Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:11 AM - Re: Stripper (Edward Moody II)
2. 05:15 AM - tow bar tail dragger (alex trent)
3. 07:08 AM - Re: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport (R.P.)
4. 07:52 AM - Re: Scratch built Spars (TxDave)
5. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: Scratch built Spars (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
6. 09:38 AM - New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Steven Janicki)
7. 09:53 AM - Re: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport (Dave Austin)
8. 09:58 AM - CH 640 Controls (2thesky)
9. 10:01 AM - Rudder twitchy's (Grant Corriveau)
10. 10:12 AM - Zenair for sale (rwhall@telusplanet.net)
11. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Scratch built Spars (Robert Schoenberger)
12. 10:26 AM - Center Spar Completed (TxDave)
13. 10:29 AM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Jim Hoak)
14. 11:02 AM - Re: Center Spar Completed (Randy Bryant)
15. 11:04 AM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Mike Fothergill)
16. 11:37 AM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Trainnut01@aol.com)
17. 11:38 AM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Terry Turnquist)
18. 11:51 AM - Re: Center Spar Completed (Randy Bryant)
19. 11:53 AM - Re: CH 640 Controls (moorecomp)
20. 12:17 PM - Re: Zenair for sale (Stanley Challgren)
21. 12:17 PM - RE : Re: Center Spar Completed - photos URLs below (Carlos Sa)
22. 12:19 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Chuck Deiterich)
23. 12:23 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Randy Bryant)
24. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: Scratch built Spars (George Swinford)
25. 01:47 PM - Re: Zenair for sale (Dan Forney)
26. 01:47 PM - Re: Zenair for sale (Robert L. Stone)
27. 01:57 PM - Re: Center Spar Completed (Robert L. Stone)
28. 03:48 PM - Re: Polishing (Bill Naumuk)
29. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Bill Naumuk)
30. 04:07 PM - Re: Polishing (Gary Boothe)
31. 04:35 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Bill Naumuk)
32. 04:42 PM - Re: Polishing (Bill Naumuk)
33. 05:04 PM - Re: Center Spar Completed - solid riveter design (David Wright)
34. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (JOHN STARN)
35. 05:40 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Zodie Rocket)
36. 05:44 PM - Video Camera mount (R.P.)
37. 06:37 PM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Ron Lendon)
38. 06:40 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Bill Naumuk)
39. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Bill Naumuk)
40. 06:58 PM - Another Youtube video of Zodiac at Fox Field (KWJF) (R.P.)
41. 07:19 PM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
42. 07:44 PM - Re: Stripper (Fluff) (J2j3h4@aol.com)
43. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Humor - Erase now if you don't want a chuckle) (N5SL)
44. 08:06 PM - 701 sub kits (Rmtnview@aol.com)
45. 08:18 PM - Re: Polishing (Tim & Diane Shankland)
46. 09:14 PM - Strobe wires. (Dave Ruddiman)
47. 09:58 PM - Re: Strobe wires. (Paul Mulwitz)
48. 10:33 PM - Re: Strobe wires. (Dave Ruddiman)
49. 11:52 PM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Ron Lendon)
Message 1
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Yep, and the word is that they're TWINS!!! Cool, huh?
Ed
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: NYTerminat@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stripper
NAPA has strippers?
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | tow bar tail dragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
Does anyone have a sketch or photo of a towbar for a 601 taildragger?
alex
do not archive
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport
>Rick-
> Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was that
> >PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver.
>Bill Naumuk
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYX52rNWFXk
Yeah Bill, I really noticed that on this video.
I'm not sure if it's PIO or just the result of keeping the wings level in
the turbulent air that morning, probably a little of both. I'll be more more
consious of this now that I have seen what it looks like in the video.
After flying Quicksilvers for several years I have a tendency to use more
rudder than aileron to lift a low wing.
Rick Pitcher
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built Spars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
Hey Terry,
I was the guy making the inquiry about scratch building spars. Thanks for sharing
the photo. I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice
you have to offer would be appreciated.
Dave Clay
Temple, Texas
Ch601XL Scratch Builder
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60357#60357
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built Spars |
In a message dated 9/8/06 dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
> I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice you
> have to offer would be appreciated
Start deburring!
Message 6
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| Subject: | New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL |
Hello All,
I am new to this group and am planning to start building a CH601XL
before the end of this year.
With that said, I have been doing quite a bit of reading and made a
phone call to Zenith to better understand the differences between
the QB and Standard Kits.
After my conversation with Sebastian I am leaning towards the
Standard kit. My impression is that the standard kit will save me a
fair sum of money and still provide features such as pilot holes on
wing, fuselage and other surface skins. The difference in cost will
also help towards my engine, avionics, paint funds.
I also plan to start with the tail kit and build from components as
I understand improvements to the kit are planned and I would like to
take advantage of them if and when they are released.
I live in Northern California (Redwood City to be exact) and plan to
build in my garage in order to maximize my time availability. I have
built in the past but never completed an aircraft primarily due to
my desire to fly more than build. Fortunately I have most if not all
of the tools I need to build having purchased them along the way
durning my past building episodes.
Now that I am older (and hopefully wiser) I have settled on the
CH601XL and plan to take advantage being able to fly under LSA in
the future as my flying needs have become more about enjoying an
hour or two in the air vs. IFR, cross country flying, etc.
I am also leaning on the Jabiru 3300 engine and a budget glass
cockpit.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to
getting started and completing the CH601XL!
Regards,
Steven
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@can.rogers.com>
Re these videos..
How do I download these videos as a file and store on the PC?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
Hello all,
I was cruising the web looking at some of the ch640 stuff and noticed that the
control yoke on the 640 doesn't use bicycle chain on the portion under the panel.
I am curious how this works. The only ones I have ever seen (not that many)
have the chain. Someone care to explain how this works or maybe post a pic
of it? Just curious.
Thanks,
Nate in OK
do not archive
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60384#60384
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rudder twitchy's |
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in
the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my
aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably
there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some
day ha ha.! )
The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing
roll. But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust
changes. When I pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm
surprised to see how much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of
left pedal during full power ops (climb out), to a significant amount
of right pedal during glides/approaches. (NOTE* You may need to
reverse those left/right indications for your engine - mine rotates
counterclockwise as viewed from the cockpit ;-) ...
In summary, due to the short coupling of the airplane, definite
rudder inputs are required to counteract engine/prop tourque/effect
etc... Meanwhile, when rolling into turns there is mild adverse yaw
requiring only small rudder pressure.
My conclusion about the 601 is that it is easy to fly, but
challenging to fly well, keeping all these various 'twitchys' to a
minumum.
fwiw,
Grant Corriveau
Nanaimo, B.C.
C-GHTF
================
On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
> From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch
> airport
>
> Rick-
> Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was
> that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net
I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would appreciate any
suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built Spars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Check the archives regarding a special type of file - the name might be
a Vixen (somebody have the exact name?). It has curved ridges and
lightly rubbed against the line of rivet holes, takes a lot of the rough
stuff off. Then deburr in the normal manner with a drill point, etc.
Robert Schoenberger 701
VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 9/8/06 dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
>> I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice
>> you have to offer would be appreciated
>
>
> Start deburring!
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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| Subject: | Center Spar Completed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my scratch-built
XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very solid structure.
Photos attached.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
Ch601XL Plans builder
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL |
Steven,
After many years involved with EAA and homebuilding all metal airplanes,
I would like to pass on a couple of general things that apply to
building any kind of airplane followed by one Zenith specific item.
These are just the opinions of one person and not presented as what
everyone would say you MUST do. Just my experiences after many years
doing it!
1) Once the kind of airplane is decided upon, obtain the plans and
construction manual ( in the case of Zenith, additionally, the picture
guides showing construction) and study them thoroughly, as in build the
airplane in your mind at least twice before beginning.
2) While studying the plans, ( again, specific to ZAC ) note the the
information that you need to do a certain part or assembly WILL be found
on more than one drawing. The sad part here is that, often the drawings
are not referenced to each other. My suggestion is that you write these
drawing to drawing references yourself, as you go along, using a color
that stands out. Anywhere you simply don't understand something ask ZAC
or the good folks on the Matronics List.
3) Decide on the engine you are going to use as early in the project as
you can. This allows informed decisions to be made as you progress with
the fuselage, especially the front end and the instrument panel. Order
the firewall forward kit or at least get your engine mount in hand when
building up the firewall. Build to fit, not just to dimensions.
4) When the kit arrives, do a thorough inventory ( check the actual
thickness and size of the metal parts) and create a shelving/storage
system identifying the location ( on what shelf - number or letter
identity ) and write that location on the inventory sheet. You prevent
misplacing parts that way!
One Zenith specific item that I have seen cause trouble for builders and
has resulted in cracks in attach fittings is the fit of the horizontal
stabilizer to the aft fuselage. My suggestion is if you build the tail
feathers first as many builders do, dont attach the forward vertical
horizontal stabilizer attach fittings to the front stab. spar until the
aft fuselage is made. Then you can locate the fittings where there is a
great fit with no preload. I don't have a 601XL set of plans in front
of me. Otherwise I would use part numbers here. An alternative is to
make a jig or template to locate the fittings, but just make it to fit.
I hope these few ideas will be of value to you as you start on the
rewarding journey of building a nice airplane.
do not archive
Jim Hoak - 601HD - Rotax 912UL - 527 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Janicki
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: New to the Group - Plan to
Build CH601XL
Hello All,
I am new to this group and am planning to start building a CH601XL
before the end of this year.
With that said, I have been doing quite a bit of reading and made a
phone call to Zenith to better understand the differences between
the QB and Standard Kits.
After my conversation with Sebastian I am leaning towards the
Standard kit. My impression is that the standard kit will save me a
fair sum of money and still provide features such as pilot holes on
wing, fuselage and other surface skins. The difference in cost will
also help towards my engine, avionics, paint funds.
I also plan to start with the tail kit and build from components as
I understand improvements to the kit are planned and I would like to
take advantage of them if and when they are released.
I live in Northern California (Redwood City to be exact) and plan to
build in my garage in order to maximize my time availability. I have
built in the past but never completed an aircraft primarily due to
my desire to fly more than build. Fortunately I have most if not all
of the tools I need to build having purchased them along the way
durning my past building episodes.
Now that I am older (and hopefully wiser) I have settled on the
CH601XL and plan to take advantage being able to fly under LSA in
the future as my flying needs have become more about enjoying an
hour or two in the air vs. IFR, cross country flying, etc.
I am also leaning on the Jabiru 3300 engine and a budget glass
cockpit.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to
getting started and completing the CH601XL!
Regards,
Steven
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Center Spar Completed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@n344rb.com>
Nope Dave, no photos attached...
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
> For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my
> scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very
> solid structure. Photos attached.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> Ch601XL Plans builder
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
HI;
My HDS with a 912S requires a significant amount of right rudder on
take-off but very little anytime after that.
Mike
CH-601HDS 1400+ hours
Grant Corriveau wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the
> movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my
> aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably
> there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day
> ha ha.! )
>
> The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll.
> But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When I
> pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how
> much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full
> power ops (climb out), to a significant amount of right pedal during
> glides/approaches. (NOTE* You may need to reverse those left/right
> indications for your engine - mine rotates counterclockwise as viewed
> from the cockpit ;-) ...
>
> In summary, due to the short coupling of the airplane, definite rudder
> inputs are required to counteract engine/prop tourque/effect etc...
> Meanwhile, when rolling into turns there is mild adverse yaw requiring
> only small rudder pressure.
>
> My conclusion about the 601 is that it is easy to fly, but challenging
> to fly well, keeping all these various 'twitchys' to a minumum.
>
> fwiw,
> Grant Corriveau
> Nanaimo, B.C.
> C-GHTF
>
> ================
> On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
>
>> From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net <mailto:naumuk@alltel.net>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport
>>
>>
>> Rick-
>>
>> Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was
>>
>> that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver.
>>
>> Bill Naumuk
>>
>> HDS Fuselage
>>
>> Townville, Pa
>>
>
> -------------------------------
> grant.corriveau@telus.net <mailto:grant.corriveau@telus.net>
> ---------------------------------------
> The Wings Stayed On!
> http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL |
Welcome aboard.
Carroll Jernigan
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
I haven't seen any reference to a "rudder trim tab" on the forum. Anyone want
to weigh in?
Terry Turnquist
601 XL Plans
St. Peters, MO
do not archive
Grant Corriveau <grant.corriveau@telus.net> wrote:
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie
clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my aircraft, but then
I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably there alright, waiting to
be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day ha ha.! )
The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll. But there
is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When I pay close
attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how much rudder "trim"
is required, from a lot of left pedal during full power ops ......
fwiw,
Grant Corriveau
Nanaimo, B.C.
C-GHTF
================
On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport
Rick-
Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was
that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Center Spar Completed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@n344rb.com>
Sorry Dave,
It was my browser that wasn't displaying the images... My bad, sorry,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
> For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my
> scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very
> solid structure. Photos attached.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> Ch601XL Plans builder
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: CH 640 Controls |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "moorecomp" <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Hello,
I think Jeff Paden has the best pictures of the setup for the aileron controls.
Go here:
http://www.madbbs.com/~jpaden/fuselage/13-Fuselage-Hull-stage-1-part2/index10.html
Best regards,
Craig Moore A&P
701 builder wannabe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60412#60412
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Robert:
We tried a number of ways before contacting Trade-a-Plane. It took
about two weeks and it was sold.
Stan
Sold 601 HDS
Building 701
On Sep 8, 2006, at 11:12 AM, rwhall@telusplanet.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net
>
>
> I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would
> appreciate any
> suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Center Spar Completed - photos URLs below |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Not literaly attached - click the URLs given... (bottom of this thread)
Carlos
--- Randy Bryant <randy@n344rb.com> a crit :
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@n344rb.com>
>
> Nope Dave, no photos attached...
>
> Randy
> XL Wings - Plans Only
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
> >
> > For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my
> > scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very
> > solid structure. Photos attached.
> >
> > Dave Clay
> > Temple, TX
> > Ch601XL Plans builder
> > http://www.daves601xl.com
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg
__________________________________________________________
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
Grant,
In my 701, I have taken videos out the front as well. On approach, I
was surprised to see how much the nose moved back and forth in the
video. I don't notice this myself during approach. If the video camera
is zoomed in a bit, I think it might exaggerate the motion.
I flew today with the camera aimed at the instrument panel. In cruise
the turn and bank was fairly calm. But on approach it was active, I
think we make corrections as needed without realizing it. You can sure
tell when you are not coordinated. I only need rudder on take off. The
right thrust takes care of cruise and no power is ok for approach. I
need a bit more down thrust as the elevator trim changes a lot from
cruise to approach.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Jabiru 2200
----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Corriveau
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in
the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my
aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably
there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day
ha ha.! )
The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll.
But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When
I pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how
much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full
power ops (climb out), to a significant amount of right pedal during
glides/approaches. (NOTE* You may need to reverse those left/right
indications for your engine - mine rotates counterclockwise as viewed
from the cockpit ;-) ...
In summary, due to the short coupling of the airplane, definite rudder
inputs are required to counteract engine/prop tourque/effect etc...
Meanwhile, when rolling into turns there is mild adverse yaw requiring
only small rudder pressure.
My conclusion about the 601 is that it is easy to fly, but challenging
to fly well, keeping all these various 'twitchys' to a minumum.
fwiw,
Grant Corriveau
Nanaimo, B.C.
C-GHTF
================
On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch
airport
Rick-
Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was
that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
I thought of this early in the game, and since I'm scratch building I
could incorporate it fairly easily... I spoke to several A&P friends of
mine and they said that rudder trim was installed on planes with larger
engines, for the reason, I'm assuming P-Factor, and they went on to say
that with the size engine and plane I was building that they didn't
think rudder trim would be necessary... They said that maybe a bendable
tab on the rudder after I was flying, but they'd steer away from an
actual trim...
Thanks,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Turnquist
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
I haven't seen any reference to a "rudder trim tab" on the forum.
Anyone want to weigh in?
Terry Turnquist
601 XL Plans
St. Peters, MO
do not archive
Grant Corriveau <grant.corriveau@telus.net> wrote:
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in
the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my
aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably
there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day
ha ha.! )
The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing
roll. But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes.
When I pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see
how much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full
power ops ......
fwiw,
Grant Corriveau
Nanaimo, B.C.
C-GHTF
================
On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch
airport
Rick-
Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or
was
that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
--> http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built Spars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Yes, it's a vixen. (This is a reference to a type of file, not to a foxy
stripper from NAPA.) If you can't find a vixen file, try a laminate file.
They are made for use on Formica-type laminates, but they do a good job on
aluminum.
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch built Spars
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger
<hrs1@frontiernet.net>
>
> Check the archives regarding a special type of file - the name might be
> a Vixen (somebody have the exact name?). It has curved ridges and
> lightly rubbed against the line of rivet holes, takes a lot of the rough
> stuff off. Then deburr in the normal manner with a drill point, etc.
> Robert Schoenberger 701
>
> VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote:
> > In a message dated 9/8/06 dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
> >
> >> I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice
> >> you have to offer would be appreciated
> >
> >
> >
> > Start deburring!
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Forney" <dforney@bctonline.com>
Anytime that I talk to someone about the possibility of selling a homebuilt
if or when I was ever unable to fly it, they always caution me against the
thought due to possible liability lawsuits as the manufacturer.
Anyone else ever worry about that when selling, or are there ways to protect
yourself?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stanley
Challgren
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Robert:
We tried a number of ways before contacting Trade-a-Plane. It took
about two weeks and it was sold.
Stan
Sold 601 HDS
Building 701
On Sep 8, 2006, at 11:12 AM, rwhall@telusplanet.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net
>
>
> I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would
> appreciate any
> suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zenair for sale |
Robert,
Barnstormers is the best aviation web site and adds are free unless
you want to make a donation. I have used them and always make a
donation after the sale. It's also a good idea to tell people where you
are because there might be someone close who is looking for a
Zenith/Zodiac aircraft to buy.
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHPSESSID=2ef94a86daa861b6da0186831
53522ef
Bob Stone, Harker Heights
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: <rwhall@telusplanet.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net
>
>
> I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would
appreciate any
> suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Center Spar Completed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Randy,
Just keep on scrolling down and you will find three web site address's
(URL's) each one shows a different view of the center spar Dave is talking
about.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Bryant" <randy@n344rb.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@n344rb.com>
>
> Nope Dave, no photos attached...
>
> Randy
> XL Wings - Plans Only
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>>
>> For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my
>> scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a
>> very solid structure. Photos attached.
>>
>> Dave Clay
>> Temple, TX
>> Ch601XL Plans builder
>> http://www.daves601xl.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Gary-
Same question I have put differently.
How do you polish the 95% of the structure that looks good, but cover
up the leading edge and wing tips (Which is where all the problems seem to
occur) without affecting flight characteristics or removing painted trim?
There's a C120 in this month's SA that's configured this way. Of course,
there's no sense asking the owner, because the 120 was a rag wing.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and
> polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was
> done?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked".
> There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing).
>
> As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type,
> so
> no prep would be
> required either.
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
>
> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> a crit :
>
>> All-
>> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane,
> or just the painted
>> trim sections?
>> do not archive
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuselage
>> Townville, Pa
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Chris-
Twin etch. Thanks. I live 56 miles from a NAPA store, but only 3 when
you figure I commute 53 to work, and that's in the city where the store is
located.
If I'd received a straight answer from the list yesterday, I could have
picked up what I needed on my lunch break. Now I have to either drive 100+
miles or wait until Monday and modify my building schedule.
I'm as big an offender as anyone else, but remember people, the site is
supposed to be used for helping fellow builders.
Archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
>>From a reply to your "White Corrosion" post from yesterday:
>
>
> NAPA carries a Martin-Senour product called "Twin Etch".
>
>
> Best regards,
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris Owens
> Waunakee, WI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60279#60279
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Bill,
Sorry, I didn't mean to re-phrase your question as you were quite clear, but
I asked this of the list over a week ago and nobody had a response. Just
thought I'd try again, on top of your question.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Gary-
Same question I have put differently.
How do you polish the 95% of the structure that looks good, but cover
up the leading edge and wing tips (Which is where all the problems seem to
occur) without affecting flight characteristics or removing painted trim?
There's a C120 in this month's SA that's configured this way. Of course,
there's no sense asking the owner, because the 120 was a rag wing.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and
> polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was
> done?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked".
> There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing).
>
> As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type,
> so
> no prep would be
> required either.
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
>
> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> a crit :
>
>> All-
>> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane,
> or just the painted
>> trim sections?
>> do not archive
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuselage
>> Townville, Pa
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
All-
I don't think rudder trim is the solution, either. It would seem
from a geometrical perspective that an increase in the width of the
rudder bellcrank would calm things down. By width, I mean the distance
between the control cable attachment (Unless, of course, there are
other aerodynamic factors at work.) You'd pay a minute penalty in drag
from the additional metal hanging in the wind, but is it worth it?
While it's obviously evident in the video, it's not evident to
people closer to the CG. I was in the back seat of an A-36 Bonanza and
the Dutch Roll was so bad you wanted to puke. 2'
each way on each oscillation. The guys up front didn't beleive me until
they sat in the back.
Dutch roll can't improve performance and fuel consumption.
Unfortunately, changing the geometry of a bellcrank is a major (And to
be avoided) airframe modification.
I don't know who else to contact. Mark (Zodie)- can you kick this
question upstairs? Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Corriveau
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in
the movie clip too.
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
Message 32
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Gary-
Cripes, don't apologize- you didn't step on my toes. Just seems like it
takes forever to get a straight answer from the list lately.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Sorry, I didn't mean to re-phrase your question as you were quite clear,
> but
> I asked this of the list over a week ago and nobody had a response. Just
> thought I'd try again, on top of your question.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
>
> Gary-
> Same question I have put differently.
> How do you polish the 95% of the structure that looks good, but cover
> up the leading edge and wing tips (Which is where all the problems seem to
> occur) without affecting flight characteristics or removing painted trim?
> There's a C120 in this month's SA that's configured this way. Of course,
> there's no sense asking the owner, because the 120 was a rag wing.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 11:16 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>>
>> Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and
>> polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was
>> done?
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
>> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked".
>> There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing).
>>
>> As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type,
>> so
>> no prep would be
>> required either.
>>
>> Carlos
>> CH601-HD, plans
>>
>> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> a crit :
>>
>>> All-
>>> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane,
>> or just the painted
>>> trim sections?
>>> do not archive
>>> Bill Naumuk
>>> HDS Fuselage
>>> Townville, Pa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Center Spar Completed - solid riveter design |
> Dave / List Members
>
>
> Thanks for the off list reply another amazing invention!
> I tried the ch601.org rivet / dimpler design and am having trouble
> lining up the cup head with the striking bar. My inept attempt have
> so far cost me =A370 - your $15 design looks good. I will try it
> tomorrow
I would have attached the .pdf file with the full description of the
device - but it is too big for the list. Could you post it on your
web site so that everyone can have sight of it
>
> Dave
> 601XL - Scratchbuild wings
> Washington UK
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Dave and Jan Clay <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>> Date: 8 September 2006 23:30:19 BDT
>> To: davidhwright@mac.com
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed
>>
>>
>> Hello David,
>>
>> I've been using a drill bit to deburr. I was hoping someone might
>> suggest a more elegant method. Maybe there isn't one.
>>
>> Like you, I had no experience with solid rivets. I had built this
>> up in my mind as a terribly difficult task. I constructed this
>> little rivet setting device. It works amazingly well. All but one
>> of my rivets turned out close to perfect. I was able to do the
>> entire center spar in less than 45 minutes.
>>
>> The secret is to just align the punch by hand. The device just
>> acts like a third hand to support the punch. It really could not
>> have been easier. I was very pleased with the results.
>>
>> Thanks for your input on the deburring. Hope I've helped with your
>> solid rivet issue.
>>
>> Dave Clay
>> Temple, TX
>> http://www.daves601xl.com
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get the new Windows Live Messenger! http://imagine-msn.com/
>> messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline
> <Dave's $15 Riveter.pdf>
>
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Sorry Bill, IF I had known the answer about the part/stripper I would have
included it in my post.
BUT in trying times, humor can relive stress.
BUT when one lays out a straight line like that one, There are those of us
that will pounce on it.
Remember: When you are 90% complete, there's still 90% to go..
KABONG Do Not Archive this either.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper
Message 35
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| Subject: | Rudder twitchy's |
I honestly believe that no change is necessary, in flight the rudder
acts as it should and as noted your turn and bank hardly move with only
a small pressure to help in your coordinated turns. On approach we all
(well not all but I=92m just as guilty) seem to do the two step all over
the rudder pedals, now this is normal and with such a big rudder we tend
to go back and forth just for something to do. But when it comes to
cross wind landings we all know that the Zodiac and 701 handle far far
more then most others planes of the same size, this is also due to the
rudder=92s ability, it has a lot to do without having a vertical
stabilizer. Of which I believe is a golden point of our planes. So for
something that cannot be perceived in the last couple minutes of flight
by the pilot and passenger, playing with the geometry of the rudder is
unwarranted. Simply put, to gain so little on a small part of our
flight we would sacrifice to much on a large part of our adventure and
in the safety of our chosen bird. Nevertheless, to each their own, when
I fly with seasoned 601 owners I don=92t notice and tail wag but new
owners are a different story.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
All-
I don't think rudder trim is the solution, either. It would seem
from a geometrical perspective that an increase in the width of the
rudder bellcrank would calm things down. By width, I mean the distance
between the control cable attachment (Unless, of course, there are
other aerodynamic factors at work.) You'd pay a minute penalty in drag
from the additional metal hanging in the wind, but is it worth it?
While it's obviously evident in the video, it's not evident to
people closer to the CG. I was in the back seat of an A-36 Bonanza and
the Dutch Roll was so bad you wanted to puke. 2'
each way on each oscillation. The guys up front didn't beleive me until
they sat in the back.
Dutch roll can't improve performance and fuel consumption.
Unfortunately, changing the geometry of a bellcrank is a major (And to
be avoided) airframe modification.
I don't know who else to contact. Mark (Zodie)- can you kick this
question upstairs? Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET"Grant Corriveau
"mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com"zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the
movie clip too.
-------------------------------
HYPERLINK "mailto:grant.corriveau@telus.net"grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
HYPERLINK "http://aluwings.blogspirit.com"http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
--
--
Message 36
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| Subject: | Video Camera mount |
----- Original Message -----
From: <jlatimer1@cox.net>>>
> Please email the photo to the least so all can see how to mount the
> camera.
> Thanks
> Jerry
> HDS 912S
Got out to the hangar this afternoon and shot a couple pics of that mount.
It's a piece of .063 6061-T6 (10" X 3") with the edges bent for
stiffness. I bolted on a stainless steel Adel clamp that just clips over
the bows in the front of the turtledeck. There's one bolt at the back that
holds it on, but I plan on changing that over to a camlock for quick
installation and removal. Had to add a stiffner top and bottom to take out
the springiness, otherwise the camera bobbed up and down too much in turbs.
Ain't real pretty, but it seems to work OK.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Welcome to the wonderful land of home building. One other option that I took is
scratch building. Zenith has good detailed drawings and that is going to save
me more money, and keep me busy for longer. Everything is a trade off one
way or the other.
I am having so much fun, hope you do too.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60490#60490
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
Thanks, Mark, for your quick response. If the movement doesn't occur
in cruise flight as it did in the A36 I spoke of, no big deal. A
definite PIA if it does. Maybe some cruise photos could be taken with,
say, a road for reference.
The movement has probably been going on since day 1. No one could
see it until digital camcorders came around.
Once again, no big deal, but an opportunity for improvement.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Zodie Rocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
I honestly believe that no change is necessary, in flight the rudder
acts as it should and as noted your turn and bank hardly move with only
a small pressure to help in your coordinated turns. On approach we all
(well not all but I=92m just as guilty) seem to do the two step all over
the rudder pedals, now this is normal and with such a big rudder we tend
to go back and forth just for something to do. But when it comes to
cross wind landings we all know that the Zodiac and 701 handle far far
more then most others planes of the same size, this is also due to the
rudder=92s ability, it has a lot to do without having a vertical
stabilizer. Of which I believe is a golden point of our planes. So for
something that cannot be perceived in the last couple minutes of flight
by the pilot and passenger, playing with the geometry of the rudder is
unwarranted. Simply put, to gain so little on a small part of our
flight we would sacrifice to much on a large part of our adventure and
in the safety of our chosen bird. Nevertheless, to each their own, when
I fly with seasoned 601 owners I don=92t notice and tail wag but new
owners are a different story.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:35 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
All-
I don't think rudder trim is the solution, either. It would seem
from a geometrical perspective that an increase in the width of the
rudder bellcrank would calm things down. By width, I mean the distance
between the control cable attachment (Unless, of course, there are
other aerodynamic factors at work.) You'd pay a minute penalty in drag
from the additional metal hanging in the wind, but is it worth it?
While it's obviously evident in the video, it's not evident to
people closer to the CG. I was in the back seat of an A-36 Bonanza and
the Dutch Roll was so bad you wanted to puke. 2'
each way on each oscillation. The guys up front didn't beleive me
until they sat in the back.
Dutch roll can't improve performance and fuel consumption.
Unfortunately, changing the geometry of a bellcrank is a major (And to
be avoided) airframe modification.
I don't know who else to contact. Mark (Zodie)- can you kick this
question upstairs? Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Corriveau
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in
the movie clip too.
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
--> - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-->
--
9/8/2006
--
9/8/2006
Message 39
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
John-
I know, I left myself open. Maybe we ought to have a code for when we're
serious and when we're not.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Sorry Bill, IF I had known the answer about the part/stripper I would have
> included it in my post.
> BUT in trying times, humor can relive stress.
> BUT when one lays out a straight line like that one, There are those of us
> that will pounce on it.
> Remember: When you are 90% complete, there's still 90% to go..
> KABONG Do Not Archive this either.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Another Youtube video of Zodiac at Fox Field (KWJF) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@can.rogers.com>> Re these videos..
> How do I download these videos as a file and store on the PC?
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
I just found Youtube a couple of days ago and don't know how to download
and save. Here's another video of a high and fast landing at Fox Field
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tljAPJ328
I'll put a larger filesize version at http://www.lightflyers.com/kwjf.mpg
that you can download and save.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL |
Hi Steven,
Welcome aboard.
I am also building a 601XL and plan to use a Jabiru 3300 along with
one of the lower end EFIS units. I think I may end up with one of
the newer combined units from Dynon that has both flight
instrumentation and engine monitoring functions as well. Since my
wife is also a Pilot, I may put one of those units on each side of
the panel to allow for switching which side the pilot operates
from. For now my only contribution to the instrument panel is a Lift
Reserve Indicator I made while waiting for the long lead time on the wing kit.
I am also building from the standard kit. The quick-build kit wasn't
available when I started about 15 months ago. I tend to work on my
plane every day but only for an hour or two. I am well into the
fuselage and have completed the wings and tail section. I had to
build three wings since I messed up the first one - something to do
with the alignment of the nose skin.
If I were to do it again I would still use the standard kit. I enjoy
building, but I don't want to go crazy trying to figure out how to
make 12 foot long bends in sheet metal or spend a lot of time making
wing ribs or welding. I am happy to pay ZAC for those specialized
efforts as well as the hunting down of proper materials. That makes
me a poor candidate for scratch building, and I agree with you that I
would rather do the building myself than pay for some "Outsourced"
building of the basic structure which I believe is how the
quick-build kits are done.
I have found ZAC does a great job of supplying the correct materials
and the cutting and bending seems quite good. I wish I could say
such nice things about the pre-drilled holes in some of the
parts. They may have improved recently with the new equipment, but I
doubt the whole process has been changed enough to make the pilot
holes work out well. I think the problem is they drill pilot holes
in the wing skin (for example) but the builder locates and drills all
the holes for the ribs and rear channel. That means the holes in the
skin are not specific to the exact position of the ribs and rear
channel. This is not a show stopper, I found by several trials I
could minimize the "Error" in the pilot hole positions and wind up
with a perfectly acceptable wing. It just is not as easy as you
might think having the pilot holes done at the factory. (Indeed when
I reordered parts for the third wing I needed I got the wing skins
undrilled. That worked out better for me than having the pilot holes
in places that didn't match my ribs.)
My last comment is this email list is a great resource for me and I
am sure you will find it valuable too. There are many posts that
are best ignored, but every now and then there is a real jewel which
makes the whole process worthwhile.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 09:38 AM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>I am new to this group and am planning to start building a CH601XL
>before the end of this year.
>
>With that said, I have been doing quite a bit of reading and made a
>phone call to Zenith to better understand the differences between
>the QB and Standard Kits.
>
>After my conversation with Sebastian I am leaning towards the
>Standard kit. My impression is that the standard kit will save me a
>fair sum of money and still provide features such as pilot holes on
>wing, fuselage and other surface skins. The difference in cost will
>also help towards my engine, avionics, paint funds.
>
>I also plan to start with the tail kit and build from components as
>I understand improvements to the kit are planned and I would like to
>take advantage of them if and when they are released.
>
>I live in Northern California (Redwood City to be exact) and plan to
>build in my garage in order to maximize my time availability. I have
>built in the past but never completed an aircraft primarily due to
>my desire to fly more than build. Fortunately I have most if not all
>of the tools I need to build having purchased them along the way
>durning my past building episodes.
>
>Now that I am older (and hopefully wiser) I have settled on the
>CH601XL and plan to take advantage being able to fly under LSA in
>the future as my flying needs have become more about enjoying an
>hour or two in the air vs. IFR, cross country flying, etc.
>
>I am also leaning on the Jabiru 3300 engine and a budget glass
>cockpit.
>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to
>getting started and completing the CH601XL!
>
>Regards,
>
>Steven
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Stripper (Fluff) |
I think her name was Shayna. :)
Jim
DO NOT ARCHIVE
In a message dated 9/7/2006 6:42:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
naumuk@alltel.net writes:
All-
Screwed up with my files somewhere. Mea culpa!
What was the name of the stripper available from NAPA?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage (Progress in quicksand)
Townville, Pa
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Stripper (Humor - Erase now if you don't want a |
chuckle)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
I got this story today via email. Erase if you don't
want to laugh:
A man and his ever-nagging wife went on vacation to
Jerusalem. While they were there, the wife passed
away. The undertaker told the husband, "You
can have her shipped home for $5,000, or you can bury
her here, in the Holy Land, for $150."
The man thought about it and told him he would just
have her shipped home.
The undertaker asked, "Why would you spend $5,000 to
ship your wife home, when it would be wonderful to be
buried here and you would spend only
$150?"
The man replied, "Long ago a man died here, was buried
here, and three days later he rose from the dead. I
just can't take that chance."
Scott Laughlin
Working on engine Cowl
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/9_2_06_Intake5.JPG
--- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
> <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
> John-
> I know, I left myself open. Maybe we ought to
> have a code for when we're
> serious and when we're not.
> Bill Naumuk
__________________________________________________
Message 44
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|
Might anyone know of unworked 701 sub kits for sale? By unworked, I mean
that haven't been started yet. Thanks
Message 45
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|
Gary,
If your question is how to polish there are many commercial products
available. The one I used was Nuvite, they have a display every year up
at Osh. As I may have all ready said on this list I found the "secret"
to polishing especially "old" several years, aluminum was to first wet
the aluminum with mineral spirits (paint thinner) then use the Nuvite. I
don't think I spent any more time polishing then I would to prep and
paint the airplane. What I like is if there is some part I don't think
is good enough or has gotten damaged I can just rebuff it and I never
have to worry about matching the color.
Tim Shankland
Gary Boothe wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
>Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and
>polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was
>done?
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, CA
>601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
>Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
>Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked".
>There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing).
>
>As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type, so
>no prep would be
>required either.
>
>Carlos
>CH601-HD, plans
>
>--- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> a crit :
>
>
>
>>All-
>> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane,
>>
>>
>or just the painted
>
>
>>trim sections?
>> do not archive
>>Bill Naumuk
>>HDS Fuselage
>>Townville, Pa
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
Message 46
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|
I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on my
801. Any reasons for or against?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe wires. |
Hi Dave,
That wouldn't work very well on a 601, but I don't know about the
801. The 601 has fuel tanks on the inboard half of the nose rib
area. They would get in the way of the strobe wires.
One question: Will you install the power supplies for the strobes at
the wing tips or in the fuselage? If you are running the wires that
connect the power supplies to the actual strobe lamps all the way
down the length of the wings, I would recommend shielding them. That
means putting them in a conductive sleeve of some sort with one end
(probably the fuselage end) grounded to the frame and the other end
floating electrically. The idea is to keep the high voltage impulses
away from your radios and antennas.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 09:13 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
>I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on
>my 801. Any reasons for or against?
>
>Dave in Salem
>801
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: Strobe wires. |
Hi Paul,
I have 2 tanks per wing and they are located behind the main spar. There
is nothing between the leading edge of the spar and the nose skin except
a lot of room. I am mounting the strobe power supplies to the spar tips
and running the strobe and nav light wires through the wing to a switch.
I think I will also run a ground wire along with them instead of
grounding to the wing structure. I don't know if it makes any
difference, but it's easy to do at this stage and it can't hurt
anything. I'm always curious how other people do things and this is a
good group to pick up a lot of useful information.
Thanks for the input.
Dave in Salem
801
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
Hi Dave,
That wouldn't work very well on a 601, but I don't know about the 801.
The 601 has fuel tanks on the inboard half of the nose rib area. They
would get in the way of the strobe wires.
One question: Will you install the power supplies for the strobes at
the wing tips or in the fuselage? If you are running the wires that
connect the power supplies to the actual strobe lamps all the way down
the length of the wings, I would recommend shielding them. That means
putting them in a conductive sleeve of some sort with one end (probably
the fuselage end) grounded to the frame and the other end floating
electrically. The idea is to keep the high voltage impulses away from
your radios and antennas.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 09:13 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on
my 801. Any reasons for or against?
Dave in Salem
801
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Paul,
I read your post and I think I noticed that you drill holes in your ribs
then matched them up to the outer skin?
Here is how I do that operation:
Pilot drill the skin first.
Draw lines on the ribs where the holes should go
Insert ribs and line up the lines through the holes in the skin.
Drill one hole through rib, add cleco (start with the silver)
Go to the next rib and repeat paying paticular attention to keeping the skin tight
to the ribs.
Tip: you may need to stick a pointy tool in one hole to line up the one you want
to drill.
FWIW
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60534#60534
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