---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/10/06: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Nose gear bungees (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 04:04 AM - Fuel Sensor (Zed Smith) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: "Stretched" aluminum (N5SL) 4. 06:19 AM - Matco brakes,first time fill or bleed,helpful hint (Geoff Heap) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: "Stretched" aluminum (LarryMcFarland) 6. 06:56 AM - Free 701 forms (Geoff Heap) 7. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Weight on the Little wing/Nose gear bungees (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 8. 07:22 AM - Re: Anyone know about an optical fuel sensor? () 9. 08:22 AM - Re: Free 701 forms (Roger Venables) 10. 08:51 AM - Re: GSC propeller and CH701 (Jari Kaija) 11. 08:54 AM - Re: Free 701 forms (Zed Smith) 12. 09:39 AM - Re: Free 701 forms (Dino Bortolin) 13. 10:04 AM - Re: Fuel Sensor (Noel Loveys) 14. 10:33 AM - Re: Free 701 forms (Geoff Heap) 15. 10:49 AM - Lifting nose for gear service (Grant Corriveau) 16. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Nose gear bungees (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 17. 12:18 PM - Re: Free 701 forms (Geoff Heap) 18. 02:33 PM - Re: Free 701 forms (David Mikesell) 19. 02:42 PM - Re: Lifting nose for gear service (Noel Loveys) 20. 03:26 PM - Re: "Stretched" aluminum (Ron Ellis) 21. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: GSC propeller and CH701 (Gary Gower) 22. 06:13 PM - Re: "Stretched" aluminum (Aaron Gustafson) 23. 06:32 PM - Re: "Stretched" aluminum (Jaybannist@cs.com) 24. 08:58 PM - Re: run-on engine? (Peter Chapman) 25. 09:46 PM - Vs: Re: Re: GSC propeller and CH701 (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com) 26. 10:11 PM - Re: Lifting nose for gear service (Gary Gower) 27. 11:12 PM - Re: Re: Nose gear bungees (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:31 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Nose gear bungees --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz It seems to me that holding the tail down with the tie down ring would be certain to be safe. Paul XL fuselage do not archive >I don't want to win a Darwin award - save me from that. > >I place the sandbags at the root of the elevator, not at the outboard >ends. I will not use the sandbags if it will cause damage. I obviously, >don't think that placing 120 pounds of sand on the root of the elevator >will damage the elevator. I want to know if I'm wrong. Two G steep turns >must place more than 120 pounds of apparent weight on the elevator. I >agree that in flight the CG is forward of the landing gear and less force >is needed to lift the nose. But, on takeoff I tend to pull to lift the nose, >the 601XL is nose heavy, and that must take about the same force as >lifting the nose at rest - the wheels are still on the ground. The >'weight' on the elevator needed to rotate the nose during takeoff must be >close to 120 pounds. The wing is carrying some of the weight, but the >engine still must be lifted. > >I have a structural engineering type friend whom I will ask to do some >calculations. I'd like some calculations to show how much apparent weight >is on the elevator at takeoff and in a 2G turn. He has examined the wings >and has found that the 6G loading design is accurate. > >Joe E >N633Z @ BFI >CH601XL 400 hours (and hoping for more) >do not archive > >P.S. I will use O2 above 12,500 feet, I've been to 17,400. > > >On Mon, 9 Oct 2006, Klaus Truemper wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Klaus Truemper > > ......snip > > The use of sandbags on the horizontal stabilizer to lift the nose gear > > is not such a good idea. One might argue that this okay since the > > horizontal stabilizer/elevator must lift the nose gear on takeoff. But > > when the plane rotates on takeoff, the wings already carry almost all > > of the weight of the airplane. Thus, the horizontal stabilizer/elevator > > force needed for rotation on takeoff is much, much smaller than the > > force needed to lift the nose gear while parked. Cessna some years ago > > had failures of the horizontal stabilizer spar of the 152 because > > people would push down on the elevevator to lift the nose gear when > > parking the plane in a tight spot. > > Best wishes, Klaus Truemper > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:17 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sensor --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Optical/visual/mechanical/whatever.....my first impression is that I would USE the OUTBOARD fuel first. The only good reason I can come up with at the moment is for structrual considerations. Sure seems that the location of the mass of the fuel needs to be as near the wing root as possible; therefore emptying the outboard tanks leaves those inboard full and closer to centerline of the aircraft. Maybe some FE will inject a discourse on fuel management. Remember.....in the old WWII movies they always dropped the tip tanks. Regards to all fans of Scotch Brite Pads, Zed/701/R912/90++%/etc/do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:14 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stretched" aluminum Jay - I used a shrinker and it came out pretty good. Larry M. always has g reat ideas and I'd use his idea of hammering on the back side if you don't have access to a shrinker. If you are building an XL you won't have the fu selage flashing. =0A=0AThe shrinker leaves little "teeth" marks but they e asily sand out. =0A=0AKeep up the good work,=0AScott Laughlin=0A610XL/Corv air=0ASee my engine running here:=0Ahttp://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos.html =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Jaybannist@cs.com" =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, October 9, 200 6 8:12:48 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stretched" aluminum=0A=0ALarry, T hanks for the advise. I'll probably start over and do it right this time. =0A=0A=0A=0AI am surprised about your comment regarding "the piece to conn ect the fuselage skin to the wing." My kit has a rubber fairing strip. Ha s something changed? Or is this just a better way to do it?=0A=0A=0A=0AJay =========================0A ========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Matco brakes,first time fill or bleed,helpful hint From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Thanks to listers help I filled my brakes up for $0.00 I used a regular (old fashioned) oil can with a thumb operated pump and 14" of ZAC supplied 1/4" od brake/pitot line. I had nothing that would fit the bleed nipple. The nipple is .190 dia, and the ZAC hose is .170 inside dia so would not fit. I held the 14" piece of hose in a vice and reamed the ID to .190 to about 3/8" deep. It cuts nice and there is nothing to debur. Just blow the dust out of the tube. It is then a tight fit on the bleed nipple. A 3/16" reamer may work (.1875). The tip of my oilcan is conical and I just held it against the other end of the tube and pumped. Couldn't believe how easy it was. Not a drop of air, all red. I bought DEXRON ATF and cleaned out the oilcan well. Geoff Heap 701/dual controls/need eng and inst Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66914#66914 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:14 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stretched" aluminum --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Jay, I forgot you are doing an XL and my HDS has this kind of structural to connect to a permanent center section. Larry do not archive Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > Larry, Thanks for the advise. I'll probably start over and do it > right this time. > > I am surprised about your comment regarding "the piece to connect the > fuselage skin to the wing." My kit has a rubber fairing strip. Has > something changed? Or is this just a better way to do it? > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Free 701 forms From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" I know a lot of guys are hands on and are not intimidated by building forms but some out there dont want to get into it. I am fed up with storing my old forms and am willing to give them to anyone who is willing to pay the shipping (one way. I dont want them back). They are heavier than the usual forms. I made them from thick 6061 T6 aluminum. They WILL last forever. I made them on my CNC milling machine so believe it or not I made them with almost no effort, in fact it was fun. I ran a cubic spline through the DWG values and ran toolpaths. After milling to spec I ran a 7degee tapered endmill around them for the springback angle and then a 1/8 corner rounding tool. They are extremely precise and the tooling holes are in all forms. I made all my ribs and there is no wear on the forms. I think the whole bunch weigh about 70 lbs. Main wing ribs left and right. Nose wing ribs left and right. One double sided wing root rib makes both left and right but with no springback cut into it. Flaperon nose rib. Flaperon rear rib. Flaperon full rib. Slat ribs left and right. Horizontal tail. Rudder tip. I dont think I made the other rudder forms for the ribs in the main body of the rudder. There are no grooves for the crimps so they came off looking like bananas. Some one could file the crimps into the forms but I didnt miss them. Crimping tool straightened them out perfectly. It would be nice to offer them back to the Zenith list when youve finished with them. Geoff Heap 701/dual controls/need eng and inst/ do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66923#66923 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:14 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Weight on the Little wing/Nose gear bungees Joe, I believe our concern is not whether the structure can hold up, but the concern is why make it necessary to wonder ? My concern would be that it is so easy to get the front wheel off the concrete with a tilt stand and a small jack why risk damage to the little wing. Second, even if the elevator/stablizer can hold up 200 pounds okay consider the damage that could occur when placing and removing such weights. If accomplished unevenly, 60 pounds on one root could certainly damage thin metal. Plus the skin metal is pretty thin back there and could receive surface damage. And all this instead of placing the front on a stand. It's your plane, fly and maintain however you want. I will be happy to send you a photo of the tilt stand I built in about 30 minutes that would be an alternative option. Let me know, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:58 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Anyone know about an optical fuel sensor? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Aren't the tops of the outboard tanks higher than the internal opening of the vent tube on the inboard tanks because of the dihedral angle? If so, the vent of the inboard tank will jettison fuel until the level in the outboard tank falls below its internal end. It seems to me that the system has to have a valve to isolate the outboard tank from the inboard one. Ed Moody II ---- Noel Loveys wrote: > > Why not "T" in the outboard tanks? Then there would be no connecting, > disconnecting, or fuel spraying around the cockpit. > > I'm also thinking that thirty seconds can pass pretty fast especially if > there is any turbulence or a radio call. It could go especially fast if you > are calling downwind leg. The best thing could be to have a small header > tank, maybe a gallon, and put a float sensor on it. > > Noel > > Subject: Zenith-List: Anyone know about an optical fuel sensor? > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" > > > > > > I have the extra tanks in my 701. The only way to use all of > > the gas in my tanks is to run one set dry. Since I don't > > want my starter motor to become a required piece of hardware > > for continued flight, I need to switch tanks after I have > > used all the fuel, but before the engine quits. I am > > plumbing my fuel lines and I wanted something to tell me that > > my fuel tank has run dry. I figure that the gas in my fuel > > lines from wing, through gasolator, and to the engine will > > keep the fan going long enough for me to switch to my outboard tanks. > > > > A friend of mine put an optical sensor in his plane. This is > > an alert system. (link to aircraft spruce item here > > http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/fuelguardian.php) > > But this is a complete system, I just want a sensor like this > > that I can put in my fuel line at the wing root. If I can > > just get a contact closure then I can use my EIS to > > annunciate the warning and give me 30 seconds or more to > > switch tanks. > > Does anyone know where I can get such a sensor with just a > > contact closure? > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66837#66837 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:59 AM PST US From: "Roger Venables" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Free 701 forms --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Venables" Geoff I would like them, tell me what you need, when and how Roger Venables Kenmore, WA -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Geoff Heap Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Free 701 forms --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" I know a lot of guys are hands on and are not intimidated by building forms but some out there dont want to get into it. I am fed up with storing my old forms and am willing to give them to anyone who is willing to pay the shipping (one way. I dont want them back). They are heavier than the usual forms. I made them from thick 6061 T6 aluminum. They WILL last forever. I made them on my CNC milling machine so believe it or not I made them with almost no effort, in fact it was fun. I ran a cubic spline through the DWG values and ran toolpaths. After milling to spec I ran a 7degee tapered endmill around them for the springback angle and then a 1/8 corner rounding tool. They are extremely precise and the tooling holes are in all forms. I made all my ribs and there is no wear on the forms. I think the whole bunch weigh about 70 lbs. Main wing ribs left and right. Nose wing ribs left and right. One double sided wing root rib makes both left and right but with no springback cut into it. Flaperon nose rib. Flaperon rear rib. Flaperon full rib. Slat ribs left and right. Horizontal tail. Rudder tip. I dont think I made the other rudder forms for the ribs in the main body of the rudder. There are no grooves for the crimps so they came off looking like bananas. Some one could file the crimps into the forms but I didnt miss them. Crimping tool straightened them out perfectly. It would be nice to offer them back to the Zenith list when youve finished with them. Geoff Heap 701/dual controls/need eng and inst/ do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66923#66923 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:01 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: GSC propeller and CH701 Hmmmm... have to say, I like this prop, but it seems to be better leave it for decoration purposes after 15hrs taxiing tests. ---------------------------------- http://www.jarikaija.com http://www.project-ch701.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:53 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Free 701 forms --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Geoff!!!!! That's the nicest thing I've seen on this List in a loooooooong time! A Gold Star by your name. Regards, Zed/701/etc..............do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:29 AM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Free 701 forms --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dino Bortolin" I knew an offer like this wouldn't last long. It was almost enough to make me switch models :-) Dino Bortolin XL/Corvair - tail do not archive On 10/10/06, Roger Venables wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Venables" > > > Geoff > > I would like them, tell me what you need, when and how > > Roger Venables > Kenmore, WA > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Geoff Heap > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:56 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Free 701 forms > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > > I know a lot of guys are hands on and are not intimidated by building forms > but some out there dont want to get into it. I am fed up with storing my > old forms and am willing to give them to anyone who is willing to pay the > shipping (one way. I dont want them back). > They are heavier than the usual forms. I made them from thick 6061 T6 > aluminum. They WILL last forever. I made them on my CNC milling machine so > believe it or not I made them with almost no effort, in fact it was fun. I > ran a cubic spline through the DWG values and ran toolpaths. After milling > to spec I ran a 7degee tapered endmill around them for the springback angle > and then a 1/8 corner rounding tool. They are extremely precise and the > tooling holes are in all forms. I made all my ribs and there is no wear on > the forms. I think the whole bunch weigh about 70 lbs. > Main wing ribs left and right. Nose wing ribs left and right. One double > sided wing root rib makes both left and right but with no springback cut > into it. Flaperon nose rib. Flaperon rear rib. Flaperon full rib. Slat ribs > left and right. Horizontal tail. Rudder tip. I dont think I made the > other rudder forms for the ribs in the main body of the rudder. > There are no grooves for the crimps so they came off looking like bananas. > Some one could file the crimps into the forms but I didnt miss them. > Crimping tool straightened them out perfectly. > It would be nice to offer them back to the Zenith list when youve > finished with them. > > Geoff Heap 701/dual controls/need eng and inst/ do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66923#66923 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:24 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Sensor --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" Good reasoning. Imagine a spin with the outboard tanks full and the inboard tanks empty...Worse imagine a stall with one outboard tank full and everything else close to empty. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:34 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sensor > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > Optical/visual/mechanical/whatever.....my first impression is > that I would USE the OUTBOARD fuel first. > > The only good reason I can come up with at the moment is for > structrual considerations. > > Sure seems that the location of the mass of the fuel needs to > be as near the wing root as possible; therefore > emptying the outboard tanks leaves those inboard full and > closer to centerline of the aircraft. > > Maybe some FE will inject a discourse on fuel management. > Remember.....in the old WWII movies they always dropped the tip tanks. > > Regards to all fans of Scotch Brite Pads, > > Zed/701/R912/90++%/etc/do not archive > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Free 701 forms From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Thanks Zed. Coming from you that means nothing :) I'm getting in touch with 4 guys who responded Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66968#66968 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:54 AM PST US From: Grant Corriveau Subject: Zenith-List: Lifting nose for gear service > The use of sandbags on the horizontal stabilizer to lift the nose gear > is not > such a good idea. One might argue that this okay since the horizontal > stabilizer/elevator must lift the nose gear on takeoff. But > when the plane rotates on takeoff, the wings already > carry almost all of the weight of > the airplane. Thus, the horizontal stabilizer/elevator force > needed for rotation on takeoff is much, much > smaller than the force needed to lift the nose gear while parked. Supporting this aircraft to service the gear struts is always a challenge. How are people addressing this? I don't see the logic above. The full weight of the aircraft is still on the gear at 50 mph (especially if your airplane sits with a slightly negative, nose- down attitude). My aircraft easily rotates with full back stick at this speed. I'm more concerned about how to distribute the force on the hz stab so as to not over-stress something. Some have suggested loading weight onto the tail tie-down which bothers me even more. The full force of this weight transmits directly into the lower rudder hinge pieces... which can't be 'good'... I have to reinstall my nose gear fork soon, and right now I'm thinking about using a small beam on sawhorses under the engine/ mounts somehow. Working on a main gear unit is also 'challenging' ... saw horses and some planks under the wing? Grant Corriveau GHTF ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:53 AM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Nose gear bungees In a message dated 10/10/2006 1:56:25 AM Central Daylight Time, xl@prosody.org writes: I place the sandbags at the root of the elevator, Joe, Are you sure that you meant the elevator? Or was it the horizontal stabilizer? I would avoid placing any weight on the elevator, or any of the movable control surfaces. Jerry ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Free 701 forms From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Roger. my email to you was returned as undeliverable. please contact me off list at stol10@comcast.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66992#66992 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:26 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Free 701 forms --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" I will take them, please contact me by email. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Heap" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Free 701 forms > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > > I know a lot of guys are hands on and are not intimidated by building forms but some out there don?Tt want to get into it. I am fed up with storing my old forms and am willing to give them to anyone who is willing to pay the shipping (one way. I don?Tt want them back). > They are heavier than the usual forms. I made them from ? thick 6061 T6 aluminum. They WILL last forever. I made them on my CNC milling machine so believe it or not I made them with almost no effort, in fact it was fun. I ran a cubic spline through the DWG values and ran toolpaths. After milling to spec I ran a 7degee tapered endmill around them for the springback angle and then a 1/8? corner rounding tool. They are extremely precise and the tooling holes are in all forms. I made all my ribs and there is no wear on the forms. I think the whole bunch weigh about 70 lbs. > Main wing ribs left and right. Nose wing ribs left and right. One double sided wing root rib makes both left and right but with no springback cut into it. Flaperon nose rib. Flaperon rear rib. Flaperon full rib. Slat ribs left and right. Horizontal tail. Rudder tip. I don?Tt think I made the other rudder forms for the ribs in the main body of the rudder. > There are no grooves for the crimps so they came off looking like bananas. Some one could file the crimps into the forms but I didn?Tt miss them. Crimping tool straightened them out perfectly. > It would be nice to offer them back to the Zenith list when you?Tve finished with them. > > Geoff Heap 701/dual controls/need eng and inst/ do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66923#66923 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:47 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lifting nose for gear service You might consider putting a couple of jack hard points directly under the front spar ahead of the mains. Then tie down the tail before you jack on your installed spar hard points. You will have to use less weight on the tail if you have a bit of weight inside the tail of the fuselage. Also it is a good idea to have two people jack the aircraft at the same time to keep it level laterally and reduce the chance of falling off the jacks. Once up you will be surprised how solid it will be. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant Corriveau Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Lifting nose for gear service The use of sandbags on the horizontal stabilizer to lift the nose gear is not such a good idea. One might argue that this okay since the horizontal stabilizer/elevator must lift the nose gear on takeoff. But when the plane rotates on takeoff, the wings already carry almost all of the weight of the airplane. Thus, the horizontal stabilizer/elevator force needed for rotation on takeoff is much, much smaller than the force needed to lift the nose gear while parked. Supporting this aircraft to service the gear struts is always a challenge. How are people addressing this? I don't see the logic above. The full weight of the aircraft is still on the gear at 50 mph (especially if your airplane sits with a slightly negative, nose-down attitude). My aircraft easily rotates with full back stick at this speed. I'm more concerned about how to distribute the force on the hz stab so as to not over-stress something. Some have suggested loading weight onto the tail tie-down which bothers me even more. The full force of this weight transmits directly into the lower rudder hinge pieces... which can't be 'good'... I have to reinstall my nose gear fork soon, and right now I'm thinking about using a small beam on sawhorses under the engine/mounts somehow. Working on a main gear unit is also 'challenging' ... saw horses and some planks under the wing? Grant Corriveau GHTF ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:05 PM PST US From: Ron Ellis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stretched" aluminum --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Ellis I just finished my canopy and had the same problem. I think I got a little carried away with the hammering on the first piece of flashing. The second piece I placed the bottom of the flange on an anvil, and hammered (easily) the top side with a ball pin hammer, then turned it over and with the flat side of the hammer worked the indents out. It worked ok, but like Jay said, still kind of looks like "hammered hell." I painted mine flat black, and it looks a little better, kind of hides some of the marks. I chose not to make another, because I don't think it would look much better than the first. I'll just live with it. Ron Ft Worth, TX Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > Hey folks, I just completed the fitting of the XL canopy inside > flashing. I did the "stretching" on the top flange called for in the > photo guide to make the panel curve to fit. It fits, but it looks > like "hammered hell" !!. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:08 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: GSC propeller and CH701 Is a shame to leave it for decoration only, I am sure that has lots of hours left... :-) Just give a good mantainance... Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. Jari Kaija wrote: Hmmmm... have to say, I like this prop, but it seems to be better leave it for decoration purposes after 15hrs taxiing tests. ---------------------------------- http://www.jarikaija.com http://www.project-ch701.net --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:32 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stretched" aluminum --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" Hammer? Did you ever make a ring out of a nickel by tapping on it w/ a tea spoon? Takes patience but you end up w/ a finely finished ring. Same w/ stretching aluminum! do not archive Aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Ellis" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stretched" aluminum > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Ellis > > hammered (easily) the top side with a ball pin hammer, > then turned it over and with the flat side of the > hammer worked the indents out. It worked ok, but like > Jay said, still kind of looks like "hammered hell." ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:27 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stretched" aluminum Ron, Larry McFarland wisely suggested I start over, hammering only the bottom side of the top flange, and I was going to do that. Then I realized #1 that I had already drilled the inside flashings to the canopy frame. I don't know how I could manage to hit those holes with a new flashing; and #2 I studied the back side of the top flange and it was nearly as ugly as the top! I really had to pound those flanges to get the curve I needed. I have now coated the mangled flanges with JBWeld and sanded them down to an acceptible appearance. There really must be a better way! Jay in Dallas Do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:25 PM PST US From: Peter Chapman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: run-on engine? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Chapman In a Sept 20 posting I asked about a problem with a run-on engine, on a Rotax 912 UL. As we had used good fuel, the plugs were showing the right colours, and the problem continued during cooler fall weather, we started to suspect the ignition system grounding more. We had tried the suggestion of using the choke when about to cut the engine, but it wasn't enough to stop the sputtering run-on. The problem was solved by tightening a bolt on the engine, that connects an ignition electronics ground wire to the engine (actually to one intake manifold I think). The bolt wasn't obviously loose, or loose to the touch -- the bolt only tightened up an eighth of a turn or less. This minor change was clearly the solution, as the engine was run a couple times shortly before and shortly after. The run-on disappeared completely. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:59 PM PST US Subject: Vs: Re: Zenith-List: Re: GSC propeller and CH701 From: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com > Is a shame to leave it for decoration only, I am sure that has lots of hours left... :-) Just give a good mantainance... ;-) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:00 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lifting nose for gear service I dont remember if this post is about the 701 or the 601... Probably I didnt pay atention... my apologies. In our 701, I normally (every saturday) lift the front wheel by pushing in the upper rear fuselage until the rear tie down rest on the hangar floor, in a piece of foam. The plane is almost in balance on the main gear. No "strange" forces. Then I put a stool (that fited exactly by coincidence) under the front wheel, to prevent someone to push it down. This way we wash the wings, upper rear fuselage and lexan roof very easy. There is not much force aplied. in fact I weight 65 kgs (about 145 lbs) and is a easy task, just push down gently with one arm over the rear top fuselage,Not from the stabilizer. When time comes to service the front wheel, I will certanly do it, just will fit a 4 x 2,wood, betwen the lower engine mount attachments and the floor, to prevent the fuselage to fall down (same as putting a tower when the car is lifted by the jack). I dont think there is any stress aplied to the fusselage. But if this is about the 601, (lower rear fuselage height) is another thing... (oranges and apples?).sorry for my post. Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. 701 912S. Grant Corriveau wrote: The use of sandbags on the horizontal stabilizer to lift the nose gear is not such a good idea. One might argue that this okay since the horizontal stabilizer/elevator must lift the nose gear on takeoff. But when the plane rotates on takeoff, the wings already carry almost all of the weight of the airplane. Thus, the horizontal stabilizer/elevator force needed for rotation on takeoff is much, much smaller than the force needed to lift the nose gear while parked. Supporting this aircraft to service the gear struts is always a challenge. How are people addressing this? I don't see the logic above. The full weight of the aircraft is still on the gear at 50 mph (especially if your airplane sits with a slightly negative, nose-down attitude). My aircraft easily rotates with full back stick at this speed. I'm more concerned about how to distribute the force on the hz stab so as to not over-stress something. Some have suggested loading weight onto the tail tie-down which bothers me even more. The full force of this weight transmits directly into the lower rudder hinge pieces... which can't be 'good'... I have to reinstall my nose gear fork soon, and right now I'm thinking about using a small beam on sawhorses under the engine/mounts somehow. Working on a main gear unit is also 'challenging' ... saw horses and some planks under the wing? Grant Corriveau GHTF --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:52 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Nose gear bungees --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl Yes, I meant the stabilizer. I'm told it takes 2 - 60 pound concrete blocks for a Piper TriPacer. Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XL 400 hours do not archive On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 JERICKSON03E@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/10/2006 1:56:25 AM Central Daylight Time, > xl@prosody.org writes: > 'I place the sandbags at the root of the elevator,' > Joe, Are you sure that you meant the elevator? Or was it the horizontal > stabilizer? > I would avoid placing any weight on the elevator, or any of the movable > control surfaces. > Jerry