Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:17 AM - Re: GSC propeller and CH701 (Jari Kaija)
2. 01:18 AM - Vs: Re: GSC propeller and CH701 (Jari Kaija)
3. 05:14 AM - Re: Fuel Sensor (Ryan Vechinski)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Fuel Sensor and misc (John Bolding)
5. 08:32 AM - Re: Seat Belt Attach(was Fuel Sensor and misc) (MacDonald Doug)
6. 09:35 AM - Re: Fuel Sensor ()
7. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Nose gear bungees (Noel Loveys)
8. 09:59 AM - Re: Fuel Sensor (LarryMcFarland)
9. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Weight on the Little wing/Nose gear bungees (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
10. 12:59 PM - Quality of the 601XL horizontal stabilizer tips (Todd Osborne)
11. 01:18 PM - Re: run-on engine? (Klaus Truemper)
12. 01:29 PM - Re: Quality of the 601XL horizontal stabilizer tips (Graham Kirby)
13. 03:42 PM - Re: Quality of the 601XL horizontal stabilizer tips (Tim Juhl)
14. 04:48 PM - Quality of Zenith fiberglass parts (George Swinford)
15. 05:52 PM - Re: Quality of Zenith fiberglass parts (LarryMcFarland)
16. 07:27 PM - Fiberglass parts (George Swinford)
17. 08:16 PM - Re: Fuel Sensor (Noel Loveys)
18. 08:20 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: "Stretched" aluminum (Ron Ellis)
19. 10:07 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: "Stretched" aluminum (JOHN STARN)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: GSC propeller and CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Is a shame to leave it for decoration only, I am sure that has lots of hours
left... :-) Just give a good mantainance...
>
[Laughing]
Do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=67085#67085
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Vs: Re: GSC propeller and CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
Matt
Please delete this thread... BBS forum didn't regognice Vs: in subject (= Re-in
english) and started new thread....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=67086#67086
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ryan Vechinski" <brothapig@hotmail.com>
I may be wrong here, and it may not apply to small aircraft, but doesn't
fuel in the outboard part of the wings (i.e. tip tanks) actually decrease
stress on the wings in turbulence? This is from keeping weight out of the
fuselage (wings see less weight)
I don't know how this would affect spins, but wouldn't fuel in the outboard
wing at least keep the rotation slower?
-Ryan
----Original Message Follows----
From: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sensor
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Optical/visual/mechanical/whatever.....my first impression is that I would
USE the OUTBOARD fuel first.
The only good reason I can come up with at the moment is for structrual
considerations.
Sure seems that the location of the mass of the fuel needs to be as near the
wing root as possible; therefore
emptying the outboard tanks leaves those inboard full and closer to
centerline of the aircraft.
Maybe some FE will inject a discourse on fuel management.
Remember.....in the old WWII movies they always dropped the tip tanks.
Regards to all fans of Scotch Brite Pads,
Zed/701/R912/90++%/etc/do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sensor and misc |
One of the reasons that the 701 was able to go to the higher gross
weight was the removal of the fuselage tank and use of wing tanks which
takes the bending loads off the spar. As fuel (or any weight for that
matter)is moved outboard you have to become increasingly aware of the
moment of inertia of that fuel as it relates to spin recovery.
As long as we are talking about design here someone mentioned a few days
ago that the only thing jury struts did was to prevent the struts from
vibrating. Actually the PRIMARY function of the jury struts is to
support the struts in mid span from negative loads. Tubes are a LOT
stronger in tension than compression, the aero designers I get to hang
out with use the term "long column bending load" when figuring the tube
size and jury strut location.
Below is an excerpt from a Yahoo site for 701 builders, seems like
another seat belt
attach fitting has pulled loose, imagine that, I'm sure he didn't have
the doubler as it happened a while back but the "doubler" is dubious at
best in my mind . I have a 2000# strain gauge and I think I'll fab up a
test panel with and without the doubler just for fun.
"FWIW I was having a conversation with a guy at the Rocky Mountain
Regional FlyIn this summer who said there was a guy in his EAA
Chapter who put his 701 down in a field, hit a ditch, and the
seatbelt anchor, built to plans, pulled out and he went into the
panel. This guy's view was the anchor was inadequately engineered."
If anyone knows this fellow please contact me and I'll get as many
pertinent facts as I can. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Vechinski
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 7:12 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Sensor
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ryan Vechinski"
<brothapig@hotmail.com>
I may be wrong here, and it may not apply to small aircraft, but
doesn't
fuel in the outboard part of the wings (i.e. tip tanks) actually
decrease
stress on the wings in turbulence? This is from keeping weight out of
the
fuselage (wings see less weight)
I don't know how this would affect spins, but wouldn't fuel in the
outboard
wing at least keep the rotation slower?
-Ryan
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Belt Attach(was Fuel Sensor and misc) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
Damn, John, you are really digging into this seat belt
attach thing.
Keep up the good work. I'd be interested in hearing
the differences between the doubler and no doubler.
Doug MacDonald
NW Ontario, Canada
CH-701 Scratch builder
working on cabin assy (seat belts soon)
__________________________________________________
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
The farther out on the wing any weight (fuel, for instance) is located, the more
energy it takes to make it move or change its motion. The important factor is
moving mass farther from the center of mass and applies to moving weight farther
forward or farther aft of the CG as well.
Therefore moving weight to a position farther out on the wing should make the plane
more sluggish in the roll and yaw axes. Also, any established movement around
the CG in those axes (such as a spin) will require more control force to
stop and/or reverse it.
As someone else noted, it would be a great idea to burn that outboard fuel first
or leave it on the ground for short flights.
Ed Moody II
---- Ryan Vechinski <brothapig@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> I may be wrong here, and it may not apply to small aircraft, but doesn't
> fuel in the outboard part of the wings (i.e. tip tanks) actually decrease
> stress on the wings in turbulence? This is from keeping weight out of the
> fuselage (wings see less weight)
>
> I don't know how this would affect spins, but wouldn't fuel in the outboard
> wing at least keep the rotation slower?
>
> -Ryan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear bungees |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
You could also make a rope saddle to fit over the fuselage in front of the
vertical stab. Put your weight on both sides. Use plenty of weight, no
sense in having it flop forward because some one dropped a feather on the
nose.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of xl
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 3:42 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Nose gear bungees
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
>
>
> Yes, I meant the stabilizer. I'm told it takes 2 - 60 pound
> concrete blocks for a Piper TriPacer.
>
> Joe E
> N633Z @ BFI
> CH601XL 400 hours
> do not archive
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 JERICKSON03E@aol.com wrote:
> > In a message dated 10/10/2006 1:56:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > xl@prosody.org writes:
> > 'I place the sandbags at the root of the elevator,'
> > Joe, Are you sure that you meant the elevator? Or was it
> the horizontal
> > stabilizer?
> > I would avoid placing any weight on the elevator, or any of
> the movable
> > control surfaces.
> > Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Ryan,
You're correct, in your assumption about tip tanks reducing stresses in
turbulence, but to a greater degree,
the full tip tanks would reduce rate of change for any maneuver. It
might prevent you from getting the correction
needed in a spin or even an awkward landing in the critical moments that
count.
There would be a period where you have to learn what reactions you have
when empty averse full. That could
be too long a time to avoid a seriously compromised event. I'd be
reluctant to put tip tanks on a small aircraft
for the same reasons. That's also why you see them on heavier aircraft
where tip tanks are a much smaller percentage
of total weight.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Ryan Vechinski wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ryan Vechinski"
> <brothapig@hotmail.com>
>
> I may be wrong here, and it may not apply to small aircraft, but
> doesn't fuel in the outboard part of the wings (i.e. tip tanks)
> actually decrease stress on the wings in turbulence? This is from
> keeping weight out of the fuselage (wings see less weight)
>
> I don't know how this would affect spins, but wouldn't fuel in the
> outboard wing at least keep the rotation slower?
>
> -Ryan
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Weight on the Little wing/Nose gear bungees |
In a message dated 10/10/2006 9:09:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com writes:
I will be happy to send you a photo of the tilt stand I built in about 30
minutes that would be an alternative option. Let me know, Best regards, Bill of
Georgia
Bill, I would like to see the tilt stand please. Jerry
Message 10
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| Subject: | Quality of the 601XL horizontal stabilizer tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
I was looking today at the fiberglass tips for the horizontal stab
and test fitting them. The edges are way off from the factory, not
even close to straight. In fact, when I lay it on the table, there is
3/4" inch warp in them, meaning some rivets are not going to hit
anything. Are these bad from the factory, or do I have to somehow
trim them to be straight?
Todd Osborne
EMail: todd@toddtown.com
Web: www.toddtown.com
Yahoo Messenger: toddmosborne@yahoo.com
MSN Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
Skype: toddmosborne
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: run-on engine? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Klaus Truemper <klaus@utdallas.edu>
Hi,
The run-on effect can become a nasty problem if not treated promptly,
due to the violent shaking of the engine before it finally stops.
The suggested cure, tightening of the bolt holding the grounding wires
of the ignition
module, is a good idea. But the tightening may just scratch the surfaces
of the connectors a bit, thus re-establishing the desired grounding. But
this
may fail again within a few weeks due to additional corrosion. Rotax
Canada suggested years ago
a permanent fix. The idea is to remove the bolt, clean the grounding
connectors
and bolt carefully, and then reinstall everything with insulating
silicon grease.
It may sound odd that insulating grease is used. But this works, since
it keeps out the
moisture. There is also a silicon grease that conducts. That type should NOT
be used.
As for my case, even with the silicon grease, the problem kept on coming
up. Eventually
I installed a separate grounding wire that connects the bolt of the
grounding wires
with the firewall. That really solved the problem.
Best wishes,
Klaus
--
Klaus Truemper
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science
University of Texas at Dallas
Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and
Computer Science EC31
P.O. Box 830688
Richardson, TX 75083-0688
(972) 883-2712
klaus@utdallas.edu
www.utdallas.edu/~klaus
Message 12
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| Subject: | Quality of the 601XL horizontal stabilizer tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <gk@601hd.com>
Todd,
You're not the first to have this problem. I made a simple softwood form
that went inside the tip. Heated it up with a heat gun, and when it cooled
down I removed the form and and it matched the correct profile.
Graham Kirby
601HD
I was looking today at the fiberglass tips for the horizontal stab
and test fitting them. The edges are way off from the factory, not
even close to straight. In fact, when I lay it on the table, there is
3/4" inch warp in them, meaning some rivets are not going to hit
anything. Are these bad from the factory, or do I have to somehow
trim them to be straight?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Quality of the 601XL horizontal stabilizer tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I had the same issue and did what Graham recommended. Be careful with the heat
gun.... when you start to smell fiberglass it is probably hot enough.
In general the fiberglass pieces from ZAC are a poor fit. They don't make them
in house but it would be nice if they found another supplier.
Tim Juhl
Do not archive
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=67225#67225
Message 14
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| Subject: | Quality of Zenith fiberglass parts |
Does anyone know which resin those parts are made with? I have been
told that parts laid up with polyester resins are less dimensionally
stable than those using epoxy. The "bumps" supplied for my Stratus
engine cowl certainly didn't match the contour of the basic cowl. I had
to cut the whole flange away, and the large bump still wasn't usable.
I made a plywood nose rib segment to fit inside my stabilizer tips and
used a heat gun to soften them until I could force the rib segments into
place. When things cooled down the fit was good. I then discarded the
plywood pieces. I suppose that I could have epoxied them into place to
be sure that the contour stayed the same.
George
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Quality of Zenith fiberglass parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
George,
The Zenith Stratus cowling is polyester resin product. I don't think
you've got a problem with polyester resin. I removed the segment for the
bump and
reduced the size of the bump provided by doing a layup over a smaller
template. It went on fine and was reinforced by doubling the inside
area and the
narrow outside seam. No problems so far. I used a fiberglass cloth and
resin from the local Farm and Fleet.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowlcheekinstall.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/leftcheekclearance.gif
Only needed to worry about the left side being close.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
George Swinford wrote:
> Does anyone know which resin those parts are made with? I have been
> told that parts laid up with polyester resins are less dimensionally
> stable than those using epoxy. The "bumps" supplied for my Stratus
> engine cowl certainly didn't match the contour of the basic cowl. I
> had to cut the whole flange away, and the large bump still wasn't usable.
>
> George
>
> Do not archive
>
>*
>*
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fiberglass parts |
Unfortunately for me, I cut too large an opening for the bottom bump.
I'm currently making a male plug to lay up a somewhat larger bump. I'm
using Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty to seal a styrofoam plug. I don't
recommend Durham's for this purpose. It's too hard. I've actually
filed some of it. Learning is supposed to be part of the process, isn't
it?
George
Do not archive
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
It probably won't affect the speed of the spin, after all the fuel is in the
tanks at the start of the spin, but the inertia of having that heavy fuel
that far from the CG could be interesting.
Weight any where in the wings is easier on the fuselage and wing attach
points than having fuel in the fuse itself. The wings after all have to
carry the fuse not the other way around.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ryan Vechinski
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:42 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Sensor
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ryan Vechinski"
> <brothapig@hotmail.com>
>
> I may be wrong here, and it may not apply to small aircraft,
> but doesn't
> fuel in the outboard part of the wings (i.e. tip tanks)
> actually decrease
> stress on the wings in turbulence? This is from keeping
> weight out of the
> fuselage (wings see less weight)
>
> I don't know how this would affect spins, but wouldn't fuel
> in the outboard
> wing at least keep the rotation slower?
>
> -Ryan
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sensor
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 06:03:46 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> Optical/visual/mechanical/whatever.....my first impression is
> that I would
> USE the OUTBOARD fuel first.
>
> The only good reason I can come up with at the moment is for
> structrual
> considerations.
>
> Sure seems that the location of the mass of the fuel needs to
> be as near the
> wing root as possible; therefore
> emptying the outboard tanks leaves those inboard full and closer to
> centerline of the aircraft.
>
> Maybe some FE will inject a discourse on fuel management.
> Remember.....in the old WWII movies they always dropped the tip tanks.
>
> Regards to all fans of Scotch Brite Pads,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90++%/etc/do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: "Stretched" aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Ellis <rge177@yahoo.com>
Never tried the spoon trick...don't think I have that
much patience, however, a nickel placed on a train
track works great!
do not archive
>Hammer? Did you ever make a ring out of a nickel by
>tapping on it w/ a tea
>spoon? Takes patience but you end up w/ a finely
>finished ring. Same w/
>stretching aluminum! do not archive
>Aaron
__________________________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: "Stretched" aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Never tried that one, BUT would you not wind up with at least two spoons
with holes in them also ?. Makes it tough to eat soup with a "holy" spoon.
KABONG 8*) Do Not Archive....All in fun guys....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Ellis" <rge177@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: "Stretched" aluminum
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Ellis <rge177@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Never tried the spoon trick...don't think I have that
> much patience, however, a nickel placed on a train
> track works great!
>
> do not archive
>
>>Hammer? Did you ever make a ring out of a nickel by
>>tapping on it w/ a tea
>>spoon? Takes patience but you end up w/ a finely
>>finished ring. Same w/
>>stretching aluminum! do not archive
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