---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/19/06: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:13 AM - Re: skis for 701 (Jari Kaija) 2. 04:59 AM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Zodie Rocket) 3. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Tom Faulkner) 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Robin Bellach) 5. 08:17 AM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 6. 11:06 AM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito) 7. 04:20 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito) 8. 06:16 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 10/18/06 (Juan) 9. 06:16 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 10/18/06 (Juan) 10. 06:59 PM - Shop door (Bill Naumuk) 11. 07:24 PM - Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs (Larry Winger) 12. 08:10 PM - Re: Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs (Ron Lendon) 13. 08:15 PM - Re: Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs (Terry Turnquist) 14. 08:47 PM - 801 stick angle (John Swartout) 15. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs (Larry Winger) 16. 09:02 PM - Looking for 7/32" Repair Rivets (Ron Lendon) 17. 09:14 PM - "Electroless Nickel" plating on all of my 4130 and SS parts. (tjlhl) 18. 10:15 PM - Re: Looking for 7/32" Repair Rivets (TxDave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:00 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: skis for 701 > I like the ones that utilize the tires and skis together. Skis with nose gear setup is most frequent reason to destroy firewall, nose gear attachements, whole plane. You've been warned. ---------------------------------- http://www.jarikaija.com http://www.project-ch701.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:22 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 Most of you know me well enough to know that I am the first person to stand up and applaud a builders ingenuity( hell 601.org is full of them). A person who changes the plans to suit there own personal needs and desires is great and welcome. Even Chris himself is willing to review modifications to his plane and has quite often approved major modifications at no extra cost to the builder. I don=92t know of any other designer who would allow changes to their designs never mind the fact that they would help a builder with design changes. But that is Chris and that is for builders that are building a plane for personal use. This is not the case with Roberto , it is his desire to become a Zenith dealer in Brazil and instead of going the proper route he is buying plans and building his plane for retail purposes. I have known of Roberto ever since he was sold his plans at Oshkosh and he has sent up pictures of his progress over the year of his plane and we even offered him advise as a builder. But I did not know up until recently that he is planning on selling his design and is using Chris Heintz=92 s name to promote the plane as well as calling it a 601XL. IT is his intent to go into production of his design after the flight tests are done. That is why he has asked Zenith for many sets of plans of which his plane is based on. I like Roberto and he is a nice guy but I am upset at his use of Chris Heintz Designs and name to sell his plane. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Kirby Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:37 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 Mark, I dont see where Roberto says that he will be selling anything. - Mind you, my Portuguese is pretty weak :-) Graham Kirby 601HD do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie Rocket Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:20 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 Sorry List I have sent my reply to Roberto directly, quite evidently he does not understand that you cannot deviate from the designers plans on major modifications and use another designer to fill in the blanks and still Call it a Zodiac and advertise Chris Heintz=92s name. He believes that including the plans still makes it a 601XL even though the modifications were extensive. But he is willing to admit that he uses Chris Heintz Designs for the basis for his new airplane. Now lets see how honorable he is and if he builds Zodiac 601XL=92s as designed by Chris or continues to sell his new design stealing from Zodiac 601XL plans. This really is a shame, I already know the answer, Chris believes that everyone should have the chance to build a plane that is why he provides the plans and Zenith offers builders support to plans builders. Chris was quite upset at the pictures I showed him earlier this week of Roberto=92s plane, but his comment was simply =93 I make it easy for them to sell against me=94 It is pretty sad when you think that he has to sell his product against several planes he has designed, but get small modifications. I hope this one more copy of a Zodiac doesn=92t make the company decide to make there next designs a kit only or worst a QBK only. But it would make financial sense to not compete against your own design. Do not archive Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion -- 10/18/2006 -- 10/18/2006 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:44 AM PST US From: "Tom Faulkner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom Faulkner" Jay: I flew my 801 for several flights before adding the fairings. But I was too busy test flying and solving other problems to get accurate performance figures. It flys fine without them and performance improvement is not readily noticeable - 2 to 3 mph I would guess. One other note. There is no pattern for the fairing between the wing and strut fairing and it is a real bear to get right. I think I still have my final pattern if you need one. Tom Faulkner ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:31 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door You might make your own using PVC sheeting - see eBay #170037932869. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rmtnview@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html Try this. Or Google "plastic strip door cover" and you'll get this and about 1.5 million other hits. All- Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere. 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through, see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material came from. Any leads? Gotta have one!! do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:59 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door They are used for walk in coolers and freezers... you can get them at any restaurant supply. do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:58 AM PST US From: "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 I sent to e-mail, I hope you like. Regards. Roberto Brito. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:37 PM PST US From: "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 Hi Craig, As you know, my plane will fly on October 31, I expect, but on land my Stratomaster Enigma is fantastic!!!!! It has a lot of function, it's great. Regards, Roberto Brito. Zodiac XL Jab 3000/ Woocomp SR 3000 Plans. Brazil. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:36 PM PST US From: Juan Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 10/18/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan all, I have been putting on the horizontal Stab and when I finally pu th glass tips, which were nice and strait, I looked and saw one trailing edge tip, the port side, to be lower by 15 -20 mm. or 5 degrees. we spen two days removing rivets and forming a new rib to get ithe elevator to zero twist. we finally got it to less than 1/4 inch. No mater at this point how were try to cajol it straight that is the best we can do, 1/4 twist. And this is a QWK Build Kit, machine drilled, etc.. to Boot! Is this within tollerances? and has anyone had that problem. And yes this is the most fun I have had in a while! Juan First time builder, 601 xl Tampa -----Original Message----- >From: Zenith-List Digest Server >Sent: Oct 19, 2006 2:58 AM >To: Zenith-List Digest List >Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 10/18/06 > >* > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > >Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the >two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >such as Notepad or with a web browser. > >HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-10-18.html > >Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-10-18.txt > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 10/18/06: 54 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >Today's Message Index: >---------------------- > > 1. 12:10 AM - Off topic: my next airplane (JOHN STARN) > 2. 01:58 AM - Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (Jari Kaija) > 3. 04:51 AM - Re: 801 fuel sender inspection covers. (squiggles) > 4. 06:10 AM - 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Jay Herron) > 5. 06:58 AM - Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Dave Ruddiman) > 6. 07:49 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Paul Tipton) > 7. 08:08 AM - Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Jay Herron) > 8. 08:22 AM - Re: Inspection covers. () > 9. 08:28 AM - Re: Inspection covers. () > 10. 08:39 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane () > 11. 08:42 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane () > 12. 09:03 AM - Re: Inspection covers. (doug kandle) > 13. 09:14 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Noel Loveys) > 14. 09:34 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Noel Loveys) > 15. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (MacDonald Doug) > 16. 09:42 AM - cowl or mount (Bill Flick) > 17. 09:45 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane (Noel Loveys) > 18. 09:45 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane (Noel Loveys) > 19. 10:12 AM - Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (Jari Kaija) > 20. 11:06 AM - Re: cowl or mount (LarryMcFarland) > 21. 11:30 AM - Re: Inspection covers. (Dave Ruddiman) > 22. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Jim Hoak) > 23. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Juan) > 24. 01:03 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (JOHN STARN) > 25. 01:08 PM - Re: First Flight (Juan) > 26. 01:14 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? (Juan) > 27. 01:59 PM - Front canopy hoop attachment (Eddie Seve) > 28. 02:28 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? (Robin Bellach) > 29. 02:28 PM - Re: Front canopy hoop attachment (Ron Lendon) > 30. 02:43 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (Gary Boothe) > 31. 03:02 PM - Re: First Flight (Zodie Rocket) > 32. 03:13 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (Dave Ruddiman) > 33. 04:25 PM - Re: Front canopy hoop attachment (N5SL) > 34. 04:59 PM - Re: First Flight (Gary Gower) > 35. 05:46 PM - A special Zodiac XL 601 (Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito) > 36. 06:14 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Craig Payne) > 37. 06:42 PM - Sheet plastic shop door (Bill Naumuk) > 38. 06:51 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (ron wehba) > 39. 07:15 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Rmtnview@aol.com) > 40. 07:29 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Gary Boothe) > 41. 08:07 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (NYTerminat@aol.com) > 42. 08:11 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Graham Kirby) > 43. 08:21 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Zodie Rocket) > 44. 08:26 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Southern Reflections) > 45. 08:37 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Graham Kirby) > 46. 08:39 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Terry Phillips) > 47. 08:45 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (kevinbonds) > 48. 08:56 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (ihab.awad@gmail.com) > 49. 09:04 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (ihab.awad@gmail.com) > 50. 09:06 PM - Re: cowl or mount (Jeff) > 51. 09:36 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Sigmo@aol.com) > 52. 10:24 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Terry Turnquist) > 53. 10:50 PM - skis for 701 (NYTerminat@aol.com) > 54. 11:21 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Craig Payne) > > > >________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:10:24 AM PST US >From: "JOHN STARN" >Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ? >KABONG 8*) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Craig Payne" >Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:35 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > > >> -- Craig >> >> Do Not Archive >> > >________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:58:42 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A >From: "Jari Kaija" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > > >Jari Kaija wrote: >> CH701, 912A and self made exhaust system: >> I need dimensions for muffler. It's diameter and length. >> > > >Hey! Wake up people! > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68680#68680 > > >________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 04:51:11 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 fuel sender inspection covers. >From: "squiggles" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "squiggles" > >When owning previous airplanes I have had the need to both inspect the tank connections >and get at the fuel senders. Thus, when I did my 801's wings I swapped >the inboard and outboard skins. The outboard( now inboard ) skins are attached >with screws and nutplates. > >The idea you describe sounds okay, though watch the clearance with the nutplates. >Even if they do not contact the tanks, you might want to make sure there is >cork to ensure they do not vibrate on the tank. > >Thoughts to consider.... > >Happy Building >-Scott[/quote] > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68688#68688 > > >________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:10:17 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? >From: "Jay Herron" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" > >I know the strut fairings make the plane look nicer, but has anyone done perfomance >tests with and without them on the 801? > >Thanks, >Jay Herron >Salem, Ohio >801 96.5% complete > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68698#68698 > > >________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:58:40 AM PST US >From: "Dave Ruddiman" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > >Jay, > >I bought the fairings for my plane just for looks. Haven't got to that part >yet though.I can't imagine they would have a measurable difference on >performance. Since I will probably fly alone about 95% of the time and >having 180HP, and being way under gross, I'm sure it would be hard to >measure. Plus, you would have to fly without them and then go to the trouble >to install them and check again. But, the bottom line is, if it looks good >and you like it, do it. 96.5% complete? What have you got left and do you >have any suggestions for me with tail surfaces done and 1 wing almost done. >But, I do have my engine on order. > > >Dave in Salem (Oregon) Do not archive. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jay Herron" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:08 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" >> >> I know the strut fairings make the plane look nicer, but has anyone done >> perfomance tests with and without them on the 801? >> >> Thanks, >> Jay Herron >> Salem, Ohio >> 801 96.5% complete >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68698#68698 >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:49:01 AM PST US >From: "Paul Tipton" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >Mounted mine just behing the right seat to the far right in the baggage >compartment. Easy to get to for checking, battery change, etc. >321PT > >________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:08:16 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? >From: "Jay Herron" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" > >Dave, >I still have some wiring to do, then move it out of the garage and put the wings >on. Everything is built, just need to hook up a few things. I could get it >done in less than 30 days if I would concentrate on it :) In reality, I've only >worked on it one day in the last two months. Today will hopefully be day >two. > >I have the strut fairings already, but it would cut several days off of my schedule >if I omit them. I can always add them later, unless someone says "it won't >fly right without them". I am betting that one of our fellow builders has >flown theirs without the fairings and then added them later. Hopefully they noted >the performance increase or lack of after adding. > >Happy building! >Jay Herron >Salem, Ohio >801 96.6% complete :) > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68722#68722 > > >________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:22:01 AM PST US >From: >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Radio Shack sells those little vibrating engraver tools (cheap and easy to use). >I consider it a must for my project. When I have fitted and drilled a piece, >it has to be removed, deburred, and primed (and sometimes painted) before it >is ready for rivetting later. When I take the piece off to do all that stuff, >the first step is to ID it with the little engraver. It does not lead to cracks >or fraternization with green scotchbrite (I use a security camera to monitor >the parts while I'm at work). I put the ID where it will not be seen once the >part is installed. That allows me to positively ID the parts location and its >orientation with arrows as needed. Even once the part is primed or painted the >marks can still be seen. The same goes for my inspection hatch covers.... they >all bear location and orientation marks on the inside. > >Ed Moody II >Rayne, LA >601XL / Jabiru / fuselage > > >---- Gary Boothe wrote: >> Dave, >> >If you decide to make any kind of screw-on inspection cover, be >> sure to make the screw pattern an obvious indication of which direction the >> plate goes on. If you have multiple plates, mark them to show placement. >> Life will be better. >> >> Gary Boothe >> Cool, CA >> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, >> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > >________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:28:20 AM PST US >From: >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now. > >Ed > >---- Gary Boothe wrote: >> Dave, >> >> >> >> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals. >> >> >> >> Gary - Do not archive >> >> >> >> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off... >> >> >> >> Dave > > >________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:39:01 AM PST US >From: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >And everybody will be so shocked when that dog bites you without any apparent warning...... >Hell, I could see that "Step a little closer" look in those eyes >even through the goggles! > >Ed > >---- Craig Payne wrote: >> -- Craig >> >> Do Not Archive > > >________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:42:36 AM PST US >From: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Nope..... obviously a Sky(e) Terrier, > >Ed > >---- JOHN STARN wrote: >> IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ? >> KABONG 8*) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Craig Payne" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:35 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane >> >> >> > -- Craig >> > >> > Do Not Archive >> > > > >________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:03:23 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection covers. >From: "doug kandle" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" > > >pacificpainting(at)comcas wrote: >> what >> about the holes in the skin for the fuel tank caps? Would I be correct in >> assuming that there might be less stress because they are somewhat smaller >> and are fairly close to both the spar and a rib? Just curious. >> >> --- > >The fuel tank cap holes were designed in, not a builder add on. I assume that >the designer knows what he was doing. But I don't have any easy way to determine >how much stress must be supported in any particular location on the skin and >therefore I assume the worst (that it must be full strength). I have heard >rules of thumb - like the farther out on the wing you go, the less stress the >skin must withstand. The FAA takes design changes very seriously and I think >we all should too. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68737#68737 > > >________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:14:32 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger >compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or less >level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front will >be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft. > >If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces >you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in the >instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before landing >in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted. > >Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> doug kandle >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >> >> >> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where >> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The >> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting >> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable." >> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material >> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that? >> The installation specification states that the center line of >> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of >> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than >> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a >> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the >> ELT to the bottom of the tail. >> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >> paragraph 3.1.8 required? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:34:17 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >It's not really recommended to install inspection ports in the top of the >wings. Some times you will see several inspection ports fairly close >together on the bottom of the wings. If a screw on the top of the wing >comes loose then an inspection port can be ripped from the wing (not good) >Inspection ports on the top of any horizontal surface can leak water into >the unit, be it a wing, fuselage or horizontal stabilizer (also not good). > >IMHO inspection ports in the sides/bottom of a plane are a good idea if they >don't require the cutting of a structural member and if they do cut a >structural member are properly framed out. >Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM >> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:52 AM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" >> >> If you will check my site you will find I put an access door >> in the bottom >> near the rear. Then I used two pieces of 3"X1/8" aluminum >> flat stock to >> make a platform from side to side just inside of the door. >> They are riveted >> to the lonerons. There I mounted my ELT. I also ended up >> having to mount >> a battery in the back for CG purposes. I couldn't have >> installed either one >> without the door. Zenith cuts a lot of corners in the name >> of lightness. >> What they don't seem to care about is having to inspect or do >> maintenance at >> some time in the future. It's sorta like building a boat in >> the basement. >> I also believe in inspection plates. My wings came with 12 >> per wing and I >> added four more on top. And, they have doublers. There is >> almost nothing >> on my plane I can't get to. All in all maybe I added 2 >> pounds but it's >> worth it not to have to pull skin off or cut holes at some >> later date, and >> it will happen. >> >> Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "doug kandle" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:57 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >> >> > >> > I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. >> Where do I mount >> > it? The instructions with the ELT say "The mounting >> surface must be >> > extremely rigid; therefore, mounting the ELT directly to >> the aircraft skin >> > is unacceptable." >> > There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >> mount the ELT >> > except the skin. Have others added material attached to >> the longerons and >> > then mounted the ELT to that? >> > The installation specification states that the center line >> of the ELT must >> > be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of flight. >> Well, the bottom >> > of the tail is slanted up more than 10 degrees so this >> means that to meet >> > this specification a bracket would need to be made even of >> I were to >> > attach the ELT to the bottom of the tail. >> > Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >> paragraph 3.1.8 >> > required? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:39:54 AM PST US >From: MacDonald Doug >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug > >Jari, I have my muffler sitting loose at home. I'll >check the measurements you asked for when I get off >work this afternoon. > >do not archive > >Doug MacDonald >NW Ontario, Canada >CH-701 Scratch builder >Working on cabin sides > > >__________________________________________________ > > >________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:42:59 AM PST US >From: "Bill Flick" >Subject: Zenith-List: cowl or mount > >anyone have a cowl or mount for subaru to 601 hds or have plans or >measurements for the mount which i can make up? (i have made other >mounts) how far off firewall to face of crank pulley or to the face >side of the prop flange? any help will be greatly appreciated. thanks >ralph > >________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:45:16 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >LOL!!! > >Noel >Do Not Archive > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> JOHN STARN >> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:39 AM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane >> >> >> IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ? >> KABONG 8*) >> > > >________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:45:16 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >Red Baron eat your heart out! > >Noel >Do Not Archive > > >________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:12:52 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A >From: "Jari Kaija" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > >Got it! Thank's to sender. > >btw, I should use "RTFM" method more often: > >It was too near to make wrong kind of muffler [Embarassed] > >CH701 uses muffler, where incoming tubes goes to >both sides. > >Only real-life installation what I saw ever in another kind of >plane uses method, where incoming tubes goes to top >and I didn't check it from zenair's photo assembly guides >either [Rolling Eyes] Shame on me! > >Do not archive > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68751#68751 > > >________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:06:45 AM PST US >From: LarryMcFarland >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cowl or mount > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > >Bill, >If you were using a Stratus Subaru, the adapted mounts provided by >Stratus would fit the 912 rotax mount. You could consider buying the >adapters >from Stratus and buy that 912 mount from Zenith. I do have a >drawing/sketch of the mount needed for the Stratus as I made my own >and Zenith didn't have a ready to go drawing, so they sent me a sketch >with dimensions. When I got done, it fit. >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/engmtplan.gif >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/engoffsetplan.gif >I can send you a scanned image of the engine mount sketch/drawing if >this type is suitable. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > >Bill Flick wrote: > >> anyone have a cowl or mount for subaru to 601 hds or have plans or >> measurements for the mount which i can make up? (i have made other >> mounts) how far off firewall to face of crank pulley or to the face >> side of the prop flange? any help will be greatly appreciated. >> thanks ralph >> >>* >>* >> > > >________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:30:08 AM PST US >From: "Dave Ruddiman" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > >What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular household >variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after market >products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really confused >now. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:27 AM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: >> >> Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now. >> >> Ed >> >> ---- Gary Boothe wrote: >>> Dave, >>> >>> >>> >>> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals. >>> >>> >>> >>> Gary - Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off... >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:17:50 PM PST US >From: "Jim Hoak" >Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" > >I believe ELTs are now required to have a remote switch and indicator light >in a place the pilot can see and reach. I may be wrong about this but I seem >to remember this from some info about ten years ago. Look into it! > >Jim Hoak > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Noel Loveys" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 PM >Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" >> >> A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger >> compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or >> less >> level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front >> will >> be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft. >> >> If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces >> you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in >> the >> instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before >> landing >> in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted. >> >> Noel >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> doug kandle >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM >>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >>> >>> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >>> >>> >>> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where >>> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The >>> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting >>> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable." >>> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >>> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material >>> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that? >>> The installation specification states that the center line of >>> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of >>> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than >>> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a >>> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the >>> ELT to the bottom of the tail. >>> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >>> paragraph 3.1.8 required? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:52:27 PM PST US >From: Juan >Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >I have seen them on other zodiacs on the floor or as on the demo model, in the >luggage compartment. >I am installing mine and am putting it on the right of the flap motr along the >center line. > >Juan Vega,Jr. >601 xl builder, Tampa Florida > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Jim Hoak >>Sent: Oct 18, 2006 3:16 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" >> >>I believe ELTs are now required to have a remote switch and indicator light >>in a place the pilot can see and reach. I may be wrong about this but I seem >>to remember this from some info about ten years ago. Look into it! >> >>Jim Hoak >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Noel Loveys" >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 PM >>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" >>> >>> A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger >>> compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or >>> less >>> level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front >>> will >>> be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft. >>> >>> If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces >>> you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in >>> the >>> instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before >>> landing >>> in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted. >>> >>> Noel >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>>> doug kandle >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM >>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >>>> >>>> >>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >>>> >>>> >>>> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where >>>> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The >>>> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting >>>> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable." >>>> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >>>> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material >>>> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that? >>>> The installation specification states that the center line of >>>> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of >>>> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than >>>> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a >>>> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the >>>> ELT to the bottom of the tail. >>>> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >>>> paragraph 3.1.8 required? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:03:24 PM PST US >From: "JOHN STARN" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" > > "I'm really confused now." > >You didn't to tell us that Dave, we already knew. KABONG 8*) Do Not >Archive >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >> >> >> What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >> tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular >> household variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after >> market products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really >> confused now. > > >________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:08:05 PM PST US >From: Juan >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab higher >and that should make the plane go up to offset the down deflection. Wings being >off would probably cause a yaw to left or right not up or down. >I could be wrong, I usualy am. > >Juan Vega >601xl, Tampa FLA > >-----Original Message----- >>From: george may >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" >> >> >>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday >>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky was >>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding. Take >>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm using >>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best guess >>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max >>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep >>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled the >>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green engine >>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back pressure on >>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph >> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for control >>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern altitute for >>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the stick. >>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also >>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought at >>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I extended >>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final lineup. >>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very >>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and >>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet >> >> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are >>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is probably >>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be >>checking that out on Monday. >> >>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help >>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight. >> >>George May >>Zodiac 601XL 912s >>N221GM >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Try the new Live Search today! >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:14:39 PM PST US >From: Juan >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >If you can hand spin it with ease, and there is no twist motion, its tight enough, >no science, more of a feel thang. > >Juan > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com> >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 9:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> >> >>I don't understand how to properly fit/shim the front axle to achieve proper >>spacing and tension on the wheel bearings. My wheel fork is 152mm wide >>outside, 142mm inside. The wheel width overall at the bearings is about 75mm >>and adding 62mm for the spacers = 137mm. That leaves about 5mm of slack. The >>kit includes 2 AN960-1216 washers that I thought would go on the outside >>under the castle nuts. Should these actually be on the inside of the fork to >>take up that 5mm of slack, or should they be on the outside with and >>additional pair on the inside? (I notice that 2 AN960-1216's total about 5mm >>thick so seems would be about right.) How does one properly shim the >>bearings and tighten the axle nuts to get the right tension on the wheel >>bearings? >> >> Robin, confused in AR >> N601ZV Zen-Vair >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:59:19 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Front canopy hoop attachment >From: "Eddie Seve" > >Hi Listers, > >I am hoping that one of you that has completed or is working on their >canopy installation might be able to help me. > >I installed the front canopy hoop onto the canopy frame in my 601XL last >night and discovered that I don't have the front hoop attachment >brackets specified in the photo guides, these are identified as 6-C-3 / >9, but my drawings do not show that part at all. The only reference I >have to this part is a blown up drawing on 6-C-4 showing that the hoop >is attached using a bracket with 6 A5 rivets. > >Can someone tell me if this part if made from aluminium or steel and >what its thickness is? > >I have made a temporary bracket from some scrap aluminium that came with >the kit, thickness is about 40thou. > >Best Regards, >Eddie Seve > >http://www.mykitlog.com/eddieseve > > >________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:28:41 PM PST US >From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> > >Thanks. I think I've got it now. > >Do not archive. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Juan" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 3:14 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan >> >> If you can hand spin it with ease, and there is no twist motion, its >> tight enough, no science, more of a feel thang. >> >> Juan >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com> >>>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 9:58 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? >>> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> >>> >>>I don't understand how to properly fit/shim the front axle to achieve >>>proper >>>spacing and tension on the wheel bearings. My wheel fork is 152mm wide >>>outside, 142mm inside. The wheel width overall at the bearings is about >>>75mm >>>and adding 62mm for the spacers = 137mm. That leaves about 5mm of slack. >>>The >>>kit includes 2 AN960-1216 washers that I thought would go on the outside >>>under the castle nuts. Should these actually be on the inside of the fork >>>to >>>take up that 5mm of slack, or should they be on the outside with and >>>additional pair on the inside? (I notice that 2 AN960-1216's total about >>>5mm >>>thick so seems would be about right.) How does one properly shim the >>>bearings and tighten the axle nuts to get the right tension on the wheel >>>bearings? >>> >>> Robin, confused in AR >>> N601ZV Zen-Vair >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:28:41 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Front canopy hoop attachment >From: "Ron Lendon" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" > >The part you refer to is .063 6061 T6, 19mm wide and 120mm long. They show a 40 >degree bend 60mm from the square end. Trim O/B side. > >Drawing date 7/05 > >Hope that helps, > >-------- >Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68795#68795 > > >________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:43:07 PM PST US >From: "Gary Boothe" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" > >Dave, > >You raise relevant points. I think the shear rating is most important on >under-wing applications, while the tension rating would apply to >top-of-wing. It would not matter if it was "industrial" or "household" as >long as it was at the certified rating. Certainly, anything other than >"Velcro" would require an STC. As to color, my guess is that any color >except green would be certified (wouldn't want anyone to mistake the green >Velcro for scotchbrite). > >What really concerns me, though, is the adhesive with which the Velcro is >applied. It'll take someone smarter than I to determine the required testing >for that (after all, I'm just a guy who travels too much for work with way >too much time on my hands in a motel!) > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, >Tail done, wings done, working on c-section >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > >What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular household >variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after market >products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really confused > >now. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:27 AM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: >> >> Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now. >> >> Ed >> >> ---- Gary Boothe wrote: >>> Dave, >>> >>> >>> >>> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals. >>> >>> >>> >>> Gary - Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off... >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:02:16 PM PST US >From: "Zodie Rocket" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > >George go for another flight and set yourself up for a level and stable >flight. Now measuere a specific spot on your stick to a specific spot on >your panel. Land and set the stick to the measured distance you did in >the air and check out the elevator. This should indicate the way you >need to move the stabilizer and sometimes you can guess how much you >need to move it also . Repeat this with process until you have a >straight and level flight in typical configuration with an even >elevator. Also before you do ANYTHING get your local advisor to ensure >your in appropriate CG don't guess re-measure and be sure. > >cdngoose >Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC >www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:07 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab >higher and that should make the plane go up to offset the down >deflection. Wings being off would probably cause a yaw to left or right >not up or down. >I could be wrong, I usualy am. > >Juan Vega >601xl, Tampa FLA > >-----Original Message----- >>From: george may >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" >> >> >>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday > >>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky >was >>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding. >Take >>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm >using >>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best >guess >>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max >>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep >>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled >the >>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green >engine >>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back >pressure on >>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph >> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for >control >>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern >altitute for >>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the >stick. >>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also > >>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought >at >>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I >extended >>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final >lineup. >>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very > >>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and >>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet >> >> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are >>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is >probably >>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be > >>checking that out on Monday. >> >>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help > >>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight. >> >>George May >>Zodiac 601XL 912s >>N221GM >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Try the new Live Search today! >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FOR >M=WLMTAG >> >> > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:13:39 PM PST US >From: "Dave Ruddiman" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > >I didn't know that I was that obvious. > >do not archive > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "JOHN STARN" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:24 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" >> >> "I'm really confused now." >> >> You didn't to tell us that Dave, we already knew. KABONG 8*) Do Not >> Archive >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >>> >>> >>> What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >>> tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular >>> household variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after >>> market products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm >>> really confused now. >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 04:25:22 PM PST US >From: N5SL >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Front canopy hoop attachment > >Eddie:=0A=0AYou can weld a tab on your canopy frame like I did:=0Ahttp://ww >w.cooknwithgas.com/7_22_06_Canopy2.JPG=0AI saw this at Oshkosh on the Facto >ry quick-build kit on display.=0A=0AOr you can make the part as shown in th >is picture of the drawing:=0Ahttp://www.cooknwithgas.com/6-C-3-9.gif=0A=0AE >ither way will work fine. =0A=0AHere's another idea I got from the factory >kit on display at Oshkosh. Slide a large heat shrink sleeve around the hoo >ps and heat them up before final installation. It looks great and makes a >tough surface on the hoops. You can see it on the first picture above. Le >t me know if you have more questions as the canopy build is all fresh in my > mind. =0A=0AHave fun,=0A=0AScott Laughlin=0AFinishing up upholstery / Tes >ting Engine=0Awww.cooknwithgas.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- >=0AFrom: Eddie Seve =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AI am hoping t >hat one of you that has completed or is=0Aworking on their canopy installat >ion might be able to help me. I don=A2t have the front=0Ahoop attachment br >ackets specified in the photo guides, these are identified as=0A6-C-3 / 9, >=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A > >________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 04:59:02 PM PST US >From: Gary Gower >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight > >Hello George, > >Probably this advise is not necesary, but worth mentioning: Try the flight(s) >early in the morning, so the air is calm, will work better, sometimes late >in the afternoon, but beware of the hour, sometimes we get carried away with >a beautyfull sunset and gets dark... Not the best scenario for landing a new >airplane... > >Good luck and congratulations... > >Saludos >Gary Gower. >Flying form Chapala, Mexico. > >Zodie Rocket wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie >Rocket" > >George go for another flight and set yourself up for a level and stable >flight. Now measuere a specific spot on your stick to a specific spot on >your panel. Land and set the stick to the measured distance you did in >the air and check out the elevator. This should indicate the way you >need to move the stabilizer and sometimes you can guess how much you >need to move it also . Repeat this with process until you have a >straight and level flight in typical configuration with an even >elevator. Also before you do ANYTHING get your local advisor to ensure >your in appropriate CG don't guess re-measure and be sure. > >cdngoose >Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC >www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:07 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab >higher and that should make the plane go up to offset the down >deflection. Wings being off would probably cause a yaw to left or right >not up or down. >I could be wrong, I usualy am. > >Juan Vega >601xl, Tampa FLA > >-----Original Message----- >>From: george may >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" >> >> >>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday > >>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky >was >>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding. >Take >>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm >using >>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best >guess >>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max >>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep >>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled >the >>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green >engine >>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back >pressure on >>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph >> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for >control >>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern >altitute for >>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the >stick. >>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also > >>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought >at >>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I >extended >>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final >lineup. >>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very > >>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and >>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet >> >> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are >>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is >probably >>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be > >>checking that out on Monday. >> >>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help > >>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight. >> >>George May >>Zodiac 601XL 912s >>N221GM >> > > > >--------------------------------- > >________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 05:46:34 PM PST US >From: "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" >Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Hi Folks: > >Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > >To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > >I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words >that do not reflect the events. > >Then see; >I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a >plane and you said that I'm a thief. >You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes >aren't approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer >that approved them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed >de wings, it isn't true. The wings are the same, the structural >integrity is the same. Then, where is the robbery? What did I steal? >I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more >planes. Is it robbery? >I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design >with another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic >XL 601. Is it lack of ethics? >On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded >there I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of >Drawings and Invoice". > >Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate". >My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine settings. >Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk about >planes, of course, and drink some beer. > > >Roberto Brito. > >Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* "Pinheiro >Neto" will explain next week. >*Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil >"ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you > >=========== > > I'll reply Davidson's questions; > > > To Jeff Davidson; > > >Hi Jeff, > > Roberto, > > A couple questions if I may: > > Who is Air-Fox? >-- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves" > > Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300? >-- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller >with reverse gear. It is > newness > > > Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas >yourself? >-- Exactly, it was myself and my employees. > > Did you include roll-over protection? >-- Yes, I did. > > What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"? >-- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey >Davidson. It was just a joke. > > Nice looking seats! > > Thanks =85. > > Jeff Davidson > >============ > > Craig Payne; > > About bad translation; > >You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. >I'm sure I don't deserve it. > >============ >To Craig Payne > > > Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of >the > blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc. > It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins >testing. "His > would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture" > a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did >notice > his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of > pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle. > > Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > wrote: > >Hi Larry; >You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I >immediatly corrected it. >About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a >much larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once >you are constantly recriminating "copy cats". > >=========== >To Craig Payne; > > A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from the >top skins > (which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. Did >you notice > he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3? > The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable: > > "After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix >trip of > changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find >that it is > newness." > > -- Craig > >Craig; >I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), and >for me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601. >Maybe I over did my job. > >=========== > >________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:14:56 PM PST US >From: "Craig Payne" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberto, > > >> You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. > >> 'm sure I don't deserve it. > >It was an automated translation done by Google. I don't speak Portuguese > >How do you like your Stratomaster Enigma so far? Mine arrives Friday. > >-- Craig > >________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:42:40 PM PST US >From: "Bill Naumuk" >Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials >anywhere. > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that >are attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right >through, see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of >the heat in. The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew >where the material came from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > >________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:51:58 PM PST US >From: "ron wehba" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >you can buy them from most resturant eq. supply shops > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Naumuk > To: zenith list > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:41 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > > > All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials >anywhere. > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic >that are attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk >right through, see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most >of the heat in. The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew >where the material came from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > > >________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:15:24 PM PST US >From: Rmtnview@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >_http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html_ >(http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html) > >Try this. Or Google "plastic strip door cover" and you'll get this and about >1.5 million other hits. > > >All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere. > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are >attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through, >see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. The > >one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material came >from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > > >________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:29:44 PM PST US >From: "Gary Boothe" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >I followed that link. I see why you like those.um.doors. > > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, >Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > > _____ > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Rmtnview@aol.com >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:15 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > > >http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html > > >Try this. Or Google "plastic strip door cover" and you'll get this and about >1.5 million other hits. > > >All- > > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere. > > > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are >attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through, >see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. >The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material >came from. > > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > > do not archive > >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > > >________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:07:27 PM PST US >From: NYTerminat@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >Bill, > >you can get them at _www.Teksupply.com_ (http://www.Teksupply.com) > >Bob Spudis >N701ZX / 85 hrs > >________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:11:49 PM PST US >From: "Graham Kirby" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberto, > >As you gathered, many on this list were concerned that you were planning >to >manufacture and sell kits, or completed aircraft based on your >modifications. From your message it sounds like you are a regular >builder, >building one plane from one set of plans. There is nothing wrong with >that. > > >Your web site is excellent, your plane is beautiful and I wish you all >the >luck in the world with your test flights. Please take the advice and >commentary from this group as constructive. Over the years that I have >been >a member of this group we have experienced several members becoming >"accident statistics". We cant afford to lose people like that. There >are >far too few Zenith (and Zenith-based) airplanes in the sky. > >Of course we are all building "Experimental" aircraft and at liberty to >make >whatever changes we like. Having a qualified aeronautical engineer >design/approve the modifications may well be helpful especially if he >agrees >to be the test pilot and will continue to monitor the condition of the >airframe as the plane ages. > >Best Regards, >Graham Kirby >601HD > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Ap. >Rodrigues de Brito >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:45 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > > >Hi Folks: > >Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > >To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > >I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words >that >do not reflect the events. > >Then see; >I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a >plane >and you said that I'm a thief. >You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes >aren't >approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer that >approved >them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed de wings, it >isn't >true. The wings are the same, the structural integrity is the same. >Then, >where is the robbery? What did I steal? >I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more >planes. >Is it robbery? >I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design >with >another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic XL >601. >Is it lack of ethics? >On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded >there >I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of >Drawings >and Invoice". > >Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate". >My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine settings. >Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk about >planes, of course, and drink some beer. > > >Roberto Brito. > >Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* "Pinheiro >Neto" will explain next week. >*Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil >"ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you > >=========== > > I'll reply Davidson's questions; > > > To Jeff Davidson; > > >Hi Jeff, > > Roberto, > > A couple questions if I may: > > Who is Air-Fox? >-- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves" > > Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300? >-- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller >with >reverse gear. It is > newness > > > Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas >yourself? >-- Exactly, it was myself and my employees. > > > Did you include roll-over protection? >-- Yes, I did. > > What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"? >-- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey >Davidson. It was just a joke. > > Nice looking seats! > > Thanks =85. > > Jeff Davidson > >============ > > Craig Payne; > > About bad translation; > >You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. >I'm sure I don't deserve it. > >============ >To Craig Payne > > > > Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of >the > blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc. > It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins >testing. >"His > would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture" > a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did >notice > > his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of > pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle. > > Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > wrote: >Hi Larry; >You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I >immediatly corrected it. >About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a >much >larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once you >are >constantly recriminating "copy cats". > >=========== >To Craig Payne; > > A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from the >top >skins > (which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. Did >you >notice > he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3? > The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable: > > "After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix >trip >of > changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find >that >it is > newness." > > -- Craig > >Craig; >I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), and >for >me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601. >Maybe I over did my job. > > >________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:21:18 PM PST US >From: "Zodie Rocket" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Sorry List I have sent my reply to Roberto directly, quite evidently he >does not understand that you cannot deviate from the designers plans on >major modifications and use another designer to fill in the blanks and >still Call it a Zodiac and advertise Chris Heintz=92s name. He believes >that including the plans still makes it a 601XL even though the >modifications were extensive. But he is willing to admit that he uses >Chris Heintz Designs for the basis for his new airplane. Now lets see >how honorable he is and if he builds Zodiac 601XL=92s as designed by >Chris >or continues to sell his new design stealing from Zodiac 601XL plans. >This really is a shame, I already know the answer, Chris believes that >everyone should have the chance to build a plane that is why he provides >the plans and Zenith offers builders support to plans builders. Chris >was quite upset at the pictures I showed him earlier this week of >Roberto=92s plane, but his comment was simply =93 I make it easy for >them to >sell against me=94 It is pretty sad when you think that he has to sell >his >product against several planes he has designed, but get small >modifications. I hope this one more copy of a Zodiac doesn=92t make the >company decide to make there next designs a kit only or worst a QBK >only. But it would make financial sense to not compete against your own >design. > >Do not archive > >Mark Townsend >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. >HYPERLINK >"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com >HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com > > >"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com >/Navigator?Zenith-List > > >"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com > > >"http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com > > >"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu >tion > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:26:34 PM PST US >From: "Southern Reflections" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberato, would you e-mail me some pict. of your plane? I"ve never seen >it.. By the way I have a set of plans with a good number that I'll be >glad to sell you at a ruduced price thanks . joe N101HD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:44 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > > > Hi Folks: > > Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > > To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > > I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter >words that do not reflect the events. > > Then see; > I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a >plane and you said that I'm a thief. > You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes >aren't approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer >that approved them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed >de wings, it isn't true. The wings are the same, the structural >integrity is the same. Then, where is the robbery? What did I steal? > I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more >planes. Is it robbery? > I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design >with another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic >XL 601. Is it lack of ethics? > On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded >there I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of >Drawings and Invoice". > > Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate". > My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine >settings. > Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk >about planes, of course, and drink some beer. > > > Roberto Brito. > > Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* >"Pinheiro Neto" will explain next week. > *Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil > "ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you > > >=========== > > I'll reply Davidson's questions; > > > To Jeff Davidson; > > > Hi Jeff, > > Roberto, > > A couple questions if I may: > > Who is Air-Fox? > -- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves" > > Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300? > -- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller >with reverse gear. It is > newness > > > Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas >yourself? > -- Exactly, it was myself and my employees. > > Did you include roll-over protection? > -- Yes, I did. > > What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"? > -- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey >Davidson. It was just a joke. > > Nice looking seats! > > Thanks =85. > > Jeff Davidson > > >============ > > Craig Payne; > > About bad translation; > > You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. > I'm sure I don't deserve it. > > >============ > To Craig Payne > > > Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of >the > blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc. > It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins >testing. "His > would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and >capture" > a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did >notice > his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of > pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle. > > Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > wrote: > > Hi Larry; > You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I >immediatly corrected it. > About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a >much larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once >you are constantly recriminating "copy cats". > > >=========== > To Craig Payne; > > A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from >the top skins > (which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. >Did you notice > he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3? > The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable: > > "After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix >trip of > changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find >that it is > newness." > > -- Craig > > Craig; > I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), >and for me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601. > Maybe I over did my job. > > >=========== > > >________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:37:44 PM PST US >From: "Graham Kirby" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Mark, >I dont see where Roberto says that he will be selling anything. - Mind >you, my Portuguese is pretty weak :-) >Graham Kirby >601HD > >do not archive > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie >Rocket >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:20 PM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > > >Sorry List I have sent my reply to Roberto directly, quite evidently he >does >not understand that you cannot deviate from the designers plans on major >modifications and use another designer to fill in the blanks and still >Call >it a Zodiac and advertise Chris Heintz's name. He believes that >including >the plans still makes it a 601XL even though the modifications were >extensive. But he is willing to admit that he uses Chris Heintz Designs >for >the basis for his new airplane. Now lets see how honorable he is and if >he >builds Zodiac 601XL's as designed by Chris or continues to sell his new >design stealing from Zodiac 601XL plans. >This really is a shame, I already know the answer, Chris believes that >everyone should have the chance to build a plane that is why he provides >the >plans and Zenith offers builders support to plans builders. Chris was >quite >upset at the pictures I showed him earlier this week of Roberto's plane, >but >his comment was simply " I make it easy for them to sell against me" It >is >pretty sad when you think that he has to sell his product against >several >planes he has designed, but get small modifications. I hope this one >more >copy of a Zodiac doesn't make the company decide to make there next >designs >a kit only or worst a QBK only. But it would make financial sense to not >compete against your own design. > >Do not archive > >Mark Townsend >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. >president@can-zacaviation.com >www.can-zacaviation.com > > >________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:39:28 PM PST US >From: Terry Phillips >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Whoa, Roberto > >I used no four-letter words. > >What I did say was: > >>"I agree that anyone building an experimental may make changes, at his or >>her own risk. But to make a commercial copy of a Chris Heintz design is >>dishonest and unethical. I hope that the Brazilians will not go forward >>with their copycat design. If they want to sell a kit, they should design >>one and sell it." > >My impression from your web site was that you intend to market your >modified 601 in Brazil. If that impression is incorrect, then, as I stated, >I have no problem with you making any changes whatever to the design and >flying the result at your own risk. > >However, if your intention is to sell plans, kits, or fully built planes of >your modified design, then I again stand by my original statement, that I >believe it is dishonest and unethical. And I hope you will change your >mind. I do not speak Portuguese-if I have misinterpreted your intentions, I >do apologize. > >I doubt I'll be able to make Oshkosh in '07, but maybe '08. If so, I would >love to view your plane and discuss your design over a couple of beers. > >Terry > > >At 09:44 PM 10/18/2006 -0200, you wrote: >>To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, >> >>I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words >>that do not reflect the events. >> > >Terry Phillips >ttp44@rkymtn.net > >________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:45:36 PM PST US >From: "kevinbonds" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberto >I commend you on your beautiful plane. I think it is nicest Zodiac >modification I've ever seen. I understand that you have a serial number and >you are free to do anything to your plane you want, but I believe that your >modifications are extensive enough that your plane will need extensive >testing to ensure it is safe to offer to the general public. In general the >people on this list are experimenters, not entrepreneurs. Once you cross >that line you have a different set of responsibilities. If you have deviated >from Chris Heintz' drawings with out his personal approval (regardless of >whom you have retained in his place), and are calling it a 601XL, you are >implying that it is his design. It may not have been your intention but, it >appears that you are trying to use Chris Heintz' reputation, and the >reputation of his design, in order to sell your product. The concern is that >any potential buyer would mistake your highly modified, and therefore >untested/unproven design, with the reputation of the Chris Heintz approved >version. In my opinion, it is irresponsible to suggest this in any >way--explicitly or otherwise. I hope it is your intention to clear this >up-and not to mislead your customers. I'm just some guy on the internet, and >you may not care what I think, but you may want to consider whether others >feel the same way. > >Kevin Bonds >Nashville TN >601XL Plans building. >http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > >do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > _____ > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Ap. >Rodrigues de Brito >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:45 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Hi Folks: > >Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > >To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > > >________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:56:53 PM PST US >From: ihab.awad@gmail.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > >On 10/18/06, Terry Phillips wrote: >> However, if your intention is to sell plans, kits, or fully built planes of >> your modified design, then ... > >Roberto requires that anyone building his modified design purchase a >set of plans from CH and show proof of purchase. So, what if Roberto >were to -- > >a. Provides paid builder support for constructing the aircraft; and/or -- > >b. Market prefabricated parts (up to or including a complete "kit") > >for the modified design. Would that be a breech of copyright or >contract? Would it be different if he were doing the same for the >unmodified design? > >My suspicion is that, unless he publishes a derivative work of the ** >plans **, he is clear of copyright violation. However, there may be >contractual issues that may attach to ownership of the plans that >prevent construction of a derivative design, or reverse engineering an >article constructed from the design, or whatever. Also, building a >business based on construction of modified plans may be considered _de >facto_ publication of a modified version of the plans. Does anyone >have the contract they signed with Zenith handy? What does it say or >not say? Any lawyers on this group know how these things go? > >Just some thoughts. Again, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal >advice. Regards, > >Ihab > >-- >Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:04:22 PM PST US >From: ihab.awad@gmail.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > >I should add to my previous comments -- > >What I really would like to know is what CH's legal and business >structure for copies or modifications of his designs really is. His >indignation -- however heartfelt -- does not count. He is a successful >aircraft designer and the general "form" of his designs are classic >"patterns" (especially the CH701/801 series) that are hard to avoid >once you've seen them. Sort of like the similarities between the Piper >Cub and any of a number of other aircraft -- I'm not sure which came >first, but there are bezillions of Cub-like thingeys buzzing around. > >Ihab > > >________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:06:04 PM PST US >From: "Jeff " >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: cowl or mount > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " > > >"Bill, >If you were using a Stratus Subaru, the adapted mounts provided by >Stratus would fit the 912 rotax mount. You could consider buying the >Adapters from Stratus and buy that 912 mount from Zenith." > >Or Bill you could get in touch with me if you are interested in a used 912 >mount I bought for myself. I went with a Jabiru. Jeff Davidson >Jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net > > >________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:36:31 PM PST US >From: Sigmo@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Yes but they don't call their "Cub like thingies" a piper cub using Pipers >name to sell the thingies. If it's a thingie it needs to be called a >thingie....... > >My 2 cents worth. >Mike Sigman >N7092N 601XL > >________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:24:29 PM PST US >From: Terry Turnquist >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Harmon Rocket > > do not archive > >ihab.awad@gmail.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > >I should add to my previous comments -- > >What I really would like to know is what CH's legal and business >structure for copies or modifications of his designs really is. His >indignation -- however heartfelt -- does not count. He is a successful >aircraft designer and the general "form" of his designs are classic >"patterns" (especially the CH701/801 series) that are hard to avoid >once you've seen them. Sort of like the similarities between the Piper >Cub and any of a number of other aircraft -- I'm not sure which came >first, but there are bezillions of Cub-like thingeys buzzing around. > >Ihab > > > >--------------------------------- > >________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:50:38 PM PST US >From: NYTerminat@aol.com >Subject: Zenith-List: skis for 701 > >list, > >With winter coming up, does anybody have any plans to build skis for the >701? Does anyone know where I can purchase plans for the skis? I like the ones > >that utilize the tires and skis together. > >Bob Spudis >N701ZX/ 85hrs > >________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:21:40 PM PST US >From: "Craig Payne" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >These are common in the food and restaurant industry. You see them on >walk-in refrigerators and warehouse doors. > >-- Craig > > _____ > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:41 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > > >All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere. > > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are >attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through, >see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. >The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material >came from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:37 PM PST US From: Juan Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 10/18/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan all, I have been putting on the horizontal Stab and when I finally pu th glass tips, which were nice and strait, I looked and saw one trailing edge tip, the port side, to be lower by 15 -20 mm. or 5 degrees. we spen two days removing rivets and forming a new rib to get ithe elevator to zero twist. we finally got it to less than 1/4 inch. No mater at this point how were try to cajol it straight that is the best we can do, 1/4 twist. And this is a QWK Build Kit, machine drilled, etc.. to Boot! Is this within tollerances? and has anyone had that problem. And yes this is the most fun I have had in a while! Juan First time builder, 601 xl Tampa -----Original Message----- >From: Zenith-List Digest Server >Sent: Oct 19, 2006 2:58 AM >To: Zenith-List Digest List >Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 10/18/06 > >* > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > >Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the >two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >such as Notepad or with a web browser. > >HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-10-18.html > >Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-10-18.txt > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 10/18/06: 54 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >Today's Message Index: >---------------------- > > 1. 12:10 AM - Off topic: my next airplane (JOHN STARN) > 2. 01:58 AM - Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (Jari Kaija) > 3. 04:51 AM - Re: 801 fuel sender inspection covers. (squiggles) > 4. 06:10 AM - 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Jay Herron) > 5. 06:58 AM - Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Dave Ruddiman) > 6. 07:49 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Paul Tipton) > 7. 08:08 AM - Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? (Jay Herron) > 8. 08:22 AM - Re: Inspection covers. () > 9. 08:28 AM - Re: Inspection covers. () > 10. 08:39 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane () > 11. 08:42 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane () > 12. 09:03 AM - Re: Inspection covers. (doug kandle) > 13. 09:14 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Noel Loveys) > 14. 09:34 AM - Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Noel Loveys) > 15. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (MacDonald Doug) > 16. 09:42 AM - cowl or mount (Bill Flick) > 17. 09:45 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane (Noel Loveys) > 18. 09:45 AM - Re: Off topic: my next airplane (Noel Loveys) > 19. 10:12 AM - Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A (Jari Kaija) > 20. 11:06 AM - Re: cowl or mount (LarryMcFarland) > 21. 11:30 AM - Re: Inspection covers. (Dave Ruddiman) > 22. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Jim Hoak) > 23. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Mounting ELT in 701 (Juan) > 24. 01:03 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (JOHN STARN) > 25. 01:08 PM - Re: First Flight (Juan) > 26. 01:14 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? (Juan) > 27. 01:59 PM - Front canopy hoop attachment (Eddie Seve) > 28. 02:28 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? (Robin Bellach) > 29. 02:28 PM - Re: Front canopy hoop attachment (Ron Lendon) > 30. 02:43 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (Gary Boothe) > 31. 03:02 PM - Re: First Flight (Zodie Rocket) > 32. 03:13 PM - Re: Inspection covers. (Dave Ruddiman) > 33. 04:25 PM - Re: Front canopy hoop attachment (N5SL) > 34. 04:59 PM - Re: First Flight (Gary Gower) > 35. 05:46 PM - A special Zodiac XL 601 (Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito) > 36. 06:14 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Craig Payne) > 37. 06:42 PM - Sheet plastic shop door (Bill Naumuk) > 38. 06:51 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (ron wehba) > 39. 07:15 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Rmtnview@aol.com) > 40. 07:29 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Gary Boothe) > 41. 08:07 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (NYTerminat@aol.com) > 42. 08:11 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Graham Kirby) > 43. 08:21 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Zodie Rocket) > 44. 08:26 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Southern Reflections) > 45. 08:37 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Graham Kirby) > 46. 08:39 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Terry Phillips) > 47. 08:45 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (kevinbonds) > 48. 08:56 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (ihab.awad@gmail.com) > 49. 09:04 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (ihab.awad@gmail.com) > 50. 09:06 PM - Re: cowl or mount (Jeff) > 51. 09:36 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Sigmo@aol.com) > 52. 10:24 PM - Re: A special Zodiac XL 601 (Terry Turnquist) > 53. 10:50 PM - skis for 701 (NYTerminat@aol.com) > 54. 11:21 PM - Re: Sheet plastic shop door (Craig Payne) > > > >________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:10:24 AM PST US >From: "JOHN STARN" >Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ? >KABONG 8*) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Craig Payne" >Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:35 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > > >> -- Craig >> >> Do Not Archive >> > >________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:58:42 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A >From: "Jari Kaija" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > > >Jari Kaija wrote: >> CH701, 912A and self made exhaust system: >> I need dimensions for muffler. It's diameter and length. >> > > >Hey! Wake up people! > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68680#68680 > > >________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 04:51:11 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 fuel sender inspection covers. >From: "squiggles" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "squiggles" > >When owning previous airplanes I have had the need to both inspect the tank connections >and get at the fuel senders. Thus, when I did my 801's wings I swapped >the inboard and outboard skins. The outboard( now inboard ) skins are attached >with screws and nutplates. > >The idea you describe sounds okay, though watch the clearance with the nutplates. >Even if they do not contact the tanks, you might want to make sure there is >cork to ensure they do not vibrate on the tank. > >Thoughts to consider.... > >Happy Building >-Scott[/quote] > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68688#68688 > > >________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:10:17 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? >From: "Jay Herron" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" > >I know the strut fairings make the plane look nicer, but has anyone done perfomance >tests with and without them on the 801? > >Thanks, >Jay Herron >Salem, Ohio >801 96.5% complete > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68698#68698 > > >________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:58:40 AM PST US >From: "Dave Ruddiman" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > >Jay, > >I bought the fairings for my plane just for looks. Haven't got to that part >yet though.I can't imagine they would have a measurable difference on >performance. Since I will probably fly alone about 95% of the time and >having 180HP, and being way under gross, I'm sure it would be hard to >measure. Plus, you would have to fly without them and then go to the trouble >to install them and check again. But, the bottom line is, if it looks good >and you like it, do it. 96.5% complete? What have you got left and do you >have any suggestions for me with tail surfaces done and 1 wing almost done. >But, I do have my engine on order. > > >Dave in Salem (Oregon) Do not archive. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jay Herron" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:08 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" >> >> I know the strut fairings make the plane look nicer, but has anyone done >> perfomance tests with and without them on the 801? >> >> Thanks, >> Jay Herron >> Salem, Ohio >> 801 96.5% complete >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68698#68698 >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:49:01 AM PST US >From: "Paul Tipton" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >Mounted mine just behing the right seat to the far right in the baggage >compartment. Easy to get to for checking, battery change, etc. >321PT > >________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:08:16 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 strut fairings: Performance improvement? >From: "Jay Herron" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" > >Dave, >I still have some wiring to do, then move it out of the garage and put the wings >on. Everything is built, just need to hook up a few things. I could get it >done in less than 30 days if I would concentrate on it :) In reality, I've only >worked on it one day in the last two months. Today will hopefully be day >two. > >I have the strut fairings already, but it would cut several days off of my schedule >if I omit them. I can always add them later, unless someone says "it won't >fly right without them". I am betting that one of our fellow builders has >flown theirs without the fairings and then added them later. Hopefully they noted >the performance increase or lack of after adding. > >Happy building! >Jay Herron >Salem, Ohio >801 96.6% complete :) > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68722#68722 > > >________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:22:01 AM PST US >From: >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Radio Shack sells those little vibrating engraver tools (cheap and easy to use). >I consider it a must for my project. When I have fitted and drilled a piece, >it has to be removed, deburred, and primed (and sometimes painted) before it >is ready for rivetting later. When I take the piece off to do all that stuff, >the first step is to ID it with the little engraver. It does not lead to cracks >or fraternization with green scotchbrite (I use a security camera to monitor >the parts while I'm at work). I put the ID where it will not be seen once the >part is installed. That allows me to positively ID the parts location and its >orientation with arrows as needed. Even once the part is primed or painted the >marks can still be seen. The same goes for my inspection hatch covers.... they >all bear location and orientation marks on the inside. > >Ed Moody II >Rayne, LA >601XL / Jabiru / fuselage > > >---- Gary Boothe wrote: >> Dave, >> >If you decide to make any kind of screw-on inspection cover, be >> sure to make the screw pattern an obvious indication of which direction the >> plate goes on. If you have multiple plates, mark them to show placement. >> Life will be better. >> >> Gary Boothe >> Cool, CA >> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, >> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > >________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:28:20 AM PST US >From: >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now. > >Ed > >---- Gary Boothe wrote: >> Dave, >> >> >> >> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals. >> >> >> >> Gary - Do not archive >> >> >> >> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off... >> >> >> >> Dave > > >________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:39:01 AM PST US >From: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >And everybody will be so shocked when that dog bites you without any apparent warning...... >Hell, I could see that "Step a little closer" look in those eyes >even through the goggles! > >Ed > >---- Craig Payne wrote: >> -- Craig >> >> Do Not Archive > > >________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:42:36 AM PST US >From: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Nope..... obviously a Sky(e) Terrier, > >Ed > >---- JOHN STARN wrote: >> IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ? >> KABONG 8*) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Craig Payne" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:35 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane >> >> >> > -- Craig >> > >> > Do Not Archive >> > > > >________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:03:23 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection covers. >From: "doug kandle" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" > > >pacificpainting(at)comcas wrote: >> what >> about the holes in the skin for the fuel tank caps? Would I be correct in >> assuming that there might be less stress because they are somewhat smaller >> and are fairly close to both the spar and a rib? Just curious. >> >> --- > >The fuel tank cap holes were designed in, not a builder add on. I assume that >the designer knows what he was doing. But I don't have any easy way to determine >how much stress must be supported in any particular location on the skin and >therefore I assume the worst (that it must be full strength). I have heard >rules of thumb - like the farther out on the wing you go, the less stress the >skin must withstand. The FAA takes design changes very seriously and I think >we all should too. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68737#68737 > > >________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:14:32 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger >compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or less >level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front will >be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft. > >If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces >you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in the >instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before landing >in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted. > >Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> doug kandle >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >> >> >> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where >> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The >> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting >> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable." >> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material >> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that? >> The installation specification states that the center line of >> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of >> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than >> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a >> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the >> ELT to the bottom of the tail. >> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >> paragraph 3.1.8 required? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:34:17 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >It's not really recommended to install inspection ports in the top of the >wings. Some times you will see several inspection ports fairly close >together on the bottom of the wings. If a screw on the top of the wing >comes loose then an inspection port can be ripped from the wing (not good) >Inspection ports on the top of any horizontal surface can leak water into >the unit, be it a wing, fuselage or horizontal stabilizer (also not good). > >IMHO inspection ports in the sides/bottom of a plane are a good idea if they >don't require the cutting of a structural member and if they do cut a >structural member are properly framed out. >Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM >> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:52 AM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" >> >> If you will check my site you will find I put an access door >> in the bottom >> near the rear. Then I used two pieces of 3"X1/8" aluminum >> flat stock to >> make a platform from side to side just inside of the door. >> They are riveted >> to the lonerons. There I mounted my ELT. I also ended up >> having to mount >> a battery in the back for CG purposes. I couldn't have >> installed either one >> without the door. Zenith cuts a lot of corners in the name >> of lightness. >> What they don't seem to care about is having to inspect or do >> maintenance at >> some time in the future. It's sorta like building a boat in >> the basement. >> I also believe in inspection plates. My wings came with 12 >> per wing and I >> added four more on top. And, they have doublers. There is >> almost nothing >> on my plane I can't get to. All in all maybe I added 2 >> pounds but it's >> worth it not to have to pull skin off or cut holes at some >> later date, and >> it will happen. >> >> Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "doug kandle" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:57 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >> >> > >> > I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. >> Where do I mount >> > it? The instructions with the ELT say "The mounting >> surface must be >> > extremely rigid; therefore, mounting the ELT directly to >> the aircraft skin >> > is unacceptable." >> > There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >> mount the ELT >> > except the skin. Have others added material attached to >> the longerons and >> > then mounted the ELT to that? >> > The installation specification states that the center line >> of the ELT must >> > be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of flight. >> Well, the bottom >> > of the tail is slanted up more than 10 degrees so this >> means that to meet >> > this specification a bracket would need to be made even of >> I were to >> > attach the ELT to the bottom of the tail. >> > Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >> paragraph 3.1.8 >> > required? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:39:54 AM PST US >From: MacDonald Doug >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug > >Jari, I have my muffler sitting loose at home. I'll >check the measurements you asked for when I get off >work this afternoon. > >do not archive > >Doug MacDonald >NW Ontario, Canada >CH-701 Scratch builder >Working on cabin sides > > >__________________________________________________ > > >________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:42:59 AM PST US >From: "Bill Flick" >Subject: Zenith-List: cowl or mount > >anyone have a cowl or mount for subaru to 601 hds or have plans or >measurements for the mount which i can make up? (i have made other >mounts) how far off firewall to face of crank pulley or to the face >side of the prop flange? any help will be greatly appreciated. thanks >ralph > >________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:45:16 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >LOL!!! > >Noel >Do Not Archive > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> JOHN STARN >> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:39 AM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane >> >> >> IT'S AN "AIREDALE".....Right ? ? ? >> KABONG 8*) >> > > >________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:45:16 AM PST US >From: "Noel Loveys" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Off topic: my next airplane > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > >Red Baron eat your heart out! > >Noel >Do Not Archive > > >________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:12:52 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Muffler dimensions CH701 & Rotax 912A >From: "Jari Kaija" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > >Got it! Thank's to sender. > >btw, I should use "RTFM" method more often: > >It was too near to make wrong kind of muffler [Embarassed] > >CH701 uses muffler, where incoming tubes goes to >both sides. > >Only real-life installation what I saw ever in another kind of >plane uses method, where incoming tubes goes to top >and I didn't check it from zenair's photo assembly guides >either [Rolling Eyes] Shame on me! > >Do not archive > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68751#68751 > > >________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:06:45 AM PST US >From: LarryMcFarland >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cowl or mount > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > >Bill, >If you were using a Stratus Subaru, the adapted mounts provided by >Stratus would fit the 912 rotax mount. You could consider buying the >adapters >from Stratus and buy that 912 mount from Zenith. I do have a >drawing/sketch of the mount needed for the Stratus as I made my own >and Zenith didn't have a ready to go drawing, so they sent me a sketch >with dimensions. When I got done, it fit. >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/engmtplan.gif >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/engoffsetplan.gif >I can send you a scanned image of the engine mount sketch/drawing if >this type is suitable. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > >Bill Flick wrote: > >> anyone have a cowl or mount for subaru to 601 hds or have plans or >> measurements for the mount which i can make up? (i have made other >> mounts) how far off firewall to face of crank pulley or to the face >> side of the prop flange? any help will be greatly appreciated. >> thanks ralph >> >>* >>* >> > > >________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:30:08 AM PST US >From: "Dave Ruddiman" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > >What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular household >variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after market >products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really confused >now. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:27 AM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: >> >> Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now. >> >> Ed >> >> ---- Gary Boothe wrote: >>> Dave, >>> >>> >>> >>> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals. >>> >>> >>> >>> Gary - Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off... >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:17:50 PM PST US >From: "Jim Hoak" >Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" > >I believe ELTs are now required to have a remote switch and indicator light >in a place the pilot can see and reach. I may be wrong about this but I seem >to remember this from some info about ten years ago. Look into it! > >Jim Hoak > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Noel Loveys" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 PM >Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" >> >> A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger >> compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or >> less >> level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front >> will >> be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft. >> >> If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces >> you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in >> the >> instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before >> landing >> in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted. >> >> Noel >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> doug kandle >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM >>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >>> >>> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >>> >>> >>> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where >>> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The >>> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting >>> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable." >>> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >>> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material >>> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that? >>> The installation specification states that the center line of >>> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of >>> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than >>> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a >>> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the >>> ELT to the bottom of the tail. >>> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >>> paragraph 3.1.8 required? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:52:27 PM PST US >From: Juan >Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >I have seen them on other zodiacs on the floor or as on the demo model, in the >luggage compartment. >I am installing mine and am putting it on the right of the flap motr along the >center line. > >Juan Vega,Jr. >601 xl builder, Tampa Florida > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Jim Hoak >>Sent: Oct 18, 2006 3:16 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" >> >>I believe ELTs are now required to have a remote switch and indicator light >>in a place the pilot can see and reach. I may be wrong about this but I seem >>to remember this from some info about ten years ago. Look into it! >> >>Jim Hoak >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Noel Loveys" >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:13 PM >>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" >>> >>> A Lot of aircraft will have a small tray installed behind the passenger >>> compartment. This tray is installed such that the ELT will be more or >>> less >>> level when in flight and the big arrow on the ELT that designates front >>> will >>> be parallel to the centre line of the aircraft. >>> >>> If you are using the aircraft on floats or on particularly rough surfaces >>> you might want to consider a remote arm switch that can be installed in >>> the >>> instrument panel. It will allow you to turn off the ELT just before >>> landing >>> in rough areas and causing accidental signals being transmitted. >>> >>> Noel >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>>> doug kandle >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:27 PM >>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting ELT in 701 >>>> >>>> >>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "doug kandle" >>>> >>>> >>>> I went to mount my ELT in my 701 today and hit a snag. Where >>>> do I mount it? The instructions with the ELT say "The >>>> mounting surface must be extremely rigid; therefore, mounting >>>> the ELT directly to the aircraft skin is unacceptable." >>>> There is no surface in the tail of the 701 large enough to >>>> mount the ELT except the skin. Have others added material >>>> attached to the longerons and then mounted the ELT to that? >>>> The installation specification states that the center line of >>>> the ELT must be mounted within 10 degrees of the direction of >>>> flight. Well, the bottom of the tail is slanted up more than >>>> 10 degrees so this means that to meet this specification a >>>> bracket would need to be made even of I were to attach the >>>> ELT to the bottom of the tail. >>>> Do the DAR's look at this; and is meeting RTCA DO-183 >>>> paragraph 3.1.8 required? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68609#68609 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:03:24 PM PST US >From: "JOHN STARN" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" > > "I'm really confused now." > >You didn't to tell us that Dave, we already knew. KABONG 8*) Do Not >Archive >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >> >> >> What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >> tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular >> household variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after >> market products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really >> confused now. > > >________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:08:05 PM PST US >From: Juan >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab higher >and that should make the plane go up to offset the down deflection. Wings being >off would probably cause a yaw to left or right not up or down. >I could be wrong, I usualy am. > >Juan Vega >601xl, Tampa FLA > >-----Original Message----- >>From: george may >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" >> >> >>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday >>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky was >>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding. Take >>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm using >>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best guess >>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max >>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep >>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled the >>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green engine >>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back pressure on >>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph >> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for control >>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern altitute for >>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the stick. >>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also >>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought at >>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I extended >>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final lineup. >>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very >>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and >>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet >> >> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are >>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is probably >>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be >>checking that out on Monday. >> >>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help >>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight. >> >>George May >>Zodiac 601XL 912s >>N221GM >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Try the new Live Search today! >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:14:39 PM PST US >From: Juan >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >If you can hand spin it with ease, and there is no twist motion, its tight enough, >no science, more of a feel thang. > >Juan > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com> >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 9:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> >> >>I don't understand how to properly fit/shim the front axle to achieve proper >>spacing and tension on the wheel bearings. My wheel fork is 152mm wide >>outside, 142mm inside. The wheel width overall at the bearings is about 75mm >>and adding 62mm for the spacers = 137mm. That leaves about 5mm of slack. The >>kit includes 2 AN960-1216 washers that I thought would go on the outside >>under the castle nuts. Should these actually be on the inside of the fork to >>take up that 5mm of slack, or should they be on the outside with and >>additional pair on the inside? (I notice that 2 AN960-1216's total about 5mm >>thick so seems would be about right.) How does one properly shim the >>bearings and tighten the axle nuts to get the right tension on the wheel >>bearings? >> >> Robin, confused in AR >> N601ZV Zen-Vair >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:59:19 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Front canopy hoop attachment >From: "Eddie Seve" > >Hi Listers, > >I am hoping that one of you that has completed or is working on their >canopy installation might be able to help me. > >I installed the front canopy hoop onto the canopy frame in my 601XL last >night and discovered that I don't have the front hoop attachment >brackets specified in the photo guides, these are identified as 6-C-3 / >9, but my drawings do not show that part at all. The only reference I >have to this part is a blown up drawing on 6-C-4 showing that the hoop >is attached using a bracket with 6 A5 rivets. > >Can someone tell me if this part if made from aluminium or steel and >what its thickness is? > >I have made a temporary bracket from some scrap aluminium that came with >the kit, thickness is about 40thou. > >Best Regards, >Eddie Seve > >http://www.mykitlog.com/eddieseve > > >________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:28:41 PM PST US >From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> > >Thanks. I think I've got it now. > >Do not archive. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Juan" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 3:14 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan >> >> If you can hand spin it with ease, and there is no twist motion, its >> tight enough, no science, more of a feel thang. >> >> Juan >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com> >>>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 9:58 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Wheel axle assembly ? >>> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> >>> >>>I don't understand how to properly fit/shim the front axle to achieve >>>proper >>>spacing and tension on the wheel bearings. My wheel fork is 152mm wide >>>outside, 142mm inside. The wheel width overall at the bearings is about >>>75mm >>>and adding 62mm for the spacers = 137mm. That leaves about 5mm of slack. >>>The >>>kit includes 2 AN960-1216 washers that I thought would go on the outside >>>under the castle nuts. Should these actually be on the inside of the fork >>>to >>>take up that 5mm of slack, or should they be on the outside with and >>>additional pair on the inside? (I notice that 2 AN960-1216's total about >>>5mm >>>thick so seems would be about right.) How does one properly shim the >>>bearings and tighten the axle nuts to get the right tension on the wheel >>>bearings? >>> >>> Robin, confused in AR >>> N601ZV Zen-Vair >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:28:41 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Front canopy hoop attachment >From: "Ron Lendon" > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" > >The part you refer to is .063 6061 T6, 19mm wide and 120mm long. They show a 40 >degree bend 60mm from the square end. Trim O/B side. > >Drawing date 7/05 > >Hope that helps, > >-------- >Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=68795#68795 > > >________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:43:07 PM PST US >From: "Gary Boothe" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" > >Dave, > >You raise relevant points. I think the shear rating is most important on >under-wing applications, while the tension rating would apply to >top-of-wing. It would not matter if it was "industrial" or "household" as >long as it was at the certified rating. Certainly, anything other than >"Velcro" would require an STC. As to color, my guess is that any color >except green would be certified (wouldn't want anyone to mistake the green >Velcro for scotchbrite). > >What really concerns me, though, is the adhesive with which the Velcro is >applied. It'll take someone smarter than I to determine the required testing >for that (after all, I'm just a guy who travels too much for work with way >too much time on my hands in a motel!) > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, >Tail done, wings done, working on c-section >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > >What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular household >variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after market >products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm really confused > >now. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:27 AM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: >> >> Yep.... just as well convert them to Velcro now. >> >> Ed >> >> ---- Gary Boothe wrote: >>> Dave, >>> >>> >>> >>> Now you've done it!! You just condemned yourself to multiple removals. >>> >>> >>> >>> Gary - Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> ...Another thing, hopefully these things never have to be taken off... >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:02:16 PM PST US >From: "Zodie Rocket" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > >George go for another flight and set yourself up for a level and stable >flight. Now measuere a specific spot on your stick to a specific spot on >your panel. Land and set the stick to the measured distance you did in >the air and check out the elevator. This should indicate the way you >need to move the stabilizer and sometimes you can guess how much you >need to move it also . Repeat this with process until you have a >straight and level flight in typical configuration with an even >elevator. Also before you do ANYTHING get your local advisor to ensure >your in appropriate CG don't guess re-measure and be sure. > >cdngoose >Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC >www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:07 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab >higher and that should make the plane go up to offset the down >deflection. Wings being off would probably cause a yaw to left or right >not up or down. >I could be wrong, I usualy am. > >Juan Vega >601xl, Tampa FLA > >-----Original Message----- >>From: george may >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" >> >> >>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday > >>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky >was >>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding. >Take >>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm >using >>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best >guess >>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max >>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep >>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled >the >>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green >engine >>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back >pressure on >>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph >> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for >control >>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern >altitute for >>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the >stick. >>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also > >>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought >at >>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I >extended >>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final >lineup. >>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very > >>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and >>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet >> >> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are >>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is >probably >>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be > >>checking that out on Monday. >> >>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help > >>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight. >> >>George May >>Zodiac 601XL 912s >>N221GM >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Try the new Live Search today! >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FOR >M=WLMTAG >> >> > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:13:39 PM PST US >From: "Dave Ruddiman" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > >I didn't know that I was that obvious. > >do not archive > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "JOHN STARN" >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:24 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" >> >> "I'm really confused now." >> >> You didn't to tell us that Dave, we already knew. KABONG 8*) Do Not >> Archive >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection covers. >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >>> >>> >>> What is the rating for Velcro. Would it need to be higher in shear or >>> tension? Do I have to use industrial strength or just the regular >>> household variety. Does it have to be "Velcro" brand or can I use after >>> market products as long as they are approved. What about Color? I'm >>> really confused now. >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 04:25:22 PM PST US >From: N5SL >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Front canopy hoop attachment > >Eddie:=0A=0AYou can weld a tab on your canopy frame like I did:=0Ahttp://ww >w.cooknwithgas.com/7_22_06_Canopy2.JPG=0AI saw this at Oshkosh on the Facto >ry quick-build kit on display.=0A=0AOr you can make the part as shown in th >is picture of the drawing:=0Ahttp://www.cooknwithgas.com/6-C-3-9.gif=0A=0AE >ither way will work fine. =0A=0AHere's another idea I got from the factory >kit on display at Oshkosh. Slide a large heat shrink sleeve around the hoo >ps and heat them up before final installation. It looks great and makes a >tough surface on the hoops. You can see it on the first picture above. Le >t me know if you have more questions as the canopy build is all fresh in my > mind. =0A=0AHave fun,=0A=0AScott Laughlin=0AFinishing up upholstery / Tes >ting Engine=0Awww.cooknwithgas.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- >=0AFrom: Eddie Seve =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AI am hoping t >hat one of you that has completed or is=0Aworking on their canopy installat >ion might be able to help me. I don=A2t have the front=0Ahoop attachment br >ackets specified in the photo guides, these are identified as=0A6-C-3 / 9, >=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A > >________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 04:59:02 PM PST US >From: Gary Gower >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight > >Hello George, > >Probably this advise is not necesary, but worth mentioning: Try the flight(s) >early in the morning, so the air is calm, will work better, sometimes late >in the afternoon, but beware of the hour, sometimes we get carried away with >a beautyfull sunset and gets dark... Not the best scenario for landing a new >airplane... > >Good luck and congratulations... > >Saludos >Gary Gower. >Flying form Chapala, Mexico. > >Zodie Rocket wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie >Rocket" > >George go for another flight and set yourself up for a level and stable >flight. Now measuere a specific spot on your stick to a specific spot on >your panel. Land and set the stick to the measured distance you did in >the air and check out the elevator. This should indicate the way you >need to move the stabilizer and sometimes you can guess how much you >need to move it also . Repeat this with process until you have a >straight and level flight in typical configuration with an even >elevator. Also before you do ANYTHING get your local advisor to ensure >your in appropriate CG don't guess re-measure and be sure. > >cdngoose >Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH801 C-FHUC >www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:07 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan > >George, check the deflection on the horiz stab. you can adjust the stab >higher and that should make the plane go up to offset the down >deflection. Wings being off would probably cause a yaw to left or right >not up or down. >I could be wrong, I usualy am. > >Juan Vega >601xl, Tampa FLA > >-----Original Message----- >>From: george may >>Sent: Oct 15, 2006 6:58 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" >> >> >>Well folks, this list has helped to launch another Zodiac. On Saturday > >>morning at about 9:00AM, N221GM launched off for its first flight. Sky >was >>crystal clear, winds calm, and the foliage of New England outstanding. >Take >>off occurred after about a 450 foot run with a climbout at 85mph. I'm >using >>a dynon system for EFIS and forgot to set it up with VSI, so my best >guess >>is that the climb was about 600-700fpm. No attempt was made for a max >>climb, just a relatively gently one. I climbed to 2500ft, took a deep >>breath, enjoyed the secenery for a couple of minutes and gently circled >the >>field checking out pitch, roll and yaw. With everything in the green >engine >>wise the only issued appeared to be the need for continuous back >pressure on >>the elevator which could not be trimmed out. Speed was 95-100mph >> Since the preflight plan was take off, climb to 2500, circle for >control >>checks and land, it was time to start the drop back to pattern >altitute for >>landing. I still had the need for significant back pressure on the >stick. >>Luckily as the speed dropped to 65-70mph the backpressure required also > >>dropped making the landing approach a lot less exciting than I thought >at >>first it might be. Knowing I had to continue to hold back stick , I >extended >>the downwind leg figuring it would give me more time for the final >lineup. >>All went well. The zodiac is a really well behaved plane, and was very > >>stable through the base and final. I came over the fence at 65mph and >>settled right on the numbers. Full stop was in about 350feet >> >> All suggestions for fixes to alleviate the elevator backpressure are >>appreciated. Since the pressure varied with speed, I assume it is >probably >>a misalignment of incidence between the wing,fuse and/or stab. I'll be > >>checking that out on Monday. >> >>Thanks to everyone on the list for your comments, suggestions and help > >>especially to list member Jeff Paris for the familiarization flight. >> >>George May >>Zodiac 601XL 912s >>N221GM >> > > > >--------------------------------- > >________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 05:46:34 PM PST US >From: "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" >Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Hi Folks: > >Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > >To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > >I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words >that do not reflect the events. > >Then see; >I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a >plane and you said that I'm a thief. >You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes >aren't approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer >that approved them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed >de wings, it isn't true. The wings are the same, the structural >integrity is the same. Then, where is the robbery? What did I steal? >I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more >planes. Is it robbery? >I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design >with another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic >XL 601. Is it lack of ethics? >On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded >there I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of >Drawings and Invoice". > >Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate". >My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine settings. >Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk about >planes, of course, and drink some beer. > > >Roberto Brito. > >Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* "Pinheiro >Neto" will explain next week. >*Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil >"ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you > >=========== > > I'll reply Davidson's questions; > > > To Jeff Davidson; > > >Hi Jeff, > > Roberto, > > A couple questions if I may: > > Who is Air-Fox? >-- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves" > > Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300? >-- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller >with reverse gear. It is > newness > > > Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas >yourself? >-- Exactly, it was myself and my employees. > > Did you include roll-over protection? >-- Yes, I did. > > What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"? >-- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey >Davidson. It was just a joke. > > Nice looking seats! > > Thanks =85. > > Jeff Davidson > >============ > > Craig Payne; > > About bad translation; > >You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. >I'm sure I don't deserve it. > >============ >To Craig Payne > > > Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of >the > blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc. > It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins >testing. "His > would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture" > a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did >notice > his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of > pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle. > > Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > wrote: > >Hi Larry; >You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I >immediatly corrected it. >About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a >much larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once >you are constantly recriminating "copy cats". > >=========== >To Craig Payne; > > A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from the >top skins > (which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. Did >you notice > he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3? > The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable: > > "After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix >trip of > changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find >that it is > newness." > > -- Craig > >Craig; >I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), and >for me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601. >Maybe I over did my job. > >=========== > >________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:14:56 PM PST US >From: "Craig Payne" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberto, > > >> You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. > >> 'm sure I don't deserve it. > >It was an automated translation done by Google. I don't speak Portuguese > >How do you like your Stratomaster Enigma so far? Mine arrives Friday. > >-- Craig > >________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:42:40 PM PST US >From: "Bill Naumuk" >Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials >anywhere. > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that >are attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right >through, see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of >the heat in. The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew >where the material came from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > >________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:51:58 PM PST US >From: "ron wehba" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >you can buy them from most resturant eq. supply shops > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Naumuk > To: zenith list > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:41 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > > > All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials >anywhere. > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic >that are attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk >right through, see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most >of the heat in. The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew >where the material came from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > > >________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:15:24 PM PST US >From: Rmtnview@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >_http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html_ >(http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html) > >Try this. Or Google "plastic strip door cover" and you'll get this and about >1.5 million other hits. > > >All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere. > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are >attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through, >see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. The > >one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material came >from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > > >________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:29:44 PM PST US >From: "Gary Boothe" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >I followed that link. I see why you like those.um.doors. > > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, >Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > > _____ > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Rmtnview@aol.com >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:15 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > > >http://www.pvcstrip.com/doors-intro.html > > >Try this. Or Google "plastic strip door cover" and you'll get this and about >1.5 million other hits. > > >All- > > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere. > > > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are >attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through, >see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. >The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material >came from. > > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > > do not archive > >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > > >________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:07:27 PM PST US >From: NYTerminat@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >Bill, > >you can get them at _www.Teksupply.com_ (http://www.Teksupply.com) > >Bob Spudis >N701ZX / 85 hrs > >________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:11:49 PM PST US >From: "Graham Kirby" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberto, > >As you gathered, many on this list were concerned that you were planning >to >manufacture and sell kits, or completed aircraft based on your >modifications. From your message it sounds like you are a regular >builder, >building one plane from one set of plans. There is nothing wrong with >that. > > >Your web site is excellent, your plane is beautiful and I wish you all >the >luck in the world with your test flights. Please take the advice and >commentary from this group as constructive. Over the years that I have >been >a member of this group we have experienced several members becoming >"accident statistics". We cant afford to lose people like that. There >are >far too few Zenith (and Zenith-based) airplanes in the sky. > >Of course we are all building "Experimental" aircraft and at liberty to >make >whatever changes we like. Having a qualified aeronautical engineer >design/approve the modifications may well be helpful especially if he >agrees >to be the test pilot and will continue to monitor the condition of the >airframe as the plane ages. > >Best Regards, >Graham Kirby >601HD > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Ap. >Rodrigues de Brito >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:45 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > > >Hi Folks: > >Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > >To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > >I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words >that >do not reflect the events. > >Then see; >I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a >plane >and you said that I'm a thief. >You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes >aren't >approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer that >approved >them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed de wings, it >isn't >true. The wings are the same, the structural integrity is the same. >Then, >where is the robbery? What did I steal? >I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more >planes. >Is it robbery? >I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design >with >another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic XL >601. >Is it lack of ethics? >On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded >there >I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of >Drawings >and Invoice". > >Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate". >My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine settings. >Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk about >planes, of course, and drink some beer. > > >Roberto Brito. > >Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* "Pinheiro >Neto" will explain next week. >*Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil >"ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you > >=========== > > I'll reply Davidson's questions; > > > To Jeff Davidson; > > >Hi Jeff, > > Roberto, > > A couple questions if I may: > > Who is Air-Fox? >-- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves" > > Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300? >-- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller >with >reverse gear. It is > newness > > > Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas >yourself? >-- Exactly, it was myself and my employees. > > > Did you include roll-over protection? >-- Yes, I did. > > What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"? >-- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey >Davidson. It was just a joke. > > Nice looking seats! > > Thanks =85. > > Jeff Davidson > >============ > > Craig Payne; > > About bad translation; > >You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. >I'm sure I don't deserve it. > >============ >To Craig Payne > > > > Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of >the > blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc. > It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins >testing. >"His > would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture" > a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did >notice > > his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of > pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle. > > Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > wrote: >Hi Larry; >You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I >immediatly corrected it. >About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a >much >larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once you >are >constantly recriminating "copy cats". > >=========== >To Craig Payne; > > A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from the >top >skins > (which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. Did >you >notice > he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3? > The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable: > > "After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix >trip >of > changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find >that >it is > newness." > > -- Craig > >Craig; >I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), and >for >me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601. >Maybe I over did my job. > > >________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:21:18 PM PST US >From: "Zodie Rocket" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Sorry List I have sent my reply to Roberto directly, quite evidently he >does not understand that you cannot deviate from the designers plans on >major modifications and use another designer to fill in the blanks and >still Call it a Zodiac and advertise Chris Heintz=92s name. He believes >that including the plans still makes it a 601XL even though the >modifications were extensive. But he is willing to admit that he uses >Chris Heintz Designs for the basis for his new airplane. Now lets see >how honorable he is and if he builds Zodiac 601XL=92s as designed by >Chris >or continues to sell his new design stealing from Zodiac 601XL plans. >This really is a shame, I already know the answer, Chris believes that >everyone should have the chance to build a plane that is why he provides >the plans and Zenith offers builders support to plans builders. Chris >was quite upset at the pictures I showed him earlier this week of >Roberto=92s plane, but his comment was simply =93 I make it easy for >them to >sell against me=94 It is pretty sad when you think that he has to sell >his >product against several planes he has designed, but get small >modifications. I hope this one more copy of a Zodiac doesn=92t make the >company decide to make there next designs a kit only or worst a QBK >only. But it would make financial sense to not compete against your own >design. > >Do not archive > >Mark Townsend >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. >HYPERLINK >"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com >HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com > > >"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com >/Navigator?Zenith-List > > >"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com > > >"http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com > > >"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu >tion > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >-- >10/18/2006 > > >________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:26:34 PM PST US >From: "Southern Reflections" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberato, would you e-mail me some pict. of your plane? I"ve never seen >it.. By the way I have a set of plans with a good number that I'll be >glad to sell you at a ruduced price thanks . joe N101HD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:44 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > > > Hi Folks: > > Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > > To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > > I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter >words that do not reflect the events. > > Then see; > I "bought" and "paid for" a set of drawings (sn-6096) and I built a >plane and you said that I'm a thief. > You offended me. You do not know the changes that I did. The changes >aren't approved by Chris Heintz, but I have an aeronautical engineer >that approved them. But you made several "comments", you said I changed >de wings, it isn't true. The wings are the same, the structural >integrity is the same. Then, where is the robbery? What did I steal? > I intend to "buy" and "pay for" more set of drawings and build more >planes. Is it robbery? > I could have shown it at any Airshow and say that it was a new design >with another name, but I didn't do this. I've always said, it's a Zodaic >XL 601. Is it lack of ethics? > On my website it's very clear, that I do not build copies and I staded >there I can only help build a plane someone that has an original "Set of >Drawings and Invoice". > > Then folks, I'm not a "copy cat", a "pirate". > My plane will fly on October 31, Before this, I'll do all fine >settings. > Afterwards I'd would like to meet you all at Oshkosh-2007 and talk >about planes, of course, and drink some beer. > > > Roberto Brito. > > Ps: About 5052-H38 aluminun, my aeronautical enginner *Master* >"Pinheiro Neto" will explain next week. > *Pinheiro Neto is a Master in Aeronautical Science by ITA-Brazil > "ITA" for us the equivalent to "MIT" for you > > >=========== > > I'll reply Davidson's questions; > > > To Jeff Davidson; > > > Hi Jeff, > > Roberto, > > A couple questions if I may: > > Who is Air-Fox? > -- Airfox is my trade mark, I have a hangar named "AirFox Ultraleves" > > Is that a constant speed propeller hub on the 3300? > -- Mine is a Woodcomp SR 3000, variable pitch, three blade propeller >with reverse gear. It is > newness > > > Did you design the cabin and turtle deck areas >yourself? > -- Exactly, it was myself and my employees. > > Did you include roll-over protection? > -- Yes, I did. > > What does the RB mean in "ZODIAC XL RB"? > -- It means "R"oberto "B"rito, it could have been "JD" from Jeffrey >Davidson. It was just a joke. > > Nice looking seats! > > Thanks =85. > > Jeff Davidson > > >============ > > Craig Payne; > > About bad translation; > > You completely slaughtered the meaning of my website message. > I'm sure I don't deserve it. > > >============ > To Craig Payne > > > Roberto's 601 will undoubtedly be one of the fastest because of >the > blended canopy to tail, flush riveting, wing root fairings etc. > It'll be interesting to see his flight data when he begins >testing. "His > would be an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and >capture" > a much larger market. I think it's exceedingly well done. Did >notice > his front fork is on backwards though, because the center of > pivot should be like a caster, ahead of the axle. > > Larry McFarland - 6011HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > wrote: > > Hi Larry; > You've already mentioned the backward fork, on August - 2006 and I >immediatly corrected it. > About "... an interesting variation for Zenith to copy and capture a >much larger market...", I'm not quite confident I caught the idea, once >you are constantly recriminating "copy cats". > > >=========== > To Craig Payne; > > A philosophical question is if it is still a 601XL. Aside from >the top skins > (which are composite) those wing-tips are there for a reason. >Did you notice > he is not using pulled rivets and using 2024-T3? > The prop appears to be in-flight adjustable: > > "After this he is to place the engine, a Jabiru 3300, with helix >trip of > changeable step (Woodprop), e the reverse, that this way I find >that it is > newness." > > -- Craig > > Craig; > I could give another name, but I do have a serial numbers (sn-6096), >and for me it has always been a Zodiac XL 601. > Maybe I over did my job. > > >=========== > > >________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:37:44 PM PST US >From: "Graham Kirby" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Mark, >I dont see where Roberto says that he will be selling anything. - Mind >you, my Portuguese is pretty weak :-) >Graham Kirby >601HD > >do not archive > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie >Rocket >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:20 PM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > > >Sorry List I have sent my reply to Roberto directly, quite evidently he >does >not understand that you cannot deviate from the designers plans on major >modifications and use another designer to fill in the blanks and still >Call >it a Zodiac and advertise Chris Heintz's name. He believes that >including >the plans still makes it a 601XL even though the modifications were >extensive. But he is willing to admit that he uses Chris Heintz Designs >for >the basis for his new airplane. Now lets see how honorable he is and if >he >builds Zodiac 601XL's as designed by Chris or continues to sell his new >design stealing from Zodiac 601XL plans. >This really is a shame, I already know the answer, Chris believes that >everyone should have the chance to build a plane that is why he provides >the >plans and Zenith offers builders support to plans builders. Chris was >quite >upset at the pictures I showed him earlier this week of Roberto's plane, >but >his comment was simply " I make it easy for them to sell against me" It >is >pretty sad when you think that he has to sell his product against >several >planes he has designed, but get small modifications. I hope this one >more >copy of a Zodiac doesn't make the company decide to make there next >designs >a kit only or worst a QBK only. But it would make financial sense to not >compete against your own design. > >Do not archive > >Mark Townsend >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. >president@can-zacaviation.com >www.can-zacaviation.com > > >________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:39:28 PM PST US >From: Terry Phillips >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Whoa, Roberto > >I used no four-letter words. > >What I did say was: > >>"I agree that anyone building an experimental may make changes, at his or >>her own risk. But to make a commercial copy of a Chris Heintz design is >>dishonest and unethical. I hope that the Brazilians will not go forward >>with their copycat design. If they want to sell a kit, they should design >>one and sell it." > >My impression from your web site was that you intend to market your >modified 601 in Brazil. If that impression is incorrect, then, as I stated, >I have no problem with you making any changes whatever to the design and >flying the result at your own risk. > >However, if your intention is to sell plans, kits, or fully built planes of >your modified design, then I again stand by my original statement, that I >believe it is dishonest and unethical. And I hope you will change your >mind. I do not speak Portuguese-if I have misinterpreted your intentions, I >do apologize. > >I doubt I'll be able to make Oshkosh in '07, but maybe '08. If so, I would >love to view your plane and discuss your design over a couple of beers. > >Terry > > >At 09:44 PM 10/18/2006 -0200, you wrote: >>To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, >> >>I didn't understand your criticism. You used a lot of four-letter words >>that do not reflect the events. >> > >Terry Phillips >ttp44@rkymtn.net > >________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:45:36 PM PST US >From: "kevinbonds" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Roberto >I commend you on your beautiful plane. I think it is nicest Zodiac >modification I've ever seen. I understand that you have a serial number and >you are free to do anything to your plane you want, but I believe that your >modifications are extensive enough that your plane will need extensive >testing to ensure it is safe to offer to the general public. In general the >people on this list are experimenters, not entrepreneurs. Once you cross >that line you have a different set of responsibilities. If you have deviated >from Chris Heintz' drawings with out his personal approval (regardless of >whom you have retained in his place), and are calling it a 601XL, you are >implying that it is his design. It may not have been your intention but, it >appears that you are trying to use Chris Heintz' reputation, and the >reputation of his design, in order to sell your product. The concern is that >any potential buyer would mistake your highly modified, and therefore >untested/unproven design, with the reputation of the Chris Heintz approved >version. In my opinion, it is irresponsible to suggest this in any >way--explicitly or otherwise. I hope it is your intention to clear this >up-and not to mislead your customers. I'm just some guy on the internet, and >you may not care what I think, but you may want to consider whether others >feel the same way. > >Kevin Bonds >Nashville TN >601XL Plans building. >http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > >do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > _____ > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Ap. >Rodrigues de Brito >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:45 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Hi Folks: > >Thanks a lot for the compliments. > > >To Mark Towsends, Terry Philips and so on, > > >________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:56:53 PM PST US >From: ihab.awad@gmail.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > >On 10/18/06, Terry Phillips wrote: >> However, if your intention is to sell plans, kits, or fully built planes of >> your modified design, then ... > >Roberto requires that anyone building his modified design purchase a >set of plans from CH and show proof of purchase. So, what if Roberto >were to -- > >a. Provides paid builder support for constructing the aircraft; and/or -- > >b. Market prefabricated parts (up to or including a complete "kit") > >for the modified design. Would that be a breech of copyright or >contract? Would it be different if he were doing the same for the >unmodified design? > >My suspicion is that, unless he publishes a derivative work of the ** >plans **, he is clear of copyright violation. However, there may be >contractual issues that may attach to ownership of the plans that >prevent construction of a derivative design, or reverse engineering an >article constructed from the design, or whatever. Also, building a >business based on construction of modified plans may be considered _de >facto_ publication of a modified version of the plans. Does anyone >have the contract they signed with Zenith handy? What does it say or >not say? Any lawyers on this group know how these things go? > >Just some thoughts. Again, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal >advice. Regards, > >Ihab > >-- >Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:04:22 PM PST US >From: ihab.awad@gmail.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > >I should add to my previous comments -- > >What I really would like to know is what CH's legal and business >structure for copies or modifications of his designs really is. His >indignation -- however heartfelt -- does not count. He is a successful >aircraft designer and the general "form" of his designs are classic >"patterns" (especially the CH701/801 series) that are hard to avoid >once you've seen them. Sort of like the similarities between the Piper >Cub and any of a number of other aircraft -- I'm not sure which came >first, but there are bezillions of Cub-like thingeys buzzing around. > >Ihab > > >________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:06:04 PM PST US >From: "Jeff " >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: cowl or mount > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " > > >"Bill, >If you were using a Stratus Subaru, the adapted mounts provided by >Stratus would fit the 912 rotax mount. You could consider buying the >Adapters from Stratus and buy that 912 mount from Zenith." > >Or Bill you could get in touch with me if you are interested in a used 912 >mount I bought for myself. I went with a Jabiru. Jeff Davidson >Jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net > > >________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:36:31 PM PST US >From: Sigmo@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Yes but they don't call their "Cub like thingies" a piper cub using Pipers >name to sell the thingies. If it's a thingie it needs to be called a >thingie....... > >My 2 cents worth. >Mike Sigman >N7092N 601XL > >________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:24:29 PM PST US >From: Terry Turnquist >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A special Zodiac XL 601 > >Harmon Rocket > > do not archive > >ihab.awad@gmail.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com > >I should add to my previous comments -- > >What I really would like to know is what CH's legal and business >structure for copies or modifications of his designs really is. His >indignation -- however heartfelt -- does not count. He is a successful >aircraft designer and the general "form" of his designs are classic >"patterns" (especially the CH701/801 series) that are hard to avoid >once you've seen them. Sort of like the similarities between the Piper >Cub and any of a number of other aircraft -- I'm not sure which came >first, but there are bezillions of Cub-like thingeys buzzing around. > >Ihab > > > >--------------------------------- > >________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:50:38 PM PST US >From: NYTerminat@aol.com >Subject: Zenith-List: skis for 701 > >list, > >With winter coming up, does anybody have any plans to build skis for the >701? Does anyone know where I can purchase plans for the skis? I like the ones > >that utilize the tires and skis together. > >Bob Spudis >N701ZX/ 85hrs > >________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:21:40 PM PST US >From: "Craig Payne" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > >These are common in the food and restaurant industry. You see them on >walk-in refrigerators and warehouse doors. > >-- Craig > > _____ > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:41 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet plastic shop door > > >All- > Saw a great idea for a shop door, but can't find the materials anywhere. > > 6" overlapping flexible strips of 3/16" clear (Vinyl?) plastic that are >attached to the top frame and hang to the floor. You can walk right through, >see right through, but it seals tight enough to keep most of the heat in. >The one I saw was put together so long ago, nobody knew where the material >came from. > Any leads? Gotta have one!! > do not archive >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:05 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Shop door All- Got the answer from our Maintenance Manager at work. Link attached. In the "Big Book", hardware included- been a long day and haven't had a chance to look at the web listing. http://www.mcmaster.com/ Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:11 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs I'm perplexed. Looking at the plans (6T3) we're told to put 9 rivets in the top skin at 40 pitch on the outboard ribs. Then we're to go to 10 rivets at 40 pitch on the other four ribs. Two problems: 1) On the outboard ribs, this puts the last rivet beyond my elevator rib tip. Do I reduce the pitch or forget the last rivet? 2) On the other ribs, 10 rivets at 40 pitch extends out to 360mm on a skin that is only 345mm wide. Either I need to adjust my pitch to something less than 40mm, or stop at 8 to catch material on my ribs. Help. Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL Stabilizer complete/Working on the elevator ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Larry, I ran in to the same problem and solved it by knowing 40 pitch is the maximum pitch, you can always go for less pitch. Some of my 40 pitch are actually 35mm. What I did is marked the end rivets at the correct edge distance then set the fan to fill the void with the correct number of rivets. If it came out at 35mm, so be it. Have fun, -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69060#69060 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs Larry, my plans, 06/03, call for nine rivets across the top each rib, A4 Pitch 40 and eight rivets each rib on bottom skin. Terry Turnquist 601 XL Plans St. Peters, MO Larry Winger wrote: I'm perplexed. Looking at the plans (6T3) we're told to put 9 rivets in the top skin at 40 pitch on the outboard ribs. Then we're to go to 10 rivets at 40 pitch on the other four ribs. Two problems: 1) On the outboard ribs, this puts the last rivet beyond my elevator rib tip. Do I reduce the pitch or forget the last rivet? 2) On the other ribs, 10 rivets at 40 pitch extends out to 360mm on a skin that is only 345mm wide. Either I need to adjust my pitch to something less than 40mm, or stop at 8 to catch material on my ribs. Help. Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL Stabilizer complete/Working on the elevator --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:09 PM PST US From: "John Swartout" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 stick angle Wondering if any of you who have finished your 801 have determined how many degrees the torque tube rotates (left and right from top dead center) to apply the maximum flaperon deflection. That would be the same as stick angle from straight up. I realize it could vary slightly from one plane to another, but a ballpark figure would be appreciated. Thanks. John ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:11 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets in the 601XL elevator ribs Ron, That sounds like a workable solution. Unless I hear from anyone else on the list who has a convincing argument to the contrary, that will be my plan. Thanks, Larry On 10/19/06, Ron Lendon wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" > > Larry, > > I ran in to the same problem and solved it by knowing 40 pitch is the > maximum pitch, you can always go for less pitch. Some of my 40 pitch are > actually 35mm. > > What I did is marked the end rivets at the correct edge distance then set > the fan to fill the void with the correct number of rivets. If it came out > at 35mm, so be it. > > Have fun, > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69060#69060 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for 7/32" Repair Rivets From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Looking for a source for 7/32" repair rivets the complete number would be something like MS20470AD7-14 or AN470AD-7-14. I have talked to ACS and they don't stock em. Also searched the web but no luck yet. Any help here? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69067#69067 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:00 PM PST US From: "tjlhl" Subject: Zenith-List: "Electroless Nickel" plating on all of my 4130 and SS parts. I took all of the 601XL 4130 steel parts and all of the SS parts to a place called Chrome Wright Inc. in Lees Summit, Mo. and had them plated with a process called "Electroless Nickel". It has the look of brushed stainless. The steps, nose gear, yolk, ect. looks great. Please don't ask me about the process but instead call and talk to Steve Schmidt, the general manager there. The phone number is 816-525-5417. the email is chromeen@swbell.net. He's a airplane guy, and some other builders have taken their parts there. You can UPS them and he will plate and send them back to you. The price is quite reasonable. I wanted to pass this along in case some of you wanted to plate your steel parts. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Looking for 7/32" Repair Rivets From: "TxDave" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" Ron, Wicks stocks AD8-14 rivets if that helps. I talked to Nick Heintz about using these for a rivet hole I botched badly and he said these would be fine. He also said an AN-4 bolt would be perfectly acceptable. Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL working on wings www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69070#69070