Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:27 AM - Re: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions (Clive Richards)
2. 05:07 AM - EZ Pilot Dispaly Question (John Livsey)
3. 05:58 AM - Icom IC-A200 (LRM)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions (nick@aoaircrafters.com)
5. 07:43 AM - Changed out gear plates on HDS (LarryMcFarland)
6. 07:59 AM - Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question (Craig Payne)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: Icom IC-A200 (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 08:51 AM - Re: Riveting oneself into a corner ()
9. 09:48 AM - Need a dimension please... (AZFlyer)
10. 10:15 AM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde)
11. 10:47 AM - Re: Need a dimension please... (Jaybannist@cs.com)
12. 10:49 AM - Rotax 912 engine alternatives DVD (Jon Croke)
13. 11:48 AM - Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question (Mike Fothergill)
14. 12:01 PM - test (Frank Probst)
15. 01:41 PM - Introduction of new member - South Africa (William Wilkinson)
16. 02:05 PM - Re: Riveting oneself into a corner (Robin Bellach)
17. 02:25 PM - aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! (Frank Probst)
18. 03:24 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Bill Naumuk)
19. 04:27 PM - test for email address (David Mikesell)
20. 04:54 PM - Re: Fuselage support (Jaybannist@cs.com)
21. 05:16 PM - Re: aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! (LarryMcFarland)
22. 05:24 PM - Re: Introduction of new member - South Africa (LarryMcFarland)
23. 06:05 PM - Re: Introduction of new member - South Africa (Paul Mulwitz)
24. 06:46 PM - BAD ALUM on Market. (Zodie Rocket)
25. 07:55 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Rodney Mills)
26. 09:55 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" <stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
Hi Nick Ray Lasniers 601 HD has a 0-200
We have had no problem with oil cooling . Fitted
with original sump screen filter only no extra cooling we are however in the
UK so ambient may be lower than you have. We have had a Hot summer for us
this year and have flown in 85 f with no problem .
We have had no problem with the weight & Balance the empty weight is 720 lbs
& arm 9.137 inches (232.075 mm) the battery is in extreem rear & we have a
wooden (Lodge) pop due to weight this puts the plane on the forward limit
with a 140 lb pilot & full 16 US gallon header tank, no luggage. Our
inspector pointed out that the Zenith W & B sheet gives the wrong arm for
the baggage compartment (they give the measurment to the front of the
shelf ) it should be around 69.5 inch
Ray built is own engine baffling by copying and
triming to fit the baffels on a super cub which was down for a engine
rebuild.
The engine mount was built from a drawing from Zenith for the 601XL as
firewall mountings and offsets are the same.
His engine has the old heavy generator & starter fitted with these
accessorys fitted the engine complete weighs about 250 lbs. He has the 16
gallon header tank fitted so the 12 lbs Dry Fit battery is in the extreem
rear. You could probably shorten the mounting if you fit a light weight
starter & Alternator. The exhaust down pipes were from a C150
The Port side mounted 7 ft Throttle Idle cut off and Carb Ice controls as
fitted to a C150 were from Aircraft Spruce
He made his own cowling by making a plug mold ( ie cover engine with
cling film cover this with expanding foam shape & lay up)
Clive Richards for Ray Lasnier G CBDG 30 Hrs
I will be changing my email address shortley due to the ammount of spam I
cannot stop.
I can find no way of deleating this or messages with pictures attached on
the server prior to downloading if I have to use dial up.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <nick@aoaircrafters.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com
>
> I have a Zodiac 601 HD with a Continental 0-200 A engine. The engine
> installation is about 25% complete.
>
> Two questions:
>
> --Do you have problems with oil cooling? If so, what provisions are
> made for oil cooling?
>
> --Do you have problems with aircraft weight and balance (i.e. the
> Continental 0-200 engine's weight as opposed to other possible models).
> If so what is generally done to correct the wieght and balance problem?
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> ~Nick
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | EZ Pilot Dispaly Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Livsey <jlivsey@bigpond.com>
Hi list,
I see that a few Zodiacs builders have fitted the EZ-Pilot autopilot and
was wondering if anyone has comments regarding which type of display
they bought, the LCD or PLED ???.
This is the comment from the Trio site on the subject.
*
**Owners of aircraft with large clear canopies will find a LCD (Liquid
Crystal Display) is somewhat more readable in high ambient light while
the PLED (Vacuum Fluorescent Display) shown above stands out when the
instrument panel is shaded from the sun. *
As I am thinking of going down this path any suggestions would be
appreciated.
John Livsey
Message 3
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Anybody out there got a used or non-working ICOM IC A-200 Transceiver
for sale. Somehow my fine tuning knob got broken off. And you wouldn't
believe what they want to fix it. Contact me at lrm@skyhawg.com.
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
Message 4
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| Subject: | Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com
Clive,
Thanks, that was very informative. I may just have to sit down and do
the math- as per weight and balance. I do not have a header tank, only
wing tanks. This should help counteract the nose forward moment. I
would rather mount my battery on the front of the firewall (around 15
lbs), as this is a little less time consuming than mounting the battery
in the tail.
As for the engine baffling, after many phone calls to AMD (Aircraft
Manufacturing and Development), I finally convinced them to ship me a
baffling kit for the 0-200. I wish I had a picture of the front engine
baffling, as I have to modify what they sent me because I do not have an
engine driven fuel pump (mounted front right on the engine). Any
pictures would be appreciated.
Thanks much :)
~nick
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions
> From: "Clive Richards" <stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
> Date: Wed, September 27, 2006 3:21 am
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" <stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
>
> Hi Nick Ray Lasniers 601 HD has a 0-200
> We have had no problem with oil cooling . Fitted
> with original sump screen filter only no extra cooling we are however in the
> UK so ambient may be lower than you have. We have had a Hot summer for us
> this year and have flown in 85 f with no problem .
>
> We have had no problem with the weight & Balance the empty weight is 720 lbs
> & arm 9.137 inches (232.075 mm) the battery is in extreem rear & we have a
> wooden (Lodge) pop due to weight this puts the plane on the forward limit
> with a 140 lb pilot & full 16 US gallon header tank, no luggage. Our
> inspector pointed out that the Zenith W & B sheet gives the wrong arm for
> the baggage compartment (they give the measurment to the front of the
> shelf ) it should be around 69.5 inch
> Ray built is own engine baffling by copying and
> triming to fit the baffels on a super cub which was down for a engine
> rebuild.
> The engine mount was built from a drawing from Zenith for the 601XL as
> firewall mountings and offsets are the same.
> His engine has the old heavy generator & starter fitted with these
> accessorys fitted the engine complete weighs about 250 lbs. He has the 16
> gallon header tank fitted so the 12 lbs Dry Fit battery is in the extreem
> rear. You could probably shorten the mounting if you fit a light weight
> starter & Alternator. The exhaust down pipes were from a C150
> The Port side mounted 7 ft Throttle Idle cut off and Carb Ice controls as
> fitted to a C150 were from Aircraft Spruce
> He made his own cowling by making a plug mold ( ie cover engine with
> cling film cover this with expanding foam shape & lay up)
> Clive Richards for Ray Lasnier G CBDG 30 Hrs
> I will be changing my email address shortley due to the ammount of spam I
> cannot stop.
> I can find no way of deleating this or messages with pictures attached on
> the server prior to downloading if I have to use dial up.
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <nick@aoaircrafters.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:33 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com
> >
> > I have a Zodiac 601 HD with a Continental 0-200 A engine. The engine
> > installation is about 25% complete.
> >
> > Two questions:
> >
> > --Do you have problems with oil cooling? If so, what provisions are
> > made for oil cooling?
> >
> > --Do you have problems with aircraft weight and balance (i.e. the
> > Continental 0-200 engine's weight as opposed to other possible models).
> > If so what is generally done to correct the wieght and balance problem?
> >
> > Thanks guys,
> >
> > ~Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Changed out gear plates on HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi guys,
I finally moved the fuselage into the booth for painting, but first
had to remove the gear box, strut and bungees on the main gear.
There were only 85-hours on the plane, but I inspected the guides
and strut cross tube. No wear or even missing paint. I did have one
bungee that had been damaged, probably during the first excruciating
assembly of the 32 bolts and nuts. It still took hours to reassemble
each gear box with a custom socket welded to a short L-arm extension.
I jigged and matched the plates, then cut off the strut half an inch
from the
plate, squared the end and slid the weldment tube with 1/4 inch plate into
the strut. The strut was drilled first and the weldment tube match drilled
to it. The gear is now 1/4 inch longer, held by a 1/4-inch AN4 and the
main wheel alignment has a 6-tenths of a degree toe in. The socket and
plate replacement is a very viable way to change out the plate thickness
and eliminate the potential for gear plate failure.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.gif
Thought you'd like to know,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | EZ Pilot Dispaly Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
FWIW Trio and I agreed that the LCD was the best match for a low-wing plane
with a bubble canopy flying day VFR. So that is what I bought. But I haven't
flown it yet.
-- Craig
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Icom IC-A200 |
I have an apparently working but old Icom IC-A2. This is a hand held
VHF comm. only transceiver. I got it new in trade for an HF amateur
transceiver, and have never really used it. I have the A/C charger,
but no instruction manual. Right now, I can't even figure out which
buttons to push to get the frequency I want.
If anybody wants this --let me know.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:56 AM 9/27/2006, you wrote:
>Anybody out there got a used or non-working ICOM IC A-200
>Transceiver for sale. Somehow my fine tuning knob got broken
>off. And you wouldn't believe what they want to fix it. Contact me
>at <mailto:lrm@skyhawg.com>lrm@skyhawg.com.
>
>
>Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
-
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting oneself into a corner |
Hey guys, there's an easier way than having to work up a nosepiece to
fit your job. Several years ago somebody on this list came up with an
easy way: As I recall, it went like this: 1: Using the appropriate
size bit, drill a hole lengthwise into a chunk of bolt or round bar.
2: Cut the bolt or bar to an appropriate length, on a slant that wil
l give you room for the riveter. Cup the slanted end as with the nosep
iece. 3: Slip the mandrel through your "new nosepiece", and into the
riveter, putting a slight bend in the mandrel. You then get a pull pe
rpendicular to the work, with your riveter on a slant. I had several
rivets that I needed to do this, and it worked.=0A=0APaul Rodrig
uez=0A601XL/Corvair=0AStill on the canopy=0A ----- Original
Message ----- =0A From: Tommy Walker<mailto:twalker@cableone.net>
=0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com
> =0A Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:00 AM=0A Subject: Re
: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner=0A=0A=0A --
> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" <dbortol@gmail.com<mailto:d
bortol@gmail.com>>=0A =0A I just felt like drawing
something. See the attached photo (30KB).=0A =0A
Dino Bortolin=0A La Salle, Ontario=0A XL/Corvair
=0A =0A=0A Very neat Dino. I wish I had the equipmen
t to turn that drawing into a steel nose piece. My file and hand dril
l made one, but not anything that looked as good as your drawing.
=0A=0A Tommy Walker in Alabama=0A Do Not Archive=0A=0A
=======================
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matro
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=============0A=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | Need a dimension please... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
601 XL Aileron threaded steel rod at bellcrank, 6-W-10. Cannot locate finished
length on drawing, for 5/16" steel rod. Only shown is L=230, which is stock
size.
Anybody?
Thanks, Mike
do not archive
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64280#64280
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde@hotmail.com>
No apology required.
I will be sticking with the older pre-2005 tail kit. The prognosis is not
too bad. The job can be done.
Cant say enough about the help that the Zenith gang has provided, both at
the factory and at the Canadian distributorship. If you ever have a
question, Mark and Dave at Can-Zac are the most helpful people you could run
into.
Thanks to all you guys on the list as well. Taking time to answer questions
from a newbie like myself is truly appreciated.
I will try not to pester you guys to death!!!!
Thanks again
Ron
Debert, Nova Scotia, Canada
601 XL, #6520
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>My apologies. If you're satisfied, that's all that counts.
>Bill Naumuk
>HDS Fuselage
>Townville, Pa
>>Bill:
>>I posed this question to BOTH Zenith Aircraft and the fellas at
>>Can-ZacAviation (the Canadian distributors) BEFORE I posted to this list.
>>So I wasnt farting around Bill. Both places I might add were freindly and
>>knowledgeable but did not have the information at hand that I needed. I
>>knew that a HDS builder with XL experience could provide the answer.
>>Having the opportunity to purchase a HDS tail kit at an excellent price, I
>>wanted to be absolutely, positively sure that the HDS tail kit would fit
>>the current 601 XL.
>>
>>I did get a few replies as well stating that all 601 versions had the same
>>tail kit. This information is supported by the website and ZAC literature
>>which states this. Unfortunately, I have found that this is definately not
>>the case with the XL version from 2005 on.
>>
>>I disagree with this question being "beyond the realm of this list". You
>>should give the fellas on this list more credit than that. As you can see
>>in the paragraph below, my question was answered quite adequately by a 601
>>XL builder by the name of Christoph Steiner.
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to one piece
>>(
>>6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was widened to fit the
>>straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as consequence the stabilizer
>>attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved accordingly. Material thickness of the
>>front
>>and rear spar of the stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032"
>>respectively t=.040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More
>>changes in
>>the elevator (trim tab) etc.
>>
>>Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new fuselage.
>>Christoph Steiner, 601XL
>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>Thank-you Chris for the thorough answer to my question. Much appreciated.
>>Knowing that both the front and rear spar thicknesses have been increased
>>does not make the HDS stabilator an option on a new 601 XL.
>>As a new member of this list, and a new builder, I would like to be able
>>to draw on the extensive experience of the Zenith Group.
>>I would like to think that no question is too stupid to ask!!
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>>>
>>>This is not something to guess about. Quit farting around and contact
>>>Zenith. Sorry, there are some things that are out of the realm of the
>>>list. Even if your grandkids are ineligible for a medical by the time you
>>>get a response.
>>>Bill Naumuk
>>>HDS Fuselage
>>>Townville, Pa
>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde"
>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde@hotmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already
>>>>fabricated 601HDS stabilizer to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach
>>>>fittings would have to be wider.
>>>>
>>>>Is this possible?
>>>>RON
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Need a dimension please... |
Mike, This is one of those places where you have to determine the length
yourself. (And this won't be the last one) You need to thread the rod into one
of the ball end joints and bolt it to the bellcrank. Bolt the other ball joint
to the aileron control horn. Place the bellcrank and aileron in their
centered position. Hold the rod along side the aileron ball end and mark the rod
where it needs to be cut off. I like to plan for the rod end to be about half
way between the ball joint inspection hole and the bottom of the barrel. That
way, you still have some room for adjustment.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 12
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 engine alternatives DVD |
Of interest to anyone researching alternative engine choices to the
Rotax 912 ! (A targeted advertisement)
HomebuiltHelp has just released a new DVD that compiles
interviews/demonstrations from 7 engine vendors that compete with the
912 class of engine (Stratus Subaru, Jabiru, Rotec radial, AeroVee,
Wynne Corvair, Raven Redrive, and Great Plains VW).
This is a great one stop video catalog with footage contributed by these
vendors to HomebuiltHELP for the purpose of educating the homebuilder on
the most popular engine alternatives in the 80-120 hp range.
Complete details can be found at
http://homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm
Thanks!
Jon
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi;
I have the LCD Display. Seems to be OK in sun.
Mike
UHS Spinners
CH-601HDS 1000hrs+
John Livsey wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Livsey <jlivsey@bigpond.com>
>
> Hi list,
>
> I see that a few Zodiacs builders have fitted the EZ-Pilot autopilot and
> was wondering if anyone has comments regarding which type of display
> they bought, the LCD or PLED ???.
>
> This is the comment from the Trio site on the subject.
> *
> **Owners of aircraft with large clear canopies will find a LCD (Liquid
> Crystal Display) is somewhat more readable in high ambient light while
> the PLED (Vacuum Fluorescent Display) shown above stands out when the
> instrument panel is shaded from the sun. *
>
>
> As I am thinking of going down this path any suggestions would be
> appreciated.
>
> John Livsey
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Probst" <fprobst@hotmail.com>
test
Message 15
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| Subject: | Introduction of new member - South Africa |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson" <wwilkinson@mweb.co.za>
I have been registered on this list for a few months and have learned a lot.
I received my 601XL plans a year ago and studied it in detail. Also watched
the DVD by Homebuilt.com.
I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in South
Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily all the 6061T6
sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor.
There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the flat bar
for the main spars available but without the quality marking every few
inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings)
I am working for a petrochemical factory in Secunda, South Africa. On site
is a metallurgical laboratory that is willing to do a physical tensile
strenght on a sample and confirm the chemical property of the material.(E.g.
Silicon content) Otherwise I will have to import the angles and flatbar at
an enormous price.
However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take chances
with inferior materials.
Regards
William Wilkinson
Secunda, South Africa
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting oneself into a corner |
Isn't that a description of what Dino so nicely drew, or am I missing
something?
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36@msn.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner
Hey guys, there's an easier way than having to work up a nosepiece to
fit your job. Several years ago somebody on this list came up with an
easy way: As I recall, it went like this: 1: Using the appropriate
size bit, drill a hole lengthwise into a chunk of bolt or round bar. 2:
Cut the bolt or bar to an appropriate length, on a slant that will give
you room for the riveter. Cup the slanted end as with the nosepiece. 3:
Slip the mandrel through your "new nosepiece", and into the riveter,
putting a slight bend in the mandrel. You then get a pull perpendicular
to the work, with your riveter on a slant. I had several rivets that I
needed to do this, and it worked.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
Still on the canopy
----- Original Message -----
From: Tommy Walker
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" <dbortol@gmail.com>
I just felt like drawing something. See the attached photo
(30KB).
Dino Bortolin
La Salle, Ontario
XL/Corvair
Very neat Dino. I wish I had the equipment to turn that drawing
into a steel nose piece. My file and hand drill made one, but not
anything that looked as good as your drawing.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenit===========
========-->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution============
==
Message 17
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| Subject: | aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Probst" <fprobst@hotmail.com>
I bought some aeroquip 303 hose today for my 601 912 install to do the oil
and fuel lines. It does not compress at all so hose clamps will not hold it
properly.
Do I need to put fittings onto the hose ends? How will fittings attach to
the barbs on my bing carbs and to the engine? Do I need to buy lighter duty
hose that will compress? I just hate to use the cheap heater hose that zac
supplies for the oil hose. I hope that I didn't just waste over a hundres
bucks on the 303 hose.
Thanks in advance for the advice
Frank Probst
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Ron-
I agree with your recommendation of Mark. His response time is nearly
instantaneous. Other than having seen him on the HBH DVDs, I've had no
correspondence with Dave, but it's obvious they're a team. Check out their
DVDs-you won't be sorry.
I also encourage you to keep up your thorough research. Many times it
takes weeks of posting to come up with the information you're looking for,
and it might come from a direction totally different from what you expected
to begin with. You have to realize that I only saw an early portion of the
string when I offered my comments. There may have been additions, but it's
only human nature to respond to the first stimulus.
The list is a powerful tool, but you have to be patient in learning how
to use it. You'll eventually find out that I give listers a lot more credit
than you think I do now.
Good building!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde@hotmail.com>
>
> No apology required.
> I will be sticking with the older pre-2005 tail kit. The prognosis is not
> too bad. The job can be done.
>
> Cant say enough about the help that the Zenith gang has provided, both at
> the factory and at the Canadian distributorship. If you ever have a
> question, Mark and Dave at Can-Zac are the most helpful people you could
> run into.
>
> Thanks to all you guys on the list as well. Taking time to answer
> questions from a newbie like myself is truly appreciated.
> I will try not to pester you guys to death!!!!
> Thanks again
>
> Ron
> Debert, Nova Scotia, Canada
> 601 XL, #6520
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>>My apologies. If you're satisfied, that's all that counts.
>>Bill Naumuk
>>HDS Fuselage
>>Townville, Pa
>>>Bill:
>>>I posed this question to BOTH Zenith Aircraft and the fellas at
>>>Can-ZacAviation (the Canadian distributors) BEFORE I posted to this list.
>>>So I wasnt farting around Bill. Both places I might add were freindly and
>>>knowledgeable but did not have the information at hand that I needed. I
>>>knew that a HDS builder with XL experience could provide the answer.
>>>Having the opportunity to purchase a HDS tail kit at an excellent price,
>>>I wanted to be absolutely, positively sure that the HDS tail kit would
>>>fit the current 601 XL.
>>>
>>>I did get a few replies as well stating that all 601 versions had the
>>>same tail kit. This information is supported by the website and ZAC
>>>literature which states this. Unfortunately, I have found that this is
>>>definately not the case with the XL version from 2005 on.
>>>
>>>I disagree with this question being "beyond the realm of this list". You
>>>should give the fellas on this list more credit than that. As you can see
>>>in the paragraph below, my question was answered quite adequately by a
>>>601 XL builder by the name of Christoph Steiner.
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to one
>>>piece (
>>>6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was widened to fit the
>>>straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as consequence the stabilizer
>>>attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved accordingly. Material thickness of the
>>>front
>>>and rear spar of the stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032"
>>>respectively t=.040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More
>>>changes in
>>>the elevator (trim tab) etc.
>>>
>>>Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new
>>>fuselage.
>>>Christoph Steiner, 601XL
>>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>>Thank-you Chris for the thorough answer to my question. Much appreciated.
>>>Knowing that both the front and rear spar thicknesses have been increased
>>>does not make the HDS stabilator an option on a new 601 XL.
>>>As a new member of this list, and a new builder, I would like to be able
>>>to draw on the extensive experience of the Zenith Group.
>>>I would like to think that no question is too stupid to ask!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>>>>
>>>>This is not something to guess about. Quit farting around and contact
>>>>Zenith. Sorry, there are some things that are out of the realm of the
>>>>list. Even if your grandkids are ineligible for a medical by the time
>>>>you get a response.
>>>>Bill Naumuk
>>>>HDS Fuselage
>>>>Townville, Pa
>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde"
>>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde@hotmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already
>>>>>fabricated 601HDS stabilizer to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach
>>>>>fittings would have to be wider.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this possible?
>>>>>RON
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | test for email address |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
Test
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:41 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Changed out gear plates on HDS
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi guys,
> I finally moved the fuselage into the booth for painting, but first
> had to remove the gear box, strut and bungees on the main gear.
> There were only 85-hours on the plane, but I inspected the guides
> and strut cross tube. No wear or even missing paint. I did have one
> bungee that had been damaged, probably during the first excruciating
> assembly of the 32 bolts and nuts. It still took hours to reassemble
> each gear box with a custom socket welded to a short L-arm extension.
> I jigged and matched the plates, then cut off the strut half an inch
> from the
> plate, squared the end and slid the weldment tube with 1/4 inch plate into
> the strut. The strut was drilled first and the weldment tube match
drilled
> to it. The gear is now 1/4 inch longer, held by a 1/4-inch AN4 and the
> main wheel alignment has a 6-tenths of a degree toe in. The socket and
> plate replacement is a very viable way to change out the plate thickness
> and eliminate the potential for gear plate failure.
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.gif
>
> Thought you'd like to know,
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage support |
I said that I'd keep you informed about ZACs response to my question. They
(I'm assuming that it was Nick) got back to me today. After reviewing my
photos, he concluded that the fuselage was essentially finished, so I can move
it
just about any way I need to. That's a lot clearer response than I expected,
so I am now a little more appreciative of ZACs help.(FWIW, I couldn't help
noticeing that no one from the Forum responded to my question.)
Jay in Dallas, working on XL canopy
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Frank,
You've bought a hose that needs to use special screw-on fittings. The
hose will be a superior product than most others if
you go ahead and buy the fittings for it. They're not inexpensive, but
durable and tough to a fault. I used similar for my
fuel and brake lines where there is motion. Glad I did! The fittings
are #491 and guidance on fitting them is in the Aircraft
Spruce Catalog if you can't find it elsewhere. For the Bings, I used
hose clamps and barbs to secure the hose.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Frank Probst wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Probst" <fprobst@hotmail.com>
>
> I bought some aeroquip 303 hose today for my 601 912 install to do the
> oil and fuel lines. It does not compress at all so hose clamps will
> not hold it properly.
>
> Do I need to put fittings onto the hose ends? How will fittings
> attach to the barbs on my bing carbs and to the engine? Do I need to
> buy lighter duty hose that will compress? I just hate to use the
> cheap heater hose that zac supplies for the oil hose. I hope that I
> didn't just waste over a hundres bucks on the 303 hose.
>
> Thanks in advance for the advice
>
> Frank Probst
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction of new member - South Africa |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
William,
The parts you cannot get economically probably should be ordered from
Zenith. No testing required and some of the bending or special
work may already be done. You're quite correct about not just taking
the word of a supplier that materials are of some specific alloy.
Only if they have a good track record with the aviation community, you
should be inclined to trust them. I'd suggest you call Aircraft Spruce
and check with them for air freight of the materials you need.
Peachtree City, Georgia Phone 1-877-477-7823
Larry McFarland
do not archive
William Wilkinson wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson"
> <wwilkinson@mweb.co.za>
>
> I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in
> South Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily all
> the 6061T6 sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor.
>
> There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the
> flat bar for the main spars available but without the quality marking
> every few inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings)
>
> However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take
> chances with inferior materials.
>
> Regards
>
> William Wilkinson
> Secunda, South Africa
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction of new member - South Africa |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi William,
First let me say I am no expert on this subject. Then let me say it
seems that 6061T6 should be pretty much the same no matter who made
it or in what country it was made. This is a very common alloy for
aluminum which is used for many things besides aircraft designed by C. Heintz.
Perhaps you could contact the manufacturer in South Africa and ask
about the quality of this material and how it compares to USA made 6061T6.
I think the manufacturer should be able to convince you that his
aluminum alloy is just as good as the more expensive imported kind.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 01:38 PM 9/27/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson" <wwilkinson@mweb.co.za>
>
>I have been registered on this list for a few months and have learned a lot.
>
>I received my 601XL plans a year ago and studied it in detail. Also
>watched the DVD by Homebuilt.com.
>
>I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in
>South Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily
>all the 6061T6 sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor.
>
>There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the
>flat bar for the main spars available but without the quality
>marking every few inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings)
>
>I am working for a petrochemical factory in Secunda, South
>Africa. On site is a metallurgical laboratory that is willing to
>do a physical tensile strenght on a sample and confirm the chemical
>property of the material.(E.g. Silicon content) Otherwise I will
>have to import the angles and flatbar at an enormous price.
>
>However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take
>chances with inferior materials.
>
>Regards
>
>William Wilkinson
>Secunda, South Africa
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | BAD ALUM on Market. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Actually while were on this note I wish to make all scratch builders
that it has been brought to our attention that 6061-T6 alum manufactured
in China with a sheet marking starting with H (I can 't remember the
name at this moment but you will recognize it as a non American name) is
not of the same standard. We have done several tests with both Alcan and
the imported alum with the same 6061-T6 stamp and in each case the
import had prevailing cracks and on thicker pieces actually broke in the
bend while the Alcan product formed just fine. I don't have any more
info on this but be aware of what your buying.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson"
<wwilkinson@mweb.co.za>
I have been registered on this list for a few months and have learned a
lot.
I received my 601XL plans a year ago and studied it in detail. Also
watched
the DVD by Homebuilt.com.
I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in South
Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily all the
6061T6
sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor.
There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the flat
bar
for the main spars available but without the quality marking every few
inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings)
I am working for a petrochemical factory in Secunda, South Africa. On
site
is a metallurgical laboratory that is willing to do a physical tensile
strenght on a sample and confirm the chemical property of the
material.(E.g.
Silicon content) Otherwise I will have to import the angles and flatbar
at
an enormous price.
However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take
chances
with inferior materials.
Regards
William Wilkinson
Secunda, South Africa
--
9/27/2006
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
Listers,
I built my stabilizer in 2004. Received the remainder of the kit in
November 2005. Zenith informed me that the front mount on my stabilizer
must be widened to fit the fuselage in the current kit. I believe the
new width was 14mm wider but am not looking at the plans. I spoke to
Roger about this as it would require removing the skin and drilling new
holes in the spar very close to the current holes. I believe that will
cause problems with edge distance. I am not to the point of making a
decision yet but am looking at making a new fuse bulkhead to correctly
fit my stab as has been done by at least one other builder. So yes, the
mounting is wider on the newer version XL than before. I do not know
about the 601HDS.
Rodney Mills
Northport, AL
601XL / Corvair
Working on wings
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde@hotmail.com>
Hi Rodney
Here are two replies reference the fix for this problem that I received from
Tom L., one
of the builders on the list. By the time I get far enough along in my
project this problem will probably
have a illustrated and documented fix in place.
The guys at the Zenith factory, and the Can-Zac fellas are right on the ball
with all this stuff....I am impressed. This Tom L. has solved this problem
too.
It does not appear to be much of a problem to fix. (But dont forget, I am a
Newbie!! LOL)
----
Shim's ---.063 and .125 (1/8") "cut to fit" like the top of 6B1-9 ---the
shims go
on the inside of 6B1-9 with the .125 lappin over the upper longerons.
Will transfer the load and whould work just fine---anywaythats what I did
and the DAR approved it. Tnx, Tom
---------
Yes, the stablizer attach fittings seem to fit nice and close in the
shimmed area top
of 6B1-9--the same three rivits at top of 6B1-9 should go through the .125
shim.
the .063 served as a fill spacer -- the .063 is about the same thickness as
the
skin .025 and the upper longeron .040 and by the time you spray the ship and
other two
items with eching primer or zinc, it takes up the space for a good
spacer---I also
run the fix by Roger at ZAC.
Seem to be just as good as its ever going to get. Good luck.
You can type at me any time on anything else. Tom L.
---------------------------------------
Hope this helps you
Ron
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
>
>Listers,
> I built my stabilizer in 2004. Received the remainder of the kit in
>November 2005. Zenith informed me that the front mount on my stabilizer
>must be widened to fit the fuselage in the current kit. I believe the new
>width was 14mm wider but am not looking at the plans. I spoke to Roger
>about this as it would require removing the skin and drilling new holes in
>the spar very close to the current holes. I believe that will cause
>problems with edge distance. I am not to the point of making a decision yet
>but am looking at making a new fuse bulkhead to correctly fit my stab as
>has been done by at least one other builder. So yes, the mounting is wider
>on the newer version XL than before. I do not know about the 601HDS.
>
>Rodney Mills
>Northport, AL
>601XL / Corvair
>Working on wings
>
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