---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/24/06: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:41 AM - Re: 701 Trim tab (Graeme Bell) 2. 04:57 AM - Removing Rivets (leinad) 3. 06:47 AM - Re: Removing Rivets (Dino Bortolin) 4. 07:30 AM - Re: Removing Rivets (LRM) 5. 08:28 AM - Re: Removing Rivets (Bill Naumuk) 6. 08:40 AM - Solid rivet gun question (Debo Cox) 7. 08:53 AM - CH801 WEB PICTURE GALLERY (Tom) 8. 09:10 AM - Spar question (Bolding) 9. 09:15 AM - Re: CH801 WEB PICTURE GALLERY (ihab.awad@gmail.com) 10. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 11. 09:33 AM - Re: Solid rivet gun question (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 10:03 AM - Re: Spar question (Bill Naumuk) 13. 10:23 AM - Re: Work Table Height (lwinger) 14. 11:23 AM - RE : Re: WEB PICTURE GALLERY (Carlos Sa) 15. 11:25 AM - Re: Solid rivet gun question (Jim Hoak) 16. 11:30 AM - Re: Spar question (Jim Hoak) 17. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Work Table Height (Bill Naumuk) 18. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: WEB PICTURE GALLERY (George Harris) 19. 12:15 PM - Re: Solid rivet gun question (Dave Ruddiman) 20. 12:15 PM - Re: RE : Re: WEB PICTURE GALLERY (ernie) 21. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try (george may) 22. 02:34 PM - Fuselage support (Jaybannist@cs.com) 23. 03:09 PM - Re: Solid rivet gun question (Tim & Diane Shankland) 24. 03:25 PM - Using car polishing compound on 6061-T6 (William Dominguez) 25. 07:52 PM - Brand of Intsruments (4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons)) 26. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: WEB PICTURE GALLERY (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:39 AM PST US From: "Graeme Bell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Trim tab I think you will find that rather than add a trim tab the prefered method is to bend the trailing edge of the aileron for roll wing heavy' a similar fix for pitch trim is adjust the trailing edge of the elevator ----- Original Message ----- From: nyterminat@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Trim tab I changed the bungee on the elevator cable to the other cable and that cleared up my left wing heavy condition, simple fix. Bob Spudis N701ZX CH701/912S 82hrs -----Original Message----- From: savannah174@msn.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Trim tab I would like to talk with anyone using a trim tab on the ailerons due to a wing heavy condition on a CH-701. I've tried twisting the wing via wing struts, checked rigging, slats all within required tolerances. The trim tab seems to be the only option left unless one of the 701 Guru's can come up with another option, thanks RJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 2/06/2006 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets From: "leinad" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" First, I'll come clean. I used the wrong rivets in building my main spars. I found out before assembly the rest of the wing. These were the soft type A rivets not the required AD rivets. For those of you interested in technic for removing rivets here's what I use. First it's hard to get the drill in the center of a domed rivet head. I made a tool to simplify the job. The tool was just a short thick hex bolt, about 1/2 X 1-1/2 length. I center drilled this out the rivet diameter. On the hex end I opened the hole up the diameter of the rivet head. You can hold this down on the rivet head with one hand and drill the head until the hole is started. This puts it in the center every time. For my spars I made on for the #6 and one for the #5 size rivets. Now I just hand hold the drill until I've drill just down to the surface of the part. Some times the head comes off at this point, some times you have to scrape it off with a screw driver or chisle. After removing the head you need to drive the rivet out. I made a punch with a nail ground flat on the end. The nail should be small enough to fit loosely in a hole the size of the rivet hole. Lay the part (spar in my case) flat on the bench and use narrow pieces of wood adjacent to the rivet you're going to drive out. Now just drive the sucker out. I used the above method to remove all the rivets from my main spars and the parts were undamaged. Dan Dempsey (central VA) -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63542#63542 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:58 AM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets While we're talking about removing rivets, I was struggling with removing some A5's from my stabilizer spar; it seems you always need three hands. I spotted my automatic center punch on the table and found what I think is an easier method. I've only used it (so far) on pulled rivets on the stab spar, which is fairly rigid - it may not work well on solid rivets or thinner material. The steps are: 1. Leave the mandrel in place. Drill the rivet head slowly with the same size drill as the rivet hole just until the head falls off. 2. Use the automatic center punch to pop the rest of the rivet out. It will be ejected cleanly and easily. Stubborn ones may take a few hits. I put a little piece of rubber around the tip of the punch to cushion any contact between the body of the punch and the aluminum. Dino Bortolin La Salle, Ontario XL/Corvair On 9/24/06, leinad wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" > > ... > > After removing the head you need to drive the rivet out. I made a punch > with a nail ground flat on the end. The nail should be small enough to fit > loosely in a hole the size of the rivet hole. > > ... > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:54 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets Since Jon Croke and I are rivet removing experts here is how we do it. Use an old rivet stem or better yet get the right size drift. It should be the same as the A5 stem or a little smaller. First punch you stem down a little with the drift, them drill the head. That's it, nothing to it. The head will pop off and the base will fall out. Jon has a lot more experience than me, he probably has removed thousands of rivets. I've only removed hundreds. Larry N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dino Bortolin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets While we're talking about removing rivets, I was struggling with removing some A5's from my stabilizer spar; it seems you always need three hands. I spotted my automatic center punch on the table and found what I think is an easier method. I've only used it (so far) on pulled rivets on the stab spar, which is fairly rigid - it may not work well on solid rivets or thinner material. The steps are: 1. Leave the mandrel in place. Drill the rivet head slowly with the same size drill as the rivet hole just until the head falls off. 2. Use the automatic center punch to pop the rest of the rivet out. It will be ejected cleanly and easily. Stubborn ones may take a few hits. I put a little piece of rubber around the tip of the punch to cushion any contact between the body of the punch and the aluminum. Dino Bortolin La Salle, Ontario XL/Corvair On 9/24/06, leinad wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" ... After removing the head you need to drive the rivet out. I made a punch with a nail ground flat on the end. The nail should be small enough to fit loosely in a hole the size of the rivet hole. ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/21/2006 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:55 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets My method for pulled rivets is about the same. Use the next size bigger drill to pop off the head. Don't push too hard and you won't do any damage, but the larger diameter bit gives you more torque. Drive the mandrel out using the stem of a similar size rivet. If you have a really stubborn one that can't be pulled out by hand at this point (Like a rivet going through an extrusion), drill through the middle using a bit suitable for silver clecos to weaken the walls. Without the mandrel, you get a straight hole and most of the time, the remaining rivet will come out while you're drilling. A tap with a center punch or gentle tug with regular pliers will free the rest. For solid rivets and spar work, I used my drill press and a roller stand. Incidentally, when I said in an earlier post that I thought all spar rivets were ADs, I meant that all rivets used in spars were ADs, not that all rivets were ADs. Anyway, if you don't have the dimple in your rivet and want to find center, use a lathe center drill. These are bits with a huge shank that tapers down to the final diameter with an extremely short final diameter bit length. They DON'T creep on you. Attached is a link to a reputable supplier. http://www.jlindustrial.com/endeca/searchResults.jsp;jsessionid=DOEGPRY ARBV5PLAUBIWCFEVMCQFC0IV0?_dyncharset=ASCII&ns=1&Ntt=center+drills& Ntk=Keyword+Search Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: LRM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets Since Jon Croke and I are rivet removing experts here is how we do it. Use an old rivet stem or better yet get the right size drift. It should be the same as the A5 stem or a little smaller. First punch you stem down a little with the drift, them drill the head. That's it, nothing to it. The head will pop off and the base will fall out. Jon has a lot more experience than me, he probably has removed thousands of rivets. I've only removed hundreds. Larry N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dino Bortolin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets While we're talking about removing rivets, I was struggling with removing some A5's from my stabilizer spar; it seems you always need three hands. I spotted my automatic center punch on the table and found what I think is an easier method. I've only used it (so far) on pulled rivets on the stab spar, which is fairly rigid - it may not work well on solid rivets or thinner material. The steps are: 1. Leave the mandrel in place. Drill the rivet head slowly with the same size drill as the rivet hole just until the head falls off. 2. Use the automatic center punch to pop the rest of the rivet out. It will be ejected cleanly and easily. Stubborn ones may take a few hits. I put a little piece of rubber around the tip of the punch to cushion any contact between the body of the punch and the aluminum. Dino Bortolin La Salle, Ontario XL/Corvair On 9/24/06, leinad wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" ... After removing the head you need to drive the rivet out. I made a punch with a nail ground flat on the end. The nail should be small enough to fit loosely in a hole the size of the rivet hole. ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 9/21/2006 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:08 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question Hi guys, I'm starting to do a bit of solid riveting with my center spar and outboard wing spars. I've found that using a pneumatic gun gives me excellent control, and has me bucking solid rivets like a pro - although I haven't started riveting the actual parts yet. Here's my question though... I've been practicing using the "air chisel" that came with my compressor. The rivet sets have the same .401 shank, and fit into it perfectly. If I crank the regulator wide open on the tool itself, it will set the rivet almost perfectly in one or two reasonably short trigger pulls. As long as it does a good job and doesn't apparantly crack or otherwise damage the rivets, does anyone see any problem with using my "air chisel" instead of a dedicated "rivet gun?" In my uneducated perspective, they appear to do almost exactly the same thing, but I know that the rivet gun hammers more slowly. Any good solid (no pun intended) advice on this would be appreciated. I'd rather not buy a tool to do exactly the same thing as the one I've got if there's no difference. And yes, I know a hammer will work too. I'm just looking for information from someone who knows more than I do about the subject. Build on my brothers! Debo Cox XL/Corvair Working on wing spars --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH801 WEB PICTURE GALLERY From: "Tom" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" I'm trying GOOGLE web photo gallery which was very simple to use and upload my plane pictures to using GOOGLE's Picasa photo software. I think this would help with people on dial-up so if anyone is on dial-up let me know how things look. Go to my updated website! -------- Tom CH801 http://tompizza.webhop.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63582#63582 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:50 AM PST US From: "Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bolding" Time:>Those "A" rivets sure were easy to set though weren't they? > >I'm glad you caught this. It would have been a bad situation if you hadn't. >I know of a Thorpe T-18 that came apart in flight because the builder did >the same thing but no one caught it! > >Jim Hoak Unfortunatly this HAD been pointed out to him but he ignored it, it is reported that he used words to the effect " Won't make any difference, this airplane is so overbuilt....." The joint is question was between the center section and outer panels and called for Hi-Shear rivets, he used regular AD's. That joint was analyzed after the accident and was found to be good for less than 2 G's so friction between the two surfaces was helping out a bunch. Unfortunatly it happened in front of the crowd at Osh and the FOOL did a steep pullup with a teenage girl as a passenger. Next door neighbor built TWO T18's from scratch and presented all this info at a chapter meeting 20-25 yrs ago, have no clue why I remember this , can't remember what I had for breakfast. Low & Slow John ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:37 AM PST US From: ihab.awad@gmail.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH801 WEB PICTURE GALLERY --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com Hi Tom & all, On 9/24/06, Tom wrote: > I'm trying GOOGLE web photo gallery which was very simple to use ... I concur -- I use it all the time and it's great. One other helpful Googley thing is GMail, which is a Web based email program that automatically shows image attachments as "thumbnails" allowing you to decide whether or not you want to download the whole thing. You need an "invitation" to join GMail but, if anyone on this list wants one, just shoot me an email -- I have a bunch to give out. Hope this helps. Ihab -- Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:28 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try George, if you crap out in New York your welcome to come to Georgia and fly my XL, Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:05 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question Debo, the difference in the two hammer guns is that the gun designed for riveting has a variable speed trigger that allows the user a smack or two (depending on control techniques) with gentle pull and that can be important when starting a rivet in a difficult location. On the other hand, an air chisel has only the one speed, full blast, Best of luck, Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:21 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Just to make sure- the HDS plans call for standard ADs, right? Or did I miss something? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bolding" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Spar question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bolding" > > Time:>Those "A" rivets sure were easy to set though weren't they? >> >>I'm glad you caught this. It would have been a bad situation if you >>hadn't. >>I know of a Thorpe T-18 that came apart in flight because the builder did >>the same thing but no one caught it! >> >>Jim Hoak > > Unfortunatly this HAD been pointed out to him but he ignored it, it is > reported that he used words to the effect " Won't make any difference, > this airplane is so overbuilt....." The joint is question was between the > center section and outer panels and called for Hi-Shear rivets, he used > regular AD's. That joint was analyzed after the accident and was found to > be good for less than 2 G's so friction between the two surfaces was > helping out a bunch. Unfortunatly it happened in front of the crowd at Osh > and the FOOL did a steep pullup with a teenage girl as a passenger. Next > door neighbor built TWO T18's from scratch and presented all this info at > a chapter meeting 20-25 yrs ago, have no clue why I remember this , can't > remember what I had for breakfast. Low & Slow John > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Work Table Height From: "lwinger" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" Thanks to you guys for the responses. My conclusion is that I will keep my worktable at a comfortable height for work on the wings and control surfaces, and either shorten them as I get into the fuselage work or, more likely, construct a 601XL version of Larry MacFarland's cruciform jig. I don't want to send anyone scurrying to their workshop, but I never actually received the physical dimension from worktable surface to the top of the highest part of the assembled fuselage (before placing it on mains). I'd still be interested if anyone has that measurement. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Stabilizer skeleton ready to rivet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63603#63603 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:43 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: WEB PICTURE GALLERY --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Yahoo mail also presents a thumbnail, like Gmail - but in a dumb way: first, the image file is downloaded to the user's PC; only then it gets reduced in size (actually, by the browser). So Yahoo isn't a solution for people with dial up. Also, many ISPs allow you to get your email with a browser (MS IE, Firefox, etc.). This may be a good alternative. Carlos CH601-HD, plans All skins for one outboard wing polished. Assembly is next. --- ihab.awad@gmail.com a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > ... One other helpful > Googley thing is GMail, which is a Web based email program that > automatically shows image attachments as "thumbnails" allowing you to > decide whether or not you want to download the whole thing. You need > an "invitation" to join GMail but, if anyone on this list wants one, > just shoot me an email -- I have a bunch to give out. Hope this helps. > > Ihab > __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:07 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question Debo, Just my opinion, but I believe a trained one, Bill Phillips is mostly correct about the rivet guns versus Air Hammers. In certain situations, an Air Hammer will get you by, but it would be a shame to have a mess up at the end of a long line of rivets because the shooter couldn't control that last blap! I'm not saying you can't do it because I'm sure it has been done with a Air Hammer before. The big thing is no damage to the metal ( deformed ) and the rivet isn't cracked or overshot at the bucked tail. Maybe you can borrow a good 3X gun from someone. You have to be pleased with the results and the process that gets you there. Good luck - have fun. do not archive Jim Hoak 601HD Rotax 912UL 530 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Debo Cox To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:36 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question Hi guys, I'm starting to do a bit of solid riveting with my center spar and outboard wing spars. I've found that using a pneumatic gun gives me excellent control, and has me bucking solid rivets like a pro - although I haven't started riveting the actual parts yet. Here's my question though... I've been practicing using the "air chisel" that came with my compressor. The rivet sets have the same .401 shank, and fit into it perfectly. If I crank the regulator wide open on the tool itself, it will set the rivet almost perfectly in one or two reasonably short trigger pulls. As long as it does a good job and doesn't apparantly crack or otherwise damage the rivets, does anyone see any problem with using my "air chisel" instead of a dedicated "rivet gun?" In my uneducated perspective, they appear to do almost exactly the same thing, but I know that the rivet gun hammers more slowly. Any good solid (no pun intended) advice on this would be appreciated. I'd rather not buy a tool to do exactly the same thing as the one I've got if there's no difference. And yes, I know a hammer will work too. I'm just looking for information from someone who knows more than I do about the subject. Build on my brothers! Debo Cox XL/Corvair Working on wing spars ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:00 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" John, Thanks for the memory jogger about the T-18. That was the same incident I was recalling with some errors. Shame it happened. do not archive Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bolding" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Spar question > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:14 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Work Table Height --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Larry- That dimension would be in the plans, unless you misworded your question. Think about it. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "lwinger" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Work Table Height > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" > > Thanks to you guys for the responses. My conclusion is that I will keep > my worktable at a comfortable height for work on the wings and control > surfaces, and either shorten them as I get into the fuselage work or, more > likely, construct a 601XL version of Larry MacFarland's cruciform jig. > > I don't want to send anyone scurrying to their workshop, but I never > actually received the physical dimension from worktable surface to the top > of the highest part of the assembled fuselage (before placing it on > mains). I'd still be interested if anyone has that measurement. > > -------- > Larry Winger > Tustin, CA > 601XL #6493 from scratch > Stabilizer skeleton ready to rivet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63603#63603 > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:31 PM PST US From: "George Harris" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: WEB PICTURE GALLERY --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Harris" Net friends, As a response to the pcture uploading dilemma facing dial-up users and others who don't want to be force-fed large files, I have installed a photo gallery application on my Aeroinsanity webspace. It is at http://www.aeroinsanity.com/gallery2/main.php . It is free. It is offered as a gift to the online builder community. This app will let you create your own user accounts, and then create as many photo albums as you want. You can then simply include a link to the gallery in your emails. The site uses thumbnails, and is devoid of any pop-ups, advertising, or any other nonsense that would slow down picture loading. No user-entered information will ever be used for anything. I have about 3 gig of space so that should last a while. Please don't upload anything offensive. Feel free to log in and play around with the gallery features. It's pretty nice really. You don't have to register to view the uploaded files either. In case you don't know who or what I am, I lurk on several exp lists, mainly Zenith/Corvair/KR. I'm hosting John Kearney's Corvair instrumentation pages too, at http://www.aeroinsanity.com/corvair/datalogger/ . Feel free to email me any questions at george AT customcals.com. If you do, or don't like the gallery I'd appreciate some feedback. Oh, by the way, there's a classifieds application too, at http://aeroinsanity.com/classifieds/ - can't promise much traffic though, unless folks start using it. Thanks, George Harris Casa Grande, AZ EAA 0571660 EAA Chapter 1217 -- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:31 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question Debo, I have an old 3X rivet gun you can use. It's just sitting in the drawer. I can send it to you if you want it. Dave in Salem 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hoak To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question Debo, Just my opinion, but I believe a trained one, Bill Phillips is mostly correct about the rivet guns versus Air Hammers. In certain situations, an Air Hammer will get you by, but it would be a shame to have a mess up at the end of a long line of rivets because the shooter couldn't control that last blap! I'm not saying you can't do it because I'm sure it has been done with a Air Hammer before. The big thing is no damage to the metal ( deformed ) and the rivet isn't cracked or overshot at the bucked tail. Maybe you can borrow a good 3X gun from someone. You have to be pleased with the results and the process that gets you there. Good luck - have fun. do not archive Jim Hoak 601HD Rotax 912UL 530 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Debo Cox To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:36 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question Hi guys, I'm starting to do a bit of solid riveting with my center spar and outboard wing spars. I've found that using a pneumatic gun gives me excellent control, and has me bucking solid rivets like a pro - although I haven't started riveting the actual parts yet. Here's my question though... I've been practicing using the "air chisel" that came with my compressor. The rivet sets have the same .401 shank, and fit into it perfectly. If I crank the regulator wide open on the tool itself, it will set the rivet almost perfectly in one or two reasonably short trigger pulls. As long as it does a good job and doesn't apparantly crack or otherwise damage the rivets, does anyone see any problem with using my "air chisel" instead of a dedicated "rivet gun?" In my uneducated perspective, they appear to do almost exactly the same thing, but I know that the rivet gun hammers more slowly. Any good solid (no pun intended) advice on this would be appreciated. I'd rather not buy a tool to do exactly the same thing as the one I've got if there's no difference. And yes, I know a hammer will work too. I'm just looking for information from someone who knows more than I do about the subject. Build on my brothers! Debo Cox XL/Corvair Working on wing spars ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:44 PM PST US From: ernie Subject: Re: RE : Re: Zenith-List: WEB PICTURE GALLERY http://picasa.google.com/ you can post web albums. Do not Archive On 9/24/06, Carlos Sa wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Yahoo mail also presents a thumbnail, like Gmail - but in a dumb way: > first, the image file is > downloaded to the user's PC; only then it gets reduced in size (actually, > by the browser). > So Yahoo isn't a solution for people with dial up. > > Also, many ISPs allow you to get your email with a browser (MS IE, > Firefox, etc.). > This may be a good alternative. > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > All skins for one outboard wing polished. Assembly is next. > > --- ihab.awad@gmail.com a =E9crit : > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > > ... One other helpful > > Googley thing is GMail, which is a Web based email program that > > automatically shows image attachments as "thumbnails" allowing you to > > decide whether or not you want to download the whole thing. You need > > an "invitation" to join GMail but, if anyone on this list wants one, > > just shoot me an email -- I have a bunch to give out. Hope this helps. > > > > Ihab > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > L=E8che-vitrine ou l=E8che-=E9cran ? > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:09 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Thanks Bill, Georgia would be really nice at this time of year George do not archive >From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try >Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:22:23 EDT > >George, if you crap out in New York your welcome to come to Georgia and fly >my XL, Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:29 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Zenith-List: Fuselage support To other builders, wiser than me and further along than me: I am at a point on my XL fuselage where I need to do work on the bottom, from underneath. The fuselage is now supported as shown in the photo guide: one support at the tail, two sawhorses (crosswise), two steel beans (lengthwise) and the required shims. The beams and shims prevent access to some of the rivet lines and especially access to the main gear channel. I am thinking about leaving the support at the tail (possibly lowered) and using two crosswise supports, one just forward of the wing spar center section and one just forward or aft of the rear wing channel (I haven't riveted the channel to the floor as yet). I certainly don't want to put stresses in the fuselage where they would be detrimental. If these points are acceptable, it would be very helpful to have recommended relative heights for these points above some common datum. Suggestions for other support schemes that might be easier or better would be welcomed. I have also sent this message to ZAC, but don't expect a straight answer. Jay in Dallas, working on fuselage N2630J ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:50 PM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid rivet gun question I have been following this thread for some time. I also made my own spars several; years ago now. I did the riveting by hand by making fixture similar to those you can buy. I bought a :"socket " that fit the rivet head and a "C clamp " fixture that held a rod that rested on the worked end of the rivet. I found it took two blows with a heavy hammer, once I had that figured out it was just put in the rivet bang bang and on to the next. I think I drilled out two or three rivets in total for all three spars. Tim Shankland Debo Cox wrote: > Hi guys, > > I'm starting to do a bit of solid riveting with my center spar and > outboard wing spars. I've found that using a pneumatic gun gives me > excellent control, and has me bucking solid rivets like a pro - > although I haven't started riveting the actual parts yet. Here's my > question though... > > I've been practicing using the "air chisel" that came with my > compressor. The rivet sets have the same .401 shank, and fit into it > perfectly. If I crank the regulator wide open on the tool itself, it > will set the rivet almost perfectly in one or two reasonably short > trigger pulls. As long as it does a good job and doesn't apparantly > crack or otherwise damage the rivets, does anyone see any problem with > using my "air chisel" instead of a dedicated "rivet gun?" In my > uneducated perspective, they appear to do almost exactly the same > thing, but I know that the rivet gun hammers more slowly. > > Any good solid (no pun intended) advice on this would be appreciated. > I'd rather not buy a tool to do exactly the same thing as the one I've > got if there's no difference. And yes, I know a hammer will work too. > I'm just looking for information from someone who knows more than I do > about the subject. Build on my brothers! > > Debo Cox > XL/Corvair > Working on wing spars > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:25 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Zenith-List: Using car polishing compound on 6061-T6 I just tried car polishing compound on the aluminum in order to remove corrosion and those pesky white spots caused by sweat and it removed it without leaving scratches. I then used denatured alcohol to remove the compound and the material was left pretty shiny. I used scrap material. I would like to know if this is acceptable and if there is any risk that this may cause any further problem in the long run. Im planning to order Alumiprep 33 if this method is not acceptable. William Dominguez Zodiac 601 XL Plans www.ea-report.com (on hold) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:48 PM PST US From: 4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) Subject: Zenith-List: Brand of Intsruments Hey folks, To those of you who replied on my question of gauges for the 601 Thanks! Now, another! What about Brands! Falcon, UMA, Allen, Sigma Tek, or any others? What is good and what is junk? I would like to hear some opinions/experiences since I dont really have a history with these coponents. -- Thanks again, Rich Simmons I am getting ready to close the Left wong for my 601 XL. I will be done by the end of the week and then I will start the R/H! :)
Hey folks,
 
To those of you who replied on my question of gauges for the 601 Thanks!
 
Now, another! What about Brands! Falcon, UMA, Allen, Sigma Tek, or any others? What is good and what is junk?
 
I would like to hear some opinions/experiences since I dont really have a history with these coponents.
 
--
Thanks again,
Rich Simmons
 
I am getting ready to close the Left wong for my 601 XL. I will be done by the end of the week and then I will start the R/H! :)
________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:50 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: WEB PICTURE GALLERY Thanks a lot George, We appreciate that, hope to beguin using the pages soon. Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. Do not archive. George Harris wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Harris" Net friends, As a response to the pcture uploading dilemma facing dial-up users and others who don't want to be force-fed large files, I have installed a photo gallery application on my Aeroinsanity webspace. It is at http://www.aeroinsanity.com/gallery2/main.php . It is free. It is offered as a gift to the online builder community. This app will let you create your own user accounts, and then create as many photo albums as you want. You can then simply include a link to the gallery in your emails. The site uses thumbnails, and is devoid of any pop-ups, advertising, or any other nonsense that would slow down picture loading. No user-entered information will ever be used for anything. I have about 3 gig of space so that should last a while. Please don't upload anything offensive. Feel free to log in and play around with the gallery features. It's pretty nice really. You don't have to register to view the uploaded files either. In case you don't know who or what I am, I lurk on several exp lists, mainly Zenith/Corvair/KR. I'm hosting John Kearney's Corvair instrumentation pages too, at http://www.aeroinsanity.com/corvair/datalogger/ . Feel free to email me any questions at george AT customcals.com. If you do, or don't like the gallery I'd appreciate some feedback. Oh, by the way, there's a classifieds application too, at http://aeroinsanity.com/classifieds/ - can't promise much traffic though, unless folks start using it. Thanks, George Harris Casa Grande, AZ EAA 0571660 EAA Chapter 1217 ---------------------------------