Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Inspection plates (JOHN STARN)
2. 01:30 AM - Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question (John Livsey)
3. 03:00 AM - Continental 0-200 EGT CHT (Clive Richards)
4. 03:32 AM - Re: N329F Update (Rick R)
5. 04:11 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Jean-Paul Roy)
6. 04:26 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 04:28 AM - Re: PIA depicted (Gordon)
8. 04:44 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Edward Moody II)
9. 04:46 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Edward Moody II)
10. 04:48 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Edward Moody II)
11. 05:13 AM - Re: PIA depicted (Robert L. Stone)
12. 05:17 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Robert L. Stone)
13. 05:53 AM - Re: Inspection plates (n801bh@netzero.com)
14. 06:14 AM - Re: Continental 0-200 EGT CHT (Aaron Gustafson)
15. 06:35 AM - Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (vozzen)
16. 07:21 AM - Re: Inspection plates (leinad)
17. 07:36 AM - 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix (John Bolding)
18. 08:10 AM - 601xl plans & tools for sale (Hudsonmusic1@aol.com)
19. 08:42 AM - Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea (Debo Cox)
20. 08:49 AM - Re: 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix (Chuck Deiterich)
21. 08:59 AM - Re: Changed out gear plates on HDS (Steve Hulland)
22. 08:59 AM - Re: PIA depicted (Bill Naumuk)
23. 09:06 AM - Re: 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix (Craig Payne)
24. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Craig Payne)
25. 09:13 AM - Re: PIA depicted (Bill Naumuk)
26. 09:13 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Craig Payne)
27. 09:20 AM - Re: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea (Bill Naumuk)
28. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Inspection plates (Edward Moody II)
29. 09:24 AM - Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (TxDave)
30. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: Inspection plates (Craig Payne)
31. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Edward Moody II)
32. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? (Bill Naumuk)
33. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Inspection plates (Edward Moody II)
34. 09:56 AM - Re: Inspection plates (Christian Tremblay)
35. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Changed out gear plates on HDS (Jim Hoak)
36. 12:12 PM - Re: Continental 0-200 EGT CHT (nick@aoaircrafters.com)
37. 12:37 PM - 12-hours etch to rinse to dry to primer (LarryMcFarland)
38. 02:21 PM - Re: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea (Clyde Barcus)
39. 02:59 PM - Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Grant Corriveau)
40. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Craig Payne)
41. 03:27 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (David X)
42. 03:37 PM - Re: AMD Zodiac??? (David X)
43. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne)
44. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: AMD Zodiac??? (Craig Payne)
45. 03:55 PM - Re: Inspection plates (Roger Venables)
46. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Inspection plates (Noel Loveys)
47. 04:55 PM - Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Wade Jones)
48. 05:46 PM - Re: 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix (jetboy)
49. 06:51 PM - It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (N5SL)
50. 07:18 PM - Throttle levers (Matt & Jo)
51. 08:16 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Edward Moody II)
52. 08:55 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne)
53. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Rmtnview@aol.com)
54. 09:26 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne)
55. 09:31 PM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
56. 10:07 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Sigmo@aol.com)
57. 11:00 PM - 601HD/HDS header tank in an XL? (Craig Payne)
58. 11:19 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne)
59. 11:32 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
60. 11:37 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Inspection plates |
With the HRII looking at 230 kts or so we went the "doubler" route on
all the inspection plates. Cut the hole, make a doubler ring/donut out
of scrap .040 that was 1" wider than the hole. 1/2" inside & riveted to
the skin. 1/2" exposed within the hole with nutplates on the backside of
the ring. Ring is 1" wide. Depending in the size of the inspection hole
we spaced nutsplates in the four corners (most were rectangular with
rounded "corners") and along the edges. With the inspection plates made
of the same material as the skin we have a flush, strong installation.
We were using flush rivets, nut plates so we did have to drill & dimple
to get the flush finish.
Figured with all the extra weight we lost approx .00031 kts. 8*)
Do Not Archive. KABONG
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Livsey <jlivsey@bigpond.com>
Thanks guys, looks like I'll go down the LCD path.
John
Message 3
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| Subject: | Continental 0-200 EGT CHT |
Hi list
do you have the max CHT & EGT recomended by manufacturer for
the Continental 0-200 as we have now fitted gauges, only had oil
temperature before. Any one flying with a 0-200 what are you getting ?
Clive Richards
For Ray Lasniers G CBDG
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: N329F Update |
Jim,
Might you have some photos of you're radiator installation/cowling? I'm at that
point right now with my 1.3.
Thanks,
do not archive
Jim Fosse <jfosse1@shawneelink.net> wrote:
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
Just had an idea but i wonder if that would work.
Cut 2 templates out of plywood of the dimension of the inspection
plates.
Sandwich the amount of plates to be made between the templates. Use a
router with a cutter with a bearing to cut around the templates. Would
make perfect cuts.
Just an idea
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN STARN
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
With the HRII looking at 230 kts or so we went the "doubler" route on
all the inspection plates. Cut the hole, make a doubler ring/donut out
of scrap .040 that was 1" wider than the hole. 1/2" inside & riveted to
the skin. 1/2" exposed within the hole with nutplates on the backside of
the ring. Ring is 1" wide. Depending in the size of the inspection hole
we spaced nutsplates in the four corners (most were rectangular with
rounded "corners") and along the edges. With the inspection plates made
of the same material as the skin we have a flush, strong installation.
We were using flush rivets, nut plates so we did have to drill & dimple
to get the flush finish.
Figured with all the extra weight we lost approx .00031 kts. 8*)
Do Not Archive. KABONG
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
Hi Dave,
I wish I could take credit for the design, but Chris Heintz deserves
all the credit.
The inspection plates are attached with nut plates installed on the
inner side of the inspection plate with countersunk solid rivets. I
decided to use the soft aluminum rivets and set them with a one ton
arbor press I already had in my shop for other purposes. The oval
shape allows you to put the finished plate through the hole in the
skin and then attach it to the skin with pan head machine screws. If
you need the actual AN numbers for the screws and nut plates, just
let me know and I can get them from the shop.
The procedure I use:
1. Decide on the inspection plate size (or take it from the drawings).
2. Lay out the outline on the sheet metal, and cut out the plate
with snips. File the edges smooth.
3. Lay out the position of the screws - Typically 3 at each arc and
one or two on the flat sides of the plate. A 10 mm edge distance is
fine. Drill #40 pilot holes for the screws.
4. Position the plate on the skin. Attach with duct tape (I prefer
200 mph tape since it has more easily removable adhesive). Match
drill the holes in the skin for the screws. Mark the plate to show
which side is up and which end points forward.
5. Remove the plate from the skin. Lay out the mounting holes for
the nut plates and drill pilot holes for them. Countersink the nut
plate mounting holes and enlarge the screw holes.
6. Mount the nut plates. This ends the construction of the inspection plate.
7. Lay out the hole in the skin - 10 mm inside the screw holes. Cut
the hole using snips, files, and a step drill to start the snips.
8. Enlarge the screw holes in the skin.
At this point, the construction is done. The inspection plate is
inserted in the hole and attached with screws through the skin. This
is where the trick with double stick tape and temporary handle is
used to hold the inspection plate in place while starting the screws
in the nut plates.
After you have done this once or twice you should be able to do the
whole thing from start to finish in about an hour.
Have fun,
Paul
At 10:10 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote:
>Paul,
>
>I'm just trying things out. Oval sounds like a good idea also. What
>do you mean about attaching inside the skins. Are you attaching them
>permanently with rivets or using nut plates or what? Just curious.
>
>Dave
>
--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: PIA depicted |
Bill,
Looks great, but I noticed you are using what appears to be a light duty
polisher for car waxing. I use a Porter Cable 6" Random Orbit Polisher
with a speed control and a foam compounding head for the initial work
and then use a cloth pad for final polishing. There are other tools that
will do a great job as well, but I didn't have the patience to use a car
polisher that looked similar to yours.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: PIA depicted
All-
Spent the day getting this PIA to the point you see. Remember,
this was the EASY skin. About 4 hrs.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
Try using a fly cutter on the drill press. The fly cutter usually has
the pilot drill secured with a hex socket screw and can be removed just
like your hole saws.
When the cutter first penetrates the aluminum in one part of the circle,
it is usually an indication that it is time to finish "tearing" the
circle out by hand. It's a lot like the way the OLFA knife works. Try it
but make sure the work table of the drill press is as perpendicular to
the drill axis as possible. You can check that with the fly cutter in
the chuck.
Second choice is to use the hole saw to cut through a hard wood board
(no lectures on hardwood terminology please.. I don't care). Use one
hard wood board under the piece of aluminum and the one with the hole on
top. With the whole mess clamped together you may have more control and
a smoother edge.
Third option.... (perhaps the best) cut the hole size you want in a
piece of heavy stock..... .035" or thicker. Use that as a cutting guide
and cut your round plates out with an OLFA knife.... very smooth edges
with minimal sanding.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in
the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill
press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow
speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab
easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a
Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch
holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them
with tin snips.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
If you flip the cutter around I think you'll need to turn the tool
backwards.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
The edges will be beveled. May not be a problem in such thin material.
Otherwise flip the cutting tool around.
-- Craig
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
Install nutplates on the backside of the hatch cover itself. Use flush
rivets for that. Drill the screw holes first then instal the nutplates.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
Paul,
I'm just trying things out. Oval sounds like a good idea also. What do
you mean about attaching inside the skins. Are you attaching them
permanently with rivets or using nut plates or what? Just curious.
Dave
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: PIA depicted |
Hay Bill,
If you make the entire aircraft shine like that it's going to be
like flying a mirror. A shine like that with a little bright color trim
would look great.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: PIA depicted
All-
Spent the day getting this PIA to the point you see. Remember,
this was the EASY skin. About 4 hrs.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
Craig,
Yes, you can remove the bit and clamp it down good, then cut a
circle in wood or metal. Just go slow, that is minimum pressure on the
work and put the drill press on the slowest speed. I do it all the time
when I want a circle without a center hole.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:10 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
Won't a fly cutter also work with its center drill bit removed if you
use a press and everything is tightly clamped? By fly cutter I mean the
tool with a center drill bit of about 1/4" and a cutting tool on the end
of an adjustable arm. Harbor Freight sells one with two bits that might
be more stabile in this configuration.
-- Craig
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Ruddiman
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:44 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in
the center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill
press. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow
speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab
easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a
Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch
holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them
with tin snips.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
You are going about it the correct way. The trick to not get it to grab
is the run the drill press in reverse. if you use a brand new hole saw t
he teeth are nice and sharp and will cut through the aluminum while spi
nning in reverse. Worked great for me.. YMMV...
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net> wrote:
I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in th
e center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press
. Just clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed
and use cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It
leaves a very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite whee
l. There must be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws
are really expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips. Da
========================
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<html><P>You are going about it the correct way. The trick to not get it
to grab is the run the drill press in reverse. if you use a brand new h
ole saw the teeth are nice and sharp and will cut through the aluminum w
hile spinning in reverse. Worked great for me.. YMMV...</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcas
t.net> wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am trying to make some round inspecti
on hole covers with no hole in the center. I have had some success using
large hole saws on a drill press. Just clamp everything down tight and
put the drill press on slow speed and use cutting oil. It kind of works
but will start to grab easily. It leaves a very rough edge. Then I smoot
h it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must be a better way. These ar
e 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really expensive. I really don't wa
nt to cut them with tin snips.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave in Salem</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>801</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="c
ourier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
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">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
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tronics.com</A>
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===========
ics.com</A>
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===========
www.matronics.com/contribution</A>
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===========
</B></FONT></PRE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Continental 0-200 EGT CHT |
The Continental manual states
CHT max 525
Oil temp max 225
" " desired 150-200
no info on EGT do not archive
Aaron Gustafson
----- Original Message -----
From: Clive Richards
To: zenith-list
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 5:03 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 EGT CHT
Hi list
do you have the max CHT & EGT recomended by manufacturer
for the Continental 0-200 as we have now fitted gauges, only had oil
temperature before. Any one flying with a 0-200 what are you getting ?
Clive Richards
For Ray Lasniers G CBDG
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/29/2006
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "vozzen" <vozzen@yahoo.com>
>>With the cut-out on the
>top skin you can't bring the stab in and then drop it inside of the plates
>on the fuselage.
Craig--
Same situation on mine. I left one of the forward mounting brackets un-riveted
-- allows the stab to slip into the notch in the topskin. You could widen
the cutout, or drill out a bracket. Might be more ideas in the archives.
--Rico, XL/3300, fuse....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64980#64980
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
Draw a circle on a scrap sheet and cut it out with snips. A little filing and
know one will know you did it by hand.
Dan Dempsey
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64984#64984
Message 17
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| Subject: | 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix |
Lo and behold,Zenith just announced a "fix" for the failed fitting on
the seat belt attach on the 701.
I guess I'm just hard to please but I really don't understand the "fix".
The problem lies in the fact that the pop rivets pulled out of the seat
tunnel cleanly, they did NOT tear large holes where they were installed.
The fix is just a simple doubler on the inside of the seat tunnel. I
CANNOT get my arms around how that fixes the problem. If the problem was
tearing out a chunk of tunnel with the fitting still attached, then a
doubler to spread out the load over a wider area(or thicker tunnel) is a
proper fix, BUT if the problem is pulled rivets then why would not the
rivets pull just a cleanly thru the doubler as well.?? Couple of bolts
MIGHT be the solution.
I was doubtful that Zenith would respond to this situation so I farmed
out a fix for MY airplane which ended up going down to the gear tunnel
with a 2 piece fitting rived to the tunnel on 2 sides with proper driven
rivets. The engineer that did it for me said our friendship is over if
I post a drawing as he has NO control over the rest of the structure but
he said it was capable of multiples of the load of the original. He
questioned why that the wing spar and fuselage sides had driven rivets
and this fitting which is loaded higher has pops.?? I had no answer
for him.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 18
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| Subject: | 601xl plans & tools for sale |
I have a new set of 601xl plans that were bought in May of this year and not
used and includes the CD-ROM builder's manual. I also have all the recomended
tools from zenith to build the 601xl. Also included are several years of news
letters in a nice Zenith binder that cost &150.00. I am asking $600 for all of
this shipped to you. Home # 502-857-2218 Cell # 502-316-3372. Thanks, Jeff
Hudson.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea |
Hi guys,
Ever since I started thinking about drilling my spar caps, I've been scratching
my head about the best way to drill perfectly aligned holes into them and still
support the remaining ends so no bow is built into the spars. I've seen where
other guys set their drill press beside their work table and swing the head
around, and I even tried it, but it was a little like driving a car from the
back seat. It was hard for me to make sure everything was perfectly aligned,
and for this critical drilling operation I felt like I needed to be a little
more in control.
Here's my solution. I used one of my hole saws to cut a hole in the workbench
so I could stick the post of the drill press up through it. The head of the drill
press comes off with two simple allen screws, so it was really easy to remove
it, then stick it back on. The drill press is resting on a solid small table
under the bench, and I've even got the normal adjustable drill press table
cranked up and braced against the bottom of the workbench - further stabilizing
it. After leveling and making sure everything was square, I cut some small
wedges and wedged the post in the hole. It's solid as a rock.
After I'm done drilling, I can remove the press and will be able to put a c-clamp
through that hole and clamp things from the middle of the table. Pretty cool.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair scratchbuilder
Working on wing spars (obviously)
---------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix |
John,
Here is a comment I made previously.
When I built my 701, I did not feel comfortable with the aluminum seat
belt
attachment that was riveted to the tunnel. In fact, somewhere 4 or 5
years
ago, on this forum, I read where the bolt between the seat belt and the
aluminum attachment pulled a slot through the attachment. So I made my
attachment from 0.40" 4130 steel instead of 0.40" 6061 aluminum. I then
used the 0.40" 6061 as a doubler on the inside of the tunnel to give
more
thickness to keep the rivets from pulling through. I did not ask ZAC
about
this, but I feel that this is a stronger anchor which actually gets
pulled
by both the lap and shoulder straps.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: John Bolding
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix
Lo and behold,Zenith just announced a "fix" for the failed fitting on
the seat belt attach on the 701.
I guess I'm just hard to please but I really don't understand the
"fix".
The problem lies in the fact that the pop rivets pulled out of the
seat tunnel cleanly, they did NOT tear large holes where they were
installed.
The fix is just a simple doubler on the inside of the seat tunnel. I
CANNOT get my arms around how that fixes the problem. If the problem was
tearing out a chunk of tunnel with the fitting still attached, then a
doubler to spread out the load over a wider area(or thicker tunnel) is a
proper fix, BUT if the problem is pulled rivets then why would not the
rivets pull just a cleanly thru the doubler as well.?? Couple of bolts
MIGHT be the solution.
I was doubtful that Zenith would respond to this situation so I farmed
out a fix for MY airplane which ended up going down to the gear tunnel
with a 2 piece fitting rived to the tunnel on 2 sides with proper driven
rivets. The engineer that did it for me said our friendship is over if
I post a drawing as he has NO control over the rest of the structure but
he said it was capable of multiples of the load of the original. He
questioned why that the wing spar and fuselage sides had driven rivets
and this fitting which is loaded higher has pops.?? I had no answer
for him.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Changed out gear plates on HDS |
Jim,
I have a CH 600 and believe the main gear is the same as the older main gear
in the 600. Interested in your modification as well as bungee puller. Is
there any way you can send me the details of your modification and bungee
puller? Even if they do not work, I expect they will be very close and I can
modify.
Recently received registration numbers and should be seeking a DAR during
late November if all goes well. They first flight in late November or
sometime in December.
The airplane was plans built. Started in 1985 by local folks, changed hands
a couple of times, including a tour with local EAA folks. I have had it for
a while and am getting very close to completion & flight. Would like to make
sure my gear is in the best condition possible and will modify if necessary.
Leaving on a jet plane for Corpus Christi to attend a reunion with a bunch
of retired and active Marines Tues. morning. May not answer email' after
today, until my return on the 9th.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
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| Subject: | Re: PIA depicted |
Gordon and all-
My first response got zapped out by Norton- seems someone wants to
change my home page. Big deal- they can have it.
I have two auto polishers, a 6" and a 9". I thought the 6" was a
straight up rotary, but it turns out it's an orbital, too. Regardless of
the brand, I would recommend a straight up rotary for the first pass.
Good luck finding one. The bonnets on those that chuck in a drill don't
hold tight enough. The bonnet stays still while the backing plate grinds
itself to pieces. At this point I have more money in bonnets than the
polishers.
Tim Shank turned me on to the Nuvite system, and I have no regrets
other than the fact that ACS doesn't carry the heavier F grits. I
decided to scrap the fuse side skins and cut new ones using the plastic
coated sheet available from Wick's. I'm not comfortable with the fact
that I had to remove the worst of the corrosion with 220 grit- I'm sure
I weakened the sheet. I figure that I can polish the remaining structure
with no coarser than G6. Between not having to pay $40 for an F grit (If
I could find it) and the time savings of polishing virgin aluminum, I'm
time and money ahead cutting new skins. What the hell, I've got a 50%
scratch-built kit as it is!
For those into "Alternative methods" I repeat my observations.
Mother's is the grit equivalent of G6, and Dupont Polishing Compound is
the equivalent of C. Nuvite S may well be in a category of it's own. I
can't say what the corrosion protective qualities of the alternatives
are and don't really care since I'm only using the alternatives far
upstream of Nuvite C and S.
Good building!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PIA depicted
Bill,
Looks great, but I noticed you are using what appears to be a light
duty polisher for car waxing. I use a Porter Cable 6" Random Orbit
Polisher
Message 23
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| Subject: | 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix |
Did you ask Zenith for their reasoning?
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Bolding
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix
Lo and behold,Zenith just announced a "fix" for the failed fitting on the
seat belt attach on the 701.
I guess I'm just hard to please but I really don't understand the "fix".
The problem lies in the fact that the pop rivets pulled out of the seat
tunnel cleanly, they did NOT tear large holes where they were installed.
The fix is just a simple doubler on the inside of the seat tunnel. I CANNOT
get my arms around how that fixes the problem. If the problem was tearing
out a chunk of tunnel with the fitting still attached, then a doubler to
spread out the load over a wider area(or thicker tunnel) is a proper fix,
BUT if the problem is pulled rivets then why would not the rivets pull just
a cleanly thru the doubler as well.?? Couple of bolts MIGHT be the solution.
I was doubtful that Zenith would respond to this situation so I farmed out a
fix for MY airplane which ended up going down to the gear tunnel with a 2
piece fitting rived to the tunnel on 2 sides with proper driven rivets. The
engineer that did it for me said our friendship is over if I post a drawing
as he has NO control over the rest of the structure but he said it was
capable of multiples of the load of the original. He questioned why that
the wing spar and fuselage sides had driven rivets and this fitting which is
loaded higher has pops.?? I had no answer for him.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Thanks for the feedback. The downside of removing rivets is that you will
have to remove rivets whenever you need to remove the stab. That should be
infrequent but for some reason it bugs me. Maybe I'll mount the entire top
rear skin with nut-plates :-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vozzen
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 7:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "vozzen" <vozzen@yahoo.com>
>>With the cut-out on the
>top skin you can't bring the stab in and then drop it inside of the
>plates on the fuselage.
Craig--
Same situation on mine. I left one of the forward mounting brackets
un-riveted -- allows the stab to slip into the notch in the topskin. You
could widen the cutout, or drill out a bracket. Might be more ideas in the
archives.
--Rico, XL/3300, fuse....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64980#64980
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: PIA depicted |
Bob-
Yeah, a mirror with dings, dents, and smileys. I'll just tell people
to kick back about 20' and just look at the big picture.
Thank God most of my mistakes are in areas that will be painted!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PIA depicted
Hay Bill,
If you make the entire aircraft shine like that it's going to be
like flying a mirror. A shine like that with a little bright color trim
would look great.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: PIA depicted
All-
Spent the day getting this PIA to the point you see. Remember,
this was the EASY skin. About 4 hrs.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 26
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| Subject: | Inspection plates |
Good point. My press doesn't reverse so would only work if turned by hand.
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
If you flip the cutter around I think you'll need to turn the tool
backwards.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig <mailto:craig@craigandjean.com> Payne
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
The edges will be beveled. May not be a problem in such thin material.
Otherwise flip the cutting tool around.
-- Craig
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea |
Debo-
I used a roller support and C-clamped a 2'x2' piece of plywood to
the drill press table. Then again, I'm lazy.
Speaking of drill presses, when did they do away with down locks?
Man, I miss my Bridgeport, but I live in an area that doesn't provide
240v 3 phase, so I'm SOL anyway.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea
Hi guys,
Ever since I started thinking about drilling my spar caps, I've been
scratching my head about the best way to drill perfectly aligned holes
into them and still support the remaining ends so no bow is built into
the spars. I've seen where other guys set their drill press beside their
work table and swing the head around, and I even tried it, but it was a
little like driving a car from the back seat. It was hard for me to make
sure everything was perfectly aligned, and for this critical drilling
operation I felt like I needed to be a little more in control.
Here's my solution. I used one of my hole saws to cut a hole in the
workbench so I could stick the post of the drill press up through it.
The head of the drill press comes off with two simple allen screws, so
it was really easy to remove it, then stick it back on. The drill press
is resting on a solid small table under the bench, and I've even got the
normal adjustable drill press table cranked up and braced against the
bottom of the workbench - further stabilizing it. After leveling and
making sure everything was square, I cut some small wedges and wedged
the post in the hole. It's solid as a rock.
After I'm done drilling, I can remove the press and will be able to
put a c-clamp through that hole and clamp things from the middle of the
table. Pretty cool.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair scratchbuilder
Working on wing spars (obviously)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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-----
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Shame on you and a pox on your progeny for taking the simple approach. We're
amatuer aeronautical engineers, by God!
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:20 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plates
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
>
> Draw a circle on a scrap sheet and cut it out with snips. A little filing
> and know one will know you did it by hand.
>
> Dan Dempsey
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
I think there is a misconception about rolling .040 sheets. I ordered two .040
4' x12' sheets from Airparts, Inc. They came rolled in a box about 15 inches square.
They remained in this box for 2 months. When my wife and I unrolled them
they were perfectly flat. Airparts rolls up to .050. I'm no expert, but they
are. Of course they have the equipment and facilities to roll .040. I cetrainly
wouldn't recommend you try this at home.
Since I discovered Trident Metals an hour down the road in Austin I now use them
for all my aluminum. Great prices and no shipping charges.
The idea of making several seperate rolls posted by Graham really is a good plan.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65016#65016
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
We could discuss (ad nauseam) whether you should cut clockwise or
counter-clockwise.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plates
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Shame on you and a pox on your progeny for taking the simple approach. We're
amatuer aeronautical engineers, by God!
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:20 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plates
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
>
> Draw a circle on a scrap sheet and cut it out with snips. A little filing
> and know one will know you did it by hand.
>
> Dan Dempsey
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Not that I condone that reasoning but wouldn't it be easier to mount the
brackets with nutplates?
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Thanks for the feedback. The downside of removing rivets is that you will
> have to remove rivets whenever you need to remove the stab. That should be
> infrequent but for some reason it bugs me. Maybe I'll mount the entire top
> rear skin with nut-plates :-)
>
> -- Craig
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Transporting aluminum sheet? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Wick's won't roll anything over .035.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 12:24 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Transporting aluminum sheet?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
> I think there is a misconception about rolling .040 sheets. I ordered two
> .040 4' x12' sheets from Airparts, Inc. They came rolled in a box about 15
> inches square. They remained in this box for 2 months. When my wife and I
> unrolled them they were perfectly flat. Airparts rolls up to .050. I'm no
> expert, but they are. Of course they have the equipment and facilities to
> roll .040. I cetrainly wouldn't recommend you try this at home.
>
> Since I discovered Trident Metals an hour down the road in Austin I now
> use them for all my aluminum. Great prices and no shipping charges.
>
> The idea of making several seperate rolls posted by Graham really is a
> good plan.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65016#65016
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Somebody got nauseated already? Wimp!
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plates
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> We could discuss (ad nauseam) whether you should cut clockwise or
> counter-clockwise.
>
> -- Craig
Message 34
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| Subject: | Inspection plates |
I Dave,
For my own flanging holes, in my spars and ribs, I tried to use a fly
cutter. This tool work fine with wood, but with metal it is more
difficult
do use, the tool jam all the time. Like other guys told you, manually
turn
the tool is better.
I don=92t know if you are equipped with air tool, I buy an Air Nibbler
tool
like those used in car industry. This tool is the best for that kind of
job,
I do a wood jig in plywood, a little bit wider than the hole targeted.
After, for file the edge, I use and 1 =BD inches diameter sand rubber
wheel, I
used it with a drill, I finishing smoothed edge with a multiple paper
sand
wheel.
Cut the hole with nibble take 30 seconds, sanding process 2-3 minutes
with
the 2 kind of wheel. Job perfectly done for the dye press tool.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/
_____
De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Dave
Ruddiman
Envoy=E9 : Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:44 PM
=C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com
Objet : Zenith-List: Inspection plates
I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in
the
center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press.
Just
clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and
use
cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a
very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There
must
be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really
expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Changed out gear plates on HDS |
Steve,
RE: Bungee gear
Please contact me direct at planejim@bellsouth.net . I don't want to
burden everyone else with all the gory details about the bungee gear on
the 600 and early 601. I've already shared this info with another lister
and I'll probably put you in touch with him also. Awaiting your direct
contact.
do not archive
Jim Hoak at planejim@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Hulland
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Zenith-List: Changed out gear plates on
HDS
Jim,
I have a CH 600 and believe the main gear is the same as the older
main gear in the 600. Interested in your modification as well as bungee
puller. Is there any way you can send me the details of your
modification and bungee puller? Even if they do not work, I expect they
will be very close and I can modify.
Recently received registration numbers and should be seeking a DAR
during late November if all goes well. They first flight in late
November or sometime in December.
The airplane was plans built. Started in 1985 by local folks, changed
hands a couple of times, including a tour with local EAA folks. I have
had it for a while and am getting very close to completion & flight.
Would like to make sure my gear is in the best condition possible and
will modify if necessary.
Leaving on a jet plane for Corpus Christi to attend a reunion with a
bunch of retired and active Marines Tues. morning. May not answer email'
after today, until my return on the 9th.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies
scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help
insure virus free email and attachments.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Continental 0-200 EGT CHT |
Clive,
I looked up the Continental 0-200-A (Do you have the A model?) Type
certificate data sheets from www.faa.gov. It at least has max CHT
temps.
Please see attachment.
Thanks,
~nick
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Zenith-List: Continental 0-200 EGT CHT
> From: "Clive Richards" <s.c.richards@homecall.co.uk>
> Date: Sun, October 01, 2006 3:03 am
> To: "zenith-list" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>
>
> Hi list
> do you have the max CHT & EGT recomended by manufacturer for the
Continental 0-200 as we have now fitted gauges, only had oil temperature before.
Any one flying with a 0-200 what are you getting ?
>
> Clive Richards
> For Ray Lasniers G CBDG
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | 12-hours etch to rinse to dry to primer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi Guys,
Im masking the fuselage on my 601HDS and thinking about the recommended
12-hour time limit between etch and prime. Its a lot of rinsed surface
to wipe dry, blow dry and be ready for primer in 12-hours compared to a
wing. Id ask the few who have painted a large aluminum surface what was
your drying time and is there a way to more efficiently rinse or dry all
that within a 12-hour period?
Larry McFarland - 601HDS (the last push in paint)
at www.macsmachine.com
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea |
Side Note: I ran a Bridgeport Mill, Southbend Lathe and a Reed surface
grinder in my garage with a 3 phase converter, one at a time of course,
you lose a little power but not enough to matter unless you are doing
real heavy work. The converter cost about $100.00 and runs on 220. By
the way, I really wish I still had my old machines.
Regards:
Clyde
601XL
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea
Debo-
I used a roller support and C-clamped a 2'x2' piece of plywood to
the drill press table. Then again, I'm lazy.
Speaking of drill presses, when did they do away with down locks?
Man, I miss my Bridgeport, but I live in an area that doesn't provide
240v 3 phase, so I'm SOL anyway.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. |
Hi Craig,
I had to reinstall my stab after my aircraft was transported this
summer. (I'm assuming that your rudder is removed as mine was)... I
did in fact find that the cutouts in the top rear skin had to be
enlarged slightly, both to allow me to drop the stab back into it's
original position on the brakets, and then to get my hand into that
small space to get the nuts back on... in fact, I think I resorted to
using a magnet or ball of tape on the end of a wrench to be able to
accomplish the nut replacement. It was harder than when I initially
built the plane - circa 1995-2001...
Grant
GHTF - 601HDs
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
=============
> Time: 05:31:16 PM PST US
> From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> I'm the third owner of my kit and the original builder (Jack
> Rentfrow) built
> all the sheet metal portions. For various reasons I'm replacing the
> rear top
> skin and am checking the fit of the horizontal stabilizer. I don't
> see how
> you can install the stab with the top rear skin in place. This kit
> was built
> from circa 1999-2000 plans.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Well, I was "smiling".
There are a lot of rivets on the plates on the fuse. In terms of shear
strength how does a 6/32 nut-plate riveted to the fuse compare to a plain
rivet? If it was designed this way from the beginning then the plates in the
stab would extend down far enough to bolt to the fuse instead of having
separate plates in the fuse and stab.
But I'm hoping for a simpler solution or at least an explanation of how it
worked for others. I'll send a question off to Mexico, MO but I don't expect
a definitive answer.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Not that I condone that reasoning but wouldn't it be easier to mount the
brackets with nutplates?
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Thanks for the feedback. The downside of removing rivets is that you will
> have to remove rivets whenever you need to remove the stab. That should be
> infrequent but for some reason it bugs me. Maybe I'll mount the entire top
> rear skin with nut-plates :-)
>
> -- Craig
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
Yes you can trim it, but the stick is so sensitive that you really can't swap hands
without some sort of jiggle. Also, the act of reaching across my body with
my left hand to operate the radios will shift my body and the pressure on the
stick. It's just a touchy affair.
If ATC calls you while your left hand is on the yoke, right hand on radio ... forget
what you were doing because trying to push on the TX button with left hand
is ridiculous. I lost track of how many times I pushed on the trim button instead
and put the plane in a dive.
The center stick is just plain annoying, period. I've gotten used to it, but still
don't like it.
p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote:
> The more obvious answer is that when the plane is properly trimmed up you should
be able to let go of the controls long enough to adjust the radios or write
something down. Is there some reason this doesn't work?
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65072#65072
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: AMD Zodiac??? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
Try the FAA registry: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftref_inquiry.asp
Search on AIRCRAFT MFG & DEVELOPMENT CO and 601. It will give you names and addresses
of people who have taken delivery.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65075#65075
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
And all this "switching hands" business assumes that you only need your
right hand in a non-emergency situation (trimmed, straight, level, etc).
Almost all the fuel selectors I have seen on XLs are on the center console.
So you stupidly run a tank dry in some critical situation - no problem! Just
reach across in front of the stick with your left hand to turn the selector.
Or just switch hands and reach around or over the center stick to the tank
selector. I know - use the same solution used in the throttle - dual fuel
selector valves. Hmm, no thanks. Having climbed in and out of 601s with dual
and center sticks I think I'll bolt on my dual sticks.
-- Craig
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: AMD Zodiac??? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Surfing AMD's web site you can pick up on the tail numbers of some of the
planes they are building or built. Look at the names of links and JPEG photo
files in their photo albums. Then search the FAA registry.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David X
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 4:37 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac???
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
Try the FAA registry:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftref_inquiry.asp
Search on AIRCRAFT MFG & DEVELOPMENT CO and 601. It will give you names and
addresses of people who have taken delivery.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65075#65075
Message 45
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| Subject: | Inspection plates |
Dave
I went thru the same thought process as you and ended up cutting them with
tin snips: they look fine and it went fast
Roger
701
Started on fuselage
Kenmore, WA
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plates
I am trying to make some round inspection hole covers with no hole in the
center. I have had some success using large hole saws on a drill press. Just
clamp everything down tight and put the drill press on slow speed and use
cutting oil. It kind of works but will start to grab easily. It leaves a
very rough edge. Then I smooth it down with a Scotchbrite wheel. There must
be a better way. These are 4 to 5 inch holes and the saws are really
expensive. I really don't want to cut them with tin snips.
Dave in Salem
801
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection plates |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Can I vote to cut the left side clockwise and the right side counter
clockwise ;-)
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Craig Payne
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:59 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plates
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> We could discuss (ad nauseam) whether you should cut clockwise or
> counter-clockwise.
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Edward Moody II
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:21 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plates
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
> <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Shame on you and a pox on your progeny for taking the simple
> approach. We're
> amatuer aeronautical engineers, by God!
>
> Ed Moody II
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:20 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plates
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
> >
> > Draw a circle on a scrap sheet and cut it out with snips.
> A little filing
>
> > and know one will know you did it by hand.
> >
> > Dan Dempsey
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
I thank everyone who replied to my question on the dual sticks .Lots of
comments on both styles .I am not at the point where I have to make up
my mind anytime soon .At present I still have not decided ,lots of pros
& cons .I think that as far as building is concerned I would prefer to
keep it simple as in the plans .As far flying I would probably feel more
at home with the dual sticks . Thanks again for your support . Wade
Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: dual sticks in 601XL
Hello group ,I have a question . Is it worth the effort to add dual
control sticks to this design .What are your thoughts pro & con on this
issue . Thanks Wade Jones
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: 701 seat belt attach-Zenith fix |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jetboy" <sanson.r@xtra.co.nz>
I studied the revised ZAC drawing to see how it may apply to my CZAW built airframe
as that has a drawing 7-F-16B dated 12/2002 showing the attach fitting (3)
with 7 rivets A5 (4 along upper edge and 3 spaced between them and along lower
edge)
This is noted as a change for BCAR 'S' compliance requirements
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65095#65095
Message 49
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| Subject: | It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
I sent this email to the Corvair Forum also:
Hi guys:
Today was a big day. I started my engine for the first time and performed my first
taxi test. Fantastic! Over three years of hard work and I now have something
that goes under it's own power. I uploaded three videos to YouTube.com
this evening. These are the first videos I've uploaded there so let me know if
they don't work for you.
William Wynne walked me through setting up the static timing over the phone a few
nights ago. He told me the engine would crank right up and it did! I'm using
the MA3 carburetor William recommended and the engine runs flawlessly. Craig
Payne sent me an MSD pulse generator that wraps around the coil wires and
it works just great with my Isspro tachometer. I removed my tooth-counter sensor
because it didn't work.
I built a temporary cooling cowl on William W's advice and it kept the engine nice
and cool during the testing today. Setting my Warp Drive prop was a snap
and it pulled the airframe down the street just fine.
Check these out on YouTube.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8UwsDphCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaPf7MG2b6g
The last one is still uploading.
Keep up the work guys it is completely worth it.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Omaha, Nebraska
601XL / Corvair
Message 50
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Hello all. Well I have never been happy with the Cessna type of push
pull throttle. I much prefer throttle levers, ( old habits hard to
break). Plus I feel you can get more precise control, there is a reason
you only see throttle levers in large aircraft. So I came up with a
design for the XL. Just got it hooked up today and really like it. I
still have some tweaking, but I am happy with the configuration. I
also have it designed so that when you push full throttle up for touch
and goes, go around, or take off, your left hand is close to the carb
heat, flaps, and boost pump. If you want to see the details check out
my web site.
Cheers
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Is it true that the seats have to be modified for the dual sticks? It wa my
impression that the dual sticks had been designed to fit the existing cabin
space (pardon my ignorance but I have not reached that point yet).
If so, does the modification also involve the seat upholstery?
If it does, will the upholstery option package from Zenith be dual stick
compatible or am I in a bind here?
Anyone been here and done that?
Ed Moody II
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
I wondered the same thing. I sat in Bob Archibald's XL (Dragonfly Aviation)
and ran the stick to all four extremes, shooting a movie with my digital
camera. It will hit the seat if pulled way back. But after flying the plane
I saw how sensitive the controls were. If you pulled the stick back a
quarter of that distance you would (with enough power) loop the plane.
The whole movie is 7.6 megabytes. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will
e-mail it to you.
-- Craig
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
I'd like a copy of that video please. Rog
_rmtnview@aol.com_ (mailto:rmtnview@aol.com)
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 10/1/2006 11:57:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
craig@craigandjean.com writes:
I wondered the same thing. I sat in Bob Archibald's XL (Dragonfly Aviation)
and ran the stick to all four extremes, shooting a movie with my digital
camera. It will hit the seat if pulled way back. But after flying the plane
I saw how sensitive the controls were. If you pulled the stick back a
quarter of that distance you would (with enough power) loop the plane.
The whole movie is 7.6 megabytes. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will
e-mail it to you.
-- Craig
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
I'm sending the movie in a second message. Hopefully it won't be rejected by
your mail server as too large. Let me know if you don't get it in 15-30
minutes.
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rmtnview@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL
I'd like a copy of that video please. Rog
rmtnview@aol.com
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 10/1/2006 11:57:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
craig@craigandjean.com writes:
I wondered the same thing. I sat in Bob Archibald's XL (Dragonfly Aviation)
and ran the stick to all four extremes, shooting a movie with my digital
camera. It will hit the seat if pulled way back. But after flying the plane
I saw how sensitive the controls were. If you pulled the stick back a
quarter of that distance you would (with enough power) loop the plane.
The whole movie is 7.6 megabytes. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will
e-mail it to you.
-- Craig
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos |
Scott,
Congrats on the run up
I sent you an email a few days ago asking if you could help me with my
engine mount .... I was curious as to if you ever got it? Would it be possible
to
give me a call tomorrow? Please give me an email I can reach you at.
Jeff
do not archive
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
The stick movement in actual flight is very small but to get full movement
the seat cusion needs to be relieved the same as an RV or other similar dual
stick aircraft.
Mike Sigman
N7092N
Message 57
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| Subject: | 601HD/HDS header tank in an XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Assuming I am mindful of the weight and balance can an HD header tank be
physically mounted in an XL? Is the outline of the firewall the same? I'm
looking for ways to extend my range without rebuilding my wings for the
extended range tanks or filling my right seat with a race car fuel cell.
I've played around with a W&B spreadsheet and it looks like the tank can be
full and the W&B still be in range.
-- Craig
Message 58
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|
| Subject: | Re: dual sticks in 601XL |
If you look through AMD's photo gallery you will see many pictures of
dual-stick planes they have built without cut-outs in the cushions.
www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/photo_gallery.html
-- Craig
Message 59
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|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
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3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "zenith-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 60
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
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