into .. Can
some one give me a hine..?? ie plans page??
Chris
Down Under..
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Stainless steel rivets |
Chris, There are stainless steel rivets to attach the brake pedals to the
rudder pedals and two in the elevator control horn assembly (in the "strap" that
goes over the top, down the aft "notch" and over the bottom).
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Do not archive
Message 48
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Stared unwrapping my wing kit and found a dented tank. I think the
shipper did it but I can't really prove it.
Should I take a rubber hammer to it and then check for leaks, leave it
alone, or? Any ideas would be helpful. I'm not up on this picture thing.
I hope this is the right size or I'm ducking for cover. Here it comes.
Dave in Salem
801 (with a dented tank)
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Tachometer Problems |
David,
Glad that you found and solved the problem
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 8/1/2006 7:10:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dxj@comcast.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
That was it ... a busted ground wire. Thank you for the helpful replies.
Float Flyr wrote:
> It sure sounds like the effects of a wire chafing on a ground somewhere.
NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
> There are two wires from the tach pickup coil. One of them should be
grounded and the other goes to your tach input. You can disconnect both at the
connector on your engine and connect your voltmeter to both leads to check ...
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51625#51625
Message 50
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| Subject: | Corvair Flight Engine for Sale |
Gentlemen,
Well, Today, My house re-finance funded. After adding up the financial
obligations that must be paid with it, I will not have enough left over to
purchase my 601XL kit. I don't want to get started with partial kits and run
out of money later. That would be worse than not starting at all.
I like to compare relationships to the weather. My wife & I have had a few
storms lately. We now have blue skies but there is still "trash in the yard"
to clean up. If I did get the airplane kit, I would be even more isolated
out here in my shop. That would just "put wood on the fire". Apryl is
afraid of flying and I would guess that she would never fly in a plane that
I built. I can understand that. Why should I spend 5 to 6 years and many $
on a project that I cannot share with my wife after it's finished?
With this in mind, I am considering what to do with my Corvair engine core.
I have an RH case with 3878566 heads and a 8409 crank.
I have purchased and received a William Wynne oil pan & install kit, safety
shaft and hybrid studs. Still on back order from William are: modified
nitrided crank shaft, distributor, oil accessory case and valve covers. They
are on back order because I told William to put me on the bottom of the list
and service the other guys that are closer to flying first. The core engine
is disassembled and partially cleaned. I have cut out and started to finish
the front cover.
My intention is to sell what I have. I will require the buyer to have
purchased William Wynne's manual. I will also include my Chevy "green book",
parts and price spreadsheet and other assorted documentation that I have
accumulated.
I want it to go to a good home. Best case scenario would be someone here in
Southern California.
I am also interested in building the engine with the buyer if they live
close enough. Just for the experience, no partnership or anything like that
in mind. (Maybe a ride in the fished plane)
The price is negotiable and will be very fair. I will make pictures
available if requested.
I plan to wait a month or so before I E-Bay it.
If you have anyone in mind, Please contact me off list.
Someday perhaps my situation will change and I will be able to pursue my
life long dream of flying a machine that I built with my own hands.
I have greatly enjoyed this list and will continue to read it for now.
Tomorrow, My wife & I will start building some furniture, TOGETHER.
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
Do not archive
Message 51
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Dave,
Try and get insurance to cover and Zenith to send a new one at no charge.
Good luck though!
I got a damaged part from them 16 months ago and have received no
satisfaction - even though I paid extra for insurance and have offered to
take other needed (and less expensive items) in exhcange. Almost no answer
or anything from Zenith - especially Subastian. He answered one email
because I "threatened" to let others know how Zenith was NOT handling this
issue. His answer berated me for "threatening" to expose him and Zenith.
I did learn to make sure my name is on the insurance if you pay extra for
it, not the shipper.
Bottom line, make an effort with Zenith. When and if they do not reply with
any satisfaction, try to fix the tank you have and good luck.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 52
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Dave,
The picture looks small enough to me although I have a high speed
server and the Telephone modem folks might think it's too large.
As for the dented tank, the people that shipped it to you should be
notified first I would think just to see what they are willing to do
about it. They may ask you to return it to them at their expense and
provide you with a replacement then deal with the shipper themselves
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Now What?
Stared unwrapping my wing kit and found a dented tank. I think the
shipper did it but I can't really prove it.
Should I take a rubber hammer to it and then check for leaks, leave it
alone, or? Any ideas would be helpful. I'm not up on this picture thing.
I hope this is the right size or I'm ducking for cover. Here it comes.
Dave in Salem
801 (with a dented tank)
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 vs. Corvair in a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
It is also a tail-dragger.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:51 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
I've only found one spot in the flycorvair.com site that quotes a speed on
WW's 601XL. Here's the quote:
> Straight and level, the plane did 130mph at 23" MAP and 2700rpm. This is a
low cruise power setting. Keep in mind, the plane has 6x6 tires, no gear leg
fairings, no wheel pants, etc.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51568#51568
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of paint affecting the C of G |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
I confess that I started this thread about paint ... and boy am I sorry I did.
Some people just love to argue.
Yes, it affects CG ... but PAINT IT! :lol:
601zv(at)ritternet.com wrote:
> Eddie: Seems to me that you might be missing the fact that0 the surface area
behind the CG may be not only larger than in front, but that a0 lot of that area
is farther from the CG. Probably someone has actually0 calculated this, but
if it's been posted I missed it.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51695#51695
Message 55
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Bob,
I sent ZAC an email and the same picture I posted here. I don't really
expect anything, but, who knows.
I'll wait and see what happens, then probably take it to a friend who is
a metal expert and let him pound on it. It's an outboard auxiliary tank
that may not get used much, and the dent probably will be negligible on
the fuel, but I hate having something that is brand new get screwed up
before I even use it. Thanks for the replies from everyone.
Dave in Salem
801 with the dented tank
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Now What?
Dave,
The picture looks small enough to me although I have a high speed
server and the Telephone modem folks might think it's too large.
As for the dented tank, the people that shipped it to you should
be notified first I would think just to see what they are willing to do
about it. They may ask you to return it to them at their expense and
provide you with a replacement then deal with the shipper themselves
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
Zodiac XL (Not too far along)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Now What?
Stared unwrapping my wing kit and found a dented tank. I think the
shipper did it but I can't really prove it.
Should I take a rubber hammer to it and then check for leaks, leave
it alone, or? Any ideas would be helpful. I'm not up on this picture
thing. I hope this is the right size or I'm ducking for cover. Here it
comes.
Dave in Salem
801 (with a dented tank)
Message 56
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| Subject: | 701 Seat Belt Bracket |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
When I position my seat belt bracket (7F16-3) on the center tunnel,
it appears higher than the picture shown in the assembly guide. I've
measured everything several times and the bolt is 180mm from the
floor (just as the side bracket 7F16-2). Did anyone else notice
this? My central seat belt attachment will be just below the top of
the runnel if I mount it where I think it should be located. I've
sent off an email to Zenith with pictures, but I think they may be
behind due to Oshkosh.
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
All Airfoils complete,
Finishing forward fuselage
From complete kit
Message 57
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
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Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 58
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
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