---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/03/06: 60 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:12 AM - FWF kit for Jabiru (Dave Johnson) 2. 03:45 AM - Re: right angle drill? (Hunt Malcolm) 3. 05:46 AM - Seat belt attach (John Bolding) 4. 05:48 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Craig Payne) 5. 06:03 AM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (Robert L. Stone) 6. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Russell J.) 7. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Jim Hoak) 8. 06:30 AM - Re: Seat belt attach (LRM) 9. 06:51 AM - 5 point seat belts (george.mueller@aurora.org) 10. 07:21 AM - N329F Update (Jim Fosse) 11. 07:28 AM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (Dave Ruddiman) 12. 07:33 AM - Re: Grounding block (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 13. 07:54 AM - Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (vozzen) 14. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Craig Payne) 15. 08:12 AM - Re: Grounding block (Noel Loveys) 16. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (LarryMcFarland) 17. 09:03 AM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (RClaggf4u@aol.com) 18. 09:21 AM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (Craig Payne) 19. 09:29 AM - Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos (Ron Lendon) 20. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (Craig Payne) 21. 09:43 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (ALAN BEYER) 22. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. () 23. 10:15 AM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (Robert L. Stone) 24. 10:33 AM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (RClaggf4u@aol.com) 25. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. (JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM) 26. 10:47 AM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (ron wehba) 27. 10:49 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Stanley Challgren) 28. 10:59 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Craig Payne) 29. 11:05 AM - Re: Grounding Block (fred sanford) 30. 11:53 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (neitzel) 31. 12:57 PM - Re: Seat belt attach (John Marzulli) 32. 01:39 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Pete Krotje) 33. 01:50 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Paul Mulwitz) 34. 01:57 PM - Re: N329F Update (n801bh@netzero.com) 35. 02:06 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru () 36. 02:29 PM - vortex generators (James MacDonald) 37. 02:35 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Craig Payne) 38. 02:54 PM - Re: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (James Ferris) 39. 03:26 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru () 40. 03:29 PM - Vortex Generator? (Zed Smith) 41. 03:33 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Matt & Jo) 42. 03:43 PM - Leak test for fuel tanks. (Dave Ruddiman) 43. 04:00 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Randy) 44. 04:04 PM - Re: Leak test for fuel tanks. (Craig Payne) 45. 04:41 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Gerald A. Applefeld VMD) 46. 04:42 PM - Re: Leak test for fuel tanks. () 47. 04:59 PM - The panel in the stick movement movie (Craig Payne) 48. 05:02 PM - Re: Leak test for fuel tanks. (JOHN STARN) 49. 05:08 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Craig Payne) 50. 05:53 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (ALAN BEYER) 51. 06:13 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Mike) 52. 06:23 PM - Leak test for fuel tanks. (JOHN STARN) 53. 06:32 PM - Horizontal Stab. (ALAN BEYER) 54. 06:48 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (George Tamvakis) 55. 06:49 PM - Removing small dent/crease (Todd Osborne) 56. 07:13 PM - Re: Removing small dent/crease (Tim Juhl) 57. 07:53 PM - Re: 5 point seat belts (Dave Ruddiman) 58. 08:11 PM - the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (Zodie Rocket) 59. 08:57 PM - 801 Fuel Tanks (Dave Ruddiman) 60. 09:42 PM - Pictures of factory HD/HDS 16 gallon header tank? (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:13 AM PST US From: "Dave Johnson" Subject: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Does anyone know of a FWF kit for the 601XL and Jabiru, other than the usjabiru kit? My reason for asking is that I contacted usjabiru about their kit about a month ago and eventually got a reply and quote saying they would get back to me with shipping costs. I have heard nothing since and no reply to several e-mails, which I know they got, as I had the acknowledgement from Outlook. If thats the way they deal with prospective customers, what hope is there for support post-sales? Dave Johnson ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: right angle drill? From: "Hunt Malcolm" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" Steve I heated the top 1" of the stock of the #20 drill to remove the temper and reduced it to 1/8" in the lathe - it now fits the Dremel, works a treat for me! Best regards Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder England -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen R. Look Sent: 02 October 2006 14:56 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: right angle drill? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" I thought I would let the group know what I have discovered and keep somebody else from making the same mistake... The Dremel right angle adaptor will not work with a #20 drill bit. The largest collet available is 1/8" and is too small. The Dremel chuck that I got is also too small for a #20 bit. The Dremel flex attachment would have the same limitation. I bought a chuck-to-hex-drive accessory for $5 and have been using that with a skinny cordless screwdriver and that works fine but it's kind of slow. I went over to Harbor Frieght and their "close quarters" drill is far too large. I think an order to Tightfit Tools is coming up... Steve At 08:41 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > >I'm ready to drill the front rib attachments on my wing spar but the >trusty DeWalt cordless is too big to do the job. Does anyone have a >recommendation for an electric drill small enough to get in there? Steve Look Monticello, IL 601 XL - wing "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:43 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Seat belt attach --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 seat belt attach points > From: george.mueller@aurora.org > Since I am in the process of installing 5 point Nascar type seat belts in > my 701 I am following with interest the discussion of the anchor points > on the seat tunnel. I was considering using the gear tunnel as an > alternate anchor point as is being done by John B. However, if you look > at the photos of Jon C's crash (thank you Jon for posting these on your > website, they contain very interesting information on a 701's > crashworthiness), you see that the main gear ended up several feet away > from the rest of the aircraft. Depending on how you attached the anchor > point to the gear tunnel, the departure of the main gear from the aircraft > could give you a tummy ache. John B., does your attachment point allow > the main gear to shear off without taking your attach point with it? George Good point, you can't change something and always come out for the better if you don't do your homework. You COULD make things worse. I saw the gear leg departure as well and for that reason the new fittings will not interfere with the leg leaving the tunnel. As long as we are discussing Jon's photos that he graciously shared , please note the side of the fuselage where the shoulder harness attaches. It is crumpled and pulled inward what appears to be several inches, this in my mind would facilitate a slack belt but I'm tackling one thing at a time so to keep the domino effect down to a dull roar. I'm probably gonna use a 4 point as that's what I've used on my other homebuilts and it kept me outta the panel before. You are correct, the more points you have the lower the load on any one point. There just aren't that many good places to attach. As long as we are discussing Jon's mishap, (Jon, don't you wish we'd leave you alone) the gear departure brought up another point that I had wondered about since I first saw the plans. The gear is attached with 4 bolts that are ground away 50% and then welded to the attach fitting. Neither of those operations are conducive to maintaining high strength. Not suggesting a problem , just talking out loud. Another way to skin that rabbit is to weld a short piece of bushing stock( with same ID as the bolt OD) to the plate and drop in a virgin bolt to hold the gear. I guess it can be argued either way . My preference would be to keep as many of the big pieces attached for as long as possible to help dissipate energy, rather than my tender,pink, handsome body. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:36 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Try Jim at Jabiru Pacific: 559-431-1701 jim@jabirupacific.com http://www.jabirupacific.com/ -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:11 AM Subject: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Does anyone know of a FWF kit for the 601XL and Jabiru, other than the usjabiru kit? My reason for asking is that I contacted usjabiru about their kit about a month ago and eventually got a reply and quote saying they would get back to me with shipping costs. I have heard nothing since and no reply to several e-mails, which I know they got, as I had the acknowledgement from Outlook. If thats the way they deal with prospective customers, what hope is there for support post-sales? Dave Johnson ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! I am sure that some members of this net will object to this message because it has nothing to do with building Zenith airplanes. I for one am glad Dave put this on the net even if it is against the rules. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Ruddiman To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! JOHN MCCAIN'S REMARKS ABOUT THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE!!! (CHECKED THIS OUT THRU TRUTH AND FICTION, THIS IS TRUE!) ___________________________________________________ In light of the recent appeals court ruling in California, with respect to the Pledge of Allegiance, the following recollection from Senator John McCain is very appropriate: "The Pledge of Allegiance" - by Senator John McCain As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room. This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans onbehalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home. One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian. Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School Then he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967. Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this country and our military provide for people who want to work and want to succeed. As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing. Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed on the inside of his shirt. Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event. One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it. That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all of us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We cleaned him up as well as we could. The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room. As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes almost shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag. He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to Pledge our allegiance to our flag and country. So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world. You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- PASS THIS ON... and on... and on! You can even send it back to me, I don't mind, because its worth reading again ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:04 AM PST US From: "Russell J." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. I've wondered, too, about mounting the stab after the top rear skin has been riveted. Dave Harms 601XL/Corvair +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ By notching the top fuse skin, the horizontal stab can be installed later. As shown in the attached photo, make a cardboard template before cutting metal. R. Johnson 601-HDS / Corvair (putting the engine together) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:57 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. I agree with Al. It has been some time since I installed the Horiz. Stab. on my 601HD but I don't remember it being a problem. The upper aft skin was installed, all the attach brackets had been installed and the fuselage had been painted as well as the stab. I have a close fit at the cutouts too. I don't understand the installation problem? do not archive Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: ALAN BEYER To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Hi Guys, I have been reading all the coments about installing the Stab. For your information, I have had my HDS in the air for about 2 years. I have a tight fit of the rear skin and the Stab. and have had the Stab. on and off a few times with no problems. A friend of mine just finished his HD and we put it together at the airport. We installed the Stab. with out any problems also. If you would like some pictures of both the HD and the HDS I could take some when I get to the airport in the next few days. AL from Oshkosh Craig Payne wrote: This is what Zenith had to say about my problem. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: Nick Heintz [mailto:zenithairnh@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:58 AM To: 'Craig Payne' Subject: RE: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. You are right, on the Zodiac, the stabilizer cannot be removed without removing one of the HT attachment brackets 6B1-9 or 6B1-8. That attached photos is what one builder did to modify the aft cutout in the rear top skin 6B21-5. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:39 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Seat belt attach --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" I haven't been following this discussion about the belts, just happened to read this last one. So, I thought I would tell how I did mine. I also use a four point system. Bolting the belts at each lower side of the seat wasn't a problem, I used the standard Zenith attach points. It was the inside bolt on the top that offered a little challenge. I made a "T" bar out of 1/8' X 3" aluminum flat stock where one piece ran across the entire width of the luggage compartment and the "T" joined it in the center then went to the back of the compartment and I bent it up to hook around the end. It's all riveted and bolted under the compartment. The outside top belt bolts down next to the cabin wall and the inside bolts down thru the compartment and the flat stock near the "T". I did away with the upper Zenith attach point. Got my belts from Summit Racing. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bolding" Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Seat belt attach > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" > > > > Subject: Zenith-List: 701 seat belt attach points >> From: george.mueller@aurora.org >> Since I am in the process of installing 5 point Nascar type seat belts in >> my 701 I am following with interest the discussion of the anchor points >> on the seat tunnel. I was considering using the gear tunnel as an >> alternate anchor point as is being done by John B. However, if you look >> at the photos of Jon C's crash (thank you Jon for posting these on your >> website, they contain very interesting information on a 701's >> crashworthiness), you see that the main gear ended up several feet away >> from the rest of the aircraft. Depending on how you attached the anchor >> point to the gear tunnel, the departure of the main gear from the >> aircraft >> could give you a tummy ache. John B., does your attachment point allow >> the main gear to shear off without taking your attach point with it? > > George > Good point, you can't change something and always come out > for the better if you don't do your homework. You COULD make things worse. > I saw the gear leg departure as well and for that reason the new fittings > will > not interfere with the leg leaving the tunnel. > As long as we are discussing Jon's photos that he graciously shared , > please note the side of the fuselage where the shoulder harness attaches. > It is crumpled and pulled inward what appears to be several inches, this > in my mind would facilitate a slack belt but I'm tackling one thing at a > time so to keep the domino effect down to a dull roar. I'm probably gonna > use a 4 point as that's what I've used on my other homebuilts and it kept > me > outta the panel before. You are correct, the more points you have the > lower > the load on any one point. There just aren't that many good places to > attach. > > As long as we are discussing Jon's mishap, (Jon, don't you wish we'd leave > you alone) > the gear departure brought up another point that I had wondered about > since > I first saw the plans. > The gear is attached with 4 bolts that are ground away 50% and then welded > to the attach fitting. Neither of those operations are conducive to > maintaining > high strength. Not suggesting a problem , just talking out loud. > > Another way to skin that rabbit is to weld a short piece of bushing stock( > with same ID as the bolt OD) to the plate and drop in a virgin bolt to > hold > the gear. I guess it can be argued either way . My preference would be > to > keep as many of the big pieces attached for > as long as possible to help dissipate energy, rather than my tender,pink, > handsome > body. LOW&SLOW John Bolding > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 5 point seat belts From: george.mueller@aurora.org You can get 5 point seat belts for your Zenith at: http://www.summitracing.com/ or http://www.magnumforceracing.com/crowharness.asp I installed those plus a Ballistic Recovery System in my 701 which makes me wonder if I am getting wimpy in my old age. George N701GM Reserved Wiring panel Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:15 AM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Zenith-List: N329F Update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" Well, it appears that I, along with the tech guru at RaceTech, have solved the rough engine problem. RaceTech manufactures the electronic control module for the engine. Part of the system includes a provision for adding fuel for acceleration. This feature is tied in with a sensor on the throttle plate shaft, the throttle position sensor (TPS). It seems that the TPS was sending spurious signals to the fuel injectors through the accelerator pump function, causing them to cut off. The solution was to zero out the settings for the accelerator pump. The techy told me that a lot of folks don't even use the TPS at all and the worst condition I would experience would be a very slight hesitation during a snap acceleration. That turned out to be true. I flew for an hour yesterday without any burps or coughs. A nice flight, and, emboldened with the good sounding engine I ventured a bit South of the airport and circled my home a couple of times. I had advised the tower of my intentions and without prompting, he called Judith and she was standing in the driveway waving at me. I now have 3.2 hours in the bird. Great balls of fire!! Jim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:30 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! This is to the whole list. I am sorry for sharing this. It won't happen again. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Stone To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:02 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! I am sure that some members of this net will object to this message because it has nothing to do with building Zenith airplanes. I for one am glad Dave put this on the net even if it is against the rules. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Ruddiman To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! JOHN MCCAIN'S REMARKS ABOUT THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE!!! (CHECKED THIS OUT THRU TRUTH AND FICTION, THIS IS TRUE!) ___________________________________________________ In light of the recent appeals court ruling in California, with respect to the Pledge of Allegiance, the following recollection from Senator John McCain is very appropriate: "The Pledge of Allegiance" - by Senator John McCain As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room. This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans onbehalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home. One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian. Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School Then he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967. Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this country and our military provide for people who want to work and want to succeed. As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing. Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed on the inside of his shirt. Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event. One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it. That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all of us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We cleaned him up as well as we could. The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room. As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes almost shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag. He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to Pledge our allegiance to our flag and country. So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world. You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- PASS THIS ON... and on... and on! You can even send it back to me, I don't mind, because its worth reading again ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:03 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Grounding block Brad, not much to making such a ground buss bar. Buy a copper tube; length depends on ground points you want. Gently pound a piece flat with rubber hammer. Drill holes about 3/4 inch apart, install flat head screws counter sunk with two nuts on face. Find a good place and mount it. Best of Luck, Bill ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. From: "vozzen" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "vozzen" >I don't understand the installation problem? I think what we have here is the fact that not all stab mounting brackets are created equal -- ie, some can be slipped on, some can't. And the ones that can't are close. IIRC, this is also a case where the dimensions on the drawings (for the span of the brackets) have changed from the earlier plans [not the first change!!] My suggestion: During assembly, BEFORE riveting the mounting brackets on the fuse, figure out whether the stab can be slipped in or not. If not, think about what you're going to have to do to remove the stab, after it's finished and painted. Tio Rico, XL, 71.4% and holding Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65479#65479 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:52 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. For what ever reason some people have problems and some do not. With the rear skin in place I can't position the stabilizer to where the bolt holes align. Because of the fit of the skin the stabilizer can not be brought in at an rear-edge-high angle and lowered into the brackets on the fuselage. And because the brackets on the fuselage form a V the stabilizer can not be inserted level from the rear as the brackets on the stabilizer fit inside of the plates on the fuselage. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:51 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Grounding block --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" 20 or thirty terminals...Wow. You can attach up to three wires on each terminal. Grounds will generally be grounded to the frame of the plane... I guess the engine mount is a good place. Be sure to install good heavy braids across the engine mount to give the engine a good ground. Otherwise you may have problems with your charging system and your starter. You can use ring terminals that go through the bolts that hold your engine mount in place that will give you 12 places to ground your panel .... Panel supports are another good place to attach grounds. If you really want to use terminal blocks ( they do look clean) then try a ham shack. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Rosalie DeMeo > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:40 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Grounding block > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo > > Hello, I'm new here. I've started a 601xl QBK (May 2, 2006) > and have > the engine on - a Jabiru 3300. I'm getting close to wiring > up a lot of > things and need to find a good block of ground studs or terminals for > grounding stuff in the engine compartment and the cockpit. > Does anyone > know where I can find a grounding block with 20 or so terminals for > sale, or plans to make one? I like reading the postings. > They are very > helpful. > > Brad DeMeo > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:49 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Craig, I've included a linked image from when my stabilizer was being fitted and had much the same problem. I made my saddle reach a bit more to minimize the tail skin overhang needed to get the stabilizer to slip under and on. I ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to fit. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/fibrglasfairing.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/rudderfairing.gif Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Craig Payne wrote: > For what ever reason some people have problems and some do not. > > With the rear skin in place I can't position the stabilizer to where > the bolt holes align. Because of the fit of the skin the stabilizer > can not be brought in at an rear-edge-high angle and lowered into the > brackets on the fuselage. And because the brackets on the fuselage > form a V the stabilizer can not be inserted level from the rear as the > brackets on the stabilizer fit inside of the plates on the fuselage. > > -- Craig > >* >* > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:13 AM PST US From: RClaggf4u@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! I have been a member of this list for probably close to a year. I have never posted a thing, you'd be surprised what you learn by just keeping your mouth shut and listening. However I DO feel this message is important enough for me to spout off. One word... Bravo Dave, You have nothing to be sorry for in my eyes. Wayne Clagg do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:10 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! Yes, I'll be posting my entire political philosophy (which all right-thinking people agree with) to the list over the next few weeks. Anyone who dares to criticize it is an enemy combatant and will be locked up until the war is won. Maybe I'll work on my plane too. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: It's Alive! First Engine Start and Taxi Test Videos From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Scott, Congratulations! Thanks for all the help you have posted. Now it's out to the garangar and cut some metal for the Wing Spar Cap Angles and Center Wing Spar Webs. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65505#65505 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:56 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" >> I ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to fit. Yes, I probably worry too much about keeping the gap between the stab and the skin tight. I doubt a larger gap would add any real drag. I just worry about small birds getting in and building a nest in there :-) -- Craig ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:43 AM PST US From: ALAN BEYER Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Hi Dave, I forwarded your E-Mail to Pete (Jabiru USA). I know how he can be at times. I hope he will get in touch with you soon. I had a FWF kit from Pete years back. It was the original one from Jabiru in Australia, and the cowls looked like crap. When Pete was still in WI we worked out a deal to make a FWF kit because he was asked to do so thru Zenith Co. We used my plane to make the molds and most of the pics in mounting instruction are from my plane. I don't know what FWF system is sold by the other Jabiru guys. I like the looks of the new cowl, and things as far as cooling and mounting work out very well. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know. Good luck, AL from Oshkosh Dave Johnson wrote: Does anyone know of a FWF kit for the 601XL and Jabiru, other than the usjabiru kit? My reason for asking is that I contacted usjabiru about their kit about a month ago and eventually got a reply and quote saying they would get back to me with shipping costs. I have heard nothing since and no reply to several e-mails, which I know they got, as I had the acknowledgement from Outlook. If thats the way they deal with prospective customers, what hope is there for support post-sales? Dave Johnson ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:51 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Seriously, we have a hell of a time with mud daubber wasps aroung here. I even made aluminum fillets for the big wasp-sized holes at the top and bottom of the trailing edge of the rudder. Anything that will reduce the weight of dirt nests that I have to haul off the runway, the better I like it. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / cabin ---- Craig Payne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > >> I ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to > fit. > > Yes, I probably worry too much about keeping the gap between the stab and > the skin tight. I doubt a larger gap would add any real drag. I just worry > about small birds getting in and building a nest in there :-) > > -- Craig ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:33 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! Wayne, It's good to have another supporter. It's true about keeping your mouth shut and your ears and eyes open if you wish to learn however all builders have different experiences and discussing them is what this net is all about. If you are building a Zenith aircraft of any kind, you have something to offer. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: RClaggf4u@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! I have been a member of this list for probably close to a year. I have never posted a thing, you'd be surprised what you learn by just keeping your mouth shut and listening. However I DO feel this message is important enough for me to spout off. One word... Bravo Dave, You have nothing to be sorry for in my eyes. Wayne Clagg do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:59 AM PST US From: RClaggf4u@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! Hey, Thanks for the kind words. I am getting started on a 701, all the metal is in the shop. I'll get going pretty soon and you will surely here from me as problems / solutions crop up ! Glad to be aboard. Wayne do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:32 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Ed, you might want to reconsider about those wasps and bees. If you have a bunch inside your wings flying around wouldn't they act to lighten the plane ? Depending on the power of your engine ( or lack there of ) a couple pounds might mean a lot. I can just see you banging on the sides of the plane during run up to stir them up enough to lighten the plane. Don't mind me, I spent too long flying above 10,000 feet this weekend. Best regards, Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:57 AM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! same here and proud of who i am!! ----- Original Message ----- From: RClaggf4u@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! I have been a member of this list for probably close to a year. I have never posted a thing, you'd be surprised what you learn by just keeping your mouth shut and listening. However I DO feel this message is important enough for me to spout off. One word... Bravo Dave, You have nothing to be sorry for in my eyes. Wayne Clagg do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:31 AM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru DAVE: Skyshops has a 601 FWF kit available for $4890. They are at: > http://www.skyshops.org/FIREWALLFOW.htm< Wonder if anyone knows anything about the Skyshop's CH701 kit which they are advertising as giving the 701/912 combination a cruise speed of 105 mph? Stan 701 > > Dave Johnson wrote: > Does anyone know of a FWF kit for the 601XL and Jabiru, other than > the usjabiru kit? > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:32 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Skyshop's 601XL FWF appears to be for a Rotax, not a Jabiru. -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stanley Challgren Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru DAVE: Skyshops has a 601 FWF kit available for $4890. They are at: > http://www.skyshops.org/FIREWALLFOW.htm< Wonder if anyone knows anything about the Skyshop's CH701 kit which they are advertising as giving the 701/912 combination a cruise speed of 105 mph? Stan 701 Dave Johnson wrote: Does anyone know of a FWF kit for the 601XL and Jabiru, other than the usjabiru kit? ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:02 AM PST US From: fred sanford Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Grounding Block --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford Brad: I bought a spade grounding block from AeroElectric. It worked really well, and looks nice too. Also in the picture is my handiest tool of the whole build. I put nylon webbing around the jaws of 6 inch vise-grip pliers with zip ties. We used them on almost every step. Fred Sanford N9701 912UL 73 hours http://www.sonar100.com/ground%20block.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:03 AM PST US From: "neitzel" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Greetings all, I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an extremely frustrating process to this point. Dick Neitzel Sayner WI 701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:51 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Seat belt attach With all this talk about the gear protruding into the cabin, I have to wonder how a float/amphib setup would react differently. Does anyone have some ideas? Thanks On 10/3/06, LRM wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" > > I haven't been following this discussion about the belts, just happened to > read this last one. So, I thought I would tell how I did mine. I also > use > a four point system. Bolting the belts at each lower side of the seat > wasn't a problem, I used the standard Zenith attach points. It was the > inside bolt on the top that offered a little challenge. I made a "T" bar > out of 1/8' X 3" aluminum flat stock where one piece ran across the entire > width of the luggage compartment and the "T" joined it in the center then > went to the back of the compartment and I bent it up to hook around the > end. > It's all riveted and bolted under the compartment. The outside top belt > bolts down next to the cabin wall and the inside bolts down thru the > compartment and the flat stock near the "T". I did away with the upper > Zenith attach point. Got my belts from Summit Racing. > > Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bolding" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:44 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Seat belt attach > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" > > > > > > > > Subject: Zenith-List: 701 seat belt attach points > >> From: george.mueller@aurora.org > >> Since I am in the process of installing 5 point Nascar type seat belts > in > >> my 701 I am following with interest the discussion of the anchor > points > >> on the seat tunnel. I was considering using the gear tunnel as an > >> alternate anchor point as is being done by John B. However, if you > look > >> at the photos of Jon C's crash (thank you Jon for posting these on your > >> website, they contain very interesting information on a 701's > >> crashworthiness), you see that the main gear ended up several feet away > >> from the rest of the aircraft. Depending on how you attached the > anchor > >> point to the gear tunnel, the departure of the main gear from the > >> aircraft > >> could give you a tummy ache. John B., does your attachment point allow > >> the main gear to shear off without taking your attach point with it? > > > > George > > Good point, you can't change something and always come out > > for the better if you don't do your homework. You COULD make things > worse. > > I saw the gear leg departure as well and for that reason the new > fittings > > will > > not interfere with the leg leaving the tunnel. > > As long as we are discussing Jon's photos that he graciously shared , > > please note the side of the fuselage where the shoulder harness > attaches. > > It is crumpled and pulled inward what appears to be several inches, this > > in my mind would facilitate a slack belt but I'm tackling one thing at a > > time so to keep the domino effect down to a dull roar. I'm probably > gonna > > use a 4 point as that's what I've used on my other homebuilts and it > kept > > me > > outta the panel before. You are correct, the more points you have the > > lower > > the load on any one point. There just aren't that many good places to > > attach. > > > > As long as we are discussing Jon's mishap, (Jon, don't you wish we'd > leave > > you alone) > > the gear departure brought up another point that I had wondered about > > since > > I first saw the plans. > > The gear is attached with 4 bolts that are ground away 50% and then > welded > > to the attach fitting. Neither of those operations are conducive to > > maintaining > > high strength. Not suggesting a problem , just talking out loud. > > > > Another way to skin that rabbit is to weld a short piece of bushing > stock( > > with same ID as the bolt OD) to the plate and drop in a virgin bolt to > > hold > > the gear. I guess it can be argued either way . My preference would be > > to > > keep as many of the big pieces attached for > > as long as possible to help dissipate energy, rather than my > tender,pink, > > handsome > > body. LOW&SLOW John Bolding > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:42 PM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru This one is really interesting. We have now fitted two mounts made from the latest drawings of the 701 fuselage to a 701 we have in our shop and they fit just as they should. Granted, the first mount we made was not exact but made to drawings that came from jabiru, not Zenith. We have delivered a few dozen 701 mounts over the last few years. Some made by Jabiru Australia and some made by Jabiru USA. Only two mounts made this spring were off and replacements were made as soon as we received correct drawings from Zenith. I'm still puzzled at the fact that many mounts must have fit that were made from the same jig as Dick's mount. Dave Johnson's request is for shipment to England by sea freight. We have asked our broker for a freight quote but as of today have not received one. We'll forward those details as soon as we get them. Jabiru USA is committed to providing good customer service. Once in a while we let one get away from us but we remain committed to providing the best service we can. That's why we have two A&P's, two CFII's . That's why we offer engine maintenance seminars quarterly. That's why we work weekends offering Zenith 601 & 701 installation classes. We can and do give many hours of advice and service each week and we welcome any customers or prospects to call. If we fail in an instance or two it does bother us and we try to make the changes to address the problems. Pete _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of neitzel Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Greetings all, I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an extremely frustrating process to this point. Dick Neitzel Sayner WI 701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:23 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Hi Dick, Thank you for your post regarding poor service from the Tennessee branch of Jabiru. Indeed, I think this is exactly what this list is for. You need not apologize. I wonder if anyone can give us feedback about the West coast dealership. Paul XL Fuselage At 11:49 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote: >Greetings all, > >I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from >Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having >trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received >three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering >that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures >to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine >mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe >it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from >the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell >from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send >it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at >building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point >and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it >all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been >cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the >necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone >calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so >can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. > >I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for >a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF >kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having >with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of >Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues >to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine >he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru >power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast >distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. > >I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of >power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be >good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that >the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an >extremely frustrating process to this point. > >Dick Neitzel >Sayner WI >701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted - ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:41 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N329F Update Congrats on finding the hiccup. Your fun is just starting in your new to y.. Fly safe. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jim Fosse" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" Well, it appears that I, along with the tech guru at RaceTech, have solved the rough engine problem. RaceTech manufactures the electronic control module for the engine. Part of the system includes a provision for adding fuel for acceleration. This feature is tied in with a sensor on the throttle plate shaft, the throttle position sensor (TPS). It seems that the TPS was sending spurious signals to the fuel injectors through the accelerator pump function, causing them to cut off. The solution was to zero out the settings for the accelerator pump. The techy told me that a lot of folks don't even use the TPS at all and the worst condition I would experience would be a very slight hesitation during a snap acceleration. That turned out to be true. I flew for an hour yesterday without any burps or coughs. A nice flight, and, emboldened with the good sounding engine I ventured a bit South of the airport and circled my home a couple of times. I had advised the tower of my intentions and without prompting, he called Judith and she was standing in the driveway waving at me. I now have 3.2 hours in the bird. Great balls of fire!! Jim ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

Congrats on finding the hiccup. Your fun is just starting in yo ur new toy.. Fly safe.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Jim Fosse" <jfosse1@shawneelink.net> ; wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted b y: "Jim Fosse" <jfosse1@shawneelink.net>

Wel l, it appears that I, along with the& nbsp;tech guru at RaceTech, have
solved the& nbsp;rough engine problem.  RaceTech manufactur es the electronic
control module for the&nbs p;engine.  Part of the system includes&nbs p;a
provision for adding fuel for accelerati on.  This feature is tied in
with  a sensor on the throttle plate shaft,  ;the throttle position
sensor (TPS).  It&nbs p;seems that the TPS was sending spurious& nbsp;signals to
the fuel injectors through t he accelerator pump function, causing them
t o cut off.  The solution was to  zero out the settings for the
accelerator&nb sp;pump.  The techy told me that a&nb sp;lot of folks don't even
use the TPS& nbsp;at all and the worst condition I  ;would experience would be
a very slight&nbs p;hesitation during a snap acceleration.   That turned out
to be true.  I fle w for an hour yesterday without any b urps or coughs.
A nice flight, and, emb oldened with the good sounding engine I
ventured a bit South of the airport  and circled my home a couple of
times.& nbsp; I had advised the tower of my&n bsp;intentions and without
prompting, he called&n bsp;Judith and she was standing in the&nbs p;driveway
waving at me.  I now have&nb sp;3.2 hours in the bird.  Great ball ======================== ========================  Use the Matronics List Features Navigator ;Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,&n ======================== =           &nb sp;  - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
======================== ========================     - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI&nb ======================== =           &nb   Thank you for your generous support bsp;           &n bsp;       -Matt Dralle, Li ======================== ====================
________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:08 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru --> Zenith-List message posted by: I certainly do not pretend to know all the particulars regarding USA Jabiru in Tennessee, but I have usually gotten responses to emails in a reasonable time frame from Pete. Maybe the problem could be explained by the fact that just before Oshkosh this summer, Pete's right hand man crashed a motorcycle and was out of commission for a few weeks. I found this out because I was in contact with him repeatedly around that time finalizing my engine and FWF kit order. It may indeed turn out that my favorable impression dealing with him has been a big mistake on my part but I've been happy with his service so far. Ed Moody II ---- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > Hi Dick, > > Thank you for your post regarding poor service from the Tennessee > branch of Jabiru. Indeed, I think this is exactly what this list is > for. You need not apologize. > > I wonder if anyone can give us feedback about the West coast dealership. > > Paul > XL Fuselage > > > At 11:49 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote: > >Greetings all, > > > >I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from > >Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having > >trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received > >three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering > >that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures > >to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine > >mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe > >it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from > >the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell > >from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send > >it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at > >building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point > >and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it > >all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been > >cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the > >necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone > >calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so > >can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. > > > >I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for > >a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF > >kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having > >with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of > >Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues > >to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine > >he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru > >power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast > >distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. > > > >I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of > >power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be > >good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that > >the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an > >extremely frustrating process to this point. > > > >Dick Neitzel > >Sayner WI > >701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted > > - ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: vortex generators From: "James MacDonald" Has anyone put vortex generators on you Zenair and how did it work ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:22 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Isn't Pete's right-hand man a woman (Dana)? She sure sounds that way to me. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru --> Zenith-List message posted by: I certainly do not pretend to know all the particulars regarding USA Jabiru in Tennessee, but I have usually gotten responses to emails in a reasonable time frame from Pete. Maybe the problem could be explained by the fact that just before Oshkosh this summer, Pete's right hand man crashed a motorcycle and was out of commission for a few weeks. I found this out because I was in contact with him repeatedly around that time finalizing my engine and FWF kit order. It may indeed turn out that my favorable impression dealing with him has been a big mistake on my part but I've been happy with his service so far. Ed Moody II ---- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > Hi Dick, > > Thank you for your post regarding poor service from the Tennessee > branch of Jabiru. Indeed, I think this is exactly what this list is > for. You need not apologize. > > I wonder if anyone can give us feedback about the West coast dealership. > > Paul > XL Fuselage > > > At 11:49 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote: > >Greetings all, > > > >I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru > >(Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I > >need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine > >mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the > >first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to > >identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount > >lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when > >the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same > >jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 > >feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back > >to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it > >the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it > >and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I > >pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It > >took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The > >other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, > >I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it > >will be like if I encounter a problem. > > > >I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for > >a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF > >kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having > >with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of > >Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues > >to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine > >he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru > >power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast > >distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. > > > >I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of > >power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be > >good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that > >the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an > >extremely frustrating process to this point. > > > >Dick Neitzel > >Sayner WI > >701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted > > - ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:06 PM PST US From: James Ferris Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris Don't see john Mcains remarks anywhere. Jim --- ron wehba wrote: > same here and proud of who i am!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: RClaggf4u@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:02 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: John Mc Cain's > remark's about the Pledge of Allegiance !!! > > > I have been a member of this list for probably > close to a year. I have never posted a thing, you'd > be surprised what you learn by just keeping your > mouth shut and listening. > However I DO feel this message is important enough > for me to spout off. > > One word... Bravo > > Dave, You have nothing to be sorry for in my eyes. > Wayne Clagg > do not archive > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:12 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru --> Zenith-List message posted by: I don't remember the fellow's name but I'm pretty sure he was a he.... then again, these days, who knows? Ed ---- Craig Payne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > Isn't Pete's right-hand man a woman (Dana)? She sure sounds that way to me. > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > dredmoody@cox.net > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:05 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > I certainly do not pretend to know all the particulars regarding USA Jabiru > in Tennessee, but I have usually gotten responses to emails in a reasonable > time frame from Pete. Maybe the problem could be explained by the fact that > just before Oshkosh this summer, Pete's right hand man crashed a motorcycle > and was out of commission for a few weeks. I found this out because I was in > contact with him repeatedly around that time finalizing my engine and FWF > kit order. > > It may indeed turn out that my favorable impression dealing with him has > been a big mistake on my part but I've been happy with his service so far. > > Ed Moody II > > ---- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Dick, > > > > Thank you for your post regarding poor service from the Tennessee > > branch of Jabiru. Indeed, I think this is exactly what this list is > > for. You need not apologize. > > > > I wonder if anyone can give us feedback about the West coast dealership. > > > > Paul > > XL Fuselage > > > > > > At 11:49 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote: > > >Greetings all, > > > > > >I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru > > >(Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I > > >need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine > > >mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the > > >first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to > > >identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount > > >lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when > > >the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same > > >jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 > > >feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back > > >to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it > > >the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it > > >and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I > > >pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It > > >took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The > > >other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, > > >I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it > > >will be like if I encounter a problem. > > > > > >I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for > > >a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF > > >kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having > > >with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of > > >Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues > > >to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine > > >he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru > > >power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast > > >distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. > > > > > >I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of > > >power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be > > >good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that > > >the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an > > >extremely frustrating process to this point. > > > > > >Dick Neitzel > > >Sayner WI > > >701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted > > > > - > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:54 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Vortex Generator? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith All Zenith products ARE vortex generators. That's why airliners pull over to the side and wait until the Zenith has departed. do not archive Zed/701/R912/93.754377% ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:32 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru I need to comment. I just recieved my Jab 3300 and FWF kit about a month ago for my 601 XL. I was concerned about the motor mount fitting. But It fit perfictly. I have contacted Jabiru in Tennessee a number of times and have been happy with the response. I can't complain Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:03 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: Leak test for fuel tanks. I know this has been brought up before, but I couldn't find an answer. I need to test my tanks. What do you use to put the air in the tanks that you can close off to keep the air from coming back out? Dave (anonymous) do not archive ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:29 PM PST US From: "Randy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Hi Group, I haven't said much on this list but I feel obligated to chime in regarding Jabiru (in Tennessee). I purchased a FWF kit from them, for a 601xl, and have had nothing but good service from them (especially Dana). I had a couple items that were missing and I would just send an email to Dana and the item would be shipped the next day. Even if I had a question she would get back to me usually the same day, depending on when I emailed her. Randy Ferri 601XL Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Hi Dick, Thank you for your post regarding poor service from the Tennessee branch of Jabiru. Indeed, I think this is exactly what this list is for. You need not apologize. I wonder if anyone can give us feedback about the West coast dealership. Paul XL Fuselage At 11:49 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote: Greetings all, I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an extremely frustrating process to this point. Dick Neitzel Sayner WI 701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted - ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:15 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Leak test for fuel tanks. Cut the stem and some rubber around it from an inner tube. Then clamp it over the filler neck. Use a bicycle pump to inflate BUT USE VERY LITTLE PRESSURE. You can easily bulge the tank. You can try and monitor the pressure and see if it drops but the most sensitive test is to squirt soapy water along all welds and look for bubbles. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:28 PM PST US From: "Gerald A. Applefeld VMD" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru I need to chime in also. I bought a FWF 3300 for my 601HD about 3 years ago. Pete had a partner at the time that was not as airplane savey, and did some of the packing. I missed several parts. The missing ones were provided with a simple phone call. Since Pet bought out his previous partner, the service has been nothing but excellent. Whenever I have a problem, a phone call is gladly accepted. I find Dana very knoledgable and often she is able to solve the problem. If not Pete or Ben usually gets right on the phone or gets back to me in short order. Remember, they are not only dealing with engines but Jabiru airplanes and builder assist workshops. I don;t know haw they have enough hours in the day to all they do plus handle calls from people like me. They still have my full support. Jerry Do Not Archive neitzel wrote: > Greetings all, > > I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru > (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I > need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine > mounts that were not correctly made. ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:24 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leak test for fuel tanks. --> Zenith-List message posted by: The most safe route is this: screw in the filler cap making sure that it fits securely and makes a good seal. Next screw in the push-to-drain valve making sure that it seals well too. Last item is to inflate a balloon and secure it around the vent tube with tape or a rubber band. Honestly, that's all the pressure you need and it will not deform the tank. Leave it that way for 15 - 30 minutes. If the balloon stay inflated, the tank is good. Ed Moody II ---- Dave Ruddiman wrote: > I know this has been brought up before, but I couldn't find an answer. I need to test my tanks. What do you use to put the air in the tanks that you can close off to keep the air from coming back out? > > > Dave (anonymous) > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:36 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: The panel in the stick movement movie Many people have commented on the nice panel in Bob Archibald's XL (N601BA) as shown in the movie I shot. I've attached a higher resolution shot of the panel for those who want a better view. If you want the original shot with four times as many pixels and less compression just contact me off-list. The screen on the left is Dynon's EFIS-D100, The unit on the right is their EMS-D120. Although it was easy to read the screen directly in front of me I found it hard to read the screen on the passenger side. If I was going with Dynon I'd just put their combination EFIS/EMS D180 on the pilot's side. But I'm buying MGL's new Enigma. The first units have shipped from the factory to the distributors and I'm "only" #24 on a waiting list that now extends into March. I hear that AFS has an equally long wait for their new units. Dynon says they can ship from stock. http://www.mglavionics.co.za/Enigmapage.html www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Enigma/enigma.html -- Craig ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:10 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leak test for fuel tanks. OR...put a surgical glove over one opening & tape it in place. Put just enough air in thru the other opening to inflate the glove to about the size of the smaller volleyballs and then seal that opening when inflated. The glove will shrink when it's cold & grow when heated, as when you put the tank in sunlight. The glove will keep a continuous pressure and expands as required. If the glove goes flat you have a leak. Half & half water and dish washing soap in a spray bottle on the seams & filler areas IF you have a leak. Re-fill the glove as needed & squeeze during "soap" test. How long do you leave the glove on ? ?. We had the gloves on both tanks for more than a year and a half while building the rest of the airplane. The "glove" pressure won't hurt the tank but as a leak detector it's on the job 24-7, 365 days a year. Test: Put them outside in the sun once a week, once a month. Why a surgical glove ? ?. The "kitchen/painter" type won't hold up for a year. KABONG EAA Tech Inspector & HRII builder, 6 yrs flying & going on 300 hrs Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Leak test for fuel tanks. Cut the stem and some rubber around it from an inner tube. Then clamp it over the filler neck. Use a bicycle pump to inflate BUT USE VERY LITTLE PRESSURE. You can easily bulge the tank. You can try and monitor the pressure and see if it drops but the most sensitive test is to squirt soapy water along all welds and look for bubbles. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:13 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Jim from Jabiru Pacific proved to be energetic and knowledgeable at the FWF class at Quality Sport Planes. Although I have yet to meet Pete face-to-face he and his crew have been responsive to my phone calls and e-mails so far. My engine and FWF are due by the end of November from Pete. Jabiru Pacific is a smaller operation that the folks in Tennessee. I would say that if you are west of the Rockies go with Jabiru Pacific, otherwise "go east young man". -- Craig ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:31 PM PST US From: ALAN BEYER Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Pete, Thanks for the return about Dave's FWF kit. I hope that will answer some questions with Dave and clear up things with other people on the list. AL Everone else, I have worked with Pete and his crew on the FWF kit for the 601's, and I don't think you will find a more dedicated crew of guys when it comes to airplanes,engines or anythink else to do with airplanes. After talking to Pete at SnF, it sounds like things have changed a lot from when they were in Wisconsin. They have gone from a couple of guys to a lot of guys, and hiring more all the time. Along with growth sometimes things slip under the carpet. I am sure Pete and his guys don't want this to happen. Regards, AL from Oshkosh Pete Krotje wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } This one is really interesting. We have now fitted two mounts made from the latest drawings of the 701 fuselage to a 701 we have in our shop and they fit just as they should. Granted, the first mount we made was not exact but made to drawings that came from jabiru, not Zenith. We have delivered a few dozen 701 mounts over the last few years. Some made by Jabiru Australia and some made by Jabiru USA. Only two mounts made this spring were off and replacements were made as soon as we received correct drawings from Zenith. Im still puzzled at the fact that many mounts must have fit that were made from the same jig as Dicks mount. Dave Johnsons request is for shipment to England by sea freight. We have asked our broker for a freight quote but as of today have not received one. Well forward those details as soon as we get them. Jabiru USA is committed to providing good customer service. Once in a while we let one get away from us but we remain committed to providing the best service we can. Thats why we have two A&Ps, two CFIIs . Thats why we offer engine maintenance seminars quarterly. Thats why we work weekends offering Zenith 601 & 701 installation classes. We can and do give many hours of advice and service each week and we welcome any customers or prospects to call. If we fail in an instance or two it does bother us and we try to make the changes to address the problems. Pete --------------------------------- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of neitzel Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Greetings all, I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an extremely frustrating process to this point. Dick Neitzel Sayner WI 701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:31 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru My turn.... I ordered an received my 601XL FWF kit from JabUSA last year. I've had many problems during installation, most notably involving the fit of the mount. In my case, the problem seemed to have more to do with ZAC changing their XL plans (my firewall was built to the 1st edition which is different than current versions) than it did with Jab's workmanship. Jab made a special 2nd mount for me (at no charge), which also didn't fit. For whatever reason, the dimensions & measurements I sent did not get accurately reflected in the 2nd mount. So, they agreed to make a 3rd and final mount (also at no charge!). Unfortunately, this one didn't fit either, so I had to shim extensively and use special barrel nuts provided by Jab since the engine mounting bolts weren't long enough. During this whole process, Pete was pretty good to deal with, and it's certainly admirable that they supplied so many replacement mounts. If I had to complain about something, I would say his one shortcoming is failing to respond to emails in a timely fashion. I've had emails go unanswered for weeks, where I've had to send it over & over again until I finally got an answer (emails are easier for me due to the time difference). In fact, I never did receive the propeller and am currently awaiting a response to a follow-up email which was sent last week. So, as constructive criticism, responsiveness can definitely stand some improvement. As for the quality of the engine & the components, I've found most everything to be of high quality. There are some exceptions.....XLers should know that the supplied throttle cable isn't long enough if you plan on mounted the control on the left side of the panel. Also, my airbox doesn't have a port to connect to the engine as per the instructions (this had me scratching my head for a while). The installation photos and instructions are helpful, and mostly thorough with some gaping holes from the standpoint of a novice like me. As with Zenith's plans, don't expect tab A into slot B instructions...but there's enough there to get through eventually (I hope). In summary, I have been appreciative of Pete's help, and impressed with the quality of Jab's engine & parts. Of course, consider that I'm not yet done with the installation and haven't started the engine yet, so feel free to discount accordingly. Mike Fortunato 601XL Jab3300 --------------------------------- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of neitzel Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Greetings all, I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an extremely frustrating process to this point. Dick Neitzel Sayner WI 701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:53 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Zenith-List: Leak test for fuel tanks. We closed off openings except two, put the glove on the fuel outlet fitting, & with air from the compressor VERY SLOWLY blew the glove up via the open tank drain fitting, when the glove was the proper size we closed the tank drain. KABONG Sorry I forgot that step. Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Ruddiman Dave Anonymous Ruddiman, don't think Ive ever met a guy with that middle name before 8*) I know this has been brought up before, but I couldn't find an answer. I need to test my tanks. What do you use to put the air in the tanks that you can close off to keep the air from coming back out? Dave (anonymous) do not archive ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:17 PM PST US From: ALAN BEYER Subject: Zenith-List: Horizontal Stab. A week back there were many posts about fitting the Stb. with the rear skin in place. Some said it could be done and others said no way. I wrote in about my HDS and a friends HD and said both Stabs. could be put on with the rear skin on. Both were build just like the plans said. Tape was put on the rear skin inside the cut-out to keep the paint from scratching. The Stab. was slid in place at a slight up-right angle and then lowered in place. It takes two people and a little bit of care. I said when I get out to the airport I would take some pictures of our planes. (See attached pics.) AL from Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:55 PM PST US From: "George Tamvakis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru I am glad I am not the only one I had a very similar experience with Pete and again Jim from West coast help me . I have an engine mount for a 701 that it might help you . George ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Hi Dick, Thank you for your post regarding poor service from the Tennessee branch of Jabiru. Indeed, I think this is exactly what this list is for. You need not apologize. I wonder if anyone can give us feedback about the West coast dealership. Paul XL Fuselage At 11:49 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote: Greetings all, I have hesitated to speak up about the service I received from Jabiru (Tennessee) but when I read that Dave Johnson was having trouble I need to inform the list of my experience. I received three engine mounts that were not correctly made. After discovering that the first one didn't fit my fire wall I e mailed Pete pictures to identify where it needed changing and also a copy of the engine mount lay out directly from the 701 plans book. I couldn't believe it when the second mount didn't fit either. Appeared to come from the same jig. I got the third mount from him at OSH and could tell from 10 feet away that it was still not correct. He offered to send it back to the welder for the changes but after two attempts at building it the way it should have been I figured what's the point and took it and had an A&P friend make the corrections. To top it all off when I pried the top of my engine box the engine had been cannibalized! It took two phone calls to remind him to send the necessary parts. The other thing is he will not return your phone calls. Bottom line is, I didn't get much service before the sale so can't imagine what it will be like if I encounter a problem. I even called the West coast distributor to see if he had mounts for a 701. Unfortunately he was just in the process of developing a FWF kit for the 701. When I explained what difficulties I was having with the Tennessee branch he apologized over and over on behalf of Jabiru. That was something I never got from Pete. If he continues to treat customers and potential customers this way I can't imagine he will be around much longer. If anyone is interested in a Jabiru power plant I would highly recommend that you contact the West coast distributor Jim McCormic at 559-431-1701. I realize this is not a builder question but with the high cost of power plants and the need for service after the sale this might be good information to have. After all this, I am still convinced that the Jabiru will be a great power plant. It has just been an extremely frustrating process to this point. Dick Neitzel Sayner WI 701 Jabiru 2200 finally mounted - ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:05 PM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne While handling the skin for my horizontal stabilizer tonight I managed to put a very small dent in the leading edge. Luckily, it is in the center and will probably be covered up and not visible anyway. I tried (gently) tapping on the dent with a mallet but that did nothing. I don't want to hit it too hard. Is there a good way to remove a shallow dent from .016? Thanks, Todd Osborne EMail: todd@toddtown.com Web: www.toddtown.com Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com Skype: toddmosborne ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Removing small dent/crease From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I did the same thing in the same spot. I suggest leaving it alone as there is a good possibility that you will only make it worse. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65623#65623 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:01 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 5 point seat belts Or, maybe just smart. ----- Original Message ----- From: george.mueller@aurora.org To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:50 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 5 point seat belts You can get 5 point seat belts for your Zenith at: http://www.summitracing.com/ or http://www.magnumforceracing.com/crowharness.asp I installed those plus a Ballistic Recovery System in my 701 which makes me wonder if I am getting wimpy in my old age. George N701GM Reserved Wiring panel Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:06 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: the Pledge of Allegiance !!! Gentlemen, though I have a delete key and often exercise my right to use it as you exercise your right to post whatever you deem pertinent to the building of our airplanes and comradely of our fellowship I ask you to please remember that this is an international membership on this list. Though I=92m a great friend of the United States I=92m also Proudly Canadian. Now my brother is also a U.S. Citizen and I=92m just fine with his choice. I enjoy visiting your country and I have great friendships with many of you. However, I ask that respect be paid to other nationalities that would never Pledge Allegiance to your country. I stand at attention for your national anthem and I would expect that most of you would for mine. This is not an insult message, just a reminder that not everyone here is from the States. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario. Canada Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 Almost finished HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com do not archive -- 10/2/2006 -- 10/2/2006 ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:49 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Fuel Tanks Thanks for all the suggestions for leak tests. The only leaks I have are around the rubber gloves and rubber bands. I guess the caps are vented. I put one on and put a glove over it. I can still blow up the glove. How much venting do I need? It is obviously harder to blow up the glove through the cap. Is any venting OK or is it better to have more? Dave do not archive ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:53 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Pictures of factory HD/HDS 16 gallon header tank? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Does anyone have pictures of one of these tanks: installed or uninstalled? I know about Larry McFarland's site but he scratch-built his tank and I'm not certain how closely it matches the factory part. -- Craig