---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/27/06: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:27 AM - Re: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions (Clive Richards) 2. 05:07 AM - EZ Pilot Dispaly Question (John Livsey) 3. 05:58 AM - Icom IC-A200 (LRM) 4. 07:10 AM - Re: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions (nick@aoaircrafters.com) 5. 07:43 AM - Changed out gear plates on HDS (LarryMcFarland) 6. 07:59 AM - Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question (Craig Payne) 7. 08:23 AM - Re: Icom IC-A200 (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 08:51 AM - Re: Riveting oneself into a corner () 9. 09:48 AM - Need a dimension please... (AZFlyer) 10. 10:15 AM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde) 11. 10:47 AM - Re: Need a dimension please... (Jaybannist@cs.com) 12. 10:49 AM - Rotax 912 engine alternatives DVD (Jon Croke) 13. 11:48 AM - Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question (Mike Fothergill) 14. 12:01 PM - test (Frank Probst) 15. 01:41 PM - Introduction of new member - South Africa (William Wilkinson) 16. 02:05 PM - Re: Riveting oneself into a corner (Robin Bellach) 17. 02:25 PM - aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! (Frank Probst) 18. 03:24 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Bill Naumuk) 19. 04:27 PM - test for email address (David Mikesell) 20. 04:54 PM - Re: Fuselage support (Jaybannist@cs.com) 21. 05:16 PM - Re: aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! (LarryMcFarland) 22. 05:24 PM - Re: Introduction of new member - South Africa (LarryMcFarland) 23. 06:05 PM - Re: Introduction of new member - South Africa (Paul Mulwitz) 24. 06:46 PM - BAD ALUM on Market. (Zodie Rocket) 25. 07:55 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Rodney Mills) 26. 09:55 PM - Re: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL (Ron Lalonde) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:31 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" Hi Nick Ray Lasniers 601 HD has a 0-200 We have had no problem with oil cooling . Fitted with original sump screen filter only no extra cooling we are however in the UK so ambient may be lower than you have. We have had a Hot summer for us this year and have flown in 85 f with no problem . We have had no problem with the weight & Balance the empty weight is 720 lbs & arm 9.137 inches (232.075 mm) the battery is in extreem rear & we have a wooden (Lodge) pop due to weight this puts the plane on the forward limit with a 140 lb pilot & full 16 US gallon header tank, no luggage. Our inspector pointed out that the Zenith W & B sheet gives the wrong arm for the baggage compartment (they give the measurment to the front of the shelf ) it should be around 69.5 inch Ray built is own engine baffling by copying and triming to fit the baffels on a super cub which was down for a engine rebuild. The engine mount was built from a drawing from Zenith for the 601XL as firewall mountings and offsets are the same. His engine has the old heavy generator & starter fitted with these accessorys fitted the engine complete weighs about 250 lbs. He has the 16 gallon header tank fitted so the 12 lbs Dry Fit battery is in the extreem rear. You could probably shorten the mounting if you fit a light weight starter & Alternator. The exhaust down pipes were from a C150 The Port side mounted 7 ft Throttle Idle cut off and Carb Ice controls as fitted to a C150 were from Aircraft Spruce He made his own cowling by making a plug mold ( ie cover engine with cling film cover this with expanding foam shape & lay up) Clive Richards for Ray Lasnier G CBDG 30 Hrs I will be changing my email address shortley due to the ammount of spam I cannot stop. I can find no way of deleating this or messages with pictures attached on the server prior to downloading if I have to use dial up. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:33 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions > --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com > > I have a Zodiac 601 HD with a Continental 0-200 A engine. The engine > installation is about 25% complete. > > Two questions: > > --Do you have problems with oil cooling? If so, what provisions are > made for oil cooling? > > --Do you have problems with aircraft weight and balance (i.e. the > Continental 0-200 engine's weight as opposed to other possible models). > If so what is generally done to correct the wieght and balance problem? > > Thanks guys, > > ~Nick > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:44 AM PST US From: John Livsey Subject: Zenith-List: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Livsey Hi list, I see that a few Zodiacs builders have fitted the EZ-Pilot autopilot and was wondering if anyone has comments regarding which type of display they bought, the LCD or PLED ???. This is the comment from the Trio site on the subject. * **Owners of aircraft with large clear canopies will find a LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) is somewhat more readable in high ambient light while the PLED (Vacuum Fluorescent Display) shown above stands out when the instrument panel is shaded from the sun. * As I am thinking of going down this path any suggestions would be appreciated. John Livsey ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:25 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Zenith-List: Icom IC-A200 Anybody out there got a used or non-working ICOM IC A-200 Transceiver for sale. Somehow my fine tuning knob got broken off. And you wouldn't believe what they want to fix it. Contact me at lrm@skyhawg.com. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:23 AM PST US From: nick@aoaircrafters.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com Clive, Thanks, that was very informative. I may just have to sit down and do the math- as per weight and balance. I do not have a header tank, only wing tanks. This should help counteract the nose forward moment. I would rather mount my battery on the front of the firewall (around 15 lbs), as this is a little less time consuming than mounting the battery in the tail. As for the engine baffling, after many phone calls to AMD (Aircraft Manufacturing and Development), I finally convinced them to ship me a baffling kit for the 0-200. I wish I had a picture of the front engine baffling, as I have to modify what they sent me because I do not have an engine driven fuel pump (mounted front right on the engine). Any pictures would be appreciated. Thanks much :) ~nick > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions > From: "Clive Richards" > Date: Wed, September 27, 2006 3:21 am > To: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" > > Hi Nick Ray Lasniers 601 HD has a 0-200 > We have had no problem with oil cooling . Fitted > with original sump screen filter only no extra cooling we are however in the > UK so ambient may be lower than you have. We have had a Hot summer for us > this year and have flown in 85 f with no problem . > > We have had no problem with the weight & Balance the empty weight is 720 lbs > & arm 9.137 inches (232.075 mm) the battery is in extreem rear & we have a > wooden (Lodge) pop due to weight this puts the plane on the forward limit > with a 140 lb pilot & full 16 US gallon header tank, no luggage. Our > inspector pointed out that the Zenith W & B sheet gives the wrong arm for > the baggage compartment (they give the measurment to the front of the > shelf ) it should be around 69.5 inch > Ray built is own engine baffling by copying and > triming to fit the baffels on a super cub which was down for a engine > rebuild. > The engine mount was built from a drawing from Zenith for the 601XL as > firewall mountings and offsets are the same. > His engine has the old heavy generator & starter fitted with these > accessorys fitted the engine complete weighs about 250 lbs. He has the 16 > gallon header tank fitted so the 12 lbs Dry Fit battery is in the extreem > rear. You could probably shorten the mounting if you fit a light weight > starter & Alternator. The exhaust down pipes were from a C150 > The Port side mounted 7 ft Throttle Idle cut off and Carb Ice controls as > fitted to a C150 were from Aircraft Spruce > He made his own cowling by making a plug mold ( ie cover engine with > cling film cover this with expanding foam shape & lay up) > Clive Richards for Ray Lasnier G CBDG 30 Hrs > I will be changing my email address shortley due to the ammount of spam I > cannot stop. > I can find no way of deleating this or messages with pictures attached on > the server prior to downloading if I have to use dial up. > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:33 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 A Engine Questions > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick@aoaircrafters.com > > > > I have a Zodiac 601 HD with a Continental 0-200 A engine. The engine > > installation is about 25% complete. > > > > Two questions: > > > > --Do you have problems with oil cooling? If so, what provisions are > > made for oil cooling? > > > > --Do you have problems with aircraft weight and balance (i.e. the > > Continental 0-200 engine's weight as opposed to other possible models). > > If so what is generally done to correct the wieght and balance problem? > > > > Thanks guys, > > > > ~Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > This message has been scanned for viruses and > > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > > believed to be clean. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:34 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith-List: Changed out gear plates on HDS --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Hi guys, I finally moved the fuselage into the booth for painting, but first had to remove the gear box, strut and bungees on the main gear. There were only 85-hours on the plane, but I inspected the guides and strut cross tube. No wear or even missing paint. I did have one bungee that had been damaged, probably during the first excruciating assembly of the 32 bolts and nuts. It still took hours to reassemble each gear box with a custom socket welded to a short L-arm extension. I jigged and matched the plates, then cut off the strut half an inch from the plate, squared the end and slid the weldment tube with 1/4 inch plate into the strut. The strut was drilled first and the weldment tube match drilled to it. The gear is now 1/4 inch longer, held by a 1/4-inch AN4 and the main wheel alignment has a 6-tenths of a degree toe in. The socket and plate replacement is a very viable way to change out the plate thickness and eliminate the potential for gear plate failure. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.gif Thought you'd like to know, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:21 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" FWIW Trio and I agreed that the LCD was the best match for a low-wing plane with a bubble canopy flying day VFR. So that is what I bought. But I haven't flown it yet. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:27 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Icom IC-A200 I have an apparently working but old Icom IC-A2. This is a hand held VHF comm. only transceiver. I got it new in trade for an HF amateur transceiver, and have never really used it. I have the A/C charger, but no instruction manual. Right now, I can't even figure out which buttons to push to get the frequency I want. If anybody wants this --let me know. Paul XL fuselage At 05:56 AM 9/27/2006, you wrote: >Anybody out there got a used or non-working ICOM IC A-200 >Transceiver for sale. Somehow my fine tuning knob got broken >off. And you wouldn't believe what they want to fix it. Contact me >at lrm@skyhawg.com. > > >Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:15 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner Hey guys, there's an easier way than having to work up a nosepiece to fit your job. Several years ago somebody on this list came up with an easy way: As I recall, it went like this: 1: Using the appropriate size bit, drill a hole lengthwise into a chunk of bolt or round bar. 2: Cut the bolt or bar to an appropriate length, on a slant that wil l give you room for the riveter. Cup the slanted end as with the nosep iece. 3: Slip the mandrel through your "new nosepiece", and into the riveter, putting a slight bend in the mandrel. You then get a pull pe rpendicular to the work, with your riveter on a slant. I had several rivets that I needed to do this, and it worked.=0A=0APaul Rodrig uez=0A601XL/Corvair=0AStill on the canopy=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: Tommy Walker =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:00 AM=0A Subject: Re : Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner=0A=0A=0A -- > Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" >=0A =0A I just felt like drawing something. See the attached photo (30KB).=0A =0A Dino Bortolin=0A La Salle, Ontario=0A XL/Corvair =0A =0A=0A Very neat Dino. I wish I had the equipmen t to turn that drawing into a steel nose piece. My file and hand dril l made one, but not anything that looked as good as your drawing. =0A=0A Tommy Walker in Alabama=0A Do Not Archive=0A=0A ======================= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" 601 XL Aileron threaded steel rod at bellcrank, 6-W-10. Cannot locate finished length on drawing, for 5/16" steel rod. Only shown is L=230, which is stock size. Anybody? Thanks, Mike do not archive -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300 Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64280#64280 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:10 AM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" No apology required. I will be sticking with the older pre-2005 tail kit. The prognosis is not too bad. The job can be done. Cant say enough about the help that the Zenith gang has provided, both at the factory and at the Canadian distributorship. If you ever have a question, Mark and Dave at Can-Zac are the most helpful people you could run into. Thanks to all you guys on the list as well. Taking time to answer questions from a newbie like myself is truly appreciated. I will try not to pester you guys to death!!!! Thanks again Ron Debert, Nova Scotia, Canada 601 XL, #6520 DO NOT ARCHIVE >My apologies. If you're satisfied, that's all that counts. >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa >>Bill: >>I posed this question to BOTH Zenith Aircraft and the fellas at >>Can-ZacAviation (the Canadian distributors) BEFORE I posted to this list. >>So I wasnt farting around Bill. Both places I might add were freindly and >>knowledgeable but did not have the information at hand that I needed. I >>knew that a HDS builder with XL experience could provide the answer. >>Having the opportunity to purchase a HDS tail kit at an excellent price, I >>wanted to be absolutely, positively sure that the HDS tail kit would fit >>the current 601 XL. >> >>I did get a few replies as well stating that all 601 versions had the same >>tail kit. This information is supported by the website and ZAC literature >>which states this. Unfortunately, I have found that this is definately not >>the case with the XL version from 2005 on. >> >>I disagree with this question being "beyond the realm of this list". You >>should give the fellas on this list more credit than that. As you can see >>in the paragraph below, my question was answered quite adequately by a 601 >>XL builder by the name of Christoph Steiner. >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to one piece >>( >>6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was widened to fit the >>straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as consequence the stabilizer >>attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved accordingly. Material thickness of the >>front >>and rear spar of the stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032" >>respectively t=.040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More >>changes in >>the elevator (trim tab) etc. >> >>Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new fuselage. >>Christoph Steiner, 601XL >>--------------------------------------------------------- >>Thank-you Chris for the thorough answer to my question. Much appreciated. >>Knowing that both the front and rear spar thicknesses have been increased >>does not make the HDS stabilator an option on a new 601 XL. >>As a new member of this list, and a new builder, I would like to be able >>to draw on the extensive experience of the Zenith Group. >>I would like to think that no question is too stupid to ask!! >> >> >> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >>> >>>This is not something to guess about. Quit farting around and contact >>>Zenith. Sorry, there are some things that are out of the realm of the >>>list. Even if your grandkids are ineligible for a medical by the time you >>>get a response. >>>Bill Naumuk >>>HDS Fuselage >>>Townville, Pa >> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde" >>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >>>> >>>>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already >>>>fabricated 601HDS stabilizer to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach >>>>fittings would have to be wider. >>>> >>>>Is this possible? >>>>RON >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:46 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Need a dimension please... Mike, This is one of those places where you have to determine the length yourself. (And this won't be the last one) You need to thread the rod into one of the ball end joints and bolt it to the bellcrank. Bolt the other ball joint to the aileron control horn. Place the bellcrank and aileron in their centered position. Hold the rod along side the aileron ball end and mark the rod where it needs to be cut off. I like to plan for the rod end to be about half way between the ball joint inspection hole and the bottom of the barrel. That way, you still have some room for adjustment. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:03 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 engine alternatives DVD Of interest to anyone researching alternative engine choices to the Rotax 912 ! (A targeted advertisement) HomebuiltHelp has just released a new DVD that compiles interviews/demonstrations from 7 engine vendors that compete with the 912 class of engine (Stratus Subaru, Jabiru, Rotec radial, AeroVee, Wynne Corvair, Raven Redrive, and Great Plains VW). This is a great one stop video catalog with footage contributed by these vendors to HomebuiltHELP for the purpose of educating the homebuilder on the most popular engine alternatives in the 80-120 hp range. Complete details can be found at http://homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm Thanks! Jon ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:01 AM PST US From: Mike Fothergill Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill Hi; I have the LCD Display. Seems to be OK in sun. Mike UHS Spinners CH-601HDS 1000hrs+ John Livsey wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Livsey > > Hi list, > > I see that a few Zodiacs builders have fitted the EZ-Pilot autopilot and > was wondering if anyone has comments regarding which type of display > they bought, the LCD or PLED ???. > > This is the comment from the Trio site on the subject. > * > **Owners of aircraft with large clear canopies will find a LCD (Liquid > Crystal Display) is somewhat more readable in high ambient light while > the PLED (Vacuum Fluorescent Display) shown above stands out when the > instrument panel is shaded from the sun. * > > > As I am thinking of going down this path any suggestions would be > appreciated. > > John Livsey > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:56 PM PST US From: "Frank Probst" Subject: Zenith-List: test --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Probst" test ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:00 PM PST US From: "William Wilkinson" Subject: Zenith-List: Introduction of new member - South Africa --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson" I have been registered on this list for a few months and have learned a lot. I received my 601XL plans a year ago and studied it in detail. Also watched the DVD by Homebuilt.com. I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in South Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily all the 6061T6 sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor. There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the flat bar for the main spars available but without the quality marking every few inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings) I am working for a petrochemical factory in Secunda, South Africa. On site is a metallurgical laboratory that is willing to do a physical tensile strenght on a sample and confirm the chemical property of the material.(E.g. Silicon content) Otherwise I will have to import the angles and flatbar at an enormous price. However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take chances with inferior materials. Regards William Wilkinson Secunda, South Africa > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:22 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner Isn't that a description of what Dino so nicely drew, or am I missing something? Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: paulrod36@msn.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner Hey guys, there's an easier way than having to work up a nosepiece to fit your job. Several years ago somebody on this list came up with an easy way: As I recall, it went like this: 1: Using the appropriate size bit, drill a hole lengthwise into a chunk of bolt or round bar. 2: Cut the bolt or bar to an appropriate length, on a slant that will give you room for the riveter. Cup the slanted end as with the nosepiece. 3: Slip the mandrel through your "new nosepiece", and into the riveter, putting a slight bend in the mandrel. You then get a pull perpendicular to the work, with your riveter on a slant. I had several rivets that I needed to do this, and it worked. Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair Still on the canopy ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Walker To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveting oneself into a corner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dbortol" I just felt like drawing something. See the attached photo (30KB). Dino Bortolin La Salle, Ontario XL/Corvair Very neat Dino. I wish I had the equipment to turn that drawing into a steel nose piece. My file and hand drill made one, but not anything that looked as good as your drawing. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenit=========== ========--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution============ == ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:06 PM PST US From: "Frank Probst" Subject: Zenith-List: aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Probst" I bought some aeroquip 303 hose today for my 601 912 install to do the oil and fuel lines. It does not compress at all so hose clamps will not hold it properly. Do I need to put fittings onto the hose ends? How will fittings attach to the barbs on my bing carbs and to the engine? Do I need to buy lighter duty hose that will compress? I just hate to use the cheap heater hose that zac supplies for the oil hose. I hope that I didn't just waste over a hundres bucks on the 303 hose. Thanks in advance for the advice Frank Probst ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:08 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Ron- I agree with your recommendation of Mark. His response time is nearly instantaneous. Other than having seen him on the HBH DVDs, I've had no correspondence with Dave, but it's obvious they're a team. Check out their DVDs-you won't be sorry. I also encourage you to keep up your thorough research. Many times it takes weeks of posting to come up with the information you're looking for, and it might come from a direction totally different from what you expected to begin with. You have to realize that I only saw an early portion of the string when I offered my comments. There may have been additions, but it's only human nature to respond to the first stimulus. The list is a powerful tool, but you have to be patient in learning how to use it. You'll eventually find out that I give listers a lot more credit than you think I do now. Good building! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde" Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" > > No apology required. > I will be sticking with the older pre-2005 tail kit. The prognosis is not > too bad. The job can be done. > > Cant say enough about the help that the Zenith gang has provided, both at > the factory and at the Canadian distributorship. If you ever have a > question, Mark and Dave at Can-Zac are the most helpful people you could > run into. > > Thanks to all you guys on the list as well. Taking time to answer > questions from a newbie like myself is truly appreciated. > I will try not to pester you guys to death!!!! > Thanks again > > Ron > Debert, Nova Scotia, Canada > 601 XL, #6520 > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >>My apologies. If you're satisfied, that's all that counts. >>Bill Naumuk >>HDS Fuselage >>Townville, Pa >>>Bill: >>>I posed this question to BOTH Zenith Aircraft and the fellas at >>>Can-ZacAviation (the Canadian distributors) BEFORE I posted to this list. >>>So I wasnt farting around Bill. Both places I might add were freindly and >>>knowledgeable but did not have the information at hand that I needed. I >>>knew that a HDS builder with XL experience could provide the answer. >>>Having the opportunity to purchase a HDS tail kit at an excellent price, >>>I wanted to be absolutely, positively sure that the HDS tail kit would >>>fit the current 601 XL. >>> >>>I did get a few replies as well stating that all 601 versions had the >>>same tail kit. This information is supported by the website and ZAC >>>literature which states this. Unfortunately, I have found that this is >>>definately not the case with the XL version from 2005 on. >>> >>>I disagree with this question being "beyond the realm of this list". You >>>should give the fellas on this list more credit than that. As you can see >>>in the paragraph below, my question was answered quite adequately by a >>>601 XL builder by the name of Christoph Steiner. >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>In updates 2005a fuselage bottom skin ( 6-B-1-4 ) was changed to one >>>piece ( >>>6-B-1-3 was deleted), Front H.T. Frame ( 6-B-1-1) was widened to fit the >>>straight side lines from 214mm to 232mm and as consequence the stabilizer >>>attachments ( 6-T-2 ) were moved accordingly. Material thickness of the >>>front >>>and rear spar of the stabilizer was increased from t=.025" to t=.032" >>>respectively t=.040" , just to mention the most obvious changes. More >>>changes in >>>the elevator (trim tab) etc. >>> >>>Conclusion: The "old" stabilizer won't fit right away on the new >>>fuselage. >>>Christoph Steiner, 601XL >>>--------------------------------------------------------- >>>Thank-you Chris for the thorough answer to my question. Much appreciated. >>>Knowing that both the front and rear spar thicknesses have been increased >>>does not make the HDS stabilator an option on a new 601 XL. >>>As a new member of this list, and a new builder, I would like to be able >>>to draw on the extensive experience of the Zenith Group. >>>I would like to think that no question is too stupid to ask!! >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" >>>> >>>>This is not something to guess about. Quit farting around and contact >>>>Zenith. Sorry, there are some things that are out of the realm of the >>>>list. Even if your grandkids are ineligible for a medical by the time >>>>you get a response. >>>>Bill Naumuk >>>>HDS Fuselage >>>>Townville, Pa >>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lalonde" >>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone any idea about how hard it would be to retrofit an already >>>>>fabricated 601HDS stabilizer to a 601XL fuselage. Apparently the attach >>>>>fittings would have to be wider. >>>>> >>>>>Is this possible? >>>>>RON >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:31 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Zenith-List: test for email address --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" Test ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:41 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Changed out gear plates on HDS > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > Hi guys, > I finally moved the fuselage into the booth for painting, but first > had to remove the gear box, strut and bungees on the main gear. > There were only 85-hours on the plane, but I inspected the guides > and strut cross tube. No wear or even missing paint. I did have one > bungee that had been damaged, probably during the first excruciating > assembly of the 32 bolts and nuts. It still took hours to reassemble > each gear box with a custom socket welded to a short L-arm extension. > I jigged and matched the plates, then cut off the strut half an inch > from the > plate, squared the end and slid the weldment tube with 1/4 inch plate into > the strut. The strut was drilled first and the weldment tube match drilled > to it. The gear is now 1/4 inch longer, held by a 1/4-inch AN4 and the > main wheel alignment has a 6-tenths of a degree toe in. The socket and > plate replacement is a very viable way to change out the plate thickness > and eliminate the potential for gear plate failure. > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.gif > > Thought you'd like to know, > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:12 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage support I said that I'd keep you informed about ZACs response to my question. They (I'm assuming that it was Nick) got back to me today. After reviewing my photos, he concluded that the fuselage was essentially finished, so I can move it just about any way I need to. That's a lot clearer response than I expected, so I am now a little more appreciative of ZACs help.(FWIW, I couldn't help noticeing that no one from the Forum responded to my question.) Jay in Dallas, working on XL canopy ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:02 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: aeroquip303 hose. I think I bought the wrong stuff!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Frank, You've bought a hose that needs to use special screw-on fittings. The hose will be a superior product than most others if you go ahead and buy the fittings for it. They're not inexpensive, but durable and tough to a fault. I used similar for my fuel and brake lines where there is motion. Glad I did! The fittings are #491 and guidance on fitting them is in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog if you can't find it elsewhere. For the Bings, I used hose clamps and barbs to secure the hose. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Frank Probst wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Probst" > > I bought some aeroquip 303 hose today for my 601 912 install to do the > oil and fuel lines. It does not compress at all so hose clamps will > not hold it properly. > > Do I need to put fittings onto the hose ends? How will fittings > attach to the barbs on my bing carbs and to the engine? Do I need to > buy lighter duty hose that will compress? I just hate to use the > cheap heater hose that zac supplies for the oil hose. I hope that I > didn't just waste over a hundres bucks on the 303 hose. > > Thanks in advance for the advice > > Frank Probst > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:37 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Introduction of new member - South Africa --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland William, The parts you cannot get economically probably should be ordered from Zenith. No testing required and some of the bending or special work may already be done. You're quite correct about not just taking the word of a supplier that materials are of some specific alloy. Only if they have a good track record with the aviation community, you should be inclined to trust them. I'd suggest you call Aircraft Spruce and check with them for air freight of the materials you need. Peachtree City, Georgia Phone 1-877-477-7823 Larry McFarland do not archive William Wilkinson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson" > > > I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in > South Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily all > the 6061T6 sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor. > > There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the > flat bar for the main spars available but without the quality marking > every few inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings) > > However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take > chances with inferior materials. > > Regards > > William Wilkinson > Secunda, South Africa > > >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:15 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Introduction of new member - South Africa --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi William, First let me say I am no expert on this subject. Then let me say it seems that 6061T6 should be pretty much the same no matter who made it or in what country it was made. This is a very common alloy for aluminum which is used for many things besides aircraft designed by C. Heintz. Perhaps you could contact the manufacturer in South Africa and ask about the quality of this material and how it compares to USA made 6061T6. I think the manufacturer should be able to convince you that his aluminum alloy is just as good as the more expensive imported kind. Paul XL fuselage At 01:38 PM 9/27/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson" > >I have been registered on this list for a few months and have learned a lot. > >I received my 601XL plans a year ago and studied it in detail. Also >watched the DVD by Homebuilt.com. > >I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in >South Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily >all the 6061T6 sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor. > >There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the >flat bar for the main spars available but without the quality >marking every few inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings) > >I am working for a petrochemical factory in Secunda, South >Africa. On site is a metallurgical laboratory that is willing to >do a physical tensile strenght on a sample and confirm the chemical >property of the material.(E.g. Silicon content) Otherwise I will >have to import the angles and flatbar at an enormous price. > >However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take >chances with inferior materials. > >Regards > >William Wilkinson >Secunda, South Africa > > >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:33 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: BAD ALUM on Market. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Actually while were on this note I wish to make all scratch builders that it has been brought to our attention that 6061-T6 alum manufactured in China with a sheet marking starting with H (I can 't remember the name at this moment but you will recognize it as a non American name) is not of the same standard. We have done several tests with both Alcan and the imported alum with the same 6061-T6 stamp and in each case the import had prevailing cracks and on thicker pieces actually broke in the bend while the Alcan product formed just fine. I don't have any more info on this but be aware of what your buying. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson" I have been registered on this list for a few months and have learned a lot. I received my 601XL plans a year ago and studied it in detail. Also watched the DVD by Homebuilt.com. I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in South Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily all the 6061T6 sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor. There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the flat bar for the main spars available but without the quality marking every few inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings) I am working for a petrochemical factory in Secunda, South Africa. On site is a metallurgical laboratory that is willing to do a physical tensile strenght on a sample and confirm the chemical property of the material.(E.g. Silicon content) Otherwise I will have to import the angles and flatbar at an enormous price. However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take chances with inferior materials. Regards William Wilkinson Secunda, South Africa -- 9/27/2006 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:42 PM PST US From: Rodney Mills Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills Listers, I built my stabilizer in 2004. Received the remainder of the kit in November 2005. Zenith informed me that the front mount on my stabilizer must be widened to fit the fuselage in the current kit. I believe the new width was 14mm wider but am not looking at the plans. I spoke to Roger about this as it would require removing the skin and drilling new holes in the spar very close to the current holes. I believe that will cause problems with edge distance. I am not to the point of making a decision yet but am looking at making a new fuse bulkhead to correctly fit my stab as has been done by at least one other builder. So yes, the mounting is wider on the newer version XL than before. I do not know about the 601HDS. Rodney Mills Northport, AL 601XL / Corvair Working on wings ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:30 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fitting 601HDS Stabilizer to 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lalonde" Hi Rodney Here are two replies reference the fix for this problem that I received from Tom L., one of the builders on the list. By the time I get far enough along in my project this problem will probably have a illustrated and documented fix in place. The guys at the Zenith factory, and the Can-Zac fellas are right on the ball with all this stuff....I am impressed. This Tom L. has solved this problem too. It does not appear to be much of a problem to fix. (But dont forget, I am a Newbie!! LOL) ---- Shim's ---.063 and .125 (1/8") "cut to fit" like the top of 6B1-9 ---the shims go on the inside of 6B1-9 with the .125 lappin over the upper longerons. Will transfer the load and whould work just fine---anywaythats what I did and the DAR approved it. Tnx, Tom --------- Yes, the stablizer attach fittings seem to fit nice and close in the shimmed area top of 6B1-9--the same three rivits at top of 6B1-9 should go through the .125 shim. the .063 served as a fill spacer -- the .063 is about the same thickness as the skin .025 and the upper longeron .040 and by the time you spray the ship and other two items with eching primer or zinc, it takes up the space for a good spacer---I also run the fix by Roger at ZAC. Seem to be just as good as its ever going to get. Good luck. You can type at me any time on anything else. Tom L. --------------------------------------- Hope this helps you Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills > >Listers, > I built my stabilizer in 2004. Received the remainder of the kit in >November 2005. Zenith informed me that the front mount on my stabilizer >must be widened to fit the fuselage in the current kit. I believe the new >width was 14mm wider but am not looking at the plans. I spoke to Roger >about this as it would require removing the skin and drilling new holes in >the spar very close to the current holes. I believe that will cause >problems with edge distance. I am not to the point of making a decision yet >but am looking at making a new fuse bulkhead to correctly fit my stab as >has been done by at least one other builder. So yes, the mounting is wider >on the newer version XL than before. I do not know about the 601HDS. > >Rodney Mills >Northport, AL >601XL / Corvair >Working on wings >