Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:20 AM - Re: Wing swapping (Noel Loveys)
2. 05:13 AM - 701 Jury Struts? (Zed Smith)
3. 05:22 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 (alex trent)
4. 05:53 AM - Attachments test (Zed Smith)
5. 05:57 AM - Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics (John Bolding)
6. 06:01 AM - ZenithSTOL 801 Fuselage/Tail kits for sale ()
7. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 (Bryan Martin)
8. 06:18 AM - Throttle Cable for Rotax (Tommy Walker)
9. 06:40 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (Robert L. Stone)
10. 07:09 AM - Re: Leading Edge Dents (Kenny Aron)
11. 07:18 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (Jon Croke)
12. 08:37 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
13. 10:56 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (webmaster@upac.ca)
14. 11:08 AM - Re: Attachments test (JOHN STARN)
15. 11:12 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (Gary Gower)
16. 12:35 PM - throttle (Hugh Roberts)
17. 01:26 PM - more "throttle" (Zed Smith)
18. 01:37 PM - Oops! throttle correction (Zed Smith)
19. 01:52 PM - Re: Porsche Engine in a 701 (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc)
20. 02:01 PM - Re: throttle (Robert L. Stone)
21. 03:43 PM - Re: throttle (Dave)
22. 03:49 PM - Re: 601 XL (Phyrcooler)
23. 04:14 PM - Re: White corrosion (Bill Naumuk)
24. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL (Bryan Martin)
25. 04:42 PM - Re: Leading Edge Dents (Dave Ruddiman)
26. 05:07 PM - Re: White corrosion (kevinbonds)
27. 07:12 PM - Another 601 trainer (Bill Cardell)
28. 09:57 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL (Paul Mulwitz)
29. 10:05 PM - Re: Hard woods (Ron Lendon)
Message 1
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I don't know if you may be able to have the wings as part of the
aircraft
configuration much the same as changing from wheels to floats. Once the
configuration with each pair of wings is proved then all you should have
to
do is make the appropriate entries in the airframe log. Don't forget to
generate a new W&B for each set of wings. To get this to work will no
doubt
require some assistance from your local FAA office.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing swapping
The wing swap is considered a Major Change and as such you will be
required
to fly something akin to the 40 hours needed for the first test flights.
Talk to your local FSDO to get their opinion. Also don't forget the log
book
entries required stating what you did and that the aircraft is airworthy
and
able to return to service. A mishap without this type of entry and the
insurance is null because your not in compliance with the FARs and as
such
not airworthy. That applies to any maintenance actually.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
Message 2
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| Subject: | 701 Jury Struts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Gentlemen,
At what point in the evolution of the 701 did the additional jury strut member
join the club?
My plans, the online photos, and the factory demo all have three pieces of .500
tubing per side; a "vertical" on each of the front struts, a "vertical" on each
of the rear struts, and a "horizontal" between the struts.
The more recent plans include a "diagonal" from the front strut to the rear spar,
making a total of four pieces per side.
Is this now the preferred method, or just the modification for weapons hard points?
Thanks, and best regards to Bigfoot.
Zed/701/R912/do not archive/green scotchbrite/white stuff/cortec/rattle cans/flanging
dies/Semper Fi!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
I read that attachments are now allowed but I don't see any attachments
in my digest mail. What is the problem?
alex
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Attachments test |
Alex,
Small photo attached.
See if you get it.
Regards,
Zed/do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
OK guys , I know you should have only one subject per post but I prefer
lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in a hurry.
Cleaning aluminum:
I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly
not my intent.
Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several
others that I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some
solvent( MEK, acetone and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the
final prep for painting.
My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the
middle of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of
failure. Normally the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead
role in these goat ropings but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he
was automatically the cause, kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA
Chapter holds elections, you WILL be an office holder if you miss.
Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean
surface, waterborne materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my
limited experience anyway).
Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning.
Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and
a rag and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet
with solvent. You succeed in getting them to look a little better but
you HAVEN'T taken all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in
smaller concentrations. Follow up with a clean rag and more solvent
reduces the concentrations but .... you get the picture.
Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your
hands)using water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys
called it "suspended" 'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to
impress the customer) and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the
surface) to remove it ,you generally get a squeaky clean surface first
rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary.
What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you
are trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the
molecular level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at
a boat dock and noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few
molecules thick. You CAN'T be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash
and rinse.
Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before
birth tell me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping
down a car with a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times.
What impressed ME was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to
one of these meetings and SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint
film where it had peeled off. Takes a lot of work to build an airplane,
prep it properly.
Aerobatics:
First airplane I built was an RV3 about a hundred yrs ago (12th RV to
fly) and at that time the test stage included strapping on a parachute
and subjecting the airframe to LIMIT loads. In the case of the "3" it
was 6 G's. Not comfortable and not fun really, but it was part of the
package so you did it. I always thought it was unnecessary as I could
do a roll with a 1/2 G and a loop using a little less than 2.
Then came the time I fell out of the top of a loop that I was trying to
make too big and pulled almost 6 G in the botched recovery, Oh THAT'S
why you do that "un-necessary" testing!! Nuff said.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 6
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| Subject: | ZenithSTOL 801 Fuselage/Tail kits for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dandrepont@charter.net>
I have a completed STOL 801 tailkit and an unassembled fuselage kit for sale. $5000.
Clecos, rivets, straps, ZnChromate, pneumatic drill and a nice 4x12ft table
on casters included. Located in south Louisiana.
337-948-7703 day work #
337-948-7188 evening
337-945-8548 cell
Dirk Andrepont
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I believe that attachments are stripped from the digest mail to keep
the size more manageable. You have to get the individual e-mails or
look at the website to view the attachments.
On Sep 5, 2006, at 8:22 AM, alex trent wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
>
>
> I read that attachments are now allowed but I don't see any
> attachments in my digest mail. What is the problem?
> alex
> do not archive
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Throttle Cable for Rotax |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Rotaxers,
I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a conventional throttle
with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle supplied with my kit.
I figured it would be easier to operate and keep the RPM at a cruise setting compared
to the T-Handle.
My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way, but so
far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS model with a
friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8 diameter. Surely there is
a device somewhere out there that will work.
Any ideas?
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
--------
Tommy Walker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59586#59586
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Tommy,
A picture or drawing of the part you want to connect and the place
where you want to connect it would help us all help you to figure it out. I
personally would install a verner throttle cable. This is the kind that you
can push in or out for general usage or turn to get fine adjustments like
when you are flying formation.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> Rotaxers,
>
> I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a
> conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle
> supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep
> the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle.
>
> My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way,
> but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS
> model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8
> diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
> Do Not Archive
>
> --------
> Tommy Walker
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59586#59586
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Dents |
Dave,
I'm also one of those lonely 801 builders, and just wrapped my r/w leading
edge last week. To bring the skin up snug to the nose ribs, I did two
things: 1. I cleco'd in place the slat pickups. This gave me "handles" to
keep the nose ribs aligned as I was wrapping the skin. 2. After initially
positioning the skin, (and noticing the same gap you have), I placed a 12ft
2x4 edgewise along the slat pickups, then repositioned the straps around it.
Doing this concentrated the pulling force of the straps directly onto the
area it was most needed. The 2x4 will cover the bottom-most hole, but if you
drill & cleco the other's, they will hold the skin in position while you
reposition the straps again.
I've got pictures of the process, but since I just did this I haven't
uploaded them to the site yet. Let me know if you want to see them & I'll
post them tonight.
Good luck
--
\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/
--Kenny A.
http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax |
This is from our friend from Iceland, Johan, who has finished his very nice
701... without his permission I include:
(sorry for small size picture... I am restricted to dialup out in these
woods that I live...! ) (not complaining, tho!)
>
> I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a
> conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle
> supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep
> the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle.
>
> My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way,
> but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS
> model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8
> diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
I used a vernier throttle in my 601. It works very well. One thing about a vernier
type throttle is that will make the second throttle useless because the vernier
mechanism locks the throttle cable up in such a way that it can only be
operated from the vernier. I couldn't see any way to make a second throttle function
with a vernier on the other side so I eliminated the entire throttle system
supplied with the kit and fabricated my own bracket to hook the vernier up
to just the pilot's side of the panel. In a pinch, the right seat co-pilot can
switch hands on the stick and reach across to operate the throttle. Since all
take-offs and landings will normally be flown from the left seat, this arrangement
presents no problem.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
>
> I personally would install a verner throttle cable. This is the kind that you
> can push in or out for general usage or turn to get fine adjustments like
> when you are flying formation.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
> >
> > Rotaxers,
> >
> > I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a
> > conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle
> > supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep
> > the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle.
> >
> > --------
> > Tommy Walker
> >
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: webmaster@upac.ca
Tommy, I converted mine to the ACS throttle as well. It was actually quite
easy. I made a part from aluminum stock on a lathe to adapt the wire to
the bell crank.
I'm not the originator of the idea however, Johann in Iceland is. Have a
look on his 701 website for pictures of the adaptor here:
http://www.gi.is/fis/zenithpanel.htm
Trevor Page
CH601HD
R912
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> Rotaxers,
>
> I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a
> conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle
> supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep
> the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle.
>
> My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way,
> but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS
> model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8
> diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
> Do Not Archive
>
> --------
> Tommy Walker
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59586#59586
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Attachments test |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
I got it......Where do I get it ? ? KABONG Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:52 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Attachments test
> Alex,
>
> Small photo attached.
>
> See if you get it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zed/do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax |
Great idea from Johan,
My comment, I will just add a little drop of Locktite to the bolt tread... Will
not hurt and will prevent loose from vibration.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote: This is from our friend from Iceland, Johan,
who has finished his very nice
701... without his permission I include:
(sorry for small size picture... I am restricted to dialup out in these
woods that I live...! ) (not complaining, tho!)
>
> I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a
> conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle
> supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep
> the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle.
>
> My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way,
> but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS
> model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8
> diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 16
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Didn't like cable throttle system,hard to tune carbs.
third 912 I have converted,no problem.
must build all new bell crank system.line up arms with carb levers.
put spring loaded friction on cross tube. Both throttles kept.
Hugh Roberts
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
I used the ACS A-770 vernier. Ordered it 42 inches long, in the color red. Took
forever to get it.
This one is threaded 10-32, so I used AN486-1032 fork. (Hidden in the Spruce catalog)
You can figure out the geometry, but the 770 has 3.5 inches of travel. This is
more than the 912 carb travel, so you gain some mechanical advantage. Works
a heck of a lot better than the slipping-block arrangement.
Regards,
Zed
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Oops! throttle correction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Actually the 770 is the choke.
The A-800 is the throttle. Otherwise, same particulars.
That the kind of misteak yew maak whin yew ar tryin' to wright a bid specificattioon
fer a microwavy sistim and talk on the fone and chek email and answer questions
frum everybidy which stik their head in the dooor.
Havva nice dae!
Zed
DO NOT ARCHIVE!!!
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Porsche Engine in a 701 |
Thanks Monty
Yes it is a Porsche 914 2.0L engine that I'm building into a 2.6L engine,
with fuel injection. I'm also going to add a 2.2 reduction drive so that I
can develop the true power(72" 3B prop) of the engine around 5200 rpm(take
off). This should give me about 115hp.
So far I have not been able to find anyone who has used the type 4 engine
only the type 1. I did contact the folks in Australia, but they are very
difficult to deal with - not very nice. On there web site they advertise
there redrive for sale for type 4 engines - but when you ask for pricing
they won't sell it to you, has to be sold with there engine - they get very
nasty when questioned about their faulty advertising.
There are quite a few web sites offering type 1 conversions along with
redrives - but only for the type 1. Mind you about 90% of the parts could
be used for the type 4.
Some of them are:
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/
http://members.socket.net/~ranchair/
http://www.greatplainsas.com/welcome.html
http://www.vw-engines.com/
http://www.revmasteraviation.com/
I did find one redrive supplier that can supply all the individual parts
needed along with construction drawing to build one. The only problem is
its designed for a Subaru but thats no big deal. Basically all that I
would have to have made is a crank hub and mount, which I have done
already.. and you can buy it i piece at a time. The company is very easy
to deal with, the web site is:
http://www.geocities.com/rfisubaru/rfi.html
Don Parham
RFI Power systems
P.O. Box 263
Indianola, Ok 74442
Phone: 918-823-4610
Fax: 918-823-4690
e-mail rfi@oklatel.net
PS: I have been in touch with the Smith's. They have a vice setup but it is
for the type 1 case. It's nice to hear that the type 1 will work in a 701.
I will be building on floats so I need all the grunt at the low end that I
can get... and that means installing a redrive. It also helps to dampen
any stresses on the crank, which can be a problem with the type 1.
Thanks again for your help
Ron Leclerc
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:23:46 -0500, Monty Graves wrote:
>--->-Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
>
>-Ron,
>
>-I don't know of anyone that has put a type IV engine in the CH701.
>- - There are a few Type I-III VW engines with Valley Eng redrives,
>-made by the Smiths at Culver Props.
>
>-One is my friend B.J. Schwaller, -he has a 1915cc VW and redrive on
>-his 701. - The plane flys weekly now out of Eldon MO. -Pictures of
>-his plane are in Zenith's Builders secton site......
>
>-www.culverprops.com
>
>-The Smiths build and sell VW engines, - redrives for the VW, -and
>-engine mounts for the 701, -and of course really nice wood props.
>
>-I was just over to their shop on Wednesday of this week. - They had
>-just finished another engine mount for the VW engine and Diel Case
>-for a 701 in New Zealand and it was being shipped that day. - -Also
>-word on an IDAHO 701 builder that was just starting to test fly his
>-701 with -the Smiths, -engine mount and their 2275cc VW engine and
>-redrive -Culver Prop package...........So far he is very happy.
>
>-In the next few weeks, -hopefully still in Sept. - -another
>-K.C.Missouri 701 builder is also going to install their complete,
>-mount, -engine, redrive, Culver Prop combo in hsi airplane......
>
>-Monty Graves
>
>
>-At 09:01 PM 9/1/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>>--->-Zenith-List message posted by: Ron D Leclerc <infow@mts.net>
>>
>>
>>-Has anyone out there had the opportunity to install a Porsche
>>-Type 4 2.6L engine in a 701? -I need some info on an engine mount
>>-and building a redrive... -perhaps someone has built one.
>>
>>-Ron Leclerc
>>-Winnipeg MB Canada
>
>
>-Features Navigator to browse
>-and much much more:
>- - - - - -- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>--->-http://forums.matronics.com
>-generous support!
>->-http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">Thanks Monty</SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">Yes it is a Porsche  914  2.0L
engine that I'm building into a 2.6L  engine, with fuel injection.
 I'm also going to add a 2.2 reduction drive so that I can develop the
true power(72" 3B prop)  of the engine around 5200 rpm(take off).
 This should give me about 115hp.</SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">So far I have not been able to find
anyone who has used the type 4 engine only the type 1.  I did contact
the folks in Australia, but they are very difficult to deal with - not very
nice.  On there web site they advertise there redrive for sale for
type 4 engines - but when you ask for pricing they won't sell it to you,
has to be sold with there engine - they get very nasty when questioned
about their faulty advertising.</SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">There are quite a few web sites offering
type 1 conversions along with redrives - but only for the type 1.
 Mind you about 90% of the parts could be used for the type
4.</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">Some of them are:</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><a
href="http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/">http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com
/</a></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><a
href="http://members.socket.net/~ranchair/">http://members.socket.net/~ranc
hair/</a> </SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><a
href="http://www.greatplainsas.com/welcome.html">http://www.greatplainsas.c
om/welcome.html</a></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><a
href="http://www.vw-engines.com/">http://www.vw-engines.com/</a></SPAN></di
v>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><a
href="http://www.revmasteraviation.com/">http://www.revmasteraviation.com/<
/a></SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">I did find one redrive supplier
 that can supply all the individual parts needed along with
construction drawing to build one. The only problem is its designed for a
Subaru but thats no big deal.  Basically all that I would have to have
made is a crank hub and mount, which I have done already.. and you can buy
it i piece at a time.  The company is very easy to deal with, the web
site is:  </SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><a
href="http://www.geocities.com/rfisubaru/rfi.html">http://www.geocities.com
/rfisubaru/rfi.html</a></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-family:'Arial';font-size:11pt;"><B>Don Parham<br
/>RFI Power systems<br />P.O. Box 263 <br />Indianola, Ok 74442 <br /><br
/>Phone: 918-823-4610 <br />Fax: 918-823-4690<br /><br />e-mail
rfi@oklatel.net</B></SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-family:'Arial';font-size:11pt;">PS: I have been in
touch with the Smith's. They have a vice setup but it is for the type 1
case.  It's nice to hear that the type 1 will work in a 701.  I
will be building on floats so I need all the grunt at the low end that I
can get... and that means installing a redrive.  It also helps to
dampen any stresses on the crank, which can be a problem with the type
1.</SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-family:'Arial';font-size:11pt;"><B>Thanks again for
your help</B></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-family:'Arial';font-size:11pt;">Ron
Leclerc</SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:23:46 -0500, Monty
Graves wrote:<br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>--->-Zenith-List message posted
by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-Ron,</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-I don't know of anyone that has put
a type IV engine in the CH701.</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>- - There are a few
Type I-III VW engines with Valley Eng redrives,</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-made by the Smiths at Culver
Props.</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-One is my friend B.J. Schwaller,
-he has a 1915cc VW and redrive on</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-his 701. - The plane
flys weekly now out of Eldon MO. -Pictures of</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-his plane are in Zenith's Builders
secton site......</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-www.culverprops.com</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-The Smiths build and sell VW
engines, - redrives for the VW, -and</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-engine mounts for the 701, -and of
course really nice wood props.</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-I was just over to their shop on
Wednesday of this week. - They had</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-just finished
another engine mount for the VW engine and Diel Case</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-for a 701 in New Zealand and it was
being shipped that day. - -Also</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-word on an IDAHO 701
builder that was just starting to test fly his</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-701 with -the Smiths, -engine mount
and their 2275cc VW engine and</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-redrive -Culver Prop
package...........So far he is very happy.</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-In the next few weeks, -hopefully
still in Sept. - -another</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-K.C.Missouri 701
builder is also going to install their complete,</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-mount, -engine, redrive, Culver
Prop combo in hsi airplane......</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-Monty Graves</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-At 09:01 PM 9/1/2006 -0500, you
wrote:</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>>--->-Zenith-List message
posted by: Ron D Leclerc <infow@mts.net></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>>-Has anyone out there had the
opportunity to install a Porsche</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>>-Type 4 2.6L
engine in a 701? -I need some info on an engine mount</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>>-and building a redrive...
-perhaps someone has built one.</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>>-Ron Leclerc</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>>-Winnipeg MB
Canada</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>- - - - -- The
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-Features Navigator to
browse</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-Archive Search
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-and much much more:</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
com/Navigator?Zenith-List</a> _-</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
/></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-===================================
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>- - - - - -- NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>--->-<a
PAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>- - - - - - -- NEW
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
-->-<a
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>- - - - - - - List
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;">>-generous support!</SPAN><SPAN
style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
/></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;color:maroon;">>->-<a
ibution</a></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /></SPAN><SPAN
===========================</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;"><br /><br
/></SPAN></div>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 20
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Hugh,
Why don't you get in touch with the fellow who has the problem
posted and offer to make up all that he will need to convert for a fee
of course. My advise is free but if I make a part for someone, I charge
a small fee.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Roberts
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: throttle
Didn't like cable throttle system,hard to tune carbs.
third 912 I have converted,no problem.
must build all new bell crank system.line up arms with carb levers.
put spring loaded friction on cross tube. Both throttles kept.
Hugh Roberts
Message 21
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Hugh,
How do you counter the thrust inputs on the engine? I would think with this
setup engine thrust equates to carbs out of sync. It doesn't take much of a
movement on the linkage arm to pull different vacuum loads form one carb to
the other.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Roberts
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: throttle
Didn't like cable throttle system,hard to tune carbs.
third 912 I have converted,no problem.
must build all new bell crank system.line up arms with carb levers.
put spring loaded friction on cross tube. Both throttles kept.
Hugh Roberts
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> I think the problem of doing some acrobatics in any airplane not designed to
handle them, is very dangerours...
>
>
>
Agreed
However - I think that both of us are trying to clarify what, if any acro maneuvers
the engineers feel are OK with this craft. While I don't believe that an
experimental aircraft is rated as "utility" or "Acrobatic" - the designers should
be able to detail the design parameters and/or limits.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59750#59750
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: White corrosion |
Kevin-
That's what I wanted to hear. Don't care where you live- there's a
NAPA within spitting distance. Of course, if it's not in stock........
Here's my big question. It means a lot to me because depending on
the answer, I have to shift from "Build" to "Scrub down" mode before
going any farther.
Once you get some corrosion, do you have to strip interior surfaces
clean like you would for a painted surface BEFORE applying your Zinc
Chromate or other protectant, or can you just apply the protectant? I
don't know- maybe skins stop corroding when you separate so moisture
doesn't collect between them and you don't have to do anything. I don't
think you have a choice but to thoroughly clean the painted surfaces.
All input, especially from builders who found themselves in the same
situation, is appreciated.
do not
archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Trainnut01@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Kevin
NAPA carries a Martin-Senour product called "Twin Etch". Van's
recommends it on their RVs.
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The 601 series aircraft are designed for a flight load factor of 4 g
(design load factor of 6 g). Aerobatic aircraft are designed with a
flight load factor of 6 g or greater (design load factor of 9 g or
greater). Based on this, the Zodiacs are not suitable for much in the
way of aerobatic flight. But, as long as the planned maneuver has
little chance of causing more than a 4 g load on the aircraft, even
if you screw it up, you should be OK.
On Sep 5, 2006, at 6:48 PM, Phyrcooler wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler"
> <phyrcooler@hotmail.com>
>
>
> ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>> I think the problem of doing some acrobatics in any airplane not
>> designed to handle them, is very dangerours...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Agreed
>
> However - I think that both of us are trying to clarify what, if
> any acro maneuvers the engineers feel are OK with this craft.
> While I don't believe that an experimental aircraft is rated as
> "utility" or "Acrobatic" - the designers should be able to detail
> the design parameters and/or limits.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Dents |
Hi Kenny,
I'd like to see the pictures of how you did the leading edge wrap. From
your post and the others that I've seen, it sounds like I am doing it
the same way. I didn't pull the skin in quite as tight as I should have.
I also adjusted how the wing sits on the table so I can pull more to the
back instead of straight down or to the front. That alone seems to help.
Also, using more boards on the leading edge seems to help. I think I am
going to shim the areas by the slat brackets a little bit and move on.
Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments and suggestions. This isn't
my first project and I have to quit getting so fixated on things when
they don't go completely as planned.
Dave in Salem
801
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny Aron
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leading Edge Dents
Dave,
I'm also one of those lonely 801 builders, and just wrapped my r/w
leading edge last week. To bring the skin up snug to the nose ribs, I
did two things: 1. I cleco'd in place the slat pickups. This gave me
"handles" to keep the nose ribs aligned as I was wrapping the skin. 2.
After initially positioning the skin, (and noticing the same gap you
have), I placed a 12ft 2x4 edgewise along the slat pickups, then
repositioned the straps around it. Doing this concentrated the pulling
force of the straps directly onto the area it was most needed. The 2x4
will cover the bottom-most hole, but if you drill & cleco the other's,
they will hold the skin in position while you reposition the straps
again.
I've got pictures of the process, but since I just did this I haven't
uploaded them to the site yet. Let me know if you want to see them &
I'll post them tonight.
Good luck
--
\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/
--Kenny A.
http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/
Message 26
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This is a good question. I am no expert so I can give you no expert opinion.
But my thinking is that, while I plan to clean everything as well as zinc
oxide, I think self-etching Zinc oxide would offer good control because of
its galvanic properties. I would not prefer a wash primer like Cortec for a
surface that was showing some signs of oxidation. I copied the following
from Wikipedia:
"Zinc coatings prevent oxidation of the protected metal by forming a
barrier, and by acting as a sacrificial
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_anode> anode
if this barrier is damaged. Zinc oxide
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_oxide> is a fine white dust that (in
contrast to iron oxide) does not cause a breakdown of the substrate
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plating> 's surface integrity as it is formed.
Indeed the zinc oxide, if undisturbed, can act as a barrier to further
oxidation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidation> , in a way similar to the
protection <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passivation> afforded to
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium> aluminium and stainless
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel> steels by their oxide
layers."
Also it is my understanding that this galvanic protection can extend beyond
the treatment area by 1/8 inch (?) or so.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Kevin-
That's what I wanted to hear. Don't care where you live- there's a NAPA
within spitting distance. Of course, if it's not in stock........
Here's my big question. It means a lot to me because depending on the
answer, I have to shift from "Build" to "Scrub down" mode before going any
farther.
Once you get some corrosion, do you have to strip interior surfaces
clean like you would for a painted surface BEFORE applying your Zinc
Chromate or other protectant, or can you just apply the protectant? I don't
know- maybe skins stop corroding when you separate so moisture doesn't
collect between them and you don't have to do anything. I don't think you
have a choice but to thoroughly clean the painted surfaces.
All input, especially from builders who found themselves in the same
situation, is appreciated.
do not
archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Trainnut01@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: White corrosion
Kevin
NAPA carries a Martin-Senour product called "Twin Etch". Van's recommends it
on their RVs.
bsp; available via -========================nbsp; Email List nbsp;
generous bsp; ================
Message 27
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| Subject: | Another 601 trainer |
I don't know anything about this guy yet, just sent him an email after
seeing an ad at a local airport, but if anyone is looking for training
in a 601in Colorado, check this out. www.gjsportpilot.com He's in
Delta, CO.
No affiliation, yada, yada.
TurboDog's Dad
Bill Cardell
www.flyinmiata.com
1-800-FLY-MX5S
970-242-3800
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
All these opinions about aerobatic flight in a Zodiac don't consider
the requirement for a parachute when doing aerobatics. The FARs are
quite clear on this point. Even if you wear a parachute, it will
only serve as a seat cushion since you can't get the forward hinged
canopy open in flight to get out of the plane if the wings come off.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 04:24 PM 9/5/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
>The 601 series aircraft are designed for a flight load factor of 4 g
>(design load factor of 6 g). Aerobatic aircraft are designed with a
>flight load factor of 6 g or greater (design load factor of 9 g or
>greater). Based on this, the Zodiacs are not suitable for much in the
>way of aerobatic flight. But, as long as the planned maneuver has
>little chance of causing more than a 4 g load on the aircraft, even
>if you screw it up, you should be OK.
>
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
I asked that question about a year ago and found that the consensus was MDF. I
used the premium MDF and made my wing rib forms just about 10 months ago then
sealed them with poly urethane. Here we are now taking them off the self and
cutting the reliefs (crimps) in them to begin forming. They are real flat and
true and I only need em to make one right and one left hand part. I think they
will be just fine.
I was careful with the nose rib form and made 9 rights and 9 lefts on them and
they held up OK. I did make a small aluminum block so smooth out the very forward
radius.
The nice thing about the MDF is it works real quick and is fairly cheap. Oak might
take more time but will last forever, are you going into production?
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59866#59866
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