Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Off topic: my next airplane (JOHN STARN)
2. 01:58 AM - Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (Jari Kaija)
3. 04:51 AM - Re: 801 fuel sender inspection covers. (squiggles)
4. 06:10 AM - 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Jay Herron)
5. 06:58 AM - Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Dave Ruddiman)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Paul Tipton)
7. 08:08 AM - Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Jay Herron)
8. 08:22 AM - Re: Inspection covers. ()
9. 08:28 AM - Re: Inspection covers. ()
10. 08:39 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane ()
11. 08:42 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane ()
12. 09:03 AM - Re: Inspection covers. (doug kandle)
13. 09:14 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Noel Loveys)
14. 09:34 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Noel Loveys)
15. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (MacDonald Doug)
16. 09:42 AM - cowl or mount (Bill Flick)
17. 09:45 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane (Noel Loveys)
18. 09:45 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane (Noel Loveys)
19. 10:12 AM - Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (Jari Kaija)
20. 11:06 AM - Re: cowl or mount (LarryMcFarland)
21. 11:30 AM - Re: Inspection covers. (Dave Ruddiman)
22. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Jim Hoak)
23. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Juan)
24. 01:03 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (JOHN STARN)
25. 01:08 PM - Re: First Flight (Juan)
26. 01:14 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? (Juan)
27. 01:59 PM - Front canopy hoop attachment (Eddie Seve)
28. 02:28 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? (Robin Bellach)
29. 02:28 PM - Re: Front canopy hoop attachment (Ron Lendon)
30. 02:43 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (Gary Boothe)
31. 03:02 PM - Re: First Flight (Zodie Rocket)
32. 03:13 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (Dave Ruddiman)
33. 04:25 PM - Re: Front canopy hoop attachment (N5SL)
34. 04:59 PM - Re: First Flight (Gary Gower)
35. 05:46 PM - A special Zodiac XL 601 (Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito)
36. 06:14 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Craig Payne)
37. 06:42 PM - Sheet plastic shop door (Bill Naumuk)
38. 06:51 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (ron wehba)
39. 07:15 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Rmtnview@aol.com)
40. 07:29 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Gary Boothe)
41. 08:07 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (NYTerminat@aol.com)
42. 08:11 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Graham Kirby)
43. 08:21 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Zodie Rocket)
44. 08:26 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Southern Reflections)
45. 08:37 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Graham Kirby)
46. 08:39 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Terry Phillips)
47. 08:45 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (kevinbonds)
48. 08:56 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (ihab.awad@gmail.com)
49. 09:04 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (ihab.awad@gmail.com)
50. 09:06 PM - Re: cowl or mount (Jeff)
51. 09:36 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Sigmo@aol.com)
52. 10:24 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Terry Turnquist)
53. 10:50 PM - skis for 701 (NYTerminat@aol.com)
54. 11:21 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Off topic: my next airplane |
IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ?
KABONG 8*)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane
> -- Craig
>
> Do Not Archive
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
Jari Kaija wrote:
> CH701, 912A and self made exhaust system:
> I need dimensions for muffler. It's diameter and length.
>
Hey! Wake up people!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68680#68680
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 801 fuel sender inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "squiggles" <squiggles@yahoo.com>
When owning previous airplanes I have had the need to both inspect the tank connections
and get at the fuel senders. Thus, when I did my 801's wings I swapped
the inboard and outboard skins. The outboard( now inboard ) skins are attached
with screws and nutplates.
The idea you describe sounds okay, though watch the clearance with the nutplates.
Even if they do not contact the tanks, you might want to make sure there is
cork to ensure they do not vibrate on the tank.
Thoughts to consider....
Happy Building
-Scott[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68688#68688
Message 4
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| Subject: | 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
I know the strut fairings make the plane look nicer, but has anyone done perfomance
tests with and without them on the 801?
Thanks,
Jay Herron
Salem, Ohio
801 96.5% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68698#68698
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Jay,
I bought the fairings for my plane just for looks. Haven't got to that part
yet though.I can't imagine they would have a measurable difference on
performance. Since I will probably fly alone about 95% of the time and
having 180HP, and being way under gross, I'm sure it would be hard to
measure. Plus, you would have to fly without them and then go to the trouble
to install them and check again. But, the bottom line is, if it looks good
and you like it, do it. 96.5% complete? What have you got left and do you
have any suggestions for me with tail surfaces done and 1 wing almost done.
But, I do have my engine on order.
Dave in Salem (Oregon) Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:08 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
>
> I know the strut fairings make the plane look nicer, but has anyone done
> perfomance tests with and without them on the 801?
>
> Thanks,
> Jay Herron
> Salem, Ohio
> 801 96.5% complete
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68698#68698
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting ELT in 701 |
Mounted mine just behing the right seat to the far right in the baggage
compartment. Easy to get to for checking, battery change, etc.
321PT
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
Dave,
I still have some wiring to do, then move it out of the garage and put the wings
on. Everything is built, just need to hook up a few things. I could get it
done in less than 30 days if I would concentrate on it :) In reality, I've only
worked on it one day in the last two months. Today will hopefully be day
two.
I have the strut fairings already, but it would cut several days off of my schedule
if I omit them. I can always add them later, unless someone says "it won't
fly right without them". I am betting that one of our fellow builders has
flown theirs without the fairings and then added them later. Hopefully they noted
the performance increase or lack of after adding.
Happy building!
Jay Herron
Salem, Ohio
801 96.6% complete :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68722#68722
Message 8
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| Subject: | Inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Radio Shack sells those little vibrating engraver tools (cheap and easy to use).
I consider it a must for my project. When I have fitted and drilled a piece,
it has to be removed, deburred, and primed (and sometimes painted) before it
is ready for rivetting later. When I take the piece off to do all that stuff,
the first step is to ID it with the little engraver. It does not lead to cracks
or fraternization with green scotchbrite (I use a security camera to monitor
the parts while I'm at work). I put the ID where it will not be seen once the
part is installed. That allows me to positively ID the parts location and its
orientation with arrows as needed. Even once the part is primed or painted the
marks can still be seen. The same goes for my inspection hatch covers.... they
all bear location and orientation marks on the inside.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / Jabiru / fuselage
---- Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
If you decide to make any kind of screw-on inspection cover, be
> sure to make the screw pattern an obvious indication of which direction the
> plate goes on. If you have multiple plates, mark them to show placement.
> Life will be better.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Message 9
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| Subject: | Inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now.
Ed
---- Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
>
>
> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals.
>
>
>
> Gary - Do not archive
>
>
>
> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off...
>
>
>
> Dave
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic: my next airplane |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
And everybody will be so shocked when that dog bites you without any apparent warning......
Hell, I could see that "Step a little closer" look in those eyes
even through the goggles!
Ed
---- Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
> -- Craig
>
> Do Not Archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic: my next airplane |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Nope..... obviously a Sky(e) Terrier,
Ed
---- JOHN STARN <jhstarn@verizon.net> wrote:
> IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ?
> KABONG 8*)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:35 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane
>
>
> > -- Craig
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
pacificpainting(at)comcas wrote:
> what
> about the holes in the skin for the fuel tank caps? Would I be correct in
> assuming that there might be less stress because they are somewhat smaller
> and are fairly close to both the spar and a rib? Just curious.
>
> ---
The fuel tank cap holes were designed in, not a builder add on. I assume that
the designer knows what he was doing. But I don't have any easy way to determine
how much stress must be supported in any particular location on the skin and
therefore I assume the worst (that it must be full strength). I have heard
rules of thumb - like the farther out on the wing you go, the less stress the
skin must withstand. The FAA takes design changes very seriously and I think
we all should too.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68737#68737
Message 13
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| Subject: | Mounting ELT in 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger
compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or less
level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front will
be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft.
If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces
you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in the
instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before landing
in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> doug kandle
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle"
> <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
>
> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where
> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The
> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting
> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable."
> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to
> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material
> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that?
> The installation specification states that the center line of
> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of
> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than
> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a
> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the
> ELT to the bottom of the tail.
> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183
> paragraph 3.1.8 required?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Mounting ELT in 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
It's not really recommended to install inspection ports in the top of the
wings. Some times you will see several inspection ports fairly close
together on the bottom of the wings. If a screw on the top of the wing
comes loose then an inspection port can be ripped from the wing (not good)
Inspection ports on the top of any horizontal surface can leak water into
the unit, be it a wing, fuselage or horizontal stabilizer (also not good).
IMHO inspection ports in the sides/bottom of a plane are a good idea if they
don't require the cutting of a structural member and if they do cut a
structural member are properly framed out.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:52 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" <lrm@skyhawg.com>
>
> If you will check my site you will find I put an access door
> in the bottom
> near the rear. Then I used two pieces of 3"X1/8" aluminum
> flat stock to
> make a platform from side to side just inside of the door.
> They are riveted
> to the lonerons. There I mounted my ELT. I also ended up
> having to mount
> a battery in the back for CG purposes. I couldn't have
> installed either one
> without the door. Zenith cuts a lot of corners in the name
> of lightness.
> What they don't seem to care about is having to inspect or do
> maintenance at
> some time in the future. It's sorta like building a boat in
> the basement.
> I also believe in inspection plates. My wings came with 12
> per wing and I
> added four more on top. And, they have doublers. There is
> almost nothing
> on my plane I can't get to. All in all maybe I added 2
> pounds but it's
> worth it not to have to pull skin off or cut holes at some
> later date, and
> it will happen.
>
> Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "doug kandle" <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:57 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle"
> <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
> >
> > I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag.
> Where do I mount
> > it? The instructions with the ELT say "The mounting
> surface must be
> > extremely rigid; therefore, mounting the ELT directly to
> the aircraft skin
> > is unacceptable."
> > There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to
> mount the ELT
> > except the skin. Have others added material attached to
> the longerons and
> > then mounted the ELT to that?
> > The installation specification states that the center line
> of the ELT must
> > be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of flight.
> Well, the bottom
> > of the tail is slanted up more than 10 degrees so this
> means that to meet
> > this specification a bracket would need to be made even of
> I were to
> > attach the ELT to the bottom of the tail.
> > Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183
> paragraph 3.1.8
> > required?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
Jari, I have my muffler sitting loose at home. I'll
check the measurements you asked for when I get off
work this afternoon.
do not archive
Doug MacDonald
NW Ontario, Canada
CH-701 Scratch builder
Working on cabin sides
__________________________________________________
Message 16
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|
anyone have a cowl or mount for subaru to 601 hds or have plans or
measurements for the mount which i can make up? (i have made other
mounts) how far off firewall to face of crank pulley or to the face
side of the prop flange? any help will be greatly appreciated. thanks
ralph
Message 17
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| Subject: | Off topic: my next airplane |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
LOL!!!
Noel
Do Not Archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> JOHN STARN
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:39 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane
>
>
> IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ?
> KABONG 8*)
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Off topic: my next airplane |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Red Baron eat your heart out!
Noel
Do Not Archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
Got it! Thank's to sender.
btw, I should use "RTFM" method more often:
It was too near to make wrong kind of muffler [Embarassed]
CH701 uses muffler, where incoming tubes goes to
both sides.
Only real-life installation what I saw ever in another kind of
plane uses method, where incoming tubes goes to top
and I didn't check it from zenair's photo assembly guides
either [Rolling Eyes] Shame on me!
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68751#68751
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: cowl or mount |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Bill,
If you were using a Stratus Subaru, the adapted mounts provided by
Stratus would fit the 912 rotax mount. You could consider buying the
adapters
from Stratus and buy that 912 mount from Zenith. I do have a
drawing/sketch of the mount needed for the Stratus as I made my own
and Zenith didn't have a ready to go drawing, so they sent me a sketch
with dimensions. When I got done, it fit.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/engmtplan.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/engoffsetplan.gif
I can send you a scanned image of the engine mount sketch/drawing if
this type is suitable.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bill Flick wrote:
> anyone have a cowl or mount for subaru to 601 hds or have plans or
> measurements for the mount which i can make up? (i have made other
> mounts) how far off firewall to face of crank pulley or to the face
> side of the prop flange? any help will be greatly appreciated.
> thanks ralph
>
>*
>*
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or
tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular household
variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after market
products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really confused
now.
----- Original Message -----
From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:27 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now.
>
> Ed
>
> ---- Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>> Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary - Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off...
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mounting ELT in 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
I believe ELTs are now required to have a remote switch and indicator light
in a place the pilot can see and reach. I may be wrong about this but I seem
to remember this from some info about ten years ago. Look into it!
Jim Hoak
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger
> compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or
> less
> level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front
> will
> be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft.
>
> If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces
> you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in
> the
> instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before
> landing
> in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted.
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> doug kandle
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle"
>> <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
>>
>> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where
>> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The
>> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting
>> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable."
>> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to
>> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material
>> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that?
>> The installation specification states that the center line of
>> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of
>> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than
>> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a
>> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the
>> ELT to the bottom of the tail.
>> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183
>> paragraph 3.1.8 required?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mounting ELT in 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
I have seen them on other zodiacs on the floor or as on the demo model, in the
luggage compartment.
I am installing mine and am putting it on the right of the flap motr along the
center line.
Juan Vega,Jr.
601 xl builder, Tampa Florida
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Hoak <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Oct 18, 2006 3:16 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>
>I believe ELTs are now required to have a remote switch and indicator light
>in a place the pilot can see and reach. I may be wrong about this but I seem
>to remember this from some info about ten years ago. Look into it!
>
>Jim Hoak
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 PM
>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>
>> A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger
>> compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or
>> less
>> level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front
>> will
>> be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft.
>>
>> If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces
>> you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in
>> the
>> instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before
>> landing
>> in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted.
>>
>> Noel
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> doug kandle
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM
>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701
>>>
>>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle"
>>> <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
>>>
>>> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where
>>> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The
>>> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting
>>> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable."
>>> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to
>>> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material
>>> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that?
>>> The installation specification states that the center line of
>>> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of
>>> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than
>>> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a
>>> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the
>>> ELT to the bottom of the tail.
>>> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183
>>> paragraph 3.1.8 required?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
"I'm really confused now."
You didn't to tell us that Dave, we already knew. KABONG 8*) Do Not
Archive
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or
> tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular
> household variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after
> market products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really
> confused now.
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab higher
and that should make the plane go up to offset the down deflection. Wings being
off would probably cause a yaw to left or right not up or down.
I could be wrong, I usualy am.
Juan Vega
601xl, Tampa FLA
-----Original Message-----
>From: george may <gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday
>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky was
>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding. Take
>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm using
>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best guess
>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max
>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep
>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled the
>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green engine
>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back pressure on
>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph
> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for control
>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern altitute for
>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the stick.
>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also
>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought at
>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I extended
>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final lineup.
>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very
>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and
>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet
>
> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are
>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is probably
>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be
>checking that out on Monday.
>
>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help
>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight.
>
>George May
>Zodiac 601XL 912s
>N221GM
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Try the new Live Search today!
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
If you can hand spin it with ease, and there is no twist motion, its tight enough,
no science, more of a feel thang.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com>
>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 9:58 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ?
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
>
>I don't understand how to properly fit/shim the front axle to achieve proper
>spacing and tension on the wheel bearings. My wheel fork is 152mm wide
>outside, 142mm inside. The wheel width overall at the bearings is about 75mm
>and adding 62mm for the spacers = 137mm. That leaves about 5mm of slack. The
>kit includes 2 AN960-1216 washers that I thought would go on the outside
>under the castle nuts. Should these actually be on the inside of the fork to
>take up that 5mm of slack, or should they be on the outside with and
>additional pair on the inside? (I notice that 2 AN960-1216's total about 5mm
>thick so seems would be about right.) How does one properly shim the
>bearings and tighten the axle nuts to get the right tension on the wheel
>bearings?
>
> Robin, confused in AR
> N601ZV Zen-Vair
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Front canopy hoop attachment |
Hi Listers,
I am hoping that one of you that has completed or is working on their
canopy installation might be able to help me.
I installed the front canopy hoop onto the canopy frame in my 601XL last
night and discovered that I don't have the front hoop attachment
brackets specified in the photo guides, these are identified as 6-C-3 /
9, but my drawings do not show that part at all. The only reference I
have to this part is a blown up drawing on 6-C-4 showing that the hoop
is attached using a bracket with 6 A5 rivets.
Can someone tell me if this part if made from aluminium or steel and
what its thickness is?
I have made a temporary bracket from some scrap aluminium that came with
the kit, thickness is about 40thou.
Best Regards,
Eddie Seve
http://www.mykitlog.com/eddieseve
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Thanks. I think I've got it now.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>
> If you can hand spin it with ease, and there is no twist motion, its
> tight enough, no science, more of a feel thang.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com>
>>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 9:58 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ?
>>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
>>
>>I don't understand how to properly fit/shim the front axle to achieve
>>proper
>>spacing and tension on the wheel bearings. My wheel fork is 152mm wide
>>outside, 142mm inside. The wheel width overall at the bearings is about
>>75mm
>>and adding 62mm for the spacers = 137mm. That leaves about 5mm of slack.
>>The
>>kit includes 2 AN960-1216 washers that I thought would go on the outside
>>under the castle nuts. Should these actually be on the inside of the fork
>>to
>>take up that 5mm of slack, or should they be on the outside with and
>>additional pair on the inside? (I notice that 2 AN960-1216's total about
>>5mm
>>thick so seems would be about right.) How does one properly shim the
>>bearings and tighten the axle nuts to get the right tension on the wheel
>>bearings?
>>
>> Robin, confused in AR
>> N601ZV Zen-Vair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Front canopy hoop attachment |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
The part you refer to is .063 6061 T6, 19mm wide and 120mm long. They show a 40
degree bend 60mm from the square end. Trim O/B side.
Drawing date 7/05
Hope that helps,
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68795#68795
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Dave,
You raise relevant points. I think the shear rating is most important on
under-wing applications, while the tension rating would apply to
top-of-wing. It would not matter if it was "industrial" or "household" as
long as it was at the certified rating. Certainly, anything other than
"Velcro" would require an STC. As to color, my guess is that any color
except green would be certified (wouldn't want anyone to mistake the green
Velcro for scotchbrite).
What really concerns me, though, is the adhesive with which the Velcro is
applied. It'll take someone smarter than I to determine the required testing
for that (after all, I'm just a guy who travels too much for work with way
too much time on my hands in a motel!)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
<pacificpainting@comcast.net>
What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or
tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular household
variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after market
products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really confused
now.
----- Original Message -----
From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:27 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now.
>
> Ed
>
> ---- Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>> Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary - Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off...
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
George go for another flight and set yourself up for a level and stable
flight. Now measuere a specific spot on your stick to a specific spot on
your panel. Land and set the stick to the measured distance you did in
the air and check out the elevator. This should indicate the way you
need to move the stabilizer and sometimes you can guess how much you
need to move it also . Repeat this with process until you have a
straight and level flight in typical configuration with an even
elevator. Also before you do ANYTHING get your local advisor to ensure
your in appropriate CG don't guess re-measure and be sure.
cdngoose
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab
higher and that should make the plane go up to offset the down
deflection. Wings being off would probably cause a yaw to left or right
not up or down.
I could be wrong, I usualy am.
Juan Vega
601xl, Tampa FLA
-----Original Message-----
>From: george may <gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday
>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky
was
>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding.
Take
>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm
using
>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best
guess
>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max
>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep
>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled
the
>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green
engine
>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back
pressure on
>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph
> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for
control
>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern
altitute for
>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the
stick.
>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also
>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought
at
>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I
extended
>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final
lineup.
>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very
>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and
>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet
>
> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are
>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is
probably
>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be
>checking that out on Monday.
>
>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help
>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight.
>
>George May
>Zodiac 601XL 912s
>N221GM
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Try the new Live Search today!
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FOR
M=WLMTAG
>
>
--
10/18/2006
--
10/18/2006
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Inspection covers. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
I didn't know that I was that obvious.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> "I'm really confused now."
>
> You didn't to tell us that Dave, we already knew. KABONG 8*) Do Not
> Archive
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers.
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
>> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>>
>> What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or
>> tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular
>> household variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after
>> market products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm
>> really confused now.
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Front canopy hoop attachment |
Eddie:=0A=0AYou can weld a tab on your canopy frame like I did:=0Ahttp://ww
w.cooknwithgas.com/7_22_06_Canopy2.JPG=0AI saw this at Oshkosh on the Facto
ry quick-build kit on display.=0A=0AOr you can make the part as shown in th
is picture of the drawing:=0Ahttp://www.cooknwithgas.com/6-C-3-9.gif=0A=0AE
ither way will work fine. =0A=0AHere's another idea I got from the factory
kit on display at Oshkosh. Slide a large heat shrink sleeve around the hoo
ps and heat them up before final installation. It looks great and makes a
tough surface on the hoops. You can see it on the first picture above. Le
t me know if you have more questions as the canopy build is all fresh in my
mind. =0A=0AHave fun,=0A=0AScott Laughlin=0AFinishing up upholstery / Tes
ting Engine=0Awww.cooknwithgas.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: Eddie Seve <eddie.seve@clarity.com>=0A=0A =0A =0A=0AI am hoping t
hat one of you that has completed or is=0Aworking on their canopy installat
ion might be able to help me. I don=A2t have the front=0Ahoop attachment br
ackets specified in the photo guides, these are identified as=0A6-C-3 / 9,
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 34
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Hello George,
Probably this advise is not necesary, but worth mentioning: Try the flight(s)
early in the morning, so the air is calm, will work better, sometimes late
in the afternoon, but beware of the hour, sometimes we get carried away with
a beautyfull sunset and gets dark... Not the best scenario for landing a new
airplane...
Good luck and congratulations...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying form Chapala, Mexico.
Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie
Rocket"
George go for another flight and set yourself up for a level and stable
flight. Now measuere a specific spot on your stick to a specific spot on
your panel. Land and set the stick to the measured distance you did in
the air and check out the elevator. This should indicate the way you
need to move the stabilizer and sometimes you can guess how much you
need to move it also . Repeat this with process until you have a
straight and level flight in typical configuration with an even
elevator. Also before you do ANYTHING get your local advisor to ensure
your in appropriate CG don't guess re-measure and be sure.
cdngoose
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan
George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab
higher and that should make the plane go up to offset the down
deflection. Wings being off would probably cause a yaw to left or right
not up or down.
I could be wrong, I usualy am.
Juan Vega
601xl, Tampa FLA
-----Original Message-----
>From: george may
>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may"
>
>
>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday
>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky
was
>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding.
Take
>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm
using
>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best
guess
>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max
>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep
>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled
the
>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green
engine
>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back
pressure on
>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph
> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for
control
>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern
altitute for
>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the
stick.
>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also
>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought
at
>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I
extended
>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final
lineup.
>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very
>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and
>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet
>
> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are
>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is
probably
>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be
>checking that out on Monday.
>
>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help
>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight.
>
>George May
>Zodiac 601XL 912s
>N221GM
>
---------------------------------
Message 35
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| Subject: | A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Hi Folks:
Thanks a lot for the compliments.
To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on,
I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words
that do not reflect the events.
Then see;
I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a
plane and you said that I'm a thief.
You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes
aren't approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer
that approved them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed
de wings, it isn't true. The wings are the same, the structural
integrity is the same. Then, where is the robbery? What did I steal?
I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more
planes. Is it robbery?
I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design
with another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic
XL 601. Is it lack of ethics?
On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded
there I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of
Drawings and Invoice".
Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate".
My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine settings.
Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk about
planes, of course, and drink some beer.
Roberto Brito.
Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* "Pinheiro
Neto" will explain next week.
*Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil
"ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you
============
I'll reply Davidson's questions;
To Jeff Davidson;
Hi Jeff,
Roberto,
A couple questions if I may:
Who is Air-Fox?
-- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves"
Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300?
-- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller
with reverse gear. It is
newness
Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas
yourself?
-- Exactly, it was myself and my employees.
Did you include roll-over protection?
-- Yes, I did.
What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"?
-- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey
Davidson. It was just a joke.
Nice looking seats!
Thanks =85.
Jeff Davidson
=============
Craig Payne;
About bad translation;
You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message.
I'm sure I don't deserve it.
=============
To Craig Payne
Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of
the
blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc.
It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins
testing. "His
would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture"
a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did
notice
his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of
pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle.
Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com
wrote:
Hi Larry;
You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I
immediatly corrected it.
About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a
much larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once
you are constantly recriminating "copy cats".
============
To Craig Payne;
A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from the
top skins
(which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. Did
you notice
he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3?
The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable:
"After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix
trip of
changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find
that it is
newness."
-- Craig
Craig;
I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), and
for me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601.
Maybe I over did my job.
============
Message 36
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| Subject: | A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Roberto,
>> You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message.
>> 'm sure I don't deserve it.
It was an automated translation done by Google. I don't speak Portuguese
How do you like your Stratomaster Enigma so far? Mine arrives Friday.
-- Craig
Message 37
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| Subject: | Sheet plastic shop door |
All-
Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials
anywhere.
6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that
are attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right
through, see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of
the heat in. The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew
where the material came from.
Any leads? Gotta have one!!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Sheet plastic shop door |
you can buy them from most resturant eq. supply shops
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door
All-
Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials
anywhere.
6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic
that are attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk
right through, see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most
of the heat in. The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew
where the material came from.
Any leads? Gotta have one!!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Sheet plastic shop door |
_http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html_
(http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html)
Try this. Or Google "plastic strip door cover" and you'll get this and about
1.5 million other hits.
All-
Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere.
6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are
attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through,
see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. The
one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material came
from.
Any leads? Gotta have one!!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Sheet plastic shop door |
I followed that link. I see why you like those.um.doors.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rmtnview@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door
http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html
Try this. Or Google "plastic strip door cover" and you'll get this and about
1.5 million other hits.
All-
Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere.
6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are
attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through,
see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in.
The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material
came from.
Any leads? Gotta have one!!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Sheet plastic shop door |
Bill,
you can get them at _www.Teksupply.com_ (http://www.Teksupply.com)
Bob Spudis
N701ZX / 85 hrs
Message 42
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| Subject: | A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Roberto,
As you gathered, many on this list were concerned that you were planning
to
manufacture and sell kits, or completed aircraft based on your
modifications. From your message it sounds like you are a regular
builder,
building one plane from one set of plans. There is nothing wrong with
that.
Your web site is excellent, your plane is beautiful and I wish you all
the
luck in the world with your test flights. Please take the advice and
commentary from this group as constructive. Over the years that I have
been
a member of this group we have experienced several members becoming
"accident statistics". We cant afford to lose people like that. There
are
far too few Zenith (and Zenith-based) airplanes in the sky.
Of course we are all building "Experimental" aircraft and at liberty to
make
whatever changes we like. Having a qualified aeronautical engineer
design/approve the modifications may well be helpful especially if he
agrees
to be the test pilot and will continue to monitor the condition of the
airframe as the plane ages.
Best Regards,
Graham Kirby
601HD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Ap.
Rodrigues de Brito
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601
Hi Folks:
Thanks a lot for the compliments.
To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on,
I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words
that
do not reflect the events.
Then see;
I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a
plane
and you said that I'm a thief.
You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes
aren't
approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer that
approved
them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed de wings, it
isn't
true. The wings are the same, the structural integrity is the same.
Then,
where is the robbery? What did I steal?
I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more
planes.
Is it robbery?
I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design
with
another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic XL
601.
Is it lack of ethics?
On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded
there
I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of
Drawings
and Invoice".
Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate".
My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine settings.
Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk about
planes, of course, and drink some beer.
Roberto Brito.
Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* "Pinheiro
Neto" will explain next week.
*Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil
"ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you
============
I'll reply Davidson's questions;
To Jeff Davidson;
Hi Jeff,
Roberto,
A couple questions if I may:
Who is Air-Fox?
-- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves"
Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300?
-- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller
with
reverse gear. It is
newness
Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas
yourself?
-- Exactly, it was myself and my employees.
Did you include roll-over protection?
-- Yes, I did.
What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"?
-- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey
Davidson. It was just a joke.
Nice looking seats!
Thanks =85.
Jeff Davidson
=============
Craig Payne;
About bad translation;
You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message.
I'm sure I don't deserve it.
=============
To Craig Payne
Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of
the
blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc.
It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins
testing.
"His
would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture"
a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did
notice
his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of
pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle.
Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com
wrote:
Hi Larry;
You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I
immediatly corrected it.
About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a
much
larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once you
are
constantly recriminating "copy cats".
============
To Craig Payne;
A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from the
top
skins
(which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. Did
you
notice
he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3?
The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable:
"After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix
trip
of
changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find
that
it is
newness."
-- Craig
Craig;
I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), and
for
me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601.
Maybe I over did my job.
Message 43
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| Subject: | A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Sorry List I have sent my reply to Roberto directly, quite evidently he
does not understand that you cannot deviate from the designers plans on
major modifications and use another designer to fill in the blanks and
still Call it a Zodiac and advertise Chris Heintz=92s name. He believes
that including the plans still makes it a 601XL even though the
modifications were extensive. But he is willing to admit that he uses
Chris Heintz Designs for the basis for his new airplane. Now lets see
how honorable he is and if he builds Zodiac 601XL=92s as designed by
Chris
or continues to sell his new design stealing from Zodiac 601XL plans.
This really is a shame, I already know the answer, Chris believes that
everyone should have the chance to build a plane that is why he provides
the plans and Zenith offers builders support to plans builders. Chris
was quite upset at the pictures I showed him earlier this week of
Roberto=92s plane, but his comment was simply =93 I make it easy for
them to
sell against me=94 It is pretty sad when you think that he has to sell
his
product against several planes he has designed, but get small
modifications. I hope this one more copy of a Zodiac doesn=92t make the
company decide to make there next designs a kit only or worst a QBK
only. But it would make financial sense to not compete against your own
design.
Do not archive
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
--
10/18/2006
--
10/18/2006
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Roberato, would you e-mail me some pict. of your plane? I"ve never seen
it.. By the way I have a set of plans with a good number that I'll be
glad to sell you at a ruduced price thanks . joe N101HD
----- Original Message -----
From: Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601
Hi Folks:
Thanks a lot for the compliments.
To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on,
I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter
words that do not reflect the events.
Then see;
I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a
plane and you said that I'm a thief.
You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes
aren't approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer
that approved them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed
de wings, it isn't true. The wings are the same, the structural
integrity is the same. Then, where is the robbery? What did I steal?
I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more
planes. Is it robbery?
I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design
with another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic
XL 601. Is it lack of ethics?
On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded
there I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of
Drawings and Invoice".
Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate".
My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine
settings.
Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk
about planes, of course, and drink some beer.
Roberto Brito.
Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master*
"Pinheiro Neto" will explain next week.
*Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil
"ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you
============
I'll reply Davidson's questions;
To Jeff Davidson;
Hi Jeff,
Roberto,
A couple questions if I may:
Who is Air-Fox?
-- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves"
Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300?
-- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller
with reverse gear. It is
newness
Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas
yourself?
-- Exactly, it was myself and my employees.
Did you include roll-over protection?
-- Yes, I did.
What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"?
-- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey
Davidson. It was just a joke.
Nice looking seats!
Thanks =85.
Jeff Davidson
=============
Craig Payne;
About bad translation;
You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message.
I'm sure I don't deserve it.
=============
To Craig Payne
Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of
the
blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc.
It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins
testing. "His
would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and
capture"
a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did
notice
his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of
pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle.
Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com
wrote:
Hi Larry;
You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I
immediatly corrected it.
About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a
much larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once
you are constantly recriminating "copy cats".
============
To Craig Payne;
A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from
the top skins
(which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason.
Did you notice
he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3?
The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable:
"After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix
trip of
changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find
that it is
newness."
-- Craig
Craig;
I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096),
and for me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601.
Maybe I over did my job.
============
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Mark,
I dont see where Roberto says that he will be selling anything. - Mind
you, my Portuguese is pretty weak :-)
Graham Kirby
601HD
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie
Rocket
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:20 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601
Sorry List I have sent my reply to Roberto directly, quite evidently he
does
not understand that you cannot deviate from the designers plans on major
modifications and use another designer to fill in the blanks and still
Call
it a Zodiac and advertise Chris Heintz's name. He believes that
including
the plans still makes it a 601XL even though the modifications were
extensive. But he is willing to admit that he uses Chris Heintz Designs
for
the basis for his new airplane. Now lets see how honorable he is and if
he
builds Zodiac 601XL's as designed by Chris or continues to sell his new
design stealing from Zodiac 601XL plans.
This really is a shame, I already know the answer, Chris believes that
everyone should have the chance to build a plane that is why he provides
the
plans and Zenith offers builders support to plans builders. Chris was
quite
upset at the pictures I showed him earlier this week of Roberto's plane,
but
his comment was simply " I make it easy for them to sell against me" It
is
pretty sad when you think that he has to sell his product against
several
planes he has designed, but get small modifications. I hope this one
more
copy of a Zodiac doesn't make the company decide to make there next
designs
a kit only or worst a QBK only. But it would make financial sense to not
compete against your own design.
Do not archive
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com <http://www.can-zacaviation.com/>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Whoa, Roberto
I used no four-letter words.
What I did say was:
>"I agree that anyone building an experimental may make changes, at his or
>her own risk. But to make a commercial copy of a Chris Heintz design is
>dishonest and unethical. I hope that the Brazilians will not go forward
>with their copycat design. If they want to sell a kit, they should design
>one and sell it."
My impression from your web site was that you intend to market your
modified 601 in Brazil. If that impression is incorrect, then, as I stated,
I have no problem with you making any changes whatever to the design and
flying the result at your own risk.
However, if your intention is to sell plans, kits, or fully built planes of
your modified design, then I again stand by my original statement, that I
believe it is dishonest and unethical. And I hope you will change your
mind. I do not speak Portuguese-if I have misinterpreted your intentions, I
do apologize.
I doubt I'll be able to make Oshkosh in '07, but maybe '08. If so, I would
love to view your plane and discuss your design over a couple of beers.
Terry
At 09:44 PM 10/18/2006 -0200, you wrote:
>To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on,
>
>I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words
>that do not reflect the events.
>
Terry Phillips
ttp44@rkymtn.net
Message 47
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| Subject: | A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Roberto
I commend you on your beautiful plane. I think it is nicest Zodiac
modification I've ever seen. I understand that you have a serial number and
you are free to do anything to your plane you want, but I believe that your
modifications are extensive enough that your plane will need extensive
testing to ensure it is safe to offer to the general public. In general the
people on this list are experimenters, not entrepreneurs. Once you cross
that line you have a different set of responsibilities. If you have deviated
from Chris Heintz' drawings with out his personal approval (regardless of
whom you have retained in his place), and are calling it a 601XL, you are
implying that it is his design. It may not have been your intention but, it
appears that you are trying to use Chris Heintz' reputation, and the
reputation of his design, in order to sell your product. The concern is that
any potential buyer would mistake your highly modified, and therefore
untested/unproven design, with the reputation of the Chris Heintz approved
version. In my opinion, it is irresponsible to suggest this in any
way--explicitly or otherwise. I hope it is your intention to clear this
up-and not to mislead your customers. I'm just some guy on the internet, and
you may not care what I think, but you may want to consider whether others
feel the same way.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Ap.
Rodrigues de Brito
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601
Hi Folks:
Thanks a lot for the compliments.
To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on,
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
On 10/18/06, Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net> wrote:
> However, if your intention is to sell plans, kits, or fully built planes of
> your modified design, then ...
Roberto requires that anyone building his modified design purchase a
set of plans from CH and show proof of purchase. So, what if Roberto
were to --
a. Provides paid builder support for constructing the aircraft; and/or --
b. Market prefabricated parts (up to or including a complete "kit")
for the modified design. Would that be a breech of copyright or
contract? Would it be different if he were doing the same for the
unmodified design?
My suspicion is that, unless he publishes a derivative work of the **
plans **, he is clear of copyright violation. However, there may be
contractual issues that may attach to ownership of the plans that
prevent construction of a derivative design, or reverse engineering an
article constructed from the design, or whatever. Also, building a
business based on construction of modified plans may be considered _de
facto_ publication of a modified version of the plans. Does anyone
have the contract they signed with Zenith handy? What does it say or
not say? Any lawyers on this group know how these things go?
Just some thoughts. Again, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal
advice. Regards,
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
I should add to my previous comments --
What I really would like to know is what CH's legal and business
structure for copies or modifications of his designs really is. His
indignation -- however heartfelt -- does not count. He is a successful
aircraft designer and the general "form" of his designs are classic
"patterns" (especially the CH701/801 series) that are hard to avoid
once you've seen them. Sort of like the similarities between the Piper
Cub and any of a number of other aircraft -- I'm not sure which came
first, but there are bezillions of Cub-like thingeys buzzing around.
Ihab
Message 50
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
"Bill,
If you were using a Stratus Subaru, the adapted mounts provided by
Stratus would fit the 912 rotax mount. You could consider buying the
Adapters from Stratus and buy that 912 mount from Zenith."
Or Bill you could get in touch with me if you are interested in a used 912
mount I bought for myself. I went with a Jabiru. Jeff Davidson
Jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Yes but they don't call their "Cub like thingies" a piper cub using Pipers
name to sell the thingies. If it's a thingie it needs to be called a
thingie.......
My 2 cents worth.
Mike Sigman
N7092N 601XL
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 |
Harmon Rocket
do not archive
ihab.awad@gmail.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
I should add to my previous comments --
What I really would like to know is what CH's legal and business
structure for copies or modifications of his designs really is. His
indignation -- however heartfelt -- does not count. He is a successful
aircraft designer and the general "form" of his designs are classic
"patterns" (especially the CH701/801 series) that are hard to avoid
once you've seen them. Sort of like the similarities between the Piper
Cub and any of a number of other aircraft -- I'm not sure which came
first, but there are bezillions of Cub-like thingeys buzzing around.
Ihab
---------------------------------
Message 53
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list,
With winter coming up, does anybody have any plans to build skis for the
701? Does anyone know where I can purchase plans for the skis? I like the ones
that utilize the tires and skis together.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/ 85hrs
Message 54
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| Subject: | Sheet plastic shop door |
These are common in the food and restaurant industry. You see them on
walk-in refrigerators and warehouse doors.
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door
All-
Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere.
6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are
attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through,
see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in.
The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material
came from.
Any leads? Gotta have one!!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
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