---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/11/06: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:00 AM - Re: CH 640 Controls (steveadams) 2. 06:33 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Robert L. Stone) 3. 07:24 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (Garrou, Douglas) 4. 08:19 AM - Re: Porsche Engine in a 701 (Steve) 5. 08:30 AM - Window tinting (bob west) 6. 09:09 AM - Re: Jab 3300 CHT Update (lgingell) 7. 09:10 AM - Re: Zenair for sale (rwhall@telusplanet.net) 8. 09:10 AM - Re: Steering rod seal (Klaus Truemper) 9. 09:45 AM - Warning Sign of Bungee Cord Failure in 601 (Klaus Truemper) 10. 09:58 AM - 601 Rotax install question (Trevor Page) 11. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Jab 3300 CHT Update (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 12:34 PM - gust lock for 601 HD/HDS (Klaus Truemper) 13. 01:25 PM - Pitot system parts (Kenny Aron) 14. 02:29 PM - Re: Pitot system parts (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 02:50 PM - Re: Window tinting (Gig Giacona) 16. 03:01 PM - New Englanders interested in workshop (ernie) 17. 03:18 PM - Re: Window tinting (Jean-Paul Roy) 18. 06:04 PM - HD wing nose skin (Carlos Sa) 19. 06:41 PM - Re: [601_HD-HDS] Test flight N201MS 601HDS (ron dewees) 20. 06:45 PM - Re: Window tinting (NYTerminat@AOL.COM) 21. 07:10 PM - Tri gear vs tailwheel test flight (ron dewees) 22. 07:20 PM - Re: Craftsman Drill Press sale (Robin Bellach) 23. 09:25 PM - Re: Tri gear vs tailwheel test flight (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH 640 Controls From: "steveadams" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" Hello, I built and fly a CH640. I will try and post a picture later, but will try to explain if I can. Starting from the ailerons. Cables from the aileron bell cranks attach to a torque tube which runs forward through the spar. Attached to the forward portion of the torque tube is a vertical tube. Think of it as a single control stick that runs up behind the panel. The photo is looking down on the controls behind the panel and forward is the top of the picture. It is really simple and works well. There is probably a bit more resistance than a system using a chain mechanism. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60925#60925 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_152.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Robert, You still have not told anyone where you are. There may be someone a block away who is looking for what you are selling and you will miss out on a sale just because no one knows were you are. If you are a criminal hiding from the law forget all I have said. LOL Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:39 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net > > Bob Thank you for your tip. I have listed my Zenair on the Barnstomers > site > and already had some interest. Best regards, Robert > > > Quoting "Robert L. Stone" : > >> >> >> >> Robert, >> Barnstormers is the best aviation web site and adds are free unless >> you >> want to make a donation. I have used them and always make a donation >> after >> the sale. It's also a good idea to tell people where you are because >> there >> might be someone close who is looking for a Zenith/Zodiac aircraft to >> buy. >> http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php? > PHPSESSID=2ef94a86daa861b6da018683153522ef >> >> Bob Stone, Harker Heights >> ZodiacXL >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:12 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale >> >> >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net >> > >> > >> > I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would >> > appreciate >> any >> > suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale From: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" A few followups on the ever-popular liability issue. I'll cut and paste from various responses: "Has anyone ever actually been successfully sued as the manufacturer of a homebuilt aircraft?" "Unless you are rolling in dough, you are not at a great risk of being sued in one of these cases. The lawyers generally go after the "deep pockets". This is why very few, if any homebuilders have ever been sued as a result of aircraft accidents. There is simply no money to be made. In my opinion, a generous insurance policy just makes you a bigger target for a lawsuit. I would just sell the plane and walk away and not worry too much about liability risks." I agree on all fronts, as a practical matter (hence my "write your name all over the inside and go drink a beer" comment). And I am not aware of anyone being sued for building a bad homebuilt. My point was more to the fact that people often claim you can protect yourself completely, and those people are, to use a very technical legal word, "wrong." Two additional caveats: we wouldn't necessarily know if claims against homebuilt "manufacturers" have been made, since the case might not be reported or might have been settled without litigation. Also, some very well-heeled people fly homebuilts -- maybe not Zeniths.... :) -- and the number of high-end homebuilts seems to be growing substantially. I think it is only a matter of time before we see a lawsuit going after the well-heeled "manufacturer" (builder/first owner) of a high-performance homebuilt, if it hasn't happened already. When that happens, watch the sparks fly as the plaintiff ALSO sues one of those ridiculous "builder assist" (also known as "we build it for the rich guy while he watches") operations as well! "I was told once that you should always sell an experimental as a unsafe non flyable aircraft. It would be up to the buyer to certify it as safe and flyable again." This approach is no different, really, than getting an indemnification from the buyer. In fact, this approach is probably far less effective. In any event, this will not be a viable defense in a claim brought by an injured third party. Here's another interesting issue along the same lines -- AOPA, etc., all push renter's insurance very hard. And it isn't cheap. Certainly aircraft renters are theoretically exposed when they fly rented airplanes (the FBO's insurance rarely, if ever, covers them). But I don't actually see those cases happening either. They almost certainly have happened, but before buying renter's insurance, I would want the person selling the insurance to tell me on how many occasions, exactly, in the past 10 years, a renter has actually had a judgment entered against him or her after wrecking the FBO's plane. I strongly suspect the insurers know the answer to this question, and that the number isn't large. But I could be wrong, it's just a hunch. All disclaimers from previous posts apply..... Doug Garrou Project 801 www.garrou.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:26 AM PST US From: Steve Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Porsche Engine in a 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve I have a Porsche Type IV that has been converted for aircraft use ( it was in a KR1) I'd take $800.00 for it (that's what I paid). Contact me off list if you are interested steve@cccparis.com Steve Russell 701 scratch -----Original message----- From: "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" infow@mts.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Porsche Engine in a 701 > > Thanks Monty > > Yes it is a Porsche 914 2.0L engine that I'm building into a 2.6L engine,> with fuel injection. I'm also going to add a 2.2 reduction drive so that I> can develop the true power(72" 3B prop) of the engine around 5200 rpm(take> off). This should give me about 115hp. > > So far I have not been able to find anyone who has used the type 4 engine> only the type 1. I did contact the folks in Australia, but they are very> difficult to deal with - not very nice. On there web site they advertise> there redrive for sale for type 4 engines - but when you ask for pricing> they won't sell it to you, has to be sold with there engine - they get very> nasty when questioned about their faulty advertising. > > There are quite a few web sites offering type 1 conversions along with> redrives - but only for the type 1. Mind you about 90% of the parts could> be used for the type 4. > Some of them are: > http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/ > http://members.socket.net/~ranchair/ > http://www.greatplainsas.com/welcome.html > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > http://www.revmasteraviation.com/ > > I did find one redrive supplier that can supply all the individual parts> needed along with construction drawing to build one. The only problem is> its designed for a Subaru but thats no big deal. Basically all that I> would have to have made is a crank hub and mount, which I have done> already.. and you can buy it i piece at a time. The company is very easy> to deal with, the web site is: > http://www.geocities.com/rfisubaru/rfi.html > Don Parham > RFI Power systems > P.O. Box 263 > Indianola, Ok 74442 > > Phone: 918-823-4610 > Fax: 918-823-4690 > > e-mail rfi@oklatel.net > > PS: I have been in touch with the Smith's. They have a vice setup but it is> for the type 1 case. It's nice to hear that the type 1 will work in a 701.> I will be building on floats so I need all the grunt at the low end that I> can get... and that means installing a redrive. It also helps to dampen> any stresses on the crank, which can be a problem with the type 1. > > Thanks again for your help > Ron Leclerc > > > On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:23:46 -0500, Monty Graves wrote: > >-->Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > > > > > >Ron, > > > >I don't know of anyone that has put a type IV engine in the CH701. > > There are a few Type I-III VW engines with Valley Eng redrives, > >made by the Smiths at Culver Props. > > > >One is my friend B.J. Schwaller, he has a 1915cc VW and redrive on > >his 701. The plane flys weekly now out of Eldon MO. Pictures of > >his plane are in Zenith's Builders secton site...... > > > >www.culverprops.com > > > >The Smiths build and sell VW engines, redrives for the VW, and > >engine mounts for the 701, and of course really nice wood props. > > > >I was just over to their shop on Wednesday of this week. They had > >just finished another engine mount for the VW engine and Diel Case > >for a 701 in New Zealand and it was being shipped that day. Also > >word on an IDAHO 701 builder that was just starting to test fly his > >701 with the Smiths, engine mount and their 2275cc VW engine and > >redrive Culver Prop package...........So far he is very happy. > > > >In the next few weeks, hopefully still in Sept. another > >K.C.Missouri 701 builder is also going to install their complete, > >mount, engine, redrive, Culver Prop combo in hsi airplane...... > > > >Monty Graves > > > > > >At 09:01 PM 9/1/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >>-->Zenith-List message posted by: Ron D Leclerc > >> > >> > >>Has anyone out there had the opportunity to install a Porsche > >>Type 4 2.6L engine in a 701? I need some info on an engine mount > >>and building a redrive... perhaps someone has built one. > >> > >>Ron Leclerc > >>Winnipeg MB Canada > > > > > >Features Navigator to browse > >and much much more: > > - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > >-->http://forums.matronics.com > >generous support! > >>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:03 AM PST US From: bob west Subject: Zenith-List: Window tinting Greetings, Was installing my top windshield on my 701 and since I live in central Fla.. Has any one installed window tinting on their top acrylic windshield ??? Better do it now than later. Bob Plane painted, wired, rigged. Do Not Archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jab 3300 CHT Update From: "lgingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" So....what changes/baffels etc. did you end up with? How was your oil temp doing? ..lance -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60971#60971 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:09 AM PST US From: rwhall@telusplanet.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net Bob I am in Edmonton, Alberta. Thanks again. Robert Quoting "Robert L. Stone" : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" > > Robert, > You still have not told anyone where you are. There may be someone a > block away who is looking for what you are selling and you will miss out on > a sale just because no one knows were you are. If you are a criminal hiding > > from the law forget all I have said. LOL > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > ZodiacXL > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:39 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net > > > > Bob Thank you for your tip. I have listed my Zenair on the Barnstomers > > site > > and already had some interest. Best regards, Robert > > > > > > > > Quoting "Robert L. Stone" : > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Robert, > >> Barnstormers is the best aviation web site and adds are free unless > >> you > >> want to make a donation. I have used them and always make a donation > >> after > >> the sale. It's also a good idea to tell people where you are because > >> there > >> might be someone close who is looking for a Zenith/Zodiac aircraft to > >> buy. > >> http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php? > > PHPSESSID=2ef94a86daa861b6da018683153522ef > >> > >> Bob Stone, Harker Heights > >> ZodiacXL > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: > >> To: > >> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:12 PM > >> Subject: Zenith-List: Zenair for sale > >> > >> > >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rwhall@telusplanet.net > >> > > >> > > >> > I have an airworthy CH601 which regrettably I must sell. I would > >> > appreciate > >> any > >> > suggestions as to the best way or place to sell. Regards, Robert Hall > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:46 AM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Steering rod seal --> Zenith-List message posted by: Klaus Truemper Hi, I used delrin slides. To prevent wear by the the threads, I covered them with nylong tubing. It has worked well for 1000 hrs of flying. The following page has details: http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/nose_gear_delrin_slide.html Best wishes, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:53 AM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: Warning Sign of Bungee Cord Failure in 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Klaus Truemper Hi, One sign of a failing nose gear bungee is reduced tension of the rudder cables when the plane is empty. The reduction is due to the angle of the nose gear tube relative to the surface defined by the rudder cables. In the 601, that angle is less than 90 degrees when the nose gear is as far extended as possible, which is the case when the plane is empty, assuming a Rotax engine is installed. As a result, the cable tension is maximum at that point. When the bungee begins to fail, the nose gear moves up a bit from the stop when the plane is empty, and the tension of the rudder cables is reduced. An easy way to test whether reduced cable tension is due to failing of the bungee, is as follows. A friend steps onto the wing aft of the spar, as if climbing into the plane. This unloads the nose gear and causes it to move down toward the stop if it was not at the stop originally. Any such nose gear movement increases the rudder cable tension, which can be easily checked near the bellcrank of the rudder. If a change is detected, then this is a warning sign of bungee failure. These facts motivate the following recommendation. 1. During the preflight check, one should always test the tension of the rudder cables at the rudder bellcrank. 2. If the cable tension has dropped, one should NOT retension the cables, but should investigate the cause. Most likely, the nose gear bungee is beginning to fail. In my plane the bungee has been failing every 500 hrs, most recently when I reached 1000 hrs TTAE. In each case, the bungee began to fail on the hook behind the nose gear tube, a hard-to-inspect location. On the other hand, the rudder cable test was a reliable indicator. Best wishes, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:37 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rotax install question Does anyone have dimensions of these 2 radiator brackets used on a 601XL Rotax 912 install? I'm changing my stock cowl and moving the rads on my 601HD and I need to make these but I don't have the measurements. Thanks in advance! =EF=BC=EF=BC Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:47 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jab 3300 CHT Update Lance, I used some of Jeff Small's fins and Ron DeWeess' fins and well as Fred H's fins, plus, enclosing the area beside the duct and diverting that air around No. 6. Adding between barrel diverters, at the bottom, closed up the front of the duct bottom, added metal air ducts between valve covers with internal V type diverters, plus attaching a metal plate below the spark plugs that is bolted down with valve cover bolts. Really Lance there is so many things I can't really write and describe them. You are welcome to come by my hanger and I'll show them to you and you can measure, photo, etc.. A problem is that one or more of these mods may actually have nil effect or may even work against some other mod. So perhaps some combination? would have the same effect without some of the mods. I just don't know. Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:35 PM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: gust lock for 601 HD/HDS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Klaus Truemper Hi, There are various ways to lock aileron and elevator in place. For us, a small gust block attached to the center stick has worked well. Details are given on http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/gustlock.html Elsewhere it has been proposed that a bungee cord be used as gust lock. That approach pulls the control stick forward and pushes the elevator down against the stop. As a result, the bungee imposes a force on the elevator bellcrank that, due to the leverage of the control stick, can be much higher than any force ever encountered in flight. Philip Welsh has a fix for this, in the form of a small high-density styrofoam block that acts as forward stop of the control stick when the bungee cord is used. That way, no load is imposed on the aileron bellcrank. Best wishes, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:06 PM PST US From: "Kenny Aron" Subject: Zenith-List: Pitot system parts All, I'm wrapping my 801's leading edges, and need to run the tubing for the pitot probe. (sorry, no strippers or scotch-brite in this post!) I intend to use Dynon's AOA probe (already have the mast) which has aluminum 3/16ths OD connectors. I mistakenly ordered "3/16ths" tubing from Aircraft spruce which has a 3/16's OD (not ID). Looking around, I only see OD's specified for tubing. So, what's the correct size tubing to use with the dynon probe? Also, I was watching the "installing a glass panel" dvd this weekend (raining outside...), where they demonstrated a "quick-lock" connector for the static/pitot lines. They didn't state the manufacturer, or even exactly what they're called. (there's no nut to thread over the tube, you thread the connector into the instrument, push a lock back, insert the tube end, then pull the ring-lock back forward- done) Anyone know what these are called? And what size to order to use with the above-mentioned unknown-size tubing? Thanks! -- \|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/ --Kenny A. http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/ http://users3.ev1.net/%7Ekennyarn/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:21 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot system parts Hi Kenny, The system used for the ZAC pitot/static probe uses 3/16 barb connectors and tubing along with some 3/16 O.D. rubber tubing to make the joints. You just put a little rubber tubing over the barb connector and stick the other end over the main tubing line to go into the instrument panel. You can use some sort of hose clamps to hold them in place, but I just used a couple of turns of safety wire on mine. ZAC supplies some fancy polyurethane tubing with the kit, but you should do just fine with fuel line rubber tubing available at any auto parts store. Paul XL fuselage At 01:23 PM 9/11/2006, you wrote: >All, > >I'm wrapping my 801's leading edges, and need to run the tubing for >the pitot probe. (sorry, no strippers or scotch-brite in this post!) >I intend to use Dynon's AOA probe (already have the mast) which has >aluminum 3/16ths OD connectors. I mistakenly ordered "3/16ths" >tubing from Aircraft spruce which has a 3/16's OD (not ID). Looking >around, I only see OD's specified for tubing. So, what's the correct >size tubing to use with the dynon probe? > >Also, I was watching the "installing a glass panel" dvd this weekend >(raining outside...), where they demonstrated a "quick-lock" >connector for the static/pitot lines. They didn't state the >manufacturer, or even exactly what they're called. (there's no nut >to thread over the tube, you thread the connector into the >instrument, push a lock back, insert the tube end, then pull the >ring-lock back forward- done) Anyone know what these are called? And >what size to order to use with the above-mentioned unknown-size tubing? > >Thanks! > >-- >\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/ >--Kenny A. >http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/ >http://users3.ev1.net/%7Ekennyarn/ > - ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:19 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Window tinting From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" Is you plane going to be hangered most of the time? If not the tint could put more heat on the acrylic and cause it to distort. If you can find it you'd be better of getting tinted acrylic than adding the tint after market. [quote="lsabuilder(at)yahoo.com"]Greetings, Was installing my top windshield on my 701 and since I live in central Fla.. Has any one installed window tinting on their top acrylic windshield ??? Better do it now than later. Bob Plane painted, wired, rigged. Do Not Archive > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61042#61042 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:24 PM PST US From: ernie Subject: Zenith-List: New Englanders interested in workshop Hi, I am interested in attending the rudder workshop for the 601xl either Oct or November. I am in New Hampshire and am wondering in if anyone else is thinking of attending and interested in sharing the ride? Ernie ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:32 PM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Window tinting How about doubling it with a thin tinted piece of LEXAN ? Jean-Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: bob west To: 701 list Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Window tinting Greetings, Was installing my top windshield on my 701 and since I live in central Fla.. Has any one installed window tinting on their top acrylic windshield ??? Better do it now than later. Bob Plane painted, wired, rigged. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:03 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: HD wing nose skin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, all Has anybody tried the David Barth method (http://ch601.org/tools/nose%20skin.htm)for bending a nose skin for a CH601-HD? (The radius is much larger on the -HD than on the -XL, thence the question). Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:08 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Zenith-List: Re: [601_HD-HDS] Test flight N201MS 601HDS ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:44 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Window tinting I don't know how old your kit is, but mine came with a tinted piece of lexan for the top. Works pretty well. You can get different tinted pieces of lexan from McMasters. I would not double it, it just adds more weight. Bob Spudis N701ZX CH701/912S In a message dated 9/11/2006 6:19:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca writes: How about doubling it with a thin tinted piece of LEXAN ? Jean-Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: _bob west_ (mailto:lsabuilder@yahoo.com) Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Window tinting Greetings, Was installing my top windshield on my 701 and since I live in central Fla.. Has any one installed window tinting on their top acrylic windshield ??? Better do it now than later. Bob Plane painted, wired, rigged. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:07 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Zenith-List: Tri gear vs tailwheel test flight > > >>> >>> >> >>>> Listers-- I hope this won't be too boring to you veteran Zenith >>>> pilots out there but I got a chance to fly a friend's brand new >>>> 601HDS registered as N201MS. It's powered by a Continental A 75-8 >>>> (75 hp) motor and is a tri gear model. I thought it might be >>>> interesting to those who have flown one, but not both wheel >>>> configurations of Zenith 601s if I shared my reactions. I wrote >>>> this review after flying N201MS for two hours. I think my hours >>>> were number 10 and 11, so it's a brand new bird! Mike Stewart was >>>> kind enough to ask me to help fly off the Phase One hours since he >>>> has watched me tweak my HDS/Jab 3300 taildragger for over 150 >>>> hours. He has also owned or built over 60 airplanes and did the >>>> first flight on my 601HDS so he knows his stuff! The original >>>> post was to our Yahoo group called: 601_HD-HDS. There are more >>>> pictures and information posted there. The group was set up for >>>> Georgia area Zenith drivers to communicate but it is open to >>>> everyone. I am sure my experience will not be the same as everybody >>>> else's but I just call them the way I see them-- One additional >>>> note-- the aileron stiffness I noticed is now completely gone. >>>> Mike found a binding bearing and fixed it so it's effortless to use >>>> ailerons now. He says that when I get out of his plane next time I >>>> will head for mine and pick up the shears to put hinges on my >>>> ailerons. We will see- >>>> ----------- >>>> Zenair N601TD wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi fellow Zenith drivers and builders-- I did take Mike Stewart up on >>>>> his offer to help fly off phase I hours on N201MS and yesterday I put >>>>> almost 2 hours flight in the perky red bird. Mike missed his career >>>>> as a test pilot as he had nailed all the critical flight numbers >>>>> right >>>>> on the button, which made the flight a lot less "experimental" for me >>>>> than it could have been. >>>>> First of all it's tempting to think that a Zenith 601 HDS is a >>>>> 601HDS, etc. NOT SO! I'm sure there is a lot of variation within >>>>> identically configured planes of any model but there was a lot more >>>>> difference than I expected between Mike's HDS tri gear and my HDS >>>>> taildragger. I was to see for myself as the flight progressed. >>>>> To recap Mike's configuration it's a VERY light 601HDS (speed wing) >>>>> that actually came out lighter than Chris Heintz' prototype at 569 >>>>> pounds. It's powered by a Continental A 75-8 non- electric motor >>>>> swinging a 60X58 pitch Tennessee prop. That's 8 inches more pitch >>>>> than my Jabiru 3300 120 hp motor is pulling! Mike and Tennessee >>>>> Propellers came up with that configuration after looking at >>>>> performance charts and projected cruse speeds for the A 65@2300 rpm. >>>>> Tennessee actually sent a 58 inch pitch rather than the 57 that was >>>>> agreed upon. In spite of this optomistic task for the little A75, A >>>>> digital tachometer confirmed 2260 static rpm with the prop. It easily >>>>> cruses at 2300 at altitude and gives a bit more, but not much at full >>>>> throttle. >>>>> Back to the flight-- Mike told me that the right brake was very easy >>>>> to depress when using right rudder because of the toe brake setup of >>>>> the Heintz's flyers and he was right. The A75 is a torquey little >>>>> engine that requires noticable right rudder to offset the "P" factor >>>>> on taxiing for takeoff. The mechanical brakes are similar to mine but >>>>> seem more effective. Mike told me to accelerate to 65/70 mph, apply a >>>>> little back pressure and let it rotate. Best climb speed seems to be >>>>> between 85 and 90. This gives about 650 to 800 fpm climb rate out of >>>>> our turf strip. This is certainly adequate but not terribly >>>>> thrilling, altho it sure got up to altitude in a dependable and >>>>> reassuring manner. The A75 sounds throaty and powerful both on the >>>>> ground and in the plane. Mike used larger exhaust pipes on the >>>>> manifolds and we think it may be the reason for the nice exhaust >>>>> note. Several on the ground thought it was an 0320 rather than a >>>>> "cub" motor. Mike liked that! >>>>> Flying is rather different from my taildragger. The first thing I >>>>> noticed was ground handling. It drives like a go-cart because of the >>>>> direct and positive linkage to the nosewheel. There isn't any need to >>>>> goose the throttle to throw the tail around like the taildragger >>>>> requires for tight turns. OTOH, the nice ground handling gives way to >>>>> sort of clunky rudder corrections in the air since the nosewheel is >>>>> resting on a rather stiff bearing on the firewall. There has been a >>>>> lot of discussion from Zenith drivers about changing this setup, but >>>>> it's simple, and seems to live on from model to model. >>>>> The ailerons were the next thing I wanted to compare, since Mike >>>>> installed hinges on his ailerons, rather than the "skin flex" >>>>> ailerons >>>>> on my HDS. Well, there is good news and bad news-- The ailerons are, >>>>> indeed easier to deflect on the ground and there is no self-centering >>>>> tendency as in the skin flex aileron. Since the plane is so new >>>>> (about 11 hours now) there is some friction in the linkage and minor >>>>> aileron corrections sometimes just remain deflected until the pilot >>>>> centers the stick again. I think this will improve with usage and >>>>> probably not be noticed as quickly by pilots who have not flown with >>>>> skin flexed ailerons. >>>>> The flight characteristics are very nice and reminiscent of my >>>>> taildragger. It's solid and feels like a heavier plane than it is. >>>>> OTOH when you lean it over for a mild turn it seems more in its >>>>> element. It cheerfully banks over and stays there unless you correct >>>>> the angle. The A75 is a little strained to maintain lift at steep >>>>> bank angles so the rpm drops a little bit but it returns immediately >>>>> when the wing starts suppling full lift again. You feel like Walter >>>>> Mitty chasing the Red Barron as you yank and bank it a bit. It's a >>>>> really nice combination of a trainer with great manners and an entry >>>>> level fighter plane. You never see it's fun personality till you feel >>>>> comfortable with the snappy handling. Wingovers and steep turns are >>>>> great, but we all agreed it's a bit lacking in power for a roll or >>>>> loop. >>>>> Mike was right on with his cruse and landing numbers, too. He got >>>>> 110 to 115 mph at 2300 rpm cruse and that's about what I saw. It >>>>> feels faster than that and the plane just seems to like those speeds >>>>> cause full throttle or 2250 rpm don't change it much up or down. Mike >>>>> weighs about 40 pounds more than I do so I was curious to sii if >>>>> the stall >>>>> speed would be different. He gets 51 mph power off and 47 ish power >>>>> on. I seemed to get similar numbers so it is Light Sport Aircraft >>>>> qualified. As expected, the big fat wing gives a lot of warning of >>>>> impending stalls. It gripes a bit, shakes a little, shakes more, >>>>> and finally breaks mildly into an increased rate of descent. No >>>>> tendancy to drop a wing at all. You would have to be >>>>> distracted by Angelina Jolie in the right seat to ignore the warnings >>>>> of a stall. >>>>> I was mildly anxious about the first landing at our 2500 foot turf >>>>> strip with a 8 knot tailwind so I went to Covington and Monroe >>>>> airports to get some landing experience. Mike suggested 100 on >>>>> downwind, 90 on base, and 80 on final, with a mild flare with power >>>>> and 60/65 at touchdown. These numbers sounded hot to me since I use >>>>> about 10 mph less in landing configuration on my taildragger. >>>>> As usual Mike's numbers were very close and the first landing I set >>>>> up at Covington would have been impossibly high in my plane. The >>>>> nosegear configuration seems to settle into a solid descent angle >>>>> without picking up speed and high approaches are almost always >>>>> recoverable. I noticed up to 1500 fpm descent at 1800 rpm and the >>>>> airspeed seemed nailed to the gauge. As you would expect, the speed >>>>> will bleed off pretty fast as you rotate to a flare with these >>>>> approach angles and you would be right. I added power and it rounded >>>> >>>>> nicely and made an acceptable aquaintance with runway 10 at Covington >>>>> at about 60 indicated airspeed. I opened the throttle and watched out >>>>> for the right brake interaction with the rudder pedal and rotated >>>>> in a >>>>> few hundred feet. The torque factor wasn't as bad as from dead start >>>>> but it still needed right rudder. It climbed better than out of >>>>> Lenora and I saw up to 1000 feet at times. After a few more landings >>>>> at Covington and Monroe I felt better about landing at Lenora and had >>>>> no problem at all getting back into Lenora. >>>>> All in all it's a great plane! It's different from mine, but 45 >>>>> less horsepower is bound to make any plane feel different. The >>>>> biggest >>>>> change I noticed was the descent angle with power off. It has a very >>>>> solid and predictable glide angle for landings that Mike says is >>>>> almost identical to the Piper Pacer. I haven't flown a Pacer but >>>>> bet I >>>>> would like it. The rudder pedals will remain stiff due to the >>>>> nosewheel linkage and the ailerons will certainly loosten up. BTW >>>>> Mike >>>>> installed a mechanical trim tab on the elevator and it's awesome! >>>>> Half >>>>> inch movement on the tab sets it up for climb or cruse and takes off >>>>> almost all stick pressure. >>>>> Mike and I discussed the dramatic landing differences between our >>>>> planes and decided that maybe the nosewheel disturbs the airflow >>>>> under the flat belly of the plane. It does make for a better trainer >>>>> or transition plane than the taildragger because speed management >>>>> isn't much of an issue. Just to prove this I made a flight in my >>>>> taildragger later in the afternoon and came in hot and high because I >>>>> didn't bleed off speed on the downwind as I should have. Slipping the >>>>> tailwheel HDS just lets it gain speed even as it increases it's >>>>> descent rate, and you get the momentum right back as soon as you take >>>>> the crab angle out. Not so in Mike's plane. >>>>> Mike is getting a little bored with flying off the rest of his 40 >>>>> hours of Phase I because he us used to high performance planes that >>>>> cruse about 80 miles an hour faster than his little HDS but for the >>>>> rest of us it's a refreshing little plane with nice manners and >>>>> surprising performance for it's power. >>>>> What will Mike's Aircraft Factory come up with next? >>>>> Ron DeWees >>>>> N601TD >>>>> >> ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:55 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Craftsman Drill Press sale Gary, I always enjoy and appreciate the valuable contributions you make to the list. I have come to recognize your "style" of writing to the extent that I know it is you that is responding without having to check who the message is from. I'm sure others who have monitored the list for a long time, similarly do also. But I think I can speak for all of us in saying that all of your posts are always very clear and easy to understand. So keep it up - your contributions to the list are most welcome and much appreciated! But, in continuing with the humerous part, I must say that, as we say here, "you left yourself wide open", hence I must ask, what is your AKA or "nickname?" Robin in AR N601ZV Zen-Vair with Wynne-Vair 290 90% done, 90% to go, flight to Chapala planned Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:27 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Craftsman Drill Press sale Lets ALL take it with humor Is a fact.... Scotch Brite and Strippers will be part of this great list for ever. Here we say (hope I can translate to english): If your AKA name makes you angy... is a good one and will be with you for life. Please put a little humor on top of any building frustration... Will make building and flying our airplanes a joy. Saludos Gary Gower. Flying from Chapala, Mexico. Gary Boothe wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" Does Sears have strippers? Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, wings done, working on c-section ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:44 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tri gear vs tailwheel test flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Ron, Thanks for the great flight report. It sounds like a really nice plane. I do wonder, however, about your comment regarding stall speed and being qualified as LSA. The 51 mph sounds OK, but I would have thought the performance should be tested at full gross weight. I gathered from your report that you were probably flying solo and a couple hundred pounds under gross. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 07:08 PM 9/11/2006, you wrote: >Mike >weighs about 40 pounds more than I do so I was curious to sii if the stall >speed would be different. He gets 51 mph power off and 47 ish power >on. I seemed to get similar numbers so it is Light Sport Aircraft qualified. --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 ---------------------------------------------