Zenith-List Digest Archive

Thu 08/17/06


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 10:38 AM - Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (crvsecretary@aol.com)
     2. 12:46 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (LarryMcFarland)
     3. 12:48 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Paul Mulwitz)
     4. 01:40 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Clyde Barcus)
     5. 01:59 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Gig Giacona)
     6. 02:16 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (raymondj)
     7. 03:48 PM - Re: When Can I rivet 701 Front to Rear Fuse? (Tommy Walker)
     8. 05:45 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Ron Lendon)
     9. 05:57 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Dave Ruddiman)
    10. 09:42 PM - 701 First Flight (MElrod3732@aol.com)
    11. 09:50 PM - nylon brake lines - mine broke (xl)
    12. 10:17 PM - Re: nylon brake lines - mine broke (Paul Mulwitz)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 10:38:03 AM PST US
    From: crvsecretary@aol.com
    Subject: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    Hello Listers: I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list. I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and, discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came out looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff sticks to these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep. So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from Harbor Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a fresh-air breathing system? Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited equipment I am using? All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing. Thanks Again. Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT N458XL reserved working on wings ________________________________________________________________________


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:46:51 PM PST US
    From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
    Subject: Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> Tracy, The organic charcoal filter's limited by atmospheric overload. Moving the air helps, but to be safe, you should consider making up a fresh air system from a small vacuum. Shouldn't cost you more than $30 for the hood and the use of a small clean vacuum. I got exposed when I failed to turn on my fans in the booth. The low pressure air system became a necessity to continue. I spent about $150 in all for the whole system with extra hose. If you're interested, try the paint page on my site at www.macsmachine.com. See link, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/paint/full/low-pressure-air-system.gif If you have questions, just ask Larry McFarland - 601HDS crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: > Hello Listers: > > I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now > and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some > advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list. > > I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much > deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the > interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and, > discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came out > looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff sticks to > these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep. > > So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I > cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to > use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from > Harbor Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a > fresh-air breathing system? > > Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited > equipment I am using? > > All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground > to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing. > > Thanks Again. > > Regards, > > Tracy Smith > Naugatuck, CT > N458XL reserved > working on wings > >* > >* >


    Message 3


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    Time: 12:48:06 PM PST US
    From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
    Subject: Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    Hi Tracy, I won't claim expertise on this subject, but I did do professional spray painting for a while and survived. I think the most important issues are: What solvents are used in your paint; and are you taking sufficient precautions so that you aren't breathing the solvents. I don't know if the paint you are using is intended to stick to oxidized aluminum. Most of the stuff I have seen recommends treating the aluminum with something to get rid of the oxide layer that forms almost instantly when aluminum is exposed to air. Alodine is one such treatment, but I believe there are many other ones. Another thing I have heard of is etching primers. I would talk to the paint manufacturer or distributor about this issue. On the safety issue, the professional carbon cartridge mask should serve you well if you are also taking precautions to get the majority of fumes to flow away from you. This is usually done with a "Paint Booth" that forces air flow out one end of the booth. If you don't have one of these booths set up, you need to be sure the wind is blowing away from you. I would recommend you wear full coverage clothing and use good rubber gloves while handling paint and related stuff. In general, you don't want to get any on you. I understand it is important to change the cartridges often in you mask. If you smell anything with the mask on, it is not working correctly. I hope these comments help a little. I would still recommend you talk to your suppliers and read the MSDS for the material you are using. I don't know what HVLP systems do for your paint application process, but I am quite sure there is not a safety difference between these guns and standard ones. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 10:36 AM 8/17/2006, you wrote: >Hello Listers: > >I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now >and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some >advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list. > >I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much >deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the >interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and, >discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came >out looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff >sticks to these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep. > >So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator >I cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I >continue to use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray >gun from Harbor Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I >really need a fresh-air breathing system? > >Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited >equipment I am using? > >All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has >ground to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing. > >Thanks Again. > >Regards, > >Tracy Smith >Naugatuck, CT >N458XL reserved >working on wings > >---------- > > -


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:40:14 PM PST US
    From: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety Hi Tracy, I am not an expert, however I spoke with the local paint supply house and followed their recommendations. After using cortec and other primers recommended in the plans, I noticed it did not adhere all that well. I discussed my problem with the local supply house and I bought the charcoal filter they recommended along with Dupont Etch Primer, A-4115s, I applied the primer after wiping the surface with acetone, it really adheres a lot better. I spray the parts, open the garage door (if it is warm enough) and I take off the mask and take a break for a while until the smell is basically gone. It only takes a few minutes to spray everything so exposure is very limited. Clyde 601XL Hello Listers: I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list. Thanks Again. Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT N458XL reserved working on wings ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -


    Message 5


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    Time: 01:59:55 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net> Read the Materiel Safety Data Sheets on the product. -------- W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55354#55354


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:16:28 PM PST US
    From: "raymondj" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    Tracy, Found this page while I was surfing around. Hope it's useful. http://www.geocities.com/snjdrvr/air_supply.html Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN 1 Corvair core acquired, seeking more. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:37 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety Hello Listers: I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list. I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and, discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came out looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff sticks to these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep. So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from Harbor Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a fresh-air breathing system? Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited equipment I am using? All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing. Thanks Again. Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT N458XL reserved working on wings ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:48:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: When Can I rivet 701 Front to Rear Fuse?
    From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net> Doug, If I remember correctly, the plans state that you can connect everything, but don't drill the two holes in the firewall where the upper arm on the motor mount will attach until you have the mount on the firewall. I think this is stated in the photo guide. If I remember correctly, there are three different degrees of angle that you will be working with. Good Luck, Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive doug kandle wrote: > I have completed jigging the front to rear fuselage on my 701. I have ordered the "new" firewall forward kit from ZAC but they say it won't ship until sometime in September. Therefore I can't bolt the cabin frame to the firewall. > > I plan to move on to the next step that would follow section 11 (instrument plane) as I don't want to attach anything to the firewall until I have the engine mounts bolted to it. > > My question is this: is it OK to go ahead and rivet up the front to rear fuselage at this point? The assembly guide shows clecos still in the fuselage while they put together the front sides and instrument panel. But I would like to rivet up the fuse and go on to the controls and main gear. > > Does anyone see any problem with this? -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55365#55365


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:45:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net> I have been using the Dupont VeriPrime 615S and have found for my case, only priming the mating surfaces I use a 1" bristle brush. I have a fan blowing the vapors away and out of the garage. I only mix up very small batches. I tried using the HF air brush but it really was taking longer and making a mess. This was done in a paint booth. Surface prep is with ScotchBrite 7447B then a wipe down with Lacquer Thinner. It sticks real good after I let it dry for a day. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55382#55382


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:57:08 PM PST US
    From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
    Tracy, I don't usually respond to these discussions. You will get almost as many opinions as there are people out there. Take what makes sense to you and delete the rest. I'm a painting contractor. Mostly commercial buildings. I've done this for close to 35 years and I'm not dead or incapacitated. I have read all the posts today on the subject of painting. I think everyone of them has valid points. People react differently to exposure to paint or chemicals. I spray everything outside of the shop whenever I can. When winter comes I will probably do the same under cover, out of the rain, then bring the parts inside to dry. It keeps the shop cleaner and the overspray off of everything. I use an HVLP because it's easy, cuts down on the overspray and the material used. When I'm outside I don't always wear a mask if I can stay upwind. The "right " thing to do would be to use a good quality twin cartridge respirator. There are cartridges for specific products you spray. Also when you are done spraying for the day, put it back in the plastic bag it comes in. They last longer. The bottom line is, I wouldn't let my little girl be exposed to the same things I have. I'm probably lucky being exposed to all the chemicals and paints I have. Some haven't been. I'm uhhhh still fairly normal. What? Sometimes the voices tell me what to do, but I don't listen anymore. I seem to have an airplane building obsession that won't go away. Good Luck. Be careful and follow the directions. The manufacturers really know what they are talking about. Daaave in SSSSSSSSSSalem. 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: crvsecretary@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:36 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety Hello Listers: I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list. I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and, discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came out looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff sticks to these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep. So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from Harbor Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a fresh-air breathing system? Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited equipment I am using? All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing. Thanks Again. Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT N458XL reserved working on wings ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:42:54 PM PST US
    From: MElrod3732@aol.com
    Subject: 701 First Flight
    The first flight of N727EP, a 701 on amphib floats & a Rotax 912S, occurred 2 days ago at Linden-Prices airport ( 10 miles south of Flint, MI ). The plane performed & handled great, however I did run out of "UP" elevator trim. After an hour flight, I returned for an uneventful landing. I adjusted the elevator trim tab twice to the point where it is almost 90 degrees to the elevator at full travel and I still run out of "UP" trim during slower speeds. I am wondering whether an adjustment to the horizontal stab might help? Thanks again to everyone that has answered my question & offered building advice during the last 2 1/2 years. Happy building, Mike Elrod


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:50:04 PM PST US
    From: xl <xl@prosody.org>
    Subject: nylon brake lines - mine broke
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org> As I reported, my nylon brake line broke on the way to Abbotsford, BC. The attachments gave way and allowed the line to flex in the airstream. In the field we took the fitting apart and reinstalled the existing line. I noted that the line was crazed. I'm using the 'flexible nylon tubing' supplied by Zenith Aircraft. Back at BFI I replaced the brake line that was under the wing. I think that it was UV that did the damage. The brake line that I removed was brittle in spots and easily snapped. Here is a quote from Aircraft Spruce: 'Nylo-Seal type "NNR" semi-rigid natural color tubing is made of Nylon-II and is far superior to other types of Nylon tubing. It does not depend on moisture for flexibility and does not become brittle. It has excellent resistance to flexural fatigue and can be used where there is vibration or tube movement.' Matbe what I have is not Nylon-II. I'll still use nylon because it is easy to work with. But I'll replace the exposed line every two years. 633Z has been outside since November 2003. The brake line inside the airframe doesn't appear to be crazed. But, I figure it will age too. I could still taxi without the right brake. When I applied the left brake I needed lots of 'right rudder'. Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XL 379 hours


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:17:26 PM PST US
    From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
    Subject: Re: nylon brake lines - mine broke
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> It sounds like your plastic brake line is being attacked by ultra-violet light. This is a common problem with most plastics. I am not sure about the nylon, but nearly all plastic formulations are attacked by sunlight and particularly the UV portion of sunlight. If you insist on using plastic in sunlight environments, it might help to paint it white. This may reflect some of the damaging radiation. Paul XL fuselage do not archive >But I'll replace the exposed line every two years. >633Z has been outside since November 2003. >The brake line inside the airframe doesn't appear to be crazed.




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