---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/30/06: 53 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - Re: GSC propeller and CH701 (Gary Gower) 2. 04:11 AM - Re: Rough cut (Gordon) 3. 06:02 AM - Re: Off Topic - Aircraft Leaseback (Chris In Madison) 4. 06:15 AM - () 5. 06:53 AM - Transporting aluminum sheet? (Matt Stecher) 6. 07:22 AM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Robert Schoenberger) 7. 07:22 AM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Graham Kirby) 8. 07:42 AM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Gary Boothe) 9. 08:26 AM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Bill Naumuk) 10. 08:53 AM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Monty Graves) 11. 09:32 AM - Polishing technique found? (Bill Naumuk) 12. 09:41 AM - Rough Cut (The Minearts) 13. 11:05 AM - Photos of the 1st "Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show" (jim@pellien.com) 14. 12:30 PM - when to rivet the fuselage? (ken smith) 15. 12:57 PM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Wade Jones) 16. 01:01 PM - dual sticks in 601XL (Wade Jones) 17. 01:02 PM - Re: Rough cut (Bryan Martin) 18. 01:10 PM - Re: when to rivet the fuselage? (Bryan Martin) 19. 01:16 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Bryan Martin) 20. 01:47 PM - Re: Photos of the 1st "Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show" (Paul Mulwitz) 21. 01:57 PM - Inspiration (Zodie Rocket) 22. 02:04 PM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Clyde Barcus) 23. 02:08 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Edward Moody II) 24. 02:11 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Sigmo@aol.com) 25. 02:20 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Jaybannist@cs.com) 26. 02:20 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne) 27. 02:23 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne) 28. 02:54 PM - CH701 inboard flaperon root rib question (John Marzulli) 29. 02:59 PM - SERFI (Rodney Mills) 30. 03:13 PM - Re: Inspiration (TxDave) 31. 03:40 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Paul Mulwitz) 32. 03:56 PM - Re: Re: Off Topic - Aircraft Leaseback (Mike) 33. 04:16 PM - Re: Inspiration (Craig Payne) 34. 04:25 PM - Rough Cut-Polishing progress real time (Bill Naumuk) 35. 04:26 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Tim Juhl) 36. 04:33 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Zodie Rocket) 37. 04:36 PM - Re: Inspiration (Zodie Rocket) 38. 04:48 PM - RE : Rough Cut-Polishing progress real time (Carlos Sa) 39. 05:31 PM - Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Craig Payne) 40. 05:44 PM - Re: Changed out gear plates on HDS (Jim Hoak) 41. 06:05 PM - Re: BAD ALUM on Market. (Christian Tremblay) 42. 06:18 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Edward Moody II) 43. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Inspiration (Wade Jones) 44. 07:33 PM - Re: N329F Update (Jim Fosse) 45. 07:43 PM - Inspection plates (Dave Ruddiman) 46. 08:08 PM - PIA depicted (Bill Naumuk) 47. 09:11 PM - Re: Inspection plates (Craig Payne) 48. 09:21 PM - Re: Inspection plates (Dave Ruddiman) 49. 09:32 PM - Re: Inspection plates (Craig Payne) 50. 09:34 PM - Re: Inspection plates (Dave Ruddiman) 51. 09:51 PM - Re: Inspection plates (Paul Mulwitz) 52. 09:52 PM - Re: Changed out gear plates on HDS (Gary Boothe) 53. 10:10 PM - Re: Inspection plates (Dave Ruddiman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:06 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: GSC propeller and CH701 Hello Jari and group, Here in our Club, in the hangar next door, there is a Falcon XP (canard) that originally came with a 503 (Rotax 2 cycle) and a GSC 3 blade, Later the engine was changed for a 582 for better performance in our altitude, with the same GSC propeller. The GSC flew the airplane for several years... The pilots flys a lot, even during the week days. The propeller was a pusher and twice a year was repaired for the damage of little stones and dirt abrasion, barnished and balanced. Club self imposed rule for wooden props). worked OK until the engine was replaced by the actual 618 that came with an Ivo (I think). The prop is now in the wall, but stil in good shape, (No serious damage during its life) Could work if needed. I like wooden propellers, in my ultralights I carved my own. But they need some love and care (normal damage repair, barnish, balance, cleaning and waxing) as needed. Same as the aircraft... Our 701 has the composite propeller from the kit, also gets cleaned and inspected every flying day. No repairs needed yet, Jari Kaija wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > sorry for the bad report. This didn't sound good at all! Yes, this is a brand new one. If this is a really true problem with this propeller, I will let it stay on the wall as an ornament. Any other owners? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:11 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rough cut I have a small vintage Airstream trailer that I restored a few years ago. I polished the entire trailer to a mirror finish with Nuvite C and S. I probably should have used the G6 in some of the rough areas to save time and arms, but I was able to cut through some very pitted and corroded aluminum with the C. I learned to use it very sparingly as the instructions state and work small areas of about 2' x 2'. The Nuvite gets thicker as you work it and seems to do most of the cutting at the end of it's life as it gets drier. I continue working the area until the nuvite almost disappears and you can start to see shinny aluminum. There is a lot of information about polishing aluminum on any number of Vintage Airstream sites like this one: http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=3 Gordon CH701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 8:15 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rough cut All- Having a heck of a time making the first polish cut through the crud on my skins. I have G6, C, and S Nuvite, but they don't cut it (Pun intended). I'm not worried about cleaning things up afterwards, but can't find a rough enough grit for the first pass. I tried automotive polishing compound (Dupont) and it's about the same as Nuvite C. Carlos, I know you do everything with Mother's- is it "Rough enough" for a first pass? I'm going to try Dupont automotive rubbing compound tomorrow if no one has a better suggestion. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Off Topic - Aircraft Leaseback From: "Chris In Madison" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" Hi Mike, Are you an AOPA member? Lots of leaseback info on first glance. I'm not familiar with the process, so can't comment. However a quick search of "leaseback" returned 88 results. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64797#64797 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:10 AM PST US ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:38 AM PST US From: "Matt Stecher" Subject: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I don't have to worry about shipping (which was $150 from Yarde). I am thinking that I will just roll them up together, wrap them in a soft blanket and place straps around it to hold it. Will this work? How tight a radius can the 40 be wrapped to without taking a set? I am making a long clamp out of 2 - 5'x2"x1/2" boards that I sandwich around the short edge of the sheet stack with wing nuts and bolts (wrapped to protect the sheets). The overhanging ends of which can help start the rolling process and perhaps use as a handle to carry the roll. I don't have a trailer and can hopefully get them all home safe in the back of our Durango. Thanks, Matt in Katy, TX 601XL/Corvair - Starting the Tail Group ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:16 AM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Schoenberger This isn't a direct answer to your immediate problem. But wear safety glasses when rolling and unrolling long sheets, particularly when you unroll them. Best done with two persons, one on each side of the roll, both wearing safety glasses natch. There's a lot of spring like force in a tightly rolled piece of aluminum. FWIW Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive. Matt Stecher wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" > > I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in > Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. > > I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident > Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I don't > have to worry about shipping (which was $150 from Yarde). > > I am thinking that I will just roll them up together, wrap them in a soft > blanket and place straps around it to hold it. > > Will this work? > How tight a radius can the 40 be wrapped to without taking a set? > > I am making a long clamp out of 2 - 5'x2"x1/2" boards that I sandwich around > the short edge of the sheet stack with wing nuts and bolts (wrapped to > protect the sheets). The overhanging ends of which can help start the > rolling process and perhaps use as a handle to carry the roll. > > I don't have a trailer and can hopefully get them all home safe in the back > of our Durango. > > Thanks, > Matt in Katy, TX > 601XL/Corvair - Starting the Tail Group > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:29 AM PST US From: "Graham Kirby" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" Matt, Don't know how tightly you can roll the 040 but if I was you I'd roll it as loosely as possible to fit in the back of the car. You don't gain anything from rolling it tightly and you risk it bending. I would suggest putting a strip of masking tape over each on the short edges that are inside the roll and using a layer of newspaper between each sheet. I hate it when rolled metal gets scratched! You might also consider rolling the 016 and 025 together and the 032 and 040 separately. When your done you should be able to put the rolls inside one another. A single coiled spring of that much aluminum can be a pretty vicious beastie. Good Luck, Graham Kirby 601HD --------- I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I don't have to worry about shipping (which was $150 from Yarde). I am thinking that I will just roll them up together, wrap them in a soft blanket and place straps around it to hold it. Will this work? How tight a radius can the 40 be wrapped to without taking a set? Matt in Katy, TX ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:51 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" Matt, I don't know about your supplier, but I have dealt with two different suppliers and both are happy to do the rolling for me. They usually protect the inside 4' edge with cardboard and lay a sheet of paper over the metal so that it doesn't roll metal to metal. If you are only buying 4' of .40 I doubt that you can roll it. It is possible to roll 8', as Graham said, though it will be a loose roll. The others would probably fit inside. Ditto to what the others said, get help when un-rolling. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, wings done, working on c-section -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Stecher Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 6:52 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I don't have to worry about shipping (which was $150 from Yarde). I am thinking that I will just roll them up together, wrap them in a soft blanket and place straps around it to hold it. Will this work? How tight a radius can the 40 be wrapped to without taking a set? I am making a long clamp out of 2 - 5'x2"x1/2" boards that I sandwich around the short edge of the sheet stack with wing nuts and bolts (wrapped to protect the sheets). The overhanging ends of which can help start the rolling process and perhaps use as a handle to carry the roll. I don't have a trailer and can hopefully get them all home safe in the back of our Durango. Thanks, Matt in Katy, TX 601XL/Corvair - Starting the Tail Group ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:14 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Matt- I have the scars to prove that you have to be careful when you unroll a sheet. Stupid me, I was wearing shorts when I did it. Just a brush from an edge to my shin. Didn't think anything more of it until I looked down and noticed I was bleeding like a stuck pig. Still looks like I was in a sword fight! I've worn glasses since I was 3 years old, so eye protection is a given. Needless to say, watch the rest of you. Don't roll anything larger than .025, period. Get the supplier to cut the sheet to what will fit in your Durango but still work with the plans. A radius large enough to keep from damaging a sheet of .040 will never fit in your vehicle anyway. I could care less if anyone flames me, I consider this good advice based on painful experience. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Stecher" Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:52 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" > > I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in > Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. > > I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident > Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I > don't > have to worry about shipping (which was $150 from Yarde). > > I am thinking that I will just roll them up together, wrap them in a soft > blanket and place straps around it to hold it. > > Will this work? > How tight a radius can the 40 be wrapped to without taking a set? > > I am making a long clamp out of 2 - 5'x2"x1/2" boards that I sandwich > around > the short edge of the sheet stack with wing nuts and bolts (wrapped to > protect the sheets). The overhanging ends of which can help start the > rolling process and perhaps use as a handle to carry the roll. > > I don't have a trailer and can hopefully get them all home safe in the > back > of our Durango. > > Thanks, > Matt in Katy, TX > 601XL/Corvair - Starting the Tail Group > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:36 AM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves The .040 can be rolled to about 36-40 inch diameter, don't press your luck. My supply house would not roll .040. So I did it myself on their floor duck taped it all the way around, and then they would band it........ same with .016, They didn't want to take the responsibilty of damaging the heavier .040, and the thinner .016 A little smaller on the .032, And the .025 and .016 down to 24 inches...... Have them roll it, and band it for you. Then you can slide the tubes inside each other and get it home if you work it right. 2 sheets of .025 can be rolled together. 3 sheets of .016 can be banded together. Thats about all you can lift at one time anyway without help. Monty Graves At 08:52 AM 9/30/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" > >I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in >Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. > >I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident >Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I don't >have to worry about shipping (which was $150 from Yarde). > >I am thinking that I will just roll them up together, wrap them in a soft >blanket and place straps around it to hold it. > >Will this work? >How tight a radius can the 40 be wrapped to without taking a set? > >I am making a long clamp out of 2 - 5'x2"x1/2" boards that I sandwich around >the short edge of the sheet stack with wing nuts and bolts (wrapped to >protect the sheets). The overhanging ends of which can help start the >rolling process and perhaps use as a handle to carry the roll. > >I don't have a trailer and can hopefully get them all home safe in the back >of our Durango. > >Thanks, >Matt in Katy, TX >601XL/Corvair - Starting the Tail Group > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:38 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing technique found? All- This seems to work in my case, which is probably atypical- 1. Wet sand with 1200 Grit wet or dry. Someone advised 1000, then 1500, and I split the difference. For those who don't know, wet sanding is sticking a piece of wet or dry sandpaper in a sanding block (The all rubber 3M is my favorite), dipping the block in a bucket of water, and having at it. Messy, but quiet and environmentally friendly. 2. Use a rotary polisher with G6 to bring up a shine. Repeat step 1 as necessary. 3. When satisfied the grungy spots are gone, repeat using C or S and an orbital polisher. It's a bitch, but to my mind preferable to spending months painting. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:38 AM PST US From: "The Minearts" Subject: Zenith-List: Rough Cut I spoke with the rep for Nuvite at OSH, and he recommended starting with the F-9 grit to work out the mill finish, that the finer grades only fill the small scratches from the mill, rather than cutting them out. Interestingly, he said that the non-clad alloys need more work to get to the finished look, but then it is more durable than with clad. Steve Mineart zenvair 601xl do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:31 AM PST US From: jim@pellien.com Subject: Zenith-List: Photos of the 1st "Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show" You're invited to view photos taken by Kate Brennan of the 1st "Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show" at the Bryce Resort in Basye, VA on 16-17 Sept 2006. 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You're invited to view photos taken by Kate Brennan of the 1st "Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show" at the Bryce Resort in Basye, VA on 16-17 Sept 2006.

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________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:42 PM PST US From: ken smith Subject: Zenith-List: when to rivet the fuselage? --> Zenith-List message posted by: ken smith I have the fuselage of my 601xl to the point where I am just adding things like the gussets and similar smaller items. I have what looks like a million clecos hanging off the structure (actually about 600). I have not yet drilled the top skins yet. My question is can I un-cleco , debur and rivet the major structure at this point or do I continue to add the dual sticks, flap controlls etc before disassembly. Ken __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:17 PM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wade Jones" Hi Matt ,glad to see you are getting stared .I cant give you much more advice other than the good advice that you have already gotten from the site .I think you are wise picking it up yourself ,both in freight charges and damage received in shipment .When I checked Trident they did not even want to talk to me about .016 & .020 as they had too much damage in shipment to their facility .I am going to use them for the remainder of my .025 material .I bought my 1 1/2 x1/4 spar caps from them for $14.25 each .Keep us informed and I enjoyed your visit a couple of weeks ago . Wade ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Stecher" Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" > > I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in > Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. > > I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident > Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I > don't > have to worry about shipping (which was $150 from Yarde). > > I am thinking that I will just roll them up together, wrap them in a soft > blanket and place straps around it to hold it. > > Will this work? > How tight a radius can the 40 be wrapped to without taking a set? > > I am making a long clamp out of 2 - 5'x2"x1/2" boards that I sandwich > around > the short edge of the sheet stack with wing nuts and bolts (wrapped to > protect the sheets). The overhanging ends of which can help start the > rolling process and perhaps use as a handle to carry the roll. > > I don't have a trailer and can hopefully get them all home safe in the > back > of our Durango. > > Thanks, > Matt in Katy, TX > 601XL/Corvair - Starting the Tail Group > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:07 PM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL Hello group ,I have a question . Is it worth the effort to add dual control sticks to this design .What are your thoughts pro & con on this issue . Thanks Wade Jones ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:14 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rough cut I've found that putting a bit of the material on my finger and rubbing it into the stubborn spots and then going over it with the buffer seems to help. On Sep 30, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > Gordon- > I have no trouble getting a shine out of probably 95% of the > surface area, just little pitted areas smaller than a dime. These > areas seem impervious to G6. > As I said before, I only have a couple of skins in this > condition. When I first got my kit, I stood all the skins against a > basement wall in order I would be using them. The fuse side skins > were the ones against the wall. Even though my basement appeared > dry and I have a dehumidifier, the side skins still got some > corrosion. > I probably wouldn't have this trouble now if I would have > "Rotated my stock". > Bill > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:03 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: when to rivet the fuselage? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I would go ahead and rivet the lower fuselage together. Then you can leave the top skins clecoed until you get your control cables and wires installed. On Sep 30, 2006, at 3:28 PM, ken smith wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ken smith > > I have the fuselage of my 601xl to the point where I > am just adding things like the gussets and similar > smaller items. I have what looks like a million clecos > hanging off the structure (actually about 600). > I have not yet drilled the top skins yet. My question > is can I un-cleco , debur and rivet the major > structure at this point or do I continue to add the > dual sticks, flap controlls etc before disassembly. > > Ken -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:39 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL I wasn't worth the effort to me. It didn't take any time at all to get used to the center Y stick even though I had always flown aircraft with a control yoke before. The center stick also makes it easier to get in and out of the plane. I find it no trouble to change hands on the center stick to adjust radios and such. The dual sticks will be heavier and more complicated also. On Sep 30, 2006, at 4:00 PM, Wade Jones wrote: > Hello group ,I have a question . Is it worth the effort to add dual > control sticks to this design .What are your thoughts pro & con on > this issue . Thanks Wade Jones > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:22 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Photos of the 1st "Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show" Hi Jim, Very nice pictures. They make me want to travel the 3,000 miles to get to your place so I can try flying each one of the planes. Which ones do you actually have available for training? Paul XL fuselage A -- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:31 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Inspiration --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" The odd time builders get behind in the schedule they set out for themselves in building their dreams, could be other projects or maybe you just got stuck on something. Either way a small kick in the pants never hurts! I have just such a kick to offer all of you, I have just freshly uploaded a link in the stories section of www.ch601.org that will remind you why we are building these planes. Hopefully it will help some of you to get out into the garage or the hanger and discover the pleasure of building and what awaits you upon completion. Enjoy Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -- 9/29/2006 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:29 PM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" I just received .025 X 4' x 12' it came in a box 13 1/2 X 13 1/2 square, I did not measure the length but it is obviously more than 48 '' long. This is the second time I have received a shipment from aircraft Spruce with no damage. They roll it with paper between sheets of aluminum and it arrives in excellent condition. I don't know how tight you can roll .040. Clyde 601 XL Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade Jones" Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wade Jones" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Stecher" > To: "Zenith-List@Matronics.Com" > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:52 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Transporting aluminum sheet? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" >> >> >> I am picking up my first aluminum order from a local supplier here in >> Houston on Monday and am wondering how to load it without damaging it. >> >> I will be receiving (5 - 12'x4') 2-016, 1-025, 1-032 & 1-040. Trident >> Metals has the best rates (total $344) I have seen especially since I >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:55 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL I am using the dual stick option. I found it awkward in the demo plane to change hands to check my ability to reach across the panel with the inboard side hand. I'm sure it would not be a deal breaker either way. With dual sticks the center console area is freed up for the placement of fuel selector valve, switches, whatever. Ed Moody II ----- Original Message ----- From: Wade Jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL Hello group ,I have a question . Is it worth the effort to add dual control sticks to this design .What are your thoughts pro & con on this issue . Thanks Wade Jones ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:11 PM PST US From: Sigmo@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL I went with the dual sticks because I am used to that configuration and like to fly with it. I have flown both configurations and prefer the stick although there are some disadvantages. Some of the drawbacks to the dual sticks on this aircraft are: The loss of foot space in front of the pilot and passenger. It is harder to enter and exit the aircraft. The wiring and placement of some items require much more thought. The seats must be configured for the sticks. The stick interferes with the passenger seating comfort. It is harder to carry cargo in the passenger seat without interfering with the stick. Some of the advantages of the dual stick are: The console area can be configured for instruments and other items. The right hand is free to set radios and other instruments. The right hand is free to write. The aircraft can be flown with the left hand when you wish. The stick can be configured with switches that can be operated with either hand. I personally find it easier to fly with the stick than the center control. The legs can also be used when necessary. My two cents worth..... Mike Sigman N7092N 601XL ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:20 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL Wade, I actually held off starting the Zodiac until they offered dual sticks. I am not a mancho "left hand on throttle, right hand on stick" type. I learned in your everyday spam can, with my right hand on the throttle and left on the yoke. Beyond that, my other problem with the center stick is that I am right handed. I could not envision grabbing the stick with my left hand in order to write something down (with my right hand) and I can't write with my left hand. That's my 2 cent's worth, Jay in Dallas, working on XL canopy ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:20 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL Well, I'm doing it for a few reasons: - it mimics the planes I have trained in (172, Katana, Evector, 601XL): left hand on the stick, right on center throttle. - all the 601xls that I have seen that have been purchased for flight instruction have dual sticks. So if you need time in an XL before flying yours you will probably need to use dual sticks - I am right-handed and wanted that hand free for things that require manual dexterity: writing, fiddling with the GPS, radio, transponder, microwave over, etc. Certainly the center Y stick is a cleaner design. Others will say that it is not a big deal to grab the Y stick with your left hand to temporarily free your right for other tasks. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:34 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL One way to address some of these problems is to make the upper portion of the passenger-side stick removable. -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sigmo@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL I went with the dual sticks because I am used to that configuration and like to fly with it. I have flown both configurations and prefer the stick although there are some disadvantages. Some of the drawbacks to the dual sticks on this aircraft are: The loss of foot space in front of the pilot and passenger. It is harder to enter and exit the aircraft. The wiring and placement of some items require much more thought. The seats must be configured for the sticks. The stick interferes with the passenger seating comfort. It is harder to carry cargo in the passenger seat without interfering with the stick. Some of the advantages of the dual stick are: The console area can be configured for instruments and other items. The right hand is free to set radios and other instruments. The right hand is free to write. The aircraft can be flown with the left hand when you wish. The stick can be configured with switches that can be operated with either hand. I personally find it easier to fly with the stick than the center control. The legs can also be used when necessary. My two cents worth..... Mike Sigman N7092N 601XL ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:14 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 inboard flaperon root rib question What steps did other people do for the root rib? The directions in the manual are a little lacking... Is it better to trim the spar now and drill the angle into place, or is it better to wait? Should I go ahead and drill the rib into place now, or should I wait until the fuselage is done and I mate the part to the wing and body? Thanks! -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:18 PM PST US From: Rodney Mills Subject: Zenith-List: SERFI Listers, Is anyone planning to attend SERFI next week? Rodney Mills 601XL ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspiration From: "TxDave" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" Thanks for the inspiration, Mark. I was feeling kind of bummed out due to ruining one of my left wing spar caps right before I was about to start riveting. Great story. Dave Clay do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64867#64867 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:54 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL I was surprised to hear so many listers say they didn't like the center stick because they couldn't write left handed. I haven't flown my XL yet, but it seems to me there are two obvious answers to this particular problem. First, you could configure the plane to fly from the right seat. OK, I realize this is sacrilege, but it would allow the left hand on stick, right hand on throttle. The more obvious answer is that when the plane is properly trimmed up you should be able to let go of the controls long enough to adjust the radios or write something down. Is there some reason this doesn't work? Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 01:00 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote: >Hello group ,I have a question . Is it worth the effort to add dual >control sticks to this design .What are your thoughts pro & con on >this issue . Thanks Wade Jones --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:03 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Off Topic - Aircraft Leaseback Thanks Chris, didn't think of that. I'll try to dig up some info that way. I was also looking for some "been there, done that" advice since sometimes what the experts say and what really happens can be different. Mike Chris In Madison wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" Hi Mike, Are you an AOPA member? Lots of leaseback info on first glance. I'm not familiar with the process, so can't comment. However a quick search of "leaseback" returned 88 results. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64797#64797 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:34 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspiration --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" GCXA was at Quality Sport Planes after this trip. During the Jabiru FWF seminar Michael Heinz was taking folks up. I believe this is 601XL #1 - the first ever built. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Rough Cut-Polishing progress real time Steve- (Everyone who's polished feel free to jump in!!) The coarsest grit available from ACS is G6. You're not the first one to recommend an F grade, and I'm going to make a serious effort to find some. Tried Mother's- about the same as G6. Dupont Polishing Compound is about the same as Nuvite grade C. Tried 1200 grit wet or dry. Worked fine for some spots, had to go down as low as 220 to get rid of others on the fuse sides, which are the bad pieces. Messy as hell, and I figure it's easier to buy a 2x10 piece of sheet and make new ones rather than clean the originals up. I put the originals aside for use as drill patterns and will try F grit if I can find some. Bottom fuse skin isn't in too bad a shape. Able to clean everything up (Sloooow process). Have better luck using a chunk of old towel to rub the paste to a nice, consistant, black yuck before taking one of the polishers to it. Speaking of polishers, how do I know when to give up on a bonnet? They turn black in seconds, and Ma took one look at one and said it wasn't to be seen in the same county as her washing machine. Can't blame her. Here's a visual for you- Ma with one of the bonnets in her hand chasing a runaway washing machine down the road yelling "You wimp- get back here"! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: The Minearts To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 12:41 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rough Cut I spoke with the rep for Nuvite at OSH, and he recommended starting with the F-9 grit to work out the mill finish, that the finer grades only fill the small scratches from the mill, rather than cutting them out. Interestingly, he said that the non-clad alloys need more work to get to the finished look, but then it is more durable than with clad. Steve Mineart zenvair 601xl do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" All the opinions I've read are good and worthy ones. In my case, as a CFI I'm used to switching hands and going between wheels and sticks and having to stretch across the cockpit to reach things. For most of my career I owned a Cessna and an Aeronca Champ (still have the Champ.) I chose to go with the center stick for 1.) Simplicity 2.) Comfort (nice armrest leading up to the stick instead of curling your hand in your lap.) 3.) Easier entry and exit. To deal with the other issues I will simply design my panel for easy placement of controls (and duplicate some on the right) and install a single axis autopilot to do the flying when I need my hands or am otherwise engaged. Anyone who has flown single pilot IFR and tried to copy clearances, twist radios and the like while in IMC knows the value of an AP. If you don't want an AP, remember the "poor man's auto pilot" (rudder pedals) which can be used to keep the wings level on an otherwise properly trimmed AC. In the end, there is no best choice..... just go with what works for you. Tim Juhl Do not archive -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64881#64881 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:14 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL Paul there is no reason whatsoever, Chris Heintz designed the center stick and for nearly 22 years it has been nothing short of a great system. It is truly the best way to fly the 601 of any series. However, many who have never flown with the system wanted something more conventional as dual leg smackers or if you have wet shoes then they are called ball breakers. If you=92re panel is laid out properly then in the first and last 1000ft everything you need can be accessed by your left hand. If you need to write down information then I sure hope you got it before you entered the circuit like you=92re supposed to a properly trimmed Zodiac can fly for large amounts of time hands off. It is funny anyone who has built there second Zodiac still retains the =93Y=94 stick and any seasoned 601 owner can easily modify the system to a dual stick but never seem to. All arguments over changing from a =93Y=94 stick configuration are simply those who are afraid to get used to something different. But it is a personal choice, and to each there own The 601=92s in Canada owned by Flypass were used for a great many years as flight training planes and retained the Y stick plus when many of those students built there own planes they didn=92t install a dual stick configuration either. This is not an argument, I won=92t have a dual stick setup in my plane, it is a personal decision and preference, amazingly enough I find the Y stick more social then a dual stick ( never could figure that one out but it is true to me anyways). Any debate of one being better then the other is totally false and wrote with personal preference. Below is an early picture of my panel for the 601XL. Let the scotch bright pads fly !! Remember I did say personal preference ! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL I was surprised to hear so many listers say they didn't like the center stick because they couldn't write left handed. I haven't flown my XL yet, but it seems to me there are two obvious answers to this particular problem. First, you could configure the plane to fly from the right seat. OK, I realize this is sacrilege, but it would allow the left hand on stick, right hand on throttle. The more obvious answer is that when the plane is properly trimmed up you should be able to let go of the controls long enough to adjust the radios or write something down. Is there some reason this doesn't work? Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 01:00 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote: Hello group ,I have a question . Is it worth the effort to add dual control sticks to this design .What are your thoughts pro & con on this issue . Thanks Wade Jones --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion -- 9/29/2006 -- 9/29/2006 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:11 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspiration --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Craig your right, it I the original prototype. In fact at one time it used to have a center section like the old HD series and it even had bungee main landing gear. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:16 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspiration --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" GCXA was at Quality Sport Planes after this trip. During the Jabiru FWF seminar Michael Heinz was taking folks up. I believe this is 601XL #1 - the first ever built. -- Craig -- 9/29/2006 -- 9/29/2006 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:07 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Zenith-List: Rough Cut-Polishing progress real time --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Now you know why I use paper towels... Happy polishing Carlos Ch601-HD, plans Skins for right (or left??) wing polished. Need shades around it :-) Montreal, Canada --- Bill Naumuk a crit : > Steve- (Everyone who's polished feel free to jump in!!) ... > Speaking of polishers, how do I know when to give up on a bonnet? They turn black in > seconds, and Ma took one look at one and said it wasn't to be seen in the same county as her > washing machine. Can't blame her. > Here's a visual for you- Ma with one of the bonnets in her hand chasing a runaway washing > machine down the road yelling "You wimp- get back here"! > > Bill Naumuk __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:16 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I'm the third owner of my kit and the original builder (Jack Rentfrow) built all the sheet metal portions. For various reasons I'm replacing the rear top skin and am checking the fit of the horizontal stabilizer. I don't see how you can install the stab with the top rear skin in place. This kit was built from circa 1999-2000 plans. The way mine is built the plates on the stab go inside the plates on the fuselage. The plates on the fuselage are in place and the holes through the stab and fuse plates have been drilled and do align. With the cut-out on the top skin you can't bring the stab in and then drop it inside of the plates on the fuselage. Is it built wrong? Were things done in the wrong order? Are newer kits different? Do the cut-outs in the top skin need to be more generous? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:37 PM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Changed out gear plates on HDS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" Listers, This is for those of you flying with Bungee Gear, and as a follow on to what larry said about his gear modification below. Since I have 531 hours on my 601, I have been following with interest the problem of cracking around the weld at the plate at the bottom of the main gear struts. I remember Chris Heintz telling me to avoid side loads on the gear. I've been carefull to do that. My .125" plates have only four bolt holes. I have never landed on grass ( I would like to but felt it might cause a problem ) as I believed that may be part of the problem. I think the mod that Larry and others are using should eliminate the problem. However I've decided to just add four Gussetts to my gear as I have a friend/neighbor who is a professional welder , A&P and IA, who belives that our planned mod will work. I will continue to operate only on paved runways though. That's my problem, Right? Now for what I found when I removed the right main gear ( the left will be done next ). By the way I devised simple nut plate strips for the bolts that everyone has to fight with when installing the gear. I also designed my own simple fixture to stretch the bungees while installing the gear. I had submitted these to the Zenair Newsletter several years ago. Chris said" nice idea but why, the bungees will last a long time". I'm an old mechanic and I know everything has to be worked on at some time. Now I'm laughing all the way to the workshop, so to speak, in that I removed the gear in just a few minutes and will reinstall it in just a few minutes when the welding is done. I was amazed that the bungees were in pretty sad condition, even though the plate on the top of the wing was bearly raised up from the plate on top. In my opinion the 1080 bungess are just too stiff for this airplane. I think I remembered that some one recently removed one of the bungees at each main gear to make theplane ride softer. Maybe that's what we need, but I'm no engineer. But, I've already bought new bungees frm A/C spruce ( one day delivery ) and will put it all back together as original except the new gussets. My warning to you all is that just because the plate on top of the wing is still almost flush, it doesn't mean the bungees are in great shape. I had some fraying I could see from the bottom but I couldn't see where all the outer threads were completely gone. Also, even though I keep the gear legs greased, and since I had only the .125" thick aluminum WEAR plates ( I'm adding the 1/4" nylon wear plates now ) and there is .002" to .003" wear on the main gear struts in the area where thay remain in contact with the aluminun wear plate. The funny thing is that the aluminun wear plate is only worn a couple of thousanths too. There was NO wear on the crosstube that rides up and down between the extrusions up inside the wing, and it's impossible to keep this area greased either! Those of you who haven't installed your gear legs yet, do youirself a favor and make up some simple aluninum strips with the nut plates for the gear attachment bolts. It will make you life easier, you'll cuss less and it will be a piece of cake when you have to do maintenance in that area. Smiling! do not archive Jim Hoak 601HD 531 hours - Rotax 912UL ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Changed out gear plates on HDS > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > Hi guys, > I finally moved the fuselage into the booth for painting, but first > had to remove the gear box, strut and bungees on the main gear. > There were only 85-hours on the plane, but I inspected the guides > and strut cross tube. No wear or even missing paint. I did have one > bungee that had been damaged, probably during the first excruciating > assembly of the 32 bolts and nuts. It still took hours to reassemble > each gear box with a custom socket welded to a short L-arm extension. > I jigged and matched the plates, then cut off the strut half an inch from > the > plate, squared the end and slid the weldment tube with 1/4 inch plate into > the strut. The strut was drilled first and the weldment tube match > drilled > to it. The gear is now 1/4 inch longer, held by a 1/4-inch AN4 and the > main wheel alignment has a 6-tenths of a degree toe in. The socket and > plate replacement is a very viable way to change out the plate thickness > and eliminate the potential for gear plate failure. > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.gif > > Thought you'd like to know, > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:50 PM PST US From: Christian Tremblay Subject: RE: Zenith-List: BAD ALUM on Market. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Christian Tremblay Thanks a lot Mark -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Zodie Rocket Envoy: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:45 PM : zenith-list@matronics.com Objet: Zenith-List: BAD ALUM on Market. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Actually while were on this note I wish to make all scratch builders that it has been brought to our attention that 6061-T6 alum manufactured in China with a sheet marking starting with H (I can 't remember the name at this moment but you will recognize it as a non American name) is not of the same standard. We have done several tests with both Alcan and the imported alum with the same 6061-T6 stamp and in each case the import had prevailing cracks and on thicker pieces actually broke in the bend while the Alcan product formed just fine. I don't have any more info on this but be aware of what your buying. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Wilkinson" I have been registered on this list for a few months and have learned a lot. I received my 601XL plans a year ago and studied it in detail. Also watched the DVD by Homebuilt.com. I am going to scratch buildt. All the aircraft grade aluminium in South Africa are imported and therefore quite expensive. Luckily all the 6061T6 sheet thicknesses are available from the distributor. There are local South African 6061T6 extrusions e.g.angles and the flat bar for the main spars available but without the quality marking every few inches stating it is 6061T6.(Quality markings) I am working for a petrochemical factory in Secunda, South Africa. On site is a metallurgical laboratory that is willing to do a physical tensile strenght on a sample and confirm the chemical property of the material.(E.g. Silicon content) Otherwise I will have to import the angles and flatbar at an enormous price. However, I want to ask your advise as it is not worth while to take chances with inferior materials. Regards William Wilkinson Secunda, South Africa -- 9/27/2006 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:03 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL Which is what I plan to do also. Ed Moody II ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL One way to address some of these problems is to make the upper portion of the passenger-side stick removable. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:57 PM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Inspiration --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wade Jones" Hi Dave ,what did you do to ruin the spar cap . Wade ----- Original Message ----- From: "TxDave" Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspiration > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" > > Thanks for the inspiration, Mark. I was feeling kind of bummed out due to > ruining one of my left wing spar caps right before I was about to start > riveting. Great story. > > Dave Clay > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64867#64867 > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:20 PM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N329F Update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" The bird weighs in at 692 lbs. A little heavier than what I would like but I attribute most of the weight to the Suzuki engine. With the engine mount, radiator, fuel pumps, coil pack, hoses, wiring and cowling, the total engine weight is close to the 200 lb limit called out by Zenith. Makes it a little limiting on useful load but I will probably do 99 percent of my flying solo (my wife doesn't believe airplanes can really fly). The CG is pretty good but a little forward of middle range and very close to the forward limit in the most forward weight calculations. I'm using a 3 blade, 68" Kiev prop. Jim Fosse ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:56 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips. Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:24 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: PIA depicted All- Spent the day getting this PIA to the point you see. Remember, this was the EASY skin. About 4 hrs. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:24 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Won't a fly cutter also work with its center drill bit removed if you use a press and everything is tightly clamped? By fly cutter I mean the tool with a center drill bit of about 1/4" and a cutting tool on the end of an adjustable arm. Harbor Freight sells one with two bits that might be more stabile in this configuration. -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips. Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:35 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Craig, I am just about to try that. I think if I put it in the drill press and turn it by hand, it might work. I can get the speed down to 200 RPM's, but I think that may be to fast. Anyway, here goes. Thanks for the suggestion, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Won't a fly cutter also work with its center drill bit removed if you use a press and everything is tightly clamped? By fly cutter I mean the tool with a center drill bit of about 1/4" and a cutting tool on the end of an adjustable arm. Harbor Freight sells one with two bits that might be more stabile in this configuration. -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:44 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips. Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:01 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates The edges will be beveled. May not be a problem in such thin material. Otherwise flip the cutting tool around. -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Craig, I am just about to try that. I think if I put it in the drill press and turn it by hand, it might work. I can get the speed down to 200 RPM's, but I think that may be to fast. Anyway, here goes. Thanks for the suggestion, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Won't a fly cutter also work with its center drill bit removed if you use a press and everything is tightly clamped? By fly cutter I mean the tool with a center drill bit of about 1/4" and a cutting tool on the end of an adjustable arm. Harbor Freight sells one with two bits that might be more stabile in this configuration. -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips. Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:50 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates So, I'm guilty of trying to do things the hard way first. Just cut one out with the fly cutter on the drill press turning it by hand. It works really good and doesn't really take any longer than using a hole saw. Still have to smooth them out either way. By the way my Scotch Brite wheel is GREY colored. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Won't a fly cutter also work with its center drill bit removed if you use a press and everything is tightly clamped? By fly cutter I mean the tool with a center drill bit of about 1/4" and a cutting tool on the end of an adjustable arm. Harbor Freight sells one with two bits that might be more stabile in this configuration. -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:44 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips. Dave in Salem 801 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:36 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Hi Dave, My inspection plates are all "Oval" - actually a combination of half circles and a straight line between the tangents. These are very easy to form with layout and snips. They are also easy to mount inside the skin by attaching a temporary handle with double stick tape (rolled up 200 mph tape). Perhaps the circle was not the best choice. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 07:43 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote: >I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole >in the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a >drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill >press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will >start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it >down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are >4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't >want to cut them with tin snips. > >Dave in Salem >801 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:49 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Changed out gear plates on HDS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" Jim, Any chance of posting a picture of your aluminum strips & nut plates? Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, wings done, working on c-section Those of you who haven't installed your gear legs yet, do youirself a favor and make up some simple aluninum strips with the nut plates for the gear attachment bolts. It will make you life easier, you'll cuss less and it will be a piece of cake when you have to do maintenance in that area. Smiling! do not archive Jim Hoak 601HD 531 hours - Rotax 912UL > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:55 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Paul, I'm just trying things out. Oval sounds like a good idea also. What do you mean about attaching inside the skins. Are you attaching them permanently with rivets or using nut plates or what? Just curious. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates Hi Dave, My inspection plates are all "Oval" - actually a combination of half circles and a straight line between the tangents. These are very easy to form with layout and snips. They are also easy to mount inside the skin by attaching a temporary handle with double stick tape (rolled up 200 mph tape). Perhaps the circle was not the best choice. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 07:43 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote: I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips. Dave in Salem 801 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 ---------------------------------------------