---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/27/06: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:23 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Jean-Paul Roy) 2. 07:05 AM - RE : polish update (Carlos Sa) 3. 07:33 AM - Overturned 601 (Brian kissinger) 4. 07:35 AM - Progress Update (Bill Howerton) 5. 08:50 AM - Re: polish update (Bill Naumuk) 6. 08:50 AM - 601 XL Wing Tanks (Terry Turnquist) 7. 09:00 AM - Survivable plane crash (Grant Corriveau) 8. 09:28 AM - 601XL Wing Tanks (Terry Turnquist) 9. 10:47 AM - Main gear assembly-500kb (Bill Naumuk) 10. 11:12 AM - Untouched wing kit & completed empanage for sale (Hudsonmusic1@aol.com) 11. 12:12 PM - Rough Starting (Dabusmith@aol.com) 12. 01:17 PM - 601 XL Fuel Tanks (Terry Turnquist) 13. 01:20 PM - Re: Main gear assembly-500kb (Jeff) 14. 01:37 PM - Re: GPS Navigation (Garrou, Douglas) 15. 01:52 PM - Re: 601 XL Fuel Tanks (Paul Mulwitz) 16. 02:12 PM - Re: 601 XL Fuel Tanks (Monty Graves) 17. 02:31 PM - Gear assembly pictures (Bill Naumuk) 18. 02:41 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 08/26/06 () 19. 03:24 PM - RE : Re: polish update (Carlos Sa) 20. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: polish update (Bill Naumuk) 21. 03:50 PM - Polishing (or NOT) (Jaybannist@cs.com) 22. 04:18 PM - Re: Self-etching primer (Tim Juhl) 23. 04:43 PM - Re: Polishing (or NOT) (Gary Boothe) 24. 04:54 PM - Re: 601 XL Fuel Tanks (4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons)) 25. 06:46 PM - Re: Polishing (or NOT) (Jeff) 26. 07:43 PM - Re: Polishing (or NOT) (Craig Payne) 27. 07:52 PM - Re: Polishing (or NOT) (Dave Austin) 28. 10:41 PM - 4-tank fuel flow configuration question (Les Goldner) 29. 11:00 PM - Priming techniques with Alumiprep, Alodine and Zinc Chromate (lwinger) 30. 11:18 PM - Re: Priming techniques with Alumiprep, Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Dave Ruddiman) 31. 11:52 PM - FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question (Les Goldner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:02 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Those things happen Robert. The 2000C seems to me like a good buy anyway. Have a good day do not archive Jean-Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation Jean-Paul, I guess the thing that fooled me is the fact that the picture in the add shown on the back page of Sport Pilot and the picture of the 2000c in the Acft Spruce catalog look alike. Bob Stone ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:52 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Zenith-List: polish update --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Good morning, Dick It looks like you did a good 2 sqft/h. Would you agree with the estimate? (I have no idea of the dimensions of a 701) Regards Carlos --- neitzel a crit : > Greeting all, > > When I saw the picture of the skin that Carlos had polished it inspired me to get busy. Since > it was raining here in Northern Wisconsin this morning I figured this would be a good day to > start. I polished the left side of the fuselage from the tail to the door in 5 + 30. The last > area that I polished seemed to go pretty fast. Part of the time was spent getting used to the > equipment and applying the correct amount of polish. It appears that the five pounds of Rolite > will be enoght to do the entire plane. I am very pleased with the results. Makes me glad that > I took the plunge with the polish instead of paint. Probably have arms like Popeye when I am > done but is good exercise too. > > A while ago there was a post concerning the UV degradation of brake lines. The brake lines on > my Kolb are nylon (not sure which nylon) and it was recommended that the exposed lines be > covered. I found a 1/4 inch ID plastic covering (not the split stuff) at a car parts store. I > think it was intended to cover wiring looms. It was inexpensive and after 2 + years and 120 > hours of flight time the lines are fine. > > Take care > > Dick Neitzel > Sayner, WI > 701 Jab 2200 > > > Do not archive > p4.vert.ukl.yahoo.com uncompressed/chunked Fri Aug 25 19:23:50 GMT 2006 __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:13 AM PST US From: Brian kissinger Subject: Zenith-List: Overturned 601 Good comments Gary. There are a lot of things to worry about. Good training, landing normally (even in the tops of trees, on top of a K-Mart, in a parking lot, on a road, in a field, etc) will help alleviate some concerns and might save your bacon some day and help reduce the possibility of flipping. I remember a Cessna 150 in the early 90s that landed on top of a K-mart department store in California. The instructor and student lost power after takeoff and couldn't make the field so they landed straight ahead...the only place was on top of a store. Both walked away with minor damage to the plane. Cheers, Brian --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:59 AM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Zenith-List: Progress Update I know I haven't been very good at keeping my website updated, but I just put up a big update on my progress. Bottom line, on a Spring/Summer's morning, I'd rather head out to the airport to work on my plane than spend that time updating a website. But rest assured, I absolutely HAVE been making progress. Anyway, Since my last update, I moved into a hangar; finished my wings; installed the engine; and installed the panel. Check it out: http://bill.howerton.com/zodiac/zodiac_main.htm ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:53 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: polish update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Carlos- If you're polishing, how do you cover up little mistakes? I have a smiley on the leading edge of my stab, an extra hole in the middle of nowhere on my right outboard wing (Have NO idea where that came from!!) and I figure an ounce or so of fiberglass putty per side will make my outboard tips look much better. I suppose I could just apply trim where necessary, but then when you gave everything a routine polish you'd take off the trim. In addition, you personally polished before assembly. Will it be harder later on down the line? Thoughts? do not archive Bill Naumuk 42.5%HDS Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: RE : Zenith-List: polish update > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Good morning, Dick > > > It looks like you did a good 2 sqft/h. > Would you agree with the estimate? (I have no idea of the dimensions of a > 701) > > Regards > > Carlos > > --- neitzel a crit : > >> Greeting all, >> >> When I saw the picture of the skin that Carlos had polished it inspired >> me to get busy. Since >> it was raining here in Northern Wisconsin this morning I figured this >> would be a good day to >> start. I polished the left side of the fuselage from the tail to the >> door in 5 + 30. The last >> area that I polished seemed to go pretty fast. Part of the time was >> spent getting used to the >> equipment and applying the correct amount of polish. It appears that the >> five pounds of Rolite >> will be enoght to do the entire plane. I am very pleased with the >> results. Makes me glad that >> I took the plunge with the polish instead of paint. Probably have arms >> like Popeye when I am >> done but is good exercise too. >> >> A while ago there was a post concerning the UV degradation of brake >> lines. The brake lines on >> my Kolb are nylon (not sure which nylon) and it was recommended that the >> exposed lines be >> covered. I found a 1/4 inch ID plastic covering (not the split stuff) at >> a car parts store. I >> think it was intended to cover wiring looms. It was inexpensive and >> after 2 + years and 120 >> hours of flight time the lines are fine. >> >> Take care >> >> Dick Neitzel >> Sayner, WI >> 701 Jab 2200 >> >> >> Do not archive >> > > > p4.vert.ukl.yahoo.com uncompressed/chunked Fri Aug 25 19:23:50 GMT 2006 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:56 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Wing Tanks Hi Plans builders, could I get an estimate on the cost of having the fuel tanks welded professionally, minus material costs? Thanks. Terry Turnquist 601 XL Plans St. Peters, MO __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:31 AM PST US From: Grant Corriveau Subject: Zenith-List: Survivable plane crash This time let me try it with the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhObTONKX7E > In line with "getting out of an overturned 601" ... this is an > incredible video of one emergency landing. The plane stopped very > fast, but it looked survivable... ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:10 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Tanks Hi List, can a couple of scratch builders give me an estimate for the cost of outsourcing the welding of the gas tanks, minus materials? Thanks Terry Turnquist 601 XL Plans St Peters, MO do not archive __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:24 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Main gear assembly-500kb ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:48 AM PST US From: Hudsonmusic1@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Untouched wing kit & completed empanage for sale I regretfully offer my new untouched 601XL wing kit and completed ( from a kit) empanage for sale. The wing kit has the aileron trim option. My tools and plans do not go with it. I am located in central , Ky. $6000.00 firm. Call or e-mail me for more details. Jeff Hudson 502-8572218 Cell # 502-316-3372 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:04 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Rough Starting 434.681254f_alt_bound-- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:40 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Fuel Tanks OK, I'll try one more time! Scratch Builders..What's a usual and customary price to pay to have both tanks welded, including fixtures installed? Thanks. Terry Turnquist 601 XL Plans St. Peters, MO Do not archive --------------------------------- Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:29 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Main gear assembly-500kb --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " Bill, Although Matt says that he is allowing 2MB files to come through, I didn't get the pictures. I don't know why half a megabyte wouldn't make it. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Main gear assembly-500kb ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation From: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" I can only speak to U.S. law based on my hazy recall from law school. I.e., all caveats apply. But here goes: Generally a seller can be held to an advertised price, even if the price is printed in error. However -- big however -- because of that rule, virtually every catalogue known to man has a disclaimer somewhere about misprints, etc. That disclaimer is generally effective to protect the seller from good-faith errors. Meanwhile, the law protects consumers from bad-faith "errors" by a seller -- e.g., some kind of scam where the seller advertises a low price, gets you into the store, and refuses to honor it. It's well worth reading about that law from time to time, to understand the consumer's rights and to get a feel for the scams that are out there in the marketplace. I often do that before making a major purchase. Here's a good summary of "bait advertising," for example: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm And there is a LOT of GREAT summary info here: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/menu-prod.htm Cheers Doug G. Project801 -----Original Message----- Time: 09:03:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation [snip] I am not a lawyer so I may not be correctly informed but I have heard that if a vendor advertises a product at a certain price, he is bound by law to sell the product for that price. If there are any lawyers on the net, I sure would like to know if this information is correct. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:05 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Fuel Tanks My local EAA chapter (782) just had a meeting featuring an experienced welder and all his equipment and shop. I don't know exactly what he would charge to weld two tanks, but I do know it would be based on an hourly rate of around $60. That means it wouldn't cost you very much if you supply all the parts prepared to be welded an he only has to actually do the welding. If you just give him the drawing and ask for two tanks it would cost a great deal more. If you want the best price for a complete job including leak testing after the welding is done, I suggest you order them from Zenith. They have lots of experience and all the necessary fixtures already in place. They might even be able to ship you the tanks in just a few days. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 01:16 PM 8/27/2006, you wrote: >OK, I'll try one more time! Scratch Builders..What's a usual and >customary price to pay to have both tanks welded, including fixtures >installed? Thanks. > > >Terry Turnquist >601 XL Plans >St. Peters, MO > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:08 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Fuel Tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves It takes a good alum tig welder 6-7 hours to weld and test both tanks...I doubt anyone can do it much faster lets say..@ aprox 30 per hour............ $150-200. A local guy did my 701 tanks, in 6 hrs and I bought lunch...... and I helped with the fit up and pre clean up before welding and he charged me $150 He did a really nice job...... I had all the pieces fitting really well encluding all the holes for the fittings, and filler neck...... However I used .040 5053 (i think don't hold me to it) alum on his advice to make the tanks......instead of the 6061 which according to him is a lot harder to weld........ Welder was in Jefferson City MO, if you can't find some near St. Peters Monty At 01:16 PM 8/27/2006 -0700, you wrote: >OK, I'll try one more time! Scratch Builders..What's a usual and customary >price to pay to have both tanks welded, including fixtures installed? Thanks. > > >Terry Turnquist >601 XL Plans >St. Peters, MO > >Do not archive > >Get on board. >You're >invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:50 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Gear assembly pictures Doesn't look like they go to the list well. Contact me if you want them. Bill Naumuk 42.5%HDS Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:52 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 08/26/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: ---- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-08-26.html > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-08-26.txt > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 08/26/06: 31 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:10 AM - Re: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL, Strong enough... (Gary Gower) > 2. 03:51 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Leakage Test (Martin Pohl) > 3. 05:14 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robin Bellach) > 4. 05:51 AM - battery location (Jean-Paul Roy) > 5. 06:02 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robin Bellach) > 6. 06:11 AM - Test (Bill Naumuk) > 7. 06:26 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Jean-Paul Roy) > 8. 06:40 AM - Gear box installation (Bill Naumuk) > 9. 07:05 AM - Re: Gear box installation (David Mikesell) > 10. 07:59 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robert L. Stone) > 11. 08:07 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Todd Osborne) > 12. 08:15 AM - Re: Self-etching primer (Dave and Jan Clay) > 13. 08:29 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) > 14. 08:41 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) > 15. 08:48 AM - Re: Self-etching primer (Edward Moody II) > 16. 09:03 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Robert L. Stone) > 17. 10:16 AM - RE : Re: Self-etching primer (Carlos Sa) > 18. 10:43 AM - Re: GPS Navigation (Paul Mulwitz) > 19. 11:27 AM - Re: RE : Re: Self-etching primer (LarryMcFarland) > 20. 11:58 AM - Re: RE : Re: Self-etching primer (Dave Ruddiman) > 21. 12:28 PM - Strobe light audio noise (MElrod3732@aol.com) > 22. 12:48 PM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) > 23. 01:03 PM - Re: GPS Navigation (Edward Moody II) > 24. 01:54 PM - Re: Strobe light audio noise (Chuck Deiterich) > 25. 03:20 PM - Survivable plane crash... (Grant Corriveau) > 26. 03:20 PM - Re: Strobe light audio noise (Paul Mulwitz) > 27. 04:23 PM - polish update (neitzel) > 28. 04:30 PM - Re: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool (johndread@wildblue.net) > 29. 04:46 PM - Re: Test (johndread@wildblue.net) > 30. 06:28 PM - Re: Strobe light audio noise (4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons)) > 31. 10:16 PM - Strobe noise (Mark Sherman) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:10:22 AM PST US > From: Gary Gower > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Getting out of an overturned XL, Strong enough... > > I have already made a comment about this some time ago... Hope is in the archives, > If I didnt put the "do not..". > > As short as possible: > > Planes are designed to fly not to crash or roll over. First because is very important > to fly it down, If you fly it down it will touch down (even in an emergency > out of airport) at a slow speed (one good point of the Zentih Aircrafts) > that it will absobe the energy (G,s over yor body) and IF it rols over it will > do it in "slow motion" so the rudder and/or fuselage will protect you. > > In the remote case of a crash in an uncontroled manner, the inertia and speed > will build up so fast (in any airplane, from ultralights up) that even if the > unfortunate pilot is flying a winged Daytona stock car will the huge roll cage, > his/her fragile body will not survive the impact G's... > > So in case of emergency landing because an engine off: Keep calm, remember your > classes, keep control of the airplane, fly the airplane down, fly the airplane > down, fly the airplane down ALL THE WAY until it stops. > > If you fail your aproach, dont be shy to aply power and try again, instead of > unsuccesfuly trying to stop the over shooted airplane in the last 100 ft of strip > before the front wheel hits the ditch at the end :-) :-) I WILL roll > over! > > When ever you dont have a place to go flying, instead of just burning gas, go to > a little airtrip (if your airport is big and lots of traffic) and practice > dead stick landings to the numbers, this fun trainning, will pay in the very > rare case you ever suffer a engine out landing... > > One last thing, The ZAC airplanes are the more "landing friendly" airplanes in > his class. > > Saludos > Gary Gower > 701 912S , building a 601 XL. > Flying from Chapala, Mexico. > > Craig Payne wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: > "Craig Payne" > > I think that if you look at the photo I linked to the supporting hoops > behind the seats did not collapse. I believe someone on the list actually > inspected that particular plane after it flipped. So maybe they can provide > more information. > > www.ch601.org/stories.htm > > Van's is featuring the roll bar in the (unreleased) rv-12 but (judging by > the small photographs on the Van's site) I don't see any more roll-over > protection in the pictures of the rv-3, rv-4, rv-6, rv-8 or rv-9 than the > 601XL has. In most of these I see a single, large-ish tube between the > fixed, forward portion of the canopy and the rear, movable portion. I would > predict that the two interlocked tubes on the XL would be less likely to > fold forward or backward. Can anyone with more hands-on knowledge of the > various Van's models comment? Any pictures out there of flipped rv's? > > -- Craig > > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:51:41 AM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Tank Leakage Test > From: "Martin Pohl" > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" > > Thank you for all your ideas. Will try how that works... > > Cheers Martin > > -------- > Martin Pohl > Zodiac XL QBK > 8645 Jona, Switzerland > www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57469#57469 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:14:51 AM PST US > From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > Bob, > 11-02222 is $399 in the regular catalog. It's the AirMap 500 handheld > with 3" black and white 240x180 LED display. 11-02222 is the AirMap > 2000C with 5" 386-color 320x240 TFT display. These definitely ARE NOT > the same unit. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Stone > To: Zenith List > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Members, > I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the > qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and > written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find > interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing > that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by > Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This > price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of > EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular > catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number > 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a > GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I > have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is > ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am > going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:51:09 AM PST US > From: "Jean-Paul Roy" > Subject: Zenith-List: battery location > > Hello. Some days ago, someone was asking if behind the copilot seat was > the only location for the battery. Someone mentionned that because of > W&B the battery may even have to be located in the tail. Accessing the > tail seems/is a real problem. I found the solution on Larry Martin's 701 > site. > > http://www.skyhawg.com/reardoor.html > > Hope this helps > > Jean-Paul Roy > 701-working on wings > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:02:23 AM PST US > From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > OOPS! 11-02824 is 2000C. I can't get it right either! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robin Bellach > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 7:13 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Bob, > 11-02222 is $399 in the regular catalog. It's the AirMap 500 handheld > with 3" black and white 240x180 LED display. 11-02222 is the AirMap > 2000C with 5" 386-color 320x240 TFT display. These definitely ARE NOT > the same unit. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Stone > To: Zenith List > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Members, > I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the > qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and > written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find > interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing > that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by > Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This > price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of > EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular > catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number > 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a > GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I > have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is > ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am > going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:11:43 AM PST US > From: "Bill Naumuk" > Subject: Zenith-List: Test > > I've been having e-mail problems since the spinoff of Windstream from > Alltel. Let's see if this works. > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > 42.5%HDS > Townville, Pa > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:26:41 AM PST US > From: "Jean-Paul Roy" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > Hi Robert. The fact is the number 11-02222 from ACS is a Lowrance AirMap > 500 @ $399.00. It is a black and white display GPS. > > > The number 11-02824 is indeed a > LOWRANCE AIRMAP 2000C @ $999.00. It is a colour display GPS. > > Hope this clarify things. > > Regards > > Jean-Paul Roy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Stone > To: Zenith List > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 1:29 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Members, > I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the > qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and > written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find > interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing > that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by > Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This > price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of > EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular > catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number > 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a > GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I > have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is > ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am > going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:40:12 AM PST US > From: "Bill Naumuk" > Subject: Zenith-List: Gear box installation > > HD+HDS builders- > Aha! Windstream finally found the trouble with my e-mail account > Last week, I managed to get all the bolts into the main gearboxes > and documented the procedure. If anyone wants a step by step method of > getting the little puppies in without getting so frustrated you wind up > beating your wife and kicking the dog, let me know and I'll send it to > you. Lots of pictures- it probably belongs in the archives, but don't > want to ruffle any feathers. > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > 42.5%HDS > Townville, Pa > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:05:04 AM PST US > From: "David Mikesell" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gear box installation > > I will definitely take a copy, thanks. > > David Mikesell > 23597 N. Hwy 99 > Acampo, CA 95220 > 209-609-8774 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Naumuk > To: zenith list > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:39 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Gear box installation > > > HD+HDS builders- > Aha! Windstream finally found the trouble with my e-mail account > Last week, I managed to get all the bolts into the main gearboxes > and documented the procedure. If anyone wants a step by step method of > getting the little puppies in without getting so frustrated you wind up > beating your wife and kicking the dog, let me know and I'll send it to > you. Lots of pictures- it probably belongs in the archives, but don't > want to ruffle any feathers. > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > 42.5%HDS > Townville, Pa > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:59:32 AM PST US > From: "Robert L. Stone" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > Jean-Paul, > I guess the thing that fooled me is the fact that the picture in > the add shown on the back page of Sport Pilot and the picture of the > 2000c in the Acft Spruce catalog look alike. > > Bob Stone > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jean-Paul Roy > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 8:33 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Hi Robert. The fact is the number 11-02222 from ACS is a Lowrance > AirMap 500 @ $399.00. It is a black and white display GPS. > > > The number 11-02824 is indeed a > LOWRANCE AIRMAP 2000C @ $999.00. It is a colour display GPS. > > Hope this clarify things. > > Regards > > Jean-Paul Roy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Stone > To: Zenith List > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 1:29 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Members, > I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the > qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and > written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find > interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing > that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by > Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This > price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of > EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular > catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number > 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a > GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I > have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is > ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am > going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:07:56 AM PST US > From: Todd Osborne > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > > I have not used the 2000, but I own the Lowrance 1000 and can say that I > love it. The only complaint I have is the MapCreate software that comes > with it is not good, but you don't need that for aviation use anyway. > The GPS is terrific, VERY easy to use and read, I have nothing but good > things to say about it. > > Todd > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:15:03 AM PST US > From: "Dave and Jan Clay" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" > > Well, here's my 2 cents worth. I started out using zinc chromate, but > switched to the NAPA self-etching primer. Number one reason...better > adhesion (with same prep). I prep with Scotch-Brite followed by cleaning > with acetone. The zinc chromate is easy to scratch off. The self etching > primer is virtually bullet proof. It really sticks. The NAPA primer is cheap > and readily available. I'm sure there are better (i.e. more expensive) > alternatives, but any primer should be better than no primer. > > Dave Clay > Temple, TX > Ch601XL Scratch builder > www.daves601xl.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo > ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com/ > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:29:53 AM PST US > From: "Edward Moody II" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > Here's the straight info Bob, and anyone else interested. The A.S. part > number 11-0222 listed for $399.00 is accurate. Unfortunately it is > accurate for the Lowrance Airmap 500..... a black and white unit with a > 3" diagonal screen and far fewer features. > > The Airmap 2000C has a color display, 5" diagonal screen, a crapload > more features including terrain and obstruction awareness, and the > Aircraft Spruce price is $999.00 . The best price I have seen for this > item (the 2000C) is at Marv Golden. It was about $690 a week ago but > when I checked on it for another builder 2 days ago it had gone up to > $725.00 . The black and white Airmap 1000 sells for $495.00 , it is the > same size as the 2000C but it cannot be upgraded to provide terrain > data... it will show tower obstructions however. > > They are very nice gps units, much less expensive than Garmin 396 and > 496 units which have more features but a 3.8" diagonal display. > > Ed Moody II > Rayne, LA > 601XL / fuselage > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Stone > To: Zenith List > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Members, > I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the > qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and > written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find > interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing > that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by > Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This > price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of > EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular > catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number > 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a > GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I > have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is > ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am > going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:41:07 AM PST US > From: "Edward Moody II" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" > > The Map Create software that comes with the 2000C is slow and cumbersome to > load onto a card but if you limit the size of the map file it works okay and > allows very useful operation on land / water. You will be allowed to > register only five cards to the program so I advise buying big ones..... I > bought three 1 gig SD cards so far and have been happy with them. > > Ed Moody II > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > > > > I have not used the 2000, but I own the Lowrance 1000 and can say that I > > love it. The only complaint I have is the MapCreate software that comes > > with it is not good, but you don't need that for aviation use anyway. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:48:57 AM PST US > From: "Edward Moody II" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" > > Regarding use of primer alone, remember that the primer has little or no UV > resistance by itself. It will only hold up long term on the inside or an > overlap area. I do agree that whether or not it really makes a big > difference in aircraft durability and corrosion resistance, it can't hurt, > and it is likely to be a positive factor in a resale situation. > > For what it's worth, my prep has been wipe clean twice with denatured > alcohol, then once more with laquer thinner, no scuffing at all (scratches > in the surface are pointless and will not produce much real benefit... the > etching produces way more adhesive surface) then spray according > manufacturer's directions with ventilation and a charcoal filter mask. > > Ed Moody II > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" > > > > > > Well, here's my 2 cents worth. I started out using zinc chromate, but > > switched to the NAPA self-etching primer. Number one reason...better > > adhesion (with same prep). I prep with Scotch-Brite followed by cleaning > > with acetone. The zinc chromate is easy to scratch off. The self etching > > primer is virtually bullet proof. It really sticks. The NAPA primer is > > cheap and readily available. I'm sure there are better (i.e. more > > expensive) alternatives, but any primer should be better than no primer. > > > > Dave Clay > > Temple, TX > > Ch601XL Scratch builder > > www.daves601xl.com > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:03:17 AM PST US > From: "Robert L. Stone" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > Ed, > If you look at the ad in July 2006 issue of Sport Pilot on the back > cover it does not say 500, or 1000, it does say Lowrence 2000c. I also > says in the same that it's a 256 color display. I just called Aircraft > Spruce and talked to someone in Avionics who told me that the add was > printed than way in error. > I am not a lawyer so I may not be correctly informed but I have > heard that if a vendor advertises a product at a certain price, he is > bound by law to sell the product for that price. If there are any > lawyers on the net, I sure would like to know if this information is > correct. > > Bob Stone > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Edward Moody II > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Here's the straight info Bob, and anyone else interested. The A.S. > part number 11-0222 listed for $399.00 is accurate. Unfortunately it is > accurate for the Lowrance Airmap 500..... a black and white unit with a > 3" diagonal screen and far fewer features. > > The Airmap 2000C has a color display, 5" diagonal screen, a crapload > more features including terrain and obstruction awareness, and the > Aircraft Spruce price is $999.00 . The best price I have seen for this > item (the 2000C) is at Marv Golden. It was about $690 a week ago but > when I checked on it for another builder 2 days ago it had gone up to > $725.00 . The black and white Airmap 1000 sells for $495.00 , it is the > same size as the 2000C but it cannot be upgraded to provide terrain > data... it will show tower obstructions however. > > They are very nice gps units, much less expensive than Garmin 396 and > 496 units which have more features but a 3.8" diagonal display. > > Ed Moody II > Rayne, LA > 601XL / fuselage > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Stone > To: Zenith List > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:29 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Members, > I seem to remember seeing some traffic on the net about the > qualities of the Lowrance Airmap 2000c. All was complimentary and > written by owners of one of these GPS units. The thing that I find > interesting is the prices quoted were up around $600.00 plus. The thing > that makes this price interesting is the same unit is being sold by > Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $399.00, Part number 11-02222. This > price is in an add on the back outside page of the July 2006 issue of > EAA Sport Pilot. The exact same GPS is in the Aircraft Spruce regular > catalog, on page 466 bottom left at a price of $999.00, Part number > 11-02824. I just thought if any of you guys are in the market for a > GPS, a 600 dollar reduction in price is well worth knowing about. I > have a Garmin 296 GPS unit that I intend to use when my ZodiacXL is > ready to fly. It will be either the primary or backup because I am > going to get one of those Lowrance 2000c GPS units. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:16:39 AM PST US > From: Carlos Sa > Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Here's another point of view: > > Assuming equal numbers of primed and non-primed planes, which one is more likely: > (1) a builder > regrets having primed his plane or (2) a builder regrets **not** having primed > it?... > > > Now back to your regulard broadcast... > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > 2.317% already polished > Montral, Canada > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > > > Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for > > corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? > > I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. > > > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Courriel vous offre la meilleure protection possible > contre les messages non nollicits > http://mail.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Courriel > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:43:30 AM PST US > From: Paul Mulwitz > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > Hi Bob, > > I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can hold them to the ad when it > is printed in error. That sort of stuff is reserved for slick > operators who intentionally advertise falsely in the hope of a "Bait > and Switch" scam. > > The guys at AS&S are really nice and do a good job of keeping prices > down for the stuff we all need to build our planes. > > You might do well to buy the Airmap 500 which is really for sale at > the $399 price. I have one and love it. It has a small black & > white screen, but it still gives great navigation capability. I > bought it with the idea of learning how to use the GPS system before > finishing my plane - as part of updating my skills after 15 years on > the ground. Still, I think it would be a fine instrument to use for > VFR navigation. > > Best regards, > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > > At 09:00 AM 8/26/2006, you wrote: > >Ed, > > If you look at the ad in July 2006 issue of Sport Pilot on the > > back cover it does not say 500, or 1000, it does say Lowrence > > 2000c. I also says in the same that it's a 256 color display. I > > just called Aircraft Spruce and talked to someone in Avionics who > > told me that the add was printed than way in error. > > I am not a lawyer so I may not be correctly informed but I > > have heard that if a vendor advertises a product at a certain > > price, he is bound by law to sell the product for that price. If > > there are any lawyers on the net, I sure would like to know if > > this information is correct. > > > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Mulwitz > 32013 NE Dial Road > Camas, WA 98607 > --------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:27:47 AM PST US > From: LarryMcFarland > Subject: Re: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > > Tim, > It is said that 6061 aluminum might be all right without primer between > riveted surfaces. The advantage of coating > them with a primer is that the chemistry of where you live, coastal or > industrial areas is less a concern. Both these areas > are a good reason for priming close contact surfaces. These will stay > moist for long periods of time and it's not worth the > risk and loss of value for not having done a minimal priming effort. > I'd advise priming these areas and any non accessible > blind areas if possible. I used a case of zinc chromate from a rattle > can. Just some of the exposed areas that will > be finish painted (small spots trim tab etc,) require its removal. It > doesn't come off that easily, MEK and scotchbrite pads > work after a while. Just keep the air moving away from you so you don't > breath the stuff. A thin coloration that can be > nearly seen through is as good as a heavy coat for corrosion protection. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > > > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > >> > >>Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for > >>corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted together? > >>I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on this point. > >> > >>Tim > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:58:54 AM PST US > From: "Dave Ruddiman" > Subject: Re: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > In case you don't know, SEM self etching primer will lift Zinc Chromate. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LarryMcFarland" > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:26 AM > Subject: Re: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Self-etching primer > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > > > > > Tim, > > It is said that 6061 aluminum might be all right without primer between > > riveted surfaces. The advantage of coating > > them with a primer is that the chemistry of where you live, coastal or > > industrial areas is less a concern. Both these areas > > are a good reason for priming close contact surfaces. These will stay > > moist for long periods of time and it's not worth the > > risk and loss of value for not having done a minimal priming effort. I'd > > advise priming these areas and any non accessible > > blind areas if possible. I used a case of zinc chromate from a rattle > > can. Just some of the exposed areas that will > > be finish painted (small spots trim tab etc,) require its removal. It > > doesn't come off that easily, MEK and scotchbrite pads > > work after a while. Just keep the air moving away from you so you don't > > breath the stuff. A thin coloration that can be > > nearly seen through is as good as a heavy coat for corrosion protection. > > > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > >> > >> > >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > >>> > >>>Any opinions pro or con about using aerosol self-etching primer for > >>>corrosion protection on internal surfaces that are to be riveted > >>>together? I checked the archives but what I found was inconclusive on > >>>this point. > >>> > >>>Tim > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:28:54 PM PST US > From: MElrod3732@aol.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise > > Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe units to the inside > of the seat backs in my 701 running shielded cable to each strobe light. With > > the strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear the strobe unit through my > headset. > I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem and if it could be > corrected with filters to the power leads. If so, what type of filters should > I > buy and where do I get them? > > Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:48:14 PM PST US > From: "Edward Moody II" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > I don't have the ad available to confirm but I'm sure you are correct > about its details. As for bluffing them into selling you a Lowrance > 2000C for $399.00 I'd bet against it. In most poker games it takes a > pair (or better) to open.... this one will take a big pair... of brass > ones. > > Even if the law is on your side, I'm guessing their lawyer can beat up > your lawyer without breaking a sweat. Damned shame though.... that would > have been a sweet deal. I've generally found that if something looks too > good to be true, it actually IS too good to be true. > > Best of luck, > > Ed > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Stone > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Ed, > If you look at the ad in July 2006 issue of Sport Pilot on the > back cover it does not say 500, or 1000, it does say Lowrence 2000c. I > also says in the same that it's a 256 color display. I just called > Aircraft Spruce and talked to someone in Avionics who told me that the > add was printed than way in error. > I am not a lawyer so I may not be correctly informed but I have > heard that if a vendor advertises a product at a certain price, he is > bound by law to sell the product for that price. If there are any > lawyers on the net, I sure would like to know if this information is > correct. > > Bob Stone > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:03:21 PM PST US > From: "Edward Moody II" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > Consider how much easier it is for old eyes to focus on a screen that's > a bit larger and the B&W Airmap 1000 may be a good deal too. No terrain > info though. > > Ed > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Mulwitz > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:44 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GPS Navigation > > > Hi Bob, > > I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can hold them to the ad when it > is printed in error. That sort of stuff is reserved for slick operators > who intentionally advertise falsely in the hope of a "Bait and Switch" > scam. > > The guys at AS&S are really nice and do a good job of keeping prices > down for the stuff we all need to build our planes. > > You might do well to buy the Airmap 500 which is really for sale at > the $399 price. I have one and love it. It has a small black & white > screen, but it still gives great navigation capability. I bought it > with the idea of learning how to use the GPS system before finishing my > plane - as part of updating my skills after 15 years on the ground. > Still, I think it would be a fine instrument to use for VFR navigation. > > Best regards, > > Paul > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:54:26 PM PST US > From: "Chuck Deiterich" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise > > I mounted my strobe power supplies on the spar extension at the wing > tip. Saves wire weight and I have no strobe noise. On each wing I ran > one ground wire, one 12 volt wire for strobe, and one 12 volt wire for > nav lite. I cleared mounting power supplies on the spar extension with > ZAC. > Chuck D. > N701TX > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MElrod3732@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 2:27 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise > > > Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe units to the > inside of the seat backs in my 701 running shielded cable to each strobe > light. With the strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear the strobe > unit through my headset. > I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem and if it could > be corrected with filters to the power leads. If so, what type of > filters should I buy and where do I get them? > > Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:20:15 PM PST US > From: Grant Corriveau > Subject: Zenith-List: Survivable plane crash... > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > In line with "getting out of an overturned 601" ... this is an > incredible video of one emergency landing. The plane stopped very > fast, but it looked survivable... > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:20:15 PM PST US > From: Paul Mulwitz > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise > > Hi Mike, > > I wouldn't mess around with filters on either the strobe lines or the > power to the strobe power supplies. Rather, I would fool around with > ground connections between the power supplies and the ground > connection to the radio which exhibits the noise. The ground for > each of these devices should be a separate cable to the battery or > single ground point near the engine. > > The theory I am using is that the noise comes from impulses in the > ground circuit from the power supplies getting to the ground pin on the radio. > > Other things to play with include checking that the ground on the > shield of the wire to the strobe lights is connected only at the > power supplies. I presume there are two conductors inside the shield > - a "Light" and "Ground" for each strobe light. If you use the > shield for power return from the strobe light, then there isn't a > shield after all. > > One more thing to check is the ground connection from your headset to > the radio. It should be a direct wire connection to the radio or > audio panel. This is definitely not the place to use the aircraft > skin as a ground. > > If all else fails, you might consider adding an assortment of > capacitors between the power and ground of the radio and/or audio > panel to filter the noise from the strobe from getting into the radio > or audio amplifier power supply. The capacitors should include some > very small ones (perhaps 100 pF) and some very large ones (perhaps > 1,000 mF). The large ones need to be installed with the correct > polarity. This shouldn't be necessary since the power supply for the > radio should already have these built in. > > Good luck, > > Paul > XL fuselage > > > >Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe units to the > >inside of the seat backs in my 701 running shielded cable to each > >strobe light. With the strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear > >the strobe unit through my headset. > >I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem and if it could > >be corrected with filters to the power leads. If so, what type of > >filters should I buy and where do I get them? > > > >Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:23:43 PM PST US > From: "neitzel" > Subject: Zenith-List: polish update > > Greeting all, > > When I saw the picture of the skin that Carlos had polished it inspired > me to get busy. Since it was raining here in Northern Wisconsin this > morning I figured this would be a good day to start. I polished the > left side of the fuselage from the tail to the door in 5 + 30. The last > area that I polished seemed to go pretty fast. Part of the time was > spent getting used to the equipment and applying the correct amount of > polish. It appears that the five pounds of Rolite will be enoght to do > the entire plane. I am very pleased with the results. Makes me glad > that I took the plunge with the polish instead of paint. Probably have > arms like Popeye when I am done but is good exercise too. > > A while ago there was a post concerning the UV degradation of brake > lines. The brake lines on my Kolb are nylon (not sure which nylon) and > it was recommended that the exposed lines be covered. I found a 1/4 > inch ID plastic covering (not the split stuff) at a car parts store. I > think it was intended to cover wiring looms. It was inexpensive and > after 2 + years and 120 hours of flight time the lines are fine. > > Take care > > Dick Neitzel > Sayner, WI > 701 Jab 2200 > > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:30:40 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool > From: johndread@wildblue.net > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: johndread@wildblue.net > > The bungee tool is on the Zenith website. > > John Read`- now building my 701 > > do not archive > > > I don't know where the bungee > > tool is. It might be in the builder made tools, but I can't remember how > > to > > get there. > > > > Dave in Salem > > 801 working on the wings. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "dj45" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:27 AM > > Subject: Zenith-List: slotless flaplaron & Bungee tool > > > > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" > >> > >> Hi all, sometime ago I saw a tool to install the bungee cord, and now I > >> can't find it again. Getting old I guess. Also there was a set up for > >> the > >> flap arm to do away with the slot. Anyone know where these are? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57200#57200 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:46:31 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test > From: johndread@wildblue.net > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: johndread@wildblue.net > > Works now! > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:28:16 PM PST US > From: 4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe light audio noise > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:16:55 PM PST US > From: Mark Sherman > Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe noise > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman > > Mike. > > I wired my 701 per Aero Electric layout, with a single > point ground. That is supposed to stop all that > noise, but it didn't. At no point did I use the > airframe as a ground. I still had strobe noise in my > radio. I put a noise filter from Radio Shack in line > with the power for the radio and intercom, that > stopped all the noise. > > Check out the aeroelectric list archives. > > Mark S. > 701/912 > Painting > > ---------------------------------------- > > Hello fellow builders: I mounted the Aero Flash strobe > units to the inside of the seat backs in my 701 > running shielded cable to each strobe light. With the > strobe lights on, I can still faintly hear the strobe > unit through my headset. > I was wondering if anyone else had a similar problem > and if it could be corrected with filters to the power > leads. If so, what type of filters should I buy and > where do I get them? > > Thanks in advance, Mike Elrod > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR MAILING LIST. THANKS BOB MOREFIELD > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:04 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: polish update --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Bill, I have seen several polished planes with trim, and the trim seems to resist the polishing process, G. Pinneo's being one. A polished Cessna in an airport nearby also comes to mind. The smiley will probably be difficult to hide. If it ever happens to me, the particular spot will become a prime candidate for an inspection port (real or fake), depending on the situation... I always thought the first shine (from raw 6061-T6) would be the most difficult, and that if polishing after building is complete, there would be more of a chance of causing slight deformations between ribs or other harder points. Doing the first polish on the workbench, all future polishing work is just for upkeeping and removing "shopping centre rash" type stuff... Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada --- Bill Naumuk a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > Carlos- > If you're polishing, how do you cover up little mistakes? I have a > smiley on the leading edge of my stab, an extra hole in the middle of > nowhere on my right outboard wing (Have NO idea where that came from!!) and > I figure an ounce or so of fiberglass putty per side will make my outboard > tips look much better. I suppose I could just apply trim where necessary, > but then when you gave everything a routine polish you'd take off the trim. > In addition, you personally polished before assembly. Will it be harder > later on down the line? > Thoughts? > > Bill Naumuk p4.vert.ukl.yahoo.com uncompressed/chunked Sun Aug 27 21:23:44 GMT 2006 __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: polish update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Carlos- Unfortunately, you can't put an inspection port on a leading edge. You could trim your leading edges, though. Bill Naumuk 42.5%HDS Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: polish update > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Bill, I have seen several polished planes with trim, and the trim seems to > resist the polishing > process, G. Pinneo's being one. > A polished Cessna in an airport nearby also comes to mind. > > The smiley will probably be difficult to hide. If it ever happens to me, > the particular spot will > become a prime candidate for an inspection port (real or fake), depending > on the situation... > > I always thought the first shine (from raw 6061-T6) would be the most > difficult, and that if > polishing after building is complete, there would be more of a chance of > causing slight > deformations between ribs or other harder points. > > Doing the first polish on the workbench, all future polishing work is just > for upkeeping and > removing "shopping centre rash" type stuff... > > Cheers > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > Montreal, Canada > > > --- Bill Naumuk a crit : > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >> >> Carlos- >> If you're polishing, how do you cover up little mistakes? I have a >> smiley on the leading edge of my stab, an extra hole in the middle of >> nowhere on my right outboard wing (Have NO idea where that came from!!) >> and >> I figure an ounce or so of fiberglass putty per side will make my >> outboard >> tips look much better. I suppose I could just apply trim where >> necessary, >> but then when you gave everything a routine polish you'd take off the >> trim. >> In addition, you personally polished before assembly. Will it be >> harder >> later on down the line? >> Thoughts? >> >> Bill Naumuk > > > p4.vert.ukl.yahoo.com uncompressed/chunked Sun Aug 27 21:23:44 GMT 2006 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:30 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT) All this talk about painting and the only alternative, polishing, has my head spinning. I know that both these options can produce a very attractive airplane. But does anyone ever consider clean, unpainted, unpolished aluminum? Just a thought. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fusealge ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:06 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Self-etching primer From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" Thanks for your thoughts guys. I believe that corrosion proofing between mating surfaces is a good idea. Most Cessnas I've seen do not have any interior primer or paint and a little mild surface corrosion is usually visible. In a Florida plane I found the areas where moisture could be trapped showed more evidence of corrosion. I made it a point to treat the inside of such aircraft with ACF or a similar mist-on anti corrosion treatment. What I really wanted to know with my question about using self-etching primer between mating surfaces was whether there was any chemistry-related or other reason that would make it's use in this manner a poor idea. It is hard to find zinc chromate or zinc oxide locally so it would be nice to be able to use something that didn't have to be ordered by mail. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Horiz. Stab. & Elev. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57842#57842 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:06 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT) Yuch!!! (just kidding) I'm polishing AND painting.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, wings done, working on c-section Do not archive!! ..does anyone ever consider clean, unpainted, unpolished aluminum? Just a thought. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fusealge ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:18 PM PST US From: 4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Fuel Tanks I decided no to build my tanks and when ordered, I recieved them in right at a week, along with all the other goodies requiredina bag!Well worth it I think! -- Thanks, Rich Simmons -------------- Original message -------------- From: Paul Mulwitz My local EAA chapter (782) just had a meeting featuring an experienced welder and all his equipment and shop. I don't know exactly what he would charge to weld two tanks, but I do know it would be based on an hourly rate of around $60. That means it wouldn't cost you very much if you supply all the parts prepared to be welded an he only has to actually do the welding. If you just give him the drawing and ask for two tanks it would cost a great deal more. If you want the best price for a complete job including leak testing after the welding is done, I suggest you order them from Zenith. They have lots of experience and all the necessary fixtures already in place. They might even be able to ship you the tanks in just a few days. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 01:16 PM 8/27/2006, you wrote: OK, I'll try one more time! Scratch Builders..What's a usual and customary price to pay to have both tanks welded, including fixtures installed? Thanks. Terry Turnquist 601 XL Plans St. Peters, MO
I decided no to build my tanks and when ordered, I recieved them in right at a week, along with all the other goodies requiredina bag!Well worth it I think!
 
--
Thanks,
Rich Simmons
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
My local EAA chapter (782) just had a meeting featuring an experienced welder and all his equipment and shop.  I don't know exactly what he would charge to weld two tanks, but I do know it would be based on an hourly rate of around $60.  That means it wouldn't cost you very much if you supply all the parts prepared to be welded an he only has to actually do the welding.  If you just give him the drawing and ask for two tanks it would cost a great deal more.

If you want the best price for a complete job including leak testing after the welding is done, I suggest you order them from Zenith.  They have lots of experience and all the necessary fixtures already in place.  They might even be able to ship you the tanks in just a few days.

Best regards ,
< BR>Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive

At 01:16 PM 8/27/2006, you wrote:
OK, I'll try one more time! Scratch Builders..What's a usual and customary price to pay to have both tanks welded, including fixtures installed? Thanks.
 
 
 
Terry Turnquist
601 XL Plans
St. Peters, MO
 
________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:24 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT) Why not? Actually, there are some around. It's a perfectly valid option. Not that we are vain, but after putting in lots of effort in our planes, most of us choose to try to make it look as attractive as we can. That helps with the reluctant passenger too. But it is not absolutely necessary. Naked is nice! do not archive Jeff Davidson Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT) All this talk about painting and the only alternative, polishing, has my head spinning. I know that both these options can produce a very attractive airplane. But does anyone ever consider clean, unpainted, unpolished aluminum? Just a thought. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fusealge ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:31 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT) Mine will be left plain until I am satisfied with the flight testing. Then I might polish it. Or leave it unpolished and name it "Plane Ugly". But given the number of smiles I may paint it camouflage :-) -- Craig ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:51 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT) I did not paint my 601 for the first three years. Just wash and dry. Small pits started to show all over, so had to paint. Canadian weather. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:09 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: Zenith-List: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Priming techniques with Alumiprep, Alodine and Zinc Chromate From: "lwinger" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" My scratch-built rudder parts are now complete, and I'm ready to prime. I have purchased Scotchbrite 7447 (per the construction manual), Alumiprep 33, Alodine 1201 and PTI Zinc Chromate Primer from Aircraft Spruce (quart size can). My plan is to use spray bottles to apply the Alumiprep and Alodine, and to brush on the Zinc Chromate. In all cases I plan to wear eye protection, respirator, long sleeves and nitrile gloves. I've read all the archived primer discussions, and I really don't have a desire to re-start them. This request is specifically for any listers who are using zinc chromate for priming internal parts. (1) How have you cleaned with Alumiprep or converted with Alodine when the parts are too big to fit in a full-immersion bath? Spray? Cheesecloth? Other? (2) Have you ever brushed on the Zinc Chromate? If so, what tips do you have? (3) Any other suggestions on how to use these products safely and effectively? Thanks for your feedback. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Rudder clecoed and ready to prime Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57910#57910 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:07 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Priming techniques with Alumiprep, Alodine and Zinc Chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Larry, I have been using zinc chromate on the internal parts of the wing I'm working on. All I have been doing is wiping down with lacquer thinner and spraying a light coat on the metal. I primed all of the parts before I used them except the skins which I did when I unwrapped them and got ready to install them. I don't think you will get everyone to agree to anything regarding priming. I tried removing the zinc chromate on some parts that would be on the outside of the wing, and I couldn't hardly get it off with lacquer thinner. I didn't plan on using alodine or alumiprep because it is too much work and it doesn't matter that much to me. You really don't have to do anything if you don't want. When you do apply it, whether by brush or spray, just put a light coat on. It's ok if you can see through it. That's the way it is supposed to be. Just My Opinion Dave in Salem 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: "lwinger" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Priming techniques with Alumiprep, Alodine and Zinc Chromate > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" > > My scratch-built rudder parts are now complete, and I'm ready to prime. I > have purchased Scotchbrite 7447 (per the construction manual), Alumiprep > 33, Alodine 1201 and PTI Zinc Chromate Primer from Aircraft Spruce (quart > size can). My plan is to use spray bottles to apply the Alumiprep and > Alodine, and to brush on the Zinc Chromate. In all cases I plan to wear > eye protection, respirator, long sleeves and nitrile gloves. > > I've read all the archived primer discussions, and I really don't have a > desire to re-start them. This request is specifically for any listers who > are using zinc chromate for priming internal parts. > > (1) How have you cleaned with Alumiprep or converted with Alodine when > the parts are too big to fit in a full-immersion bath? Spray? > Cheesecloth? Other? > > (2) Have you ever brushed on the Zinc Chromate? If so, what tips do you > have? > > (3) Any other suggestions on how to use these products safely and > effectively? > > Thanks for your feedback. > > -------- > Larry Winger > Tustin, CA > 601XL #6493 from scratch > Rudder clecoed and ready to prime > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57910#57910 > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:12 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question This is my first email on the Zenith-list. I am building a 701 from a kit I bought from the original purchaser. This kit came with four 10-gallon wing tanks but without a main tank. Since the only plane I ever built had a single tank, I could use some advice regarding the fuel flow configuration. My initial idea (please advise) is to connect the 4 tanks to the Rotax 912S as shown in the attachment. I plan to use heavy 1/4 fuel line and don't plan to add a return flow line unless you feel it is needed. I also plan to put an auxiliary 4-PSI Facet electric fuel pump in-line between the engine and the right-left fuel selector switch. All the tanks will have fuel level gauges. The two wing tank selectors would be located on either side of the cockpit near the wing roots and the right-left selector would be on the instrument panel. I know that with this config I have to keep tabs on three selector positions and the fuel levels in at least two tanks. Controlling flow in this manner seems logical since I will normally fly using only the inboard tanks and want to keep the outboard tanks dry (unless I am on long flights). I suspect that its best to fly with fuel flowing from tanks on both side at the same time to keep fuel levels the same in both wings.. but I could use advice about this. Does this configuration work? Your comments would be helpful. Regards, Les Goldner Kit S/N 5298 Progress to date: One wing and tail completed.