Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:12 AM - Re: Flanging Dies (Dave Johnson)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (Trevor Page)
3. 06:35 AM - White corrosion (Bill Naumuk)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: White corrosion (kevinbonds)
5. 07:54 AM - Removing Corrosion (kevinbonds)
6. 09:52 AM - Re: Swapping wings (R.P.)
7. 10:47 AM - White stuff/black stuff (Bill Naumuk)
8. 10:53 AM - Re: Swapping wings (Bill Naumuk)
9. 11:34 AM - Leading Edge Dents (Dave Ruddiman)
10. 11:55 AM - Re: 601 XL (Phyrcooler)
11. 12:30 PM - RE : Leading Edge Dents (Carlos Sa)
12. 12:46 PM - Re: White corrosion (DICK WILBERS)
13. 01:03 PM - Re: Leading Edge Dents (Jaybannist@cs.com)
14. 01:18 PM - Re: Wing swapping (Dave)
15. 02:36 PM - Re: White corrosion (kevinbonds)
16. 02:55 PM - Re: Leading Edge Dents (n801bh@netzero.com)
17. 05:06 PM - Remove me from your mailing list, Please! (Alisia Campbell)
18. 05:41 PM - Unsubscibe!!!! (Alisia Campbell)
19. 06:42 PM - Re: Unsubscibe!!!! (Randy Bryant)
20. 08:22 PM - Re: White corrosion (kevinbonds)
21. 10:05 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL (Gary Gower)
22. 10:47 PM - Re: White corrosion (Trainnut01@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging Dies |
O.K. a really dumb question:-
if deciduous trees are 'hardwoods' and conifers are 'softwoods' what is
Larch (it's a deciduous conifer!) a hardsoftwood or a softhardwood?
Dave Johnson
Please do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy L. Thwing
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
As described below, I have always understoond that Balsa is
"technically" a hardwood!
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
You guys recommending a hardwood instead of softwood for flanging
dies just don't understand wood. "Hardwood" designates a wood that is
from a decidous tree. "Softwood" referrs to a wood that come from a
coniferous tree.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK |
Randy, I love your 1 ton press. Now that's thinking laterally!
Jamie Hyneman would be proud ;)
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
do not archive
On Sep 3, 2006, at 7:23 PM, Randy L. Thwing wrote:
> This is very "old Hat" for nearly everyone on the list, but I
> couldn't resist the opening, especially now that pics can be
> attached. Note the dies are not made of plywood!
> This system worked great. I still can't emphasize enough, before
> flanging, sand the inside of the hole until you can run your finger
> around it and feel that it is perfectly smooth. Anything less and
> the flange will probably crack. I was in such a big hurry to try
> my dies that I failed to do this and wound up with two cracks in a
> nose rib flange. Had to make another nose rib because of this,
> another lesson.
>
> Regards,
>
> Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, do not archive
>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
>
> Hay Rick,
> There are all kinds of ways to press. Did you hear about the
> guy who used his car. He put the flanging die under one of the
> front wheels and jacked the car up and down with an air driven
> bumper jack. All it takes is a good imagination. And the will to
> stick with it until you are flying an airplane you built and there
> is nothing like it.
>
> Bob Stone
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> <Gravity75dpi.jpg>
Message 3
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All-
Finally found the answer in the archives. You do use lacquer
thinner, among other things. I was fixated on "Removing corrosion"
(Which turned up no hits) and found the post in "Paint preparation".
Suppose I'll have to look harder next time.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 4
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Use Alumiprep 33 to remove corrosion. It's great stuff. Lacquer thinner has
not worked for me. It will only remove the oils, dirt, and ink.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: White corrosion
All-
Finally found the answer in the archives. You do use lacquer thinner,
among other things. I was fixated on "Removing corrosion" (Which turned up
no hits) and found the post in "Paint preparation". Suppose I'll have to
look harder next time.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 5
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| Subject: | Removing Corrosion |
Use Alumiprep 33 to remove corrosion. It's great stuff. Lacquer thinner has
not worked for me-It will only remove the oils, dirt, and ink.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
for the archives
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Swapping wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Hi Larry.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right about the registration and POH. Might have to
make a couple of placarding changes on the panel too.
I'm thinking more along the lines of the requirements to notify the FSDO
after a major change. I'm assuming that I'll need to return to Phase One
flight testing and fly off 5 hours with the new wings. I can do that. I just
don't want to notify the FSDO and do the flight test thing every time I swap
wings.
Rick Pitcher
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
>
> Rick,
> I believe you'd only need to have a POH that indicated performance specs
> and maintenance for both types of wing or perhaps a separate POH that went
> with the wing set you were using at the time. Registration should be the
> same. Shouldn't be more complex than flying with or without wheel pants
> in
> my opinion.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> R.P. wrote:
>
>> Just catching up on the Zenith list emails this morning and saw a post
>> from Bill Naumak asking about swapping the wings on the HD and HDS
>> Zodiacs. His question was added-on to a reply on another thread so I'm
>> posing the question here under a new header.
>> I built the HD version but would like to try the clipped/tapered HDS, so
>> I bought a set of plans and some ribs for the HDS outer wing panels and
>> planned on building them when I'm finished with my current project.
>> I'll build the HDS wings and fly off some more flight test hours, but I
>> don't want to leave the HDS wings on the plane permanantly. I really
>> LIKE my big slow-n-easy HD wings too.
>> After I flight tested the new HDS wings, can I just swap the outter wing
>> panels whenever I want with just a logbook entry? Or is it more involved?
>> Thanks,
>> Rick Pitcher
>> CH601HD
>> http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday.html
>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | White stuff/black stuff |
All-
I agree, lacquer thinner does a great job of taking off the maker's
marks, but not much else.
Luckily, all of the bad stains, including some black stuff that
looks like mold, are on the interior sides of the aluminum. Since I have
to mow the lawn (If it doesn't rain again) and go to my son's for a
cookout, I'm pretty much stalled anyway at page 2 of the fuse part of
the manual.
The question is, do I have to get rid of this crud on the inside,
and if so, what do I use?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Swapping wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Rick-
Have you tried the FAA website? I was going to log on, but can't find my
password and will probably have to contact my BFR CFI to get it. Lost my
hard drives early this year and don't even have things bookmarked.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
>
> Hi Larry.
> Yeah, I'm sure you're right about the registration and POH. Might have to
> make a couple of placarding changes on the panel too.
>
> I'm thinking more along the lines of the requirements to notify the FSDO
> after a major change. I'm assuming that I'll need to return to Phase One
> flight testing and fly off 5 hours with the new wings. I can do that. I
> just don't want to notify the FSDO and do the flight test thing every time
> I swap wings.
>
> Rick Pitcher
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick,
>> I believe you'd only need to have a POH that indicated performance specs
>> and maintenance for both types of wing or perhaps a separate POH that
>> went
>> with the wing set you were using at the time. Registration should be the
>> same. Shouldn't be more complex than flying with or without wheel pants
>> in
>> my opinion.
>>
>> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>> R.P. wrote:
>>
>>> Just catching up on the Zenith list emails this morning and saw a post
>>> from Bill Naumak asking about swapping the wings on the HD and HDS
>>> Zodiacs. His question was added-on to a reply on another thread so I'm
>>> posing the question here under a new header.
>>> I built the HD version but would like to try the clipped/tapered HDS,
>>> so I bought a set of plans and some ribs for the HDS outer wing panels
>>> and planned on building them when I'm finished with my current project.
>>> I'll build the HDS wings and fly off some more flight test hours, but I
>>> don't want to leave the HDS wings on the plane permanantly. I really
>>> LIKE my big slow-n-easy HD wings too.
>>> After I flight tested the new HDS wings, can I just swap the outter wing
>>> panels whenever I want with just a logbook entry? Or is it more
>>> involved?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Rick Pitcher
>>> CH601HD
>>> http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday.html
>>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Leading Edge Dents |
Since there are not many 801 builders out there I kind of feel all
alone. Poor me. I imagine this question applies to all the other designs
too. I am about to rivet on the leading edge wing skin on the right
wing. I have pulled it in with straps as far as I can. The skin is
pretty close on the ribs, but not touching. If I rivet it the way it is
it will pull a dent on the front of the skin. Has anyone addressed this.
I am thinking of adding an additional strip between the rib and the skin
to shim it out. I can't see any reason not to. It will have rivets
through it. I'm going to use A5's. I would appreciate any suggestions
from anyone interested or that has a better solution.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
I am also considering the 601XL as I compare various kit options, and thus also
interested in this topic. I have no interest in "serious" acro - but an occasional
roll/loop would be fun...
Not being able to would NOT be a deal breaker for me - as it isn't that critical.
Conversely - if it could, it would be another entry in the positive column
for this aircraft.
Please post any response you get direct from Zenith. If anyone else has info -
please chime in!
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59398#59398
Message 11
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| Subject: | Leading Edge Dents |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Dave, here's a quote from the old (3.rd edition, 1995) CH601 contruction manual:
Page 12, under Some More Tips - "Shimming: It is acceptable and common practice
to fill the gap
between two parts wich not completely match. If you have to shim over 1/8" (3mm)
refer to the
designer."
Another thought: I had the same situation with the horizontal stabilizer and the
wing tanks.
Specially with the tanks, I wanted full contact. One way of achieving this (in
case you haven't
tried yet) is to have your straps aligned with the ribs, and insert pieces of wood
between the
straps and the skin in the area where the gaps exist. This way, you will be increasing
the force
normal to the surface at those spots. It takes a good deal of trial, error and
patience.
Straps with ratchets are recommended in the same manual, page 18.
Obviously, all of this must be done with great care, as you could crush or bend
parts.
Good luck
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
--- Dave Ruddiman <pacificpainting@comcast.net> a crit :
> Since there are not many 801 builders out there I kind of feel all alone. Poor
me. I imagine
> this question applies to all the other designs too. I am about to rivet on the
leading edge
> wing skin on the right wing. I have pulled it in with straps as far as I can.
The skin is
> pretty close on the ribs, but not touching. If I rivet it the way it is it will
pull a dent on
> the front of the skin. Has anyone addressed this. I am thinking of adding an
additional strip
> between the rib and the skin to shim it out. I can't see any reason not to. It
will have rivets
> through it. I'm going to use A5's. I would appreciate any suggestions from anyone
interested or
> that has a better solution.
>
> Dave in Salem
> 801
p4.vert.ukl.yahoo.com uncompressed/chunked Mon Sep 4 12:23:39 GMT 2006
__________________________________________________________
Message 12
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Kevin: Where did you buy Alumiprep 33?
Regards..............................................................Dick
601 HDS in Florida
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Use Alumiprep 33 to remove corrosion. It's great stuff. Lacquer thinner has
not worked for me. It will only remove the oils, dirt, and ink.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: White corrosion
All-
Finally found the answer in the archives. You do use lacquer thinner,
among other things. I was fixated on "Removing corrosion" (Which turned up
no hits) and found the post in "Paint preparation". Suppose I'll have to
look harder next time.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
- The Zenith-List Email Forum -
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-->
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
-->
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Dents |
Dave, I used the 2 x 4 along the trailing (spar) edge and a 1 x 4 closer to
the nose. The skin pulled up tight to the ribs. If you've tried that, you
might try using two 2 x 4s and pushing back on them as you tighten the straps.
Jay in Dallas, working on xl fuselage N2630J
Do not archive
Message 14
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The wing swap is considered a Major Change and as such you will be required
to fly something akin to the 40 hours needed for the first test flights.
Talk to your local FSDO to get their opinion. Also don't forget the log book
entries required stating what you did and that the aircraft is airworthy and
able to return to service. A mishap without this type of entry and the
insurance is null because your not in compliance with the FARs and as such
not airworthy. That applies to any maintenance actually.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
Message 15
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Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. But have found that auto paint supply houses
carry similar stuff.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DICK WILBERS
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Kevin: Where did you buy Alumiprep 33?
Regards..............................................................Dick
601 HDS in Florida
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Use Alumiprep 33 to remove corrosion. It's great stuff. Lacquer thinner has
not worked for me. It will only remove the oils, dirt, and ink.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: White corrosion
All-
Finally found the answer in the archives. You do use lacquer thinner,
among other things. I was fixated on "Removing corrosion" (Which turned up
no hits) and found the post in "Paint preparation". Suppose I'll have to
look harder next time.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
- The Zenith-List Email Forum -
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
<>--> < o:p>
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
<>-->
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Dents |
Always use twice as many rachet straps then Zenith directions say to us
e, the leading edge skin should contact most if not all of the nose ribs
when cinched up tight. Remember the leading edge is hidden by the slats
so any imperfection will not stick out like a sore thumb unlike most an
y other planes..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net> wrote:
Since there are not many 801 builders out there I kind of feel all alone
. Poor me. I imagine this question applies to all the other designs too.
I am about to rivet on the leading edge wing skin on the right wing. I
have pulled it in with straps as far as I can. The skin is pretty close
on the ribs, but not touching. If I rivet it the way it is it will pull
a dent on the front of the skin. Has anyone addressed this. I am thinkin
g of adding an additional strip between the rib and the skin to shim it
out. I can't see any reason not to. It will have rivets through it. I'm
going to use A5's. I would appreciate any suggestions from anyone intere
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
<html><P> Always use twice as many rachet straps then Zenith d
irections say to use, the leading edge skin should contact most if
not all of the nose ribs when cinched up tight. Remember the leadin
g edge is hidden by the slats so any imperfection will not stick out lik
e a sore thumb unlike most any other planes..</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcas
t.net> wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since there are not many 801 build
ers out there I kind of feel all alone. Poor me. I imagine this question
applies to all the other designs too. I am about to rivet on the leadin
g edge wing skin on the right wing. I have pulled it in with straps as f
ar as I can. The skin is pretty close on the ribs, but not touching. If
I rivet it the way it is it will pull a dent on the front of the skin. H
as anyone addressed this. I am thinking of adding an additional strip be
tween the rib and the skin to shim it out. I can't see any reason not to
. It will have rivets through it. I'm going to use A5's. I would appreci
ate any suggestions from anyone interested or that has a better sol
ution.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave in Salem</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>801</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="c
ourier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
========================
===========
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
========================
===========
tronics.com</A>
========================
===========
ics.com</A>
========================
===========
www.matronics.com/contribution</A>
========================
===========
</B></FONT></PRE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Remove me from your mailing list, Please! |
I would like to be taken off your mailing list. Thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: Zenith-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:32 AM
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 08/28/06
*
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-0
8-28.html
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8-28.txt
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 08/28/06: 22
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question (Zodi
e Rocket)
2. 05:04 AM - Re: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question (Harr
ison-Hutcheson)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Priming techniques with Alumiprep, Alodine and Zin
c Chromate (Kemter)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question (LRM)
5. 07:52 AM - Request (Paul Seibert)
6. 09:41 AM - Polishing (or NOT) (Grant Corriveau)
7. 11:10 AM - Re: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question (Les
Goldner)
8. 12:57 PM - HD/HDS wings (Timothy D. Perkins)
9. 02:21 PM - 701 Stabilizer Front Mounting Bracket (Chuck Deiteric
h)
10. 02:33 PM - Re: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question (RURUNY@a
ol.com)
11. 02:40 PM - Re: 701 Stabilizer Front Mounting Bracket (RURUNY@aol
.com)
12. 03:50 PM - Re: Polishing (or NOT) (Bill Naumuk)
13. 06:17 PM - CH701 Wing struts (john swanson)
14. 06:27 PM - cowling (Bill Flick)
15. 06:30 PM - Main gear assembly-500kb (Bill Naumuk)
16. 06:42 PM - Main gear assembly-500kb (Bill Naumuk)
17. 07:03 PM - Re: Main gear assembly-500kb (LHusky@aol.com)
18. 08:06 PM - Re: cowling (Trevor Page)
19. 08:57 PM - How to quiet an air compressor? (Todd Osborne)
20. 09:25 PM - Re: How to quiet an air compressor? (Dave Ruddiman)
21. 09:41 PM - Re: How to quiet an air compressor? (Paul Mulwitz)
22. 11:04 PM - Re: How to quiet an air compressor? (John Marzulli)
________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________
_________
Time: 04:47:34 AM PST US
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
Les, if your Canadian then your fuel lines must be 3/8=92s in size.
cdngoose
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
This is my first email on the Zenith-list. I am building a 701 from a
kit I bought from the original purchaser. This kit came with four
10-gallon wing tanks but without a main tank. Since the only plane I
ever built had a single tank, I could use some advice regarding the fuel
flow configuration.
My initial idea (please advise) is to connect the 4 tanks to the Rotax
912S as shown in the attachment. I plan to use heavy 1/4 fuel line and
don't plan to add a return flow line unless you feel it is needed. I
also plan to put an auxiliary 4-PSI Facet electric fuel pump in-line
between the engine and the right-left fuel selector switch. All the
tanks will have fuel level gauges. The two wing tank selectors would be
located on either side of the cockpit near the wing roots and the
right-left selector would be on the instrument panel.
I know that with this config I have to keep tabs on three selector
positions and the fuel levels in at least two tanks. Controlling flow in
this manner seems logical since I will normally fly using only the
inboard tanks and want to keep the outboard tanks dry (unless I am on
long flights). I suspect that its best to fly with fuel flowing from
tanks on both side at the same time to keep fuel levels the same in both
wings.. but I could use advice about this.
Does this configuration work? Your comments would be helpful.
Regards,
Les Goldner
Kit S/N 5298
Progress to date: One wing and tail completed.
--
8/25/2006
--
8/25/2006
________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________
_________
Time: 05:04:01 AM PST US
From: "Harrison-Hutcheson" <3717w155opks@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
Les,
I purchased a complete kit with auxiliary wing tanks. The plans I have
(7-6412, with section on Auxiliary Tanks) indicate the outside
tanks(auxiliary) are connected using a "T", the inside tanks (main) are
connected by a "T", and there is a switch to pick main, auxiliary, or
none. I likewise have 4 fuel level indicators. Do you have top-mounted
fuel level senders on your auxiliary tanks? I would be interested in
hearing how you managed to get the sending unit to clear the top-skin.
Likewise I would be interested in seeing responses to the need for
electric fuel pump....
At times having just one switch seems to be a sufficient challenge while
flying (1971 Piper Cherokee 140) with just left and right tanks. Having
the added complexity of 3 switches - all needing to be in proper
position - might be a bit much (IMHO).
Hope it helps,
Sam Hutcheson
Kit S/N 7-6412
Rudder, Elevator, Stabilizer, Wings, Flaperons, Slats, working on Rear
Fuselage.
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Goldner
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
This is my first email on the Zenith-list. I am building a 701 from a
kit I bought from the original purchaser. This kit came with four
10-gallon wing tanks but without a main tank. Since the only plane I
ever built had a single tank, I could use some advice regarding the fuel
flow configuration.
My initial idea (please advise) is to connect the 4 tanks to the Rotax
912S as shown in the attachment. I plan to use heavy 1/4 fuel line and
don't plan to add a return flow line unless you feel it is needed. I
also plan to put an auxiliary 4-PSI Facet electric fuel pump in-line
between the engine and the right-left fuel selector switch. All the
tanks will have fuel level gauges. The two wing tank selectors would be
located on either side of the cockpit near the wing roots and the
right-left selector would be on the instrument panel.
I know that with this config I have to keep tabs on three selector
positions and the fuel levels in at least two tanks. Controlling flow in
this manner seems logical since I will normally fly using only the
inboard tanks and want to keep the outboard tanks dry (unless I am on
long flights). I suspect that its best to fly with fuel flowing from
tanks on both side at the same time to keep fuel levels the same in both
wings.. but I could use advice about this.
Does this configuration work? Your comments would be helpful.
Regards,
Les Goldner
Kit S/N 5298
Progress to date: One wing and tail completed.
________________________________ Message 3 ____________________________
_________
Time: 05:56:54 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Priming techniques with Alumiprep, Alodine and
Zinc Chromate
From: "Kemter" <kemter@msn.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kemter" <kemter@msn.com>
Larry,
I was at the exact point you are a few days ago with my 701's rudder.
I opted
to only wipe down the pieces with thinner and brush on PTI's zinc chromat
e with
a disposable foam brush. Once the zinc chromate was dry (a light coat dr
ies
really fast), I rivited the skeleton together. I tried scraping off some
of
the zinc chromate last night (about 36 hours after I first applied it) wi
th
my fingernail and it wouldn't come off and was as hard as woodpecker lips
.
Jim
--------
Jim Kemter
Cibolo, TX
701 / undecided engine
working on tail feathers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57937#57937
________________________________ Message 4 ____________________________
_________
Time: 07:00:19 AM PST US
From: "LRM" <lrm@skyhawg.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
Why don't you look at how I did mine?
http://www.skyhawg.com/fuelsystem.html. It is straight forward and
simple. I don't like a fuel selector switch. There has been lots and
lots of accidents because of selector switches where the pilot thought
he/she was switching tanks when in fact it was accidentally moved to the
off position. I don't think the switch itself should have an off
position. Turning off the fuel should be a separate deliberate
function. If one insist on a selector switch with an off position, then
make sure it is visible. My setup may not be totally idiot proof, but
close.
On another note, wondering why I haven't flown yet? Well first I passed
my airworthiness inspection with flying colors a couple weeks ago. Not
a single discrepancy. Then I started to taxiing around on my field.
One of the plastic fuel tanks started to leak, then another. I am now
building four new fiberglass tanks, will be done today. The black cloud
continued. Last week we started to program the EFIS (Dynon D10). It
didn't function right, so it should be at the factory today for repairs.
I am down for at least another two weeks. Other than that the test
pilot was really impressed with the ground handling. The acceleration
is great, front wheel was off the ground in 20' or less. I wouldn't let
him take it up because I don't have insurance, and now it appears I
can't get any. So when I get everything fixed, it's up up and away
insurance or not. As soon as it flies, I will post the numbers on my
site.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Goldner
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
This is my first email on the Zenith-list. I am building a 701 from a
kit I bought from the original purchaser. This kit came with four
10-gallon wing tanks but without a main tank. Since the only plane I
ever built had a single tank, I could use some advice regarding the fuel
flow configuration.
My initial idea (please advise) is to connect the 4 tanks to the Rotax
912S as shown in the attachment. I plan to use heavy 1/4 fuel line and
don't plan to add a return flow line unless you feel it is needed. I
also plan to put an auxiliary 4-PSI Facet electric fuel pump in-line
between the engine and the right-left fuel selector switch. All the
tanks will have fuel level gauges. The two wing tank selectors would be
located on either side of the cockpit near the wing roots and the
right-left selector would be on the instrument panel.
I know that with this config I have to keep tabs on three selector
positions and the fuel levels in at least two tanks. Controlling flow in
this manner seems logical since I will normally fly using only the
inboard tanks and want to keep the outboard tanks dry (unless I am on
long flights). I suspect that its best to fly with fuel flowing from
tanks on both side at the same time to keep fuel levels the same in both
wings.. but I could use advice about this.
Does this configuration work? Your comments would be helpful.
Regards,
Les Goldner
Kit S/N 5298
Progress to date: One wing and tail completed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
8/23/2006
________________________________ Message 5 ____________________________
_________
Time: 07:52:35 AM PST US
From: "Paul Seibert" <pwseib@mindspring.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Request
________________________________ Message 6 ____________________________
_________
Time: 09:41:01 AM PST US
From: Grant Corriveau <grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET>
Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT)
I have left my 601HDS auminum surfaces unfinished for several years
now. For the first few years it was out in an open tie-down spot all
summer, rain or shine, with just a canopy cover. Then it was
indoors, wings off, for the winter being 'fine-tuned'... During this
time the aluminium dulled a little, but still looked not too bad -
especially from a distance ;-).
Last winter I put the airplane into an open hangar. Due to the dust
from the hangar floor, combining with the greater humidity and
condensation, combining with some amounts of snow that would blow in
and 'dust' the airplane, the surface of the aluminum deteriorated
more in those few months than all the years before. Now it's very
dull and 'rough'. This is apparently not a concern in terms of
corrosion as that's what 6061T6 is supposed to do, (i.e. produce a
surface layer to block further contact with air and moisture), but
it's not pretty by any means. And the amount of polishing that would
be required now to clean up this deeper level of surface dulling/
pitting, doesn't make that seem like a good option any more.
fwiw
Grant Corriveau
GHTF 601hds
(you can see the most recent photo on the blogsite link below. still
doesn't look too bad from a distance! but don't get too close)
On 27-Aug-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT)
>
> I did not paint my 601 for the first three years. Just wash and dry.
> Small pits started to show all over, so had to paint.
> Canadian weather.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
________________________________ Message 7 ____________________________
_________
Time: 11:10:01 AM PST US
From: "Les Goldner" <lgold@quantum-associates.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
Sam,
I will try to answer your question about the top-mounted fuel level senso
rs.
I purchased some 5/16"x5/8" aluminum "stringer" excursions from Spruce (P
/N
03-48900) and sat them over the tank perpendicular to the ribs (attached
with "L"s just behind the the fuel sender top plate. This prevents the ta
nk
from getting closer than 5/8" to top skin. In addition, I applied liquid
electrical tape (Spruce # 09-42565) on top of the cut-down electrical
contact on the sender. No chance of the unit shorting out this way!
I also cut an access hole on top of the wing to get to the sender should
it
need repair, but this is a different story.
Les
Kit 7-5298
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Harrison-Hutcheson
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:03 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
Les,
I purchased a complete kit with auxiliary wing tanks. The plans I have
(7-6412, with section on Auxiliary Tanks) indicate the outside
tanks(auxiliary) are connected using a "T", the inside tanks (main) are
connected by a "T", and there is a switch to pick main, auxiliary, or non
e.
I likewise have 4 fuel level indicators. Do you have top-mounted fuel le
vel
senders on your auxiliary tanks? I would be interested in hearing how yo
u
managed to get the sending unit to clear the top-skin. Likewise I would
be
interested in seeing responses to the need for electric fuel pump....
At times having just one switch seems to be a sufficient challenge whil
e
flying (1971 Piper Cherokee 140) with just left and right tanks. Having
the
added complexity of 3 switches - all needing to be in proper position -
might be a bit much (IMHO).
Hope it helps,
Sam Hutcheson
Kit S/N 7-6412
Rudder, Elevator, Stabilizer, Wings, Flaperons, Slats, working on Rear
Fuselage.
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Goldner
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: FW: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
This is my first email on the Zenith-list. I am building a 701 from a
kit I bought from the original purchaser. This kit came with four 10-gall
on
wing tanks but without a main tank. Since the only plane I ever built had
a
single tank, I could use some advice regarding the fuel flow configuratio
n.
My initial idea (please advise) is to connect the 4 tanks to the Rota
x
912S as shown in the attachment. I plan to use heavy 1/4 fuel line and do
n't
plan to add a return flow line unless you feel it is needed. I also plan
to
put an auxiliary 4-PSI Facet electric fuel pump in-line between the engin
e
and the right-left fuel selector switch. All the tanks will have fuel lev
el
gauges. The two wing tank selectors would be located on either side of th
e
cockpit near the wing roots and the right-left selector would be on the
instrument panel.
I know that with this config I have to keep tabs on three selector
positions and the fuel levels in at least two tanks. Controlling flow in
this manner seems logical since I will normally fly using only the inboar
d
tanks and want to keep the outboard tanks dry (unless I am on long flight
s).
I suspect that its best to fly with fuel flowing from tanks on both side
at
the same time to keep fuel levels the same in both wings.. but I could us
e
advice about this.
Does this configuration work? Your comments would be helpful.
Regards,
Les Goldner
Kit S/N 5298
Progress to date: One wing and tail completed.
________________________________ Message 8 ____________________________
_________
Time: 12:57:51 PM PST US
From: "Timothy D. Perkins" <Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu>
Subject: Zenith-List: HD/HDS wings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Timothy D. Perkins" <Timothy.Perkins@
uvm.edu>
Anyone have, or know where I might get a set of completed 601 HD or HDS
wings? Anyone switch from HD to HDS wings and still have the originals
hanging around? I need to replace or rebuild the left wing on my plane (6
01
HD) after a gear failure incident in June, but figured I'd see if someone
has a set they want to sell.
Before anyone suggests it...I already know about the HDS wings listed on
Barnstormers.
Email me off-list at Timothy.Perkins @ uvm.edu (take out the spaces)
Thanks,
Tim Perkins, VT
Do not archive
________________________________ Message 9 ____________________________
_________
Time: 02:21:24 PM PST US
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Stabilizer Front Mounting Bracket
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
The July/Aug 2006 issue of the Zenair News has a good atricle by Larry
Zetterlind.
It describes cracks in 7H2-6 (Stabilizer Front Mounting Bracket) and his
repair process. He says that on his 701 the brackets were under a stress
due to a poor fit to the fuselage brackets. (See Zenair Newsletter Sept/
Oct
2005 for a good picture of this failure.)
Originally, this bracket was .040" aluminum but Zenith now uses .063".
I remember reading about this problem on this forum and I got the impress
ion
that one cause of the cracking was due to the tail shaking during engine
start, particularly the Rotax 912.
Am I remembering correctly?
Chuck D.
N701TX
________________________________ Message 10 ___________________________
_________
Time: 02:33:50 PM PST US
From: RURUNY@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: re: 4-tank fuel flow configuration question
Here is a link to some pics of the 701 2 tank sender access. Simple cork
sheet cut into rings(3 each) used to keep the skin or access cover off t
he top
of the tank. Used contact cement to glue them together and to tank. One
was
glued to the doubler with nutplates. If skin is ever de-riveted there is
no
glue between the tank and doubler cork. The sender top can never reach th
e
access cover using these.
_http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8CZsWbRuxZMNm¬ag=1
_
(http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8CZsWbRuxZMNm¬ag=1
)
I have 4 lines comming down from the 4 tanks to behind the pilot seat. 2
gascolaters(Zenith box type) are mounted on a doubler plate on either sid
e of
the flap control arm. The one mounted on the left is for the inboard left
and
right tanks, the one on the right is for the outboard left and right tank
s.
There is drain to check for water at each of these. It is 1/4 fuel hose f
rom
each tank. Just before the gascolater is a small clear plastic brass filt
er
from wicks for each tank. The output from the gascolaters (now 2 lines) a
re 5/16
fuel hose to a selector on the left side floor in front of the seat. Lab
eled
off- inboard- outboard. 5/16 line exits this selector and continues u
p
the left side to a flow sensor behind the rudders, exits the right side
of
firewall to an ACS gascolater. 5/16 fuel line covered in heatshield out
of the
gascolater to the
912 fuel pump input which is a 5/16 fitting. Output of fuel pump is back
to
1/4 inch line, this goes to a brass hose T and then on to each carb. Thi
s is
a stock setup except for the 5/16 line from the gascolaters on and per ad
vice
of Jim Greenough in Portland Oregon, the use
of AN842 brass right angle fittings with 1/8 NPT from Spruce to fit the
gascolaters behind the seat for the 1/4 inch line from the tanks. It woul
dn't
work with the the straight hose nipples provided by zenith, you could not
fit
both gascolaters behind the seat.
Hope this helps
Brian
________________________________ Message 11 ___________________________
_________
Time: 02:40:55 PM PST US
From: RURUNY@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: re: 701 Stabilizer Front Mounting Bracket
You are remembering correctly, but it was the 912s 100 hp engine which ha
s
high compression that was causing this.I think the vibration issue was so
lved
by starting and stopping on one ignition module instead of both. I will
be
inspecting my brackets regularly.
Brian
________________________________ Message 12 ___________________________
_________
Time: 03:50:57 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT)
And most of the WWII Spits I've seen were camo!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
42.5%HDS
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Austin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing (or NOT)
I did not paint my 601 for the first three years. Just wash and dry.
Small pits started to show all over, so had to paint.
Canadian weather.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________ Message 13 ___________________________
_________
Time: 06:17:27 PM PST US
From: john swanson <jswanson@up.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Wing struts
--> Zenith-List message posted by: john swanson <jswanson@up.net>
This will come under the catagory of dumb question, but thats better than
a
mistake.
Fitting the Wings. Do i cut the wing struts shorter, 7V10-2sp and 1sp to
get the proper dihedral?
I'm asking to make sure that there isnt a mistake in installing the landi
ng
gear
I have the newer? two piece struts
thanks in advance.
do not archive
John CH 701
Alger co MI
________________________________ Message 14 ___________________________
_________
Time: 06:27:30 PM PST US
From: "Bill Flick" <rflick@chilitech.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: cowling
hi guys. i need a cowl for my 601 hds useing a subaru e81 engine and
also a good rabbit rad for the same. thanks. ralph
________________________________ Message 15 ___________________________
_________
Time: 06:30:47 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Main gear assembly-500kb
________________________________ Message 16 ___________________________
_________
Time: 06:42:19 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Main gear assembly-500kb
HD/HDS Builder-
After repeated requests to post this, here it is. My "Properties"
says this file is 500kb, which is way below the 2m max set by Matt.
Bill Naumuk
42.5% HDS
Townville, Pa.
After 8 hours learning how to do this, I figured I could do
everyone a major favor by helping them avoid my mistakes. 5.5 hrs
getting the procedure down and completing the first gear box; 2.5 hrs
for the second. The biggest time saver is to cable tie your bungees in
as tight as possible before going any farther. Pass this on to anyone
who asks for it with my best wishes.
1. Drill the holes in the strut plate for the main gear prior to
assembly.
2. The whole idea is to keep the bungees away from the gear box
perimeter. Cable tie the bungees as tight
as possible around the strut and 3/4" cross tube, and trim the
tie ends as close as possible. NOTE:
Remember to cut and remove the cable ties after the gear box
is installed.
3. Align the assembly to the slide rails, then center the holes using
a center punch. Lightly drive the bolts in
from the outside. Eventually, the bolts will be removed using
a pair of pliers and inserted from inside the
gear boxes. The picture above shows both the alignment and
final position of the bolts.
4. Each bolt pattern is going to differ slightly depending on the
builder. I kept the bolts from turning using one
of 3 methods:
A. I took a 6"x1/4" extension, clamped it in my big vise,
heated the bend area with a propane torch,
slipped a piece of pipe over the long end and reefed it
90=B0. Use duct tape to secure the 3/8"
socket and the rest of the assembly together. (Far right
in the picture).
B. I took a flat (No offset for the box end) combination
wrench and duct taped it to a long screwdriver.
(3rd from right).
C. I jammed a long screwdriver between the bolt head and gear
box.
5. Push the bungee out of the way of the hole area to give you some
room to work. I used a 1' bungee
to keep the screwdriver in place. Figure on having to touch up
your corrosion protection when you're
done. Note the sloppy rivet line in the gear slide from work
done in '03. You get more accurate with
practice.
6. I used a "Claw" parts nabber I picked up at HF for $.99 on sale
to insert the bolts. Pull the bolts out
from the outside of the box using pliers, then re-insert them
from the inside. (2nd from left in Tools
picture). Start from the bottom of the box and work your way
up, one at a time. Working space is
critical. Don't forget there are two different lengths of AN-3
bolts used, and make sure the different
sizes didn't migrate from their intended homes in the hardware
box! (Ouch- cost me 1/2 hr!!)
7. Using 2 long 3/8" extensions snapped together, put pressure
against the bolt to allow you to start
the washer and nut (Far left in Tools picture).
8. Finally, keep the bolt from turning using one of the methods
described in (4) above.
There's definitely a learning curve. It took me 4 hours to get my
first 11 bolts in, and 20 minutes for the
last 3 for the port side.
Good building!
________________________________ Message 17 ___________________________
_________
Time: 07:03:59 PM PST US
From: LHusky@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Main gear assembly-500kb
That makes me feel better about building an XL. LOL
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
601XL / Corvair
Building Fuse
Do Not Archive
________________________________ Message 18 ___________________________
_________
Time: 08:06:32 PM PST US
From: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cowling
Ralph, I have a Zenith cowl for an HD/HDS that will fit a Subaru and
a rad. Contact me off list for details.
do not archive
Trevor Page
UPAC Webmaster
www.upac.ca
On Aug 28, 2006, at 9:26 PM, Bill Flick wrote:
> hi guys. i need a cowl for my 601 hds useing a subaru e81 engine
> and also a good rabbit rad for the same. thanks. ralph
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_-
> ========================
=========== _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ========================
=========== _-
> ========================
=========== _-
> contribution_-
> ========================
=========
>
________________________________ Message 19 ___________________________
_________
Time: 08:57:30 PM PST US
From: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: How to quiet an air compressor?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
I live in a duplex and my workshop is in the basement. My air compressor
is very loud and I need to find a way to silence it, or at least quiet
it down. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to do this? I have
thought about building an acoustic enclosure, but don't know how to do
this without harming the cooling and still letting air get in.
--
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
Yahoo! Messenger: ToddMOsborne
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
Skype: toddmosborne
________________________________ Message 20 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:25:32 PM PST US
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How to quiet an air compressor?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comca
st.net>
I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'm sure someone is. You probably h
ave
one of the diaphragm type of compressors They 'rethe noisiest. That's the
same I have. I put mine outside in a tool shed behind the shop. Now the
neighbors have to listen to it. If I were in your situation I would build
a
box around it and line it with styrofoam board. You might be able to cool
it
by cutting some louvers in the bottom and some more in the top. Maybe get
a
small squirrel cage fan or a bathroom fan with some ducting and suck the
air
from the bottom out the top. The holes might let some noise out but I'm s
ure
it would cut down on the noise considerably. The other thing would be to
get
a compressor that is belt driven. They still make noise, but not as much
as
the other type.
That's my idea. Let's see who can add to it. Good luck on it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Osborne" <todd@toddtown.com>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 8:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: How to quiet an air compressor?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
>
> I live in a duplex and my workshop is in the basement. My air compresso
r
> is very loud and I need to find a way to silence it, or at least quiet
it
> down. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to do this? I have thoug
ht
> about building an acoustic enclosure, but don't know how to do this
> without harming the cooling and still letting air get in.
>
> --
> Todd Osborne
> Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
> Web Site: www.toddtown.com
> MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
> Yahoo! Messenger: ToddMOsborne
> AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
> Skype: toddmosborne
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 21 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:41:59 PM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How to quiet an air compressor?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.n
et>
Hi Todd,
One way that works is to replace your direct drive compressor with a
belt driven one. The belt driven ones are more expensive but
naturally more quiet. I got a really nice one made with "Eagle"
brand for around $250 from the "Tool Peddler" in Portland, OR - near
my home and shop.
Sorry if this is not the answer you were hoping for. Maybe somebody
else has that one.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
-> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
>I live in a duplex and my workshop is in the basement. My air
>compressor is very loud and I need to find a way to silence it, or
>at least quiet it down. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to
>do this? I have thought about building an acoustic enclosure, but
>don't know how to do this without harming the cooling and still
>letting air get in.
>
>--
>Todd Osborne
>Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
>Web Site: www.toddtown.com
-
________________________________ Message 22 ___________________________
_________
Time: 11:04:32 PM PST US
From: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How to quiet an air compressor?
My guess is that you made the same mistake I did... buy an oiless
compressor. They are just loud by nature.
-John in Seattle
On 8/28/06, Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
>
> I live in a duplex and my workshop is in the basement. My air compresso
r
> is very loud and I need to find a way to silence it, or at least quiet
> it down. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to do this? I have
> thought about building an acoustic enclosure, but don't know how to do
> this without harming the cooling and still letting air get in.
>
> --
> Todd Osborne
> Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
> Web Site: www.toddtown.com
> MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
> Yahoo! Messenger: ToddMOsborne
> AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
> Skype: toddmosborne
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Zenith-List Digest Server
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 09/03/06
*
========================
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Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 09/03/06: 44
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robin Bellach)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robert L. Stone)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Lock / Rudder Lock? (dbortol)
4. 06:24 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Zodie Rocket)
6. 07:20 AM - Re: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like spots (E
dward Moody II)
7. 08:17 AM - Flanging Dies (Jaybannist@cs.com)
8. 08:39 AM - Re: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like spots (E
dward Moody II)
9. 08:41 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
10. 08:41 AM - Re: Flanging Dies (Andrew Ackland)
11. 08:51 AM - Re: Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
12. 08:53 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
13. 09:01 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Bill Naumuk)
14. 09:02 AM - Re: When the rivet hole gets too big (Edward Moody II
)
15. 09:04 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
16. 09:19 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (kevinbonds)
17. 09:27 AM - Hard woods (Robert L. Stone)
18. 09:30 AM - Re: When the rivet hole gets too big (lwinger)
19. 09:36 AM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (R.P.)
20. 09:41 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Bill Naumuk)
21. 10:30 AM - Swapping wings (R.P.)
22. 11:16 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Paul Mulwitz)
23. 11:35 AM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (Robert L. Ston
e)
24. 11:59 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Daniel Dempsey)
25. 12:12 PM - Re: Self-Etching primer FYI (John)
26. 01:05 PM - Re: Self-Etching primer FYI (TxDave)
27. 01:22 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (J2j3h4@aol.com)
28. 02:24 PM - Re: Swapping wings (LarryMcFarland)
29. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big (Edward Mood
y II)
30. 03:32 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
31. 04:05 PM - Re: Flanging Dies (Randy L. Thwing)
32. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: New GPS in my 601XL (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
33. 04:28 PM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (Randy L. Thwin
g)
34. 05:19 PM - Re: KABONG DRIVING ME FRIGGEN NUTS !!!! (j. davis)
35. 05:21 PM - Wing swapping (Bill Naumuk)
36. 05:30 PM - White stuff (Bill Naumuk)
37. 06:00 PM - Re: Scotchbrite pad Question. (Noel Loveys)
38. 06:06 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robin Bellach)
39. 06:23 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
40. 07:21 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (ihab.awad@gmail.com)
41. 07:37 PM - performance at cruise (Michael Parsons)
42. 07:47 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robin Bellach)
43. 08:02 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
44. 08:17 PM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (Gary Boothe)
________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________
_________
Time: 05:09:02 AM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine is very soft compared to true hardwoods like oak, walnut, and
hickory, and you shouldn't need the poison of the PT. I can't see using
fragile soft wood like pine or birch unless you are going to whittle it
by hand with a pocket knife. Modern power tools don't care if they are
cutting hard or soft wood, and the hard wood would be more durable.
'Course I'm in the hardwoods country of the Ozarks where these woods are
plentiful. I'll soon be burning a truck load of hardwood scraps to keep
warm, free from a local mill, and most would be ideal chunks to cut dies
from. There is one advantage to plywood - the cross grain would prevent
cracking with the grain. I'd use ply before PT.
----- Original Message -----
From: J2j3h4@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm thinking of using pressure-treated pine. If you have ever worked
with this, you know that it is very hard.
Jim Hasper
In a message dated 9/2/2006 9:12:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
<p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I agree that Russian plywood is really good. It is not the same
sort
of low-quality junk plywood available at the Harry Home-owner stores
at all. It is usually at least 7 layers of Birch. You get more
layers as you get thicker plywood. It is also called Nordic Birch
plywood - some of it even comes from countries other than Russia.
I can get it at two different wood stores in Portland, OR. I like
using it for all sorts of stuff around the shop including nice wood
boxes. You can probably find it at higher class hardwood outlets
rather than construction lumber companies.
Paul
XL fuselage
________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________
_________
Time: 05:40:58 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Gary,
Beautiful work on the flanging die. Considering the quality of
your wood work I can see only one thing wrong, you should have used hard
wood then your die would last a lot longer. Your die looks like western
fir and if it is, that's a soft wood.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my center
section and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have
been known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night,
visualizing how I could build flanging dies out of wood.
Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and in an
obvious effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the babies of
machinists, I finally made, and used (successfully), flanging dies out
of plywood!
I hope the attachments are within the abilities of all to download,
and, since this is my first attempt at attaching an image, I am
currently sitting uncomfortably in my asbestos underwear.
Wood is really what I am most comfortable with. Switching from a
Pietenpol to a 601 was a last minute decision after completing the WW
Corvair Conversion. Any of you wood-chucks out there, like me, who wish
a more detailed account can e-mail me directly. (any body skinned their
601 fuselage with plywood?....just kidding.)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
________________________________ Message 3 ____________________________
_________
Time: 06:04:10 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Aileron Lock / Rudder Lock?
From: "dbortol" <dbortol@gmail.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" <dbortol@gmail.com>
Thanks Gary, I hope it will be useful. I remembered after sending it out
that the
plane I saw it on was an HDS, so it has a fixed trailing edge to lock the
ailerons
to. On an XL you'd have to raise the flaps (and make sure nobody steps
on them, ouch!).
Dino Bortolin
La Salle, Ontario
XL/Corvair
[quote="gboothe(at)calply.com"]Dino,
Nice sketch. Who needs a picture!?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
[b]From:[/b] owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-
list-server@matronics.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Dino Bortolin
[b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:02 AM
[b]To:[/b] zenith-list@matronics.com
[b]Subject:[/b] Re: 601 Aileron Lock / Rudder Lock?
I saw a very simple control lock on a 601 at Oshkosh. I can't recall the
builder's
name, but he was based at Osh. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of t
he
lock. I drew up a sketch (attached) that should give you the idea. The di
mensions
are approximate; some amount of 'eyeball engineering' is required. I thin
k
he had one on each outboard end of the elevator, and the flaps were retra
cted
with another between each flap and aileron.
Dino Bortolin
La Salle, Ontario
601/Corvair
[quote][b][/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59174#59174
________________________________ Message 4 ____________________________
_________
Time: 06:24:35 AM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Bob,
Of course you are right. This being the "prototype", and the fact that it
worked so well, I'll make the two smaller ones out of oak. A few weeks ag
o
someone posted that they had used some of that man-made wood decking
material with good results. A person can use whatever they want. Mostly,
I
thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create the male and femal
e
bevels.
Gary
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. St
one
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Gary,
Beautiful work on the flanging die. Considering the quality of your
wood work I can see only one thing wrong, you should have used hard wood
then your die would last a lot longer. Your die looks like western fir a
nd
if it is, that's a soft wood.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my center
section and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have been
known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night, visualizing how
I
could build flanging dies out of wood.
Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and in an
obvious effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the babies of
machinists, I finally made, and used (successfully), flanging dies out of
plywood!
I hope the attachments are within the abilities of all to download, and,
since this is my first attempt at attaching an image, I am currently sitt
ing
uncomfortably in my asbestos underwear.
Wood is really what I am most comfortable with. Switching from a Pietenpo
l
to a 601 was a last minute decision after completing the WW Corvair
Conversion. Any of you wood-chucks out there, like me, who wish a more
detailed account can e-mail me directly. (any body skinned their 601
fuselage with plywood?....just kidding.)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
________________________________ Message 5 ____________________________
_________
Time: 06:49:32 AM PST US
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Now I understand, and remember the alter Ego of Quick Draw had a name.
Thank-You I was trying to think of a meaning for each letter like
=93ASAP=94
or SNAFU.
I didn=92t relate it to a nick name like cdngoose
cdngoose
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 2:57 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
I've had the KABONG handle since the early 1960's so I'm not part of any
of these Johnny Come Lately's. I've had the handle before most if not
all of them were born.
I found out the other day that one of my now retired "rookies" was
having a birthday, so having not seen him for more than 20 years I sent
him a birthday card. I signed it only KABONG. It did have a return
address but no name. Mailed it on Tuesday, 6:59am Thursday I got a call
from "Buzz", he knew who sent it & called 411.
The handle is "KABONG" (all caps) not El Kabong of Hanna-Barber cartoon
fame.
Do Not Archive. KABONG HRII N561FS (GBA & GWB)
Have been asked that before, here's a "short" response.
While a Patrol Sgt. on Fontana PD (early 60's) I went to a City
masquerade party in all black western gear, complete with guns. Someone
ask if I were the infamous gunfighter "Quicks Draw McGraw". One of my
patrolman chimed in "Naw, he's El Kabong" (Q.D.McG 's alter ego, Long
Ranger mask, black hat, cape and a guitar). They (my patrolman) used the
shortened "Kabong" to identify me & the name stuck.
My use of the shotgun as a baton was the basis of the comment. El Kabong
"kabongs" bad guys with a guitar. While I was a patrol Sgt on Fontana PD
I broke the wooden stocks of two 12 ga shotguns by using the shotgun
more like a baton. First time a guy took a blindside swing at me while I
was breaking up a bar fight. I stuck the barrel in the flight of his
fist. He struck it so hard he broke his hand and the stock hit him in
the gut area. That broke stock #1. A coupla weeks later there was a ten
on one gang fight at a wedding. The ring leader (who I knew) headed for
the back door. I was able to stick the stock between the persons in the
crowd at his eye level, he ran into it and "clothesline" himself. You
know one second your running full tilt and the next your head makes
contact with an immovable object & your feet & butt are instantly above
you head. So much for wooden stock #2.
I had a loooong talk with my Chief. It ended with my asking about
getting the city to buy one of the LAPD SWAT team riot stocks for
"tests" and mount it on my 12 ga. They had a solid rubber type that is
stock looking but it had kind of a molded in "pistol grip" also. It
bends and rebounds without breaking. The Chief only asked that I not
charge the city for any more stocks. We found out that they only came
with new Ithaca shotguns so the Chief/City bought a new complete one.
Never broke another stock, also learned to used the other end which was
a lot stronger.
No, I never did have to shoot anyone with 00 buck, I think it was
because the perp's believed I really would shoot them and maybe mixed in
with a little of the Kabong legend.
They were right, I would have.
When I started building and posting on the lists with Tom and I used
kabong as a handle. From Bakersfield to OSH I'm remembered not as John
H. "Jack" Starn but rather as "KABONG".
Spent 5 plus years helping in the building of retired USAF Maj. Tom
Gummo's HRII Rocket N561FS. Tom was an F-4 Wild Weasel with a name and
body shape (his words) he was Gummibear.
Most So. Cal RV guys have call sign (handle) and somewhere about 10-11
years ago someone asked if I had a "call sign" and I told the story.
KABONG still sticks. Yes, as a matter of fact I do have videos of all
the cartoons that features "El Kabong" . KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:ding@tbscc.com"lynn dingfelder
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: KABONG ?
John,
From the Zenith list, what does KABONG mean?
Lynn
corry, PA
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
--
8/31/2006
--
________________________________ Message 6 ____________________________
_________
Time: 07:20:03 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like spots
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
Subject: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like spots
I've noticed that my sweat is causing white spots in the metal surface
that cannot be removed with lacquer thinner after the sweat have been
left for a while. In some cases these white spots have develop into some
type of white corrosion (filiform) that I have removed with scoth-brite.
Is this common? Should I be concerned?
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
In Southwestern Louisiana it is not just common, it is normal. No need
for concern there..... major need for an airconditioner. I am ordering
mine today.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
sweaty 601XL / fuselage
Do Not Archive
Do Not sweat on the expensive aluminum
________________________________ Message 7 ____________________________
_________
Time: 08:17:48 AM PST US
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
You guys recommending a hardwood instead of softwood for flanging dies ju
st
don't understand wood. "Hardwood" designates a wood that is from a decid
ous
tree. "Softwood" referrs to a wood that come from a coniferous tree. It
has
very little to do with the strength of the wood. For instance, Aspen (ha
rdwood)
is very soft and would be easily carved with a pocket knife. Southern
Longleaf Pine (softwood) is exceptionally strong, hard, dense and would b
e very
difficult to carve with any knife. In fact, the old Conestoga wagon buil
ders
preferred Southern Pine to Oak for their wagon frames. You will find only
softwoods listed in any table of properties of wood for structural uses.
(FACTS)
(OPINION) In the case of flanging dies, the strength of the wood has some
bearing, but workability, texture and durability are more important. Pers
onally,
I think that the "artificial" wood products made for outdoor deck constru
ction
would beat any kind of "natural" wood for flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
________________________________ Message 8 ____________________________
_________
Time: 08:39:43 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like spots
Women often fail to appreciate the finer qualities that attach to
nerdiness. Let her run off with a bad boy and see how long that lasts.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN STARN
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots
Just remember that it's your friends that kid you.
A: Because they can. and
B: Because they care.
They wouldn't spend the time or energy ribbing you if they didn't.
KABONG Do Not Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinbonds
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots
No offense guys, but my wife says, "it's funny that you are such a
nerd, that even your nerd friends make fun of you". Thanks guys.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
________________________________ Message 9 ____________________________
_________
Time: 08:41:06 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
DUH!!! At a Russian plywood plant..... wasn't that obvious?
Ed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> I also used wooden flanging dies similar to your's.
> The person who made them available to me made them out
> of "Russian plywood". He also made all forming blocs
> using that material. It is a very good plywood, but I
> have no idea where we can find this.
________________________________ Message 10 ___________________________
_________
Time: 08:41:11 AM PST US
From: "Andrew Ackland" <andrewack@clara.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
You are right, the softest hardwood is BALSAWOOD! How long would a flang
ing
die made from that hardwood last?
Andy Ackland in the UK
601HD, tail done, working on wings.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: 03 September 2006 16:16
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
"Softwood" referrs to a wood that come from a coniferous tree. It has
very little to do with the strength of the wood
________________________________ Message 11 ___________________________
_________
Time: 08:51:09 AM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding up just fi
ne.
Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood products made
for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural" wood for
flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
________________________________ Message 12 ___________________________
_________
Time: 08:53:35 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Don't feel bad. At one time or another, all men spend some time thinking
about pressure-treated pine. It's just a phase that you are going
through. In the end, you will come to the realization that if pressure
treated wood requires the use of specially coated screws so that your
fence or deck does not fall apart in a couple of years, then it probably
isn't a good material to use to squeeze aircraft aluminum into shape.
There now, take a deep breath.... feel better?
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: J2j3h4@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm thinking of using pressure-treated pine. If you have ever worked
with this, you know that it is very hard.
Jim Hasper
________________________________ Message 13 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:01:44 AM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Mark-
You don't want to know what KABONG means in Bob+Tom parlance. Then
again, maybe you do!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
45%HDS
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Zodie Rocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Now I understand, and remember the alter Ego of Quick Draw had a name.
Thank-You I was trying to think of a meaning for each letter like
=93ASAP=94 or SNAFU.
I didn=92t relate it to a nick name like cdngoose
cdngoose
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 2:57 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
I've had the KABONG handle since the early 1960's so I'm not part of
any of these Johnny Come Lately's. I've had the handle before most if
not all of them were born.
I found out the other day that one of my now retired "rookies" was
having a birthday, so having not seen him for more than 20 years I sent
him a birthday card. I signed it only KABONG. It did have a return
address but no name. Mailed it on Tuesday, 6:59am Thursday I got a call
from "Buzz", he knew who sent it & called 411.
The handle is "KABONG" (all caps) not El Kabong of Hanna-Barber
cartoon fame.
Do Not Archive. KABONG HRII N561FS (GBA & GWB)
Have been asked that before, here's a "short" response.
While a Patrol Sgt. on Fontana PD (early 60's) I went to a City
masquerade party in all black western gear, complete with guns. Someone
ask if I were the infamous gunfighter "Quicks Draw McGraw". One of my
patrolman chimed in "Naw, he's El Kabong" (Q.D.McG 's alter ego, Long
Ranger mask, black hat, cape and a guitar). They (my patrolman) used the
shortened "Kabong" to identify me & the name stuck.
My use of the shotgun as a baton was the basis of the comment. El
Kabong "kabongs" bad guys with a guitar. While I was a patrol Sgt on
Fontana PD I broke the wooden stocks of two 12 ga shotguns by using the
shotgun more like a baton. First time a guy took a blindside swing at me
while I was breaking up a bar fight. I stuck the barrel in the flight of
his fist. He struck it so hard he broke his hand and the stock hit him
in the gut area. That broke stock #1. A coupla weeks later there was a
ten on one gang fight at a wedding. The ring leader (who I knew) headed
for the back door. I was able to stick the stock between the persons in
the crowd at his eye level, he ran into it and "clothesline" himself.
You know one second your running full tilt and the next your head makes
contact with an immovable object & your feet & butt are instantly above
you head. So much for wooden stock #2.
I had a loooong talk with my Chief. It ended with my asking about
getting the city to buy one of the LAPD SWAT team riot stocks for
"tests" and mount it on my 12 ga. They had a solid rubber type that is
stock looking but it had kind of a molded in "pistol grip" also. It
bends and rebounds without breaking. The Chief only asked that I not
charge the city for any more stocks. We found out that they only came
with new Ithaca shotguns so the Chief/City bought a new complete one.
Never broke another stock, also learned to used the other end which was
a lot stronger.
No, I never did have to shoot anyone with 00 buck, I think it was
because the perp's believed I really would shoot them and maybe mixed in
with a little of the Kabong legend.
They were right, I would have.
When I started building and posting on the lists with Tom and I used
kabong as a handle. From Bakersfield to OSH I'm remembered not as John
H. "Jack" Starn but rather as "KABONG".
Spent 5 plus years helping in the building of retired USAF Maj. Tom
Gummo's HRII Rocket N561FS. Tom was an F-4 Wild Weasel with a name and
body shape (his words) he was Gummibear.
Most So. Cal RV guys have call sign (handle) and somewhere about 10-11
years ago someone asked if I had a "call sign" and I told the story.
KABONG still sticks. Yes, as a matter of fact I do have videos of all
the cartoons that features "El Kabong" . KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: lynn dingfelder
To: jhstarn@verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: KABONG ?
John,
From the Zenith list, what does KABONG mean?
Lynn
corry, PA
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
--> - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-->
--
8/31/2006
--
9/1/2006
________________________________ Message 14 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:02:42 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: When the rivet hole gets too big
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Use the same size rivet WITH JB Weld freshly placed in the hole. That way
the final appearance is uniform, the strength is adequate and everyone is
happy. As the JB Weld starts to "gel" (watch your timing carefully) a cle
an
putty knife damp (not dripping wet) with denatured alcohol will allow you
to
smooth any exposed epoxy material. 12 hours later, a little careful 400 g
rit
sand paper and you're groovin'.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 1:29 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: When the rivet hole gets too big
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
>
> When doing side two of my trailing edge rudder skin, one of my last hol
es
> "walked" on me. It was the end rivet on rear rib #3, and it became obl
ong
> in a big hurry. Ouch.
>
> Since it is in a non-structural area, I'm looking for a good way to
> recover. BTW, I'm planning to paint the plane, so I'll have opportunit
y
> down the road to fill and shape if that is required/makes sense.
>
> One lister has already suggested a larger rivet (A5) and JB Weld if the
re
> is still a void. What would you suggest?
>
> --------
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> 601XL #6493 from scratch
> Rudder skin clecoed and ready to prime/rivet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59157#59157
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 15 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:04:25 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Bellach
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine is very soft compared to true hardwoods like oak, walnut, and
hickory, and you shouldn't need the poison of the PT. I can't see using
fragile soft wood like pine or birch unless you are going to whittle it
by hand with a pocket knife. Modern power tools don't care if they are
cutting hard or soft wood, and the hard wood would be more durable.
'Course I'm in the hardwoods country of the Ozarks where these woods are
plentiful. I'll soon be burning a truck load of hardwood scraps to keep
warm, free from a local mill, and most would be ideal chunks to cut dies
from. There is one advantage to plywood - the cross grain would prevent
cracking with the grain. I'd use ply before PT.
________________________________ Message 16 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:19:50 AM PST US
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite, but can't
tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone know what h
e
prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody
II
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
________________________________ Message 17 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:27:06 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Hard woods
Members,
I am not any where near as knowledgeable about the various kinds of
wood available to builders to make rib dies, or anything else but I have
been making all kinds of things out of wood for about 60 years and In my
opinion based on experience nothing can beat oak. If you make it out of
oak it will still be serviceable when all on this list are cooling their
heels in pilot heaven. As one of you said, there are man made composite
materials like super hard plastics that can be cut, shaped, etc with
wood working tools but I have no idea what their life span would be.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
________________________________ Message 18 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:30:51 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Ed,
If I understand correctly, shortly after I fill the hole with JBW I place
the rivet
and pull. Does the sudden action of the rivet pull run the risk of defor
ming
the JBW and displacing a gob of it which might fall into the bowels of my
rudder? If not, I'll likely go this route.
Another option I had considered was to JB Weld it before I debur the rudd
er skin.
That way I can fill the void of the hole (with some kind of temporary bac
king),
allow it to dry (using your putty knife/denatured alcohol approach), then
hit it with the 400 grit sandpaper to reproduce a smooth outer surface th
at
I can re-drill (the right way this time!).
What do you think?
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL #6493 from scratch
Rudder skin clecoed and ready to prime/rivet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59223#59223
________________________________ Message 19 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:36:00 AM PST US
From: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
I built mine from plywood scraps too, Gary.
They worked fine. Used one set of plywood flanging dies to scratch-build
the whole airplane, and they're still in good shape... except the ones I
trimmed too much to get into tight places.
I tried using a single bolt to draw the plywood dies together to form
the flanges, but found that I had better/easier results when I squoze
the dies together with some big ol' "C" clamps.
Rick Pitcher
all flanged up and flying :)
"squoze"???
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding up just
fine. Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood products
made for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural" wood
for flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/1/2006
________________________________ Message 20 ___________________________
_________
Time: 09:41:45 AM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
John and all-
Accept my greatest respect for the "Up close and personal" way you
got your e-mail "Handle". Zenith builders are a pretty remarkable crew.
The shop I work at is on final for the Erie, Pa. airport and Friday
I noticed a slew of Blackhawks filing in (Probably to refuel) Around the
lunch table, someone said "He (The perp) just robbed a sporting goods
store and has over 40 guns. Talk about dangerous!"
My observation was "Having the best deer rifle doesn't mean JS when
you're facing chain guns."
I know I've asked it before, but never got a definitive answer. EAA
said you couldn't do it from a sport pilot perspective.
HDS builders are also allowed to build a set of HD wings. I'm not
talking sport pilot- can you legally cross register experimental and fly
with either set of wings? I know a number of HDS builders have
considered it.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa.
________________________________ Message 21 ___________________________
_________
Time: 10:30:50 AM PST US
From: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Swapping wings
Just catching up on the Zenith list emails this morning and saw a post
from Bill Naumak asking about swapping the wings on the HD and HDS
Zodiacs. His question was added-on to a reply on another thread so I'm
posing the question here under a new header.
I built the HD version but would like to try the clipped/tapered HDS, so
I bought a set of plans and some ribs for the HDS outer wing panels and
planned on building them when I'm finished with my current project.
I'll build the HDS wings and fly off some more flight test hours, but I
don't want to leave the HDS wings on the plane permanantly. I really
LIKE my big slow-n-easy HD wings too.
After I flight tested the new HDS wings, can I just swap the outter wing
panels whenever I want with just a logbook entry? Or is it more
involved?
Thanks,
Rick Pitcher
CH601HD
http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday.html
________________________________ Message 22 ___________________________
_________
Time: 11:16:21 AM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Hi Bill,
I agree with you completely about the chain guns. Alas, the Sport
Pilot issue is a lot more fuzzy.
All the issues surrounding registration as an LSA don't play into the
limits of Sport Pilots at all. The determination as to whether a
plane is acceptable for Sport Pilot use depends on the plane's
performance rather than its registration. If the plane currently
performs within LSA limits then it is acceptable for use by a Sport
Pilot. It is that simple.
Let me move into the realm of conjecture now rather than matters of
fact. I recently read the final accident report involving the death
of the Walton heir in an ultralight crash. It turns out it wasn't a
legal ultralight at all. It had two seats. I couldn't really make a
lot of sense out of the cause for the crash, but it was clear the
aircraft was illegal to start with since it was a two seat
ultralight. It was complicated by the fact that it had had a hard
landing which caused considerable structural damage. The owner
decided to fix it himself rather than allowing the manufacturer to do
the repairs - which they apparently begged and pleaded with him to
do. In the end they supplied the parts and the owner completely blew
the repairs. He didn't install all the parts before flying, and
those parts he did install were not properly done. He made major
design changes and failed to actually fix all the problems created in
the control system. HIs fatal crash seems to have been caused by the
elevator controls seizing up and preventing him from controlling the
aircraft's pitch. It flew into the ground and got all squashed up
along with the pilot.
My conjecture is that the FAA and NTSB folks really hate the
situation created with ultralights and their two seat cousins. They
are going to great lengths to get the ultralight community and
particularly those members of that community flying two seat aircraft
back into the fold of regulation, pilot licensing, and generally
accepted practice of aircraft construction, maintenance and
repair. To do this they have given up complete control over the
aircraft design (Part 23) along with medical certification for pilots
so long as the operations are limited to two seat aircraft that are
not heavy enough to do a lot of damage when they hit something on the
ground. I have seen and heard of examples of great leniency in their
determinations related to Experimental LSA. In one case a newly
built KitFox was given a 5 hour phase I flight test period. In
another case, a conversion with a cockpit adjustable propeller was
allowed so long as a placard was installed saying "Do not adjust
propeller in flight".
The bottom line of my whole diatribe is that we spend a lot of time
and energy worrying about the nitty gritty details of the new
regulations while the FAA inspectors bend over backward to allow
airworthiness certificates for anything relatively close to the
limits. This probably won't last forever, but so long as they are
getting fools who fly unregistered airplanes that are improperly
maintained to change their ways I think the FAA folks will continue
to be extremely cooperative.
Sorry about the long post, but I have been wanting to vent that
thought for a while now.
do not archive
Paul
XL fuselage
> I know I've asked it before, but never got a definitive answer.
> EAA said you couldn't do it from a sport pilot perspective.
> HDS builders are also allowed to build a set of HD wings. I'm
> not talking sport pilot- can you legally cross register
> experimental and fly with either set of wings? I know a number of
> HDS builders have considered it.
>
>Bill Naumuk
>
>HDS Fuselage
>
>Townville, Pa.
>
-
________________________________ Message 23 ___________________________
_________
Time: 11:35:42 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
Hay Rick,
There are all kinds of ways to press. Did you hear about the guy
who used his car. He put the flanging die under one of the front wheels
and jacked the car up and down with an air driven bumper jack. All it
takes is a good imagination. And the will to stick with it until you
are flying an airplane you built and there is nothing like it.
Bob Stone
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: R.P.
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
I built mine from plywood scraps too, Gary.
They worked fine. Used one set of plywood flanging dies to
scratch-build the whole airplane, and they're still in good shape...
except the ones I trimmed too much to get into tight places.
I tried using a single bolt to draw the plywood dies together to form
the flanges, but found that I had better/easier results when I squoze
the dies together with some big ol' "C" clamps.
Rick Pitcher
all flanged up and flying :)
"squoze"???
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding up
just fine. Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood products
made for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural" wood
for flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 9/1/2006
________________________________ Message 24 ___________________________
_________
Time: 11:59:55 AM PST US
From: Daniel Dempsey <leinad@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Gary,
Nice work. There's been a lot of talk about using a better material. We
ll here's
one more. Consider using masonite or MDF. I made my set of dies from a
combination
of 3/4" thick fiberboard and 1/4" masonite. These materials provide
a few advantages. I did all my flanging with these and they showed no wa
re
and tear. It's hard and there is no grain. Best of all, it's cheap co
mpared
to plywood. I bought a 4x8 sheet of the 3/4 fiberboard for under 10 dol
lars.
I made all my form blocks and dies from that sheet, with exception of the
form for the firewall that I had already made from plywood.
I looked into these materials when someone on this list suggested using t
he plastic
wood now available for deck materials. I like the idea, but I found that
these were very expensive.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 7:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my center
section
and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have been known t
o stare
at the ceiling in the middle of the night, visualizing how I could build
flanging dies out of wood.
Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and in an
obvious
effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the babies of machinis
ts,
I finally made, and used (successfully), flanging dies out of plywood!
I hope the attachments are within the abilities of all to download, and
, since
this is my first attempt at attaching an image, I am currently sitting un
comfortably
in my asbestos underwear.
Wood is really what I am most comfortable with. Switching from a Pieten
pol to
a 601 was a last minute decision after completing the WW Corvair Conversi
on.
Any of you wood-chucks out there, like me, who wish a more detailed accou
nt can
e-mail me directly. (any body skinned their 601 fuselage with plywood?..
..just
kidding.)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
________________________________ Message 25 ___________________________
_________
Time: 12:12:55 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-Etching primer FYI
From: "John" <johndread@wildblue.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <johndread@wildblue.net>
Hi Dave:
I looked at the Dupli color material but it did not appear t
o
be suitable for aluminum. The self etch primer sold by NAPA
mentioned in an earlier listing is. 985 made by Sherwin
Williams also works well.
do not archive.
Regards, John
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay"
> <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
> The self-etching primer I have been buying from my local auto parts sto
re
> is
> actually manufactured by Dupli-Color. Out of curiosity I called and ask
ed
> their tech support a few questions. My main concern was related to
> topcoating. The tech rep said this is not needed for internal
> applications.
> It would be needed if the primer was applied to external surfaces as it
> contains no UV inhibitors. Just thought I'd pass this along.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> 601XL Scratch Builder
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get real-time traffic reports with Windows Live Local Search
> http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=42.336065~-109.392273&sty
le=r&lvl=4&scene=3712634&trfc=1
>
>
Regards, John Read
________________________________ Message 26 ___________________________
_________
Time: 01:05:48 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Self-Etching primer FYI
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
Hey John,
This particular primer says "Ideal for Aluminum" right on the front of th
e can.
The tech support person also said it was fine for my inteneded purpose. I
t really
seems to adhere very well. Possibly, we're talking about different produc
ts.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59251#59251
________________________________ Message 27 ___________________________
_________
Time: 01:22:59 PM PST US
From: J2j3h4@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm not planning to leave the wood in contact with the aluminum for very
long. I figure that the short contact time will save me from having to u
se an
acid metal prep. :)
Jim
In a message dated 9/3/2006 10:54:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
dredmoody@cox.net writes:
Don't feel bad. At one time or another, all men spend some time thinking
about pressure-treated pine. It's just a phase that you are going through
. In
the end, you will come to the realization that if pressure treated wood
requires the use of specially coated screws so that your fence or deck do
es not
fall
apart in a couple of years, then it probably isn't a good material to us
e to
squeeze aircraft aluminum into shape. There now, take a deep breath....
feel
better?
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: _J2j3h4@aol.com_ (mailto:J2j3h4@aol.com)
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm thinking of using pressure-treated pine. If you have ever worked wi
th
this, you know that it is very hard.
Jim Hasper
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________ Message 28 ___________________________
_________
Time: 02:24:03 PM PST US
From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping wings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Rick,
I believe you'd only need to have a POH that indicated performance specs
and maintenance for both types of wing or perhaps a separate POH that wen
t
with the wing set you were using at the time. Registration should be
the same. Shouldn't be more complex than flying with or without wheel
pants in
my opinion.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
R.P. wrote:
> Just catching up on the Zenith list emails this morning and saw a post
> from Bill Naumak asking about swapping the wings on the HD and HDS
> Zodiacs. His question was added-on to a reply on another thread so I'm
> posing the question here under a new header.
>
> I built the HD version but would like to try the clipped/tapered HDS,
> so I bought a set of plans and some ribs for the HDS outer wing panels
> and planned on building them when I'm finished with my current project.
> I'll build the HDS wings and fly off some more flight test hours, but
> I don't want to leave the HDS wings on the plane permanantly. I
> really LIKE my big slow-n-easy HD wings too.
> After I flight tested the new HDS wings, can I just swap the
> outter wing panels whenever I want with just a logbook entry? Or is it
> more involved?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Pitcher
> CH601HD
> http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday.html
>
>*
>
>*
>
________________________________ Message 29 ___________________________
_________
Time: 02:52:53 PM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
I've only built my first airplane, assisted on two others and am in the
middle of my own second plane so be warned my advice is based on only tha
t
experience which is far from vast. With that disclaimer out of the way, I
wouldn't allow the JB Weld to set, then perfect it, then redrill and set
the
rivet. I'd be afraid that the epoxy would, (A) have only the edge of the
hole to bond to, (B) would be only as about thin as the aluminum sheet
itself, and (C) would brake off when the rivet was squeezed (our Avex riv
ets
expand to fill slightly irreguar holes). I'm not 100% positive but that's
why I would do the JB Weld and the rivet in the same time frame. Don't go
b
it on but if some does get into the bowels of the rudder, I don't think t
he
rudder bowel gods would be terribly overcome with wrath. The rivet will m
ost
definitely displace the epoxy material.... some inside and some outside.
The
excess on the outside I would conservatively remove (a little bead of the
stuff around the set rivet head wouldn't be a bad thing). The excess on t
he
inside would be the part I would count on to keep it in place and stable.
Remember like using the Black Death on an RV tank, if you have a cleco in
that hole clean in before the epoxy sets (alcohol work well).
Don't worry about this repair too much. If this is your greatest concessi
on
to perfect aircraft construction, you are one blessed pilgrim, honestly.
Ed
Do Not Archive
Do Not get JB Weld in your bowels either
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
>
> Ed,
>
> If I understand correctly, shortly after I fill the hole with JBW I pla
ce
> the rivet and pull. Does the sudden action of the rivet pull run the r
isk
> of deforming the JBW and displacing a gob of it which might fall into t
he
> bowels of my rudder? If not, I'll likely go this route.
>
> Another option I had considered was to JB Weld it before I debur the
> rudder skin. That way I can fill the void of the hole (with some kind
of
> temporary backing), allow it to dry (using your putty knife/denatured
> alcohol approach), then hit it with the 400 grit sandpaper to reproduce
a
> smooth outer surface that I can re-drill (the right way this time!).
>
> What do you think?
________________________________ Message 30 ___________________________
_________
Time: 03:32:31 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
No need to apologize, Kevin. We had it coming.but if it could be determin
ed
that those were Russian Plywood trees, we might have a clue where Bigfoot
lives!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive.
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite, but can't
tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone know what h
e
prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody
II
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
________________________________ Message 31 ___________________________
_________
Time: 04:05:14 PM PST US
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
As described below, I have always understoond that Balsa is
"technically" a hardwood!
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
You guys recommending a hardwood instead of softwood for flanging dies
just don't understand wood. "Hardwood" designates a wood that is from a
decidous tree. "Softwood" referrs to a wood that come from a coniferous
tree.
________________________________ Message 32 ___________________________
_________
Time: 04:18:20 PM PST US
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New GPS in my 601XL
Ed, I went and bought the 2000C and now I am overwhelmed with the differe
nce
between it and my old G 195. I still can't get it to do what I think I wa
nt it
to do yet, but I'm wearing it down. Sure works well in bright sun light.
Best
regards, Bill
________________________________ Message 33 ___________________________
_________
Time: 04:28:12 PM PST US
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
This is very "old Hat" for nearly everyone on the list, but I couldn't
resist the opening, especially now that pics can be attached. Note the
dies are not made of plywood!
This system worked great. I still can't emphasize enough, before
flanging, sand the inside of the hole until you can run your finger
around it and feel that it is perfectly smooth. Anything less and the
flange will probably crack. I was in such a big hurry to try my dies
that I failed to do this and wound up with two cracks in a nose rib
flange. Had to make another nose rib because of this, another lesson.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, do not archive
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
Hay Rick,
There are all kinds of ways to press. Did you hear about the guy
who used his car. He put the flanging die under one of the front wheels
and jacked the car up and down with an air driven bumper jack. All it
takes is a good imagination. And the will to stick with it until you
are flying an airplane you built and there is nothing like it.
Bob Stone
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________ Message 34 ___________________________
_________
Time: 05:19:23 PM PST US
From: "j. davis" <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG DRIVING ME FRIGGEN NUTS !!!!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> -->
> Mark-
> I have no idea if this is relevant, but I've heard KABONG used by
> Chick Magee, a radio personality on the rather racy program "The Bob an
d
> Tom Show" I listen to on my commute to work. If I'm right, send the
> prize money in small bills, or a complete set of HH DVDs.
>
> do not archive
> Bill Naumuk
> 45%HDS
> Townville, Pa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Zodie Rocket <mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 02, 2006 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Zenith-List: KABONG DRIVING ME FRIGGEN NUTS !!!!
>
> I cant take it any longer !! What the Hell does KABONG stand for???
>
> **
>
> *
>
>
> *
'KABONG' has also been the signature of John Starn on the RV
list since the mid-nineties. FWIW...
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs.
building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. | (computer science) |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin | jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| c/o Brandywine Aviation | voice: 519.289.1527 |
| 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON | http://www.cleco.ca |
| N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 | 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
To most people the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and
annoys the pig.
________________________________ Message 35 ___________________________
_________
Time: 05:21:45 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing swapping
All-
Two things.
1. I have a selfish personal interest in being able to swap wings.
The HD wings allegedly provide the short field capability I'd need to
use my neighbor's pasture to fly to a local airport, where I'd leave the
plane during flying season. Once at the airport, I'd swap for the HDS
wings and cruise. Rather than have to build a special trailer for the
whole plane, I could run the extra set of wings back and forth in the
back of Ma's truck with no hassle. Can anyone with FAA connections
follow up on this? There's a lot of conjecture and rationalization
flying around but no definitive answer.
2. The ability to use pictures attached to a post is a really
powerful tool, if we don't abuse the priviledge. When you're posting a
method of doing something, why not format your post into a "Mini
builder's manual?" Much more effective than trying to explain 3
dimensional concepts using the written word alone. Keep a camera close
by and shoot at 300K resolution. Once they've been compressed to JPEG, a
2M limit allows a LOT of pictures. If you don't have JPEG compression
software, download Apple's Quicktime free on the net.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
________________________________ Message 36 ___________________________
_________
Time: 05:30:56 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: White stuff
All-
Just searched the archives but couldn't find the answer. I know the
fix was posted not too long ago.
What do you use to clean the gunk that accumulates on aluminum sheet
after it sits for a while? I think it was lacquer thinner.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
________________________________ Message 37 ___________________________
_________
Time: 06:00:52 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
You might try blasting with glass beads instead. Aluminium reacts with s
o
many things it can be hard to work with. When working with Aluminium the
Al-oxide is preferred... But it is easy to see how it won't like the oth
er
harder metals. Sounds like the thing to do was to use ultrasonic in the
first place.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Bill Cardell
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 1:17 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell"
> <Bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> Sorry, "near" is an exaggeration. The particular examples I'm
> painfully
> aware of are from a cylinder head porter using aluminum oxide to bead
> blast intake runners and ports before applying a thermal coating. What
> happens is the alu embeds in the aluminum parts and time
> releases as the
> parts heat cycle. Once it's in the intake stream and into the oil, it
> eats all the hard parts. Cylinder walls, crank journals, pins, valve
> stems, etc.
> On one of the engines I was involved with, the pins had 2 thou of wear
> after 125 miles. Car had to come back on a flatbed after 125 miles
> because it was pumping so much oil it fouled the plugs.
> According to GM, Scotchbrite wheels will accomplish the same damage if
> used to clean aluminum engine surfaces. The only way to get the stuff
> out of the pores of the aluminum is to jet clean and then ultrasonic
> cleaning.
>
>
> TurboDog's Dad
> Bill Cardell
> www.flyinmiata.com
> 1-800-FLY-MX5S
> 970-242-3800
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> Schoenberger
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 8:42 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger
> --> <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
>
> Bill . . . in what way does the aluminum oxide near an engine destroy
> it? Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive
>
> Bill Cardell wrote:
> > And whatever you do, don't get scotch-brite or any form of aluminum
> > oxide near an engine. No joke, it only takes a small amount
> to destroy
>
> > an engine. Don't ask how I know...
> > Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> > www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/> 1-800-FLY-MX5S tech
> > 970-242-3800
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *kevinbonds
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 01, 2006 7:30 PM
> > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* RE: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > You are going to have a hard time with this one, here on
> the list. The
>
> > joke around here is that, all you have to do to ruffle some
> feathers
> > is mention "green scotch-brite" pads. The short of it is,
> every time
> > someone asks this question it leads to a flood of posts that do
> > nothing but confuse everyone. The only wise advice I can
> give you is
> > to be sure that you know what abrasive is in your pad (or
> sandpaper)
> > AC 43.13 says no Silicon Carbide; no iron oxide; for corrosive
> > reasons. Use only Aluminum Oxide or Garnet as an abrasive mineral.
> > Also, I have found the 3M website and packaging to be notoriously
> > lacking in this sort of information about their products. I
> have had
> > to call Customer Service on occasion and wait a while for
> them to hunt
>
> > the info down for me. I get a blank stare from auto paint
> shops when I
>
> > ask them about mineral content. Just know that this is not easily
> > answered.
> >
> > I'm convinced that, if we ever find Bigfoot, he will be holding a
> > green scotch-brite pad.
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> >
> > Nashville TN
> >
> > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> >
> > Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> >
> > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> > <http://home.comcast.net/%7Ekevinbonds>
> >
> > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *Hudsonmusic1@aol.com
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 01, 2006 4:22 PM
> > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
> >
> > Are the green scotchbrite pads you buy at wal-mart the same as the
> > ones you buy from the aircraft supply store? Thanks Jeff
> >
> > * *
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 38 ___________________________
_________
Time: 06:06:57 PM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
He ain't dumb - he uses his GPS to locate those synthetic trees that are
strong and stable for his dies, and only scotchbrites the surfaces that
don't contact the AL.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinbonds
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite, but
can't tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone know
what he prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward
Moody II
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
________________________________ Message 39 ___________________________
_________
Time: 06:23:02 PM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
He's not in Louisiana.... he's got too much fur for our heat and
besides, Cajuns would have turned him into jambalaya long ago.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
No need to apologize, Kevin. We had it coming.but if it could be
determined that those were Russian Plywood trees, we might have a clue
where Bigfoot lives!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive.
________________________________ Message 40 ___________________________
_________
Time: 07:21:20 PM PST US
From: ihab.awad@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
On 9/3/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
> Mostly, I thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create the
> male and female bevels.
Hm ... didn't see the pictures of *those*. I'm curious.... -- Ihab
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
________________________________ Message 41 ___________________________
_________
Time: 07:37:07 PM PST US
From: Michael Parsons <gyro_cfi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: performance at cruise
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Parsons <gyro_cfi@yahoo.com>
Hi,
Does anyone have performance figures for 601xl at
altitude with Franklin and/or Corvair Engine. Data
wanted: TAS @ Den. Alt.; Fuel consumption at same;
Empty weight of acft; Also weight and balance figures
for acft. CG fore and aft limits and moment of fuel
tanks and pilot location.
Just want to make sure this is the acft for me and my
wife.
Thanks Mike
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 42 ___________________________
_________
Time: 07:47:56 PM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Me too! Who cares if the wood is hard or soft. I too missed the important
part - THE JIG!
Don not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
>
> On 9/3/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>> Mostly, I thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create the
>> male and female bevels.
>
> Hm ... didn't see the pictures of *those*. I'm curious.... -- Ihab
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --
> Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 43 ___________________________
_________
Time: 08:02:45 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Sorry guys...call it...delayed gratification...
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Me too! Who cares if the wood is hard or soft. I too missed the important
part - THE JIG!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
>
> On 9/3/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>> Mostly, I thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create the
>> male and female bevels.
>
> Hm ... didn't see the pictures of *those*. I'm curious.... -- Ihab
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --
> Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 44 ___________________________
_________
Time: 08:17:39 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
Rick,
I, too, tried the C clamps on the first 3 holes. In the end I found the
ball peen clamp the quickest (kinda like the "200 lb Press).
Gary
I built mine from plywood scraps too, Gary.
They worked fine. Used one set of plywood flanging dies to scratch-build
the
whole airplane, and they're still in good shape... except the ones I trim
med
too much to get into tight places.
I tried using a single bolt to draw the plywood dies together to form the
flanges, but found that I had better/easier results when I squoze the die
s
together with some big ol' "C" clamps.
Rick Pitcher
all flanged up and flying :)
"squoze"???
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding up just fi
ne.
Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood products made
for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural" wood for
flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
_____
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Unsubscibe!!!! |
YOU have to UNSUBSCRIBE, just like you SUBSCRIBED. Go to
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/.
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
----- Original Message -----
From: Alisia Campbell
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Unsubscibe!!!!
Unsubscribe!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Zenith-List Digest Server
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:44 AM
To: Zenith-List Digest List
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 09/03/06
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
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.txt
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 09/03/06: 44
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robin Bellach)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robert L. Stone)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Lock / Rudder Lock? (dbortol)
4. 06:24 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Zodie Rocket)
6. 07:20 AM - Re: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots (Edward Moody II)
7. 08:17 AM - Flanging Dies (Jaybannist@cs.com)
8. 08:39 AM - Re: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots (Edward Moody II)
9. 08:41 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
10. 08:41 AM - Re: Flanging Dies (Andrew Ackland)
11. 08:51 AM - Re: Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
12. 08:53 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
13. 09:01 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Bill Naumuk)
14. 09:02 AM - Re: When the rivet hole gets too big (Edward
Moody II)
15. 09:04 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
16. 09:19 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (kevinbonds)
17. 09:27 AM - Hard woods (Robert L. Stone)
18. 09:30 AM - Re: When the rivet hole gets too big (lwinger)
19. 09:36 AM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (R.P.)
20. 09:41 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Bill Naumuk)
21. 10:30 AM - Swapping wings (R.P.)
22. 11:16 AM - Re: KABONG ? (Paul Mulwitz)
23. 11:35 AM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (Robert L.
Stone)
24. 11:59 AM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Daniel Dempsey)
25. 12:12 PM - Re: Self-Etching primer FYI (John)
26. 01:05 PM - Re: Self-Etching primer FYI (TxDave)
27. 01:22 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (J2j3h4@aol.com)
28. 02:24 PM - Re: Swapping wings (LarryMcFarland)
29. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big (Edward
Moody II)
30. 03:32 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
31. 04:05 PM - Re: Flanging Dies (Randy L. Thwing)
32. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: New GPS in my 601XL
(JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
33. 04:28 PM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (Randy L.
Thwing)
34. 05:19 PM - Re: KABONG DRIVING ME FRIGGEN NUTS !!!! (j.
davis)
35. 05:21 PM - Wing swapping (Bill Naumuk)
36. 05:30 PM - White stuff (Bill Naumuk)
37. 06:00 PM - Re: Scotchbrite pad Question. (Noel Loveys)
38. 06:06 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robin Bellach)
39. 06:23 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Edward Moody II)
40. 07:21 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
(ihab.awad@gmail.com)
41. 07:37 PM - performance at cruise (Michael Parsons)
42. 07:47 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Robin Bellach)
43. 08:02 PM - Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies (Gary Boothe)
44. 08:17 PM - Re: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK (Gary
Boothe)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 05:09:02 AM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine is very soft compared to true hardwoods like oak, walnut, and
hickory, and you shouldn't need the poison of the PT. I can't see
using
fragile soft wood like pine or birch unless you are going to whittle
it
by hand with a pocket knife. Modern power tools don't care if they
are
cutting hard or soft wood, and the hard wood would be more durable.
'Course I'm in the hardwoods country of the Ozarks where these woods
are
plentiful. I'll soon be burning a truck load of hardwood scraps to
keep
warm, free from a local mill, and most would be ideal chunks to cut
dies
from. There is one advantage to plywood - the cross grain would
prevent
cracking with the grain. I'd use ply before PT.
----- Original Message -----
From: J2j3h4@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm thinking of using pressure-treated pine. If you have ever
worked
with this, you know that it is very hard.
Jim Hasper
In a message dated 9/2/2006 9:12:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
<p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I agree that Russian plywood is really good. It is not the same
sort
of low-quality junk plywood available at the Harry Home-owner
stores
at all. It is usually at least 7 layers of Birch. You get more
layers as you get thicker plywood. It is also called Nordic
Birch
plywood - some of it even comes from countries other than
Russia.
I can get it at two different wood stores in Portland, OR. I
like
using it for all sorts of stuff around the shop including nice
wood
boxes. You can probably find it at higher class hardwood
outlets
rather than construction lumber companies.
Paul
XL fuselage
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:40:58 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Gary,
Beautiful work on the flanging die. Considering the quality of
your wood work I can see only one thing wrong, you should have used
hard
wood then your die would last a lot longer. Your die looks like
western
fir and if it is, that's a soft wood.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my
center
section and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have
been known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night,
visualizing how I could build flanging dies out of wood.
Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and
in an
obvious effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the
babies of
machinists, I finally made, and used (successfully), flanging dies
out
of plywood!
I hope the attachments are within the abilities of all to
download,
and, since this is my first attempt at attaching an image, I am
currently sitting uncomfortably in my asbestos underwear.
Wood is really what I am most comfortable with. Switching from a
Pietenpol to a 601 was a last minute decision after completing the
WW
Corvair Conversion. Any of you wood-chucks out there, like me, who
wish
a more detailed account can e-mail me directly. (any body skinned
their
601 fuselage with plywood?....just kidding.)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 06:04:10 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Aileron Lock / Rudder Lock?
From: "dbortol" <dbortol@gmail.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" <dbortol@gmail.com>
Thanks Gary, I hope it will be useful. I remembered after sending it
out that the
plane I saw it on was an HDS, so it has a fixed trailing edge to
lock the ailerons
to. On an XL you'd have to raise the flaps (and make sure nobody
steps
on them, ouch!).
Dino Bortolin
La Salle, Ontario
XL/Corvair
[quote="gboothe(at)calply.com"]Dino,
Nice sketch. Who needs a picture!?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
[b]From:[/b] owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Dino
Bortolin
[b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:02 AM
[b]To:[/b] zenith-list@matronics.com
[b]Subject:[/b] Re: 601 Aileron Lock / Rudder Lock?
I saw a very simple control lock on a 601 at Oshkosh. I can't recall
the builder's
name, but he was based at Osh. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture
of the
lock. I drew up a sketch (attached) that should give you the idea.
The dimensions
are approximate; some amount of 'eyeball engineering' is required. I
think
he had one on each outboard end of the elevator, and the flaps were
retracted
with another between each flap and aileron.
Dino Bortolin
La Salle, Ontario
601/Corvair
[quote][b][/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59174#59174
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 06:24:35 AM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Bob,
Of course you are right. This being the "prototype", and the fact
that it
worked so well, I'll make the two smaller ones out of oak. A few
weeks ago
someone posted that they had used some of that man-made wood decking
material with good results. A person can use whatever they want.
Mostly, I
thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create the male and
female
bevels.
Gary
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L. Stone
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Gary,
Beautiful work on the flanging die. Considering the quality of
your
wood work I can see only one thing wrong, you should have used hard
wood
then your die would last a lot longer. Your die looks like western
fir and
if it is, that's a soft wood.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my
center
section and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have
been
known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night,
visualizing how I
could build flanging dies out of wood.
Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and in
an
obvious effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the
babies of
machinists, I finally made, and used (successfully), flanging dies
out of
plywood!
I hope the attachments are within the abilities of all to download,
and,
since this is my first attempt at attaching an image, I am currently
sitting
uncomfortably in my asbestos underwear.
Wood is really what I am most comfortable with. Switching from a
Pietenpol
to a 601 was a last minute decision after completing the WW Corvair
Conversion. Any of you wood-chucks out there, like me, who wish a
more
detailed account can e-mail me directly. (any body skinned their
601
fuselage with plywood?....just kidding.)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 06:49:32 AM PST US
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Now I understand, and remember the alter Ego of Quick Draw had a
name.
Thank-You I was trying to think of a meaning for each letter like
=93ASAP=94
or SNAFU.
I didn=92t relate it to a nick name like cdngoose
cdngoose
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
STARN
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 2:57 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
I've had the KABONG handle since the early 1960's so I'm not part of
any
of these Johnny Come Lately's. I've had the handle before most if
not
all of them were born.
I found out the other day that one of my now retired "rookies" was
having a birthday, so having not seen him for more than 20 years I
sent
him a birthday card. I signed it only KABONG. It did have a return
address but no name. Mailed it on Tuesday, 6:59am Thursday I got a
call
from "Buzz", he knew who sent it & called 411.
The handle is "KABONG" (all caps) not El Kabong of Hanna-Barber
cartoon
fame.
Do Not Archive. KABONG HRII N561FS (GBA & GWB)
Have been asked that before, here's a "short" response.
While a Patrol Sgt. on Fontana PD (early 60's) I went to a City
masquerade party in all black western gear, complete with guns.
Someone
ask if I were the infamous gunfighter "Quicks Draw McGraw". One of
my
patrolman chimed in "Naw, he's El Kabong" (Q.D.McG 's alter ego,
Long
Ranger mask, black hat, cape and a guitar). They (my patrolman) used
the
shortened "Kabong" to identify me & the name stuck.
My use of the shotgun as a baton was the basis of the comment. El
Kabong
"kabongs" bad guys with a guitar. While I was a patrol Sgt on
Fontana PD
I broke the wooden stocks of two 12 ga shotguns by using the shotgun
more like a baton. First time a guy took a blindside swing at me
while I
was breaking up a bar fight. I stuck the barrel in the flight of his
fist. He struck it so hard he broke his hand and the stock hit him
in
the gut area. That broke stock #1. A coupla weeks later there was a
ten
on one gang fight at a wedding. The ring leader (who I knew) headed
for
the back door. I was able to stick the stock between the persons in
the
crowd at his eye level, he ran into it and "clothesline" himself.
You
know one second your running full tilt and the next your head makes
contact with an immovable object & your feet & butt are instantly
above
you head. So much for wooden stock #2.
I had a loooong talk with my Chief. It ended with my asking about
getting the city to buy one of the LAPD SWAT team riot stocks for
"tests" and mount it on my 12 ga. They had a solid rubber type that
is
stock looking but it had kind of a molded in "pistol grip" also. It
bends and rebounds without breaking. The Chief only asked that I not
charge the city for any more stocks. We found out that they only
came
with new Ithaca shotguns so the Chief/City bought a new complete
one.
Never broke another stock, also learned to used the other end which
was
a lot stronger.
No, I never did have to shoot anyone with 00 buck, I think it was
because the perp's believed I really would shoot them and maybe
mixed in
with a little of the Kabong legend.
They were right, I would have.
When I started building and posting on the lists with Tom and I used
kabong as a handle. From Bakersfield to OSH I'm remembered not as
John
H. "Jack" Starn but rather as "KABONG".
Spent 5 plus years helping in the building of retired USAF Maj. Tom
Gummo's HRII Rocket N561FS. Tom was an F-4 Wild Weasel with a name
and
body shape (his words) he was Gummibear.
Most So. Cal RV guys have call sign (handle) and somewhere about
10-11
years ago someone asked if I had a "call sign" and I told the story.
KABONG still sticks. Yes, as a matter of fact I do have videos of
all
the cartoons that features "El Kabong" . KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:ding@tbscc.com"lynn dingfelder
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: KABONG ?
John,
From the Zenith list, what does KABONG mean?
Lynn
corry, PA
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
--
8/31/2006
--
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 07:20:03 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
Subject: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots
I've noticed that my sweat is causing white spots in the metal
surface
that cannot be removed with lacquer thinner after the sweat have
been
left for a while. In some cases these white spots have develop into
some
type of white corrosion (filiform) that I have removed with
scoth-brite.
Is this common? Should I be concerned?
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
In Southwestern Louisiana it is not just common, it is normal. No
need
for concern there..... major need for an airconditioner. I am
ordering
mine today.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
sweaty 601XL / fuselage
Do Not Archive
Do Not sweat on the expensive aluminum
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:17:48 AM PST US
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
You guys recommending a hardwood instead of softwood for flanging
dies just
don't understand wood. "Hardwood" designates a wood that is from a
decidous
tree. "Softwood" referrs to a wood that come from a coniferous
tree. It has
very little to do with the strength of the wood. For instance,
Aspen (hardwood)
is very soft and would be easily carved with a pocket knife.
Southern
Longleaf Pine (softwood) is exceptionally strong, hard, dense and
would be very
difficult to carve with any knife. In fact, the old Conestoga wagon
builders
preferred Southern Pine to Oak for their wagon frames. You will find
only
softwoods listed in any table of properties of wood for structural
uses. (FACTS)
(OPINION) In the case of flanging dies, the strength of the wood has
some
bearing, but workability, texture and durability are more important.
Personally,
I think that the "artificial" wood products made for outdoor deck
construction
would beat any kind of "natural" wood for flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 08:39:43 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots
Women often fail to appreciate the finer qualities that attach to
nerdiness. Let her run off with a bad boy and see how long that
lasts.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN STARN
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion like
spots
Just remember that it's your friends that kid you.
A: Because they can. and
B: Because they care.
They wouldn't spend the time or energy ribbing you if they didn't.
KABONG Do Not Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinbonds
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: HELP! My sweat is causing corrosion
like
spots
No offense guys, but my wife says, "it's funny that you are such
a
nerd, that even your nerd friends make fun of you". Thanks guys.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 08:41:06 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
<dredmoody@cox.net>
DUH!!! At a Russian plywood plant..... wasn't that obvious?
Ed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
<mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> I also used wooden flanging dies similar to your's.
> The person who made them available to me made them out
> of "Russian plywood". He also made all forming blocs
> using that material. It is a very good plywood, but I
> have no idea where we can find this.
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:41:11 AM PST US
From: "Andrew Ackland" <andrewack@clara.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
You are right, the softest hardwood is BALSAWOOD! How long would a
flanging
die made from that hardwood last?
Andy Ackland in the UK
601HD, tail done, working on wings.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: 03 September 2006 16:16
Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
"Softwood" referrs to a wood that come from a coniferous tree. It
has
very little to do with the strength of the wood
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 08:51:09 AM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding up
just fine.
Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood products
made
for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural" wood
for
flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 08:53:35 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Don't feel bad. At one time or another, all men spend some time
thinking
about pressure-treated pine. It's just a phase that you are going
through. In the end, you will come to the realization that if
pressure
treated wood requires the use of specially coated screws so that
your
fence or deck does not fall apart in a couple of years, then it
probably
isn't a good material to use to squeeze aircraft aluminum into
shape.
There now, take a deep breath.... feel better?
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: J2j3h4@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm thinking of using pressure-treated pine. If you have ever
worked
with this, you know that it is very hard.
Jim Hasper
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 09:01:44 AM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Mark-
You don't want to know what KABONG means in Bob+Tom parlance.
Then
again, maybe you do!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
45%HDS
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Zodie Rocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Now I understand, and remember the alter Ego of Quick Draw had a
name.
Thank-You I was trying to think of a meaning for each letter like
=93ASAP=94 or SNAFU.
I didn=92t relate it to a nick name like cdngoose
cdngoose
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
STARN
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 2:57 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
I've had the KABONG handle since the early 1960's so I'm not part
of
any of these Johnny Come Lately's. I've had the handle before most
if
not all of them were born.
I found out the other day that one of my now retired "rookies" was
having a birthday, so having not seen him for more than 20 years I
sent
him a birthday card. I signed it only KABONG. It did have a return
address but no name. Mailed it on Tuesday, 6:59am Thursday I got a
call
from "Buzz", he knew who sent it & called 411.
The handle is "KABONG" (all caps) not El Kabong of Hanna-Barber
cartoon fame.
Do Not Archive. KABONG HRII N561FS (GBA & GWB)
Have been asked that before, here's a "short" response.
While a Patrol Sgt. on Fontana PD (early 60's) I went to a City
masquerade party in all black western gear, complete with guns.
Someone
ask if I were the infamous gunfighter "Quicks Draw McGraw". One of
my
patrolman chimed in "Naw, he's El Kabong" (Q.D.McG 's alter ego,
Long
Ranger mask, black hat, cape and a guitar). They (my patrolman) used
the
shortened "Kabong" to identify me & the name stuck.
My use of the shotgun as a baton was the basis of the comment. El
Kabong "kabongs" bad guys with a guitar. While I was a patrol Sgt on
Fontana PD I broke the wooden stocks of two 12 ga shotguns by using
the
shotgun more like a baton. First time a guy took a blindside swing
at me
while I was breaking up a bar fight. I stuck the barrel in the
flight of
his fist. He struck it so hard he broke his hand and the stock hit
him
in the gut area. That broke stock #1. A coupla weeks later there was
a
ten on one gang fight at a wedding. The ring leader (who I knew)
headed
for the back door. I was able to stick the stock between the persons
in
the crowd at his eye level, he ran into it and "clothesline"
himself.
You know one second your running full tilt and the next your head
makes
contact with an immovable object & your feet & butt are instantly
above
you head. So much for wooden stock #2.
I had a loooong talk with my Chief. It ended with my asking about
getting the city to buy one of the LAPD SWAT team riot stocks for
"tests" and mount it on my 12 ga. They had a solid rubber type that
is
stock looking but it had kind of a molded in "pistol grip" also. It
bends and rebounds without breaking. The Chief only asked that I not
charge the city for any more stocks. We found out that they only
came
with new Ithaca shotguns so the Chief/City bought a new complete
one.
Never broke another stock, also learned to used the other end which
was
a lot stronger.
No, I never did have to shoot anyone with 00 buck, I think it was
because the perp's believed I really would shoot them and maybe
mixed in
with a little of the Kabong legend.
They were right, I would have.
When I started building and posting on the lists with Tom and I
used
kabong as a handle. From Bakersfield to OSH I'm remembered not as
John
H. "Jack" Starn but rather as "KABONG".
Spent 5 plus years helping in the building of retired USAF Maj.
Tom
Gummo's HRII Rocket N561FS. Tom was an F-4 Wild Weasel with a name
and
body shape (his words) he was Gummibear.
Most So. Cal RV guys have call sign (handle) and somewhere about
10-11
years ago someone asked if I had a "call sign" and I told the story.
KABONG still sticks. Yes, as a matter of fact I do have videos of
all
the cartoons that features "El Kabong" . KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: lynn dingfelder
To: jhstarn@verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: KABONG ?
John,
From the Zenith list, what does KABONG mean?
Lynn
corry, PA
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> -
NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI
-
--> - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List
Admin.
-->
--
8/31/2006
--
9/1/2006
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 09:02:42 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: When the rivet hole gets too big
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
<dredmoody@cox.net>
Use the same size rivet WITH JB Weld freshly placed in the hole.
That way
the final appearance is uniform, the strength is adequate and
everyone is
happy. As the JB Weld starts to "gel" (watch your timing carefully)
a clean
putty knife damp (not dripping wet) with denatured alcohol will
allow you to
smooth any exposed epoxy material. 12 hours later, a little careful
400 grit
sand paper and you're groovin'.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 1:29 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: When the rivet hole gets too big
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger"
<larrywinger@gmail.com>
>
> When doing side two of my trailing edge rudder skin, one of my
last holes
> "walked" on me. It was the end rivet on rear rib #3, and it
became oblong
> in a big hurry. Ouch.
>
> Since it is in a non-structural area, I'm looking for a good way
to
> recover. BTW, I'm planning to paint the plane, so I'll have
opportunity
> down the road to fill and shape if that is required/makes sense.
>
> One lister has already suggested a larger rivet (A5) and JB Weld
if there
> is still a void. What would you suggest?
>
> --------
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> 601XL #6493 from scratch
> Rudder skin clecoed and ready to prime/rivet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59157#59157
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 09:04:25 AM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Bellach
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine is very soft compared to true hardwoods like oak, walnut, and
hickory, and you shouldn't need the poison of the PT. I can't see
using
fragile soft wood like pine or birch unless you are going to whittle
it
by hand with a pocket knife. Modern power tools don't care if they
are
cutting hard or soft wood, and the hard wood would be more durable.
'Course I'm in the hardwoods country of the Ozarks where these woods
are
plentiful. I'll soon be burning a truck load of hardwood scraps to
keep
warm, free from a local mill, and most would be ideal chunks to cut
dies
from. There is one advantage to plywood - the cross grain would
prevent
cracking with the grain. I'd use ply before PT.
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 09:19:50 AM PST US
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite, but
can't
tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone know
what he
prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds>
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward
Moody II
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 09:27:06 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Hard woods
Members,
I am not any where near as knowledgeable about the various
kinds of
wood available to builders to make rib dies, or anything else but I
have
been making all kinds of things out of wood for about 60 years and
In my
opinion based on experience nothing can beat oak. If you make it
out of
oak it will still be serviceable when all on this list are cooling
their
heels in pilot heaven. As one of you said, there are man made
composite
materials like super hard plastics that can be cut, shaped, etc with
wood working tools but I have no idea what their life span would be.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 09:30:51 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Ed,
If I understand correctly, shortly after I fill the hole with JBW I
place the rivet
and pull. Does the sudden action of the rivet pull run the risk of
deforming
the JBW and displacing a gob of it which might fall into the bowels
of my
rudder? If not, I'll likely go this route.
Another option I had considered was to JB Weld it before I debur the
rudder skin.
That way I can fill the void of the hole (with some kind of
temporary backing),
allow it to dry (using your putty knife/denatured alcohol approach),
then
hit it with the 400 grit sandpaper to reproduce a smooth outer
surface that
I can re-drill (the right way this time!).
What do you think?
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL #6493 from scratch
Rudder skin clecoed and ready to prime/rivet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59223#59223
________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 09:36:00 AM PST US
From: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
I built mine from plywood scraps too, Gary.
They worked fine. Used one set of plywood flanging dies to
scratch-build
the whole airplane, and they're still in good shape... except the
ones I
trimmed too much to get into tight places.
I tried using a single bolt to draw the plywood dies together to
form
the flanges, but found that I had better/easier results when I
squoze
the dies together with some big ol' "C" clamps.
Rick Pitcher
all flanged up and flying :)
"squoze"???
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding up
just
fine. Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood
products
made for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural"
wood
for flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/1/2006
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 09:41:45 AM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
John and all-
Accept my greatest respect for the "Up close and personal" way
you
got your e-mail "Handle". Zenith builders are a pretty remarkable
crew.
The shop I work at is on final for the Erie, Pa. airport and
Friday
I noticed a slew of Blackhawks filing in (Probably to refuel) Around
the
lunch table, someone said "He (The perp) just robbed a sporting
goods
store and has over 40 guns. Talk about dangerous!"
My observation was "Having the best deer rifle doesn't mean JS
when
you're facing chain guns."
I know I've asked it before, but never got a definitive answer.
EAA
said you couldn't do it from a sport pilot perspective.
HDS builders are also allowed to build a set of HD wings. I'm
not
talking sport pilot- can you legally cross register experimental and
fly
with either set of wings? I know a number of HDS builders have
considered it.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa.
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 10:30:50 AM PST US
From: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Swapping wings
Just catching up on the Zenith list emails this morning and saw a
post
from Bill Naumak asking about swapping the wings on the HD and HDS
Zodiacs. His question was added-on to a reply on another thread so
I'm
posing the question here under a new header.
I built the HD version but would like to try the clipped/tapered
HDS, so
I bought a set of plans and some ribs for the HDS outer wing panels
and
planned on building them when I'm finished with my current project.
I'll build the HDS wings and fly off some more flight test hours,
but I
don't want to leave the HDS wings on the plane permanantly. I
really
LIKE my big slow-n-easy HD wings too.
After I flight tested the new HDS wings, can I just swap the outter
wing
panels whenever I want with just a logbook entry? Or is it more
involved?
Thanks,
Rick Pitcher
CH601HD
http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday.html
________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
Time: 11:16:21 AM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG ?
Hi Bill,
I agree with you completely about the chain guns. Alas, the Sport
Pilot issue is a lot more fuzzy.
All the issues surrounding registration as an LSA don't play into
the
limits of Sport Pilots at all. The determination as to whether a
plane is acceptable for Sport Pilot use depends on the plane's
performance rather than its registration. If the plane currently
performs within LSA limits then it is acceptable for use by a Sport
Pilot. It is that simple.
Let me move into the realm of conjecture now rather than matters of
fact. I recently read the final accident report involving the death
of the Walton heir in an ultralight crash. It turns out it wasn't a
legal ultralight at all. It had two seats. I couldn't really make
a
lot of sense out of the cause for the crash, but it was clear the
aircraft was illegal to start with since it was a two seat
ultralight. It was complicated by the fact that it had had a hard
landing which caused considerable structural damage. The owner
decided to fix it himself rather than allowing the manufacturer to
do
the repairs - which they apparently begged and pleaded with him to
do. In the end they supplied the parts and the owner completely
blew
the repairs. He didn't install all the parts before flying, and
those parts he did install were not properly done. He made major
design changes and failed to actually fix all the problems created
in
the control system. HIs fatal crash seems to have been caused by
the
elevator controls seizing up and preventing him from controlling the
aircraft's pitch. It flew into the ground and got all squashed up
along with the pilot.
My conjecture is that the FAA and NTSB folks really hate the
situation created with ultralights and their two seat cousins. They
are going to great lengths to get the ultralight community and
particularly those members of that community flying two seat
aircraft
back into the fold of regulation, pilot licensing, and generally
accepted practice of aircraft construction, maintenance and
repair. To do this they have given up complete control over the
aircraft design (Part 23) along with medical certification for
pilots
so long as the operations are limited to two seat aircraft that are
not heavy enough to do a lot of damage when they hit something on
the
ground. I have seen and heard of examples of great leniency in
their
determinations related to Experimental LSA. In one case a newly
built KitFox was given a 5 hour phase I flight test period. In
another case, a conversion with a cockpit adjustable propeller was
allowed so long as a placard was installed saying "Do not adjust
propeller in flight".
The bottom line of my whole diatribe is that we spend a lot of time
and energy worrying about the nitty gritty details of the new
regulations while the FAA inspectors bend over backward to allow
airworthiness certificates for anything relatively close to the
limits. This probably won't last forever, but so long as they are
getting fools who fly unregistered airplanes that are improperly
maintained to change their ways I think the FAA folks will continue
to be extremely cooperative.
Sorry about the long post, but I have been wanting to vent that
thought for a while now.
do not archive
Paul
XL fuselage
> I know I've asked it before, but never got a definitive
answer.
> EAA said you couldn't do it from a sport pilot perspective.
> HDS builders are also allowed to build a set of HD wings. I'm
> not talking sport pilot- can you legally cross register
> experimental and fly with either set of wings? I know a number of
> HDS builders have considered it.
>
>Bill Naumuk
>
>HDS Fuselage
>
>Townville, Pa.
>
-
________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
Time: 11:35:42 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
Hay Rick,
There are all kinds of ways to press. Did you hear about the
guy
who used his car. He put the flanging die under one of the front
wheels
and jacked the car up and down with an air driven bumper jack. All
it
takes is a good imagination. And the will to stick with it until
you
are flying an airplane you built and there is nothing like it.
Bob Stone
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: R.P.
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
I built mine from plywood scraps too, Gary.
They worked fine. Used one set of plywood flanging dies to
scratch-build the whole airplane, and they're still in good shape...
except the ones I trimmed too much to get into tight places.
I tried using a single bolt to draw the plywood dies together to
form
the flanges, but found that I had better/easier results when I
squoze
the dies together with some big ol' "C" clamps.
Rick Pitcher
all flanged up and flying :)
"squoze"???
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding
up
just fine. Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood
products
made for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural"
wood
for flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 9/1/2006
________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
Time: 11:59:55 AM PST US
From: Daniel Dempsey <leinad@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Gary,
Nice work. There's been a lot of talk about using a better
material. Well here's
one more. Consider using masonite or MDF. I made my set of dies
from a combination
of 3/4" thick fiberboard and 1/4" masonite. These materials
provide
a few advantages. I did all my flanging with these and they showed
no ware
and tear. It's hard and there is no grain. Best of all, it's
cheap compared
to plywood. I bought a 4x8 sheet of the 3/4 fiberboard for under
10 dollars.
I made all my form blocks and dies from that sheet, with exception
of the
form for the firewall that I had already made from plywood.
I looked into these materials when someone on this list suggested
using the plastic
wood now available for deck materials. I like the idea, but I found
that
these were very expensive.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 7:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my
center section
and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have been
known to stare
at the ceiling in the middle of the night, visualizing how I could
build
flanging dies out of wood.
Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and
in an obvious
effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the babies of
machinists,
I finally made, and used (successfully), flanging dies out of
plywood!
I hope the attachments are within the abilities of all to
download, and, since
this is my first attempt at attaching an image, I am currently
sitting uncomfortably
in my asbestos underwear.
Wood is really what I am most comfortable with. Switching from a
Pietenpol to
a 601 was a last minute decision after completing the WW Corvair
Conversion.
Any of you wood-chucks out there, like me, who wish a more detailed
account can
e-mail me directly. (any body skinned their 601 fuselage with
plywood?....just
kidding.)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
Time: 12:12:55 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Self-Etching primer FYI
From: "John" <johndread@wildblue.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <johndread@wildblue.net>
Hi Dave:
I looked at the Dupli color material but it did not
appear to
be suitable for aluminum. The self etch primer sold by NAPA
mentioned in an earlier listing is. 985 made by Sherwin
Williams also works well.
do not archive.
Regards, John
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay"
> <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
> The self-etching primer I have been buying from my local auto
parts store
> is
> actually manufactured by Dupli-Color. Out of curiosity I called
and asked
> their tech support a few questions. My main concern was related to
> topcoating. The tech rep said this is not needed for internal
> applications.
> It would be needed if the primer was applied to external surfaces
as it
> contains no UV inhibitors. Just thought I'd pass this along.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> 601XL Scratch Builder
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get real-time traffic reports with Windows Live Local Search
>
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=42.336065~-109.392273&style
=r&lvl=4&scene=3712634&trfc=1
>
>
Regards, John Read
________________________________ Message 26
____________________________________
Time: 01:05:48 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Self-Etching primer FYI
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
Hey John,
This particular primer says "Ideal for Aluminum" right on the front
of the can.
The tech support person also said it was fine for my inteneded
purpose. It really
seems to adhere very well. Possibly, we're talking about different
products.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59251#59251
________________________________ Message 27
____________________________________
Time: 01:22:59 PM PST US
From: J2j3h4@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm not planning to leave the wood in contact with the aluminum for
very
long. I figure that the short contact time will save me from having
to use an
acid metal prep. :)
Jim
In a message dated 9/3/2006 10:54:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
dredmoody@cox.net writes:
Don't feel bad. At one time or another, all men spend some time
thinking
about pressure-treated pine. It's just a phase that you are going
through. In
the end, you will come to the realization that if pressure treated
wood
requires the use of specially coated screws so that your fence or
deck does not
fall
apart in a couple of years, then it probably isn't a good material
to use to
squeeze aircraft aluminum into shape. There now, take a deep
breath.... feel
better?
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: _J2j3h4@aol.com_ (mailto:J2j3h4@aol.com)
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm thinking of using pressure-treated pine. If you have ever
worked with
this, you know that it is very hard.
Jim Hasper
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________ Message 28
____________________________________
Time: 02:24:03 PM PST US
From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping wings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
<larry@macsmachine.com>
Rick,
I believe you'd only need to have a POH that indicated performance
specs
and maintenance for both types of wing or perhaps a separate POH
that went
with the wing set you were using at the time. Registration should
be
the same. Shouldn't be more complex than flying with or without
wheel
pants in
my opinion.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
R.P. wrote:
> Just catching up on the Zenith list emails this morning and saw a
post
> from Bill Naumak asking about swapping the wings on the HD and HDS
> Zodiacs. His question was added-on to a reply on another thread so
I'm
> posing the question here under a new header.
>
> I built the HD version but would like to try the clipped/tapered
HDS,
> so I bought a set of plans and some ribs for the HDS outer wing
panels
> and planned on building them when I'm finished with my current
project.
> I'll build the HDS wings and fly off some more flight test hours,
but
> I don't want to leave the HDS wings on the plane permanantly. I
> really LIKE my big slow-n-easy HD wings too.
> After I flight tested the new HDS wings, can I just swap the
> outter wing panels whenever I want with just a logbook entry? Or
is it
> more involved?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Pitcher
> CH601HD
> http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday.html
>
>*
>
>*
>
________________________________ Message 29
____________________________________
Time: 02:52:53 PM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
<dredmoody@cox.net>
I've only built my first airplane, assisted on two others and am in
the
middle of my own second plane so be warned my advice is based on
only that
experience which is far from vast. With that disclaimer out of the
way, I
wouldn't allow the JB Weld to set, then perfect it, then redrill and
set the
rivet. I'd be afraid that the epoxy would, (A) have only the edge of
the
hole to bond to, (B) would be only as about thin as the aluminum
sheet
itself, and (C) would brake off when the rivet was squeezed (our
Avex rivets
expand to fill slightly irreguar holes). I'm not 100% positive but
that's
why I would do the JB Weld and the rivet in the same time frame.
Don't gob
it on but if some does get into the bowels of the rudder, I don't
think the
rudder bowel gods would be terribly overcome with wrath. The rivet
will most
definitely displace the epoxy material.... some inside and some
outside. The
excess on the outside I would conservatively remove (a little bead
of the
stuff around the set rivet head wouldn't be a bad thing). The excess
on the
inside would be the part I would count on to keep it in place and
stable.
Remember like using the Black Death on an RV tank, if you have a
cleco in
that hole clean in before the epoxy sets (alcohol work well).
Don't worry about this repair too much. If this is your greatest
concession
to perfect aircraft construction, you are one blessed pilgrim,
honestly.
Ed
Do Not Archive
Do Not get JB Weld in your bowels either
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: When the rivet hole gets too big
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger"
<larrywinger@gmail.com>
>
> Ed,
>
> If I understand correctly, shortly after I fill the hole with JBW
I place
> the rivet and pull. Does the sudden action of the rivet pull run
the risk
> of deforming the JBW and displacing a gob of it which might fall
into the
> bowels of my rudder? If not, I'll likely go this route.
>
> Another option I had considered was to JB Weld it before I debur
the
> rudder skin. That way I can fill the void of the hole (with some
kind of
> temporary backing), allow it to dry (using your putty
knife/denatured
> alcohol approach), then hit it with the 400 grit sandpaper to
reproduce a
> smooth outer surface that I can re-drill (the right way this
time!).
>
> What do you think?
________________________________ Message 30
____________________________________
Time: 03:32:31 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
No need to apologize, Kevin. We had it coming.but if it could be
determined
that those were Russian Plywood trees, we might have a clue where
Bigfoot
lives!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive.
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kevinbonds
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite, but
can't
tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone know
what he
prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds>
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward
Moody II
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
________________________________ Message 31
____________________________________
Time: 04:05:14 PM PST US
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
As described below, I have always understoond that Balsa is
"technically" a hardwood!
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
You guys recommending a hardwood instead of softwood for flanging
dies
just don't understand wood. "Hardwood" designates a wood that is
from a
decidous tree. "Softwood" referrs to a wood that come from a
coniferous
tree.
________________________________ Message 32
____________________________________
Time: 04:18:20 PM PST US
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New GPS in my 601XL
Ed, I went and bought the 2000C and now I am overwhelmed with the
difference
between it and my old G 195. I still can't get it to do what I think
I want it
to do yet, but I'm wearing it down. Sure works well in bright sun
light. Best
regards, Bill
________________________________ Message 33
____________________________________
Time: 04:28:12 PM PST US
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
This is very "old Hat" for nearly everyone on the list, but I
couldn't
resist the opening, especially now that pics can be attached. Note
the
dies are not made of plywood!
This system worked great. I still can't emphasize enough, before
flanging, sand the inside of the hole until you can run your finger
around it and feel that it is perfectly smooth. Anything less and
the
flange will probably crack. I was in such a big hurry to try my
dies
that I failed to do this and wound up with two cracks in a nose rib
flange. Had to make another nose rib because of this, another
lesson.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, do not archive
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
Hay Rick,
There are all kinds of ways to press. Did you hear about the
guy
who used his car. He put the flanging die under one of the front
wheels
and jacked the car up and down with an air driven bumper jack. All
it
takes is a good imagination. And the will to stick with it until
you
are flying an airplane you built and there is nothing like it.
Bob Stone
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________ Message 34
____________________________________
Time: 05:19:23 PM PST US
From: "j. davis" <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KABONG DRIVING ME FRIGGEN NUTS !!!!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> -->
> Mark-
> I have no idea if this is relevant, but I've heard KABONG used
by
> Chick Magee, a radio personality on the rather racy program "The
Bob and
> Tom Show" I listen to on my commute to work. If I'm right, send
the
> prize money in small bills, or a complete set of HH DVDs.
>
> do not archive
> Bill Naumuk
> 45%HDS
> Townville, Pa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Zodie Rocket <mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 02, 2006 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Zenith-List: KABONG DRIVING ME FRIGGEN NUTS !!!!
>
> I cant take it any longer !! What the Hell does KABONG stand
for???
>
> **
>
> *
>
>
> *
'KABONG' has also been the signature of John Starn on the RV
list since the mid-nineties. FWIW...
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs.
building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. | (computer science) |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin | jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| c/o Brandywine Aviation | voice: 519.289.1527 |
| 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON | http://www.cleco.ca |
| N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 | 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
To most people the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and
annoys the pig.
________________________________ Message 35
____________________________________
Time: 05:21:45 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing swapping
All-
Two things.
1. I have a selfish personal interest in being able to swap
wings.
The HD wings allegedly provide the short field capability I'd need
to
use my neighbor's pasture to fly to a local airport, where I'd leave
the
plane during flying season. Once at the airport, I'd swap for the
HDS
wings and cruise. Rather than have to build a special trailer for
the
whole plane, I could run the extra set of wings back and forth in
the
back of Ma's truck with no hassle. Can anyone with FAA connections
follow up on this? There's a lot of conjecture and rationalization
flying around but no definitive answer.
2. The ability to use pictures attached to a post is a really
powerful tool, if we don't abuse the priviledge. When you're posting
a
method of doing something, why not format your post into a "Mini
builder's manual?" Much more effective than trying to explain 3
dimensional concepts using the written word alone. Keep a camera
close
by and shoot at 300K resolution. Once they've been compressed to
JPEG, a
2M limit allows a LOT of pictures. If you don't have JPEG
compression
software, download Apple's Quicktime free on the net.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
________________________________ Message 36
____________________________________
Time: 05:30:56 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: White stuff
All-
Just searched the archives but couldn't find the answer. I know
the
fix was posted not too long ago.
What do you use to clean the gunk that accumulates on aluminum
sheet
after it sits for a while? I think it was lacquer thinner.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
________________________________ Message 37
____________________________________
Time: 06:00:52 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
You might try blasting with glass beads instead. Aluminium reacts
with so
many things it can be hard to work with. When working with
Aluminium the
Al-oxide is preferred... But it is easy to see how it won't like
the other
harder metals. Sounds like the thing to do was to use ultrasonic in
the
first place.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Bill Cardell
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 1:17 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell"
> <Bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> Sorry, "near" is an exaggeration. The particular examples I'm
> painfully
> aware of are from a cylinder head porter using aluminum oxide to
bead
> blast intake runners and ports before applying a thermal coating.
What
> happens is the alu embeds in the aluminum parts and time
> releases as the
> parts heat cycle. Once it's in the intake stream and into the oil,
it
> eats all the hard parts. Cylinder walls, crank journals, pins,
valve
> stems, etc.
> On one of the engines I was involved with, the pins had 2 thou of
wear
> after 125 miles. Car had to come back on a flatbed after 125 miles
> because it was pumping so much oil it fouled the plugs.
> According to GM, Scotchbrite wheels will accomplish the same
damage if
> used to clean aluminum engine surfaces. The only way to get the
stuff
> out of the pores of the aluminum is to jet clean and then
ultrasonic
> cleaning.
>
>
> TurboDog's Dad
> Bill Cardell
> www.flyinmiata.com
> 1-800-FLY-MX5S
> 970-242-3800
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert
> Schoenberger
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 8:42 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger
> --> <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
>
> Bill . . . in what way does the aluminum oxide near an engine
destroy
> it? Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive
>
> Bill Cardell wrote:
> > And whatever you do, don't get scotch-brite or any form of
aluminum
> > oxide near an engine. No joke, it only takes a small amount
> to destroy
>
> > an engine. Don't ask how I know...
> > Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> > www.flyinmiata.com <http://www.flyinmiata.com/> 1-800-FLY-MX5S
tech
> > 970-242-3800
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *kevinbonds
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 01, 2006 7:30 PM
> > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* RE: Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > You are going to have a hard time with this one, here on
> the list. The
>
> > joke around here is that, all you have to do to ruffle some
> feathers
> > is mention "green scotch-brite" pads. The short of it is,
> every time
> > someone asks this question it leads to a flood of posts that do
> > nothing but confuse everyone. The only wise advice I can
> give you is
> > to be sure that you know what abrasive is in your pad (or
> sandpaper)
> > AC 43.13 says no Silicon Carbide; no iron oxide; for corrosive
> > reasons. Use only Aluminum Oxide or Garnet as an abrasive
mineral.
> > Also, I have found the 3M website and packaging to be
notoriously
> > lacking in this sort of information about their products. I
> have had
> > to call Customer Service on occasion and wait a while for
> them to hunt
>
> > the info down for me. I get a blank stare from auto paint
> shops when I
>
> > ask them about mineral content. Just know that this is not
easily
> > answered.
> >
> > I'm convinced that, if we ever find Bigfoot, he will be holding
a
> > green scotch-brite pad.
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> >
> > Nashville TN
> >
> > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> >
> > Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> >
> > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> > <http://home.comcast.net/%7Ekevinbonds>
> >
> > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *Hudsonmusic1@aol.com
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 01, 2006 4:22 PM
> > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* Zenith-List: Scotchbrite pad Question.
> >
> > Are the green scotchbrite pads you buy at wal-mart the same as
the
> > ones you buy from the aircraft supply store? Thanks Jeff
> >
> > * *
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 38
____________________________________
Time: 06:06:57 PM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
He ain't dumb - he uses his GPS to locate those synthetic trees that
are
strong and stable for his dies, and only scotchbrites the surfaces
that
don't contact the AL.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinbonds
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
I'm looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite,
but
can't tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone
know
what he prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward
Moody II
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.
Ed Moody II
________________________________ Message 39
____________________________________
Time: 06:23:02 PM PST US
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
He's not in Louisiana.... he's got too much fur for our heat and
besides, Cajuns would have turned him into jambalaya long ago.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
No need to apologize, Kevin. We had it coming.but if it could be
determined that those were Russian Plywood trees, we might have a
clue
where Bigfoot lives!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive.
________________________________ Message 40
____________________________________
Time: 07:21:20 PM PST US
From: ihab.awad@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
On 9/3/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
> Mostly, I thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create
the
> male and female bevels.
Hm ... didn't see the pictures of *those*. I'm curious.... -- Ihab
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
________________________________ Message 41
____________________________________
Time: 07:37:07 PM PST US
From: Michael Parsons <gyro_cfi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: performance at cruise
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Parsons
<gyro_cfi@yahoo.com>
Hi,
Does anyone have performance figures for 601xl at
altitude with Franklin and/or Corvair Engine. Data
wanted: TAS @ Den. Alt.; Fuel consumption at same;
Empty weight of acft; Also weight and balance figures
for acft. CG fore and aft limits and moment of fuel
tanks and pilot location.
Just want to make sure this is the acft for me and my
wife.
Thanks Mike
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 42
____________________________________
Time: 07:47:56 PM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach"
<601zv@ritternet.com>
Me too! Who cares if the wood is hard or soft. I too missed the
important
part - THE JIG!
Don not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
>
> On 9/3/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>> Mostly, I thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create
the
>> male and female bevels.
>
> Hm ... didn't see the pictures of *those*. I'm curious.... -- Ihab
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --
> Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 43
____________________________________
Time: 08:02:45 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
Sorry guys...call it...delayed gratification...
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Me too! Who cares if the wood is hard or soft. I too missed the
important
part - THE JIG!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
>
> On 9/3/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>> Mostly, I thought to show the simple 'jig' that I used to create
the
>> male and female bevels.
>
> Hm ... didn't see the pictures of *those*. I'm curious.... -- Ihab
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --
> Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 44
____________________________________
Time: 08:17:39 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies... plywood works OK
Rick,
I, too, tried the C clamps on the first 3 holes. In the end I found
the
ball peen clamp the quickest (kinda like the "200 lb Press).
Gary
I built mine from plywood scraps too, Gary.
They worked fine. Used one set of plywood flanging dies to
scratch-build the
whole airplane, and they're still in good shape... except the ones I
trimmed
too much to get into tight places.
I tried using a single bolt to draw the plywood dies together to
form the
flanges, but found that I had better/easier results when I squoze
the dies
together with some big ol' "C" clamps.
Rick Pitcher
all flanged up and flying :)
"squoze"???
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies
And, yet, I built mine out of plywood scraps. They are holding up
just fine.
Not opinion - FACT.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
(OPINION) .. Personally, I think that the "artificial" wood products
made
for outdoor deck construction would beat any kind of "natural" wood
for
flanging dies.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2630J
_____
Message 20
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I want to expound a bit on my comment about finding "Metal conditioners" at
auto paint supply houses. Alumiprep 33 is a phosphoric acid based chemical
cleaner. Other companies make this same sort of thing (PPG and others). You
are likely to find these locally as long as you live near a city. They may
call them aluminum "conditioners" or "brighteners". I happen to live in a
fairly industrial area just around the corner from a whole slew of these
auto paint shops. So I'll buy my next batch from them.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. But have found that auto paint supply houses
carry similar stuff.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DICK WILBERS
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Kevin: Where did you buy Alumiprep 33?
Regards..............................................................Dick
601 HDS in Florida
Message 21
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I think the problem of doing some acrobatics in any airplane not designed to handle
them, is very dangerours, This is my point:
The pilot has to be very good in acro... so he will not stress the aircraft.
Given this, this mild acro will not be fun for him in this airplane,
IF the pilot is not good (not proficient in acro) can make a mistake in certain
manouver and over stress the plane and could brake it... This could be fatal...
Would you take the chance? Like racing the family car in the streets...
Going though some turbulence, is fun enough for me :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Phyrcooler <phyrcooler@hotmail.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler"
I am also considering the 601XL as I compare various kit options, and thus also
interested in this topic. I have no interest in "serious" acro - but an occasional
roll/loop would be fun...
Not being able to would NOT be a deal breaker for me - as it isn't that critical.
Conversely - if it could, it would be another entry in the positive column
for this aircraft.
Please post any response you get direct from Zenith. If anyone else has info -
please chime in!
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59398#59398
---------------------------------
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: White corrosion |
Kevin
NAPA carries a Martin-Senour product called "Twin Etch". Van's recommends it
on their RVs. I used it on my RV and am now using it on my XL.
Carroll Jernigan
Lenoir City, TN
do not archive
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