---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/08/06: 49 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Stripper (Edward Moody II) 2. 05:15 AM - tow bar tail dragger (alex trent) 3. 07:08 AM - Re: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport (R.P.) 4. 07:52 AM - Re: Scratch built Spars (TxDave) 5. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: Scratch built Spars (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 6. 09:38 AM - New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Steven Janicki) 7. 09:53 AM - Re: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport (Dave Austin) 8. 09:58 AM - CH 640 Controls (2thesky) 9. 10:01 AM - Rudder twitchy's (Grant Corriveau) 10. 10:12 AM - Zenair for sale (rwhall@telusplanet.net) 11. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Scratch built Spars (Robert Schoenberger) 12. 10:26 AM - Center Spar Completed (TxDave) 13. 10:29 AM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Jim Hoak) 14. 11:02 AM - Re: Center Spar Completed (Randy Bryant) 15. 11:04 AM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Mike Fothergill) 16. 11:37 AM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Trainnut01@aol.com) 17. 11:38 AM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Terry Turnquist) 18. 11:51 AM - Re: Center Spar Completed (Randy Bryant) 19. 11:53 AM - Re: CH 640 Controls (moorecomp) 20. 12:17 PM - Re: Zenair for sale (Stanley Challgren) 21. 12:17 PM - RE : Re: Center Spar Completed - photos URLs below (Carlos Sa) 22. 12:19 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Chuck Deiterich) 23. 12:23 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Randy Bryant) 24. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: Scratch built Spars (George Swinford) 25. 01:47 PM - Re: Zenair for sale (Dan Forney) 26. 01:47 PM - Re: Zenair for sale (Robert L. Stone) 27. 01:57 PM - Re: Center Spar Completed (Robert L. Stone) 28. 03:48 PM - Re: Polishing (Bill Naumuk) 29. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Bill Naumuk) 30. 04:07 PM - Re: Polishing (Gary Boothe) 31. 04:35 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Bill Naumuk) 32. 04:42 PM - Re: Polishing (Bill Naumuk) 33. 05:04 PM - Re: Center Spar Completed - solid riveter design (David Wright) 34. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (JOHN STARN) 35. 05:40 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Zodie Rocket) 36. 05:44 PM - Video Camera mount (R.P.) 37. 06:37 PM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Ron Lendon) 38. 06:40 PM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Bill Naumuk) 39. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Bill Naumuk) 40. 06:58 PM - Another Youtube video of Zodiac at Fox Field (KWJF) (R.P.) 41. 07:19 PM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Paul Mulwitz) 42. 07:44 PM - Re: Stripper (Fluff) (J2j3h4@aol.com) 43. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Humor - Erase now if you don't want a chuckle) (N5SL) 44. 08:06 PM - 701 sub kits (Rmtnview@aol.com) 45. 08:18 PM - Re: Polishing (Tim & Diane Shankland) 46. 09:14 PM - Strobe wires. (Dave Ruddiman) 47. 09:58 PM - Re: Strobe wires. (Paul Mulwitz) 48. 10:33 PM - Re: Strobe wires. (Dave Ruddiman) 49. 11:52 PM - Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:50 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stripper Yep, and the word is that they're TWINS!!! Cool, huh? Ed Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: NYTerminat@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:23 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stripper NAPA has strippers? do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:33 AM PST US From: alex trent Subject: Zenith-List: tow bar tail dragger --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent Does anyone have a sketch or photo of a towbar for a 601 taildragger? alex do not archive > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:15 AM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport >Rick- > Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was that > >PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver. >Bill Naumuk > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYX52rNWFXk Yeah Bill, I really noticed that on this video. I'm not sure if it's PIO or just the result of keeping the wings level in the turbulent air that morning, probably a little of both. I'll be more more consious of this now that I have seen what it looks like in the video. After flying Quicksilvers for several years I have a tendency to use more rudder than aileron to lift a low wing. Rick Pitcher ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch built Spars From: "TxDave" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" Hey Terry, I was the guy making the inquiry about scratch building spars. Thanks for sharing the photo. I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice you have to offer would be appreciated. Dave Clay Temple, Texas Ch601XL Scratch Builder http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60357#60357 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:36 AM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch built Spars In a message dated 9/8/06 dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice you > have to offer would be appreciated Start deburring! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:58 AM PST US From: Steven Janicki Subject: Zenith-List: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL Hello All, I am new to this group and am planning to start building a CH601XL before the end of this year. With that said, I have been doing quite a bit of reading and made a phone call to Zenith to better understand the differences between the QB and Standard Kits. After my conversation with Sebastian I am leaning towards the Standard kit. My impression is that the standard kit will save me a fair sum of money and still provide features such as pilot holes on wing, fuselage and other surface skins. The difference in cost will also help towards my engine, avionics, paint funds. I also plan to start with the tail kit and build from components as I understand improvements to the kit are planned and I would like to take advantage of them if and when they are released. I live in Northern California (Redwood City to be exact) and plan to build in my garage in order to maximize my time availability. I have built in the past but never completed an aircraft primarily due to my desire to fly more than build. Fortunately I have most if not all of the tools I need to build having purchased them along the way durning my past building episodes. Now that I am older (and hopefully wiser) I have settled on the CH601XL and plan to take advantage being able to fly under LSA in the future as my flying needs have become more about enjoying an hour or two in the air vs. IFR, cross country flying, etc. I am also leaning on the Jabiru 3300 engine and a budget glass cockpit. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to getting started and completing the CH601XL! Regards, Steven --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:08 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" Re these videos.. How do I download these videos as a file and store on the PC? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH 640 Controls From: "2thesky" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" Hello all, I was cruising the web looking at some of the ch640 stuff and noticed that the control yoke on the 640 doesn't use bicycle chain on the portion under the panel. I am curious how this works. The only ones I have ever seen (not that many) have the chain. Someone care to explain how this works or maybe post a pic of it? Just curious. Thanks, Nate in OK do not archive -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60384#60384 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:28 AM PST US From: Grant Corriveau Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's Hi Bill, I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day ha ha.! ) The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll. But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When I pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full power ops (climb out), to a significant amount of right pedal during glides/approaches. (NOTE* You may need to reverse those left/right indications for your engine - mine rotates counterclockwise as viewed from the cockpit ;-) ... In summary, due to the short coupling of the airplane, definite rudder inputs are required to counteract engine/prop tourque/effect etc... Meanwhile, when rolling into turns there is mild adverse yaw requiring only small rudder pressure. My conclusion about the 601 is that it is easy to fly, but challenging to fly well, keeping all these various 'twitchys' to a minumum. fwiw, Grant Corriveau Nanaimo, B.C. C-GHTF ================ On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > From: "Bill Naumuk" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch > airport > > Rick- > Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was > that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:57 AM PST US From: rwhall@telusplanet.net Subject: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would appreciate any suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:11 AM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch built Spars --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger Check the archives regarding a special type of file - the name might be a Vixen (somebody have the exact name?). It has curved ridges and lightly rubbed against the line of rivet holes, takes a lot of the rough stuff off. Then deburr in the normal manner with a drill point, etc. Robert Schoenberger 701 VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/06 dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > >> I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice >> you have to offer would be appreciated > > > Start deburring! > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:42 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed From: "TxDave" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very solid structure. Photos attached. Dave Clay Temple, TX Ch601XL Plans builder http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:03 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL Steven, After many years involved with EAA and homebuilding all metal airplanes, I would like to pass on a couple of general things that apply to building any kind of airplane followed by one Zenith specific item. These are just the opinions of one person and not presented as what everyone would say you MUST do. Just my experiences after many years doing it! 1) Once the kind of airplane is decided upon, obtain the plans and construction manual ( in the case of Zenith, additionally, the picture guides showing construction) and study them thoroughly, as in build the airplane in your mind at least twice before beginning. 2) While studying the plans, ( again, specific to ZAC ) note the the information that you need to do a certain part or assembly WILL be found on more than one drawing. The sad part here is that, often the drawings are not referenced to each other. My suggestion is that you write these drawing to drawing references yourself, as you go along, using a color that stands out. Anywhere you simply don't understand something ask ZAC or the good folks on the Matronics List. 3) Decide on the engine you are going to use as early in the project as you can. This allows informed decisions to be made as you progress with the fuselage, especially the front end and the instrument panel. Order the firewall forward kit or at least get your engine mount in hand when building up the firewall. Build to fit, not just to dimensions. 4) When the kit arrives, do a thorough inventory ( check the actual thickness and size of the metal parts) and create a shelving/storage system identifying the location ( on what shelf - number or letter identity ) and write that location on the inventory sheet. You prevent misplacing parts that way! One Zenith specific item that I have seen cause trouble for builders and has resulted in cracks in attach fittings is the fit of the horizontal stabilizer to the aft fuselage. My suggestion is if you build the tail feathers first as many builders do, dont attach the forward vertical horizontal stabilizer attach fittings to the front stab. spar until the aft fuselage is made. Then you can locate the fittings where there is a great fit with no preload. I don't have a 601XL set of plans in front of me. Otherwise I would use part numbers here. An alternative is to make a jig or template to locate the fittings, but just make it to fit. I hope these few ideas will be of value to you as you start on the rewarding journey of building a nice airplane. do not archive Jim Hoak - 601HD - Rotax 912UL - 527 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Janicki To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:38 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL Hello All, I am new to this group and am planning to start building a CH601XL before the end of this year. With that said, I have been doing quite a bit of reading and made a phone call to Zenith to better understand the differences between the QB and Standard Kits. After my conversation with Sebastian I am leaning towards the Standard kit. My impression is that the standard kit will save me a fair sum of money and still provide features such as pilot holes on wing, fuselage and other surface skins. The difference in cost will also help towards my engine, avionics, paint funds. I also plan to start with the tail kit and build from components as I understand improvements to the kit are planned and I would like to take advantage of them if and when they are released. I live in Northern California (Redwood City to be exact) and plan to build in my garage in order to maximize my time availability. I have built in the past but never completed an aircraft primarily due to my desire to fly more than build. Fortunately I have most if not all of the tools I need to build having purchased them along the way durning my past building episodes. Now that I am older (and hopefully wiser) I have settled on the CH601XL and plan to take advantage being able to fly under LSA in the future as my flying needs have become more about enjoying an hour or two in the air vs. IFR, cross country flying, etc. I am also leaning on the Jabiru 3300 engine and a budget glass cockpit. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to getting started and completing the CH601XL! Regards, Steven ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:38 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Nope Dave, no photos attached... Randy XL Wings - Plans Only ----- Original Message ----- From: "TxDave" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" > > For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my > scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very > solid structure. Photos attached. > > Dave Clay > Temple, TX > Ch601XL Plans builder > http://www.daves601xl.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:26 AM PST US From: Mike Fothergill Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill HI; My HDS with a 912S requires a significant amount of right rudder on take-off but very little anytime after that. Mike CH-601HDS 1400+ hours Grant Corriveau wrote: > Hi Bill, > > I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the > movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my > aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably > there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day > ha ha.! ) > > The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll. > But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When I > pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how > much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full > power ops (climb out), to a significant amount of right pedal during > glides/approaches. (NOTE* You may need to reverse those left/right > indications for your engine - mine rotates counterclockwise as viewed > from the cockpit ;-) ... > > In summary, due to the short coupling of the airplane, definite rudder > inputs are required to counteract engine/prop tourque/effect etc... > Meanwhile, when rolling into turns there is mild adverse yaw requiring > only small rudder pressure. > > My conclusion about the 601 is that it is easy to fly, but challenging > to fly well, keeping all these various 'twitchys' to a minumum. > > fwiw, > Grant Corriveau > Nanaimo, B.C. > C-GHTF > > ================ > On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > >> From: "Bill Naumuk" > >> >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport >> >> >> Rick- >> >> Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was >> >> that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver. >> >> Bill Naumuk >> >> HDS Fuselage >> >> Townville, Pa >> > > ------------------------------- > grant.corriveau@telus.net > --------------------------------------- > The Wings Stayed On! > http://aluwings.blogspirit.com > --------------------------------------- > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:35 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL Welcome aboard. Carroll Jernigan do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:33 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's I haven't seen any reference to a "rudder trim tab" on the forum. Anyone want to weigh in? Terry Turnquist 601 XL Plans St. Peters, MO do not archive Grant Corriveau wrote: Hi Bill, I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day ha ha.! ) The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll. But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When I pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full power ops ...... fwiw, Grant Corriveau Nanaimo, B.C. C-GHTF ================ On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport Rick- Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:50 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Sorry Dave, It was my browser that wasn't displaying the images... My bad, sorry, Randy XL Wings - Plans Only Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "TxDave" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" > > For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my > scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very > solid structure. Photos attached. > > Dave Clay > Temple, TX > Ch601XL Plans builder > http://www.daves601xl.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH 640 Controls From: "moorecomp" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "moorecomp" Hello, I think Jeff Paden has the best pictures of the setup for the aileron controls. Go here: http://www.madbbs.com/~jpaden/fuselage/13-Fuselage-Hull-stage-1-part2/index10.html Best regards, Craig Moore A&P 701 builder wannabe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60412#60412 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:27 PM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren Robert: We tried a number of ways before contacting Trade-a-Plane. It took about two weeks and it was sold. Stan Sold 601 HDS Building 701 On Sep 8, 2006, at 11:12 AM, rwhall@telusplanet.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net > > > I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would > appreciate any > suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:38 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed - photos URLs below --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Not literaly attached - click the URLs given... (bottom of this thread) Carlos --- Randy Bryant a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" > > Nope Dave, no photos attached... > > Randy > XL Wings - Plans Only > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TxDave" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" > > > > For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my > > scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a very > > solid structure. Photos attached. > > > > Dave Clay > > Temple, TX > > Ch601XL Plans builder > > http://www.daves601xl.com > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:02 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's Grant, In my 701, I have taken videos out the front as well. On approach, I was surprised to see how much the nose moved back and forth in the video. I don't notice this myself during approach. If the video camera is zoomed in a bit, I think it might exaggerate the motion. I flew today with the camera aimed at the instrument panel. In cruise the turn and bank was fairly calm. But on approach it was active, I think we make corrections as needed without realizing it. You can sure tell when you are not coordinated. I only need rudder on take off. The right thrust takes care of cruise and no power is ok for approach. I need a bit more down thrust as the elevator trim changes a lot from cruise to approach. Chuck D. N701TX Jabiru 2200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Grant Corriveau To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's Hi Bill, I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day ha ha.! ) The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll. But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When I pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full power ops (climb out), to a significant amount of right pedal during glides/approaches. (NOTE* You may need to reverse those left/right indications for your engine - mine rotates counterclockwise as viewed from the cockpit ;-) ... In summary, due to the short coupling of the airplane, definite rudder inputs are required to counteract engine/prop tourque/effect etc... Meanwhile, when rolling into turns there is mild adverse yaw requiring only small rudder pressure. My conclusion about the 601 is that it is easy to fly, but challenging to fly well, keeping all these various 'twitchys' to a minumum. fwiw, Grant Corriveau Nanaimo, B.C. C-GHTF ================ On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport Rick- Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:05 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's I thought of this early in the game, and since I'm scratch building I could incorporate it fairly easily... I spoke to several A&P friends of mine and they said that rudder trim was installed on planes with larger engines, for the reason, I'm assuming P-Factor, and they went on to say that with the size engine and plane I was building that they didn't think rudder trim would be necessary... They said that maybe a bendable tab on the rudder after I was flying, but they'd steer away from an actual trim... Thanks, Randy XL Wings - Plans Only Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Turnquist To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's I haven't seen any reference to a "rudder trim tab" on the forum. Anyone want to weigh in? Terry Turnquist 601 XL Plans St. Peters, MO do not archive Grant Corriveau wrote: Hi Bill, I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (I'd say it is probably there alright, waiting to be 'outed' when I too mount a camera some day ha ha.! ) The airplane is easy to keep straight during takeoff and landing roll. But there is a very noticeable yaw reaction from thrust changes. When I pay close attention to the ball on the T&B, I'm surprised to see how much rudder "trim" is required, from a lot of left pedal during full power ops ...... fwiw, Grant Corriveau Nanaimo, B.C. C-GHTF ================ On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch airport Rick- Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- --> http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com =========== ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:28 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch built Spars --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Yes, it's a vixen. (This is a reference to a type of file, not to a foxy stripper from NAPA.) If you can't find a vixen file, try a laminate file. They are made for use on Formica-type laminates, but they do a good job on aluminum. George Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch built Spars > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger > > Check the archives regarding a special type of file - the name might be > a Vixen (somebody have the exact name?). It has curved ridges and > lightly rubbed against the line of rivet holes, takes a lot of the rough > stuff off. Then deburr in the normal manner with a drill point, etc. > Robert Schoenberger 701 > > VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/8/06 dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > > >> I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many holes. Any advice > >> you have to offer would be appreciated > > > > > > > > Start deburring! > > * > > > > > > * > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:47 PM PST US From: "Dan Forney" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Forney" Anytime that I talk to someone about the possibility of selling a homebuilt if or when I was ever unable to fly it, they always caution me against the thought due to possible liability lawsuits as the manufacturer. Anyone else ever worry about that when selling, or are there ways to protect yourself? -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stanley Challgren Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren Robert: We tried a number of ways before contacting Trade-a-Plane. It took about two weeks and it was sold. Stan Sold 601 HDS Building 701 On Sep 8, 2006, at 11:12 AM, rwhall@telusplanet.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net > > > I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would > appreciate any > suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:47 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale Robert, Barnstormers is the best aviation web site and adds are free unless you want to make a donation. I have used them and always make a donation after the sale. It's also a good idea to tell people where you are because there might be someone close who is looking for a Zenith/Zodiac aircraft to buy. http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHPSESSID=2ef94a86daa861b6da0186831 53522ef Bob Stone, Harker Heights ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:12 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net > > > I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would appreciate any > suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:55 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Randy, Just keep on scrolling down and you will find three web site address's (URL's) each one shows a different view of the center spar Dave is talking about. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Bryant" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" > > Nope Dave, no photos attached... > > Randy > XL Wings - Plans Only > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TxDave" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:26 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" >> >> For those of you who might be interested, I recently finished my >> scratch-built XL center spar. My hat's off to Chris H for designing a >> very solid structure. Photos attached. >> >> Dave Clay >> Temple, TX >> Ch601XL Plans builder >> http://www.daves601xl.com >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60392#60392 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_3_143.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_2_744.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/centerspar_1_329.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:43 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Gary- Same question I have put differently. How do you polish the 95% of the structure that looks good, but cover up the leading edge and wing tips (Which is where all the problems seem to occur) without affecting flight characteristics or removing painted trim? There's a C120 in this month's SA that's configured this way. Of course, there's no sense asking the owner, because the 120 was a rag wing. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 11:16 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" > > Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and > polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was > done? > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion > Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked". > There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing). > > As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type, > so > no prep would be > required either. > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > > --- Bill Naumuk a crit : > >> All- >> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane, > or just the painted >> trim sections? >> do not archive >> Bill Naumuk >> HDS Fuselage >> Townville, Pa > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:20 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Chris- Twin etch. Thanks. I live 56 miles from a NAPA store, but only 3 when you figure I commute 53 to work, and that's in the city where the store is located. If I'd received a straight answer from the list yesterday, I could have picked up what I needed on my lunch break. Now I have to either drive 100+ miles or wait until Monday and modify my building schedule. I'm as big an offender as anyone else, but remember people, the site is supposed to be used for helping fellow builders. Archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris In Madison" Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 9:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" > > Hi Bill, > >>From a reply to your "White Corrosion" post from yesterday: > > > NAPA carries a Martin-Senour product called "Twin Etch". > > > Best regards, > Chris > > -------- > Chris Owens > Waunakee, WI > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60279#60279 > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:47 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" Bill, Sorry, I didn't mean to re-phrase your question as you were quite clear, but I asked this of the list over a week ago and nobody had a response. Just thought I'd try again, on top of your question. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, wings done, working on c-section Gary- Same question I have put differently. How do you polish the 95% of the structure that looks good, but cover up the leading edge and wing tips (Which is where all the problems seem to occur) without affecting flight characteristics or removing painted trim? There's a C120 in this month's SA that's configured this way. Of course, there's no sense asking the owner, because the 120 was a rag wing. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 11:16 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" > > Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and > polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was > done? > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion > Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked". > There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing). > > As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type, > so > no prep would be > required either. > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > > --- Bill Naumuk a crit : > >> All- >> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane, > or just the painted >> trim sections? >> do not archive >> Bill Naumuk >> HDS Fuselage >> Townville, Pa > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:23 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's All- I don't think rudder trim is the solution, either. It would seem from a geometrical perspective that an increase in the width of the rudder bellcrank would calm things down. By width, I mean the distance between the control cable attachment (Unless, of course, there are other aerodynamic factors at work.) You'd pay a minute penalty in drag from the additional metal hanging in the wind, but is it worth it? While it's obviously evident in the video, it's not evident to people closer to the CG. I was in the back seat of an A-36 Bonanza and the Dutch Roll was so bad you wanted to puke. 2' each way on each oscillation. The guys up front didn't beleive me until they sat in the back. Dutch roll can't improve performance and fuel consumption. Unfortunately, changing the geometry of a bellcrank is a major (And to be avoided) airframe modification. I don't know who else to contact. Mark (Zodie)- can you kick this question upstairs? Thanks. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Grant Corriveau To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's Hi Bill, I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie clip too. ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Gary- Cripes, don't apologize- you didn't step on my toes. Just seems like it takes forever to get a straight answer from the list lately. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" > > Bill, > > Sorry, I didn't mean to re-phrase your question as you were quite clear, > but > I asked this of the list over a week ago and nobody had a response. Just > thought I'd try again, on top of your question. > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion > Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > > Gary- > Same question I have put differently. > How do you polish the 95% of the structure that looks good, but cover > up the leading edge and wing tips (Which is where all the problems seem to > occur) without affecting flight characteristics or removing painted trim? > There's a C120 in this month's SA that's configured this way. Of course, > there's no sense asking the owner, because the 120 was a rag wing. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Boothe" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 11:16 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" >> >> Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and >> polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was >> done? >> >> Gary Boothe >> Cool, CA >> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion >> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section >> >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa >> >> Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked". >> There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing). >> >> As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type, >> so >> no prep would be >> required either. >> >> Carlos >> CH601-HD, plans >> >> --- Bill Naumuk a crit : >> >>> All- >>> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane, >> or just the painted >>> trim sections? >>> do not archive >>> Bill Naumuk >>> HDS Fuselage >>> Townville, Pa >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:48 PM PST US From: David Wright Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Center Spar Completed - solid riveter design > Dave / List Members > > > Thanks for the off list reply another amazing invention! > I tried the ch601.org rivet / dimpler design and am having trouble > lining up the cup head with the striking bar. My inept attempt have > so far cost me =A370 - your $15 design looks good. I will try it > tomorrow I would have attached the .pdf file with the full description of the device - but it is too big for the list. Could you post it on your web site so that everyone can have sight of it > > Dave > 601XL - Scratchbuild wings > Washington UK > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Dave and Jan Clay >> Date: 8 September 2006 23:30:19 BDT >> To: davidhwright@mac.com >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Spar Completed >> >> >> Hello David, >> >> I've been using a drill bit to deburr. I was hoping someone might >> suggest a more elegant method. Maybe there isn't one. >> >> Like you, I had no experience with solid rivets. I had built this >> up in my mind as a terribly difficult task. I constructed this >> little rivet setting device. It works amazingly well. All but one >> of my rivets turned out close to perfect. I was able to do the >> entire center spar in less than 45 minutes. >> >> The secret is to just align the punch by hand. The device just >> acts like a third hand to support the punch. It really could not >> have been easier. I was very pleased with the results. >> >> Thanks for your input on the deburring. Hope I've helped with your >> solid rivet issue. >> >> Dave Clay >> Temple, TX >> http://www.daves601xl.com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get the new Windows Live Messenger! http://imagine-msn.com/ >> messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:17 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" Sorry Bill, IF I had known the answer about the part/stripper I would have included it in my post. BUT in trying times, humor can relive stress. BUT when one lays out a straight line like that one, There are those of us that will pounce on it. Remember: When you are 90% complete, there's still 90% to go.. KABONG Do Not Archive this either. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Naumuk" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:09 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's I honestly believe that no change is necessary, in flight the rudder acts as it should and as noted your turn and bank hardly move with only a small pressure to help in your coordinated turns. On approach we all (well not all but I=92m just as guilty) seem to do the two step all over the rudder pedals, now this is normal and with such a big rudder we tend to go back and forth just for something to do. But when it comes to cross wind landings we all know that the Zodiac and 701 handle far far more then most others planes of the same size, this is also due to the rudder=92s ability, it has a lot to do without having a vertical stabilizer. Of which I believe is a golden point of our planes. So for something that cannot be perceived in the last couple minutes of flight by the pilot and passenger, playing with the geometry of the rudder is unwarranted. Simply put, to gain so little on a small part of our flight we would sacrifice to much on a large part of our adventure and in the safety of our chosen bird. Nevertheless, to each their own, when I fly with seasoned 601 owners I don=92t notice and tail wag but new owners are a different story. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's All- I don't think rudder trim is the solution, either. It would seem from a geometrical perspective that an increase in the width of the rudder bellcrank would calm things down. By width, I mean the distance between the control cable attachment (Unless, of course, there are other aerodynamic factors at work.) You'd pay a minute penalty in drag from the additional metal hanging in the wind, but is it worth it? While it's obviously evident in the video, it's not evident to people closer to the CG. I was in the back seat of an A-36 Bonanza and the Dutch Roll was so bad you wanted to puke. 2' each way on each oscillation. The guys up front didn't beleive me until they sat in the back. Dutch roll can't improve performance and fuel consumption. Unfortunately, changing the geometry of a bellcrank is a major (And to be avoided) airframe modification. I don't know who else to contact. Mark (Zodie)- can you kick this question upstairs? Thanks. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET"Grant Corriveau "mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com"zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's Hi Bill, I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie clip too. ------------------------------- HYPERLINK "mailto:grant.corriveau@telus.net"grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! HYPERLINK "http://aluwings.blogspirit.com"http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion -- -- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:42 PM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Zenith-List: Video Camera mount ----- Original Message ----- From: >> > Please email the photo to the least so all can see how to mount the > camera. > Thanks > Jerry > HDS 912S Got out to the hangar this afternoon and shot a couple pics of that mount. It's a piece of .063 6061-T6 (10" X 3") with the edges bent for stiffness. I bolted on a stainless steel Adel clamp that just clips over the bows in the front of the turtledeck. There's one bolt at the back that holds it on, but I plan on changing that over to a camlock for quick installation and removal. Had to add a stiffner top and bottom to take out the springiness, otherwise the camera bobbed up and down too much in turbs. Ain't real pretty, but it seems to work OK. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Welcome to the wonderful land of home building. One other option that I took is scratch building. Zenith has good detailed drawings and that is going to save me more money, and keep me busy for longer. Everything is a trade off one way or the other. I am having so much fun, hope you do too. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60490#60490 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:01 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's Thanks, Mark, for your quick response. If the movement doesn't occur in cruise flight as it did in the A36 I spoke of, no big deal. A definite PIA if it does. Maybe some cruise photos could be taken with, say, a road for reference. The movement has probably been going on since day 1. No one could see it until digital camcorders came around. Once again, no big deal, but an opportunity for improvement. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Zodie Rocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:39 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's I honestly believe that no change is necessary, in flight the rudder acts as it should and as noted your turn and bank hardly move with only a small pressure to help in your coordinated turns. On approach we all (well not all but I=92m just as guilty) seem to do the two step all over the rudder pedals, now this is normal and with such a big rudder we tend to go back and forth just for something to do. But when it comes to cross wind landings we all know that the Zodiac and 701 handle far far more then most others planes of the same size, this is also due to the rudder=92s ability, it has a lot to do without having a vertical stabilizer. Of which I believe is a golden point of our planes. So for something that cannot be perceived in the last couple minutes of flight by the pilot and passenger, playing with the geometry of the rudder is unwarranted. Simply put, to gain so little on a small part of our flight we would sacrifice to much on a large part of our adventure and in the safety of our chosen bird. Nevertheless, to each their own, when I fly with seasoned 601 owners I don=92t notice and tail wag but new owners are a different story. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:35 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's All- I don't think rudder trim is the solution, either. It would seem from a geometrical perspective that an increase in the width of the rudder bellcrank would calm things down. By width, I mean the distance between the control cable attachment (Unless, of course, there are other aerodynamic factors at work.) You'd pay a minute penalty in drag from the additional metal hanging in the wind, but is it worth it? While it's obviously evident in the video, it's not evident to people closer to the CG. I was in the back seat of an A-36 Bonanza and the Dutch Roll was so bad you wanted to puke. 2' each way on each oscillation. The guys up front didn't beleive me until they sat in the back. Dutch roll can't improve performance and fuel consumption. Unfortunately, changing the geometry of a bellcrank is a major (And to be avoided) airframe modification. I don't know who else to contact. Mark (Zodie)- can you kick this question upstairs? Thanks. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Grant Corriveau To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's Hi Bill, I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in the movie clip too. ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - --> - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> -- 9/8/2006 -- 9/8/2006 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:00 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" John- I know, I left myself open. Maybe we ought to have a code for when we're serious and when we're not. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN STARN" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" > > Sorry Bill, IF I had known the answer about the part/stripper I would have > included it in my post. > BUT in trying times, humor can relive stress. > BUT when one lays out a straight line like that one, There are those of us > that will pounce on it. > Remember: When you are 90% complete, there's still 90% to go.. > KABONG Do Not Archive this either. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Naumuk" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:45 PM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Zenith-List: Another Youtube video of Zodiac at Fox Field (KWJF) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Austin" > Re these videos.. > How do I download these videos as a file and store on the PC? > Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII I just found Youtube a couple of days ago and don't know how to download and save. Here's another video of a high and fast landing at Fox Field http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tljAPJ328 I'll put a larger filesize version at http://www.lightflyers.com/kwjf.mpg that you can download and save. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:17 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL Hi Steven, Welcome aboard. I am also building a 601XL and plan to use a Jabiru 3300 along with one of the lower end EFIS units. I think I may end up with one of the newer combined units from Dynon that has both flight instrumentation and engine monitoring functions as well. Since my wife is also a Pilot, I may put one of those units on each side of the panel to allow for switching which side the pilot operates from. For now my only contribution to the instrument panel is a Lift Reserve Indicator I made while waiting for the long lead time on the wing kit. I am also building from the standard kit. The quick-build kit wasn't available when I started about 15 months ago. I tend to work on my plane every day but only for an hour or two. I am well into the fuselage and have completed the wings and tail section. I had to build three wings since I messed up the first one - something to do with the alignment of the nose skin. If I were to do it again I would still use the standard kit. I enjoy building, but I don't want to go crazy trying to figure out how to make 12 foot long bends in sheet metal or spend a lot of time making wing ribs or welding. I am happy to pay ZAC for those specialized efforts as well as the hunting down of proper materials. That makes me a poor candidate for scratch building, and I agree with you that I would rather do the building myself than pay for some "Outsourced" building of the basic structure which I believe is how the quick-build kits are done. I have found ZAC does a great job of supplying the correct materials and the cutting and bending seems quite good. I wish I could say such nice things about the pre-drilled holes in some of the parts. They may have improved recently with the new equipment, but I doubt the whole process has been changed enough to make the pilot holes work out well. I think the problem is they drill pilot holes in the wing skin (for example) but the builder locates and drills all the holes for the ribs and rear channel. That means the holes in the skin are not specific to the exact position of the ribs and rear channel. This is not a show stopper, I found by several trials I could minimize the "Error" in the pilot hole positions and wind up with a perfectly acceptable wing. It just is not as easy as you might think having the pilot holes done at the factory. (Indeed when I reordered parts for the third wing I needed I got the wing skins undrilled. That worked out better for me than having the pilot holes in places that didn't match my ribs.) My last comment is this email list is a great resource for me and I am sure you will find it valuable too. There are many posts that are best ignored, but every now and then there is a real jewel which makes the whole process worthwhile. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage At 09:38 AM 9/8/2006, you wrote: >Hello All, > >I am new to this group and am planning to start building a CH601XL >before the end of this year. > >With that said, I have been doing quite a bit of reading and made a >phone call to Zenith to better understand the differences between >the QB and Standard Kits. > >After my conversation with Sebastian I am leaning towards the >Standard kit. My impression is that the standard kit will save me a >fair sum of money and still provide features such as pilot holes on >wing, fuselage and other surface skins. The difference in cost will >also help towards my engine, avionics, paint funds. > >I also plan to start with the tail kit and build from components as >I understand improvements to the kit are planned and I would like to >take advantage of them if and when they are released. > >I live in Northern California (Redwood City to be exact) and plan to >build in my garage in order to maximize my time availability. I have >built in the past but never completed an aircraft primarily due to >my desire to fly more than build. Fortunately I have most if not all >of the tools I need to build having purchased them along the way >durning my past building episodes. > >Now that I am older (and hopefully wiser) I have settled on the >CH601XL and plan to take advantage being able to fly under LSA in >the future as my flying needs have become more about enjoying an >hour or two in the air vs. IFR, cross country flying, etc. > >I am also leaning on the Jabiru 3300 engine and a budget glass >cockpit. > >Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to >getting started and completing the CH601XL! > >Regards, > >Steven > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:16 PM PST US From: J2j3h4@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stripper (Fluff) I think her name was Shayna. :) Jim DO NOT ARCHIVE In a message dated 9/7/2006 6:42:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, naumuk@alltel.net writes: All- Screwed up with my files somewhere. Mea culpa! What was the name of the stripper available from NAPA? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage (Progress in quicksand) Townville, Pa (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:57 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper (Humor - Erase now if you don't want a chuckle) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL I got this story today via email. Erase if you don't want to laugh: A man and his ever-nagging wife went on vacation to Jerusalem. While they were there, the wife passed away. The undertaker told the husband, "You can have her shipped home for $5,000, or you can bury her here, in the Holy Land, for $150." The man thought about it and told him he would just have her shipped home. The undertaker asked, "Why would you spend $5,000 to ship your wife home, when it would be wonderful to be buried here and you would spend only $150?" The man replied, "Long ago a man died here, was buried here, and three days later he rose from the dead. I just can't take that chance." Scott Laughlin Working on engine Cowl http://www.cooknwithgas.com/9_2_06_Intake5.JPG --- Bill Naumuk wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > > John- > I know, I left myself open. Maybe we ought to > have a code for when we're > serious and when we're not. > Bill Naumuk __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:10 PM PST US From: Rmtnview@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 701 sub kits Might anyone know of unworked 701 sub kits for sale? By unworked, I mean that haven't been started yet. Thanks ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:21 PM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing Gary, If your question is how to polish there are many commercial products available. The one I used was Nuvite, they have a display every year up at Osh. As I may have all ready said on this list I found the "secret" to polishing especially "old" several years, aluminum was to first wet the aluminum with mineral spirits (paint thinner) then use the Nuvite. I don't think I spent any more time polishing then I would to prep and paint the airplane. What I like is if there is some part I don't think is good enough or has gotten damaged I can just rebuff it and I never have to worry about matching the color. Tim Shankland Gary Boothe wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" > >Early model C180's and Beech Bonanza's were a combination of paint and >polished aluminum. Does anyone have any ideas how, or know how, that was >done? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >601 HDSTD, WW Conversion >Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > >Bill, the polished aircraft I have seen are totaly "naked". >There is no prep, only polishing paste and, sometimes wax (I'm guessing). > >As for the trim, I presume these days most people use the adhesive type, so >no prep would be >required either. > >Carlos >CH601-HD, plans > >--- Bill Naumuk a crit : > > > >>All- >> If you decide to polish, do you still have to prep the entire plane, >> >> >or just the painted > > >>trim sections? >> do not archive >>Bill Naumuk >>HDS Fuselage >>Townville, Pa >> >> > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:47 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe wires. I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on my 801. Any reasons for or against? Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:39 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires. Hi Dave, That wouldn't work very well on a 601, but I don't know about the 801. The 601 has fuel tanks on the inboard half of the nose rib area. They would get in the way of the strobe wires. One question: Will you install the power supplies for the strobes at the wing tips or in the fuselage? If you are running the wires that connect the power supplies to the actual strobe lamps all the way down the length of the wings, I would recommend shielding them. That means putting them in a conductive sleeve of some sort with one end (probably the fuselage end) grounded to the frame and the other end floating electrically. The idea is to keep the high voltage impulses away from your radios and antennas. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage At 09:13 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote: >I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on >my 801. Any reasons for or against? > >Dave in Salem >801 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:43 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires. Hi Paul, I have 2 tanks per wing and they are located behind the main spar. There is nothing between the leading edge of the spar and the nose skin except a lot of room. I am mounting the strobe power supplies to the spar tips and running the strobe and nav light wires through the wing to a switch. I think I will also run a ground wire along with them instead of grounding to the wing structure. I don't know if it makes any difference, but it's easy to do at this stage and it can't hurt anything. I'm always curious how other people do things and this is a good group to pick up a lot of useful information. Thanks for the input. Dave in Salem 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:56 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires. Hi Dave, That wouldn't work very well on a 601, but I don't know about the 801. The 601 has fuel tanks on the inboard half of the nose rib area. They would get in the way of the strobe wires. One question: Will you install the power supplies for the strobes at the wing tips or in the fuselage? If you are running the wires that connect the power supplies to the actual strobe lamps all the way down the length of the wings, I would recommend shielding them. That means putting them in a conductive sleeve of some sort with one end (probably the fuselage end) grounded to the frame and the other end floating electrically. The idea is to keep the high voltage impulses away from your radios and antennas. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage At 09:13 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote: I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on my 801. Any reasons for or against? Dave in Salem 801 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:25 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Paul, I read your post and I think I noticed that you drill holes in your ribs then matched them up to the outer skin? Here is how I do that operation: Pilot drill the skin first. Draw lines on the ribs where the holes should go Insert ribs and line up the lines through the holes in the skin. Drill one hole through rib, add cleco (start with the silver) Go to the next rib and repeat paying paticular attention to keeping the skin tight to the ribs. Tip: you may need to stick a pointy tool in one hole to line up the one you want to drill. FWIW -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60534#60534