---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/05/06: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:20 AM - Re: Wing swapping (Noel Loveys) 2. 05:13 AM - 701 Jury Struts? (Zed Smith) 3. 05:22 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 (alex trent) 4. 05:53 AM - Attachments test (Zed Smith) 5. 05:57 AM - Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics (John Bolding) 6. 06:01 AM - ZenithSTOL 801 Fuselage/Tail kits for sale () 7. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 (Bryan Martin) 8. 06:18 AM - Throttle Cable for Rotax (Tommy Walker) 9. 06:40 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (Robert L. Stone) 10. 07:09 AM - Re: Leading Edge Dents (Kenny Aron) 11. 07:18 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (Jon Croke) 12. 08:37 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) 13. 10:56 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (webmaster@upac.ca) 14. 11:08 AM - Re: Attachments test (JOHN STARN) 15. 11:12 AM - Re: Throttle Cable for Rotax (Gary Gower) 16. 12:35 PM - throttle (Hugh Roberts) 17. 01:26 PM - more "throttle" (Zed Smith) 18. 01:37 PM - Oops! throttle correction (Zed Smith) 19. 01:52 PM - Re: Porsche Engine in a 701 (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc) 20. 02:01 PM - Re: throttle (Robert L. Stone) 21. 03:43 PM - Re: throttle (Dave) 22. 03:49 PM - Re: 601 XL (Phyrcooler) 23. 04:14 PM - Re: White corrosion (Bill Naumuk) 24. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL (Bryan Martin) 25. 04:42 PM - Re: Leading Edge Dents (Dave Ruddiman) 26. 05:07 PM - Re: White corrosion (kevinbonds) 27. 07:12 PM - Another 601 trainer (Bill Cardell) 28. 09:57 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL (Paul Mulwitz) 29. 10:05 PM - Re: Hard woods (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:04 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing swapping I don't know if you may be able to have the wings as part of the aircraft configuration much the same as changing from wheels to floats. Once the configuration with each pair of wings is proved then all you should have to do is make the appropriate entries in the airframe log. Don't forget to generate a new W&B for each set of wings. To get this to work will no doubt require some assistance from your local FAA office. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:47 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing swapping The wing swap is considered a Major Change and as such you will be required to fly something akin to the 40 hours needed for the first test flights. Talk to your local FSDO to get their opinion. Also don't forget the log book entries required stating what you did and that the aircraft is airworthy and able to return to service. A mishap without this type of entry and the insurance is null because your not in compliance with the FARs and as such not airworthy. That applies to any maintenance actually. Dave 601-HD 912ULS ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:59 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Jury Struts? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Gentlemen, At what point in the evolution of the 701 did the additional jury strut member join the club? My plans, the online photos, and the factory demo all have three pieces of .500 tubing per side; a "vertical" on each of the front struts, a "vertical" on each of the rear struts, and a "horizontal" between the struts. The more recent plans include a "diagonal" from the front strut to the rear spar, making a total of four pieces per side. Is this now the preferred method, or just the modification for weapons hard points? Thanks, and best regards to Bigfoot. Zed/701/R912/do not archive/green scotchbrite/white stuff/cortec/rattle cans/flanging dies/Semper Fi! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:48 AM PST US From: alex trent Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent I read that attachments are now allowed but I don't see any attachments in my digest mail. What is the problem? alex do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:15 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Attachments test Alex, Small photo attached. See if you get it. Regards, Zed/do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:08 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics OK guys , I know you should have only one subject per post but I prefer lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in a hurry. Cleaning aluminum: I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly not my intent. Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several others that I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some solvent( MEK, acetone and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the final prep for painting. My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the middle of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of failure. Normally the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead role in these goat ropings but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he was automatically the cause, kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA Chapter holds elections, you WILL be an office holder if you miss. Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean surface, waterborne materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my limited experience anyway). Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning. Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and a rag and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet with solvent. You succeed in getting them to look a little better but you HAVEN'T taken all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in smaller concentrations. Follow up with a clean rag and more solvent reduces the concentrations but .... you get the picture. Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your hands)using water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys called it "suspended" 'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to impress the customer) and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the surface) to remove it ,you generally get a squeaky clean surface first rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary. What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you are trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the molecular level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at a boat dock and noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few molecules thick. You CAN'T be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash and rinse. Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before birth tell me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping down a car with a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times. What impressed ME was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to one of these meetings and SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint film where it had peeled off. Takes a lot of work to build an airplane, prep it properly. Aerobatics: First airplane I built was an RV3 about a hundred yrs ago (12th RV to fly) and at that time the test stage included strapping on a parachute and subjecting the airframe to LIMIT loads. In the case of the "3" it was 6 G's. Not comfortable and not fun really, but it was part of the package so you did it. I always thought it was unnecessary as I could do a roll with a 1/2 G and a loop using a little less than 2. Then came the time I fell out of the top of a loop that I was trying to make too big and pulled almost 6 G in the botched recovery, Oh THAT'S why you do that "un-necessary" testing!! Nuff said. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:13 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: ZenithSTOL 801 Fuselage/Tail kits for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: I have a completed STOL 801 tailkit and an unassembled fuselage kit for sale. $5000. Clecos, rivets, straps, ZnChromate, pneumatic drill and a nice 4x12ft table on casters included. Located in south Louisiana. 337-948-7703 day work # 337-948-7188 evening 337-945-8548 cell Dirk Andrepont ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:13 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 09/04/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I believe that attachments are stripped from the digest mail to keep the size more manageable. You have to get the individual e-mails or look at the website to view the attachments. On Sep 5, 2006, at 8:22 AM, alex trent wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > > > I read that attachments are now allowed but I don't see any > attachments in my digest mail. What is the problem? > alex > do not archive > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax From: "Tommy Walker" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" Rotaxers, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle. My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way, but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8 diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work. Any ideas? Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59586#59586 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Tommy, A picture or drawing of the part you want to connect and the place where you want to connect it would help us all help you to figure it out. I personally would install a verner throttle cable. This is the kind that you can push in or out for general usage or turn to get fine adjustments like when you are flying formation. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Walker" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:15 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > > Rotaxers, > > I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a > conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle > supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep > the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle. > > My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way, > but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS > model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8 > diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work. > > Any ideas? > > Tommy Walker in Alabama > Do Not Archive > > -------- > Tommy Walker > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59586#59586 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:47 AM PST US From: "Kenny Aron" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leading Edge Dents Dave, I'm also one of those lonely 801 builders, and just wrapped my r/w leading edge last week. To bring the skin up snug to the nose ribs, I did two things: 1. I cleco'd in place the slat pickups. This gave me "handles" to keep the nose ribs aligned as I was wrapping the skin. 2. After initially positioning the skin, (and noticing the same gap you have), I placed a 12ft 2x4 edgewise along the slat pickups, then repositioned the straps around it. Doing this concentrated the pulling force of the straps directly onto the area it was most needed. The 2x4 will cover the bottom-most hole, but if you drill & cleco the other's, they will hold the skin in position while you reposition the straps again. I've got pictures of the process, but since I just did this I haven't uploaded them to the site yet. Let me know if you want to see them & I'll post them tonight. Good luck -- \|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/ --Kenny A. http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:26 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax This is from our friend from Iceland, Johan, who has finished his very nice 701... without his permission I include: (sorry for small size picture... I am restricted to dialup out in these woods that I live...! ) (not complaining, tho!) > > I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a > conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle > supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep > the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle. > > My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way, > but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS > model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8 > diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work. > > Any ideas? > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:51 AM PST US From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net I used a vernier throttle in my 601. It works very well. One thing about a vernier type throttle is that will make the second throttle useless because the vernier mechanism locks the throttle cable up in such a way that it can only be operated from the vernier. I couldn't see any way to make a second throttle function with a vernier on the other side so I eliminated the entire throttle system supplied with the kit and fabricated my own bracket to hook the vernier up to just the pilot's side of the panel. In a pinch, the right seat co-pilot can switch hands on the stick and reach across to operate the throttle. Since all take-offs and landings will normally be flown from the left seat, this arrangement presents no problem. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Robert L. Stone" > > I personally would install a verner throttle cable. This is the kind that you > can push in or out for general usage or turn to get fine adjustments like > when you are flying formation. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tommy Walker" > > > > Rotaxers, > > > > I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a > > conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle > > supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep > > the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle. > > > > -------- > > Tommy Walker > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax From: webmaster@upac.ca --> Zenith-List message posted by: webmaster@upac.ca Tommy, I converted mine to the ACS throttle as well. It was actually quite easy. I made a part from aluminum stock on a lathe to adapt the wire to the bell crank. I'm not the originator of the idea however, Johann in Iceland is. Have a look on his 701 website for pictures of the adaptor here: http://www.gi.is/fis/zenithpanel.htm Trevor Page CH601HD R912 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > > Rotaxers, > > I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a > conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle > supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep > the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle. > > My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way, > but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS > model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8 > diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work. > > Any ideas? > > Tommy Walker in Alabama > Do Not Archive > > -------- > Tommy Walker > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59586#59586 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:37 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Attachments test --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" I got it......Where do I get it ? ? KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zed Smith" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:52 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Attachments test > Alex, > > Small photo attached. > > See if you get it. > > Regards, > > Zed/do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:57 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Throttle Cable for Rotax Great idea from Johan, My comment, I will just add a little drop of Locktite to the bolt tread... Will not hurt and will prevent loose from vibration. Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. Jon Croke wrote: This is from our friend from Iceland, Johan, who has finished his very nice 701... without his permission I include: (sorry for small size picture... I am restricted to dialup out in these woods that I live...! ) (not complaining, tho!) > > I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to substitute a > conventional throttle with a throttle cable for the T-Handle throttle > supplied with my kit. I figured it would be easier to operate and keep > the RPM at a cruise setting compared to the T-Handle. > > My problem is how to connect it to the Bellcrank. There has to be a way, > but so far I've not figured it out yet. The throttle cable is an ACS > model with a friction lock. The cable is about between 1/16- 1/8 > diameter. Surely there is a device somewhere out there that will work. > > Any ideas? > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:42 PM PST US From: "Hugh Roberts" Subject: Zenith-List: throttle Didn't like cable throttle system,hard to tune carbs. third 912 I have converted,no problem. must build all new bell crank system.line up arms with carb levers. put spring loaded friction on cross tube. Both throttles kept. Hugh Roberts ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:39 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: more "throttle" --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith I used the ACS A-770 vernier. Ordered it 42 inches long, in the color red. Took forever to get it. This one is threaded 10-32, so I used AN486-1032 fork. (Hidden in the Spruce catalog) You can figure out the geometry, but the 770 has 3.5 inches of travel. This is more than the 912 carb travel, so you gain some mechanical advantage. Works a heck of a lot better than the slipping-block arrangement. Regards, Zed do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:19 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Oops! throttle correction --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Actually the 770 is the choke. The A-800 is the throttle. Otherwise, same particulars. That the kind of misteak yew maak whin yew ar tryin' to wright a bid specificattioon fer a microwavy sistim and talk on the fone and chek email and answer questions frum everybidy which stik their head in the dooor. Havva nice dae! Zed DO NOT ARCHIVE!!! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:20 PM PST US From: "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Porsche Engine in a 701 Thanks Monty Yes it is a Porsche 914 2.0L engine that I'm building into a 2.6L engine, with fuel injection. I'm also going to add a 2.2 reduction drive so that I can develop the true power(72" 3B prop) of the engine around 5200 rpm(take off). This should give me about 115hp. So far I have not been able to find anyone who has used the type 4 engine only the type 1. I did contact the folks in Australia, but they are very difficult to deal with - not very nice. On there web site they advertise there redrive for sale for type 4 engines - but when you ask for pricing they won't sell it to you, has to be sold with there engine - they get very nasty when questioned about their faulty advertising. There are quite a few web sites offering type 1 conversions along with redrives - but only for the type 1. Mind you about 90% of the parts could be used for the type 4. Some of them are: http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/ http://members.socket.net/~ranchair/ http://www.greatplainsas.com/welcome.html http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.revmasteraviation.com/ I did find one redrive supplier that can supply all the individual parts needed along with construction drawing to build one. The only problem is its designed for a Subaru but thats no big deal. Basically all that I would have to have made is a crank hub and mount, which I have done already.. and you can buy it i piece at a time. The company is very easy to deal with, the web site is: http://www.geocities.com/rfisubaru/rfi.html Don Parham RFI Power systems P.O. Box 263 Indianola, Ok 74442 Phone: 918-823-4610 Fax: 918-823-4690 e-mail rfi@oklatel.net PS: I have been in touch with the Smith's. They have a vice setup but it is for the type 1 case. It's nice to hear that the type 1 will work in a 701. I will be building on floats so I need all the grunt at the low end that I can get... and that means installing a redrive. It also helps to dampen any stresses on the crank, which can be a problem with the type 1. Thanks again for your help Ron Leclerc On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:23:46 -0500, Monty Graves wrote: >--->-Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > > >-Ron, > >-I don't know of anyone that has put a type IV engine in the CH701. >- - There are a few Type I-III VW engines with Valley Eng redrives, >-made by the Smiths at Culver Props. > >-One is my friend B.J. Schwaller, -he has a 1915cc VW and redrive on >-his 701. - The plane flys weekly now out of Eldon MO. -Pictures of >-his plane are in Zenith's Builders secton site...... > >-www.culverprops.com > >-The Smiths build and sell VW engines, - redrives for the VW, -and >-engine mounts for the 701, -and of course really nice wood props. > >-I was just over to their shop on Wednesday of this week. - They had >-just finished another engine mount for the VW engine and Diel Case >-for a 701 in New Zealand and it was being shipped that day. - -Also >-word on an IDAHO 701 builder that was just starting to test fly his >-701 with -the Smiths, -engine mount and their 2275cc VW engine and >-redrive -Culver Prop package...........So far he is very happy. > >-In the next few weeks, -hopefully still in Sept. - -another >-K.C.Missouri 701 builder is also going to install their complete, >-mount, -engine, redrive, Culver Prop combo in hsi airplane...... > >-Monty Graves > > >-At 09:01 PM 9/1/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>--->-Zenith-List message posted by: Ron D Leclerc >> >> >>-Has anyone out there had the opportunity to install a Porsche >>-Type 4 2.6L engine in a 701? -I need some info on an engine mount >>-and building a redrive... -perhaps someone has built one. >> >>-Ron Leclerc >>-Winnipeg MB Canada > > >-Features Navigator to browse >-and much much more: >- - - - - -- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >--->-http://forums.matronics.com >-generous support! >->-http://www.matronics.com/contribution
 
Thanks Monty
 
Yes it is a Porsche  914  2.0L engine that I'm building into a 2.6L  engine, with fuel injection.  I'm also going to add a 2.2 reduction drive so that I can develop the true power(72" 3B prop)  of the engine around 5200 rpm(take off).  This should give me about 115hp.
 
So far I have not been able to find anyone who has used the type 4 engine only the type 1.  I did contact the folks in Australia, but they are very difficult to deal with - not very nice.  On there web site they advertise there redrive for sale for type 4 engines - but when you ask for pricing they won't sell it to you, has to be sold with there engine - they get very nasty when questioned about their faulty advertising.
 
There are quite a few web sites offering type 1 conversions along with redrives - but only for the type 1.  Mind you about 90% of the parts could be used for the type 4.
Some of them are:
http://www.vw-engines.com/
 
I did find one redrive supplier  that can supply all the individual parts needed along with construction drawing to build one. The only problem is its designed for a Subaru but thats no big deal.  Basically all that I would have to have made is a crank hub and mount, which I have done already.. and you can buy it i piece at a time.  The company is very easy to deal with, the web site is:  
Don Parham
RFI Power systems
P.O. Box 263
Indianola, Ok 74442

Phone: 918-823-4610
Fax: 918-823-4690

e-mail rfi@oklatel.net
 
PS: I have been in touch with the Smith's. They have a vice setup but it is for the type 1 case.  It's nice to hear that the type 1 will work in a 701.  I will be building on floats so I need all the grunt at the low end that I can get... and that means installing a redrive.  It also helps to dampen any stresses on the crank, which can be a problem with the type 1.
 
Thanks again for your help
Ron Leclerc
 
 
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:23:46 -0500, Monty Graves wrote:
>--->-Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
>
>-Ron,
>
>-I don't know of anyone that has put a type IV engine in the CH701.
>- - There are a few Type I-III VW engines with Valley Eng redrives,
>-made by the Smiths at Culver Props.
>
>-One is my friend B.J. Schwaller, -he has a 1915cc VW and redrive on
>-his 701. - The plane flys weekly now out of Eldon MO. -Pictures of
>-his plane are in Zenith's Builders secton site......
>
>-www.culverprops.com
>
>-The Smiths build and sell VW engines, - redrives for the VW, -and
>-engine mounts for the 701, -and of course really nice wood props.
>
>-I was just over to their shop on Wednesday of this week. - They had
>-just finished another engine mount for the VW engine and Diel Case
>-for a 701 in New Zealand and it was being shipped that day. - -Also
>-word on an IDAHO 701 builder that was just starting to test fly his
>-701 with -the Smiths, -engine mount and their 2275cc VW engine and
>-redrive -Culver Prop package...........So far he is very happy.
>
>-In the next few weeks, -hopefully still in Sept. - -another
>-K.C.Missouri 701 builder is also going to install their complete,
>-mount, -engine, redrive, Culver Prop combo in hsi airplane......
>
>-Monty Graves
>
>
>-At 09:01 PM 9/1/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>>--->-Zenith-List message posted by: Ron D Leclerc <infow@mts.net>
>>
>>
>>-Has anyone out there had the opportunity to install a Porsche
>>-Type 4 2.6L engine in a 701? -I need some info on an engine mount
>>-and building a redrive... -perhaps someone has built one.
>>
>>-Ron Leclerc
>>-Winnipeg MB Canada
>
>
>- - - - -- The style="font-size:10pt;">
>-Features Navigator to browse
>-Archive Search style="font-size:10pt;">
>-and much much more:
 _-
>-=================================== />>- - - - - -- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

>--->-
>- - - - - - -- NEW style="font-size:10pt;">

>- - - - - - - List style="font-size:10pt;">
>-generous support!
>->-
________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:29 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: throttle Hugh, Why don't you get in touch with the fellow who has the problem posted and offer to make up all that he will need to convert for a fee of course. My advise is free but if I make a part for someone, I charge a small fee. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugh Roberts To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Zenith-List: throttle Didn't like cable throttle system,hard to tune carbs. third 912 I have converted,no problem. must build all new bell crank system.line up arms with carb levers. put spring loaded friction on cross tube. Both throttles kept. Hugh Roberts ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:18 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: throttle Hugh, How do you counter the thrust inputs on the engine? I would think with this setup engine thrust equates to carbs out of sync. It doesn't take much of a movement on the linkage arm to pull different vacuum loads form one carb to the other. ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugh Roberts To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Zenith-List: throttle Didn't like cable throttle system,hard to tune carbs. third 912 I have converted,no problem. must build all new bell crank system.line up arms with carb levers. put spring loaded friction on cross tube. Both throttles kept. Hugh Roberts ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:52 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL From: "Phyrcooler" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote: > I think the problem of doing some acrobatics in any airplane not designed to handle them, is very dangerours... > > > Agreed However - I think that both of us are trying to clarify what, if any acro maneuvers the engineers feel are OK with this craft. While I don't believe that an experimental aircraft is rated as "utility" or "Acrobatic" - the designers should be able to detail the design parameters and/or limits. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59750#59750 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:12 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: White corrosion Kevin- That's what I wanted to hear. Don't care where you live- there's a NAPA within spitting distance. Of course, if it's not in stock........ Here's my big question. It means a lot to me because depending on the answer, I have to shift from "Build" to "Scrub down" mode before going any farther. Once you get some corrosion, do you have to strip interior surfaces clean like you would for a painted surface BEFORE applying your Zinc Chromate or other protectant, or can you just apply the protectant? I don't know- maybe skins stop corroding when you separate so moisture doesn't collect between them and you don't have to do anything. I don't think you have a choice but to thoroughly clean the painted surfaces. All input, especially from builders who found themselves in the same situation, is appreciated. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:45 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: White corrosion Kevin NAPA carries a Martin-Senour product called "Twin Etch". Van's recommends it on their RVs. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:10 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin The 601 series aircraft are designed for a flight load factor of 4 g (design load factor of 6 g). Aerobatic aircraft are designed with a flight load factor of 6 g or greater (design load factor of 9 g or greater). Based on this, the Zodiacs are not suitable for much in the way of aerobatic flight. But, as long as the planned maneuver has little chance of causing more than a 4 g load on the aircraft, even if you screw it up, you should be OK. On Sep 5, 2006, at 6:48 PM, Phyrcooler wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phyrcooler" > > > > ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote: >> I think the problem of doing some acrobatics in any airplane not >> designed to handle them, is very dangerours... >> >> >> > > > Agreed > > However - I think that both of us are trying to clarify what, if > any acro maneuvers the engineers feel are OK with this craft. > While I don't believe that an experimental aircraft is rated as > "utility" or "Acrobatic" - the designers should be able to detail > the design parameters and/or limits. > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:48 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leading Edge Dents Hi Kenny, I'd like to see the pictures of how you did the leading edge wrap. From your post and the others that I've seen, it sounds like I am doing it the same way. I didn't pull the skin in quite as tight as I should have. I also adjusted how the wing sits on the table so I can pull more to the back instead of straight down or to the front. That alone seems to help. Also, using more boards on the leading edge seems to help. I think I am going to shim the areas by the slat brackets a little bit and move on. Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments and suggestions. This isn't my first project and I have to quit getting so fixated on things when they don't go completely as planned. Dave in Salem 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenny Aron To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leading Edge Dents Dave, I'm also one of those lonely 801 builders, and just wrapped my r/w leading edge last week. To bring the skin up snug to the nose ribs, I did two things: 1. I cleco'd in place the slat pickups. This gave me "handles" to keep the nose ribs aligned as I was wrapping the skin. 2. After initially positioning the skin, (and noticing the same gap you have), I placed a 12ft 2x4 edgewise along the slat pickups, then repositioned the straps around it. Doing this concentrated the pulling force of the straps directly onto the area it was most needed. The 2x4 will cover the bottom-most hole, but if you drill & cleco the other's, they will hold the skin in position while you reposition the straps again. I've got pictures of the process, but since I just did this I haven't uploaded them to the site yet. Let me know if you want to see them & I'll post them tonight. Good luck -- \|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/ --Kenny A. http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:53 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: White corrosion This is a good question. I am no expert so I can give you no expert opinion. But my thinking is that, while I plan to clean everything as well as zinc oxide, I think self-etching Zinc oxide would offer good control because of its galvanic properties. I would not prefer a wash primer like Cortec for a surface that was showing some signs of oxidation. I copied the following from Wikipedia: "Zinc coatings prevent oxidation of the protected metal by forming a barrier, and by acting as a sacrificial anode if this barrier is damaged. Zinc oxide is a fine white dust that (in contrast to iron oxide) does not cause a breakdown of the substrate 's surface integrity as it is formed. Indeed the zinc oxide, if undisturbed, can act as a barrier to further oxidation , in a way similar to the protection afforded to aluminium and stainless steels by their oxide layers." Also it is my understanding that this galvanic protection can extend beyond the treatment area by 1/8 inch (?) or so. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: White corrosion Kevin- That's what I wanted to hear. Don't care where you live- there's a NAPA within spitting distance. Of course, if it's not in stock........ Here's my big question. It means a lot to me because depending on the answer, I have to shift from "Build" to "Scrub down" mode before going any farther. Once you get some corrosion, do you have to strip interior surfaces clean like you would for a painted surface BEFORE applying your Zinc Chromate or other protectant, or can you just apply the protectant? I don't know- maybe skins stop corroding when you separate so moisture doesn't collect between them and you don't have to do anything. I don't think you have a choice but to thoroughly clean the painted surfaces. All input, especially from builders who found themselves in the same situation, is appreciated. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:45 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: White corrosion Kevin NAPA carries a Martin-Senour product called "Twin Etch". Van's recommends it on their RVs. bsp; available via -========================nbsp; Email List nbsp; generous bsp; ================ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Another 601 trainer From: "Bill Cardell" I don't know anything about this guy yet, just sent him an email after seeing an ad at a local airport, but if anyone is looking for training in a 601in Colorado, check this out. www.gjsportpilot.com He's in Delta, CO. No affiliation, yada, yada. TurboDog's Dad Bill Cardell www.flyinmiata.com 1-800-FLY-MX5S 970-242-3800 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:55 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz All these opinions about aerobatic flight in a Zodiac don't consider the requirement for a parachute when doing aerobatics. The FARs are quite clear on this point. Even if you wear a parachute, it will only serve as a seat cushion since you can't get the forward hinged canopy open in flight to get out of the plane if the wings come off. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 04:24 PM 9/5/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > >The 601 series aircraft are designed for a flight load factor of 4 g >(design load factor of 6 g). Aerobatic aircraft are designed with a >flight load factor of 6 g or greater (design load factor of 9 g or >greater). Based on this, the Zodiacs are not suitable for much in the >way of aerobatic flight. But, as long as the planned maneuver has >little chance of causing more than a 4 g load on the aircraft, even >if you screw it up, you should be OK. > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hard woods From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" I asked that question about a year ago and found that the consensus was MDF. I used the premium MDF and made my wing rib forms just about 10 months ago then sealed them with poly urethane. Here we are now taking them off the self and cutting the reliefs (crimps) in them to begin forming. They are real flat and true and I only need em to make one right and one left hand part. I think they will be just fine. I was careful with the nose rib form and made 9 rights and 9 lefts on them and they held up OK. I did make a small aluminum block so smooth out the very forward radius. The nice thing about the MDF is it works real quick and is fairly cheap. Oak might take more time but will last forever, are you going into production? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59866#59866