---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/26/06: 47 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:05 AM - Re: Wings to Adventure and Zenith Music (TxDave) 2. 02:47 AM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Bryan Martin) 3. 03:31 AM - Re: 601xl wing kit for sale (ernie) 4. 04:08 AM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Paul Mulwitz) 5. 04:38 AM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Zodie Rocket) 6. 05:01 AM - Re: Riveting oneself into a corner (Tommy Walker) 7. 05:38 AM - Back on list after summer (Aaron Gustafson) 8. 05:38 AM - Fw: Rivet gun type, trusting seat belts (John Bolding) 9. 05:58 AM - Re: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions (Schemmel, Grant) 10. 06:42 AM - right angle drill? (Stephen R. Look) 11. 07:10 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Chris Lewis) 12. 07:23 AM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde) 13. 07:50 AM - Re: Riveting oneself into a corner (Dino Bortolin) 14. 07:58 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: right angle drill? (Randy Bryant) 16. 08:04 AM - Re: right angle drill? () 17. 08:21 AM - Corrosion Protection Answers (lwinger) 18. 08:28 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Jaybannist@cs.com) 19. 09:07 AM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Todd Osborne) 20. 09:28 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection Answers (Paul Mulwitz) 21. 10:07 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection Answers (Larry Winger) 22. 10:07 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection Answers (Larry Winger) 23. 10:11 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Robert L. Stone) 24. 10:16 AM - Zenith FWF Installation Seminar (Pete Krotje) 25. 10:20 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Craig Payne) 26. 10:34 AM - Another Flyin in Mexico. (Gary Gower) 27. 10:42 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Randy Bryant) 28. 12:18 PM - Fw: Progress Report (Wade Jones) 29. 12:28 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (mcr01steiner@mac.com) 30. 01:32 PM - Re: right angle drill? (Robert Schoenberger) 31. 02:17 PM - Re: Fw: Progress Report (Debo Cox) 32. 02:22 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Bryan Martin) 33. 02:33 PM - nose gear (john butterfield) 34. 03:02 PM - Re: nose gear (Jack Russell) 35. 03:19 PM - Re: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try (Jeffrey J Paris) 36. 03:29 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Bill Naumuk) 37. 03:31 PM - Re: nose gear (Tom) 38. 03:36 PM - Re: Spar question (Bill Naumuk) 39. 04:11 PM - Odd materials sources (leinad) 40. 04:31 PM - Re: right angle drill? (George Swinford) 41. 04:56 PM - Re: Odd materials sources (George Swinford) 42. 04:58 PM - Re: Odd materials sources (Bryan Martin) 43. 05:46 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde) 44. 06:05 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Bill Naumuk) 45. 07:09 PM - Re: Odd materials sources (leinad) 46. 09:14 PM - Re: Spar question (Dave Ruddiman) 47. 09:48 PM - Re: Re: Odd materials sources (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings to Adventure and Zenith Music From: "TxDave" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" A few weeks ago,a Wings to Adventure episode featured a 601XL. I have it saved on my DVR. My wife has patiently watched the Zenith DVD with me about 20 times. Lucky for me she's just as excited as I am about having our own airplane. Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL Scratch Builder http://www.daves601xl.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63903#63903 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:34 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin Must be a recent change then because I built my stabilizer in '98 right after the first prototype of the XL with the bungee main gear came out before the design was changed to the current spring gear mains. My stabilizer fit right on the new rear fuselage kit they sent me in 2000. The tail kit I received was the same kit they were selling for the HD/HDS at the time. I don't have my plans with me right now or any measurements. I don't think the tail of the fuselage has changed between the HD and XL. If I get out to the hangar soon, I'll take some measurements. On Sep 25, 2006, at 10:47 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" > > > Hi Bryan > That is what I had read in the literature and on the website. > Apparently there has to be some modifications made since the 601XL > fuselage is a bit wider. I was told this by a fella at the factory. . > Ron > > >> >> Both models use the same stabilizer and rudder so it should fit. >> >> On Sep 25, 2006, at 8:30 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >>> >>> >>> Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an >>> already fabricated 601HDS stabilator to a 601XL fuselage. >>> Apparently the attach fittings would have to be wider. >>> >>> Is this possible? >>> RON >> >> >> >> -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:34 AM PST US From: ernie Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601xl wing kit for sale Jeff, Did you sell the rest of your kit? Ernie On 9/25/06, Hudsonmusic1@aol.com wrote: > > I am selling my 601xl factory wing kit and empanage kit. The empanage is > finished. The flaps are done and the right aileron is done and I am working > on the left aileron. The rest of the wing kit is untouched. Options include; > landing light, strobe kit, wing baggage locker and aileron trim. All > recommended tools included from Zenith also. I have the pneumatic and hand > riveter. I have about 10k invested in this. Asking $5500.00 and you pick it > up. I live in central Ky. Phone # home- 502-857-2218 Cell # 502-316-3372. > Thanks, Jeff > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:44 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I don't know if there has been a change to the mounting of the stabilizer. However, I do know there have been numerous changes to the XL design to make it conform with the consensus LSA standard. Unfortunately, the information on design changes on the drawings is not very good. It is also impossible to figure out who to discuss the changes with since they don't put the designer's name on the drawings when they make a change. All my drawings still have only C. Heintz name on them even though he retired several years ago. Maybe some day the designers at ZAC will start using industry standards for documentation of designs. Paul XL fuselage At 02:45 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >Must be a recent change then because I built my stabilizer in '98 >right after the first prototype of the XL with the bungee main gear >came out before the design was changed to the current spring gear >mains. My stabilizer fit right on the new rear fuselage kit they sent >me in 2000. The tail kit I received was the same kit they were >selling for the HD/HDS at the time. I don't have my plans with me >right now or any measurements. I don't think the tail of the fuselage >has changed between the HD and XL. If I get out to the hangar soon, >I'll take some measurements. --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:30 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Whoa, lets back up the train on this one a bit. Yes, Chris Heintz is Retired form the everyday rush of running a business, which means he may or may not be found in his office, also he may or may not be at an airshow. However, he is NOT retired from designing new planes, he is still involved in the evolution of his designs and he is available for consultation on structural changes to his aircraft. SO the reason why you only see C.Heintz name on the plans Is due to the fact that Chris is still approving changes. Now the difference in style on the plans is due to the fact that Chris is a hands on master and uses a computer for a hat stand. SO all inputs come from hand drawings and need to be imputed by another hand into CAD. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I don't know if there has been a change to the mounting of the stabilizer. However, I do know there have been numerous changes to the XL design to make it conform with the consensus LSA standard. Unfortunately, the information on design changes on the drawings is not very good. It is also impossible to figure out who to discuss the changes with since they don't put the designer's name on the drawings when they make a change. All my drawings still have only C. Heintz name on them even though he retired several years ago. Maybe some day the designers at ZAC will start using industry standards for documentation of designs. Paul XL fuselage At 02:45 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >Must be a recent change then because I built my stabilizer in '98 >right after the first prototype of the XL with the bungee main gear >came out before the design was changed to the current spring gear >mains. My stabilizer fit right on the new rear fuselage kit they sent >me in 2000. The tail kit I received was the same kit they were >selling for the HD/HDS at the time. I don't have my plans with me >right now or any measurements. I don't think the tail of the fuselage >has changed between the HD and XL. If I get out to the hangar soon, >I'll take some measurements. --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- -- 9/25/2006 -- 9/25/2006 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:30 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" I just felt like drawing something. See the attached photo (30KB). Dino Bortolin La Salle, Ontario XL/Corvair Very neat Dino. I wish I had the equipment to turn that drawing into a steel nose piece. My file and hand drill made one, but not anything that looked as good as your drawing. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:05 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Zenith-List: Back on list after summer I'm back on the list and checking out the new names . I have progressed on my 601 HDTD , having made the wing tanks and a new engine mount for the Continental 0-200 that will replace the Sub that I was going to use. I would like to know how many others are using an aircraft engine in their project. Please email me directly w/ your info. I.E. prop choice, pitch, length, and other details of the engine. Aaron Gustafson Upper Michigan do not archive thanks ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:05 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: Rivet gun type, trusting seat belts ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bolding Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Rivet gun type, trusting seat belts I HEARD a long time ago that the slower hitting rivet gun does not work harden the rivet as much as the zip guns. Nothing to back this up however, just asked my neighbor (A&P/IA) and he remembers the same but can't remember the source either (he's older than I am). For the small rivets we use I have found the 2x to be the easiest to handle and a 3x for longer/larger rivets. It could be argued that if a zip gun was as good as a true rivet gun Boeing, Cessna, Piper,Mooney and Beech would use them but they don't. They (zip guns) are sure a lot cheaper to buy however. I CAN tell you with assurance that the longer the rivet is, the more chance you will have of improperly setting the rivet with the Zip gun. Same thing happens when using a 2x and you should be using a larger gun, the shop head expands nice and pretty but the shank of the rivet does not fully expand to fill the hole. The slower ,harder hitting gun expands the entire shank better than many lighter strokes. Van showed the unwashed among us (me especially,I didn't buy into it at first) some cutaway samples of spar sections showing this event at a forum about 35 yrs ago at Osh. He also used to answer the phone when you called "Van's Aircraft" too but I doubt he does that anymore either. Who knows, you might like driving rivets so much that you do the whole airplane with them (or wherever you can anyway), I am. Lots cheaper,lighter,stronger and when you finish your Zenith and decide your next project is something with driven rivets you can skip the chapter in the manual labeled "How to Rivet". Above paragraph is GUARANTEED to bring the pot to a fast boil. Someone mentioned a few days ago that he didn't trust his .040 seat belt attach fittings that are held on with pop rivets to keep him secure when doing aerobatics. Doing positive g aero places very little /zero strain on the restraint system. If you don't trust it then, how can you live with it (pun intended) if you might put several hundred/ few thousand pounds of force on it in an accident??? I have NOT written Zenith as I promised concerning this , was told by a reliable source that they are seriously looking at this issue so will keep my abrasive mouth closed for a couple more weeks and see what shakes out. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:24 AM PST US From: "Schemmel, Grant" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" I have an HDS with an O-200 in it, and have maybe 150 hrs. on it now. To answer your questions,: 1) Yes, I had significant cooling problems initially. I solved mine by putting in an oil cooler with a sandwich plate adapter between the spin-on filter and it's mount (see archives). 2) I can't say that I had problems with w&b, as I compensated for the weight by putting both of my batteries (2 x 13Ahr) right at about the location of the wing steps. My w&b then came out perfect. I get at the batteries through an access hatch on the pilots side of the fuselage. Regards, Grant Schemmel Penrose, CO Time: 08:34:48 AM PST US From: nick@aoaircrafters.com Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com I have a Zodiac 601 HD with a Continental 0-200 A engine. The engine installation is about 25% complete. Two questions: --Do you have problems with oil cooling? If so, what provisions are made for oil cooling? --Do you have problems with aircraft weight and balance (i.e. the Continental 0-200 engine's weight as opposed to other possible models). If so what is generally done to correct the wieght and balance problem? Thanks guys, ~Nick ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:23 AM PST US From: "Stephen R. Look" Subject: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL 601XL "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: right angle drill? From: "Chris Lewis" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Lewis" Steve - I bought a cheapie right angle drill from Harbor Freight. Less than $30.00 Chris in Seattle -------- 701 Scratch Builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63946#63946 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/drill_384.gif ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:57 AM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" Hi Bryan Appreciate your efforts. The HDS tail was made from a tail kit produced in 2000-2001 (approx) and the XL fuselage will be the current one. Sure would like to use this completed tail kit on the XL. Until I talked to the guy I got on the phone at the Zenith factory in Missouri I was quite certain that all the 601 tail kits were the same. All their literature and their website states this. Thanks for checking for me. Ron >Must be a recent change then because I built my stabilizer in '98 right >after the first prototype of the XL with the bungee main gear came out >before the design was changed to the current spring gear mains. My >stabilizer fit right on the new rear fuselage kit they sent me in 2000. >The tail kit I received was the same kit they were selling for the HD/HDS >at the time. I don't have my plans with me right now or any measurements. >I don't think the tail of the fuselage has changed between the HD and XL. >If I get out to the hangar soon, I'll take some measurements. > > >On Sep 25, 2006, at 10:47 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >> >>Hi Bryan >>That is what I had read in the literature and on the website. >>Apparently there has to be some modifications made since the 601XL >>fuselage is a bit wider. I was told this by a fella at the factory. . >>Ron >> >> >>> >>>Both models use the same stabilizer and rudder so it should fit. >>> >>>On Sep 25, 2006, at 8:30 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: >>> >>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >>>> >>>> >>>>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already >>>>fabricated 601HDS stabilator to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the >>>>attach fittings would have to be wider. >>>> >>>>Is this possible? >>>>RON >>> >>> >>> >>> >-- >Bryan Martin >N61BM, CH 601 XL, >RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. >do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:42 AM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dino Bortolin" Me too. I'm lusting after a mill and a lathe, which I would convert myself to CNC. But I don't have the space in the garage, and I can't allow myself to pick up another hobby until after the plane is done. So I'll be making one with my drill press and disc grinder. do not archive On 9/26/06, Tommy Walker wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" > > I just felt like drawing something. See the attached photo (30KB). > > Dino Bortolin > La Salle, Ontario > XL/Corvair > > > Very neat Dino. I wish I had the equipment to turn that drawing into a > steel nose piece. My file and hand drill made one, but not anything that > looked as good as your drawing. > > Tommy Walker in Alabama > Do Not Archive > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:52 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Steve, I use a right angle drill attachment for my drill. It takes 1/4x28 threaded drill bits. I use the same short threaded drill bits for all my aluminum drilling. I made a threaded round bar for my drill to mount these bits, but there are many right angle kits that come with an adapter for your drill. I think I got my right angle drill from Aircraft Spruce, but I looked in the current online catalog and didn't find the same one. I paid around $50 for a reduced kit that didn't include the fancy plastic case. It just came with the right angle adapter, a couple of extensions and a small handful of drill bits. Paul XL fuselage At 06:41 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > >I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the >trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a >recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? > >Steve > >Steve Look >Monticello, IL >601XL >"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > >_- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:38 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" A flex shaft used in a Dremel tool works good too.. This is how I drilled mine... Randy XL Wings - Plans Only ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lewis" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: right angle drill? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Lewis" > > > Steve - I bought a cheapie right angle drill from Harbor Freight. Less > than $30.00 > > Chris in Seattle > > -------- > 701 Scratch Builder > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63946#63946 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/drill_384.gif > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:26 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: I bought the "Deluxe Tight Fit Tool Kit" from Aircraft Spruce. Part number 11215. It comes with a right angle attachment that you drive with the drill of your choice. The kit includes a case with all the drill sizes and lengths taht you are likely to need. Sells for around $60 and will prove very helpful throughout the construction of your plane. I'm sure there are cheaper ones but this is a one time purchase that will last long enough to finish the plane without hunting up the individual components and keeps the stuff organized in a plastic case where you can find what you need when you need it. Comes in very handy when you would otherwise traumatize the adjacent aluminum with the chuck of a regular drill. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / cabin Jabiru 3300 ---- "Stephen R. Look" wrote: > > I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the > trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a > recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? > > Steve ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Corrosion Protection Answers From: "lwinger" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" In my quest for answers to the age-old question about internal corrosion protection, I contacted the folks at PTI (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/pti.html) for answers. As it turns out, my conversations ended with the President, Steven Andrews, actually coming by my office to pick up some scrap 6061-T6, a few actual rudder parts, and a Scotch-Brite pad (7447). After decades of serving the defense and commercial markets, PTI is waking up to the general aviation and homebuilt market. When I mentioned some of my questions (which some on this list seem to share), he was anxious to provide answers. He took the parts and they applied their zinc chromate and non-zinc chromate primers to perform adhesion tests. These were parts which had normal marks that you get from working aluminum into compound shapes. Half of the parts were scuffed with Scotch-Brite and the rest were not. All parts were solvent cleaned with isopropyl alcohol (talk about inexpensive and easy). The bottom line is that the tests showed high levels of adhesion, regardless of whether scuffing was done or not. I have pictures available on request. The use of a single, inexpensive solvent was partly in my response to questions about using Alumiprep 33 and Alodine. Their contention is that such time-intensive preparation is not required. My final question to him was this: Is adhesion all that matters? I asked because I know many builders are using the NAPA Self-Etching Primer or similar products and claim that is adheres very well. Here is his response. Well, adhesion is not the only issue. Obviously though, the primer has to adhere to protect. I do not know who manufactures the product that NAPA sells so I do not know how it is formulated. If it is a generic zinc chromate primer (which I suspect it is) then there is no telling what the quality of the resin system is, how it will hold up to chemical exposure, changes in climate, exposure to humidity, high heat or extreme cold. Whether it has the flexibility to expand and contract with the metal given altitude changes and the other unique environmental challenges unique to aviation as compared to the automotive environment I cannot say. But I can say that our product is specifically formulated for aircraft -- actually military aircraft. It is made with the highest quality resins available and conforms to the strictest standards as set out in the Military Specification to which it is formulated. So once it adheres -- it will perform. My reason for contacting PTI was that I liked what I read on the Aircraft Spruce website about their products and client list. They make the landing gear coatings for all major airlines, and their products are used in the interior and cargo holds of the Space Shuttle Challenger. Their customers since 1947 have a lot higher standards to meet than the project Im buiding in my garage. If nothing else, they have saved me lots of time and money in what appears to be unnecessary prep for priming. From now on, Im using isopropyl alcohol until the rag comes off clean, then Im priming with an aviation-specific product. My purpose in sending this message is to pass along information in case anyone on the list has been wrestling with similar issues. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Stabilizer skeleton ready to rivet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63983#63983 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:44 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? Steve, I got a right angle drill attachment directly from Tight Fit Tools. I don't remember what I paid for it, but whatever it was, it was worth it. I can't count the times and places that I've used it. In fact, I have been using it this morning. I got extra bits in sizes 40, 30, 20 & 3/16". I can recommend it with one caveat: It is a two-handed opration, so if you need to press a wood block behind whatever you are drilling, you'll need another hand. They have a good web site. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:50 AM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne I just finished the elevator I received 2 weeks ago. I can say it is quite a bit different than that XL elevator I made a few years ago, which means it is different from the HDS. Seems you could upgrade the older style elevator to the new style. This does not address the stabilizer of course. The elevator differences I noted were: 1) Use of A5 rivets around cutout. 2) A strap that connects the back of the upper and lower horns. This also uses 2 AS5 (steel) rivets. 3) Trim tab is completely different, nearly full span on left side. Todd Osborne EMail: todd@toddtown.com Web: www.toddtown.com Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com Skype: toddmosborne On Sep 26, 2006, at 9:23 AM, Ron Lalonde wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" > > > > Hi Bryan > Appreciate your efforts. The HDS tail was made from a tail kit > produced in 2000-2001 (approx) and the XL fuselage will be the > current one. > Sure would like to use this completed tail kit on the XL. > Until I talked to the guy I got on the phone at the Zenith factory > in Missouri I was quite certain that all the 601 tail kits were the > same. All their literature and their website states this. > Thanks for checking for me. > > Ron > >> Must be a recent change then because I built my stabilizer in '98 >> right after the first prototype of the XL with the bungee main >> gear came out before the design was changed to the current spring >> gear mains. My stabilizer fit right on the new rear fuselage kit >> they sent me in 2000. The tail kit I received was the same kit >> they were selling for the HD/HDS at the time. I don't have my >> plans with me right now or any measurements. I don't think the >> tail of the fuselage has changed between the HD and XL. If I get >> out to the hangar soon, I'll take some measurements. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2006, at 10:47 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >>> >>> >>> Hi Bryan >>> That is what I had read in the literature and on the website. >>> Apparently there has to be some modifications made since the >>> 601XL fuselage is a bit wider. I was told this by a fella at the >>> factory. . >>> Ron >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Both models use the same stabilizer and rudder so it should fit. >>>> >>>> On Sep 25, 2006, at 8:30 PM, Ron Lalonde wrote: >>>> >>>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an >>>>> already fabricated 601HDS stabilator to a 601XL fuselage. >>>>> Apparently the attach fittings would have to be wider. >>>>> >>>>> Is this possible? >>>>> RON >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -- >> Bryan Martin >> N61BM, CH 601 XL, >> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. >> do not archive. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:46 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corrosion Protection Answers --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Larry, Thanks for the great information. I wish to add one thought on the fancy priming issue. You might want to use different techniques for internal paint vs. external finish paint. The simple approach is probably overkill for internal use, but certainly good enough. For the external finish, I would go the complete route of alumiprep, alodine, primer, and top coat. The difference is that the external finish is subject to heavy sunlight exposure along with nasty weather and related stuff. Paul XL fuselage At 08:20 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwinger" > >In my quest for answers to the age-old question >about internal corrosion protection, I contacted >the folks at PTI >(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/pti.html) > for answers. As it turns out, my >conversations ended with the President, Steven >Andrews, actually coming by my office to pick up >some scrap 6061-T6, a few actual rudder parts, >and a Scotch-Brite pad (7447). After decades of >serving the defense and commercial markets, PTI >is waking up to the general aviation and >homebuilt market. When I mentioned some of my >questions (which some on this list seem to >share), he was anxious to provide answers. > >He took the parts and they applied their zinc >chromate and non-zinc chromate primers to >perform adhesion tests. These were parts which >had normal marks that you get from working >aluminum into compound shapes. Half of the >parts were scuffed with Scotch-Brite and the >rest were not. All parts were solvent cleaned >with isopropyl alcohol (talk about inexpensive and easy). > >The bottom line is that the tests showed high >levels of adhesion, regardless of whether >scuffing was done or not. I have pictures >available on request. The use of a single, >inexpensive solvent was partly in my response to >questions about using Alumiprep 33 and >Alodine. Their contention is that such >time-intensive preparation is not required. > >My final question to him was this: Is >adhesion all that matters? I asked because I >know many builders are using the NAPA >Self-Etching Primer or similar products and >claim that is adheres very well. Here is his response. > >Well, adhesion is not the only >issue. Obviously though, the primer has to >adhere to protect. I do not know who >manufactures the product that NAPA sells so I do >not know how it is formulated. If it is a >generic zinc chromate primer (which I suspect it >is) then there is no telling what the quality of >the resin system is, how it will hold up to >chemical exposure, changes in climate, exposure >to humidity, high heat or extreme cold. Whether >it has the flexibility to expand and contract >with the metal given altitude changes and the >other unique environmental challenges unique to >aviation as compared to the automotive >environment I cannot say. But I can say that >our product is specifically formulated for >aircraft -- actually military aircraft. It is >made with the highest quality resins available >and conforms to the strictest standards as set >out in the Military Specification to which it is >formulated. So once it adheres -- it will perform. > >My reason for contacting PTI was that I liked >what I read on the Aircraft Spruce website about >their products and client list. They make the >landing gear coatings for all major airlines, >and their products are used in the interior and >cargo holds of the Space Shuttle >Challenger. Their customers since 1947 have a >lot higher standards to meet than the project Im buiding in my garage. > >If nothing else, they have saved me lots of time >and money in what appears to be unnecessary prep >for priming. From now on, Im using isopropyl >alcohol until the rag comes off clean, then >Im priming with an aviation-specific >product. My purpose in sending this message is >to pass along information in case anyone on the >list has been wrestling with similar issues. > >-------- >Larry Winger >Tustin, CA >601XL #6493 from scratch >Stabilizer skeleton ready to rivet > > -- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:41 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corrosion Protection Answers My questions of PTI were about internal corrosion protection only. I know they have completely different answer when priming for external painting. Thanks for highlighting that difference. On 9/26/06, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net > > You might want to use different > techniques for internal paint vs. external finish > paint. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:43 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corrosion Protection Answers My questions of PTI were about internal corrosion protection only. I know they have completely different answer when priming for external painting. Thanks for highlighting that difference. On 9/26/06, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net > > You might want to use different > techniques for internal paint vs. external finish > paint. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Stephen, The one and only quality miniature tool I can think of is the DREMEL. The basic tool comes with 5 accessories for $59.95. There is an accessory available for this tool called the FLEX-SHAFT for getting into real small places and this attachment sells for $32.60. If you are interested I got this information from the catalog. Wholesale tool Company. http://www.wttool.com If you ask for a catalog they will send you one and it's the cheapest outfit I ever heard of that quality US made tools. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen R. Look" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: Zenith-List: right angle drill? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the > trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a > recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? > > Steve > > Steve Look > Monticello, IL > 601XL > "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:08 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith FWF Installation Seminar --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Hi All, Details about the upcoming seminar and a registration form are now up on www.usjabiru.com for download. Topics to be covered and class schedule are included. Pete ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:48 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: right angle drill? Tight Fit Tools at http://www.tightfittools.com/ -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? Steve, I got a right angle drill attachment directly from Tight Fit Tools. I don't remember what I paid for it, but whatever it was, it was worth it. I can't count the times and places that I've used it. In fact, I have been using it this morning. I got extra bits in sizes 40, 30, 20 & 3/16". I can recommend it with one caveat: It is a two-handed opration, so if you need to press a wood block behind whatever you are drilling, you'll need another hand. They have a good web site. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:08 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Zenith-List: Another Flyin in Mexico. Hello Friends, Well, we had the chance to go to another close by Club fly in, I know that is something normal for you in USA, You have more local flyins, breakfast and 100 dls hamburgers, that you can attend. But here there are so few that now that we have more of them every year, makes me happy. The flight was great, part of the flight (a little more that an hour away in the 701), near the historic town of Dolores Hidalgo, Guanajuato. Was for the Independence Day week end. There were not much airplanes, but got there from several clubs. Here are some fotos in our Clubs page. We are planning several flyins with the new Clubs (that are "springing" around here) for this winter, is the best time of the year to fly around here. Hope we soon have the 601 XL ready to fly. Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexco. 701 912S --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:33 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Yes, this is what I did and it worked out really well... I had to also purchase a drill chuck to fit the flex shaft to hold the drill, but it wasn't expensive... I got all of my Dremel stuff at Home Depot... I know Lowes carries all of this stuff as well... Randy XL Wings - Plans Only ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stone" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:11 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" > > Stephen, > The one and only quality miniature tool I can think of is the DREMEL. > The basic tool comes with 5 accessories for $59.95. There is an accessory > available for this tool called the FLEX-SHAFT for getting into real small > places and this attachment sells for $32.60. If you are interested I got > this information from the catalog. Wholesale tool Company. > http://www.wttool.com If you ask for a catalog they will send you one > and it's the cheapest outfit I ever heard of that quality US made tools. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > ZodiacXL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen R. Look" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:41 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: right angle drill? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" >> >> I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the >> trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a >> recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? >> >> Steve >> >> Steve Look >> Monticello, IL >> 601XL >> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:45 PM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: Progress Report ----- Original Message ----- From: Wade Jones Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: Progress Report Hello group ,I thought that I would give a two Month scratch building progress report .I received my first material shipment from ASC on July 26 2006 .Don't know if I am making good progress or not as I have nothing to compare it with .I am trying to sent a small picture ,hope it comes through . Those are not dents in the rudder & stab only light reflections .The people on this site have been a great help .I think I will slow down some soon as my golf handicap is going way up . Wade Jones South Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: Wade Jones Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Emailing: 100_2149 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 100_2149 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:51 PM PST US From: mcr01steiner@mac.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: mcr01steiner@mac.com On Tuesday, September 26, 2006, at 07:57AM, Ron Lalonde wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" > > >Hi Bryan >Appreciate your efforts. The HDS tail was made from a tail kit produced in >2000-2001 (approx) and the XL fuselage will be the current one. >Sure would like to use this completed tail kit on the XL. In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to one piece ( 6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was widened to fit the straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as consequence the stabilizer attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved accordingly. Material thickness of the front and rear spar of the stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032" respectively t=.040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More changes in the elevator (trim tab) etc. Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new fuselage. Christoph Steiner 601XL ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:03 PM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger Steve . . . I believe the product is Tight Fit Drill Kit made by the Onmi Manufacturing Company in Sante Fe Springs, CA. The drill attaschment(s) work great both in a straight ahead mode and at right angles. It saved my bacon a couple of times. Robert Schoenberger 701 Paul Mulwitz wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > Hi Steve, > > I use a right angle drill attachment for my drill. It takes 1/4x28 > threaded drill bits. I use the same short threaded drill bits for all > my aluminum drilling. I made a threaded round bar for my drill to > mount these bits, but there are many right angle kits that come with > an adapter for your drill. > > I think I got my right angle drill from Aircraft Spruce, but I looked > in the current online catalog and didn't find the same one. I paid > around $50 for a reduced kit that didn't include the fancy plastic > case. It just came with the right angle adapter, a couple of > extensions and a small handful of drill bits. > > Paul > XL fuselage > > > At 06:41 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" >> >> I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the >> trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a >> recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? >> >> Steve >> >> Steve Look >> Monticello, IL >> 601XL >> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" >> >> _- > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:30 PM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Progress Report Holy cow dude. You made all of that in two months? I'm over a year in and you're ahead of me. I knew this whole "work for a living" thing was slowin' me down. What you've got there looks really good - now go get some sleep! Debo Cox XL/Corvair Working on wing spars --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:12 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin So it won't do any good to measure my fuselage since I have one of the early kits. The HD stabilizer would probably fit on my XL but not a more recent one. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: mcr01steiner@mac.com > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >> >> >> >> Hi Bryan >> Appreciate your efforts. The HDS tail was made from a tail kit >> produced in >> 2000-2001 (approx) and the XL fuselage will be the current one. >> Sure would like to use this completed tail kit on the XL. > > In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to > one piece ( 6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was > widened to fit the straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as > consequence the stabilizer attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved > accordingly. Material thickness of the front and rear spar of the > stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032" respectively t=. > 040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More changes in > the elevator (trim tab) etc. > > Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new > fuselage. > > Christoph Steiner > > 601XL > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:33 PM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: nose gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield hi list, i have installed my nose gear on my XL, and it is really tight. it will not move up and down on the bearings without a lot of force. is this normal or should i try and loosen the bearings. i assume the gear will loosen up after use, but it does seem pretty tight. I don't see any reason to paint the gear above the down stop ring, is this right? thanks in advance john butterfield 601XL, corvair Torrance, CA __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:08 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: nose gear John: It was about impossible to get the nose gear to bounce until I mounted the engine. Then I could grab the prop flange and easily bounce it up and down. Jack in Los Osos CA Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try From: "Jeffrey J Paris" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" Dear George, My name is Jeff Paris and I just outside Rochester, NY. I have 106 hours on my Jabiru equipped XL. I would be more than willing to go flying with you for a tank of gas and a lunch. I flew with a guy out of Ottawa Canada and I can tell you that it was well worth the trip to get a feel for my bird. Let me know. Sincerely, Jeff Paris N196ZP Jabiru 3300 CH601XL --- On Sat 09/23, george may < gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM > wrote: From: george may [mailto: gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM] Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Familiarization Flight time--2nd try _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:52 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" This is not something to guess about. Quit farting around and contact Zenith. Sorry, there are some things that are out of the realm of the list. Even if your grandkids are ineligible for a medical by the time you get a response. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde" Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 8:30 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" > > Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already > fabricated 601HDS stabilator to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach > fittings would have to be wider. > > Is this possible? > RON > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: nose gear From: "Tom" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" On the 801 it also calls for that area to be greased. -------- Tom CH801 http://tompizza.webhop.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64093#64093 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:00 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" If the nurses I had could be considered "Cute", dogs belong on the centerfold of Playboy. With my endorsement. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ruddiman" Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 10:43 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > > As long as 2 cute nurses put you to sleep, who cares what they do. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Naumuk" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:40 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >> >> R.P- >> Good. I just received a product from ACS with their bar code stock >> label calling out a different grade than that of the manufacturer's. It's >> getting scary. Like going in for a colonoscopy and coming out with a >> colonectomy! >> Bill Naumuk >> HDS Fuselage >> Townville, Pa >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "R.P." >> To: >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:46 AM >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Bill Naumuk" >>> To: >>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:01 AM >>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question >>> >>> >>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >>>> >>>> Just to make sure- the HDS plans call for standard ADs, right? Or did I >>>> miss something? >>>> Bill Naumuk >>> >>> No Bill, you didn't miss anything. Those are AN470-AD Rivets. >>> Keep on building :) >>> >>> Rick Pitcher >>> 601HD, w/HDS outer wing panel project sitting on the shelf waiting... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:07 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Odd materials sources From: "leinad" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" Before I go to Zenith, I thought I'd ask here. Where do you get the following. Nyloil cork stips dzus strips (do I make these?) .090 acrylic (for landing light cover) Dan (central Virginia) -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64103#64103 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:58 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Dremel now makes a pistol-grip cordless tool which is very compact. I haven't had a chance to try one out but I'm putting it on my Christmas list. Meantime, I have had good luck with the right-angle kit that someone mentioned. George Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stone" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:11 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" > > Stephen, > The one and only quality miniature tool I can think of is the DREMEL. > The basic tool comes with 5 accessories for $59.95. There is an accessory > available for this tool called the FLEX-SHAFT for getting into real small > places and this attachment sells for $32.60. If you are interested I got > this information from the catalog. Wholesale tool Company. > http://www.wttool.com If you ask for a catalog they will send you one and > it's the cheapest outfit I ever heard of that quality US made tools. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > ZodiacXL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen R. Look" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:41 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: right angle drill? > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > > > I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the > > trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a > > recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? > > > > Steve > > > > Steve Look > > Monticello, IL > > 601XL > > "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:40 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Odd materials sources --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Dan: I bought cork in a sheet from a local craft store and cut it into strips as needed. Good luck on the other stuff. George Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "leinad" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Odd materials sources > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" > > Before I go to Zenith, I thought I'd ask here. Where do you get the following. > Nyloil > cork stips > dzus strips (do I make these?) > .090 acrylic (for landing light cover) > > Dan (central Virginia) > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64103#64103 > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:25 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Odd materials sources --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I got the acrylic for one of my landing light covers from Home Depot. They gave me a scrap piece of Lexan that I used to make the other light cover. I got a roll of cork sheet from Ace Hardware when I ran out of the cork strip sent with the kit. I attached it with double sided carpet tape. (I also got some red silicone rubber sheet gasket material from Ace that I used on the main landing gear mounting instead of the split rubber hose provided by Zenith.) Aircraft Spruce and Wicks Aircraft (and probably others) have nylon material as well as acrylic and Lexan but unless you are buying a bunch of stuff, the shipping may be nearly as much as the order. Dzus strips? If you mean the springs for the dzus fasteners, these are also available from the usual online sources. On Sep 26, 2006, at 7:08 PM, leinad wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" > > Before I go to Zenith, I thought I'd ask here. Where do you get > the following. > Nyloil > cork stips > dzus strips (do I make these?) > .090 acrylic (for landing light cover) > > Dan (central Virginia) > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:36 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" Bill: I posed this question to BOTH Zenith Aircraft and the fellas at Can-ZacAviation (the Canadian distributors) BEFORE I posted to this list. So I wasnt farting around Bill. Both places I might add were freindly and knowledgeable but did not have the information at hand that I needed. I knew that a HDS builder with XL experience could provide the answer. Having the opportunity to purchase a HDS tail kit at an excellent price, I wanted to be absolutely, positively sure that the HDS tail kit would fit the current 601 XL. I did get a few replies as well stating that all 601 versions had the same tail kit. This information is supported by the website and ZAC literature which states this. Unfortunately, I have found that this is definately not the case with the XL version from 2005 on. I disagree with this question being "beyond the realm of this list". You should give the fellas on this list more credit than that. As you can see in the paragraph below, my question was answered quite adequately by a 601 XL builder by the name of Christoph Steiner. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to one piece ( 6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was widened to fit the straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as consequence the stabilizer attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved accordingly. Material thickness of the front and rear spar of the stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032" respectively t=.040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More changes in the elevator (trim tab) etc. Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new fuselage. Christoph Steiner, 601XL --------------------------------------------------------- Thank-you Chris for the thorough answer to my question. Much appreciated. Knowing that both the front and rear spar thicknesses have been increased does not make the HDS stabilator an option on a new 601 XL. As a new member of this list, and a new builder, I would like to be able to draw on the extensive experience of the Zenith Group. I would like to think that no question is too stupid to ask!! >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > >This is not something to guess about. Quit farting around and contact >Zenith. Sorry, there are some things that are out of the realm of the list. >Even if your grandkids are ineligible for a medical by the time you get a >response. >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa >----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde" >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >> >>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already >>fabricated 601HDS stabilizer to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach >>fittings would have to be wider. >> >>Is this possible? >>RON >> >> ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:15 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" My apologies. If you're satisfied, that's all that counts. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" > > Bill: > I posed this question to BOTH Zenith Aircraft and the fellas at > Can-ZacAviation (the Canadian distributors) BEFORE I posted to this list. > So I wasnt farting around Bill. Both places I might add were freindly and > knowledgeable but did not have the information at hand that I needed. I > knew that a HDS builder with XL experience could provide the answer. > Having the opportunity to purchase a HDS tail kit at an excellent price, I > wanted to be absolutely, positively sure that the HDS tail kit would fit > the current 601 XL. > > I did get a few replies as well stating that all 601 versions had the same > tail kit. This information is supported by the website and ZAC literature > which states this. Unfortunately, I have found that this is definately not > the case with the XL version from 2005 on. > > I disagree with this question being "beyond the realm of this list". You > should give the fellas on this list more credit than that. As you can see > in the paragraph below, my question was answered quite adequately by a 601 > XL builder by the name of Christoph Steiner. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to one piece > ( > 6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was widened to fit the > straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as consequence the stabilizer > attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved accordingly. Material thickness of the > front > and rear spar of the stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032" > respectively t=.040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More > changes in > the elevator (trim tab) etc. > > Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new fuselage. > Christoph Steiner, 601XL > --------------------------------------------------------- > Thank-you Chris for the thorough answer to my question. Much appreciated. > Knowing that both the front and rear spar thicknesses have been increased > does not make the HDS stabilator an option on a new 601 XL. > As a new member of this list, and a new builder, I would like to be able > to draw on the extensive experience of the Zenith Group. > I would like to think that no question is too stupid to ask!! > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >> >>This is not something to guess about. Quit farting around and contact >>Zenith. Sorry, there are some things that are out of the realm of the >>list. Even if your grandkids are ineligible for a medical by the time you >>get a response. >>Bill Naumuk >>HDS Fuselage >>Townville, Pa > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde" >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >>> >>>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already >>>fabricated 601HDS stabilizer to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach >>>fittings would have to be wider. >>> >>>Is this possible? >>>RON >>> >>> > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Odd materials sources From: "leinad" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" [quDzus strips? If you mean the springs for the dzus fasteners, these are also available from the usual online sources.ote][/quote] On the plans for the optional wing locker they specify dzus strips. I assume these are metal strips with reqularly spaced dzus spring fasteners, but the plans are no more specific. They may intend that I make these. I especially want to find a source for the nyloil. This is oil empregnated nylon, specified for the nose gear bearings top and bottom. -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64165#64165 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:04 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Hmm, I could have been dreaming. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Naumuk" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > If the nurses I had could be considered "Cute", dogs belong on the > centerfold of Playboy. With my endorsement. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Ruddiman" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 10:43 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >> >> >> As long as 2 cute nurses put you to sleep, who cares what they do. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill Naumuk" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:40 PM >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >>> >>> R.P- >>> Good. I just received a product from ACS with their bar code stock >>> label calling out a different grade than that of the manufacturer's. >>> It's getting scary. Like going in for a colonoscopy and coming out with >>> a colonectomy! >>> Bill Naumuk >>> HDS Fuselage >>> Townville, Pa >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "R.P." >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question >>> >>> >>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Bill Naumuk" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:01 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar question >>>> >>>> >>>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >>>>> >>>>> Just to make sure- the HDS plans call for standard ADs, right? Or did >>>>> I miss something? >>>>> Bill Naumuk >>>> >>>> No Bill, you didn't miss anything. Those are AN470-AD Rivets. >>>> Keep on building :) >>>> >>>> Rick Pitcher >>>> 601HD, w/HDS outer wing panel project sitting on the shelf waiting... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:12 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Odd materials sources --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >[ On my plans, the Dzus springs are mounted on standard (.025?) aluminum strips. The builder has to fit the strips to the wing locker opening in the skin and locate the springs in the right places to match the Dzus "Screws" in the locker cover. I used tiny soft solid rivets to hole the springs in place -- in much the same fashion as nut plates. I don't have the dimensions handy, but if you need them, I can get them out in my shop (where my plans are). It is a little tricky to make holes in the strips match the holes in the locker cover, but the process I used was similar to the Match drilling and Line drilling used for rivets. Paul XL fuselage >quDzus strips? If you mean the springs for the dzus fasteners, these >are also available from the usual online sources.ote][/quote] > >On the plans for the optional wing locker they specify dzus >strips. I assume these are metal strips with reqularly spaced dzus >spring fasteners, but the plans are no more specific. They may >intend that I make these. > >I especially want to find a source for the nyloil. This is oil >empregnated nylon, specified for the nose gear bearings top and bottom. > >-------- >Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine >