---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/02/06: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:31 AM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (Richard Cottingham) 2. 04:59 AM - RE : Throttle levers (Carlos Sa) 3. 06:54 AM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Edward Moody II) 4. 06:55 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Stephen R. Look) 5. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Robert L. Stone) 6. 08:21 AM - 701 seat belt attach points (george.mueller@aurora.org) 7. 09:33 AM - Re: Throttle levers (Matt & Jo) 8. 09:36 AM - Re: 701 seat belt attach points (Stanley Challgren) 9. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne) 10. 10:38 AM - HD/HDS header in XL (Jeff Small) 11. 11:59 AM - Bleeding Matco brakes (Geoff Heap) 12. 12:08 PM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (Gig Giacona) 13. 12:25 PM - Re: Bleeding Matco brakes (Phil Maxson) 14. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (N5SL) 15. 01:06 PM - Re: Bleeding Matco brakes (George Swinford) 16. 01:15 PM - Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Craig Payne) 17. 01:16 PM - 601 xl Tools and plans sold !! (Hudsonmusic1@aol.com) 18. 01:51 PM - Re: Bleeding Matco brakes (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 19. 02:34 PM - Re: Bleeding Matco brakes (Geoff Heap) 20. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Robert L. Stone) 21. 02:51 PM - Re: Bleeding Matco brakes (Bryan Martin) 22. 02:59 PM - Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 23. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne) 24. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL (Craig Payne) 25. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: dual sticks in 601XL () 26. 03:28 PM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (Jack Russell) 27. 03:37 PM - Re: right angle drill? (Noel Loveys) 28. 03:39 PM - Re: right angle drill? (cleonard52@comcast.net) 29. 03:43 PM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (Bill Naumuk) 30. 03:43 PM - Re: Bleeding Matco brakes (cleonard52@comcast.net) 31. 03:47 PM - Re: right angle drill? (Bill Naumuk) 32. 04:31 PM - Re: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea (Ron Lendon) 33. 04:39 PM - XL Trim (Stanley Challgren) 34. 05:16 PM - Re: XL Trim (Edward Moody II) 35. 05:37 PM - Re: XL Trim (Matt & Jo) 36. 05:43 PM - Re: XL Trim (Matt & Jo) 37. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Bleeding Matco brakes (Noel Loveys) 38. 06:10 PM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (leinad) 39. 07:05 PM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (Matt Stecher) 40. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (ALAN BEYER) 41. 09:11 PM - Grounding block (Rosalie DeMeo) 42. 09:24 PM - Re: Grounding block (nyterminat@aol.com) 43. 09:24 PM - Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (Dave Ruddiman) 44. 09:29 PM - Re: Grounding block (Jim and Lucy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:55 AM PST US From: "Richard Cottingham" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Cottingham" G'Day Mate, Congratulation Scott. Brilliant. What did the neighbours have to say about using the road? Again congratulations, a job very well done. Regards Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "N5SL" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Zenith-List: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos > > Check these out on YouTube.com > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8UwsDphCE > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaPf7MG2b6g > > The last one is still uploading. > > Keep up the work guys it is completely worth it. > > Scott Laughlin > www.cooknwithgas.com > Omaha, Nebraska > 601XL / Corvair ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:32 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Zenith-List: Throttle levers --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Very nice, Matt. How about elbow clearance? Cheers Carlos CH601-HD Montreal, Canada do not archive --- Matt & Jo a crit : > Hello all. Well I have never been happy with the Cessna type of push pull throttle. I much > prefer throttle levers, ( old habits hard to break). Plus I feel you can get more precise > control, there is a reason you only see throttle levers in large aircraft. So I came up with a > design for the XL. Just got it hooked up today and really like it. I still have some > tweaking, but I am happy with the configuration. I also have it designed so that when you > push full throttle up for touch and goes, go around, or take off, your left hand is close to > the carb heat, flaps, and boost pump. If you want to see the details check out my web site. > > Cheers > > Matt > > www.zodiacxl.com __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:30 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" Thanks to all who answered my dual stick question. It seems to me that I will be happy with the seats and the stick travel without any cut-outs. Ed ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:55 AM PST US From: "Stephen R. Look" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" I thought I would let the group know what I have discovered and keep somebody else from making the same mistake... The Dremel right angle adaptor will not work with a #20 drill bit. The largest collet available is 1/8" and is too small. The Dremel chuck that I got is also too small for a #20 bit. The Dremel flex attachment would have the same limitation. I bought a chuck-to-hex-drive accessory for $5 and have been using that with a skinny cordless screwdriver and that works fine but it's kind of slow. I went over to Harbor Frieght and their "close quarters" drill is far too large. I think an order to Tightfit Tools is coming up... Steve At 08:41 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > >I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the >trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a >recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? Steve Look Monticello, IL 601 XL - wing "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Craig, I would also like a copy of that movie. Bob Stone, Harker Herghts, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL >I wondered the same thing. I sat in Bob Archibald's XL (Dragonfly Aviation) > and ran the stick to all four extremes, shooting a movie with my digital > camera. It will hit the seat if pulled way back. But after flying the > plane > I saw how sensitive the controls were. If you pulled the stick back a > quarter of that distance you would (with enough power) loop the plane. > > The whole movie is 7.6 megabytes. If anyone wants it, let me know and I > will > e-mail it to you. > > -- Craig > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 seat belt attach points From: george.mueller@aurora.org Since I am in the process of installing 5 point Nascar type seat belts in my 701 I am following with interest the discussion of the anchor points on the seat tunnel. I was considering using the gear tunnel as an alternate anchor point as is being done by John B. However, if you look at the photos of Jon C's crash (thank you Jon for posting these on your website, they contain very interesting information on a 701's crashworthiness), you see that the main gear ended up several feet away from the rest of the aircraft. Depending on how you attached the anchor point to the gear tunnel, the departure of the main gear from the aircraft could give you a tummy ache. John B., does your attachment point allow the main gear to shear off without taking your attach point with it? One advantage to using a 5 point seatbelt is that the load is spread over 5 points instead of three, but I agree that the seat tunnel anchor point seems to need some beefing up. George N701GM Reserved Wiring Panel Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:46 AM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Throttle levers --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" When I sat in it and tried it out I really didn't have any problem. With the reclined position my left hand was at about my knee. Which is about the same position as my right hand on the stick. It actually feels fairly good. Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:58 AM Subject: RE : Zenith-List: Throttle levers > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Very nice, Matt. > > How about elbow clearance? > > Cheers > > Carlos > CH601-HD > Montreal, Canada > do not archive > --- Matt & Jo a crit : > >> Hello all. Well I have never been happy with the Cessna type of push >> pull throttle. I much >> prefer throttle levers, ( old habits hard to break). Plus I feel you can >> get more precise >> control, there is a reason you only see throttle levers in large >> aircraft. So I came up with a >> design for the XL. Just got it hooked up today and really like it. I >> still have some >> tweaking, but I am happy with the configuration. I also have it >> designed so that when you >> push full throttle up for touch and goes, go around, or take off, your >> left hand is close to >> the carb heat, flaps, and boost pump. If you want to see the details >> check out my web site. >> >> Cheers >> >> Matt >> >> www.zodiacxl.com > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:39 AM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 seat belt attach points George: Could you please give us info on how the 5 point Nascar type seat belts can be obtained. Stan 701 working on second wing On Oct 2, 2006, at 9:18 AM, george.mueller@aurora.org wrote: > > Since I am in the process of installing 5 point Nascar type seat > belts in my 701 I am following with interest the discussion of the > anchor points on the seat tunnel. I was considering using the gear > tunnel as an alternate anchor point as is being done by John B. > However, if you look at the photos of Jon C's crash (thank you Jon > for posting these on your website, they contain very interesting > information on a 701's crashworthiness), you see that the main gear > ended up several feet away from the rest of the aircraft. > Depending on how you attached the anchor point to the gear tunnel, > the departure of the main gear from the aircraft could give you a > tummy ache. John B., does your attachment point allow the main > gear to shear off without taking your attach point with it? > > One advantage to using a 5 point seatbelt is that the load is > spread over 5 points instead of three, but I agree that the seat > tunnel anchor point seems to need some beefing up. > > > George > N701GM Reserved > Wiring Panel > Milwaukee > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:06 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Bob, I sent you the movie in another message. Let me know if you don't receive it. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stone Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" --> Craig, I would also like a copy of that movie. Bob Stone, Harker Herghts, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL >I wondered the same thing. I sat in Bob Archibald's XL (Dragonfly Aviation) > and ran the stick to all four extremes, shooting a movie with my digital > camera. It will hit the seat if pulled way back. But after flying the > plane > I saw how sensitive the controls were. If you pulled the stick back a > quarter of that distance you would (with enough power) loop the plane. > > The whole movie is 7.6 megabytes. If anyone wants it, let me know and I > will > e-mail it to you. > > -- Craig > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:41 AM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: HD/HDS header in XL Craig, I don't see why it wouldn't work but the absolutely only way to answer this is to contact Nick or Roger. If the firewall dimensions have changed for the XL an HDS builder like me can only guess. Not to step on anyone's toes or to reopen the debate but I love my header tank, would not be without it. Were I to build another 601 I'd put one in; probably try to con Larry Mac into making me one. W&B might be toward the forward envelope if you're using a heavy engine - with Rotax or Jabiru it's no issue. tailwinds jeff do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Can anyone recomend the brake bleeder listed in Aircraft Spruce. It's listed for $59.95. Any comments appreciated. Tkanks....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65259#65259 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" So have you been able to wipe the smile off your face yet? nfivesl(at)yahoo.com wrote: > I sent this email to the Corvair Forum also: > > Hi guys: > > Today was a big day. I started my engine for the first time and performed my first taxi test. Fantastic! Over three years of hard work and I now have something that goes under it's own power. I uploaded three videos to YouTube.com this evening. These are the first videos I've uploaded there so let me know if they don't work for you. > > William Wynne walked me through setting up the static timing over the phone a few nights ago. He told me the engine would crank right up and it did! I'm using the MA3 carburetor William recommended and the engine runs flawlessly. Craig Payne sent me an MSD pulse generator that wraps around the coil wires and it works just great with my Isspro tachometer. I removed my tooth-counter sensor because it didn't work. > > I built a temporary cooling cowl on William W's advice and it kept the engine nice and cool during the testing today. Setting my Warp Drive prop was a snap and it pulled the airframe down the street just fine. > > Check these out on YouTube.com > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8UwsDphCE > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaPf7MG2b6g > > The last one is still uploading. > > Keep up the work guys it is completely worth it. > > Scott Laughlin > www.cooknwithgas.com > Omaha, Nebraska > 601XL / Corvair -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65262#65262 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:13 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes I used a squeeze bottle from the local craft store, with a nylon hose betwe en the bottle and the bleader valve to force in the fluid from the bottom. No bleeding required since the air escapes from the top of the system. Bo ttle cost me something like $1.50.Phil Maxson601XL/CorvairNorthwest New Jer sey > Subject: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes> > --> Zenith-List message po sted by: "Geoff Heap" > > Can anyone recomend the brake bleeder listed in Aircraft Spruce. It's listed for $59.95. Any comments ap preciated. Tkanks....Geoff _________________________________________________________________ Stay connected with the news, people, places and online services that matte r to you on Live.com http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx?icid=T001MSN30A0701 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:33 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Not just yet. It was quite a rush! I think I'll take it for a spin when I get home today from work. When are you going to join me Gig? Scott Laughlin DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ---- From: Gig Giacona Sent: Monday, October 2, 2006 2:08:13 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" So have you been able to wipe the smile off your face yet? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:21 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes I used to use a pump-type oil can to bleed the brakes on my Ercoupe, and plan to do the same on my HD (if I ever get it finished). Same technique, forcing the fluid up from the bleeder fitting at the wheel. George ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Maxson To: Geoff Heap Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes I used a squeeze bottle from the local craft store, with a nylon hose between the bottle and the bleader valve to force in the fluid from the bottom. No bleeding required since the air escapes from the top of the system. Bottle cost me something like $1.50. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > Subject: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > > Can anyone recomend the brake bleeder listed in Aircraft Spruce. It's listed for $59.95. Any comments appreciated. Tkanks....Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Stay connected with the news, people, places and online services that matter to you on Live.com Try it! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 10/1/2006 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:28 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. This is what Zenith had to say about my problem. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: Nick Heintz [mailto:zenithairnh@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:58 AM Subject: RE: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. You are right, on the Zodiac, the stabilizer cannot be removed without removing one of the HT attachment brackets 6B1-9 or 6B1-8. That attached photos is what one builder did to modify the aft cutout in the rear top skin 6B21-5. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:55 PM PST US From: Hudsonmusic1@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 xl Tools and plans sold !! Tools and plans are sold to Dave Miller. Thanks Dave and good luck. Jeff ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:26 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes Geoff, I used an empty Grecian Formula Hair Color plastic bottle. The little tubing fit perfectly over the nipple and a plastic tie secured it. One long squeeze and it filled easily. Best if Luck, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bleeding Matco brakes From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" I did'nt realise it could be that easy. Thanks guys....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65289#65289 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Craig, I just watched it. Your instrument panel looks great. I noticed some switches on top of the stick, are these for trim? Someone on the net advised me to install aileron trim because the ZodiacXL is so light a passenger makes a big difference so I am going to do that and will also have two switches on top of the stick. One for aileron trim and the other for elevator trim. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:33 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > Bob, I sent you the movie in another message. Let me know if you don't > receive it. > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. > Stone > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:36 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" > --> > > Craig, > I would also like a copy of that movie. > > Bob Stone, Harker Herghts, Tx > ZodiacXL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Payne" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:54 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL > > >>I wondered the same thing. I sat in Bob Archibald's XL (Dragonfly >>Aviation) >> and ran the stick to all four extremes, shooting a movie with my digital >> camera. It will hit the seat if pulled way back. But after flying the >> plane >> I saw how sensitive the controls were. If you pulled the stick back a >> quarter of that distance you would (with enough power) loop the plane. >> >> The whole movie is 7.6 megabytes. If anyone wants it, let me know and I >> will >> e-mail it to you. >> >> -- Craig >> > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:50 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin Completely unecesary. Just use a squeeze bottle or a small oil can to force the fluid in from the bottom with the cap off the master cylinder. Put some rags on the floor around the master to catch any spillage. Geoff Heap wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > > Can anyone recomend the brake bleeder listed in Aircraft Spruce. It's listed for $59.95. Any comments appreciated. Tkanks....Geoff > > > Bryan Martin ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:08 PM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. I've wondered, too, about mounting the stab after the top rear skin has been riveted. The mod in the pictures looks pretty slick. A really neat solution would be for Zenith to redesign the fiberglass piece that fits on top of the stab under the leading edge of the rudder. Is there any reason why it couldn't extend all the way up to the rear bulkhead? Dave Harms 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:38 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Whoops - like I said this is Bob Archibald's 601XL (N601BA) at Dragonfly Aviation: http://dragonflyaviation.com. If you can get to Santa Rosa in northern California you can take flight instruction in this plane. And Michael Heinz's Quality Sport Planes is a half an hour up the road in Cloverdale: www.qualitysportplanes.com/. For anyone else who wants to see the movie it is now on line courtesy of Bob Tezyk: www.eaglesnestestates.org/cpmovie/MVI_4059.AVI - THIS IS AN 8 MEGABYTE FILE! -- Craig ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:45 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Oh, and to answer your question - yes the switches are four-way trim, PTT and transponder "ident". Bob is an ex-fighter pilot. So he reserves the trigger switch on the stick for the machine guns. For nice sticks with a four-way "hat" switch look at Ray Allen's web site: http://www.rayallencompany.com/ -- Craig ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:15 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: If you really want the HOTAS setup, Ray Allen Co. sells a stick grip that has four trim buttons and two more swithes which can be used to activate a relay that would operate the flap motor. Not sure if I will get quite that G-Whiz but I will definitely use the aileron and elevator switches on the grip. I have elevator trim on my ultra not so light with the controls on the stick... very handy. If you use a two place intercom, you can get a simpler stick grip for the right seat that has only PTT (also from Ray Allen Co.) . You also have the choice of a "hat"switch for the aileron and elevator trim. Some of the glass panel units will display the trim setting and save you the trouble of locating and mounting the trim indicators. Ed Moody II ---- "Robert L. Stone" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" > > Craig, > I just watched it. Your instrument panel looks great. I noticed some > switches on top of the stick, are these for trim? Someone on the net > advised me to install aileron trim because the ZodiacXL is so light a > passenger makes a big difference so I am going to do that and will also have > two switches on top of the stick. One for aileron trim and the other for > elevator trim. > > Bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Payne" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:33 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > > Bob, I sent you the movie in another message. Let me know if you don't > > receive it. > > > > -- Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. > > Stone > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:36 AM > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" > > --> > > > > Craig, > > I would also like a copy of that movie. > > > > Bob Stone, Harker Herghts, Tx > > ZodiacXL > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Craig Payne" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:54 PM > > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual sticks in 601XL > > > > > >>I wondered the same thing. I sat in Bob Archibald's XL (Dragonfly > >>Aviation) > >> and ran the stick to all four extremes, shooting a movie with my digital > >> camera. It will hit the seat if pulled way back. But after flying the > >> plane > >> I saw how sensitive the controls were. If you pulled the stick back a > >> quarter of that distance you would (with enough power) loop the plane. > >> > >> The whole movie is 7.6 megabytes. If anyone wants it, let me know and I > >> will > >> e-mail it to you. > >> > >> -- Craig > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:13 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos Scott; That was fun! Its milestones like this that makes you want to get it done! Don't forget to put the wings on before you get too fast. jack in Los Osos ca N5SL wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL I sent this email to the Corvair Forum also: Hi guys: Today was a big day. I started my engine for the first time and performed my first taxi test. Fantastic! Over three years of hard work and I now have something that goes under it's own power. I uploaded three videos to YouTube.com this evening. These are the first videos I've uploaded there so let me know if they don't work for you. William Wynne walked me through setting up the static timing over the phone a few nights ago. He told me the engine would crank right up and it did! I'm using the MA3 carburetor William recommended and the engine runs flawlessly. Craig Payne sent me an MSD pulse generator that wraps around the coil wires and it works just great with my Isspro tachometer. I removed my tooth-counter sensor because it didn't work. I built a temporary cooling cowl on William W's advice and it kept the engine nice and cool during the testing today. Setting my Warp Drive prop was a snap and it pulled the airframe down the street just fine. Check these out on YouTube.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8UwsDphCE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaPf7MG2b6g The last one is still uploading. Keep up the work guys it is completely worth it. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Omaha, Nebraska 601XL / Corvair ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:45 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" I'd try turning down the shank of the drill bit. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Stephen R. Look > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:26 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > I thought I would let the group know what I have discovered and keep > somebody else from making the same mistake... > > The Dremel right angle adaptor will not work with a #20 drill bit. > The largest collet available is 1/8" and is too small. The Dremel > chuck that I got is also too small for a #20 bit. The Dremel flex > attachment would have the same limitation. > > I bought a chuck-to-hex-drive accessory for $5 and have been using > that with a skinny cordless screwdriver and that works fine but it's > kind of slow. > > I went over to Harbor Frieght and their "close quarters" drill is far > too large. > > I think an order to Tightfit Tools is coming up... > > Steve > > > At 08:41 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > > > >I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the > >trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a > >recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? > > Steve Look > Monticello, IL > 601 XL - wing > "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:22 PM PST US From: cleonard52@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? TRY AN AIR DRILL, MOST ARE VERY NARROW. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Stephen R. Look" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > I thought I would let the group know what I have discovered and keep > somebody else from making the same mistake... > > The Dremel right angle adaptor will not work with a #20 drill bit. > The largest collet available is 1/8" and is too small. The Dremel > chuck that I got is also too small for a #20 bit. The Dremel flex > attachment would have the same limitation. > > I bought a chuck-to-hex-drive accessory for $5 and have been using > that with a skinny cordless screwdriver and that works fine but it's > kind of slow. > > I went over to Harbor Frieght and their "close quarters" drill is far > too large. > > I think an order to Tightfit Tools is coming up... > > Steve > > > At 08:41 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > > >I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the > >trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a > >recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? > > Steve Look > Monticello, IL > 601 XL - wing > "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > > > >
TRY AN AIR DRILL, MOST ARE VERY NARROW.
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Stephen R. Look" <slook@mchsi.com>

> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look"
>
> I thought I would let the group know what I have discovered and keep
> somebody else from making the same mistake...
>
> The Dremel right angle adaptor will not work with a #20 drill bit.
> The largest collet available is 1/8" and is too small. The Dremel
> chuck that I got is also too small for a #20 bit. The Dremel flex
> attachment would have the same limitation.
>
> I bought a chuck-to-hex-drive accessory for $5 and have been using
> that with a skinny cordless screwdriver and that works fine but it's
> kind of slow.
>
> I went over to Harbor Frieght and their "close quarters" drill is far
> too l arge. much m
________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:15 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Congratulations. I suppose the obvious question is, how much paint is left on the truck! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "N5SL" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > I sent this email to the Corvair Forum also: > > Hi guys: > > Today was a big day. I started my engine for the first time and performed > my first taxi test. > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:29 PM PST US From: cleonard52@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bleeding Matco brakes ALL YOU NEED IS A SMALL $5 OIL CAN. THEN FOLLOW ZAC'S INSTRUCTIONS, WORKS GREAT. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Geoff Heap" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > > Can anyone recomend the brake bleeder listed in Aircraft Spruce. It's listed for > $59.95. Any comments appreciated. Tkanks....Geoff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65259#65259 > > > > > > > > > >
ALL YOU NEED IS A SMALL $5 OIL CAN. THEN FOLLOW ZAC'S INSTRUCTIONS, WORKS GREAT.
 
h much
________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:06 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Depends on where the hole you need is located, but I couldn't find a suitable right angle drill, either. Went with the HF version of a Whitney punch. They had an extra deep throat (We won't even go there) on sale a couple of weeks ago that wound up costing me $12.95 after all the coupons. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen R. Look" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > > I thought I would let the group know what I have discovered and keep > somebody else from making the same mistake... > > The Dremel right angle adaptor will not work with a #20 drill bit. The > largest collet available is 1/8" and is too small. The Dremel chuck that I > got is also too small for a #20 bit. The Dremel flex attachment would have > the same limitation. > > I bought a chuck-to-hex-drive accessory for $5 and have been using that > with a skinny cordless screwdriver and that works fine but it's kind of > slow. > > I went over to Harbor Frieght and their "close quarters" drill is far too > large. > > I think an order to Tightfit Tools is coming up... > > Steve > > > At 08:41 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" >> >>I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the >>trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a >>recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? > > Steve Look > Monticello, IL > 601 XL - wing > "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scratchbuilders - Spar Cap Drilling Idea From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" I did a little thinking here also, and figured the work table is real flat and stationary. Now what would be an easy way to move the part past the drill press? Here is what I did. Out came the router and I cut two long groves the length of the table. These are so the clecos don't snag when moving the parts. Next the visqueen goes on the table then the part goes on top of that. It slides real smooth and doesn't leave scratches. After hand drilling a few holes to get the Rear Spar Caps clecoed in position, the Web is the drill template, position and square up the drill press. The drill press bed is cranked up to touch the lower beam of my work table. Helps steady the whole setup. I placed a 1" piece of black rubber on the movable drill press table and cranked it up and locked it in place, then check for movement and squareness. Had to try a few shims and a C-Clamp but it is square and stable. I just used enough up pressure to compress the rubber a little and not lift the work table. In a top from a squeeze bottle add some Tap Magic, dip drill bit before drilling each hole. I should be able to match drill everything as a stack with this setup. All the pilot holes are in the webs and spar caps for the wings. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65326#65326 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/clecogrooves_189.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/drillpress_108.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tapmagic_731.jpeg ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:57 PM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Zenith-List: XL Trim --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren I noticed some switches on top of the stick, are these for trim? Someone on the net advised me to install aileron trim because the ZodiacXL is so light a passenger makes a big difference so I am going to do that and will also have two switches on top of the stick. One for aileron trim and the other for elevator trim. Bob A comment on the above Bob: I considered putting the trim on top of the stick but decided against it. I put the Transmit button there instead and found I frequently hit it when not intending to do so. So I ended up broadcasting when not intending to but that was better than retrimming the plane when not intending to do so. I think that you will find that the number of times you have to retrim are just after takeoff and just before landing. I think the trim is a necessity but you do not use it that often. Just a thought. Stan 601 HDS (sold it & building 701) ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:22 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Trim --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" Stan and Bob, The Ray Allen grips that feature trim switched on the top of the stick use very low profile buttons for the trim. They are not going to get accidentally activated unless you develope a habit of flying with your palm on top of the stick (that's a dapper look for a walking cane but not a normal practice inflight). The PTT is on the front of the stick where it can be accidentally activated. You have to develop the habit of gripping the stick with the contoured foam grip in the palm of your hand. If you hold it there you have to deliberately move your "trigger finger" up to activate the PTT. I have 200 hours flying with that type of grip and it isn't a problem at all. A "stuck transmit button" light on the intercom is a good safety against flying with the PTT mashed down. Ed > A comment on the above Bob: I considered putting the trim on top of the > stick but decided against it. I put the Transmit button there instead > and found I frequently hit it when not intending to do so. So I ended up > broadcasting when not intending to but that was better than retrimming > the plane when not intending to do so. I think that you will find that > the number of times you have to retrim are just after takeoff and just > before landing. I think the trim is a necessity but you do not use it > that often. > > Just a thought. > > Stan > 601 HDS (sold it & building 701) ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:18 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Trim --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley Challgren" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: XL Trim > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren > > I noticed some switches on top of the stick, are these for trim? > Someone on the net advised me to install aileron trim because the > ZodiacXL is so light a passenger makes a big difference so I am going > to do that and will also have two switches on top of the stick. One > for aileron trim and the other for elevator trim. > > Bob > > A comment on the above Bob: I considered putting the trim on top of > the stick but decided against it. I put the Transmit button there > instead and found I frequently hit it when not intending to do so. > So I ended up broadcasting when not intending to but that was better > than retrimming the plane when not intending to do so. I think that > you will find that the number of times you have to retrim are just > after takeoff and just before landing. I think the trim is a > necessity but you do not use it that often. > > Just a thought. > > Stan > 601 HDS (sold it & building 701) > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:27 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Trim --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" I made grips out of walnut and maple. (www.zodiacxl.com in the grips section) I installed a 4 way switch on top and a transmit button on the front so that my index can hit the PTT and thumb trim. When I fly I trim all of the time. When instructing I tell folks that trimming is like breathing. After a while you don't even think about it. Of course this is much more critical in a high performance aircraft. But a good habit to get into. Cheers Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley Challgren" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: XL Trim > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren > > I noticed some switches on top of the stick, are these for trim? > Someone on the net advised me to install aileron trim because the > ZodiacXL is so light a passenger makes a big difference so I am going to > do that and will also have two switches on top of the stick. One for > aileron trim and the other for elevator trim. > > Bob > > A comment on the above Bob: I considered putting the trim on top of the > stick but decided against it. I put the Transmit button there instead > and found I frequently hit it when not intending to do so. So I ended up > broadcasting when not intending to but that was better than retrimming > the plane when not intending to do so. I think that you will find that > the number of times you have to retrim are just after takeoff and just > before landing. I think the trim is a necessity but you do not use it > that often. > > Just a thought. > > Stan > 601 HDS (sold it & building 701) > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:08 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Bleeding Matco brakes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" I use the same procedure to bleed car brakes single handed. Needs a bit more fluid though and you have to be careful the bleeder is completely clean. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Geoff Heap > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:04 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bleeding Matco brakes > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > > I did'nt realise it could be that easy. Thanks guys....Geoff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65289#65289 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:58 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos From: "leinad" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" Scott, As always, you're an inspiration! Thanks for video. Dan Dempsey Do not archive -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65362#65362 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:45 PM PST US From: "Matt Stecher" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" Scott, That is so cool! I can't stop thinking about how it will feel when I have my plane to that point. Its also great to hear that another Corvair will by flying soon. Or at least sooner than mine. I am at the beginning of this great adventure. My 65 engine has been completely torn down and I bought my first batch of sheet today. Now I just need to finish our bathroom remodel and I can really get started. That is a promise I am having a hard time keeping. :o) Thanks to for helping me believe that even I can build and fly my own plane. Keep it up. Thanks, Matt XL Tail & Corvair ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:25 PM PST US From: ALAN BEYER Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Hi Guys, I have been reading all the coments about installing the Stab. For your information, I have had my HDS in the air for about 2 years. I have a tight fit of the rear skin and the Stab. and have had the Stab. on and off a few times with no problems. A friend of mine just finished his HD and we put it together at the airport. We installed the Stab. with out any problems also. If you would like some pictures of both the HD and the HDS I could take some when I get to the airport in the next few days. AL from Oshkosh Craig Payne wrote: This is what Zenith had to say about my problem. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: Nick Heintz [mailto:zenithairnh@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:58 AM Subject: RE: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. You are right, on the Zodiac, the stabilizer cannot be removed without removing one of the HT attachment brackets 6B1-9 or 6B1-8. That attached photos is what one builder did to modify the aft cutout in the rear top skin 6B21-5. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:39 PM PST US From: Rosalie DeMeo Subject: Zenith-List: Grounding block --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo Hello, I'm new here. I've started a 601xl QBK (May 2, 2006) and have the engine on - a Jabiru 3300. I'm getting close to wiring up a lot of things and need to find a good block of ground studs or terminals for grounding stuff in the engine compartment and the cockpit. Does anyone know where I can find a grounding block with 20 or so terminals for sale, or plans to make one? I like reading the postings. They are very helpful. Brad DeMeo ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Grounding block From: nyterminat@aol.com Brad, Try http://www.bandcspecialty.com they have what you want. Bob Spudis N701ZX CH701/912S -----Original Message----- From: rosestar@sonic.net Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Grounding block --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo Hello, I'm new here. I've started a 601xl QBK (May 2, 2006) and have the engine on - a Jabiru 3300. I'm getting close to wiring up a lot of things and need to find a good block of ground studs or terminals for grounding stuff in the engine compartment and the cockpit. Does anyone know where I can find a grounding block with 20 or so terminals for sale, or plans to make one? I like reading the postings. They are very helpful. Brad DeMeo ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:26 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! JOHN MCCAIN'S REMARKS ABOUT THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE!!! (CHECKED THIS OUT THRU TRUTH AND FICTION, THIS IS TRUE!) ___________________________________________________ In light of the recent appeals court ruling in California, with respect to the Pledge of Allegiance, the following recollection from Senator John McCain is very appropriate: "The Pledge of Allegiance" - by Senator John McCain As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room. This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans onbehalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home. One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian. Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School Then he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967. Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this country and our military provide for people who want to work and want to succeed. As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing. Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed on the inside of his shirt. Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event. One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it. That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all of us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We cleaned him up as well as we could. The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room. As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes almost shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag. He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to Pledge our allegiance to our flag and country. So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world. You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- PASS THIS ON... and on... and on! You can even send it back to me, I don't mind, because its worth reading again ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:35 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Grounding block --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy B & C Specialty Products Inc 123 East 4th PO Box B Newton, KS 67114 US 316-283-8000 Fax: 316-283-7400 Firewall ground block http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218 Does anyone know where I can find a grounding block with 20 or so terminals for sale, or plans to make one? I like reading the postings. They are very helpful. >Brad DeMeo