---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/26/06: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:10 AM - Re: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL, Strong enough... (Gary Gower) 2. 03:51 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Leakage Test (Martin Pohl) 3. 05:14 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robin Bellach) 4. 05:51 AM - battery location (Jean-Paul Roy) 5. 06:02 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robin Bellach) 6. 06:11 AM - Test (Bill Naumuk) 7. 06:26 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Jean-Paul Roy) 8. 06:40 AM - Gear box installation (Bill Naumuk) 9. 07:05 AM - Re: Gear box installation (David Mikesell) 10. 07:59 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robert L. Stone) 11. 08:07 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Todd Osborne) 12. 08:15 AM - Re: Self-etching primer (Dave and Jan Clay) 13. 08:29 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) 14. 08:41 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) 15. 08:48 AM - Re: Self-etching primer (Edward Moody II) 16. 09:03 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robert L. Stone) 17. 10:16 AM - RE : Re: Self-etching primer (Carlos Sa) 18. 10:43 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 11:27 AM - Re: RE : Re: Self-etching primer (LarryMcFarland) 20. 11:58 AM - Re: RE : Re: Self-etching primer (Dave Ruddiman) 21. 12:28 PM - Strobe light audio noise (MElrod3732@aol.com) 22. 12:48 PM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) 23. 01:03 PM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) 24. 01:54 PM - Re: Strobe light audio noise (Chuck Deiterich) 25. 03:20 PM - Survivable plane crash... (Grant Corriveau) 26. 03:20 PM - Re: Strobe light audio noise (Paul Mulwitz) 27. 04:23 PM - polish update (neitzel) 28. 04:30 PM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (johndread@wildblue.net) 29. 04:46 PM - Re: Test (johndread@wildblue.net) 30. 06:28 PM - Re: Strobe light audio noise (4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons)) 31. 10:16 PM - Strobe noise (Mark Sherman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:22 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL, Strong enough... I have already made a comment about this some time ago... Hope is in the archives, If I didnt put the "do not..". As short as possible: Planes are designed to fly not to crash or roll over. First because is very important to fly it down, If you fly it down it will touch down (even in an emergency out of airport) at a slow speed (one good point of the Zentih Aircrafts) that it will absobe the energy (G,s over yor body) and IF it rols over it will do it in "slow motion" so the rudder and/or fuselage will protect you. In the remote case of a crash in an uncontroled manner, the inertia and speed will build up so fast (in any airplane, from ultralights up) that even if the unfortunate pilot is flying a winged Daytona stock car will the huge roll cage, his/her fragile body will not survive the impact G's... So in case of emergency landing because an engine off: Keep calm, remember your classes, keep control of the airplane, fly the airplane down, fly the airplane down, fly the airplane down ALL THE WAY until it stops. If you fail your aproach, dont be shy to aply power and try again, instead of unsuccesfuly trying to stop the over shooted airplane in the last 100 ft of strip before the front wheel hits the ditch at the end :-) :-) I WILL roll over! When ever you dont have a place to go flying, instead of just burning gas, go to a little airtrip (if your airport is big and lots of traffic) and practice dead stick landings to the numbers, this fun trainning, will pay in the very rare case you ever suffer a engine out landing... One last thing, The ZAC airplanes are the more "landing friendly" airplanes in his class. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S , building a 601 XL. Flying from Chapala, Mexico. Craig Payne wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I think that if you look at the photo I linked to the supporting hoops behind the seats did not collapse. I believe someone on the list actually inspected that particular plane after it flipped. So maybe they can provide more information. www.ch601.org/stories.htm Van's is featuring the roll bar in the (unreleased) rv-12 but (judging by the small photographs on the Van's site) I don't see any more roll-over protection in the pictures of the rv-3, rv-4, rv-6, rv-8 or rv-9 than the 601XL has. In most of these I see a single, large-ish tube between the fixed, forward portion of the canopy and the rear, movable portion. I would predict that the two interlocked tubes on the XL would be less likely to fold forward or backward. Can anyone with more hands-on knowledge of the various Van's models comment? Any pictures out there of flipped rv's? -- Craig --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Tank Leakage Test From: "Martin Pohl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" Thank you for all your ideas. Will try how that works... Cheers Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57469#57469 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:51 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Bob, 11-02222 is $399 in the regular catalog. It's the AirMap 500 handheld with 3" black and white 240x180 LED display. 11-02222 is the AirMap 2000C with 5" 386-color 320x240 TFT display. These definitely ARE NOT the same unit. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Members, I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:09 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Zenith-List: battery location Hello. Some days ago, someone was asking if behind the copilot seat was the only location for the battery. Someone mentionned that because of W&B the battery may even have to be located in the tail. Accessing the tail seems/is a real problem. I found the solution on Larry Martin's 701 site. http://www.skyhawg.com/reardoor.html Hope this helps Jean-Paul Roy 701-working on wings ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:23 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation OOPS! 11-02824 is 2000C. I can't get it right either! ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Bellach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 7:13 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Bob, 11-02222 is $399 in the regular catalog. It's the AirMap 500 handheld with 3" black and white 240x180 LED display. 11-02222 is the AirMap 2000C with 5" 386-color 320x240 TFT display. These definitely ARE NOT the same unit. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Members, I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:43 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Test I've been having e-mail problems since the spinoff of Windstream from Alltel. Let's see if this works. do not archive Bill Naumuk 42.5%HDS Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:41 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Hi Robert. The fact is the number 11-02222 from ACS is a Lowrance AirMap 500 @ $399.00. It is a black and white display GPS. The number 11-02824 is indeed a LOWRANCE AIRMAP 2000C @ $999.00. It is a colour display GPS. Hope this clarify things. Regards Jean-Paul Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 1:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Members, I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:12 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Gear box installation HD+HDS builders- Aha! Windstream finally found the trouble with my e-mail account Last week, I managed to get all the bolts into the main gearboxes and documented the procedure. If anyone wants a step by step method of getting the little puppies in without getting so frustrated you wind up beating your wife and kicking the dog, let me know and I'll send it to you. Lots of pictures- it probably belongs in the archives, but don't want to ruffle any feathers. do not archive Bill Naumuk 42.5%HDS Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:04 AM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gear box installation I will definitely take a copy, thanks. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:39 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Gear box installation HD+HDS builders- Aha! Windstream finally found the trouble with my e-mail account Last week, I managed to get all the bolts into the main gearboxes and documented the procedure. If anyone wants a step by step method of getting the little puppies in without getting so frustrated you wind up beating your wife and kicking the dog, let me know and I'll send it to you. Lots of pictures- it probably belongs in the archives, but don't want to ruffle any feathers. do not archive Bill Naumuk 42.5%HDS Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Jean-Paul, I guess the thing that fooled me is the fact that the picture in the add shown on the back page of Sport Pilot and the picture of the 2000c in the Acft Spruce catalog look alike. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean-Paul Roy To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Hi Robert. The fact is the number 11-02222 from ACS is a Lowrance AirMap 500 @ $399.00. It is a black and white display GPS. The number 11-02824 is indeed a LOWRANCE AIRMAP 2000C @ $999.00. It is a colour display GPS. Hope this clarify things. Regards Jean-Paul Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 1:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Members, I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:56 AM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne I have not used the 2000, but I own the Lowrance 1000 and can say that I love it. The only complaint I have is the MapCreate software that comes with it is not good, but you don't need that for aviation use anyway. The GPS is terrific, VERY easy to use and read, I have nothing but good things to say about it. Todd ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:03 AM PST US From: "Dave and Jan Clay" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" Well, here's my 2 cents worth. I started out using zinc chromate, but switched to the NAPA self-etching primer. Number one reason...better adhesion (with same prep). I prep with Scotch-Brite followed by cleaning with acetone. The zinc chromate is easy to scratch off. The self etching primer is virtually bullet proof. It really sticks. The NAPA primer is cheap and readily available. I'm sure there are better (i.e. more expensive) alternatives, but any primer should be better than no primer. Dave Clay Temple, TX Ch601XL Scratch builder www.daves601xl.com _________________________________________________________________ Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:53 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Here's the straight info Bob, and anyone else interested. The A.S. part number 11-0222 listed for $399.00 is accurate. Unfortunately it is accurate for the Lowrance Airmap 500..... a black and white unit with a 3" diagonal screen and far fewer features. The Airmap 2000C has a color display, 5" diagonal screen, a crapload more features including terrain and obstruction awareness, and the Aircraft Spruce price is $999.00 . The best price I have seen for this item (the 2000C) is at Marv Golden. It was about $690 a week ago but when I checked on it for another builder 2 days ago it had gone up to $725.00 . The black and white Airmap 1000 sells for $495.00 , it is the same size as the 2000C but it cannot be upgraded to provide terrain data... it will show tower obstructions however. They are very nice gps units, much less expensive than Garmin 396 and 496 units which have more features but a 3.8" diagonal display. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Members, I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:07 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" The Map Create software that comes with the 2000C is slow and cumbersome to load onto a card but if you limit the size of the map file it works okay and allows very useful operation on land / water. You will be allowed to register only five cards to the program so I advise buying big ones..... I bought three 1 gig SD cards so far and have been happy with them. Ed Moody II > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > > I have not used the 2000, but I own the Lowrance 1000 and can say that I > love it. The only complaint I have is the MapCreate software that comes > with it is not good, but you don't need that for aviation use anyway. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:57 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" Regarding use of primer alone, remember that the primer has little or no UV resistance by itself. It will only hold up long term on the inside or an overlap area. I do agree that whether or not it really makes a big difference in aircraft durability and corrosion resistance, it can't hurt, and it is likely to be a positive factor in a resale situation. For what it's worth, my prep has been wipe clean twice with denatured alcohol, then once more with laquer thinner, no scuffing at all (scratches in the surface are pointless and will not produce much real benefit... the etching produces way more adhesive surface) then spray according manufacturer's directions with ventilation and a charcoal filter mask. Ed Moody II > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" > > > Well, here's my 2 cents worth. I started out using zinc chromate, but > switched to the NAPA self-etching primer. Number one reason...better > adhesion (with same prep). I prep with Scotch-Brite followed by cleaning > with acetone. The zinc chromate is easy to scratch off. The self etching > primer is virtually bullet proof. It really sticks. The NAPA primer is > cheap and readily available. I'm sure there are better (i.e. more > expensive) alternatives, but any primer should be better than no primer. > > Dave Clay > Temple, TX > Ch601XL Scratch builder > www.daves601xl.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Ed, If you look at the ad in July 2006 issue of Sport Pilot on the back cover it does not say 500, or 1000, it does say Lowrence 2000c. I also says in the same that it's a 256 color display. I just called Aircraft Spruce and talked to someone in Avionics who told me that the add was printed than way in error. I am not a lawyer so I may not be correctly informed but I have heard that if a vendor advertises a product at a certain price, he is bound by law to sell the product for that price. If there are any lawyers on the net, I sure would like to know if this information is correct. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Here's the straight info Bob, and anyone else interested. The A.S. part number 11-0222 listed for $399.00 is accurate. Unfortunately it is accurate for the Lowrance Airmap 500..... a black and white unit with a 3" diagonal screen and far fewer features. The Airmap 2000C has a color display, 5" diagonal screen, a crapload more features including terrain and obstruction awareness, and the Aircraft Spruce price is $999.00 . The best price I have seen for this item (the 2000C) is at Marv Golden. It was about $690 a week ago but when I checked on it for another builder 2 days ago it had gone up to $725.00 . The black and white Airmap 1000 sells for $495.00 , it is the same size as the 2000C but it cannot be upgraded to provide terrain data... it will show tower obstructions however. They are very nice gps units, much less expensive than Garmin 396 and 496 units which have more features but a 3.8" diagonal display. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Members, I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:39 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Here's another point of view: Assuming equal numbers of primed and non-primed planes, which one is more likely: (1) a builder regrets having primed his plane or (2) a builder regrets **not** having primed it?... Now back to your regulard broadcast... Carlos CH601-HD, plans 2.317% already polished Montral, Canada > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for > corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? > I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. > > Tim __________________________________________________ En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Courriel vous offre la meilleure protection possible contre les messages non nollicits http://mail.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Courriel ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:30 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Hi Bob, I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can hold them to the ad when it is printed in error. That sort of stuff is reserved for slick operators who intentionally advertise falsely in the hope of a "Bait and Switch" scam. The guys at AS&S are really nice and do a good job of keeping prices down for the stuff we all need to build our planes. You might do well to buy the Airmap 500 which is really for sale at the $399 price. I have one and love it. It has a small black & white screen, but it still gives great navigation capability. I bought it with the idea of learning how to use the GPS system before finishing my plane - as part of updating my skills after 15 years on the ground. Still, I think it would be a fine instrument to use for VFR navigation. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 09:00 AM 8/26/2006, you wrote: >Ed, > If you look at the ad in July 2006 issue of Sport Pilot on the > back cover it does not say 500, or 1000, it does say Lowrence > 2000c. I also says in the same that it's a 256 color display. I > just called Aircraft Spruce and talked to someone in Avionics who > told me that the add was printed than way in error. > I am not a lawyer so I may not be correctly informed but I > have heard that if a vendor advertises a product at a certain > price, he is bound by law to sell the product for that price. If > there are any lawyers on the net, I sure would like to know if > this information is correct. > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:47 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Tim, It is said that 6061 aluminum might be all right without primer between riveted surfaces. The advantage of coating them with a primer is that the chemistry of where you live, coastal or industrial areas is less a concern. Both these areas are a good reason for priming close contact surfaces. These will stay moist for long periods of time and it's not worth the risk and loss of value for not having done a minimal priming effort. I'd advise priming these areas and any non accessible blind areas if possible. I used a case of zinc chromate from a rattle can. Just some of the exposed areas that will be finish painted (small spots trim tab etc,) require its removal. It doesn't come off that easily, MEK and scotchbrite pads work after a while. Just keep the air moving away from you so you don't breath the stuff. A thin coloration that can be nearly seen through is as good as a heavy coat for corrosion protection. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" >> >>Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for >>corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? >>I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. >> >>Tim >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:54 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" In case you don't know, SEM self etching primer will lift Zinc Chromate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: Re: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > > Tim, > It is said that 6061 aluminum might be all right without primer between > riveted surfaces. The advantage of coating > them with a primer is that the chemistry of where you live, coastal or > industrial areas is less a concern. Both these areas > are a good reason for priming close contact surfaces. These will stay > moist for long periods of time and it's not worth the > risk and loss of value for not having done a minimal priming effort. I'd > advise priming these areas and any non accessible > blind areas if possible. I used a case of zinc chromate from a rattle > can. Just some of the exposed areas that will > be finish painted (small spots trim tab etc,) require its removal. It > doesn't come off that easily, MEK and scotchbrite pads > work after a while. Just keep the air moving away from you so you don't > breath the stuff. A thin coloration that can be > nearly seen through is as good as a heavy coat for corrosion protection. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > >> >> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" >>> >>>Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for >>>corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted >>>together? I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on >>>this point. >>> >>>Tim >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:54 PM PST US From: MElrod3732@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe units to the inside of the seat backs in my 701 running shielded cable to each strobe light. With the strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear the strobe unit through my headset. I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem and if it could be corrected with filters to the power leads. If so, what type of filters should I buy and where do I get them? Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:14 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation I don't have the ad available to confirm but I'm sure you are correct about its details. As for bluffing them into selling you a Lowrance 2000C for $399.00 I'd bet against it. In most poker games it takes a pair (or better) to open.... this one will take a big pair... of brass ones. Even if the law is on your side, I'm guessing their lawyer can beat up your lawyer without breaking a sweat. Damned shame though.... that would have been a sweet deal. I've generally found that if something looks too good to be true, it actually IS too good to be true. Best of luck, Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Ed, If you look at the ad in July 2006 issue of Sport Pilot on the back cover it does not say 500, or 1000, it does say Lowrence 2000c. I also says in the same that it's a 256 color display. I just called Aircraft Spruce and talked to someone in Avionics who told me that the add was printed than way in error. I am not a lawyer so I may not be correctly informed but I have heard that if a vendor advertises a product at a certain price, he is bound by law to sell the product for that price. If there are any lawyers on the net, I sure would like to know if this information is correct. Bob Stone ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:21 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Consider how much easier it is for old eyes to focus on a screen that's a bit larger and the B&W Airmap 1000 may be a good deal too. No terrain info though. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Hi Bob, I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can hold them to the ad when it is printed in error. That sort of stuff is reserved for slick operators who intentionally advertise falsely in the hope of a "Bait and Switch" scam. The guys at AS&S are really nice and do a good job of keeping prices down for the stuff we all need to build our planes. You might do well to buy the Airmap 500 which is really for sale at the $399 price. I have one and love it. It has a small black & white screen, but it still gives great navigation capability. I bought it with the idea of learning how to use the GPS system before finishing my plane - as part of updating my skills after 15 years on the ground. Still, I think it would be a fine instrument to use for VFR navigation. Best regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:26 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise I mounted my strobe power supplies on the spar extension at the wing tip. Saves wire weight and I have no strobe noise. On each wing I ran one ground wire, one 12 volt wire for strobe, and one 12 volt wire for nav lite. I cleared mounting power supplies on the spar extension with ZAC. Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: MElrod3732@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 2:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe units to the inside of the seat backs in my 701 running shielded cable to each strobe light. With the strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear the strobe unit through my headset. I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem and if it could be corrected with filters to the power leads. If so, what type of filters should I buy and where do I get them? Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:15 PM PST US From: Grant Corriveau Subject: Zenith-List: Survivable plane crash... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau In line with "getting out of an overturned 601" ... this is an incredible video of one emergency landing. The plane stopped very fast, but it looked survivable... ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:15 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise Hi Mike, I wouldn't mess around with filters on either the strobe lines or the power to the strobe power supplies. Rather, I would fool around with ground connections between the power supplies and the ground connection to the radio which exhibits the noise. The ground for each of these devices should be a separate cable to the battery or single ground point near the engine. The theory I am using is that the noise comes from impulses in the ground circuit from the power supplies getting to the ground pin on the radio. Other things to play with include checking that the ground on the shield of the wire to the strobe lights is connected only at the power supplies. I presume there are two conductors inside the shield - a "Light" and "Ground" for each strobe light. If you use the shield for power return from the strobe light, then there isn't a shield after all. One more thing to check is the ground connection from your headset to the radio. It should be a direct wire connection to the radio or audio panel. This is definitely not the place to use the aircraft skin as a ground. If all else fails, you might consider adding an assortment of capacitors between the power and ground of the radio and/or audio panel to filter the noise from the strobe from getting into the radio or audio amplifier power supply. The capacitors should include some very small ones (perhaps 100 pF) and some very large ones (perhaps 1,000 mF). The large ones need to be installed with the correct polarity. This shouldn't be necessary since the power supply for the radio should already have these built in. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage >Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe units to the >inside of the seat backs in my 701 running shielded cable to each >strobe light. With the strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear >the strobe unit through my headset. >I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem and if it could >be corrected with filters to the power leads. If so, what type of >filters should I buy and where do I get them? > >Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:43 PM PST US From: "neitzel" Subject: Zenith-List: polish update Greeting all, When I saw the picture of the skin that Carlos had polished it inspired me to get busy. Since it was raining here in Northern Wisconsin this morning I figured this would be a good day to start. I polished the left side of the fuselage from the tail to the door in 5 + 30. The last area that I polished seemed to go pretty fast. Part of the time was spent getting used to the equipment and applying the correct amount of polish. It appears that the five pounds of Rolite will be enoght to do the entire plane. I am very pleased with the results. Makes me glad that I took the plunge with the polish instead of paint. Probably have arms like Popeye when I am done but is good exercise too. A while ago there was a post concerning the UV degradation of brake lines. The brake lines on my Kolb are nylon (not sure which nylon) and it was recommended that the exposed lines be covered. I found a 1/4 inch ID plastic covering (not the split stuff) at a car parts store. I think it was intended to cover wiring looms. It was inexpensive and after 2 + years and 120 hours of flight time the lines are fine. Take care Dick Neitzel Sayner, WI 701 Jab 2200 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool From: johndread@wildblue.net --> Zenith-List message posted by: johndread@wildblue.net The bungee tool is on the Zenith website. John Read`- now building my 701 do not archive I don't know where the bungee > tool is. It might be in the builder made tools, but I can't remember how > to > get there. > > Dave in Salem > 801 working on the wings. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dj45" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:27 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" >> >> Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and now I >> can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set up for >> the >> flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57200#57200 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test From: johndread@wildblue.net --> Zenith-List message posted by: johndread@wildblue.net Works now! do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:16 PM PST US From: 4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:55 PM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe noise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman Mike. I wired my 701 per Aero Electric layout, with a single point ground. That is supposed to stop all that noise, but it didn't. At no point did I use the airframe as a ground. I still had strobe noise in my radio. I put a noise filter from Radio Shack in line with the power for the radio and intercom, that stopped all the noise. Check out the aeroelectric list archives. Mark S. 701/912 Painting ---------------------------------------- Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe units to the inside of the seat backs in my 701 running shielded cable to each strobe light. With the strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear the strobe unit through my headset. I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem and if it could be corrected with filters to the power leads. If so, what type of filters should I buy and where do I get them? Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod __________________________________________________