---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/21/06: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: MSD GMR PIckup () 2. 04:58 AM - 701 Elev hinge plates (rhartwig11@juno.com) 3. 04:58 AM - 701 Elev hinge plates (rhartwig11@juno.com) 4. 05:36 AM - Ba De Ba De Ba De Ba De Dats all folks (Scott Thatcher) 5. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) (Garrou, Douglas) 6. 06:23 AM - Re: Ba De Ba De Ba De Ba De Dats all folks (Dave Austin) 7. 07:01 AM - Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) (Tom) 8. 07:08 AM - 701 in Alaska (Rick R) 9. 07:10 AM - Gary Liming? was :801 Builders (Propeller) (Gary Craze) 10. 07:57 AM - Re:701/alaska (Zed Smith) 11. 08:26 AM - Re: Ba De Ba De Ba De Ba De Dats all folks (Dave G.) 12. 08:54 AM - Re: 701 in Alaska (N5SL) 13. 08:59 AM - Re:701/alaska (David Barth) 14. 10:23 AM - Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) (Jay Herron) 15. 10:44 AM - Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) (Tom) 16. 10:49 AM - Re: 701 in Alaska (moorecomp) 17. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: 701 in Alaska (Rick R) 18. 12:38 PM - Aerobatics in 601 series (J2j3h4@aol.com) 19. 12:54 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Craig Payne) 20. 01:40 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (J2j3h4@aol.com) 21. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) (Dave Ruddiman) 22. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Snow Blind Curse (Bill Naumuk) 23. 03:33 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Bill Naumuk) 24. 03:35 PM - Re: Photo Share / Rock Throwing (Bill Naumuk) 25. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: It finally happened! (Bill Naumuk) 26. 03:59 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (John Marzulli) 27. 04:15 PM - Re: Re: 701 in Alaska (Rick R) 28. 04:21 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Dave G.) 29. 04:56 PM - Aerospace Logic Fuel level indicator HELP (Sigmo@aol.com) 30. 05:06 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Mike H) 31. 05:49 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Bill Naumuk) 32. 06:00 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Bill Naumuk) 33. 06:41 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Bryan Martin) 34. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: It finally happened! (Dan Lykowski) 35. 07:45 PM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Photo Share / Rock Throwing (Dave Austin) 36. 07:49 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Ron Lendon) 37. 07:53 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Craig Payne) 38. 09:30 PM - Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) (Tom) 39. 09:46 PM - Re: 601XL Flap settings (lgingell) 40. 11:23 PM - Re: Aerobatics in 601 series (Gary Gower) 41. 11:56 PM - Parking brake valve block (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:27 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: MSD GMR PIckup --> Zenith-List message posted by: I had no luck with this pick-up. I tried two different units with a VDO tach. I was not able to get any signal out of the unit. I did not have a scope but the digital meter should have detected an average voltage of 2 to 4 voilts if it was doing its job. This device is supposed to put out a 12 volt square wave of 1/3 cycle duration, thus the average expected output. MSD tech was not able to provide any useful additional information. SummitRacing was very good about the return. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "N5SL" Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: MSD GMR PIckup > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > Craig: > > This is very interesting. I read the literature and > it looks to me that the output signal is like a > signal like you would have from a gear-tooth pickup. > Like a pulse-signal, not 12V. This is GOOD because > I'm using a gear-tooth sensor that doesn't seem to be > working. My tachometer needs this type of pulse. > > The literature says you hook the GMR pickup to a 12V > trigger source and it converts it to a pulse-signal. > The question I have is: > > With points and a coil, where do you clip the GMR > pickup? The wire from the coil is grouded through a > condensor. The + wire is a steady 12V from the > battery. Is there a 12V signal somewhere in this > circuit? Does the wire plugged into the negative > terminal of the coil to the Points have a 12V signal > when the coil fires? > > Am I out of luck with this device for a coil/points > system? > > Thanks, > > Scott Laughlin > Getting ready for first engine start. > > --- Craig Payne wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > > > > Why not use the MSD GMR pick-up? Electrically > > isolated and easier to use > > than a gear tooth pick-up. > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Elev hinge plates From: rhartwig11@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com Ryan, >"and I cannot get the plate to fit between my two elevator tip rib rivets " I filed clearance for the rivet heads. Zenith personnel OKed the method. Also, on the factory demonstrator, there are two extra rivets in each of these hinge plates. I am doing that for peace of mind. >"Also, is the elevator bracket bolt hole supposed to be an interference fit?" I pressed the bolt in easily with finger pressure--a difference in drill diameter or drilling technique. I see no need for an interference fit. Rich Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Elev hinge plates From: rhartwig11@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com Ryan, >"and I cannot get the plate to fit between my two elevator tip rib rivets " I filed clearance for the rivet heads. Zenith personnel OKed the method. Also, on the factory demonstrator, there are two extra rivets in each of these hinge plates. I am doing that for peace of mind. >"Also, is the elevator bracket bolt hole supposed to be an interference fit?" I pressed the bolt in easily with finger pressure--a difference in drill diameter or drilling technique. I see no need for an interference fit. Rich Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:56 AM PST US From: "Scott Thatcher" Subject: Zenith-List: Ba De Ba De Ba De Ba De Dats all folks Hi Dave, Since I get the list digest each day rather than individual posts, I never see any of the photos and consequently never have to deal with all the downloads. If there is a picture that I think I may need to see, I can always go to the list and look it up. Anyway, you might want to give the digest a try. I don't think I could handle 68 messages per day with some 24 pictures attached without pulling out what little hair I have left! Good luck. Scott, 601XL tail, wings and Fuselage 70% with 70% to go. ************************ Time: 11:04:58 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Ba De Ba De Ba De Ba De Dats all folks With all appropriate respect, I sat for 35 -40 minutes while 24 pictures arrived, each approx. 200Kb. That seems like a 4.8 meg transmission. We've had this discussion recently. Please realize that I want to spend my money on an aeroplane, not on hi-speed internet, and my time on building, not waiting for pictures to arrive, appropriate to just a few on this chat. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) From: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" Except on a Spitfire of course!! :) We're pondering whether to go aluminum or wood for the prop on our 801. We may go with the wood just for the weight and cost savings. I'm wondering if the efficiency difference really matters much in a plane that cruises at 90 kts! Ben Haas, are you still holding out on us on the details of the latest 801 crackup? Cheers Doug Garrou Project801 www.garrou.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) From: Larry Landucci [snip] but I think the combination of a wooden prop on an all-metal airplane looks a bit odd. Larry Landucci -- N801LL ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:46 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ba De Ba De Ba De Ba De Dats all folks Thanks Scott. Your answer was the sort of answer I thought I'd get from the list. Helpful. All the best to our "Hugo Chavez" imitator.. who sent the other msg. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) From: "Tom" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" Hi guys I'm building an 801 also and bought my prop from Catto Propellors. For the price its probably a good choice until you can afford something better like a constant speed prop that reverses for when your on floats!! Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62991#62991 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:16 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Zenith-List: 701 in Alaska Does anyone know the owner of this 701 in Alaska? http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/pic06/paul701c.jpg http://www.ch701.com/ ZAC didn't...... thanks do not archive Rick Sharpsburg, GA. USA http://www.n701rr.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:51 AM PST US From: "Gary Craze" Subject: Zenith-List: Gary Liming? was :801 Builders (Propeller) Hey Gary, I'd love to hear your experience so far with the three blade (composite over wood I think?) Thanks! Gary Craze ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:49 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: re:701/alaska --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Judging from the file name on the photo I'd guess his first name is Paul. Just do a Gooooogle for Paul in Alaska....... do not archive Zed ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:22 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ba De Ba De Ba De Ba De Dats all folks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." It's all a matter of perpsective and and common sense. I get individual emails from this list, as well as three other aircraft lists two motorcycle lists and emails relating to other interests and my personal communications every day. Many come with attached files. I have my mail program set up to sort all the email into their various folders and can deal with them or not depending on the time I have. I can download headers only when I'm on dial and choose to delete them from the server or leave them for later if they have large attchments. It was a chore learning how to deal with up to hundreds of emails but it was easier than doing it manually or complaining to others to respect MY limitations. I seldom read even half the emails and simply select those that deserve attention. It's just an opinion but expecting others to limit or curtail their activities on the list because it causes a single or even a few persons some inconvenience when they haven't taken any steps to address it themselves is a little self centered. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:08 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 in Alaska --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi Rick! The owner would be "Paul" (filename: "paul701c.jpg"). Just joshing you. The FAA only has one CH701 registered in Alaska and it belongs to: ALBAUGH WILLIAM L HC 72 BOX 835 TOK, AK 99780-9410 N338WT If you change the file name so "paul701a" you will see this picture: http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/pic06/paul701a.jpg I can't make out the tail number however. You could send him a Sled-Ex message or something(Dogsled). Good luck, Scott Laughlin --- Rick R wrote: > Does anyone know the owner of this 701 in Alaska? > > > http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/pic06/paul701c.jpg > > http://www.ch701.com/ > > ZAC didn't...... > > thanks > > do not archive > > > Rick > Sharpsburg, GA. USA > http://www.n701rr.com __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:14 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Zenith-List: re:701/alaska --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Rick you should send an email to Bob Jones. He would know if anyone would. bobnpat@gci.net Good Luck Bud. David David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) From: "Jay Herron" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" Tom, I curious as to the specs on your prop. Length, pitch, # of blades??? I assume that you are installing a O360? Thanks, Jay Tom wrote: > Hi guys I'm building an 801 also and bought my prop from Catto Propellors. For the price its probably a good choice until you can afford something better like a constant speed prop that reverses for when your on floats!! > Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63030#63030 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) From: "Tom" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" My propellor is a 3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite and has a 68" Diameter x52" pitch and isgoing on my IO-360 by Teledyne Mattituck. You can checkout everything I've got on my links website. Craig Catto will make any spec you want and is good to deal with. I got the idea from Gary L. website to go with a Catto Prop. -------- Tom http://tompizza.webhop.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63035#63035 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 in Alaska From: "moorecomp" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "moorecomp" Rick, Paul Reinders Apparently, when he is not in Alaska, he works with the guys at Quality Sport Planes as a SP examiner. http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_005.htm Bottom of the page. Best to all, Craig Moore A&P 701 builder wannabe Mancelona, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63037#63037 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:30 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 in Alaska Thanks all.... do not archive moorecomp wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "moorecomp" Rick, Paul Reinders Apparently, when he is not in Alaska, he works with the guys at Quality Sport Planes as a SP examiner. http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_005.htm Bottom of the page. Best to all, Craig Moore A&P 701 builder wannabe Mancelona, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63037#63037 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:54 PM PST US From: J2j3h4@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series I know that Zenith says the planes are not intended for aerobatics, but I can't believe that a plane would be designed for +/- 6 g at gross weight without aerobatics in mind. That is stronger than the RV's or Sonex, which are rated at +6 -3 g and that is at a reduced weight. That said, I'm sure it is capable of aerobatics, but the question is "How well does it do them?" I have about 2.5 hours of aerobatic instruction plus spin training and really enjoy it. I'm not interested in competition or extreme maneuvers, but enjoy an occasional loop or roll and combinations thereof. I've read many accounts from RV and Sonex pilots about how pleasant their planes are to fly in aerobatics, but I've never read any from Zenith pilots. I did read that Chris Heintz said (off the record) that the 601 is very pleasant in aerobatics, but I've never read any other comments. I have searched the archives, but didn't find anyone that said they had done aerobatics. C'mon guys, surely SOMEONE has. Breathes there a man with soul so dead That never to himself has said "Hey what happens if I do this" (With apologies to Sir Walter Scott) I am trying to decide between a Zenith and a Sonex. The Zenith seems preferable as a plane for cross country, but I just want to do something different once in a while. My final choice will probably be based on whether and how well (in terms of pleasant handling) the Zenith will do aerobatics. Jim Hasper ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:23 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series >> I am trying to decide between a Zenith and a Sonex. Have you sat in both? The Sonex is said to be tighter. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:04 PM PST US From: J2j3h4@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series Yes. The Sonex is comparable to a Cessna 152, while the Zenith is like a 172. Both are doable, but as I said the Zenith is unquestionably more comfortable for cross country, especially for two. However, 95% of my flying would be solo and local, and the aerobatics is more important to me. Jim Do not archive In a message dated 9/21/2006 3:02:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, craig@craigandjean.com writes: >> I am trying to decide between a Zenith and a Sonex. Have you sat in both? The Sonex is said to be tighter. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:05 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Tom, How long before you are flying? I'm really curious about the performance of the Catto prop. Dave in Salem 801 no engine or prop yet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom" Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" > > My propellor is a 3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite and has a 68" Diameter > x52" pitch and isgoing on my IO-360 by Teledyne Mattituck. You can > checkout everything I've got on my links website. Craig Catto will make > any spec you want and is good to deal with. I got the idea from Gary L. > website to go with a Catto Prop. > > -------- > Tom > http://tompizza.webhop.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63035#63035 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:10 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Snow Blind Curse MessageZodie- Being a patriotic Canadian, I'll bet you used the "Handyman's secret" instead of rivets on your HD, too. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series Craig- Everything's a tradeoff. You could scratchbuild a Sonex for about 1/2 the final price of a Zenith, but I'm sorry, the Sonex ranks in the top 10 ugliest aircraft of all time. Sort of like that Toyota Scion breadbox. Reliable, functional, affordable, but you have to park it in a dark alley behind a dumpster. You know, someone had a "Low and slow" clip from Youtube a couple of days ago. I was really impressed, but my question is, "What was the guy flying?" The pilot did a nice Immelman on the way home. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series >> I am trying to decide between a Zenith and a Sonex. Have you sat in both? The Sonex is said to be tighter. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:21 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Photo Share / Rock Throwing Randy- What engine? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Stout To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:37 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Photo Share / Rock Throwing I think everyone on this list is very familiar with the Delete key and its use. The problem is that most people with dialup have to wait for the message to download before they can hit the delete key. If there is a large file attached, that might mean waiting for 40 minutes. Now put the rocks down and get back to building. do not archive Randy Stout San Antonio, TX n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 Waiting and waiting and waiting for my engine ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:07 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: It finally happened! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Dan- Forgive my ignorance, but speaking of pickups, does the Dynan connect to a standard pitot/static tube, something task dedicated, or is it totally independent? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:02 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series I beleive that was an RV-7 in the "Low and Slow" clip. On 9/21/06, Bill Naumuk wrote: > > Craig- > Everything's a tradeoff. You could scratchbuild a Sonex for about 1/2 > the final price of a Zenith, but I'm sorry, the Sonex ranks in the top 10 > ugliest aircraft of all time. Sort of like that Toyota Scion breadbox. > Reliable, functional, affordable, but you have to park it in a dark alley > behind a dumpster. > You know, someone had a "Low and slow" clip from Youtube a couple of > days ago. I was really impressed, but my question is, "What was the guy > flying?" The pilot did a nice Immelman on the way home. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Craig Payne > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:53 PM > *Subject:* RE: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series > > >> I am trying to decide between a Zenith and a Sonex. > > Have you sat in both? The Sonex is said to be tighter. > > -- Craig > > * > > > * > > * > > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:21 PM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 in Alaska Whoops... Thanks guys, ...found him. do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:48 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series I'm fairly sure that was an RV in that clip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series Craig- Everything's a tradeoff. You could scratchbuild a Sonex for about 1/2 the final price of a Zenith, but I'm sorry, the Sonex ranks in the top 10 ugliest aircraft of all time. Sort of like that Toyota Scion breadbox. Reliable, functional, affordable, but you have to park it in a dark alley behind a dumpster. You know, someone had a "Low and slow" clip from Youtube a couple of days ago. I was really impressed, but my question is, "What was the guy flying?" The pilot did a nice Immelman on the way home. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:40 PM PST US From: Sigmo@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Aerospace Logic Fuel level indicator HELP I've installed the Aerospace logic FL100-R dual tank indicator in my 601XL with float type senders.The sender range is from 10 ohms empty to 180 ohms full. The first instrument came apart at the switch and a month and a half and over $500 later I received a replacent from them. The replacement will not calibrate and sends error messages indicating the senders are not operating properly (error 5 and 3). I have pulled and verified all the wireing and have cut holes in the wings to pull the senders to verify that they worked properly. Has anyone had any experience with this instrument? The company does not return calls or e-mails. I have over $1,000.00 tied up in this instrument now and sure hate to start over with another type instrument. Mike Sigman N7092N 601XL ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:48 PM PST US From: "Mike H" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series I am glad you asked this question, I was about to post the same question. So far, not much response to the original question. I am building a XL myself and do not plan on doing rolls or loops. My initial, and very amateur thought, would be that the sonex would be a better performer of aerobatics... More sensitive plane, shorter wing design.. etc.. FWIF when I LOOK at the Sonex, I think performance! I look past the uglyness. But, since I weigh 230lbs and most my passengers seem to weigh near that, the Sonex was just too small a plane for me. Hope this helps. mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series I'm fairly sure that was an RV in that clip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series Craig- Everything's a tradeoff. You could scratchbuild a Sonex for about 1/2 the final price of a Zenith, but I'm sorry, the Sonex ranks in the top 10 ugliest aircraft of all time. Sort of like that Toyota Scion breadbox. Reliable, functional, affordable, but you have to park it in a dark alley behind a dumpster. You know, someone had a "Low and slow" clip from Youtube a couple of days ago. I was really impressed, but my question is, "What was the guy flying?" The pilot did a nice Immelman on the way home. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:04 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series Mike- "Elbow room" was a major consideration in my choosing a Zenith over a Sonex (Or KR-2, for that matter) too. Once you're faced with paying for an engine, there's no doubt about it. You get more scoot for the buck with a VW powered Sonex, but........ Like I said- everything's a tradeoff. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike H To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series I am glad you asked this question, I was about to post the same question. So far, not much response to the original question. I am building a XL myself and do not plan on doing rolls or loops. My initial, and very amateur thought, would be that the sonex would be a better performer of aerobatics... More sensitive plane, shorter wing design.. etc.. FWIF when I LOOK at the Sonex, I think performance! I look past the uglyness. But, since I weigh 230lbs and most my passengers seem to weigh near that, the Sonex was just too small a plane for me. Hope this helps. mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series I'm fairly sure that was an RV in that clip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series Craig- Everything's a tradeoff. You could scratchbuild a Sonex for about 1/2 the final price of a Zenith, but I'm sorry, the Sonex ranks in the top 10 ugliest aircraft of all time. Sort of like that Toyota Scion breadbox. Reliable, functional, affordable, but you have to park it in a dark alley behind a dumpster. You know, someone had a "Low and slow" clip from Youtube a couple of days ago. I was really impressed, but my question is, "What was the guy flying?" The pilot did a nice Immelman on the way home. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:28 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series RV? OK. No matter what- It'd be a blast to fly with that guy. Interesting thought. In what pastime other than flying is being safe, conservative and boring considered a mark of excellence? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:29 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series The Zenith web site lists +/- 6 gs as the "ultimate" load factor for the Zodiac XL. I take that to mean the design load factor; the loading that may cause the wings to fall off if exceeded at gross weight. The maximum safe in-flight g loading of an airplane at gross weight is the flight load factor and is usually rated at 2/3 of its design load factor. In the case of the Zodiac, that would be +/- 4 g. The g loadings listed on the Sonex and RV web sites appear to be flight load factors. On Sep 21, 2006, at 3:35 PM, J2j3h4@aol.com wrote: > > I know that Zenith says the planes are not intended for aerobatics, > but I can't believe that a plane would be designed for +/- 6 g at > gross weight without aerobatics in mind. That is stronger than the > RV's or Sonex, which are rated at +6 -3 g and that is at a reduced > weight. > > That said, I'm sure it is capable of aerobatics, but the question > is "How well does it do them?" I have about 2.5 hours of aerobatic > instruction plus spin training and really enjoy it. I'm not > interested in competition or extreme maneuvers, but enjoy an > occasional loop or roll and combinations thereof. I've read many > accounts from RV and Sonex pilots about how pleasant their planes > are to fly in aerobatics, but I've never read any from Zenith > pilots. I did read that Chris Heintz said (off the record) that > the 601 is very pleasant in aerobatics, but I've never read any > other comments. > > Jim Hasper -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:41 PM PST US From: Dan Lykowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: It finally happened! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Lykowski Bill, The Dynon needs to be connected to a pitot/static system. Which brand/kind of system is up to you. However, if you want to get angle of attack, you have to use the pitot that we sell. Dan Lykowski Dynon Avionics --- Bill Naumuk wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > > Dan- > Forgive my ignorance, but speaking of pickups, > does the Dynan connect to > a standard pitot/static tube, something task > dedicated, or is it totally > independent? > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:18 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Zenith-List: Photo Share / Rock Throwing To afterfxllc, I guess we are using quite different systems. I cannot stop the attachment download with the delete key. That just deletes the msg prior to the one downloading and the attachment continues to download. If you stop the attachment downloading then you lose all following msgs. The other approach is to use the daily summary, but that means opening each msg as an internet msg. NOT a good way when on dial-up. But at least it is possible to delete msgs with huge attachments. Remember, Matte put a limit of 1 meg attachments a couple of months ago due to this very discussion. Could we respect that without slinging insults and expletives? Not all parts of the world are wired for hi speed. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII Do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aerobatics in 601 series From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" OK, after taking one flight in the XL I was convinced it was the machine for me. The day was clear but gusty. Flight Service was reporting 20 gusting to 35. It really felt more like 15 with gusts to 30. Anyway up we went for my maiden XL flight. The take offs and landing were performed by the instructor with me following on the controls. I flew it un-assisted and tracked headings, steep turns and all the practical pilot maneuvers. The impression of this plane is stable with great rudder authority. All the landings were crosswind that day. If I were looking for an areobatic plane this wouldn't be the one. But I am looking for stable cross country machine that I can build from plans. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63149#63149 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:19 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series The comments below the video said it was an RV4. I was more curious what river in Washington it was. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Builders (Propeller) From: "Tom" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" I'm kinda afraid to say because I've been saying a couple of months for the past three years but seriously now............ about a couple of months. [Shocked] -------- Tom http://tompizza.webhop.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63161#63161 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Flap settings From: "lgingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" I had limited flap travel too. I think it was in the low 20's of degrees. Since I've been flying, I find I use about half of the travel I have at most, so I'd be inclined not to mess with it...unless you have a very short field. ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp 111hrs XL/3300 -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63162#63162 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:57 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aerobatics in 601 series Hello Jim, Better will be if you go snd build an RV-4 that one is OK for aerobatics... Happy flying. Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. J2j3h4@aol.com wrote: I know that Zenith says the planes are not intended for aerobatics, but I can't believe that a plane would be designed for +/- 6 g at gross weight without aerobatics in mind. That is stronger than the RV's or Sonex, which are rated at +6 -3 g and that is at a reduced weight. That said, I'm sure it is capable of aerobatics, but the question is "How well does it do them?" I have about 2.5 hours of aerobatic instruction plus spin training and really enjoy it. I'm not interested in competition or extreme maneuvers, but enjoy an occasional loop or roll and combinations thereof. I've read many accounts from RV and Sonex pilots about how pleasant their planes are to fly in aerobatics, but I've never read any from Zenith pilots. I did read that Chris Heintz said (off the record) that the 601 is very pleasant in aerobatics, but I've never read any other comments. I have searched the archives, but didn't find anyone that said they had done aerobatics. C'mon guys, surely SOMEONE has. Breathes there a man with soul so dead That never to himself has said "Hey what happens if I do this" (With apologies to Sir Walter Scott) I am trying to decide between a Zenith and a Sonex. The Zenith seems preferable as a plane for cross country, but I just want to do something different once in a while. My final choice will probably be based on whether and how well (in terms of pleasant handling) the Zenith will do aerobatics. Jim Hasper _ --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:32 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Parking brake valve block Does anyone know where to get a valve block to use for a parking brake on a 601XL? The attached picture is what I think I want but it is of Dragonfly Aviation's plane which has dual brake pedals. My plane has the standard single set of brake pedals. -- Craig