---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/25/06: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: Spar question (R.P.) 2. 05:01 AM - Soild rivet gun question (summary) (Debo Cox) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: Skyshop Electric Flaps for CH 701 (Jeffrey A Beachy) 4. 06:08 AM - Re: Removing Rivets (Noel Loveys) 5. 08:34 AM - Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions (nick@aoaircrafters.com) 6. 09:42 AM - Re: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions (ALAN BEYER) 7. 10:02 AM - Re: Riveting oneself into a corner (dbortol) 8. 10:53 AM - Wings to Adventure and Zenith Music (2thesky) 9. 12:19 PM - Places hard to rivet (Robert L. Stone) 10. 01:30 PM - Fuselage support (Jaybannist@cs.com) 11. 01:47 PM - 701 header tank air vent (Geoff Heap) 12. 03:31 PM - Replacing rivets with bolts (George Swinford) 13. 03:32 PM - Re: Places hard to rivet (Bill Naumuk) 14. 03:42 PM - Re: Spar question (Bill Naumuk) 15. 04:08 PM - Re: Places hard to rivet (Paul Mulwitz) 16. 04:48 PM - Re: Replacing rivets with bolts (J2j3h4@aol.com) 17. 05:29 PM - Re: Replacing rivets with bolts (Bill Naumuk) 18. 05:32 PM - Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde) 19. 05:32 PM - Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde) 20. 06:01 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Bryan Martin) 21. 07:31 PM - 601xl wing kit for sale (Hudsonmusic1@aol.com) 22. 07:45 PM - Re: Spar question (Dave Ruddiman) 23. 07:49 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:43 AM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Naumuk" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > Just to make sure- the HDS plans call for standard ADs, right? Or did I > miss something? > Bill Naumuk No Bill, you didn't miss anything. Those are AN470-AD Rivets. Keep on building :) Rick Pitcher 601HD, w/HDS outer wing panel project sitting on the shelf waiting... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:38 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Zenith-List: Soild rivet gun question (summary) Thanks for all of the knowledgeable and insightful answers to my questions about a rivet gun vs. an air chisel. Just to wrap this up and enter it into the archives for the next builder, here's what appears to be the consensus. An air chisel is a perfectly acceptable alternative to a traditional rivet gun, but with you lose a little in the deal. A traditional rivet gun has a more controllable trigger which allows you better control over the process. It also works better if you're trying to start a rivet in a difficult spot. More control equals less potential damage to other parts or mis-driven rivets. On the other hand, if you're using a c-frame riveter or some other method of holding your rivet sets firmly in place and you're just looking for the hammering action itself, an air chisel (or air hammer as some guys called it) will do the job just fine. The drawback of the air chisel is that it's an "on" or "off" trigger - no variable rate, so the potential to over-drive your rivets might be slightly magnified. I wanted to thank Dave Ruddiman too for his generous offer to let me try out his 3X rivet gun. These things ain't cheap, and I appreciate the offer. He's going to ship it to me and I'm going to give it a try. I've said it before - nobody builds an airplane alone. Debo Cox XL/Corvair Working on wing spars --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Skyshop Electric Flaps for CH 701 From: Jeffrey A Beachy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy Jim, I ended up mounting my actuator on top of the channel similarly to how you describe your setup. I have the position sensor on top of the actuator, but may move it higher to match the exact distance of the sensor. Good luck on your first flight! Jeff ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:55 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets I use a pin punch of the correct size to remove mandrels. the steel in the punch is harder than the shank of a rivet and there is less chance of slipping and damaging a hole. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets My method for pulled rivets is about the same. Use the next size bigger drill to pop off the head. Don't push too hard and you won't do any damage, but the larger diameter bit gives you more torque. Drive the mandrel out using the stem of a similar size rivet. If you have a really stubborn one that can't be pulled out by hand at this point (Like a rivet going through an extrusion), drill through the middle using a bit suitable for silver clecos to weaken the walls. Without the mandrel, you get a straight hole and most of the time, the remaining rivet will come out while you're drilling. A tap with a center punch or gentle tug with regular pliers will free the rest. For solid rivets and spar work, I used my drill press and a roller stand. Incidentally, when I said in an earlier post that I thought all spar rivets were ADs, I meant that all rivets used in spars were ADs, not that all rivets were ADs. Anyway, if you don't have the dimple in your rivet and want to find center, use a lathe center drill. These are bits with a huge shank that tapers down to the final diameter with an extremely short final diameter bit length. They DON'T creep on you. Attached is a link to a reputable supplier. http://www.jlindustrial.com/endeca/searchResults.jsp;jsessionid=DOEGPRY ARBV5 PLAUBIWCFEVMCQFC0IV0?_dyncharset=ASCII &ns=1&Ntt=center+drills&Ntk=Keyword+Search Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: LRM Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets Since Jon Croke and I are rivet removing experts here is how we do it. Use an old rivet stem or better yet get the right size drift. It should be the same as the A5 stem or a little smaller. First punch you stem down a little with the drift, them drill the head. That's it, nothing to it. The head will pop off and the base will fall out. Jon has a lot more experience than me, he probably has removed thousands of rivets. I've only removed hundreds. Larry N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dino Bortolin Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing Rivets While we're talking about removing rivets, I was struggling with removing some A5's from my stabilizer spar; it seems you always need three hands. I spotted my automatic center punch on the table and found what I think is an easier method. I've only used it (so far) on pulled rivets on the stab spar, which is fairly rigid - it may not work well on solid rivets or thinner material. The steps are: 1. Leave the mandrel in place. Drill the rivet head slowly with the same size drill as the rivet hole just until the head falls off. 2. Use the automatic center punch to pop the rest of the rivet out. It will be ejected cleanly and easily. Stubborn ones may take a few hits. I put a little piece of rubber around the tip of the punch to cushion any contact between the body of the punch and the aluminum. Dino Bortolin La Salle, Ontario XL/Corvair On 9/24/06, leinad wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" ... After removing the head you need to drive the rivet out. I made a punch with a nail ground flat on the end. The nail should be small enough to fit loosely in a hole the size of the rivet hole. ... _____ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:48 AM PST US From: nick@aoaircrafters.com Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com I have a Zodiac 601 HD with a Continental 0-200 A engine. The engine installation is about 25% complete. Two questions: --Do you have problems with oil cooling? If so, what provisions are made for oil cooling? --Do you have problems with aircraft weight and balance (i.e. the Continental 0-200 engine's weight as opposed to other possible models). If so what is generally done to correct the wieght and balance problem? Thanks guys, ~Nick ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:18 AM PST US From: ALAN BEYER Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions Nick, A friend of mine just finished an HD with a Corvair engine. He has a light battery (about 15 Lbs.) located behind the seats. With it in that location the forward CG limit was too far forward. We moved it as far back in the fuselage as we could. A small hinged door in the bottom of the fuselage was installed. With the extra length of battery cables and mounting Brk's. for the battery we gained 5 Lbs. The CG limits now come out perfect. This lowered the weight on the nose wheel by 40 #s. Al nick@aoaircrafters.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com I have a Zodiac 601 HD with a Continental 0-200 A engine. The engine installation is about 25% complete. Two questions: --Do you have problems with oil cooling? If so, what provisions are made for oil cooling? --Do you have problems with aircraft weight and balance (i.e. the Continental 0-200 engine's weight as opposed to other possible models). If so what is generally done to correct the wieght and balance problem? Thanks guys, ~Nick ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Riveting oneself into a corner From: "dbortol" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" I just felt like drawing something. See the attached photo (30KB). Dino Bortolin La Salle, Ontario XL/Corvair dpfisher(at)scottsbluff.n wrote: > Hi Tommy, > > Try grinding the dimpled face of your nose piece at a 15 degree angle and > then redimple it, or you can accomplish the same thing by making a > separate angled and dimpled attachment to slip over the rivet stem before > you pull it. You can then angle the riveter into the corner while the > crooked nose piece gives you a flush set on the rivet. The rivet stem will > be pulled at an angle but you'll get a straight set on the rivet. > > Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental > > At 12:58 AM 5/27/2006, you wrote: > > > * > > > > If you look at the attached picture, you can see where my problem is. I can't > > get the two holes in the 7F12-4 Gusset riveted. The problem is caused by the > > 15 degree angle in the 7F5-2SP Side Channel. > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63757#63757 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/angle_riveting_assembly_860.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Wings to Adventure and Zenith Music From: "2thesky" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" Earlier, I watched "Wings to Adventure" on the OUtdoor channel, just like I do every Monday. I noticed that some of the music is the same music that is on the Zenith DVD. My wife instantly commented that I had watched the Zenith DVD too much. Anyway, pretty trivial. I just thought it was interesting. do not archive -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63761#63761 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:54 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Places hard to rivet Members, Has anyone ever thought of just using a small (Same shaft diameter as the rivet) bolt, two washers and a lock nut in place of the rivet. I don't think there are very many places where this problem will crop up therefore not much extra weight will be added and the nut and bolt will be just as strong if not stronger than the rivet. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:35 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Zenith-List: Fuselage support I sent you all and ZAC a request for help on changing the support of my fuselage to allow better access from below. I thought my question was pretty clear. The response from ZAC: "Can you send photos?" I clearly said that it was supported the way the photo guide said to support it. Any way, I did send photos, so the jury is out on ZAC help. I'll keep you informed. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:51 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 header tank air vent From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Hi Guys. How do I terminate the vent line that comes up from the header tank. Does it get tied off at a high point inside the wing? Plug it into a high point in the wing tank wall? Exit the front of the wing to get "ram air???? I'm going to call ZAC later but I want to check what the guys on the list did. I know that Johann and Jari at least have this configuration. On another note. My Dual sticks are coming along nicely and I am past the prototype stage. Finished parts are in place and full movement of the sticks transfers through the proper linkages. I've still got some adjustments to make but the configuration seems to be fine. It's the same as the old 601 config that I've seen. Everything is mounted on the seat front and all movements transfer through the seat front. Nothing protrudes above the top of the seat. There are no changes to the original center stick setup parts. I use them as supplied. That means that it can be converted back easily. I'm happily married and want to keep it that way so I only work on the weekends, so it's going kinda slow. I'll post pics when I'm done.......Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63791#63791 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:49 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Replacing rivets with bolts Bob: This question came up a few months ago, and I posted some comments at that time. You are right, the bolt is substantially stronger than the AD rivet of the same diameter. Your wing won't be any stronger though, since most of the fasteners will still be rivets which will fail before the bolt can really do its share. The issue to consider is the fatigue resistance of the spar. A driven or squeezed rivet expands to fill its hole and puts the material surrounding the hole in compression, which tends to keep fatigue cracks from starting. An AN bolt in a drilled hole doesn't have the same effect. Under normal operating stresses the material surrounding the bolt feels as though there is nothing in the hole, and it experiences fluctuating tensile stress. Fluctuating tensile stress tends to start fatigue cracks. To keep the fatigue quality equivalent to a rivet, drill the hole slightly undersize and ream it to the actual (measured) diameter of the bolt. Bolts in the standard AN bolt series (AN3, AN4 etc) have a fairly wide tolerance on diameter, so the nominal diameter is misleading. What you want is a fit which is close (or tight) enough that the bolt has to be tapped into place, not just pushed in with the fingers. Reaming also makes sure that the hole is really round, so the bolt is in contact with all the material around the hole. For the few bolts involved it might be a good move to invest in close tolerance bolts in the AN173 series. They have the same strength as AN3 etc, but the diameter is closely controlled. I have taken my own advice on this issue, using close tolerance bolts in reamed holes on my CH601 HD spars, where the factory-built spars needed additional fasteners. George zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Places hard to rivet Members, Has anyone ever thought of just using a small (Same shaft diameter as the rivet) bolt, two washers and a lock nut in place of the rivet. I don't think there are very many places where this problem will crop up therefore not much extra weight will be added and the nut and bolt will be just as strong if not stronger than the rivet. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL DO NOT ARCHIVE ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/22/2006 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:49 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Places hard to rivet This approach is in the archives. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Places hard to rivet Members, Has anyone ever thought of just using a small (Same shaft diameter as the rivet) bolt, two washers and a lock nut in place of the rivet. I don't think there are very many places where this problem will crop up therefore not much extra weight will be added and the nut and bolt will be just as strong if not stronger than the rivet. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:43 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" R.P- Good. I just received a product from ACS with their bar code stock label calling out a different grade than that of the manufacturer's. It's getting scary. Like going in for a colonoscopy and coming out with a colonectomy! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.P." Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Naumuk" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:01 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >> >> Just to make sure- the HDS plans call for standard ADs, right? Or did I >> miss something? >> Bill Naumuk > > No Bill, you didn't miss anything. Those are AN470-AD Rivets. > Keep on building :) > > Rick Pitcher > 601HD, w/HDS outer wing panel project sitting on the shelf waiting... > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:28 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Places hard to rivet Bob, I prefer to use a modified riveter to squeeze into tight spaces. This is not too hard to produce. I just ground an angle of perhaps 30 degrees in the front of a riveter nose piece and then ground a hollow in the hole to make the rounded rivet head. I only used this in a few places, so the cosmetic finish in the hole to form rivet heads didn't seem important. The tools I used for this were a belt grinder to make the bevel on the riveter nose piece and a Dremel tool with a round cutter and/or stone for the concave feature. It seems crazy to pull a rivet stem into a place where the stem must bend some 30 degrees to set the rivet. Indeed it works just fine. One issue to consider when putting bolts in places hard to reach for riveting. How hard will it be to inspect the bolts in the future to see they are properly torqued? Paul XL fuselage At 12:17 PM 9/25/2006, you wrote: >Members, > Has anyone ever thought of just using a small (Same shaft > diameter as the rivet) bolt, two washers and a lock nut in place of > the rivet. I don't think there are very many places where this > problem will crop up therefore not much extra weight will be added > and the nut and bolt will be just as strong if not stronger than the rivet. > >Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx >ZodiacXL DO NOT ARCHIVE - ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:24 PM PST US From: J2j3h4@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Replacing rivets with bolts How about drilling and tapping the hole using the recommended tap drill size? When you tighten up the nut on the steel bolt it will deform the threads in the aluminum to give you a very tight fit. Radical, I know, so feel free to disagree. Also, don't call me if your wings fall off. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 5:33:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, grs-pms@comcast.net writes: Bob: This question came up a few months ago, and I posted some comments at that time. You are right, the bolt is substantially stronger than the AD rivet of the same diameter. Your wing won't be any stronger though, since most of the fasteners will still be rivets which will fail before the bolt can really do its share. The issue to consider is the fatigue resistance of the spar. A driven or squeezed rivet expands to fill its hole and puts the material surrounding the hole in compression, which tends to keep fatigue cracks from starting. An AN bolt in a drilled hole doesn't have the same effect. Under normal operating stresses the material surrounding the bolt feels as though there is nothing in the hole, and it experiences fluctuating tensile stress. Fluctuating tensile stress tends to start fatigue cracks. To keep the fatigue quality equivalent to a rivet, drill the hole slightly undersize and ream it to the actual (measured) diameter of the bolt. Bolts in the standard AN bolt series (AN3, AN4 etc) have a fairly wide tolerance on diameter, so the nominal diameter is misleading. What you want is a fit which is close (or tight) enough that the bolt has to be tapped into place, not just pushed in with the fingers. Reaming also makes sure that the hole is really round, so the bolt is in contact with all the material around the hole. For the few bolts involved it might be a good move to invest in close tolerance bolts in the AN173 series. They have the same strength as AN3 etc, but the diameter is closely controlled. I have taken my own advice on this issue, using close tolerance bolts in reamed holes on my CH601 HD spars, where the factory-built spars needed additional fasteners. George ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:01 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Replacing rivets with bolts Jim- If you don't have the clearance room to rivet, how in the heck are you going to tap a straight hole? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: J2j3h4@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Replacing rivets with bolts How about drilling and tapping the hole using the recommended tap drill size? When you tighten up the nut on the steel bolt it will deform the threads in the aluminum to give you a very tight fit. Radical, I know, so feel free to disagree. Also, don't call me if your wings fall off. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 5:33:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, grs-pms@comcast.net writes: Bob: This question came up a few months ago, and I posted some comments at that time. You are right, the bolt is substantially stronger than the AD rivet of the same diameter. Your wing won't be any stronger though, since most of the fasteners will still be rivets which will fail before the bolt can really do its share. The issue to consider is the fatigue resistance of the spar. A driven or squeezed rivet expands to fill its hole and puts the material surrounding the hole in compression, which tends to keep fatigue cracks from starting. An AN bolt in a drilled hole doesn't have the same effect. Under normal operating stresses the material surrounding the bolt feels as though there is nothing in the hole, and it experiences fluctuating tensile stress. Fluctuating tensile stress tends to start fatigue cracks. To keep the fatigue quality equivalent to a rivet, drill the hole slightly undersize and ream it to the actual (measured) diameter of the bolt. Bolts in the standard AN bolt series (AN3, AN4 etc) have a fairly wide tolerance on diameter, so the nominal diameter is misleading. What you want is a fit which is close (or tight) enough that the bolt has to be tapped into place, not just pushed in with the fingers. Reaming also makes sure that the hole is really round, so the bolt is in contact with all the material around the hole. For the few bolts involved it might be a good move to invest in close tolerance bolts in the AN173 series. They have the same strength as AN3 etc, but the diameter is closely controlled. I have taken my own advice on this issue, using close tolerance bolts in reamed holes on my CH601 HD spars, where the factory-built spars needed additional fasteners. George ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:16 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already fabricated 601HDS stabilator to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach fittings would have to be wider. Is this possible? RON ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:33 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already fabricated 601HDS stabilIizer to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach fittings would have to be wider. Is this possible? RON ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:16 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin Both models use the same stabilizer and rudder so it should fit. On Sep 25, 2006, at 8:30 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" > > > Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an > already fabricated 601HDS stabilator to a 601XL fuselage. > Apparently the attach fittings would have to be wider. > > Is this possible? > RON -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:48 PM PST US From: Hudsonmusic1@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl wing kit for sale I am selling my 601xl factory wing kit and empanage kit. The empanage is finished. The flaps are done and the right aileron is done and I am working on the left aileron. The rest of the wing kit is untouched. Options include; landing light, strobe kit, wing baggage locker and aileron trim. All recommended tools included from Zenith also. I have the pneumatic and hand riveter. I have about 10k invested in this. Asking $5500.00 and you pick it up. I live in central Ky. Phone # home- 502-857-2218 Cell # 502-316-3372. Thanks, Jeff ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:50 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" As long as 2 cute nurses put you to sleep, who cares what they do. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Naumuk" Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > R.P- > Good. I just received a product from ACS with their bar code stock > label calling out a different grade than that of the manufacturer's. It's > getting scary. Like going in for a colonoscopy and coming out with a > colonectomy! > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R.P." > To: > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:46 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill Naumuk" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:01 AM >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >>> >>> Just to make sure- the HDS plans call for standard ADs, right? Or did I >>> miss something? >>> Bill Naumuk >> >> No Bill, you didn't miss anything. Those are AN470-AD Rivets. >> Keep on building :) >> >> Rick Pitcher >> 601HD, w/HDS outer wing panel project sitting on the shelf waiting... >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:30 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" Hi Bryan That is what I had read in the literature and on the website. Apparently there has to be some modifications made since the 601XL fuselage is a bit wider. I was told this by a fella at the factory. . Ron > >Both models use the same stabilizer and rudder so it should fit. > >On Sep 25, 2006, at 8:30 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >> >>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already >>fabricated 601HDS stabilator to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach >>fittings would have to be wider. >> >>Is this possible? >>RON > > >-- >Bryan Martin >N61BM, CH 601 XL, >RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. >do not archive. > >