---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/04/06: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:09 AM - Re: 801 Fuel Tanks (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 02:22 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Dave Johnson) 3. 04:28 AM - Re: 801 Fuel Tanks (Tom) 4. 04:44 AM - Re: the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (Geoff Heap) 5. 04:53 AM - Re: 801 Fuel Tanks (Zodie Rocket) 6. 05:23 AM - Re: "Pledge" (Zed Smith) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: the Pledge of Allegiance !!! (James Ferris) 8. 06:20 AM - Re: Pictures of factory HD/HDS 16 gallon header tank? (LarryMcFarland) 9. 06:26 AM - Re: Removing small dent/crease (LarryMcFarland) 10. 06:36 AM - Re: John McCains Remarks ..... (Bima, Martin) 11. 06:39 AM - 801 Fuel Caps (Dave Ruddiman) 12. 06:46 AM - Re: Removing small dent/crease (Dave Ruddiman) 13. 06:48 AM - to pledge or not to pledge (Carlos Sa) 14. 07:15 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (Paul Tipton) 15. 07:29 AM - Re: Removing small dent/crease (Debo Cox) 16. 07:48 AM - Re: Removing small dent/crease () 17. 08:03 AM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (T. Graziano) 18. 08:32 AM - Re: Removing small dent/crease (William Jeffries) 19. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks (Jay Caldwell) 20. 09:25 AM - Re: Removing small dent/crease (Todd Osborne) 21. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Grounding Block (rosestar@sonic.net) 22. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Grounding Block (rosestar@sonic.net) 23. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: 701 Builder manual questions (MacDonald Doug) 24. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: "Pledge" (Noel Loveys) 25. 01:18 PM - Re: Removing small dent/crease (Robert L. Stone) 26. 01:20 PM - Re: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=) 27. 01:52 PM - Re: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru (John Marzulli) 28. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks (n801bh@netzero.com) 29. 02:31 PM - Re: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru (Paul Mulwitz) 30. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks (Gary Gower) 31. 04:34 PM - Re: to pledge or not to pledge (Bill Naumuk) 32. 05:03 PM - Tensioning Cable (Matt & Jo) 33. 05:34 PM - Re: FWF kit for Jabiru (nyterminat@aol.com) 34. 05:50 PM - Re: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru (nyterminat@aol.com) 35. 06:17 PM - Re: Tensioning Cable (Craig Payne) 36. 07:45 PM - Re: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru (billmileski) 37. 10:40 PM - (Grant Corriveau) 38. 10:40 PM - Now I can sell my plane ;-) (Grant Corriveau) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:31 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Fuel Tanks Hi Dave, I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me your cap should be sealed and you should have a different port for venting the tank. That is the way it is done on the XL. You will need a significant amount of air pressure going into the fuel tank to insure good fuel flow to the engine. This is accomplished on the XL with a 3/8 inch metal tube welded near the fuel intake cap but on the bottom side of the tank. It extends up to nearly the top of the tank and is cut at an angle that forces some air into it when the plane is in flight. It also serves as a fuel overflow vent so expanded fuel will not burst the tank on a hot parking space. I have no idea what the 801 has in its tank design, but I would have thought C. Heintz would use similar design techniques on all his designs. The fuel intake cap on the XL is threaded into the tank via a welded metal ring. I went ahead and sealed this thread with normal plumbing thread compound. If your tank has the same feature it may be this thread that is leaking air rather than the gas cap itself. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 08:57 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote: >Thanks for all the suggestions for leak tests. The only leaks I have >are around the rubber gloves and rubber bands. I guess the caps are >vented. I put one on and put a glove over it. I can still blow up >the glove. How much venting do I need? It is obviously harder to >blow up the glove through the cap. Is any venting OK or is it >better to have more? > >Dave > > - ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:47 AM PST US From: "Dave Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Many thanks to all who responded to my original e-mail. I want to go for the usjabiru kit because it has had such good reports on this list, I guess that being the 'wrong' side of the Atlantic does complicate matters a bit and makes it difficult if things go wrong - hence my caution! It seems that the problem was my request for sea freight (serves me right for being tight-fisted!). I have had an e-mail from Dana, so at least I now have a second e-mail address to chase if necessary. Regards, Dave Johnson do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: ALAN BEYER To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Hi Dave, I forwarded your E-Mail to Pete (Jabiru USA). I know how he can be at times. I hope he will get in touch with you soon. I had a FWF kit from Pete years back. It was the original one from Jabiru in Australia, and the cowls looked like crap. When Pete was still in WI we worked out a deal to make a FWF kit because he was asked to do so thru Zenith Co. We used my plane to make the molds and most of the pics in mounting instruction are from my plane. I don't know what FWF system is sold by the other Jabiru guys. I like the looks of the new cowl, and things as far as cooling and mounting work out very well. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know. Good luck, AL from Oshkosh Dave Johnson wrote: Does anyone know of a FWF kit for the 601XL and Jabiru, other than the usjabiru kit? My reason for asking is that I contacted usjabiru about their kit about a month ago and eventually got a reply and quote saying they would get back to me with shipping costs. I have heard nothing since and no reply to several e-mails, which I know they got, as I had the acknowledgement from Outlook. If thats the way they deal with prospective customers, what hope is there for support post-sales? Dave Johnson ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks From: "Tom" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" The 801 has vented caps and will be different from the xl because of the high wing versus low wing disign of the wings. The caps will supply enough air venting to ensure the tanks remain at normal air pressure. If the tanks were locked off then gas flow would stop after a hour or so of running due to the vacuum created. -------- Tom CH801 http://tompizza.webhop.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65676#65676 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: the Pledge of Allegiance !!! From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Nicely said.........Geoff Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65678#65678 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:57 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 Fuel Tanks Hi Dave the vented caps on the 801 are the same ones that have been used on the 701 for the last 20 yrs. That is all you need and they work quite well. The 601XL being a low wing and is concerned about excess drag has incorporated a flush fuel cap system but this involves making a vent tube in the tank. The 701 and 801 are all about drag and simplicity so the cap hanging in the wing and not having a vent tube wielded in are par for the course. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:07 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Fuel Tanks Hi Dave, I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me your cap should be sealed and you should have a different port for venting the tank. That is the way it is done on the XL. You will need a significant amount of air pressure going into the fuel tank to insure good fuel flow to the engine. This is accomplished on the XL with a 3/8 inch metal tube welded near the fuel intake cap but on the bottom side of the tank. It extends up to nearly the top of the tank and is cut at an angle that forces some air into it when the plane is in flight. It also serves as a fuel overflow vent so expanded fuel will not burst the tank on a hot parking space. I have no idea what the 801 has in its tank design, but I would have thought C. Heintz would use similar design techniques on all his designs. The fuel intake cap on the XL is threaded into the tank via a welded metal ring. I went ahead and sealed this thread with normal plumbing thread compound. If your tank has the same feature it may be this thread that is leaking air rather than the gas cap itself. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 08:57 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote: Thanks for all the suggestions for leak tests. The only leaks I have are around the rubber gloves and rubber bands. I guess the caps are vented. I put one on and put a glove over it. I can still blow up the glove. How much venting do I need? It is obviously harder to blow up the glove through the cap. Is any venting OK or is it better to have more? Dave - "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion -- 10/2/2006 -- 10/2/2006 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:29 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: re: "Pledge" --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Thank you, Mark!! Well said, timely, to the point, needed. Zed Smith do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:10 AM PST US From: James Ferris Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: the Pledge of Allegiance !!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris When in Rome, do as the Romans! when in America, do as the Americans! --- Geoff Heap wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > > > Nicely said.........Geoff > > > > > Do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65678#65678 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:01 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pictures of factory HD/HDS 16 gallon header tank? --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Craig, My header tank is basically a 9-1/2 gallon tank because the lead edge tanks are about the same. The shape was limited to control depth for standard T& B and ICom radio plus wires, etc. Not to factory dimensional spec, but better welding and .040 - 5052-H32. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Craig Payne wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >Does anyone have pictures of one of these tanks: installed or uninstalled? I >know about Larry McFarland's site but he scratch-built his tank and I'm not >certain how closely it matches the factory part. > >-- Craig > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:51 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Todd, I did the same thing to my leading edge left wing and would have scrapped the piece right there, but decided to put the dent on a flat block of steel and bump it a little. Within a couple of minutes, the dent was 90% removed. I stopped there and sprayed a primer filler on it and sanded the surface smooth again. .016 is going to be considerably more sensitive, but I'd recommend you bump it out against something hard with a smooth round hammer face, but not all the way because you've stretched the metal in denting it. Then fill it. Go gently at it....... Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Todd Osborne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > > While handling the skin for my horizontal stabilizer tonight I > managed to put a very small dent in the leading edge. Luckily, it is > in the center and will probably be covered up and not visible anyway. > I tried (gently) tapping on the dent with a mallet but that did > nothing. I don't want to hit it too hard. Is there a good way to > remove a shallow dent from .016? Thanks, > > Todd Osborne > EMail: todd@toddtown.com > Web: www.toddtown.com > Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com > MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com > Skype: toddmosborne > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: RE: John McCains Remarks ..... From: "Bima, Martin" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" Wow, Thirteen years without shoes. Do not archive P.S. Is the latest edition of the 701 builder's manual good for putting the rear fuselage together, or are builders using different and more successful strategies? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:07 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Fuel Caps I appreciate the input regarding the 801 caps, vents etc. I new the caps were vented, but wasn't sure how much was needed. I have never seen ram air tubes on the caps in any pictures, but who knows better than those that have seen it, done it, been there, talked about it, heard about it, thought about it, etc., etc. Thanks for the suggestions, Dave ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:07 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Todd, I use Super Fil. It's a blue, 2 to1 epoxy filler that you can get from Aircraft Spruce. It works on aluminum, steel, composites and wood. It is really light weight. Dave in Salem do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:25 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > Todd, > I did the same thing to my leading edge left wing and would have scrapped > the piece right there, but decided to put the dent on a flat block of > steel and bump it a little. > Within a couple of minutes, the dent was 90% removed. I stopped there and > sprayed a primer filler on it and sanded the surface smooth again. .016 is > going to be considerably more sensitive, but I'd recommend you bump it out > against something hard with a smooth round hammer face, but not all the > way because you've stretched the metal in denting it. Then fill it. Go > gently at it....... > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > Todd Osborne wrote: > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne >> >> While handling the skin for my horizontal stabilizer tonight I managed >> to put a very small dent in the leading edge. Luckily, it is in the >> center and will probably be covered up and not visible anyway. I tried >> (gently) tapping on the dent with a mallet but that did nothing. I don't >> want to hit it too hard. Is there a good way to remove a shallow dent >> from .016? Thanks, >> >> Todd Osborne >> EMail: todd@toddtown.com >> Web: www.toddtown.com >> Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com >> MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com >> Skype: toddmosborne >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:14 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: to pledge or not to pledge --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa If you mean US, not all of us are there. How would you like people from around the world posting their respective Allegiance equivalents here? It certainly would be interesting, but this is not the place: This is a Zenith forum. Nothing else. Respectfuly Carlos Sa Montreal, Canada do not archive --- James Ferris a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris > > When in Rome, do as the Romans! when in America, do as > the Americans! > > --- Geoff Heap wrote: __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:00 AM PST US From: "Paul Tipton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Stan: The combination they are referring to is the 701/912ULS. It gets a higher cruise with a combination of the airbox to get the full 100HP and a more aerodynamic cowl. Danny at Skyshop would be more than willing to tell you about it. PS - I have not been able to get 105 MPH cruise. I might be able to get that if I change the prop pitch, but I am more than happy with the combination I have. A good combination of get off the ground and slower cruise... I'm not usually in a hurry to go anywhere. 321PT ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:02 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease Another trick I read is to press it out gently from the back with the curved back of a spoon. This takes a little practice, but I was able to get out a small "smile" in some .016 I used on my horizontal stabilizer. Debo LarryMcFarland wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Todd, I did the same thing to my leading edge left wing and would have scrapped the piece right there, but decided to put the dent on a flat block of steel and bump it a little. Within a couple of minutes, the dent was 90% removed. I stopped there and sprayed a primer filler on it and sanded the surface smooth again. .016 is going to be considerably more sensitive, but I'd recommend you bump it out against something hard with a smooth round hammer face, but not all the way because you've stretched the metal in denting it. Then fill it. Go gently at it....... Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Todd Osborne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > > While handling the skin for my horizontal stabilizer tonight I > managed to put a very small dent in the leading edge. Luckily, it is > in the center and will probably be covered up and not visible anyway. > I tried (gently) tapping on the dent with a mallet but that did > nothing. I don't want to hit it too hard. Is there a good way to > remove a shallow dent from .016? Thanks, > > Todd Osborne > EMail: todd@toddtown.com > Web: www.toddtown.com > Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com > MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com > Skype: toddmosborne > > --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:29 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease --> Zenith-List message posted by: If you are addicted to cool tools like many of us, Harbor Freight has a set of body and fender hammers and dollys that are reasonably priced. The round dolly works well as the "spoon" in the technique you described, Debo. Like others have said, "Don't ask me how I know this". Ed Moody II ---- Debo Cox wrote: > Another trick I read is to press it out gently from the back with the curved back of a spoon. This takes a little practice, but I was able to get out a small "smile" in some .016 I used on my horizontal stabilizer. > > Debo ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:30 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FWF kit for Jabiru I ordered and received my Jab 3300 and FWF kit for my 601XL about 2 years ago (just as Jab USA was locating from Wisconsin to Tennessee) and first flew it in July of last year. I had great support from Pete during my installation and have had had exceptional support from Jabiru USA.since. If you call Dana for any parts, she usually has them "in the mail" the same day. An example of post procurement support from Pete is that during my first annual conditional inspection I found a crack in my muffler where the exhaust "pipe" enters the "can" (probably a MIG weld vice the current TIG welds). I called Pete to see if it was under warranty and he said to just sent it to him. Even though Jab USA was busy getting ready to go to OSH, I received my repaired muffler (both pipe welds re-welded) back in a timely manner. NOTE: I have found that it is a whole lot easier to mount the engine to the mount, then mount the engine/mount package to the firewall. I did this during original installation and again during my annual inspection when I installed Jab shims underneath the lower vibration isolators to correct a little sag. Tony Graziano Zodiac 601XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 152 hrs. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:34 AM PST US From: William Jeffries Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease Todd and all, I have a solution for your dents, dings and other imperfections. This will take a bit of explanation but be patient and I'll try. The only question is do you have access to the inside of your leading edge. If so I recommend that you purchase a spherical magnet and a polished piece of mild steel. What you simply do is place the sphere magnet on the inside of your leading edge and run it around using the block of steel. The magnet is attracted the the steel through the aluminum and will roll out any imperfection that it encounters. It's sort of like having a portable english wheel. Because of the small surface area of contact a sphere the pressure is concentrated and will roll out any damage. These magnets can be obtained in varying sizes to accommodate whatever radius trying to be repaired. As for the block of steel, a 3x3x0.5 should be adequate, just be sure that there are no sharp edges that could scratch the surface of the aluminum. I recommend using a polished piece of steel however this can be protected by using masking tape as long as you butt the edges of your tape rather than overlap the seams. It doesn't take long at all to repair the damage just take your time in the prep work to prevent any further damage. This method works equally well on painted surfaces. The only reasonable source that I have found for the magnets is on the web at HTTP://www.unitednuclear.com. The 1.5" sphere goes for $48 plus shipping. Good luck on whatever route you choose, Bill Jeffries, AP --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:59 AM PST US From: Jay Caldwell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks I have a question extending this discussion. I have an 801 with both main and aux tanks. I am installing a Crossflow Subaru Turbochared engine. I have a header tank installed on the Firewall for the wing tanks to "drain" into. The wing tanks are vented and the header tank is not. The header tank feed the Gascolator which will feed the fuel pumps which pressurize the MPI fuel rail which ends in a regulator that connects back to the header tank. The header tank is NOT vented except for a schrader valve to bleed off air. I don't have this hooked up yet. Comments? Tom wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" The 801 has vented caps and will be different from the xl because of the high wing versus low wing disign of the wings. The caps will supply enough air venting to ensure the tanks remain at normal air pressure. If the tanks were locked off then gas flow would stop after a hour or so of running due to the vacuum created. -------- Tom CH801 http://tompizza.webhop.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65676#65676 Jay F. Caldwell Owner, Caldwell Systems Engineering (CSE), LLC 4181 Tamilynn Court San Diego, CA 92122 Voice 858.453.4594 Facsimile 858.452.1560 Work 619.562.0885 Mobile 858.336.0394 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:45 AM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne Thanks for your response, and all the others. I do have access to the inside of the skin right now, but when I pulled top skin down to rivet it, the dent almost completely disappears under the stress of the skin. So, I think I got lucky here, the damage is real slight and barely noticeable when the skin is tight, and will be under the rudder fairing, so in this case I think the best thing to do is nothing at all. Todd Osborne EMail: todd@toddtown.com Web: www.toddtown.com Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com Skype: toddmosborne ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Grounding Block From: rosestar@sonic.net --> Zenith-List message posted by: rosestar@sonic.net > --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford > > Brad: > I bought a spade grounding block from AeroElectric. It worked really > well, and looks nice too. Also in the picture is my handiest tool of the > whole build. I put nylon webbing around the jaws of 6 inch vise-grip > pliers with zip ties. We used them on almost every step. > > Fred Sanford N9701 912UL 73 hours > > http://www.sonar100.com/ground%20block.jpg > > do not archive > > Thank you to everyone who responded. The links to the suppliers are great. You pointed me to exactly what I need. Thanks. Brad ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Grounding Block From: rosestar@sonic.net --> Zenith-List message posted by: rosestar@sonic.net > --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford > > Brad: > I bought a spade grounding block from AeroElectric. It worked really > well, and looks nice too. Also in the picture is my handiest tool of the > whole build. I put nylon webbing around the jaws of 6 inch vise-grip > pliers with zip ties. We used them on almost every step. > > Fred Sanford N9701 912UL 73 hours > > http://www.sonar100.com/ground%20block.jpg > > do not archive > > Fred, Very nice work on the wiring. Very neat and clean. I also have that tool and a dremel which has been a real handing tool as well. Brad ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:08 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: 701 Builder manual questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug I am in the process of putting the baggage compartment and seat back in place so this the rear fuselage is pretty fresh in my mind. And, I am scratch building my 701 if it makes any difference to how you view this advice. Bellow are some of the changes I made after consulting with CAN-ZAC. 1. I flush riveted the "L"s to the fuse sides (for looks only) using the dimpleing and back riveting method shown to me by a fellow 701 builder who had previously built an early RV-6 kit. I went with AN426AD-3-3 rivets at 30mm pitch if I remember correctly. It turned out great. 2. I placed 0.016 "L"s diagnally between the upright to prevent oil canning. These I riveted at 40 pitch. The diagnals were also riveted the same as the uprights 3. I used driven AN470AD Rivets on the longerons. I think pulled rivets would have been better in these locations though. I found the driven rivet didn't pull the skin as tightly to the longeron as a pulled rivet would have. Admittedly, the more rivets I installed, the better they looked. 4. When it comes to the part where you attach the rear wing mounts, don't follow the steps in the manual rather follow the instructions listed on the plans (top of 7F11 I think). It would be better to cleco the side uprights and doublers in place before installing the wing brackets. Otherwise it may be possible to intstall them in less that optimal position. I found that until I attached the uprights at the front, I could change the angle at the top by 3-5 degrees. Other than these items, the builder manual and plans work pretty well. Even with the slower going for the driven rivets, it went together fairly quickly. I am amazed at how strong and light the rear fuselage is once it is put together. Doug MacDonald NW ONtario, Canada CH-701 Scratch builder Finishing up the rear fuse >P.S. Is the latest edition of the 701 builder's >manual good for putting >the rear fuselage together, or are builders using >different and more >successful strategies? __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:41 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: "Pledge" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" American friends: Having your Pledge of Allegiance said in your schools, hospitals, churches and any where else in your great country is admirable. We, outside the U.S. can probably learn from you on this matter. But To everything there is a time and a place... Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:53 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: re: "Pledge" > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > Thank you, Mark!! Well said, timely, to the point, needed. > > Zed Smith > do not archive > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:35 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" This comes under the heading of: IF IT AINT BROKE, DON'T FIX IT DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Osborne" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:22 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing small dent/crease > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne > > Thanks for your response, and all the others. I do have access to the > inside of the skin right now, but when I pulled top skin down to > rivet it, the dent almost completely disappears under the stress of > the skin. So, I think I got lucky here, the damage is real slight and > barely noticeable when the skin is tight, and will be under the > rudder fairing, so in this case I think the best thing to do is > nothing at all. > > Todd Osborne > EMail: todd@toddtown.com > Web: www.toddtown.com > Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com > MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com > Skype: toddmosborne > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:45 PM PST US From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Hello list members. I thought the VNE for Zenith 701 is 90mph. Has this changed with the new kits? If not, what is the purpose of getting a higher speed than the never exceed speed? Is that safe? Just curious. Regards, Johann G. Z701 do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:30 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru Zenith's site lists 110MPH as VNE Realistically I think 90MPH is VNWE... aka Never Will Exceed. On 10/4/06, J=F3hann Gestur wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= < > joeing701@internet.is> > > Hello list members. > > I thought the VNE for Zenith 701 is 90mph. Has this changed with the new > kits? If not, what is the purpose of getting a higher speed than the > never exceed speed? Is that safe? > > Just curious. > > Regards, > Johann G. > Z701 > do not archive > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- John Marzulli CH701 in Seattle Wings and tanks on order! http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:01 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks My first impression is that you will be ok. If your header tank was ven ted the vent would have to be higher then the wing tanks or the fuel wou ld siphon out. Since it is next to impossible to run a vent up higher th en the wing tanks my feeling is that your set up "should" work. Just rem ember the 801 is a strange beast in that the wings work soooo good the l ow pressure area on top of the wings plays tricks on the entire fuel sys tem and venting. There was a 801 down in Texas that crashed because of venting issues... After we spend all this time building our toys we sure ly don't want to trash it over something that is documented... Just me o pinion.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Jay Caldwell wrote: I have a question extending this discussion. I have an 801 with both ma in and aux tanks. I am installing a Crossflow Subaru Turbochared engine . I have a header tank installed on the Firewall for the wing tanks to "drain" into. The wing tanks are vented and the header tank is not. Th e header tank feed the Gascolator which will feed the fuel pumps which p ressurize the MPI fuel rail which ends in a regulator that connects back to the header tank. The header tank is NOT vented except for a schrade r valve to bleed off air. I don't have this hooked up yet. Comments? Tom wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" The 801 has vented caps and will be different from the xl because of the ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ====

 My first impression is that you will be ok. If your heade r tank was vented the vent would have to be higher then the wing tanks o r the fuel would siphon out. Since it is next to impossible to run a ven t up higher then the wing tanks my feeling is that your set up "should" work. Just remember the 801 is a strange beast in that the wings work so ooo good the low pressure area on top of the wings plays tricks on the e ntire fuel system and venting. There was a 801 down in Texas that crashe d because of  venting issues... After we spend all this time buildi ng our toys we surely don't want to trash it over something that is docu mented... Just me opinion..

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- Jay Caldwell <caldwelljf@sbcglobal.net& gt; wrote:

I have a question extending this discussion.  I have an 801 wi th both main and aux tanks.  I am installing a Crossflow Subaru Tur bochared engine.  I have a header tank installed on the Firewall fo r the wing tanks to "drain" into.  The wing tanks are vented and th e header tank is not.  The header tank feed the Gascolator which wi ll feed the fuel pumps which pressurize the MPI fuel rail which ends in a regulator that connects back to the header tank.  The header tank is NOT vented except for a schrader valve to bleed off air.  I don 't have this hooked up yet.
 
Comments?

Tom <tomp@cogeco.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: " Tom"

The 801 has vented caps and will be differe nt from the xl because of the high wing versus low wing disign of the

======================== =========== ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ======================== =========== tronics.com ======================== =========== ics.com ======================== =========== www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== ===========
________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:20 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Johann, The ZAC web site shows a Vne of 110 mph for the 701. Perhaps this has changed over time. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 01:20 PM 10/4/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= > > >Hello list members. > >I thought the VNE for Zenith 701 is 90mph. Has this changed with the >new kits? If not, what is the purpose of getting a higher speed than >the never exceed speed? Is that safe? > >Just curious. > >Regards, >Johann G. >Z701 >do not archive > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:39 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks Hello Jay, Just one fast comment, (no 801 builder or owner) No time to think about it now myself, sorry.. But the number 1 case (Kitplanes article) of accidents were fuel related and most of them in the first hours... Just be very carefull and look for all the potential problems in any design. You will get enough advise from the list, but keep your mind open to the best system YOU can choose and build. Good luck and keep us posted. Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. do not archive Jay Caldwell wrote: I have a question extending this discussion. I have an 801 with both main and aux tanks. I am installing a Crossflow Subaru Turbochared engine. I have a header tank installed on the Firewall for the wing tanks to "drain" into. The wing tanks are vented and the header tank is not. The header tank feed the Gascolator which will feed the fuel pumps which pressurize the MPI fuel rail which ends in a regulator that connects back to the header tank. The header tank is NOT vented except for a schrader valve to bleed off air. I don't have this hooked up yet. Comments? Tom wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" The 801 has vented caps and will be different from the xl because of the high wing versus low wing disign of the --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:13 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: to pledge or not to pledge --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- As much as I agree with the original post, I have to agree with Carlos. Let's all leave geopolitics to our respective elected representatives. I don't know who elects them because I sure didn't vote for them, but.......... Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: Zenith-List: to pledge or not to pledge > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > If you mean US, not all of us are there. > > How would you like people from around the world posting their respective > Allegiance equivalents > here? > > It certainly would be interesting, but this is not the place: > This is a Zenith forum. Nothing else. > > Respectfuly > > Carlos Sa > Montreal, Canada > do not archive > > --- James Ferris a crit : > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris >> >> When in Rome, do as the Romans! when in America, do as >> the Americans! >> >> --- Geoff Heap wrote: > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:46 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Zenith-List: Tensioning Cable Question for the group. How did you determine and set the cable tension in the flight control cables? Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru From: nyterminat@aol.com Stan, Same with me, it is a very nice firewall forward package but I do not see anywhere near the 105 mph that was advertised. I have ordered strut fairings to try to squeak a little more out of it. I also enjoy the scenery below as I tour the countryside. Bob Spudis N701ZX -----Original Message----- From: PTIPTON@swmail.sw.org Sent: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for Jabiru Stan: The combination they are referring to is the 701/912ULS. It gets a higher cruise with a combination of the airbox to get the full 100HP and a more aerodynamic cowl. Danny at Skyshop would be more than willing to tell you about it. PS - I have not been able to get 105 MPH cruise. I might be able to get that if I change the prop pitch, but I am more than happy with the combination I have. A good combination of get off the ground and slower cruise... I'm not usually in a hurry to go anywhere. 321PT ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru From: nyterminat@aol.com I concur, 90mph is about the best except when you push that stick forward. Bob Spudis -----Original Message----- From: john.marzulli@gmail.com Sent: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru Zenith's site lists 110MPH as VNE Realistically I think 90MPH is VNWE... aka Never Will Exceed. On 10/4/06, J=C3=B3hann Gestur < joeing701@internet.is> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= < joeing701@internet.is> Hello list members. I thought the VNE for Zenith 701 is 90mph. Has this changed with the new kits? If not, what is the purpose of getting a higher speed than the never exceed speed? Is that safe? Just curious. Regards,http://forum================== == ; -Matt Dralle, Lisntribution"> -- John Marzulli CH701 in Seattle Wings and tanks on order! http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot har der to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security t ools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, fr ee AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:12 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Tensioning Cable The commercial tension gauges cost hundreds of dollars..As usual Larry McFarland had a nice solution: www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tension0.gif www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tension3.gif www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tension4.gif www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tenscalbrate.gif -- Craig ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FWF kit for JabiruFWF kit for Jabiru From: "billmileski" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "billmileski" Actually, believe it or not, I can obtain 110mph in level flight with a 912S and a Woodcomp fixed pitch propeller. I don't think this is a safe regime in which to operate, but what's nice, is an easy cruise of 80-85mph at 4800rpm or so. I have heard that this propeller is the main reason, but I have no experience with other setups, so who knows. Maybe I have "reflex" in my flaperon position relative to others or something. And I haven't rigorously verified with a GPS and triangular course, but have "loosely" verified using opposing courses several times, so that I'm likely within 5mph of reality. Again, I did this just during test phase and don't recommend operating there. And this is IAS at less than 3500' msl. Bill Mileski > > I concur, 90mph is about the best except when you push that stick forward. > > Bob Spudis > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65902#65902 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: From: Grant Corriveau http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7239242995971908820 this time with the link!! sorry, ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Now I can sell my plane ;-) From: Grant Corriveau Check this out... no need to even leave the ground! Fuel is really cheap, no flight planning to bother with, and you can fly just about anywhere - and no one's the wiser.... hmmmm ------------------------------- grant.corriveau@telus.net --------------------------------------- The Wings Stayed On! http://aluwings.blogspirit.com ---------------------------------------