---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/25/06: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: 601 XL Rotax cowling needed (Trevor Page) 2. 05:30 AM - slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (dj45) 3. 05:31 AM - Re: Cheap 601XL flap actuator alternative (N5SL) 4. 07:06 AM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (Dave Ruddiman) 5. 07:53 AM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool () 6. 08:11 AM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (Gary Liming) 7. 09:05 AM - Fuel Tank Leakage Test (Martin Pohl) 8. 09:17 AM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (Charles Wacker) 9. 09:32 AM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (dj45) 10. 09:34 AM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (dj45) 11. 10:16 AM - RE : Fuel Tank Leakage Test (Carlos Sa) 12. 10:46 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Leakage Test (Robert Schoenberger) 13. 10:52 AM - Re: Cheap 601XL flap actuator alternative (Doug Eatman) 14. 11:57 AM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (NYTerminat@aol.com) 15. 03:18 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Leakage Test (sales@steelframe) 16. 03:18 PM - Re: Getting out of an overturned XL (Phyrcooler) 17. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL (Craig Payne) 18. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL (Bryan Martin) 19. 04:46 PM - 701 Pitch Control Question (doug kandle) 20. 05:37 PM - Self-etching primer (Tim Juhl) 21. 05:52 PM - Re: Self-etching primer (Edward Moody II) 22. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL (Zodie Rocket) 23. 07:26 PM - Re: Self-etching primer (Dave Ruddiman) 24. 07:27 PM - Re: Self-etching primer (Ron Lendon) 25. 07:37 PM - Re: Self-etching primer (J2j3h4@aol.com) 26. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL (Randy Bryant) 27. 10:31 PM - GPS Navigation (Robert L. Stone) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:16 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL Rotax cowling needed Doug, as it turns out I'm having to order the whole kit from CZAW because of the licensing termination with Zenith. Nick told me that most of the current XL sales are Jabiru powered and not Rotax which is why the whole cowling thing is up in the air (no pun intended) CZAW sent me some great pictures of the Rotax install with the cowling and everything is in the front now. My only concern is the stock muffler might interfere with the oil cooler position since it's right in front of the can and the front down-tubes from the 912 go into the can from the front. I've seen some pictures with another exhaust and the tubes go into from the sides... Perhaps you can shed some light on this setup since the FW kit photos from ZAC show the earlier setup like yours with the side-mounted oil cooler. BTW, the CZAW cowling is carbon fibre so it should be very light... Some pictures are enclosed that might help. Sorry about the small size but I'm not sure if the Matronics system will send them out and kibosh the sizes... Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 =EF=BC=EF=BC=EF=BC=EF=BC=EF=BC On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:58 PM, dfmoeller wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dfmoeller" > > > I have had the exact same problem on my 912S/601XL combo and am > executing the exact same fix. Funny the guy at Zenith didn't > mention this to me. > > I have an early model XL with the side mounted cooler. In the > central Texas summer, it is simply inadequate, even in early > morning. I'm reasonably sure it simply is a matter of insuffienct > air flow. I have great oil pressure and absolutely zero blockage > around the oil cooler. > > I purchased the Rotax cooler from CPS and the mounting bracket and > banjo fittings from Zenith. I have a mechanic working on > fiberglassing the new hole in the cowling and mounting the unit. I > got some dimensions of the opening from Zenith and the newer style > cowling and mounting is described very well in the rev. 1.1 version > of the firewall forward instructions which are on the Zenith > Builders Pages. > > Now, if this doesn't work, I'm not quite sure what next, but to > mount both units. > > BTW, where are you located? I would be eager to hear how others > have solved this problem since there seems to be plenty of 601XLs > in the south. > > Doug Moellering > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool From: "dj45" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and now I can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set up for the flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57200#57200 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:45 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cheap 601XL flap actuator alternative --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Great find Doug! I noticed they offer a mounting bracket too. The Built-in potentiometer and available controller makes this a better actuator than what I used. I can't complain since a friend gave me the one I'm using. Thanks for the post and looking out for everyone. This may be the way to go for XL plans-built flaps. Take care, Scott Laughlin Working on carb air filter/heat muff, etc. http://www.cooknwithgas.com/6_19_06_Cowl_Rside.JPG --- Doug Eatman wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Eatman" > > > For you scroungers and scrap builders, I came across > a neat linear actuator > that is almost identical in size and function to the > one Scott Laughlin is > using at www.surpluscenter.com . __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:49 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" The slotless flaperon is for an 801. Maybe you can do it on a 701 also. I don't know. One place to find it is go to www.liming.org/ch801/flaps.html and scroll down to friby-hass no slot flap. I don't know where the bungee tool is. It might be in the builder made tools, but I can't remember how to get there. Dave in Salem 801 working on the wings. ----- Original Message ----- From: "dj45" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:27 AM Subject: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" > > Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and now I > can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set up for the > flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57200#57200 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:24 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > From: "dj45" > Date: 2006/08/25 Fri AM 07:27:44 CDT > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" > > Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and now I can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set up for the flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57200#57200 > > > Try:kobushweldingandmachining.com. Look under tools. George > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:36 AM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming At 07:27 AM 8/25/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" > >Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and >now I can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set >up for the flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? The bungee tool is made by Trevor Kobush, who also oversaw Zac's welding. He has a website, and it is at: http://www.kobushweldingandmachining.com/aircraft%20tools.htm I've used this tool, and it does work. I also found out a few things about the bungees. In AC43.13, it says that these things are to be replaced every three years. (It also shows you the color coding scheme for determining when your bungee was manufactured.) I contacted the sole manufacturer of the bungee rings ( SBC Industries, http://www.sbcindustries.com a third generation company - a spin off of Superior Bungee) and he said he's gotten some returned that needed to be replaced in 1 year, and some that were 20 years old that didn't need to be replaced. He said the main difference is whether or not they are exposed to oil (or, presumably, all petroleum based products.) These rings are used on vintage aircraft and Cubs and Champs, and on those they are usually covered with an oil-proof cover for just that reason. Gary Liming N1776G ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Tank Leakage Test From: "Martin Pohl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" I am currently trying to test my fuel tanks (including fuel line to the wing root) for leakages. Problem: I want to follow Bingelis' instruction using a balloon at the fuel tank vent. It is quite difficult to seal the fuel tank filler neck properly. How did you do that? Any advice? Cheers from Switzerland Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57270#57270 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:14 AM PST US From: "Charles Wacker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Wacker" The bungee tool is made by Kobush Welding and Machining. Josh Kobush works for Zenith. He has a web site www.kobushweldingandmachining.com >From: "Dave Ruddiman" >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:05:52 -0700 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > >The slotless flaperon is for an 801. Maybe you can do it on a 701 also. I >don't know. One place to find it is go to www.liming.org/ch801/flaps.html >and scroll down to friby-hass no slot flap. I don't know where the bungee >tool is. It might be in the builder made tools, but I can't remember how to >get there. > >Dave in Salem >801 working on the wings. > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "dj45" >To: >Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:27 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" >> >>Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and now I >>can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set up for the >>flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57200#57200 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool From: "dj45" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" Thank you both. That was just exactley what I was looking for Dan Stanton 801, jackson, Mi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57282#57282 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool From: "dj45" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" Sorry, All four of you Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57283#57283 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:01 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Zenith-List: Fuel Tank Leakage Test --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa I put a bead of vaseline around the cap (before inserting it in place). The air pressure is quite low, so that was enough to plug the leakage. Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada --- Martin Pohl a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" > > I am currently trying to test my fuel tanks (including fuel line to the wing root) for > leakages. > > Problem: I want to follow Bingelis' instruction using a balloon at the fuel tank vent. It is > quite difficult to seal the fuel tank filler neck properly. How did you do that? Any advice? > > Cheers from Switzerland > Martin > > -------- > Martin Pohl > Zodiac XL QBK > 8645 Jona, Switzerland > www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57270#57270 > > > > > > > > > > > p5.vert.ukl.yahoo.com uncompressed/chunked Fri Aug 25 16:23:45 GMT 2006 __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:24 AM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Tank Leakage Test --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger Martin, I used surgical gloves which really look weird when blown up. After putting the entrance to the glove over the filler neck, I took a couple of large rubber bands - about 7" in length from bend to bend and wrapped them around the filler neck as tightly as possible. I then filled the glove through the fuel line, and had a C clamp near the end which I clamped down on the hose once the glove was filled. Test the balloon / filler neck with some soapy water to see if you have any leaks there. If not, enjoy a beer and wait about 2 hours to see whether the glove deflates. If so, reinflate the glove and then start testing joints the fuel line, etc. for leaks. Hope this helps. Robert Schoenberger 701 Martin Pohl wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" > > I am currently trying to test my fuel tanks (including fuel line to the wing root) for leakages. > > Problem: I want to follow Bingelis' instruction using a balloon at the fuel tank vent. It is quite difficult to seal the fuel tank filler neck properly. How did you do that? Any advice? > > Cheers from Switzerland > Martin > > -------- > Martin Pohl > Zodiac XL QBK > 8645 Jona, Switzerland > www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57270#57270 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:06 AM PST US From: "Doug Eatman" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cheap 601XL flap actuator alternative --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Eatman" Thanks for the input everyone. Special thanks to Scott L. for your extensive detailing of your ideas on the webpage. My flap arm might "coincidentally" look a bit like yours one day... As a side note, the '76 Grumman Tiger I rent uses a simple toggle switch for flaps and it is still my favorite of any certified plane I've flown. If anything about the controller leaves me with a question about reliability, I'll just use a switch. do not archive Doug Eatman St. Augustine, FL scrounge-build 601XL "The Batplane" ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:13 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool Look on Larry Martins site for the no slot flaperon. _WWW.SKYHAWG.COM_ (http://www.SKYHAWG.COM) In a message dated 8/25/2006 8:31:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dj45@modempool.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and now I can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set up for the flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:15 PM PST US From: "sales@steelframe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Tank Leakage Test --> Zenith-List message posted by: "sales@steelframe" Best thing to use is a Condom, works better than a balloon. Ron Saarinen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 3:45 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Tank Leakage Test > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger > > > Martin, I used surgical gloves which really look weird when blown up. > After putting the entrance to the glove over the filler neck, I took a > couple of large rubber bands - about 7" in length from bend to bend and > wrapped them around the filler neck as tightly as possible. I then filled > the glove through the fuel line, and had a C clamp near the end which I > clamped down on the hose once the glove was filled. Test the balloon / > filler neck with some soapy water to see if you have any leaks there. If > not, enjoy a beer and wait about 2 hours to see whether the glove > deflates. If so, reinflate the glove and then start testing joints the > fuel line, etc. for leaks. Hope this helps. Robert Schoenberger 701 > > > Martin Pohl wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" >> >> I am currently trying to test my fuel tanks (including fuel line to the >> wing root) for leakages. >> >> Problem: I want to follow Bingelis' instruction using a balloon at the >> fuel tank vent. It is quite difficult to seal the fuel tank filler neck >> properly. How did you do that? Any advice? >> >> Cheers from Switzerland >> Martin >> >> -------- >> Martin Pohl >> Zodiac XL QBK >> 8645 Jona, Switzerland >> www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57270#57270 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL From: "Phyrcooler" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" Actually - it is ironic that this discussion started. I am currently comparing various LSA/kits as well as the development of the new LSA's from RAN's and VAN's. There are some features of the XL that I like - but an area of concern is the lack of roll-over protection. Any prior discussion on this? Has anyone put in a rollbar? What is the history of the 601's in regards to ending up the wrong way up? Frankly, I am less worried about getting through the canopy, than I am about supporting the weight of the bird on my head and shoulders. Even more so is a desire to still be alive to not be enjoying the experienceif I were to be in this predicament. [Shocked] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57355#57355 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:14 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I think that if you look at the photo I linked to the supporting hoops behind the seats did not collapse. I believe someone on the list actually inspected that particular plane after it flipped. So maybe they can provide more information. www.ch601.org/stories.htm Van's is featuring the roll bar in the (unreleased) rv-12 but (judging by the small photographs on the Van's site) I don't see any more roll-over protection in the pictures of the rv-3, rv-4, rv-6, rv-8 or rv-9 than the 601XL has. In most of these I see a single, large-ish tube between the fixed, forward portion of the canopy and the rear, movable portion. I would predict that the two interlocked tubes on the XL would be less likely to fold forward or backward. Can anyone with more hands-on knowledge of the various Van's models comment? Any pictures out there of flipped rv's? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:07 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I know of one case where a 601XL ended up on its back during a forced landing. The nose-wheel dropped in a hole and the plane flipped over. The pilot walked away in good shape though. This subject has been discussed before on this list, check the archives for rollover protection and roll bars. On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:16 PM, Phyrcooler wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" There are some features of the XL that I like - but an area of concern is the lack of roll-over protection. Any prior discussion on this? Has anyone put in a rollbar? What is the history of the 601's in regards to ending up the wrong way up? -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Pitch Control Question From: "doug kandle" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" I am assembling my controls. Part 7C1-3 does not appear to have the proper length shown in the drawings. The drawing shows a total length of 685 mm. With 10mm at each end, the bolts would have a spacing of 665 mm. However, when I set the tail bellcrank to "neutral" I measure a required length of more like 620mm. Looking at the drawing of 7C2-2 I would estimate that the distance should be about 625mm (this takes the 595 distance from the stick attach point to the bellcrank pivot point and adds 30mm which is the offset for the attach point of the stick to the torque tube). The part supplied for 7C1-3 was indeed 685mm so ZAC thinks that they need a tube this long. As an aside - Is the "neutral" position of the stick vertical with respect to the floor or should it be slightly forward or aft? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57368#57368 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. Tim Do not archive -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Horiz. Stab. & Elev. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57382#57382 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:28 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" The plane (a 601XL) is still under construction so I can only offer opinion without a history to back it up or a control to compare to. I am using Tempo self-etching zinc oxide (not chromate) primer (from rattle cans) on all the interior of the plane and any overlap areas that can't be primed and painted when the plane is finished. My rule is if it can't be primed and painted later, prime it now. I will feel safer for having done this but as I said, I have no proof that I am actually safer. It does take time and cost money and adds weight but my decision remains the same despite those negatives. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL/ fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Juhl" Subject: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for > corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? > I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. > > Tim ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:35 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Well believe it or not I was actually asked to remove that picture a year or so ago by another builder. Heck I'm leaving it on, that 601HD took a hell of a beating and stayed in that spot, in that condition for 6 mos before the airport had it removed. I have also talked to Chris Heintz about this possibility and he has stated (much like you see in the picture) that the design of the Rudder is such that it will absorb most of the impact and crush absorbing most energy. The tubes over the turtle deck along with that tube holding a thick canopy will absorb most of the rest of the impact if need be. One thing I can truthfully say after seeing Jon's plane is that Chris designed smartly, parts crumple to allow survivability and strength is built in with functionality , the Chris Heintz method of course. cdngoose Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I think that if you look at the photo I linked to the supporting hoops behind the seats did not collapse. I believe someone on the list actually inspected that particular plane after it flipped. So maybe they can provide more information. www.ch601.org/stories.htm -- 8/25/2006 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:54 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Tim, I think you will find it difficult to determine if priming, no matter what you use is necessary or not. So far I have used self etching from spray cans, sprayed with an HVLP and have also used some zinc chromate. I'm doing it because I have all the equipment to spray it, it's easy to do and it could possibly help with resale if that ever comes up. If you have looked in the wings of factory plans, a large portion of them have never been primed. Where you live can be a major factor. If you are around a lot of salt air I would do it for sure. There are probably people on the list that can contribute a lot more information than I can. I have read a lot about it and it seems to me that if it makes you feel better to prime then do it. You can also just brush a strip on the mating surfaces. Dave in Salem 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Juhl" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for > corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? > I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. > > Tim > > Do not archive > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Horiz. Stab. & Elev. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57382#57382 > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Self-etching primer From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Tim, I tried the rattle can from a marine store and didn't like the results. The stuff flaked off and was heavy. I saved 3oz. of weight in the rudder by using the two part self etching primer and a 1" brush and it sticks like weld. Look at my log here: and the next entry also. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57407#57407 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:06 PM PST US From: J2j3h4@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer Rattle can primer by itself will not provide corrosion protection. It must be covered with a sealing coat of paint. Two part epoxy will provide protection by itself. At least this seems to be the consensus on the RV list serves after many hours of "primer wars". I do not want to start a similar war on this list, and I have not personally conducted tests on aluminum to confirm this, so I will not debate the point. However, I did some extensive body work on a car once and could not finish it in a single session, so just painted it in primer after each day's work. I drove it between work sessions, including through some rain. When I went to finish the job, I found the steel rusted under the primer. If you wish to review the RV debates go to _www.matronics.com_ (http://www.matronics.com) and subscribe to the RV lists, then check the archives. You will find many, many posts on the subject. Jim Hasper Ex-RV builder In a message dated 8/25/2006 7:54:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dredmoody@cox.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" The plane (a 601XL) is still under construction so I can only offer opinion without a history to back it up or a control to compare to. I am using Tempo self-etching zinc oxide (not chromate) primer (from rattle cans) on all the interior of the plane and any overlap areas that can't be primed and painted when the plane is finished. My rule is if it can't be primed and painted later, prime it now. I will feel safer for having done this but as I said, I have no proof that I am actually safer. It does take time and cost money and adds weight but my decision remains the same despite those negatives. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL/ fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Juhl" Subject: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for > corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? > I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. > > Tim ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:46 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Why in the world would another builder ask you to remove that picture?? Randy XL Wings - Plans Only Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zodie Rocket" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > > Well believe it or not I was actually asked to remove that picture a > year or so ago by another builder. Heck I'm leaving it on, that 601HD > took a hell of a beating and stayed in that spot, in that condition for > 6 mos before the airport had it removed. I have also talked to Chris > Heintz about this possibility and he has stated (much like you see in > the picture) that the design of the Rudder is such that it will absorb > most of the impact and crush absorbing most energy. The tubes over the > turtle deck along with that tube holding a thick canopy will absorb most > of the rest of the impact if need be. One thing I can truthfully say > after seeing Jon's plane is that Chris designed smartly, parts crumple > to allow survivability and strength is built in with functionality , the > Chris Heintz method of course. > > cdngoose > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > > -----Original Message----- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > I think that if you look at the photo I linked to the supporting hoops > behind the seats did not collapse. I believe someone on the list > actually > inspected that particular plane after it flipped. So maybe they can > provide > more information. > > www.ch601.org/stories.htm > > > > -- > 8/25/2006 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:10 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Members, I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx