---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/07/06: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Re Vortec generators (Hans) 2. 02:09 AM - Re: Re Vortec generators (n801bh@netzero.com) 3. 04:27 AM - Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (Rick R) 4. 05:23 AM - Re: Wanted to Buy (Al Young) 5. 06:35 AM - Re: Re Vortec generators (n801bh@netzero.com) 6. 06:59 AM - Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? (LarryMcFarland) 7. 07:52 AM - Re: 701 Cruise performance (was FWF kit for Jabiru) (billmileski) 8. 07:58 AM - Re: Demo (Rosalie DeMeo) 9. 08:10 AM - Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (MacDonald Doug) 10. 08:29 AM - CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (Ken Arnold) 11. 08:31 AM - Re: Demo (Craig Payne) 12. 05:39 PM - Cork gasket sealant? (Tim Juhl) 13. 06:11 PM - Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru (Chuck Deiterich) 14. 07:43 PM - Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? (Ron Lendon) 15. 07:55 PM - Re: Cork gasket sealant? (Trevor Page) 16. 08:11 PM - Re: Cork gasket sealant? (Dave Ruddiman) 17. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? (Craig Payne) 18. 09:19 PM - Clecos Wanted (Matt Stecher) 19. 10:15 PM - Re: Clecos Wanted (Jim and Lucy) 20. 10:49 PM - 701 airfoil and VG's (Bruno Wright) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:01 AM PST US From: "Hans" Subject: Zenith-List: Re Vortec generators Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701, 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer I am very happy with the performance and the fuel consumption . Have a look at the website from John Gilpin www.stolspeed.com. very informative and great reading. Have fun. Cheers, Hans van Santen . Australia . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:25 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re Vortec generators I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even close to the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure by removi ng the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would effectiv ly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different beast in t hat area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installed a "HUGE " motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Hans" wrote: Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701, 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr , so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the bo ttom of my horizontal stabilizer I am very happy with the performance an d the fuel consumption .Have a look at the website from John Gilpin www .stolspeed.com. very informative and great reading. Have fun. Cheers, H ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ==

I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even close to the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure by removing the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would effectivly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different b east in that area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installe d a "HUGE" motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... <G>

do not archive

Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "Hans" <harina@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701 , 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer I am v ery happy with the performance and the fuel consumption .
Have a look at the website from Jo hn Gilpin  www.stolspeed.com< /A>. very informative and great reading. Have fun.
 
Cheers,  Hans van Santen .&nb sp; Australia .  


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________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:28 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru Paul Mulwitz wrote: Ken, Let me plug Jon's latest video at: http://www.homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm It may help your decision making...... Low & Slow At 02:52 PM 10/6/2006, you wrote: Hi List, I am making final decision for engine to install on 701. My local DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S. His position is that the Jab is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders. Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers. My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest. Eventually, I would like to install floats for some added thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit from the 100hp. I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject. Regards, Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC Rick Sharpsburg, GA. USA http://www.n701rr.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:02 AM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wanted to Buy Larry- My XL will be up for sale in the very near future. Contact me off list for full details. It's being painted today. Regards, Al Young Armyret@mchsi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Edson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Wanted to Buy I'm interested in purchasing a completed and flying 601XL or HD with tricycle landing gear. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me. Thanks, Larry Edson ********************************************************************** Confidentiality Notice The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended for use only by the person(s) or organization listed in the address. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at O'Neil & Associates, Inc., immediately. Any copying, dissemination, or distribution of this communication, other than by the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************** ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:11 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re Vortec generators Oops. On futher thought the center of "lift" will more aft, not the CG, It was late.... sorry. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "n801bh@netzero.com" wrote: I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even close to the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure by removi ng the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would effectiv ly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different beast in t hat area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installed a "HUGE " motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Hans" wrote: Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701, 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr , so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the bo ttom of my horizontal stabilizer I am very happy with the performance an d the fuel consumption .Have a look at the website from John Gilpin www .stolspeed.com. very informative and great reading. Have fun. Cheers, H ans van Santen . Australia . ============== ======================">http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List========== ======================== ==tronics.com=================== =================ics.com===== ======================== =======www.matronics.com/contribution======= ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =====================

Oops. On futher thought the center of "lift" will more aft, not the CG, It was late.... sorry.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>  wrote:

I tip my hat to you sir, On my 801 the slat profile is not even close to the leading edge profile of the wing itself. I am pretty sure by rem oving the slats on an 801 would create a death trap. Also it would effec tivly move the CG rearward. I am guessing the 701 is a different beast i n that area. An this comment comes from a builder who has installed a "H UGE" motor in his 801, and survived,,, so far... <G>

do not archive

Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "Hans" <harina@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Hi ,I am new to the list I build my 701 , 3 years ago I have flown 450 hr, so 150 hrs ago I removed my slats and put VG on my wings and on the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer I am v ery happy with the performance and the fuel consumption .
Have a look at the website from Jo hn Gilpin  www.stolspeed.com< /A>. very informative and great reading. Have fun.
 
Cheers,  Hans van Santen .&nb sp; Australia .  


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________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:40 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On-line info on making and using form blocks? --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Craig, The back angle which is 7 degrees has to be filed so that from the end of the 1/16 inch radius there begins a round notch of 3/8 inch or so. It's easily done with a round file and should be something like 45 degrees. Socket extension makes a good tool for banging in final crimping. I used a cone shaped stone in a Dremel tool to quickly put in the notches and filed them as needed. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/12gsafety.gif See the image of my top bulkheads and the crimps with flanges forward. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Craig Payne wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >Wow, thanks for the detailed reply! One thing I'm still fuzzy on are the >notches in the forming block. What radius are they? Do they extend through >the entire thickness of the block? Or vary from their maximum radius on the >side of the block away from the metal to nothing on the working face? Do I >just file them into the form with a round file? Dave Clay's web site show >him tapping the metal into a notch using the shaft of a socket extension. >That would imply a radius of a bit more than that shaft: > >www.daves601xl.com/Wings/wings2/rib1/rib2/rib3/rib7.html > >-- Craig > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:10 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Cruise performance (was FWF kit for Jabiru) From: "billmileski" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "billmileski" Yes, I was aware of the error in the simpler setup of static venting to cabin, and I have an external static port as well. But it seems good to also try and validate an ASI with a GPS if possible. Bill Mileski Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66362#66362 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:07 AM PST US From: Rosalie DeMeo Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Demo --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo If you are in Northern California at any time, Michael Heintz (Chris' son) has a demonstrator at Quality Sports Planes in Cloverdale, California. It's "Ole No. 1", (Chris' personal 601XL) and fun to fly. Brad DeMeo Darrell Haas wrote: > I would like to take that big step and join the ranks of Zenith > builders. Before building one I would like to fly in one. If you are > near Troutdale ( Portland) Oregon and would be willing to give my wife > and I a test ride in a 601 XL I would appreciate it. Contact me off > the list at darrellhaas@verizon.net > and we can work out something > regarding gas etc. > Thank you, > Darrell > Phone 503-465-9572 > > Do not archive > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:31 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru --> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug Quote >My mission will be slow cruising around the local >area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest. >Eventually, I would like to install floats for some >added thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit from >the 100hp. End Quote I am about a month or so away from having to make the same power decision. I like the looks of the Jabiru engine and the fact that it is simpler with the the direct drive. The problem with the Jabiru is that it was designed with a faster airframe in mind. All of Jabiru's airframes are faster and cleaner than the 701. The CH-701 was designed around a larger diameter prop the Rotax can deliver due it's redrive. I really don't want to reward Rotax for what I feel is price gouging but they do have a niche in the market. You will also want the longer prop if you are thinking floats. Longer props are more efficient (I understand) at lower speeds. When trying to get up on step, you need all of the low end grunt you can get. For these reasons I am leaning towards the Rotax 912ULS. Now I just need to figure out how to come up with $20,000 for the engine and all of the "accessories". Ouch! Doug MacDonald NW Ontario, Canada CH-701 Scratch builder Starting the cabin area today. Do not archive __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:32 AM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru Good Morning Listers, Many thanks for the good responses. The Ch701 STOL capabilities depend upon swinging a large prop at about 2800rpm. This enhances takeoffs with floats from a tight lake setting. So............... 1. The Jab 3300 needs to turn at about 3800rpm. This speed requires a short prop. One point for Rotax. 2. Most agree the Jab is a great engine for the 601 and its mission. They also agree maintenance should be easier and cheaper. One point for Jabiru. 3. Manufacturers such as Cessna appear to be leaning towards the 912 series. None of the responders indicated they were flying a 701 behind a Jab. Conclusion: I have decided to install the 912S. Zenith has all the parts identified and it is a proven configuration. The ultimate point is getting STOL performance with floats. The final decision on panel contents awaits further analysis. At the moment, the Grand Rapids engine monitoring system. Many thanks for your inputs. I feel much better about the game plan. Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Arnold To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:52 PM Subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru Hi List, I am making final decision for engine to install on 701. My local DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S. His position is that the Jab is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders. Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers. My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest. Eventually, I would like to install floats for some added thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit from the 100hp. I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject. Regards, Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:37 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Demo --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" And just down the road in Santa Rose is Dragonfly Aviation where you can get instruction in Bob Archibald's 601XL. Since Michael's is a Y stick and Bob's has dual sticks flying both would allow you to compare the two configurations. But according to Michael #1 can only stay at QSP for a few months as it has a Canadian registration. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Cork gasket sealant? From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I decided to install capacitance type fuel senders in my XL's 15 gallon fuel tanks. They will be mounted in the OB ends and bent to give the proper level indications. The senders are supplied with a cork gasket. The instructions don't say anything about using any sealant. I contacted the retailer, he said "some folks do, some don't." I wanted to get the consensus of the group as to whether a sealant should be used and if so, what is recommended? Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66446#66446 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:23 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru I fly my 701 behind a Jabiru 2200, as do several others, and like it just fine. Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Arnold To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:28 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru Good Morning Listers, Many thanks for the good responses. The Ch701 STOL capabilities depend upon swinging a large prop at about 2800rpm. This enhances takeoffs with floats from a tight lake setting. So............... 1. The Jab 3300 needs to turn at about 3800rpm. This speed requires a short prop. One point for Rotax. 2. Most agree the Jab is a great engine for the 601 and its mission. They also agree maintenance should be easier and cheaper. One point for Jabiru. 3. Manufacturers such as Cessna appear to be leaning towards the 912 series. None of the responders indicated they were flying a 701 behind a Jab. Conclusion: I have decided to install the 912S. Zenith has all the parts identified and it is a proven configuration. The ultimate point is getting STOL performance with floats. The final decision on panel contents awaits further analysis. At the moment, the Grand Rapids engine monitoring system. Many thanks for your inputs. I feel much better about the game plan. Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Arnold To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:52 PM Subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru Hi List, I am making final decision for engine to install on 701. My local DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S. His position is that the Jab is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders. Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers. My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest. Eventually, I would like to install floats for some added thrills. Floats, of course, will benefit from the 100hp. I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject. Regards, Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:52 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Here are a couple of links where I show the process I used in making all my forms. and and this one for the crimp locations Hope that helps. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66457#66457 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:16 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cork gasket sealant? Tim do yourself a favour and seal it up with some Proseal. Don't trust the cork gaskets like I did. I ended up with a fuel leak in the cockpit... Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Oct 7, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > I decided to install capacitance type fuel senders in my XL's 15 > gallon fuel tanks. They will be mounted in the OB ends and bent to > give the proper level indications. > > The senders are supplied with a cork gasket. The instructions > don't say anything about using any sealant. I contacted the > retailer, he said "some folks do, some don't." I wanted to get the > consensus of the group as to whether a sealant should be used and > if so, what is recommended? > > Tim > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66446#66446 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:46 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cork gasket sealant? I used some tank sealer on my 801 that I got from Van's Aircraft (which is about 20 minutes from here). They don't have Proseal anymore, but the looks and smells just like it. AC-240 B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Trevor Page To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cork gasket sealant? Tim do yourself a favour and seal it up with some Proseal. Don't trust the cork gaskets like I did. I ended up with a fuel leak in the cockpit... Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Oct 7, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I decided to install capacitance type fuel senders in my XL's 15 gallon fuel tanks. They will be mounted in the OB ends and bent to give the proper level indications. The senders are supplied with a cork gasket. The instructions don't say anything about using any sealant. I contacted the retailer, he said "some folks do, some don't." I wanted to get the consensus of the group as to whether a sealant should be used and if so, what is recommended? Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66446#66446 - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - --> http://wiki.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution --> http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com =========== ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:52 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Thanks. But unless you used invisible ink the links didn't make it into the message. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lendon Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On-line info on making and using form blocks? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Here are a couple of links where I show the process I used in making all my forms. and and this one for the crimp locations Hope that helps. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66457#66457 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:10 PM PST US From: "Matt Stecher" Subject: Zenith-List: Clecos Wanted --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" I am tooling up for my great adventure and am not seeing any deals for clecos out there. Is anyone finished with the build and willing to part with some? Please give me a ring off list and we can haggle. Thanks, Matt XL Tail and Corvair ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:37 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Clecos Wanted --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy At 12:17 AM 10/8/2006, you wrote: >not seeing any deals for >clecos out there. cleco deal http://www.countrysidewalk.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=C&Category_Code=TSUTCL ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:49 PM PST US From: "Bruno Wright" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 airfoil and VG's Hi, New to the list I have been looking for a dxf or dwg file of the NACA 64018 airfoil that the 701 uses. A search of the web does not produce anything. Anyone know where I could get hold of it? I am building my second 701. After reading about the changes made to the Savanah wing with extended nose rib, no slats and installed vg's and the results of some other Ausie pilots (www.stolspeed.com) after removing their slats and installing vg's I would like to compare the profile of the existing wing with the original NACA 64018. I was contemplating the retracting slat wing from Pegastol but it seems to be unavailable and may not provide much benefit. It would seem that using the original profile with VG's would produce a STOL wing with better top end performance. Any comments? Regards Bruno Scratch building in Canberra