Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:21 AM - Re Vortec generators (Hans)
2. 02:09 AM - Re: Re Vortec generators (n801bh@netzero.com)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (Rick R)
4. 05:23 AM - Re: Wanted to Buy (Al Young)
5. 06:35 AM - Re: Re Vortec generators (n801bh@netzero.com)
6. 06:59 AM - Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? (LarryMcFarland)
7. 07:52 AM - Re: 701 Cruise performance (was FWF kit for Jabiru) (billmileski)
8. 07:58 AM - Re: Demo (Rosalie DeMeo)
9. 08:10 AM - Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (MacDonald Doug)
10. 08:29 AM - CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (Ken Arnold)
11. 08:31 AM - Re: Demo (Craig Payne)
12. 05:39 PM - Cork gasket sealant? (Tim Juhl)
13. 06:11 PM - Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (Chuck Deiterich)
14. 07:43 PM - Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? (Ron Lendon)
15. 07:55 PM - Re: Cork gasket sealant? (Trevor Page)
16. 08:11 PM - Re: Cork gasket sealant? (Dave Ruddiman)
17. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? (Craig Payne)
18. 09:19 PM - Clecos Wanted (Matt Stecher)
19. 10:15 PM - Re: Clecos Wanted (Jim and Lucy)
20. 10:49 PM - 701 airfoil and VG's (Bruno Wright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re Vortec generators |
Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701, 3 years ago I have flown 450
hr, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the
bottom of my horizontal stabilizer I am very happy with the performance
and the fuel consumption .
Have a look at the website from John Gilpin www.stolspeed.com. very
informative and great reading. Have fun.
Cheers, Hans van Santen . Australia .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re Vortec generators |
I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even close to
the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure by removi
ng the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would effectiv
ly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different beast in t
hat area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installed a "HUGE
" motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... <G>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Hans" <harina@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701, 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr
, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the bo
ttom of my horizontal stabilizer I am very happy with the performance an
d the fuel consumption .Have a look at the website from John Gilpin www
.stolspeed.com. very informative and great reading. Have fun. Cheers, H
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<html><P>I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even
close to the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure
by removing the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would
effectivly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different b
east in that area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installe
d a "HUGE" motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... <G><BR
></P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair.com
<BR><BR>-- "Hans" <harina@bigpond.net.au> wrote:<BR
></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701
, 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and
put VG on my wings and on the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer I am v
ery happy with the performance and the fuel consumption .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Have a look at the website from Jo
hn Gilpin <A href="http://www.stolspeed.com/">www.stolspeed.com<
/A>. very informative and great reading. Have fun.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers, Hans van Santen .&nb
sp; Australia . </FONT> </DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier ne
w,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru |
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote: Ken,
Let me plug Jon's latest video at:
http://www.homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm
It may help your decision making......
Low & Slow
At 02:52 PM 10/6/2006, you wrote:
Hi List,
I am making final decision for engine to install on 701. My local DAR recommends
the Jab 3300 over the 912S. His position is that the Jab is easier to maintain,
is less complex and has fewer change orders. Until today, I have assumed
the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the engine of choice for many of
the LSA manufacturers.
My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an occasional x-country
to the Midwest. Eventually, I would like to install floats for some added
thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit from the 100hp.
I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.
Regards,
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wanted to Buy |
Larry- My XL will be up for sale in the very near future. Contact me
off list for full details. It's being painted today. Regards, Al Young
Armyret@mchsi.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Edson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wanted to Buy
I'm interested in purchasing a completed and flying 601XL or HD with
tricycle landing gear. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me.
Thanks,
Larry Edson
**********************************************************************
Confidentiality Notice
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended
for
use only by the person(s) or organization listed in the address. If
you have
received this communication in error, please contact the sender at
O'Neil &
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Re Vortec generators |
Oops. On futher thought the center of "lift" will more aft, not the CG,
It was late.... sorry.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even close to
the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure by removi
ng the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would effectiv
ly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different beast in t
hat area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installed a "HUGE
" motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... <G>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Hans" <harina@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701, 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr
, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the bo
ttom of my horizontal stabilizer I am very happy with the performance an
d the fuel consumption .Have a look at the website from John Gilpin www
.stolspeed.com. very informative and great reading. Have fun. Cheers, H
ans van Santen . Australia . ==============
======================">http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List==========
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==tronics.com===================
=================ics.com=====
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<html><P>Oops. On futher thought the center of "lift" will more aft, not
the CG, It was late.... sorry.</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
wrote:<BR></P>
<P>I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even close
to the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure by rem
oving the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would effec
tivly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different beast i
n that area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installed a "H
UGE" motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... <G><BR></P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair.com
<BR><BR>-- "Hans" <harina@bigpond.net.au> wrote:<BR
></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701
, 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and
put VG on my wings and on the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer I am v
ery happy with the performance and the fuel consumption .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Have a look at the website from Jo
hn Gilpin <A href="http://www.stolspeed.com/">www.stolspeed.com<
/A>. very informative and great reading. Have fun.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers, Hans van Santen .&nb
sp; Australia . </FONT> </DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier ne
w,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
========================
===========
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
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===========
tronics.com</A>
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===========
ics.com</A>
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www.matronics.com/contribution</A>
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===========
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000 size=2>
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">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
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tronics.com</A>
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ics.com</A>
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Craig,
The back angle which is 7 degrees has to be filed so that from the end
of the 1/16 inch radius there
begins a round notch of 3/8 inch or so. It's easily done with a round
file and should be something
like 45 degrees. Socket extension makes a good tool for banging in
final crimping. I used a cone
shaped stone in a Dremel tool to quickly put in the notches and filed
them as needed.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/12gsafety.gif
See the image of my top bulkheads and the crimps with flanges forward.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Wow, thanks for the detailed reply! One thing I'm still fuzzy on are the
>notches in the forming block. What radius are they? Do they extend through
>the entire thickness of the block? Or vary from their maximum radius on the
>side of the block away from the metal to nothing on the working face? Do I
>just file them into the form with a round file? Dave Clay's web site show
>him tapping the metal into a notch using the shaft of a socket extension.
>That would imply a radius of a bit more than that shaft:
>
>www.daves601xl.com/Wings/wings2/rib1/rib2/rib3/rib7.html
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Cruise performance (was FWF kit for Jabiru) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "billmileski" <mileski@sonalysts.com>
Yes, I was aware of the error in the simpler setup of static venting to cabin,
and I have an external static port as well. But it seems good to also try and
validate an ASI with a GPS if possible.
Bill Mileski
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66362#66362
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo <rosestar@sonic.net>
If you are in Northern California at any time, Michael Heintz (Chris'
son) has a demonstrator at Quality Sports Planes in Cloverdale,
California. It's "Ole No. 1", (Chris' personal 601XL) and fun to fly.
Brad DeMeo
Darrell Haas wrote:
> I would like to take that big step and join the ranks of Zenith
> builders. Before building one I would like to fly in one. If you are
> near Troutdale ( Portland) Oregon and would be willing to give my wife
> and I a test ride in a 601 XL I would appreciate it. Contact me off
> the list at darrellhaas@verizon.net
> <mailto:darrellhaas@verizon.net> and we can work out something
> regarding gas etc.
> Thank you,
> Darrell
> Phone 503-465-9572
>
> Do not archive
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
Quote
>My mission will be slow cruising around the local
>area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest.
>Eventually, I would like to install floats for some
>added thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit from
>the 100hp.
End Quote
I am about a month or so away from having to make the
same power decision. I like the looks of the Jabiru
engine and the fact that it is simpler with the the
direct drive.
The problem with the Jabiru is that it was designed
with a faster airframe in mind. All of Jabiru's
airframes are faster and cleaner than the 701. The
CH-701 was designed around a larger diameter prop the
Rotax can deliver due it's redrive. I really don't
want to reward Rotax for what I feel is price gouging
but they do have a niche in the market. You will also
want the longer prop if you are thinking floats.
Longer props are more efficient (I understand) at
lower speeds. When trying to get up on step, you need
all of the low end grunt you can get.
For these reasons I am leaning towards the Rotax
912ULS. Now I just need to figure out how to come up
with $20,000 for the engine and all of the
"accessories". Ouch!
Doug MacDonald
NW Ontario, Canada
CH-701 Scratch builder
Starting the cabin area today.
Do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 10
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| Subject: | CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru |
Good Morning Listers,
Many thanks for the good responses. The Ch701 STOL capabilities depend
upon swinging a large prop at about 2800rpm. This enhances takeoffs
with floats from a tight lake setting. So...............
1. The Jab 3300 needs to turn at about 3800rpm. This speed requires a
short prop. One point for Rotax.
2. Most agree the Jab is a great engine for the 601 and its mission.
They also agree maintenance should be easier and cheaper. One point for
Jabiru.
3. Manufacturers such as Cessna appear to be leaning towards the 912
series. None of the responders indicated they were flying a 701 behind
a Jab.
Conclusion: I have decided to install the 912S. Zenith has all the
parts identified and it is a proven configuration. The ultimate point
is getting STOL performance with floats. The final decision on panel
contents awaits further analysis. At the moment, the Grand Rapids
engine monitoring system.
Many thanks for your inputs. I feel much better about the game plan.
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Arnold
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:52 PM
Subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru
Hi List,
I am making final decision for engine to install on 701. My local DAR
recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S. His position is that the Jab is
easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders. Until
today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the
engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers.
My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an
occasional x-country to the Midwest. Eventually, I would like to
install floats for some added thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit
from the 100hp.
I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.
Regards,
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
And just down the road in Santa Rose is Dragonfly Aviation where you can get
instruction in Bob Archibald's 601XL. Since Michael's is a Y stick and Bob's
has dual sticks flying both would allow you to compare the two
configurations. But according to Michael #1 can only stay at QSP for a few
months as it has a Canadian registration.
-- Craig
Message 12
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| Subject: | Cork gasket sealant? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I decided to install capacitance type fuel senders in my XL's 15 gallon fuel tanks.
They will be mounted in the OB ends and bent to give the proper level indications.
The senders are supplied with a cork gasket. The instructions don't say anything
about using any sealant. I contacted the retailer, he said "some folks do,
some don't." I wanted to get the consensus of the group as to whether a sealant
should be used and if so, what is recommended?
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66446#66446
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru |
I fly my 701 behind a Jabiru 2200, as do several others, and like it
just fine.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Arnold
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru
Good Morning Listers,
Many thanks for the good responses. The Ch701 STOL capabilities
depend upon swinging a large prop at about 2800rpm. This enhances
takeoffs with floats from a tight lake setting. So...............
1. The Jab 3300 needs to turn at about 3800rpm. This speed requires
a short prop. One point for Rotax.
2. Most agree the Jab is a great engine for the 601 and its mission.
They also agree maintenance should be easier and cheaper. One point for
Jabiru.
3. Manufacturers such as Cessna appear to be leaning towards the 912
series. None of the responders indicated they were flying a 701 behind
a Jab.
Conclusion: I have decided to install the 912S. Zenith has all the
parts identified and it is a proven configuration. The ultimate point
is getting STOL performance with floats. The final decision on panel
contents awaits further analysis. At the moment, the Grand Rapids
engine monitoring system.
Many thanks for your inputs. I feel much better about the game plan.
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Arnold
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:52 PM
Subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru
Hi List,
I am making final decision for engine to install on 701. My local
DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S. His position is that the Jab
is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders.
Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be
the engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers.
My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an
occasional x-country to the Midwest. Eventually, I would like to
install floats for some added thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit
from the 100hp.
I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.
Regards,
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Here are a couple of links where I show the process I used in making all my forms.
and
and this one for the crimp locations
Hope that helps.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66457#66457
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cork gasket sealant? |
Tim do yourself a favour and seal it up with some Proseal. Don't
trust the cork gaskets like I did. I ended up with a fuel leak in the
cockpit...
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 7, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Tim Juhl wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>
> I decided to install capacitance type fuel senders in my XL's 15
> gallon fuel tanks. They will be mounted in the OB ends and bent to
> give the proper level indications.
>
> The senders are supplied with a cork gasket. The instructions
> don't say anything about using any sealant. I contacted the
> retailer, he said "some folks do, some don't." I wanted to get the
> consensus of the group as to whether a sealant should be used and
> if so, what is recommended?
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66446#66446
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Cork gasket sealant? |
I used some tank sealer on my 801 that I got from Van's Aircraft (which
is about 20 minutes from here). They don't have Proseal anymore, but the
looks and smells just like it. AC-240 B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevor Page
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cork gasket sealant?
Tim do yourself a favour and seal it up with some Proseal. Don't trust
the cork gaskets like I did. I ended up with a fuel leak in the
cockpit...
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 7, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Tim Juhl wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I decided to install capacitance type fuel senders in my XL's 15
gallon fuel tanks. They will be mounted in the OB ends and bent to give
the proper level indications.
The senders are supplied with a cork gasket. The instructions
don't say anything about using any sealant. I contacted the retailer,
he said "some folks do, some don't." I wanted to get the consensus of
the group as to whether a sealant should be used and if so, what is
recommended?
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66446#66446
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Thanks. But unless you used invisible ink the links didn't make it into the
message.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lendon
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Here are a couple of links where I show the process I used in making all my
forms.
and
and this one for the crimp locations
Hope that helps.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66457#66457
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" <mrcc1234@sbcglobal.net>
I am tooling up for my great adventure and am not seeing any deals for
clecos out there. Is anyone finished with the build and willing to part
with some?
Please give me a ring off list and we can haggle.
Thanks,
Matt
XL Tail and Corvair
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Clecos Wanted |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 12:17 AM 10/8/2006, you wrote:
>not seeing any deals for
>clecos out there.
cleco deal
http://www.countrysidewalk.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=C&Category_Code=TSUTCL
Message 20
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| Subject: | 701 airfoil and VG's |
Hi, New to the list
I have been looking for a dxf or dwg file of the NACA 64018 airfoil that the
701 uses. A search of the web does not produce anything. Anyone know where I
could get hold of it?
I am building my second 701. After reading about the changes made to the
Savanah wing with extended nose rib, no slats and installed vg's and the
results of some other Ausie pilots (www.stolspeed.com) after removing their
slats and installing vg's I would like to compare the profile of the
existing wing with the original NACA 64018. I was contemplating the
retracting slat wing from Pegastol but it seems to be unavailable and may
not provide much benefit.
It would seem that using the original profile with VG's would produce a STOL
wing with better top end performance. Any comments?
Regards
Bruno
Scratch building in Canberra
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