Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:38 AM - Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (crvsecretary@aol.com)
2. 12:46 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (LarryMcFarland)
3. 12:48 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 01:40 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Clyde Barcus)
5. 01:59 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Gig Giacona)
6. 02:16 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (raymondj)
7. 03:48 PM - Re: When Can I rivet 701 Front to Rear Fuse? (Tommy Walker)
8. 05:45 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Ron Lendon)
9. 05:57 PM - Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety (Dave Ruddiman)
10. 09:42 PM - 701 First Flight (MElrod3732@aol.com)
11. 09:50 PM - nylon brake lines - mine broke (xl)
12. 10:17 PM - Re: nylon brake lines - mine broke (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
Hello Listers:
I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now and I rarely
ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise from the collection
of experts that contribute to this list.
I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much deliberation
and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the interior of the wings
on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and, discounting a few runs that no one
will ever see, everything came out looking good. I am VERY impressed with
the way this stuff sticks to these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep.
So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I cannot help
but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to use this stuff.
I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from Harbor Freight, but it is NOT
an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a fresh-air breathing system?
Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited equipment I am
using?
All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground to a halt
until I feel I'm doing the right thing.
Thanks Again.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
N458XL reserved
working on wings
________________________________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Tracy,
The organic charcoal filter's limited by atmospheric overload. Moving
the air helps, but to be safe, you should consider making up a fresh air
system
from a small vacuum. Shouldn't cost you more than $30 for the hood and
the use of a small clean vacuum. I got exposed when I failed to turn on my
fans in the booth. The low pressure air system became a necessity to
continue. I spent about $150 in all for the whole system with extra hose.
If you're interested, try the paint page on my site at
www.macsmachine.com. See link,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/paint/full/low-pressure-air-system.gif
If you have questions, just ask
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
> Hello Listers:
>
> I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now
> and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some
> advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list.
>
> I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much
> deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the
> interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and,
> discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came out
> looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff sticks to
> these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep.
>
> So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I
> cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to
> use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from
> Harbor Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a
> fresh-air breathing system?
>
> Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited
> equipment I am using?
>
> All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground
> to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing.
>
> Thanks Again.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> N458XL reserved
> working on wings
>
>*
>
>*
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
Hi Tracy,
I won't claim expertise on this subject, but I did do professional
spray painting for a while and survived.
I think the most important issues are: What solvents are used in
your paint; and are you taking sufficient precautions so that you
aren't breathing the solvents.
I don't know if the paint you are using is intended to stick to
oxidized aluminum. Most of the stuff I have seen recommends treating
the aluminum with something to get rid of the oxide layer that forms
almost instantly when aluminum is exposed to air. Alodine is one
such treatment, but I believe there are many other ones. Another
thing I have heard of is etching primers. I would talk to the paint
manufacturer or distributor about this issue.
On the safety issue, the professional carbon cartridge mask should
serve you well if you are also taking precautions to get the majority
of fumes to flow away from you. This is usually done with a "Paint
Booth" that forces air flow out one end of the booth. If you don't
have one of these booths set up, you need to be sure the wind is
blowing away from you.
I would recommend you wear full coverage clothing and use good rubber
gloves while handling paint and related stuff. In general, you don't
want to get any on you.
I understand it is important to change the cartridges often in you
mask. If you smell anything with the mask on, it is not working correctly.
I hope these comments help a little. I would still recommend you talk
to your suppliers and read the MSDS for the material you are using.
I don't know what HVLP systems do for your paint application process,
but I am quite sure there is not a safety difference between these
guns and standard ones.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:36 AM 8/17/2006, you wrote:
>Hello Listers:
>
>I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now
>and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some
>advise from the collection of experts that contribute to this list.
>
>I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much
>deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the
>interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and,
>discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came
>out looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff
>sticks to these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep.
>
>So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator
>I cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I
>continue to use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray
>gun from Harbor Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I
>really need a fresh-air breathing system?
>
>Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited
>equipment I am using?
>
>All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has
>ground to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing.
>
>Thanks Again.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tracy Smith
>Naugatuck, CT
>N458XL reserved
>working on wings
>
>----------
>
>
-
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
Hi Tracy,
I am not an expert, however I spoke with the local paint supply house
and followed their recommendations. After using cortec and other primers
recommended in the plans, I noticed it did not adhere all that well. I
discussed my problem with the local supply house and I bought the
charcoal filter they recommended along with Dupont Etch Primer, A-4115s,
I applied the primer after wiping the surface with acetone, it really
adheres a lot better. I spray the parts, open the garage door (if it is
warm enough) and I take off the mask and take a break for a while until
the smell is basically gone. It only takes a few minutes to spray
everything so exposure is very limited.
Clyde
601XL
Hello Listers:
I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now
and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise
from the collection of experts that contribute to this list.
Thanks Again.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
N458XL reserved
working on wings
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
-
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Read the Materiel Safety Data Sheets on the product.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55354#55354
Message 6
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| Subject: | Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
Tracy,
Found this page while I was surfing around. Hope it's useful.
http://www.geocities.com/snjdrvr/air_supply.html
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
1 Corvair core acquired, seeking more.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
crvsecretary@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:37 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
Hello Listers:
I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now and I
rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise from the
collection of experts that contribute to this list.
I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much
deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the interior
of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and, discounting a few
runs that no one will ever see, everything came out looking good. I am VERY
impressed with the way this stuff sticks to these parts with a simple
lacquer thinner prep.
So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I
cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to use
this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from Harbor Freight,
but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a fresh-air breathing
system?
Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited
equipment I am using?
All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground to
a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing.
Thanks Again.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
N458XL reserved
working on wings
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: When Can I rivet 701 Front to Rear Fuse? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Doug,
If I remember correctly, the plans state that you can connect everything, but don't
drill the two holes in the firewall where the upper arm on the motor mount
will attach until you have the mount on the firewall. I think this is stated
in the photo guide.
If I remember correctly, there are three different degrees of angle that you will
be working with.
Good Luck,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
doug kandle wrote:
> I have completed jigging the front to rear fuselage on my 701. I have ordered
the "new" firewall forward kit from ZAC but they say it won't ship until sometime
in September. Therefore I can't bolt the cabin frame to the firewall.
>
> I plan to move on to the next step that would follow section 11 (instrument plane)
as I don't want to attach anything to the firewall until I have the engine
mounts bolted to it.
>
> My question is this: is it OK to go ahead and rivet up the front to rear fuselage
at this point? The assembly guide shows clecos still in the fuselage while
they put together the front sides and instrument panel. But I would like to
rivet up the fuse and go on to the controls and main gear.
>
> Does anyone see any problem with this?
--------
Tommy Walker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55365#55365
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
I have been using the Dupont VeriPrime 615S and have found for my case, only priming
the mating surfaces I use a 1" bristle brush. I have a fan blowing the
vapors away and out of the garage. I only mix up very small batches.
I tried using the HF air brush but it really was taking longer and making a mess.
This was done in a paint booth.
Surface prep is with ScotchBrite 7447B then a wipe down with Lacquer Thinner.
It sticks real good after I let it dry for a day.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55382#55382
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety |
Tracy,
I don't usually respond to these discussions. You will get almost as
many opinions as there are people out there. Take what makes sense to
you and delete the rest. I'm a painting contractor. Mostly commercial
buildings. I've done this for close to 35 years and I'm not dead or
incapacitated. I have read all the posts today on the subject of
painting. I think everyone of them has valid points. People react
differently to exposure to paint or chemicals. I spray everything
outside of the shop whenever I can. When winter comes I will probably do
the same under cover, out of the rain, then bring the parts inside to
dry. It keeps the shop cleaner and the overspray off of everything. I
use an HVLP because it's easy, cuts down on the overspray and the
material used. When I'm outside I don't always wear a mask if I can stay
upwind. The "right " thing to do would be to use a good quality twin
cartridge respirator. There are cartridges for specific products you
spray. Also when you are done spraying for the day, put it back in the
plastic bag it comes in. They last longer. The bottom line is, I
wouldn't let my little girl be exposed to the same things I have. I'm
probably lucky being exposed to all the chemicals and paints I have.
Some haven't been. I'm uhhhh still fairly normal. What? Sometimes the
voices tell me what to do, but I don't listen anymore. I seem to have an
airplane building obsession that won't go away.
Good Luck. Be careful and follow the directions. The manufacturers
really know what they are talking about.
Daaave in SSSSSSSSSSalem.
801
----- Original Message -----
From: crvsecretary@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Epoxy Primer and Personal Safety
Hello Listers:
I have been (largely) lurking on this list for well over a year now
and I rarely ask for help or opinions, but this time I need some advise
from the collection of experts that contribute to this list.
I don't need or desire to start another 'primer war', but after much
deliberation and testing I chose to use 2-part epoxy primer for the
interior of the wings on the 601XL. I tested on 3 or 4 ribs and,
discounting a few runs that no one will ever see, everything came out
looking good. I am VERY impressed with the way this stuff sticks to
these parts with a simple lacquer thinner prep.
So, what's the problem? Despite using a charcoal-filter respirator I
cannot help but think I am going to be in big trouble if I continue to
use this stuff. I'm using a small 'detail' style spray gun from Harbor
Freight, but it is NOT an HVLP gun. And, do I really need a fresh-air
breathing system?
Am I an idiot for even considering this approach with the limited
equipment I am using?
All comments are greatly appreciated - building and priming has ground
to a halt until I feel I'm doing the right thing.
Thanks Again.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
N458XL reserved
working on wings
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 10
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| Subject: | 701 First Flight |
The first flight of N727EP, a 701 on amphib floats & a Rotax 912S, occurred
2 days ago at Linden-Prices airport ( 10 miles south of Flint, MI ). The
plane performed & handled great, however I did run out of "UP" elevator trim.
After an hour flight, I returned for an uneventful landing.
I adjusted the elevator trim tab twice to the point where it is almost 90
degrees to the elevator at full travel and I still run out of "UP" trim during
slower speeds. I am wondering whether an adjustment to the horizontal stab
might help?
Thanks again to everyone that has answered my question & offered building
advice during the last 2 1/2 years.
Happy building, Mike Elrod
Message 11
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| Subject: | nylon brake lines - mine broke |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
As I reported, my nylon brake line broke on the way to Abbotsford, BC.
The attachments gave way and allowed the line to flex in the airstream.
In the field we took the fitting apart and reinstalled the existing line.
I noted that the line was crazed. I'm using the 'flexible nylon tubing'
supplied by Zenith Aircraft.
Back at BFI I replaced the brake line that was under the wing.
I think that it was UV that did the damage. The brake line that I removed
was brittle in spots and easily snapped.
Here is a quote from Aircraft Spruce:
'Nylo-Seal type "NNR" semi-rigid natural color tubing is made of Nylon-II
and is far superior to other types of Nylon tubing. It does not depend on
moisture for flexibility and does not become brittle. It has excellent
resistance to flexural fatigue and can be used where there is vibration
or tube movement.'
Matbe what I have is not Nylon-II.
I'll still use nylon because it is easy to work with.
But I'll replace the exposed line every two years.
633Z has been outside since November 2003.
The brake line inside the airframe doesn't appear to be crazed.
But, I figure it will age too.
I could still taxi without the right brake.
When I applied the left brake I needed lots of 'right rudder'.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XL 379 hours
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: nylon brake lines - mine broke |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
It sounds like your plastic brake line is being attacked by
ultra-violet light. This is a common problem with most plastics. I
am not sure about the nylon, but nearly all plastic formulations are
attacked by sunlight and particularly the UV portion of sunlight.
If you insist on using plastic in sunlight environments, it might
help to paint it white. This may reflect some of the damaging radiation.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
>But I'll replace the exposed line every two years.
>633Z has been outside since November 2003.
>The brake line inside the airframe doesn't appear to be crazed.
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