Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:11 AM - Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. (Trainnut01@aol.com)
2. 06:12 AM - Re: Wing weight? (Edward Moody II)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. (Robin Bellach)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Inspection Plates (domed covers) (John M. Goodings)
6. 08:56 AM - Re: 801 Wing Root Skin (Carl Bertrand)
7. 08:59 AM - Clipped wing 601HD? (R.P.)
8. 09:54 AM - Re: Wing weight? (Herbert Heaton)
9. 10:12 AM - Re: Clipped wing 601HD? (George Swinford)
10. 10:28 AM - Re: Wing weight?--actual (Big Gee)
11. 11:59 AM - Re: Clipped wing 601HD? (LarryMcFarland)
12. 11:59 AM - 601 POH (Brian Briggerman)
13. 12:28 PM - Re: Clipped wing 601HD? (Mike Fothergill)
14. 12:43 PM - Re: CH200 flight manual (Jeff)
15. 12:57 PM - Re: CH200 flight manual (Clive Richards)
16. 01:51 PM - Re: Clipped wing 601HD? (R.P.)
17. 04:50 PM - Re: Wing weight? (Martin Pohl)
18. 06:17 PM - Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. (Lynn Dingfelder)
19. 08:06 PM - Thanks for all the wing weights! (Craig Payne)
20. 08:15 PM - Thanks for all the wing weights! (Craig Payne)
21. 08:17 PM - Re: 601 POH (Craig Payne)
22. 10:17 PM - Re: RAC stick wiring question (RayStL)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. |
I hope I am not adding to the confusion here. I am building a 601XL from
component kits. My wing kit came with the Volkswagen senders but had very
explicit instructions for bending and installing the senders on the inboard end
of
the fuel tanks. This is almost identical to the set up used on my RV. I'm
trying to understand if there is a reason for installing them on top of the
tank. I haven't cut the holes yet so I'm not in trouble yet.
Carroll Jernigan
Lenoir City TN
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
My wing cradles have web strapping like a sling for the nose to rest in so I
didn't worry about weighing them. Two of us carried them without any strain
at all.... we even had to wrangle them out through a 32" wide door onto an
exterior landing and down the stairs to ground level. They were built in a
workshop above my father's garage to make it convenient for him to join in
the fun. My guess is we were each carrying (SWAG method employed here) maybe
30 - 40 pounds? I'd be surprised if each wing weighed more than 80 pounds
(dry) but the ailerons and flaps were not on them yet so add that weight if
appicable in your case. everything else was on the wing including a bit of
extra skin at the inboard end because I haven't trimmed that area yet.
Hope that helps,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL/Jabiru/cabin area
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> I'm not worried about mine being too heavy. I'm just finishing my wing
> cradle in preparation for moving the wings to my hanger. I'm trying to see
> how many inches of foam I need along the nose to keep it from bottoming
> out.
> -- Craig
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft |
Co.
Hi Carroll,
My guess would be that putting the sender on top of the tank offers
just as much (little?) accuracy as mounting it on the end of the
tank. It gives you some room for the protruding parts in the empty
space over the tank near the spar. It also means the fuel will not
try very hard to escape via the sender cutout since most of it is
below the sender. As soon as there is a little fuel removed from the
tank there is no tendency at all for the fuel to escape via the sender cutout.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 06:10 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>I hope I am not adding to the confusion here. I am building a 601XL
>from component kits. My wing kit came with the Volkswagen senders
>but had very explicit instructions for bending and installing the
>senders on the inboard end of the fuel tanks. This is almost
>identical to the set up used on my RV. I'm trying to understand if
>there is a reason for installing them on top of the tank. I haven't
>cut the holes yet so I'm not in trouble yet.
>Carroll Jernigan
>Lenoir City TN
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. |
I put the VW senders in the top of my 4 tanks so that they would be far
more convenient to access. But since they protrude above the top skin
requiring fabrication of domed covers, if I had it to do over I would
seriously consider installation in the tank ends.
Robin in AR
N601ZV Zen-Vair
----- Original Message -----
From: Trainnut01@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith
Aircraft Co.
I hope I am not adding to the confusion here. I am building a 601XL
from component kits. My wing kit came with the Volkswagen senders but
had very explicit instructions for bending and installing the senders on
the inboard end of the fuel tanks. This is almost identical to the set
up used on my RV. I'm trying to understand if there is a reason for
installing them on top of the tank. I haven't cut the holes yet so I'm
not in trouble yet.
Carroll Jernigan
Lenoir City TN
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Inspection Plates (domed covers) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
We used the bottom of a glass jar (with a "hat brim" about 3/4 inches wide
made from aluminum, plastic, cardboard or whatever) as a male mold for our
fuel sender fibreglass cover. One can adjust the height, the cover has a
nice low flat profile, and one can find a jar of almost any diameter. We
covered the mold with parafin wax before putting on the fibreglass. We
put a slight curve in the hat brim, roughly to match the turtle deck over
the header tank, in our case. Later, we taped a piece of fine sandpaper
to the turtle deck, and sanded the hat brim to give a perfect fit to the
turtle deck curve. The final cover with a neoprene gasket was put on with
8 #4 SS sheet metal screws. It seems to work well, and looks good.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ CH601HD with R912S, Toronto, Waterloo, Ottawa
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Wing Root Skin |
I'm not aware if the one piece plans have changed for the 701/801 since
1994. When I built I devided my skins in two pieces. A small part that
wraps around the leading edge from the bottom spar cap to the top spar
cap, and a second part which is removable from the top spar cap to the
trailing edge.
I found this to be easier to build and convenient for inspections. I
also placed my fuel senders on the inboard side of the wing tanks so
they are easily accessable.
Carl
701/912/amphibs.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Clipped wing 601HD? |
I have ben flying my Zodiac 601HD for a couple of years now, and have
recently considered clipping the last 12-16 inches off the wingtips for
a little more top-end cruise speed.
I'm wondering if anyone has ever clipped the wings on the Zodiac HD, and
what the results were.
Thanks,
Rick Pitcher
CH601HD - N601ZR
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Herbert Heaton" <heatonhe36@msn.com>
Craig,
Mine came close to 70 lb. without ailerons or flaps.
Herb
>From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Wing weight?
>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:16:22 -0600
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Anyone have a guess what one XL wing weighs?
>
>-- Craig
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing 601HD? |
Rick:
You should expect that your best rate of climb would decrease, take-off
distance would increase, your best glide angle would get steeper, and
your stall speed would go up. Considering the overall dragginess of the
HD, the cruise speed increase might not be worth the loss in other
aspects of performance.
Reducing the span will require building a new wingtip structure.
Remembering what a pain that was for me, I know it will be quite a bit
of work. Why not consider the option that Chris has given us and just
retrofit the HDS wings?
My opinion, speaking as a retired aeronautical engineer who has taken
way too long to finish my own HD.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: R.P.
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Clipped wing 601HD?
I have ben flying my Zodiac 601HD for a couple of years now, and have
recently considered clipping the last 12-16 inches off the wingtips for
a little more top-end cruise speed.
I'm wondering if anyone has ever clipped the wings on the Zodiac HD,
and what the results were.
Thanks,
Rick Pitcher
CH601HD - N601ZR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
10/20/2006
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing weight?--actual |
In reguard to weight of the XL wings, Joe's guess was right on. I just w
eighed my wing to help to get an accurate number for you -------- The compl
eted wing without lights = 74 pounds. Completed aileron = 3 pounds.
Completed flap= 7 lbs.------------ Not painted--- did not include rod co
nnecting aileron to bellcrank. Stood on bathroom scales than subtracted bo
dy weight etc.------ Hope this helps.=0A=0AFritz-- XL--90/90-- Corvair=0A
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: xl <xl@prosody.org>=0ATo: zenith-
list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:02:33 AM=0ASubject: R
e: Zenith-List: Wing weight?=0A=0A=0A--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl
<xl@prosody.org>=0A=0A=0AMy guess: 75 pounds.=0AI could carry a wing around
myself with a clecoed handle.=0A=0AWild ass calculation (to make my guess
seem educated):=0Aempty weight of plane = 717 pounds.=0Aminus FWF ~200 po
unds=0Aminus main gear ~50 pounds=0Aleaves ~470 pounds.=0A=0AAssuming the f
uselage + tail weigh 2x the wings (312#):=0Aeach wing weighs 1/6 of 470 pou
nds or 78 pounds (2 wings=156#).=0A=0AAnyway the wings must be < 100 poun
ds.=0AI'm not willing to take a wing off + weigh it!=0A=0AJoe E=0AN633Z @ B
FI=0ACH601XL, 401 hours=0A=0Ado not archive - for entertainment purposes on
ly - might not be correct -=0Asomeone will weigh one or calculate the weigh
t from the plans and I don't=0Awant my inaccurate guess archived.=0A=0A=0AO
n Sat, 21 Oct 2006, Craig Payne wrote:=0A> --> Zenith-List message posted b
y: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>=0A> Anyone have a guess what one
=========================0A
========0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing 601HD? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Rick,
I remember someone building the wings a couple of feet shorter and the
airspeed gain was noticeable, not remarkable. All else seemed
to be in the comfort zone of the HDS. Landing speed increased, etc. As
a satisfied HDS builder, the taper wings do fly well. I've had to try
to keep up in climb with an HD and it couldn't be done. If I had
do-overs, I'd still fly HDS, but if I flew grass strips a lot, the HD
would easily be a best choice.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at 85 hours, almost done painting.
R.P. wrote:
> I have ben flying my Zodiac 601HD for a couple of years now, and have
> recently considered clipping the last 12-16 inches off the wingtips
> for a little more top-end cruise speed.
> I'm wondering if anyone has ever clipped the wings on the Zodiac HD,
> and what the results were.
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Pitcher
> CH601HD - N601ZR
>
>*
>
>*
>
Message 12
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Does anyone have a sourse for a POH for a 601XL? I would like to have
something I could edit for my airplane. I have an O-200 so it will be
different than than most. I have looked at the one on the Zenith web
site and I don't know how to edit it for my airplane.
Thanks!
Brian Briggerman
Fountain Hills, AZ
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing 601HD? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi Rick;
I considered that option at one time but coverted to the HDS wings
instead. A fairly easy conversion and much more speed.
Mike
CH-601HDS (was HD)
UHS Spinners
R.P. wrote:
> I have ben flying my Zodiac 601HD for a couple of years now, and have
> recently considered clipping the last 12-16 inches off the wingtips for
> a little more top-end cruise speed.
> I'm wondering if anyone has ever clipped the wings on the Zodiac HD, and
> what the results were.
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Pitcher
> CH601HD - N601ZR
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | CH200 flight manual |
Jef,
Congratulations on your accomplishment and perseverance! As a
still active 601 builder of more than 12 years now, I can appreciate what it
takes to keep at it for many years.
Jeff Davidson
do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jef Vervoort
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: CH200 flight manual
CH 200 build number 250 has become a flying aircraft after a build process
of more than 25 years, with long interruptions.
It is powered by a O 200 .
Where could we find a good example of a flight manual, checklist, test
flight program or similar documentation that would help us in taking good
care of the bird.
Thanks.
Jef Vervoort, Belgium; OO 77.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: CH200 flight manual |
Hi Jef
If you look at the www.pfa.org.uk Web site under
engineering you will find a link to the testing of Homebuilt Aircraft
manual from FAA for download in PDF format and also documents for flight
testing requirments for Permit to Fly renewals etc for UK aircraft.
Do not archive
Clive Richards
Fly Ray Lasniers G CBDG 601HD Continental 0 200 42 Hrs to date
----- Original Message -----
From: Jef Vervoort
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: CH200 flight manual
CH 200 build number 250 has become a flying aircraft after a build
process of more than 25 years, with long interruptions.
It is powered by a O 200 .
Where could we find a good example of a flight manual, checklist, test
flight program or similar documentation that would help us in taking
good care of the bird.
Thanks.
Jef Vervoort, Belgium; OO 77.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing 601HD? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: George Swinford
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Clipped wing 601HD?
>Rick:
>You should expect that your best rate of climb would decrease, take-off
>distance would increase, your best glide angle would get steeper, and your
>stall speed >would go up. Considering the overall dragginess of the HD,
>the cruise speed increase might not be worth the loss in other aspects of
>performance.
>Reducing the span will require building a new wingtip structure.
>Remembering what a pain that was for me, I know it will be quite a bit of
>work. Why not >consider the option that Chris has given us and just
>retrofit the HDS wings?
>My opinion, speaking as a retired aeronautical engineer who has taken way
>too long to finish my own HD.
>George
I talked to ZAC a few days ago about a couple of different ways to do the
clip. I can take off 12" without disturbing the main spar and outboard rib.
If I cut all the way back to the aileron I could get 16", but would have to
remove the last rib and trim the main spar as done on the HDS wingtips. A
12" clip will reduce the 130 square foot wings by ~10 square feet. 16" will
remove ~ 13 square feet.
As a retired aeroplane builder, I'm not too worried about building a new
wingtip structure, in fact I'm looking forward to it ;)
As a retired aeronautical engineer, could you run some numbers for me?
Using the ZAC website's numbers http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hd.html
The 130 square foot HD wing shows a stall speed of 44mph@1025# and
40mph@850# .
Could you extrapolate the stall speed at 1300# ? How about if the wing were
120 square feet instead of 130?
And the HDS specifications at http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html
.
The 98 square foot HDs tapered wing shows a stall speed of 54mph@1050# Can
you figure out how many square feet this planform would need to be to stall
at 50mph@1300# ? I guess I'm asking : If I were to build HDS panels but
extend them a foot or two, what would you expect the total length to be in
order to get enough square footage to stall at 50 mph?
Just asking hypotheticals here, of course.
I know enough to know that I don't know enough, and will proceed
cautiously... of course.
Thanks,
Rick Pitcher
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wing weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Hope that helps...
Wing weight distribution (in kg):
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69545#69545
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: INSPECTION PLATES - TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. |
I installed my senders in the end of the tanks as per
included instructions. Using a mirror through the filler opening, I
could see well enough to adjust the float to just clear the top and
bottom of the tank at each extreme of travel. Access through the bottom
inspection hole looks reasonable.
Lynn
Corry,
PA 601 XL / Corvair
Message 19
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| Subject: | Thanks for all the wing weights! |
The measured weights allowed me to reassure myself that three layers of 1
inch foam were plenty. I couldn't easily weigh my own wings as they were
hanging from the ceiling before I assembled my moving crew.
With the 3 inches of upholstery foam supporting 8 feet of the 12 foot span
each wing sank in about an inch. I'm glad the extra was there to absorb any
bumps on the 20 mile drive to the hanger. The wings now reside at my newly
rented hanger at 36U (Heber, UT). The fuselage will follow soon. Some
assembly required.
-- Craig
Message 20
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| Subject: | Thanks for all the wing weights! |
The measured weights allowed me to reassure myself that three layers of 1
inch foam were plenty. I couldn't easily weigh my own wings as they were
hanging from the ceiling before I assembled my moving crew.
With the 3 inches of upholstery foam supporting 8 feet of the 12 foot span
each wing sank in about an inch. I'm glad the extra was there to absorb any
bumps on the 20 mile drive to the hanger. The wings now reside at my newly
rented hanger at 36U (Heber, UT). The fuselage will follow soon. Some
assembly required.
-- Craig
Message 21
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There is one at www.ch601.org/resources/601OperatingManual-1.zip.
-- Craig
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: RAC stick wiring question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "RayStL" <ray.stlaurent@vsea.com>
Thanks for the ideas guys. I'll have the wire bundle exit the yoke, through a grommet,
just under the hinge to minimize the cable movement.
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69607#69607
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