Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Strobe wires. (Roger Venables)
2. 03:21 AM - Re: Strobe wires. (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 03:33 AM - Re: Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 03:54 AM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Clive Richards)
5. 04:07 AM - Re: Re: Scratch built Spars (Monty Graves)
6. 05:30 AM - 601Corvair Exhaust, intake, carb, Dinwiddie VA (601corvair)
7. 05:44 AM - Re: Strobe wires. (Noel Loveys)
8. 06:06 AM - Re: Strobe wires. (Noel Loveys)
9. 06:10 AM - Re: Strobe wires. (Robert L. Stone)
10. 06:22 AM - Re: Video Camera mount (Edward Moody II)
11. 06:58 AM - Re: Another Youtube video of Zodiac at Fox Field (KWJF) (Bill Naumuk)
12. 07:16 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Garrou, Douglas)
13. 07:40 AM - Re: Polishing (Bill Naumuk)
14. 07:41 AM - Strobe Wires (Clyde Barcus)
15. 07:51 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Bryan Martin)
16. 08:18 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Jeff)
17. 08:20 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Edward Moody II)
18. 08:38 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Jack Russell)
19. 10:39 AM - Rudder twitchy's (Grant Corriveau)
20. 10:40 AM - YouTube (Grant Corriveau)
21. 11:02 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Robert L. Stone)
22. 11:20 AM - Re: Rudder twitchy's (Bill Naumuk)
23. 11:29 AM - Re: YouTube (John Marzulli)
24. 11:36 AM - Re: Polishing (Tim & Diane Shankland)
25. 11:54 AM - Craftsman Drill Press sale (lwinger)
26. 03:22 PM - Steering rod seal (Jaybannist@cs.com)
27. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Paul Moore)
28. 04:09 PM - Re: Polishing (Bill Naumuk)
29. 04:37 PM - Re: Strobe wires. (Frank Stutzman)
30. 05:42 PM - Re: Steering rod seal (N5SL)
31. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (Bill Naumuk)
32. 05:50 PM - Re: Craftsman Drill Press sale (Gary Boothe)
33. 06:36 PM - Re: Steering rod seal (Jaybannist@cs.com)
34. 06:39 PM - Re: Polishing (Tim & Diane Shankland)
35. 06:53 PM - Re: Steering rod seal (Tim & Diane Shankland)
36. 06:59 PM - Re: Steering rod seal Trying again with attachments (Tim & Diane Shankland)
37. 07:09 PM - Re: Steering rod seal (Craig Payne)
38. 07:13 PM - Re: Steering rod seal (Robin Bellach)
39. 07:29 PM - Re: Steering rod seal (Lee Thomas)
40. 08:07 PM - Re: Craftsman Drill Press sale (Bill Naumuk)
41. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Stripper (NYTerminat@aol.com)
42. 08:49 PM - Re: Craftsman Drill Press sale (NYTerminat@aol.com)
43. 10:04 PM - Soon to be 601XL Builder - Thanks for advice / responses (Steven Janicki)
Message 1
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Dave
I am building a 701 just to the north of you and went through the same set
of questions with the strobes before I finished my wings
The advice that made the most sense to me was to mount the power supplies in
the fuselage (behind the seats in the 701) and run shielded cable from here
out to the strobes on the wing tips
This has 2 main advantages, 1. it makes it easier to maintain/replace the
power supplies, and 2. it takes the weight out of the wing tips and puts it
lower down in the fuselage
I called Aeroflash in Chicago and they were perfectly happy with this and
supplied me with the shielded cable. I will be using Molex connectors at the
wing root and the short piece of exposed wiring at the connector is also no
problem, so they tell me as long as I also connect the shielding. As Paul
says, ground the power supply side of the shielded cable, not the outboard
end
I have been following your project with interest
Roger
701, busy on flaps and slats
Kenmore, WA
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
Hi Paul,
I have 2 tanks per wing and they are located behind the main spar. There is
nothing between the leading edge of the spar and the nose skin except a lot
of room. I am mounting the strobe power supplies to the spar tips and
running the strobe and nav light wires through the wing to a switch. I think
I will also run a ground wire along with them instead of grounding to the
wing structure. I don't know if it makes any difference, but it's easy to do
at this stage and it can't hurt anything. I'm always curious how other
people do things and this is a good group to pick up a lot of useful
information.
Thanks for the input.
Dave in Salem
801
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul <mailto:p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> Mulwitz
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
Hi Dave,
That wouldn't work very well on a 601, but I don't know about the 801. The
601 has fuel tanks on the inboard half of the nose rib area. They would get
in the way of the strobe wires.
One question: Will you install the power supplies for the strobes at the
wing tips or in the fuselage? If you are running the wires that connect the
power supplies to the actual strobe lamps all the way down the length of the
wings, I would recommend shielding them. That means putting them in a
conductive sleeve of some sort with one end (probably the fuselage end)
grounded to the frame and the other end floating electrically. The idea is
to keep the high voltage impulses away from your radios and antennas.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 09:13 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on my 801.
Any reasons for or against?
Dave in Salem
801
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe wires. |
Hi Dave,
I chose the other route for the ground path. I am using the wing
skin and structure for the ground return path for the strobe
supplies. I also chose not to use any paint on my internal joints
for corrosion control, so I have a really nice electrical connection
between all the structural parts. Aluminum is not as good a
conductor as copper or silver, but there is so much of it I think it
should make a superb ground path. To prevent radio noise, I intend
to run a heavy copper ground wire from the common ground point near
the engine to the instrument panel.
I realize this is a controversial approach, but I am reminded of a
popular saying from the designer of the MiniMax I built about 20
years ago. His comment was -- if you are thinking of adding anything
to the structure, try throwing it up in the air. If it comes back
down, it is too heavy.
Given the location of your fuel tanks, the nose area of the wing
sounds like a perfect place to route the wires. The next question is
whether to install some sort of conduit for them or route the wires
through the nose ribs using grommets or some sort of trellis in the
lightening holes.
I chose to skip the conduit (see the test above) and used lacing tape
to bind the wires together. The idea is to keep the wires reasonably
tightly suspended so they don't rattle around when flying in bumpy
air. I had a hard time doing this until I discovered lacing
tape. It is like dental floss but a bit larger and covered with a
lot of wax. The method I found worked best for me was to route the
bundle through a rubber grommet and tie it on both sides of the rib
through a hole drilled next to the grommet - perhaps 1/4" from the
rubber. The resulting "U' shaped cord seems to do a good job of
holding the bundle in place. The lacing tape is available from AS&S
and is the only stuff I have found that actually sticks (a little) to
the Tefzel insulation on aircraft grade wire. The alternative of
using nylon cable ties seems good until you discover that the wire
just slips right through the tightly pulled ties -- making it
impossible to really fix the wire bundle in place.
One other thing I decided to do was install connectors on all the
wires at the wing root. This allows removal of the wing without
cutting the wires. I opted for automotive spade connectors with
nylon covers and use a little more of the lacing tape to tie the
connectors together to make sure they don't slip apart. I have heard
some people say not to use automotive connectors, but I have no idea why not.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:32 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Paul,
>
>I have 2 tanks per wing and they are located behind the main spar.
>There is nothing between the leading edge of the spar and the nose
>skin except a lot of room. I am mounting the strobe power supplies
>to the spar tips and running the strobe and nav light wires through
>the wing to a switch. I think I will also run a ground wire along
>with them instead of grounding to the wing structure. I don't know
>if it makes any difference, but it's easy to do at this stage and it
>can't hurt anything. I'm always curious how other people do things
>and this is a good group to pick up a lot of useful information.
>Thanks for the input.
>
>Dave in Salem
>801
>
-
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New to the Group - Plan to Build CH601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Ron,
I use a similar approach for attaching the skin. The only difference
is I mark the center of the rib flanges first and transfer the lines
to set to locations of the pilot holes in the skin.
The problem I tried to describe is related to the fact that the ribs
are attached to the spar and rear channel using "Random"
alignment. That means the actual location of each end of each rib
varies a few mm from the "Ideal" location. The holes drilled in the
skin at the factory cannot allow for this randomness in the rib
locations, so the pilot holes don't really line up exactly with the
flanges on the ribs.
The issue is getting good edge distance on all the holes at the same
time. I found that a trial fitting of the skin to the skeleton
allows measuring the distance from the pre-drilled rivet lines and
the lines marked on the rib flanges. After a little study it is
possible to find an ideal offset from the marked lines to the
pre-drilled skin so none of the rivets violates the edge distance
rules. That means a small percentage of the rivets are actually on
the lines marked on the rib flanges, but it all works out OK.
I'm afraid this is one of those issues where a picture would work a
lot better than words. Alas, I didn't take the pictures at the time
and my wings are all closed up now.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 11:51 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
>Paul,
>
>I read your post and I think I noticed that you drill holes in your ribs
>then matched them up to the outer skin?
>
>Here is how I do that operation:
>
>Pilot drill the skin first.
>
>Draw lines on the ribs where the holes should go
>
>Insert ribs and line up the lines through the holes in the skin.
>
>Drill one hole through rib, add cleco (start with the silver)
>
>Go to the next rib and repeat paying paticular attention to keeping
>the skin tight to the ribs.
>
>Tip: you may need to stick a pointy tool in one hole to line up the
>one you want to drill.
>
>FWIW
>
>--------
>Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
>Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
Hi list
I agree with Grants Comments
I have been doing a large number of Tuch & Go's to get the landings
correct in Rays 601hd Continental 0 200 and have not noticed a problem
with the rudder. I just need to get the speed & flare correct for a
good landing as the pich is very sensitive.
We did however have to fit a fixed rudder trim tab which now allows
hands off at cruse.
----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Corriveau
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
Hi Bill,
I fly a 601HDS with CAM100 (Honda conversion). I noticed the yaw in
the movie clip too. I must say I've never noticed it while flying my
aircraft, but then I wasn't looking for it. (.
My conclusion about the 601 is that it is easy to fly, but challenging
to fly well, keeping all these various 'twitchys' to a minumum.
fwiw,
Grant Corriveau
Nanaimo, B.C.
C-GHTF
================
On 7-Sep-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Youtube video of Zodiac at Brian Ranch
airport
Rick-
Rudder input looked pretty twitchy. Is it that sensitive, or was
that PIO? Gotta remember, I'm a C-172 driver.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built Spars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
use a short vixen file or a dog leg de burr tool.. I prefer the
latter, to each his own.
http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=118&Category=25
Its item number14031 if the link doesn't work
http://www.yardstore.com
Monty
At 07:51 AM 9/8/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
>Hey Terry,
>
>I was the guy making the inquiry about scratch building spars. Thanks for
>sharing the photo. I'm to the point of deburring all those many, many
>holes. Any advice you have to offer would be appreciated.
>
>Dave Clay
>Temple, Texas
>Ch601XL Scratch Builder
>
>http://www.daves601xl.com
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60357#60357
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | 601Corvair Exhaust, intake, carb, Dinwiddie VA |
Hello all:
I am hoping someone can help me with a potential issue. We are months/years
away from making noise with our Corvair and still collecting material/parts.
We like to make as much as we can and have found the drawing, updates and materials
list in WW manual excellent. With the exception of stuff Weve bought
from Clarks my partner and I have scratch built about every thing, usually using
WW plans. We have taken a break from the engine and are working on the airframe.
Just for a change of pace ( and the hope of finding a reasonable MA3 to
rebuild). Our 601 HDS has several modifications which we will not share until
we have flown behind it. Some of the modifications will require alteration
in the exhaust and intake rigging. It would help us out greatly to get a measured
drawing and materials list for the 3 inch exhaust stubs. We wont need them
for sometime but I see that WW has discontinued this item, so I must buy
them now ahead of schedule while the supply
lasts, or be confident we can make them later. Getting the drawings would increase
my confidence. We have access to a machine shop with large presses, so
I think we can make it ourselves and then weld them to additional tubes when
we fit the final instillation. Any info on intake manifolds would also be helpful.
If you want to respond off list I can be reached at:
airvair601 at yahoo.com
Or
phartigatmindspring.com
Thanks phill.
Ps. Any 601 HDS guys going to be at Dinwiddie Sept 30?
---------------------------------
Message 7
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the DC wires for the nav lights won't require the shielding. If you use
the
shielded wire for that application you may add a few ounces to your
plane.
Obviously you are aware the wires to the strobe lights themselves are
another ball of wax. Grounding the shielding at one end only, usually
the
inboard end, is a common avionics practice. That practice will even be
carried to the much shorter interconnects between various radios, audio
panels and display indicators.
I think the important thing with wires running through the wings is to
make
sure the wires are supported properly in cushion clamps so they can't
interfere with any flight controls or rub against any structural
members.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
Venables
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:45 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
Dave
I am building a 701 just to the north of you and went through the same
set
of questions with the strobes before I finished my wings
The advice that made the most sense to me was to mount the power
supplies in
the fuselage (behind the seats in the 701) and run shielded cable from
here
out to the strobes on the wing tips
This has 2 main advantages, 1. it makes it easier to maintain/replace
the
power supplies, and 2. it takes the weight out of the wing tips and puts
it
lower down in the fuselage
I called Aeroflash in Chicago and they were perfectly happy with this
and
supplied me with the shielded cable. I will be using Molex connectors at
the
wing root and the short piece of exposed wiring at the connector is also
no
problem, so they tell me as long as I also connect the shielding. As
Paul
says, ground the power supply side of the shielded cable, not the
outboard
end
I have been following your project with interest
Roger
701, busy on flaps and slats
Kenmore, WA
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Ruddiman
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
Hi Paul,
I have 2 tanks per wing and they are located behind the main spar. There
is
nothing between the leading edge of the spar and the nose skin except a
lot
of room. I am mounting the strobe power supplies to the spar tips and
running the strobe and nav light wires through the wing to a switch. I
think
I will also run a ground wire along with them instead of grounding to
the
wing structure. I don't know if it makes any difference, but it's easy
to do
at this stage and it can't hurt anything. I'm always curious how other
people do things and this is a good group to pick up a lot of useful
information.
Thanks for the input.
Dave in Salem
801
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz <mailto:p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
Hi Dave,
That wouldn't work very well on a 601, but I don't know about the 801.
The
601 has fuel tanks on the inboard half of the nose rib area. They would
get
in the way of the strobe wires.
One question: Will you install the power supplies for the strobes at
the
wing tips or in the fuselage? If you are running the wires that connect
the
power supplies to the actual strobe lamps all the way down the length of
the
wings, I would recommend shielding them. That means putting them in a
conductive sleeve of some sort with one end (probably the fuselage end)
grounded to the frame and the other end floating electrically. The idea
is
to keep the high voltage impulses away from your radios and antennas.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 09:13 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on my
801.
Any reasons for or against?
Dave in Salem
801
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 8
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The guy who first thought of using nylon wire ties should be flogged
severely with a wet cod fish!
Unless the ends of these ties have been properly sanded after the excess
has
been removed, they are the worst hand gashing items ever inflicted on
aircraft. So far I haven't heard of any one being sliced open by waxed
string. It may take a bit longer to install but for the application it
works a lot better. For heavier applications use Coraseal... its
heavier
and can stretch to keep things nice and taught.
As for using the aircraft skin for a ground shield nope.... no way ....
nada. the skin will form a huge capacitor with the positive charged
wires
running through it. This is why shielded wire is only grounded at one
end.
They say for metal to corrode two things are required; two dissimilar
metals
and moisture ( salt water makes a better electrolyte). But you may have
noticed how the battery terminals on your car will corrode unless they
are
covered with a good quality of grease. What do you think will happen
when
you attach copper wires to a nice aluminium skin and run a current
through
it and then to top things off go playing in the clouds??? A better
idea...
use a shielded wire grounded at one end only or for a DC current like
the
nav lights a two conductor cable.
There are places where an aircraft frame, like that of a car will
provide a
common ground. Usually that occurs in the 4130 steel sub frames of many
planes. even when this is done extra grounding straps are usually
installed
to supply current to high drain devices like starting motors.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
Hi Dave,
I chose the other route for the ground path. I am using the wing skin
and
structure for the ground return path for the strobe supplies. I also
chose
not to use any paint on my internal joints for corrosion control, so I
have
a really nice electrical connection between all the structural parts.
Aluminum is not as good a conductor as copper or silver, but there is so
much of it I think it should make a superb ground path. To prevent
radio
noise, I intend to run a heavy copper ground wire from the common ground
point near the engine to the instrument panel.
I realize this is a controversial approach, but I am reminded of a
popular
saying from the designer of the MiniMax I built about 20 years ago. His
comment was -- if you are thinking of adding anything to the structure,
try
throwing it up in the air. If it comes back down, it is too heavy.
Given the location of your fuel tanks, the nose area of the wing sounds
like
a perfect place to route the wires. The next question is whether to
install
some sort of conduit for them or route the wires through the nose ribs
using
grommets or some sort of trellis in the lightening holes.
I chose to skip the conduit (see the test above) and used lacing tape to
bind the wires together. The idea is to keep the wires reasonably
tightly
suspended so they don't rattle around when flying in bumpy air. I had
a
hard time doing this until I discovered lacing tape. It is like dental
floss but a bit larger and covered with a lot of wax. The method I
found
worked best for me was to route the bundle through a rubber grommet and
tie
it on both sides of the rib through a hole drilled next to the grommet -
perhaps 1/4" from the rubber. The resulting "U' shaped cord seems to do
a
good job of holding the bundle in place. The lacing tape is available
from
AS&S and is the only stuff I have found that actually sticks (a little)
to
the Tefzel insulation on aircraft grade wire. The alternative of using
nylon cable ties seems good until you discover that the wire just slips
right through the tightly pulled ties -- making it impossible to really
fix
the wire bundle in place.
One other thing I decided to do was install connectors on all the wires
at
the wing root. This allows removal of the wing without cutting the
wires.
I opted for automotive spade connectors with nylon covers and use a
little
more of the lacing tape to tie the connectors together to make sure they
don't slip apart. I have heard some people say not to use automotive
connectors, but I have no idea why not.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:32 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
Hi Paul,
I have 2 tanks per wing and they are located behind the main spar. There
is
nothing between the leading edge of the spar and the nose skin except a
lot
of room. I am mounting the strobe power supplies to the spar tips and
running the strobe and nav light wires through the wing to a switch. I
think
I will also run a ground wire along with them instead of grounding to
the
wing structure. I don't know if it makes any difference, but it's easy
to do
at this stage and it can't hurt anything. I'm always curious how other
people do things and this is a good group to pick up a lot of useful
information.
Thanks for the input.
Dave in Salem
801
-
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe wires. |
Dave,
If you do, be sure to install rubber grommets in each hole.
Vibration will soon cause a dead short to ground when the sharp edge of
hole wears through the insulation. Another way to protect wiring is,
install a plastic tube first using bulkhead seal at each hole, then run
your wires through the tube.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:13 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Strobe wires.
I plan on running the strobe wires through the leading edge ribs on my
801. Any reasons for or against?
Dave in Salem
801
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Video Camera mount |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Most camera stores and mail order outfits sell some version of a pocket
tripod. Many of them feature a C-clamp design that could be tightened down
over the turtledeck edge without any modification. I use one clamped to the
cockpit side rail of my ultralight to get inflight videos from just outside
the airplane.
Ed Moody II
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Another Youtube video of Zodiac at Fox Field (KWJF) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
R.P-
I'm really impressed. Builders still on dial-up- if there was ever a
reason to go broadband, Youtube is it.
The video quality was much better on Youtube than the file on
Lightflyers, at least on my computer.
Was that an HD or HDS?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Another Youtube video of Zodiac at Fox Field (KWJF)
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@can.rogers.com>> Re these videos..
>> How do I download these videos as a file and store on the PC?
>> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
>
> I just found Youtube a couple of days ago and don't know how to download
> and save. Here's another video of a high and fast landing at Fox Field
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tljAPJ328
>
> I'll put a larger filesize version at http://www.lightflyers.com/kwjf.mpg
> that you can download and save.
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
This one has been discussed quite a bit and should be in the archives. I don't
know much about Scotch Brite, but this stuff I know.
I can give free thoughts, worth what you paid, so long as you agree you aren't
my client, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum, ipso facto, e pluribus unum. Laws in different
states are different, I am the worst lawyer in history, everything below
is wrong, and nobody should pay any attention to anything I say because they
will likely instantly burst into flame if they do.
I love disclaimers.
In selling a homebuilt, through careful contracting, you may be able to obtain
some lawsuit protection from the person who buys your airplane, and perhaps his
or her family/estate. You may also be able to work out some kind of insurance
deal that covers you both. That would be unusual and difficult, but it isn't
inconceivable. All this falls into the "unsatisfactory but better than nothing"
category.
But you will NOT be able to immunize yourself effectively against lawsuits brought
by third parties. And that's a big "but," so to speak.
Worst case scenario: you build the airplane, and leave a wrench in the tail with
your name on it. You sell the airplane. The new owner crashes into a school
bus because the wrench jams the controls. Every kid on the school bus sues
you (and everyone else in sight of course, possibly including the wrench manufacturer
and Wilbur Wright.....). You are sued because you are the "defective"
airplane's manufacturer (they'll think of something "defective"), and you were
arguably individually negligent, as a mechanic and/or manufacturer, in leaving
the wrench in the tail.
You have all kinds of problems at this point. The kids on the bus never gave you
a hold harmless agreement. The indemnification deal you did with the buyer
isn't much help because he doesn't have any money. The insurance bids $100,000
per kid, up to 10 kids -- *assuming you're even covered, which would require
an unusual arrangement and careful monitoring of the buyer long after the sale*
-- and then the insurance company says "see ya."
An extreme example, of course, but there are a lot of fact scenarios out there
that would approximate this. You can substitute the new owner's passengers for
the kids on the bus, and it's the same analysis.
I have discovered that many homebuilders do not like this analysis, but (a) not
many of them are commercial litigators and (b) I have yet to hear any of them
explain how, exactly, I can prevent exposure to the new owner's passengers, or
to the kids on the bus.
Perhaps after a certain number of years you could claim immunity under GARA, but
that's well beyond my expertise, and the wrench issue will still stick you,
probably.
Those of you in other countries, keep all this in mind the next time someone criticizes
your legal system. :)
I do not worry about these kinds of things, however. Life is waaaaay too short.
I would sell my homebuilt, make sure my name and address were all over the
inside, and go drink a beer. But that's just me. If you followed that advice
you would surely burst into flame. :)
Cheers
Doug Garrou
Project 801
www.garrou.com
-----Original Message-----
Time: 01:47:47 PM PST US
From: "Dan Forney" <dforney@bctonline.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Forney" <dforney@bctonline.com>
Anytime that I talk to someone about the possibility of selling a homebuilt
if or when I was ever unable to fly it, they always caution me against the
thought due to possible liability lawsuits as the manufacturer.
Anyone else ever worry about that when selling, or are there ways to protect
yourself?
Message 13
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Tim-
Will corrosion protectant stick to a polished surface? If it will,
between Carlo's comments and yours, I just might totally change my mind
about painting. I've got 3 stinkin' skins out of the whole lot that have
some corrosion- and it's on the interior surface. It would take no more
time to polish the crud off than to strip it off, at about the same
expense. The only place I'd have to paint would be the wing and stab
tips. I could use adhesive trim to cover up my one smiley on the stab
leading edge and just put a rivet in the stray hole in my right
outboard. Only a Zenith builder would know it didn't belong there!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
__________________________________________________________
L=E8che-vitrine ou l=E8che-=E9cran ?
Message 14
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I used about two inches of shrink tubing every few inches and I also use
liquid tape on the grommets to keep the wires from sliding. The wires
are not drawn completely tight to allow for a little flex and it makes a
nice bundle, I tried pulling the wires back and forth and it did not
move. Originally I grounded my wires to the frame of the wing, when I
tested the lights they did not work very well so I ran a ground wire, it
works great now.
Clyde Barcus
601 XL, Corvair Powered
Wings, Tail & Engine Complete
Working on Fuselage
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Unless you are rolling in dough, you are not at a great risk of being
sued in one of these cases. The lawyers generally go after the "deep
pockets". This is why very few, if any homebuilders have ever been
sued as a result of aircraft accidents. There is simply no money to
be made. In my opinion, a generous insurance policy just makes you a
bigger target for a lawsuit. I would just sell the plane and walk
away and not worry too much about liability risks.
On Sep 9, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Garrou, Douglas wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas"
> <dgarrou@hunton.com>
>
> This one has been discussed quite a bit and should be in the
> archives. I don't know much about Scotch Brite, but this stuff I
> know.
>
> ...
>
> In selling a homebuilt, through careful contracting, you may be
> able to obtain some lawsuit protection from the person who buys
> your airplane, and perhaps his or her family/estate. You may also
> be able to work out some kind of insurance deal that covers you
> both. That would be unusual and difficult, but it isn't
> inconceivable. All this falls into the "unsatisfactory but better
> than nothing" category.
>
> But you will NOT be able to immunize yourself effectively against
> lawsuits brought by third parties. And that's a big "but," so to
> speak.
>
> ...
>
> Doug Garrou
> Project 801
> www.garrou.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Time: 01:47:47 PM PST US
> From: "Dan Forney" <dforney@bctonline.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Forney"
> <dforney@bctonline.com>
>
> Anytime that I talk to someone about the possibility of selling a
> homebuilt
> if or when I was ever unable to fly it, they always caution me
> against the
> thought due to possible liability lawsuits as the manufacturer.
>
> Anyone else ever worry about that when selling, or are there ways
> to protect
> yourself?
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
And that is the practical question: "Has anyone ever actually been
successfully sued as the manufacturer of a homebuilt aircraft?" When I last
asked some time ago, the answer was "no". Maybe Doug can update us on this
if he has new information about cases that have actually occurred.
Jeff Davidson
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Unless you are rolling in dough, you are not at a great risk of being
sued in one of these cases. The lawyers generally go after the "deep
pockets". This is why very few, if any homebuilders have ever been
sued as a result of aircraft accidents. There is simply no money to
be made. In my opinion, a generous insurance policy just makes you a
bigger target for a lawsuit. I would just sell the plane and walk
away and not worry too much about liability risks.
On Sep 9, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Garrou, Douglas wrote:
>
> But you will NOT be able to immunize yourself effectively against
> lawsuits brought by third parties. And that's a big "but," so to
> speak.
>
> ...
>
> Doug Garrou
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
I agree that many times the availability of a big lump of insurance money is
like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Ain't it a bitch though that
having worked hard or worked smart or both makes you a target as well. It
reminds me of the injustice of the anti-hunting crowd who don't mind eating
chickens, pigs, and cattle. They mostly object to the death of "cute"
animals.
One friend wanted to use the engine that he had previously mounted on a wood
and fabric ultralight. He moved it to a CGS Hawk. The old airframe was
perceived as a liability so he rolled it a safe distance from his house (out
in the country) and set fire to it. He claims that in 15 minutes there was
not enough left to bother to rake up. So much for carrying a fire
extinguisher, I guess.
Ed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> Unless you are rolling in dough, you are not at a great risk of being
> sued in one of these cases. The lawyers generally go after the "deep
> pockets". This is why very few, if any homebuilders have ever been sued
> as a result of aircraft accidents. There is simply no money to be made.
> In my opinion, a generous insurance policy just makes you a bigger target
> for a lawsuit. I would just sell the plane and walk away and not worry
> too much about liability risks.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair for sale |
I was told once that you should always sell an expermental as a unsafe non flyable
aircraft. It would be up to the buyer to certify it as safe and flyable again.
Jack in Los osos ca
do not archive
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
Unless you are rolling in dough, you are not at a great risk of being
sued in one of these cases. The lawyers generally go after the "deep
pockets". This is why very few, if any homebuilders have ever been
sued as a result of aircraft accidents. There is simply no money to
be made. In my opinion, a generous insurance policy just makes you a
bigger target for a lawsuit. I would just sell the plane and walk
away and not worry too much about liability risks.
On Sep 9, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Garrou, Douglas wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas"
>
>
> This one has been discussed quite a bit and should be in the
> archives. I don't know much about Scotch Brite, but this stuff I
> know.
>
> ...
>
> In selling a homebuilt, through careful contracting, you may be
> able to obtain some lawsuit protection from the person who buys
> your airplane, and perhaps his or her family/estate. You may also
> be able to work out some kind of insurance deal that covers you
> both. That would be unusual and difficult, but it isn't
> inconceivable. All this falls into the "unsatisfactory but better
> than nothing" category.
>
> But you will NOT be able to immunize yourself effectively against
> lawsuits brought by third parties. And that's a big "but," so to
> speak.
>
> ...
>
> Doug Garrou
> Project 801
> www.garrou.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Time: 01:47:47 PM PST US
> From: "Dan Forney"
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Forney"
>
>
> Anytime that I talk to someone about the possibility of selling a
> homebuilt
> if or when I was ever unable to fly it, they always caution me
> against the
> thought due to possible liability lawsuits as the manufacturer.
>
> Anyone else ever worry about that when selling, or are there ways
> to protect
> yourself?
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Rudder twitchy's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grant.corriveau@telus.net>
: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
-----------------
I honestly believe that no change is necessary,
-----------------
I agree completely with Mark. Don't waste time trying to 'improve'
the handling by messing with the design. It handles like a dream if
you want a quick, sporty little airplane that is still easy to fly.
I call it a Mazda Miata with wings 'cause that's how it seems to
handle to me. Sporty.
Rudder trim is unnecessary. The plane is designed to be neutral in
cruise (the engine mount is offset to counter the Tourque/P effects)
and this works nicely.
( -- I'm smiling, so please read this in a light-hearted tone.)
Trim tab systems are intended to counter-act imbalances in Long Term
stable conditions. For shorter-term, dynamically changing
conditions, (i.e. climbs, power changes, speed changes, altitude
changes, rolling into/outof banks; etc, etc.) we use hands and feet
to control rudder, ailerons and elevators. It's called 'aircraft
handling' and forms just part of the skills set known as "piloting"
<<grin>>
Build the plane and go fly!
All the best,
Grant Corriveau
GHTF
Message 20
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>
I think that this kind of online video viewer is built to prevent
downloading. Now, having said that, I do believe I saw a share/free
ware program the other day somewhere that is intended to record flash
and/or realplayer movies....? not sure...
> I just found Youtube a couple of days ago and don't know how to
> download
> and save. Here's another video of a high and fast landing at Fox Field
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Netters,
Since we all know that aluminum is not a good conductor a ground wire
should be used for every application and it should be copper. I learned
this wiring a boat trailer, I used the ball for the ground and then put
grease on the ball (Stupid me) and had no ground at all. As soon as a
friend who is smarter that me told me I had created enough resistance with
the grease to spoil grounding and I should run a ground wire all lights
worked fine.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> Unless you are rolling in dough, you are not at a great risk of being
> sued in one of these cases. The lawyers generally go after the "deep
> pockets". This is why very few, if any homebuilders have ever been sued
> as a result of aircraft accidents. There is simply no money to be made.
> In my opinion, a generous insurance policy just makes you a bigger target
> for a lawsuit. I would just sell the plane and walk away and not worry
> too much about liability risks.
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Garrou, Douglas wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas"
>> <dgarrou@hunton.com>
>>
>> This one has been discussed quite a bit and should be in the archives.
>> I don't know much about Scotch Brite, but this stuff I know.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> In selling a homebuilt, through careful contracting, you may be able to
>> obtain some lawsuit protection from the person who buys your airplane,
>> and perhaps his or her family/estate. You may also be able to work out
>> some kind of insurance deal that covers you both. That would be unusual
>> and difficult, but it isn't inconceivable. All this falls into the
>> "unsatisfactory but better than nothing" category.
>>
>> But you will NOT be able to immunize yourself effectively against
>> lawsuits brought by third parties. And that's a big "but," so to speak.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Doug Garrou
>> Project 801
>> www.garrou.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Time: 01:47:47 PM PST US
>> From: "Dan Forney" <dforney@bctonline.com>
>> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Forney" <dforney@bctonline.com>
>>
>> Anytime that I talk to someone about the possibility of selling a
>> homebuilt
>> if or when I was ever unable to fly it, they always caution me against
>> the
>> thought due to possible liability lawsuits as the manufacturer.
>>
>> Anyone else ever worry about that when selling, or are there ways to
>> protect
>> yourself?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder twitchy's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
All-
As I said before, I don't think this is a job for the builder. I got
thinking about all the possible causes and realized it's way out of my
league. Also, if Beech can live with a nasty Dutch Roll in their A36
(Although I'm sure they don't advertise it) I guess we can live with a much
less severe case in the Zenith.
Still, an opportunity for improvement.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Corriveau" <grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> <grant.corriveau@telus.net>
>
> : "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder twitchy's
> -----------------
> I honestly believe that no change is necessary,
> -----------------
>
> I agree completely with Mark. Don't waste time trying to 'improve' the
> handling by messing with the design. It handles like a dream if you want
> a quick, sporty little airplane that is still easy to fly. I call it a
> Mazda Miata with wings 'cause that's how it seems to handle to me.
> Sporty.
>
> Rudder trim is unnecessary. The plane is designed to be neutral in
> cruise (the engine mount is offset to counter the Tourque/P effects) and
> this works nicely.
>
> ( -- I'm smiling, so please read this in a light-hearted tone.)
> Trim tab systems are intended to counter-act imbalances in Long Term
> stable conditions. For shorter-term, dynamically changing conditions,
> (i.e. climbs, power changes, speed changes, altitude changes, rolling
> into/outof banks; etc, etc.) we use hands and feet to control rudder,
> ailerons and elevators. It's called 'aircraft handling' and forms just
> part of the skills set known as "piloting" <<grin>>
>
> Build the plane and go fly!
> All the best,
> Grant Corriveau
> GHTF
>
>
>
Message 23
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There is a pluggin for Firefox that will do this. Works on Mac & Windows. (
name escapes me at the moment and it's installed on another computer... )
On 9/9/06, Grant Corriveau <grant.corriveau@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
> I think that this kind of online video viewer is built to prevent
> downloading. Now, having said that, I do believe I saw a share/free ware
> program the other day somewhere that is intended to record flash and/or
> realplayer movies....? not sure...
>
> I just found Youtube a couple of days ago and don't know how to download
>
> and save. Here's another video of a high and fast landing at Fox Field
>
>
> -------------------------------
> grant.corriveau@telus.net
> ---------------------------------------
> The Wings Stayed On!
> http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
Message 24
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Bill,
I'm kind of guessing here but I think it would stick if you cleaned off
any residue oils that are in the polish. I polished the exterior of my
plane and only primed the mating internal surfaces. I also use the demon
zinc chromate primer, stuff woks great and I've been using it for over
forty years. There is a weight advantage to polishing, there has been
some debate but it is probably 20 to 30 pounds lighter.
Tim Shankland
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> Tim-
> Will corrosion protectant stick to a polished surface? If it will,
> between Carlo's comments and yours, I just might totally change my
> mind about painting. I've got 3 stinkin' skins out of the whole lot
> that have some corrosion- and it's on the interior surface. It would
> take no more time to polish the crud off than to strip it off, at
> about the same expense. The only place I'd have to paint would be the
> wing and stab tips. I could use adhesive trim to cover up my one
> smiley on the stab leading edge and just put a rivet in the stray hole
> in my right outboard. Only a Zenith builder would know it didn't
> belong there!
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Craftsman Drill Press sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
For all builders, especially scratch builders, Sears has an online sale that ends
today on their 10 in. 2/3 hp Drill Press with Laser. It is normally $119.99,
but through today it is $99.99. I'm picking mine up at the local Sears store,
but they are even offering a free shipping rebate as well.
I know at least one builder who is using this with great success, especially on
critical parts like the spars. The laser alignment seems to be working well
for him.
Craftsman 10 in. Drill Press with Laser
Mfr. Model #: 21900 00921900000 $99.99
LaserTrac - projects X and Y axis laser lines for accurate pre-alignment of drilling
location
Quick release table elevation - Effortlessly raise, lower and make fine adjustments
to the worktable
On/Off Switch With Removable Locking Key - Switch is easy to use and removable
key helps prevent unauthorized usage
Beveling Table - 7-5/8 x 6-1/2 in. table will bevel 45-deg. and swivel 360-deg.
Fence And Stop Block Included - Fence and stop block help to secure the workpeice.
Stop block aids in repetitive drilling
Depth Adjustment Rod - Sets the dept of the drill bit for repetitive drilling
Cast Iron Table And Base - Cast iron adds strength, stability, and support
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL #6493 from scratch
Rudder completed -- drilling stab spars
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60625#60625
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| Subject: | Steering rod seal |
I am at the point of sealing the slots in the firewall (gravanized steel) for
the steering rods, against air leakage and fire. I'm sure someone has solved
this. There has been a lot of chatter about Honda boots, but that doesn't
appeal to me.
I am also concerned about the effect of the threads on any seal. Has anyone
ground down the threads to make the rods smooth in the vicinity of the slots?
By the way, the dimensions shown on the drawings for the slots are wrong.
The rods are thicker than the width shown for the slots and the slots are much
taller than required for the travel of the nose gear strut.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2620J
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
You know, it's sad when useless backbiting, flaming, and worthless BS get
defended but a tiny bit of humor that you obviously set yourself up for gets
slammed as a detraction from the value of the site. I've lost any interest
in being on this list any longer. Hope everyone finishes and flys safe.
Paul Moore
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
XL-O200
Later dudes................
Definitely ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> If I'd received a straight answer from the list yesterday, I could
have
> picked up what I needed on my lunch break. Now I have to either drive 100+
> miles or wait until Monday and modify my building schedule.
> I'm as big an offender as anyone else, but remember people, the site
is
> supposed to be used for helping fellow builders.
> Archive
Message 28
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Tim-
Considering that except for the 3 skins with interior corrosion I'd
be working with virgin aluminum, could I just use the finish polish or
is there a definite benefit to using the grade 2 first? I've made up my
mind to polish the airframe and trim the leading edges and tips.
Also, how much am I going to need? ACS lists the stuff in 1/2lb
cans. I figure if I order tonight, my building progress and the arrival
of the polish will coincide.
Thanks big time.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim & Diane Shankland
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing
Bill,
I'm kind of guessing here but I think it would stick if you cleaned
off any residue oils that are in the polish. I polished the exterior of
my plane and only primed the mating internal surfaces. I also use the
demon zinc chromate primer, stuff woks great and I've been using it for
over forty years. There is a weight advantage to polishing, there has
been some debate but it is probably 20 to 30 pounds lighter.
Tim Shankland
Bill Naumuk wrote:
Tim-
Will corrosion protectant stick to a polished surface? If it
will, between Carlo's comments and yours, I just might totally change my
mind about painting. I've got 3 stinkin' skins out of the whole lot that
have some corrosion- and it's on the interior surface. It would take no
more time to polish the crud off than to strip it off, at about the same
expense. The only place I'd have to paint would be the wing and stab
tips. I could use adhesive trim to cover up my one smiley on the stab
leading edge and just put a rivet in the stray hole in my right
outboard. Only a Zenith builder would know it didn't belong there!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
__________________________________________________________
L=E8che-vitrine ou l=E8che-=E9cran ?
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, Roger Venables wrote:
> The advice that made the most sense to me was to mount the power supplies in
> the fuselage (behind the seats in the 701) and run shielded cable from here
> out to the strobes on the wing tips
>
> This has 2 main advantages, 1. it makes it easier to maintain/replace the
> power supplies, and 2. it takes the weight out of the wing tips and puts it
> lower down in the fuselage
Well, I don't think I disagree, but here is an opposing point of view
anyway ;-)
If you are going to add weight to a plane, the wing tips arn't such bad
places (within reason). One simple reason is that usually puts that
weight right on the longitudal center of gravity. Another is that putting
the weight out there reduces the bending moment of the wing. Notice all
the planes with after market tip tanks? Those STCs also usually include a
gross weight increase that stipulates that any weight over the original
gross weight must be carried in fuel in those tip tanks. Yet another
reason is that some strobe power supplies generate rf noise that isn't
always easy to shield and putting those supplies out on the tips can
mitigate this problem to a bit.
Your point about ease of maintenace is very valid, but I've seen some
clever access panels done on the tips of a 701.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Steering rod seal |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hey Jay in Dallas:
I came up with another solution. I didn't like the
threads rubbing on the seals either so I used a steel
rod and bored a hole in each end. Then I turned down
a couple of bolts to insert into the steel rods:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_28_04_SteeringRods2.JPG
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_28_04_SteeringRods.JPG
I had them chromed along with the pedals:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Pedals.jpg
I think they work well.
Scott in Omaha.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
--- Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> I am at the point of sealing the slots in the
> firewall (gravanized steel) for
> the steering rods, against air leakage and fire. I'm
> sure someone has solved
> this. There has been a lot of chatter about Honda
> boots, but that doesn't
> appeal to me.
__________________________________________________
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Paul-
Unfortunately, it's getting hard to tell a genuine request from help
from worthless BS on the list. I was disgusted enough to quit because of
this incident, but on the other hand, the positive aspects of membership
outweigh the bad.
You hope everyone finishes and flys safe? What's the list for- humor or
information? I made so many mistakes on my project in the first 4 months of
toughing it out on my own that now I won't drill a hole until I'm good and
sure it's in the right place. I've learned that conducting a thorough
research before acting is a lot less time consuming than cleaning up after a
mistake. As a result, I haven't had to rebuild or replace a part in over a
year..
I came close to quitting, but will stick with the list. My fault for
phrasing a request for help that some people interpreted as grounds for a
joke. I didn't realize you had to signal your intentions.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
>
> You know, it's sad when useless backbiting, flaming, and worthless BS get
> defended but a tiny bit of humor that you obviously set yourself up for
> gets
> slammed as a detraction from the value of the site. I've lost any interest
> in being on this list any longer. Hope everyone finishes and flys safe.
>
> Paul Moore
> Silver City, New Mexico, USA
> XL-O200
> Later dudes................
> Definitely ARCHIVE
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
>> If I'd received a straight answer from the list yesterday, I could
> have
>> picked up what I needed on my lunch break. Now I have to either drive
>> 100+
>> miles or wait until Monday and modify my building schedule.
>> I'm as big an offender as anyone else, but remember people, the site
> is
>> supposed to be used for helping fellow builders.
>> Archive
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Craftsman Drill Press sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Does Sears have strippers?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
For all builders, especially scratch builders, Sears has an online sale that
ends today on their 10 in. 2/3 hp Drill Press with Laser. It is normally
$119.99, but through today it is $99.99. I'm picking mine up at the local
Sears store, but they are even offering a free shipping rebate as well.
I know at least one builder who is using this with great success, especially
on critical parts like the spars. The laser alignment seems to be working
well for him.
Craftsman 10 in. Drill Press with Laser
Mfr. Model #: 21900 00921900000 $99.99
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL #6493 from scratch
Rudder completed -- drilling stab spars
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60625#60625
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Steering rod seal |
Scott, Very neat! I somtimes wish I had the ability to weld up parts like
that, but I don't. I just make do with what I've got
Thanks - Jay
Message 34
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Bill,
I did the whole plane with a little over 1 lb of of the F8 and 1/2 lb of
the C and S. The only way to tell what you need is to try it . If you
can start with the C and get a good finish go with it. I had to do
three passes of F8 and all top parts and two on the bottom part, you
can't see them as well. Then one of C and one of S. When I was done with
a part it was usually like a mirror. Interestingly the bottom of the
plane is like a full length mirror when you are laying under it, this
has a lot to do with it being a very flat surface. If your aluminum is
in good shape it won't take too much, the 1/2 lb cans should be enough
and you can always order more. If you have been to Osh. and watched the
demo or talked to the people at Nuvite they will tell you it is
important not to use too much. You just dip the end of your finger in
and make six or nine dabs on the aluminum. Spread it around with the
bonnet then buff. If you are using the F8 you should us wool bonnets
that are not looped. If you go to Nuvite's web site or look at their
brochure all this is explained.
Tim
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> Tim-
> Considering that except for the 3 skins with interior
> corrosion I'd be working with virgin aluminum, could I just use the
> finish polish or is there a definite benefit to using the grade 2
> first? I've made up my mind to polish the airframe and trim the
> leading edges and tips.
> Also, how much am I going to need? ACS lists the stuff in 1/2lb
> cans. I figure if I order tonight, my building progress and the
> arrival of the polish will coincide.
> Thanks big time.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim & Diane Shankland <mailto:tshank@core.com>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 2:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing
>
> Bill,
> I'm kind of guessing here but I think it would stick if you
> cleaned off any residue oils that are in the polish. I polished
> the exterior of my plane and only primed the mating internal
> surfaces. I also use the demon zinc chromate primer, stuff woks
> great and I've been using it for over forty years. There is a
> weight advantage to polishing, there has been some debate but it
> is probably 20 to 30 pounds lighter.
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>> Tim-
>> Will corrosion protectant stick to a polished surface? If it
>> will, between Carlo's comments and yours, I just might totally
>> change my mind about painting. I've got 3 stinkin' skins out of
>> the whole lot that have some corrosion- and it's on the interior
>> surface. It would take no more time to polish the crud off than
>> to strip it off, at about the same expense. The only place I'd
>> have to paint would be the wing and stab tips. I could use
>> adhesive trim to cover up my one smiley on the stab leading edge
>> and just put a rivet in the stray hole in my right outboard. Only
>> a Zenith builder would know it didn't belong there!
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuselage
>> Townville, Pa
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Steering rod seal |
Jay,
I used a method without boots. I explained it before but here are a
couple of picture. The important thing to remember is the rods don't
have to be sealed until you are flying, if it leaks air while you are on
the ground it doesn't make much difference. As you can see they are just
two little doors that close when the weight is taken off the front
wheel. To eliminate the noise of the threaded rod I found a piece of
thin wall aluminum tubing in may stash of junk and slid them over the
rods held in place with a couple of nuts.
Tim Shankland
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> I am at the point of sealing the slots in the firewall (gravanized
> steel) for the steering rods, against air leakage and fire. I'm sure
> someone has solved this. There has been a lot of chatter about Honda
> boots, but that doesn't appeal to me.
>
> I am also concerned about the effect of the threads on any seal. Has
> anyone ground down the threads to make the rods smooth in the vicinity
> of the slots?
>
> By the way, the dimensions shown on the drawings for the slots are
> wrong. The rods are thicker than the width shown for the slots and
> the slots are much taller than required for the travel of the nose
> gear strut.
>
> Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2620J
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Steering rod seal Trying again with attachments |
Jay,
I used a method without boots. I explained it before but here are a
couple of picture. The important thing to remember is the rods don't
have to be sealed until you are flying, if it leaks air while you are on
the ground it doesn't make much difference. As you can see they are just
two little doors that close when the weight is taken off the front
wheel. To eliminate the noise of the threaded rod I found a piece of
thin wall aluminum tubing in may stash of junk and slid them over the
rods held in place with a couple of nuts.
Tim Shankland
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> I am at the point of sealing the slots in the firewall (gravanized
> steel) for the steering rods, against air leakage and fire. I'm sure
> someone has solved this. There has been a lot of chatter about Honda
> boots, but that doesn't appeal to me.
>
> I am also concerned about the effect of the threads on any seal. Has
> anyone ground down the threads to make the rods smooth in the vicinity
> of the slots?
>
> By the way, the dimensions shown on the drawings for the slots are
> wrong. The rods are thicker than the width shown for the slots and
> the slots are much taller than required for the travel of the nose
> gear strut.
>
> Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2620J
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Steering rod seal |
Look in the list's photo/file archives for shots of a couple of different
solutions using metal shutters or slides.
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Steering rod seal
I am at the point of sealing the slots in the firewall (gravanized steel)
for the steering rods, against air leakage and fire. I'm sure someone has
solved this. There has been a lot of chatter about Honda boots, but that
doesn't appeal to me.
I am also concerned about the effect of the threads on any seal. Has anyone
ground down the threads to make the rods smooth in the vicinity of the
slots?
By the way, the dimensions shown on the drawings for the slots are wrong.
The rods are thicker than the width shown for the slots and the slots are
much taller than required for the travel of the nose gear strut.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2620J
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Steering rod seal |
I used the Yamaha snowmobile boots with the rods sleeved with aluminum
tube riding in a brass bushing in the boot. But if you don't like Honda
you probably are anti-Yamaha too. Anyway, seems lile sleeving the rods
is an eary way to eliminate the rough threads. Here's where the scratch
builders have an advantage, as they can just use smooth solid rod with
only the end threaded instead of the all-thread that ZAC uses.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Steering rod seal
I am at the point of sealing the slots in the firewall (gravanized
steel) for the steering rods, against air leakage and fire. I'm sure
someone has solved this. There has been a lot of chatter about Honda
boots, but that doesn't appeal to me.
I am also concerned about the effect of the threads on any seal. Has
anyone ground down the threads to make the rods smooth in the vicinity
of the slots?
By the way, the dimensions shown on the drawings for the slots are
wrong. The rods are thicker than the width shown for the slots and the
slots are much taller than required for the travel of the nose gear
strut.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2620J
Message 39
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| Subject: | Steering rod seal |
Shrink wrap on rods and boots made of fireproof cloth same as fireman suits
Lee
701
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Steering rod seal
I am at the point of sealing the slots in the firewall (gravanized steel)
for the steering rods, against air leakage and fire. I'm sure someone has
solved this. There has been a lot of chatter about Honda boots, but that
doesn't appeal to me.
I am also concerned about the effect of the threads on any seal. Has anyone
ground down the threads to make the rods smooth in the vicinity of the
slots?
By the way, the dimensions shown on the drawings for the slots are wrong.
The rods are thicker than the width shown for the slots and the slots are
much taller than required for the travel of the nose gear strut.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage N2620J
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Craftsman Drill Press sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Gary-
All kinds, depending on your particular need.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:49 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Craftsman Drill Press sale
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> Does Sears have strippers?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
>
> For all builders, especially scratch builders, Sears has an online sale
> that
> ends today on their 10 in. 2/3 hp Drill Press with Laser. It is normally
> $119.99, but through today it is $99.99. I'm picking mine up at the local
> Sears store, but they are even offering a free shipping rebate as well.
>
> I know at least one builder who is using this with great success,
> especially
> on critical parts like the spars. The laser alignment seems to be working
> well for him.
>
> Craftsman 10 in. Drill Press with Laser
> Mfr. Model #: 21900 00921900000 $99.99
>
> --------
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> 601XL #6493 from scratch
> Rudder completed -- drilling stab spars
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60625#60625
>
>
>
Message 41
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Lighten up!!!!!!!!!!!
In a message dated 9/9/2006 8:45:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
naumuk@alltel.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Paul-
Unfortunately, it's getting hard to tell a genuine request from help
from worthless BS on the list. I was disgusted enough to quit because of
this incident, but on the other hand, the positive aspects of membership
outweigh the bad.
You hope everyone finishes and flys safe? What's the list for- humor or
information? I made so many mistakes on my project in the first 4 months of
toughing it out on my own that now I won't drill a hole until I'm good and
sure it's in the right place. I've learned that conducting a thorough
research before acting is a lot less time consuming than cleaning up after a
mistake. As a result, I haven't had to rebuild or replace a part in over a
year..
I came close to quitting, but will stick with the list. My fault for
phrasing a request for help that some people interpreted as grounds for a
joke. I didn't realize you had to signal your intentions.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stripper
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
>
> You know, it's sad when useless backbiting, flaming, and worthless BS get
> defended but a tiny bit of humor that you obviously set yourself up for
> gets
> slammed as a detraction from the value of the site. I've lost any interest
> in being on this list any longer. Hope everyone finishes and flys safe.
>
> Paul Moore
> Silver City, New Mexico, USA
> XL-O200
> Later dudes................
> Definitely ARCHIVE
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
>> If I'd received a straight answer from the list yesterday, I could
> have
>> picked up what I needed on my lunch break. Now I have to either drive
>> 100+
>> miles or wait until Monday and modify my building schedule.
>> I'm as big an offender as anyone else, but remember people, the site
> is
>> supposed to be used for helping fellow builders.
>> Archive
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Craftsman Drill Press sale |
No, just green scotchbrite pads
do not archive
In a message dated 9/9/2006 8:51:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe@calply.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Does Sears have strippers?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
For all builders, especially scratch builders, Sears has an online sale that
ends today on their 10 in. 2/3 hp Drill Press with Laser. It is normally
$119.99, but through today it is $99.99. I'm picking mine up at the local
Sears store, but they are even offering a free shipping rebate as well.
I know at least one builder who is using this with great success, especially
on critical parts like the spars. The laser alignment seems to be working
well for him.
Craftsman 10 in. Drill Press with Laser
Mfr. Model #: 21900 00921900000 $99.99
Message 43
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| Subject: | Soon to be 601XL Builder - Thanks for advice / responses |
Thanks to all who replied to my introduction!
Regards,
Steven
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