Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:41 AM - Re: Loose ends of control cables. (Maarten Versteeg)
2. 07:52 AM - Re: Starting on instrument panel and looking for advice (Gig Giacona)
3. 08:47 AM - Re: Loose ends of control cables. (Ron Butterfield)
4. 09:51 AM - Re: Clipped wing 601HD? (George Swinford)
5. 09:53 AM - Anybody going to Corvair College #10 (Gig Giacona)
6. 10:24 AM - Wing Locker (Tim Juhl)
7. 10:50 AM - Jabiru Class (Tim Juhl)
8. 10:52 AM - Re: Wing Locker (Dave Johnson)
9. 10:57 AM - Re: Wing Locker (Michael Valentine)
10. 11:11 AM - Re: Wing Locker (Paul Mulwitz)
11. 12:02 PM - Re: Wing Locker (ALAN BEYER)
12. 12:31 PM - Re: Wing Locker (George Swinford)
13. 12:32 PM - Re: Wing Locker (LarryMcFarland)
14. 12:55 PM - Re: Jabiru Class (Charles Wacker)
15. 02:37 PM - Re: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 (Chris Lewis)
16. 02:46 PM - Re: Wing Locker (Trainnut01@aol.com)
17. 03:30 PM - 601HD accident (Tim Egan)
18. 03:30 PM - Re: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 (Matt Stecher)
19. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 (Craig Payne)
20. 03:48 PM - Re: Rivet spacing (Bill Naumuk)
21. 03:50 PM - Re: 601HD accident (Craig Payne)
22. 03:52 PM - Re: Jabiru Class (Juan Vega)
23. 04:00 PM - Re: 601HD accident (Randy Stout)
24. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Starting on instrument panel and looking for advice (Juan Vega)
25. 04:01 PM - Solid Riveting Problem (Debo Cox)
26. 04:04 PM - Re: 601HD accident (Juan Vega)
27. 04:06 PM - Re: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 (Phil Maxson)
28. 04:13 PM - 801 Wing tips (Dave Ruddiman)
29. 04:20 PM - Re: Solid Riveting Problem (Dave Ruddiman)
30. 04:23 PM - Re: 601HD accident (Dave Ruddiman)
31. 05:07 PM - Re: 801 Wing tips (Paul Mulwitz)
32. 06:17 PM - Re: Solid Riveting Problem (Christian Tremblay)
33. 06:30 PM - Re: 801 Wing tips (Dave Ruddiman)
34. 06:42 PM - Re: Solid Riveting Problem (Ron Lendon)
35. 06:46 PM - picture of the day + question (Carlos Sa)
36. 07:06 PM - Re: 601HD accident (Matthew Mucker)
37. 09:45 PM - HDS Weight and Balance form (Brandon Tucker)
38. 11:44 PM - Re: Re: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 (Michael Hilderbrand)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Loose ends of control cables. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
Hello,
I used to fly a hang glider with lots of cables, these where all
swage locked cables that were covered with transparent shrink tube.
Both to prevent bending of the cable ends during setup and breakdown
and to allow inspection. Inspection here is even more important as
the cables are essential to provide structural integrity and the
plane is disassembled after each flight.
I would try to find some of this shrink tube. It would be the best
of both worlds, you prevent the unraveling of the cable that might
get hooked somewhere and you still have the possibility of inspecting
the cable end (witness paint can be used and would be protected and
remain visible).
Regards,
Maarten
601xl, just started, tail done
> Time: 04:30:47 PM PST US
> From: <paulrod36@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Loose ends of control cables.
>
> Gig, I don't think the average or even not-so-average human being coul
> d exert enough force to slip a swaged cable out of its sleeve, particu
> larly sitting in a cockpit. A 1/8 cable has a breaking point around 6
> or 7 hundred pounds, if I recall correctly, and even an aluminum turnb
> uckle from Home Depot is good for 425 pounds. In order to develop that
> kind of force on a control surface, you'd have to achieve a speed tha
> t would have removed your wings long earlier. (somewhat larger problem
> ). Slap a daub of witness paint on it just to keep the DAR happy, and
> relax. Frankly, I think the most likely control failure would be rip
> ping the upper arm off the elevator, and even that is unlikely, since
> it's held on by several "holds 235-pounds in tension" rivets, and the
> 040 rear spar strap.=0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A601XL/Corvair
--
Maarten Versteeg Southwest Research Institute
Phone: (210)522-5029 P.O. Drawer 28510
Fax: (210)522-5499 San Antonio, TX 78228-0510
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starting on instrument panel and looking for advice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
The limited space is exactly why I suggested the Dynon. Stop by my website and
click the cockpit link. Though I haven't started the panel building process yet
there are a couple of dummy panels there.
phd1993 wrote:
> Gig, I ordered the Rotax 912S with the factory installed vacuum pump. I have
priced them out and am still "swallowing hard". Vast majority of costs are for
the NAV/COM and Transponder both of which are really needed since I will be
in-and-out of class "D" airspace (OJC and IXD) and within the mode "C" vail around
MCI.
>
> Major problem will undoubtedly revolve around just where am I going to put all
the instruments. The reality of limited space may well lead me to drop one
or more of my desired instruments.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sam Hutcheson
> CH701 - N6412Z
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69883#69883
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Loose ends of control cables. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Butterfield" <ron.butterfield@gmail.com>
On 10/23/06, Jean-Paul Roy <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> John, I think the idea of using heat shrink tubing is great. I've seen some
> transparent ones but can't remember where. It's a company selling electrical
> goods.
Here's one:
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=708-4327&SEARCH=&MPN=FIT350+3%2F16+6%22&DESC=FIT350+3%2F16+6%22&R=708%2D4327&sid=453D57805AA8E17F
also
http://tinyurl.com/y9w2tn
--
Regards,
RonB
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing 601HD? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Rick:
I'm having trouble reaching you off-list. If you are still interested in
some clipped-wing numbers, contact me off-list.
George
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Clipped wing 601HD?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R.P." <zodie@adelphia.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: George Swinford
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Clipped wing 601HD?
>
>
> >Rick:
>
> >You should expect that your best rate of climb would decrease, take-off
> >distance would increase, your best glide angle would get steeper, and
your
> >stall speed >would go up. Considering the overall dragginess of the HD,
> >the cruise speed increase might not be worth the loss in other aspects of
> >performance.
>
> >Reducing the span will require building a new wingtip structure.
> >Remembering what a pain that was for me, I know it will be quite a bit of
> >work. Why not >consider the option that Chris has given us and just
> >retrofit the HDS wings?
>
> >My opinion, speaking as a retired aeronautical engineer who has taken way
> >too long to finish my own HD.
>
> >George
>
> I talked to ZAC a few days ago about a couple of different ways to do the
> clip. I can take off 12" without disturbing the main spar and outboard
rib.
> If I cut all the way back to the aileron I could get 16", but would have
to
> remove the last rib and trim the main spar as done on the HDS wingtips. A
> 12" clip will reduce the 130 square foot wings by ~10 square feet. 16"
will
> remove ~ 13 square feet.
>
> As a retired aeroplane builder, I'm not too worried about building a new
> wingtip structure, in fact I'm looking forward to it ;)
> As a retired aeronautical engineer, could you run some numbers for me?
>
> Using the ZAC website's numbers
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hd.html
> The 130 square foot HD wing shows a stall speed of 44mph@1025# and
> 40mph@850# .
> Could you extrapolate the stall speed at 1300# ? How about if the wing
were
> 120 square feet instead of 130?
>
> And the HDS specifications at
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html
> .
> The 98 square foot HDs tapered wing shows a stall speed of 54mph@1050#
Can
> you figure out how many square feet this planform would need to be to
stall
> at 50mph@1300# ? I guess I'm asking : If I were to build HDS panels but
> extend them a foot or two, what would you expect the total length to be in
> order to get enough square footage to stall at 50 mph?
>
> Just asking hypotheticals here, of course.
> I know enough to know that I don't know enough, and will proceed
> cautiously... of course.
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Pitcher
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Anybody going to Corvair College #10 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
William Wynne is having Corvair College #10 the weekend of the 11/11. Anybody from
here going to go. I've already made my hotel reservation.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69919#69919
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Guys,
I'm at the point where I'm preparing to install a wing locker in the right wing.
The info in the drawing is a little sparse and of course there is no pictorial
guide.
I'd appreciate any advice from others who have done the install but in particular
I would like to know about the dzus fasteners. Here is my question. It looks
to me like the springs are meant to be held in place by A4 rivets. Did you
dimple the 0.025 dzus strip and countersink the rivets? Also, since the dzus
fasteners look like they'll just be flopping loose in their holes did you come
up with any way of securing them?
Thanks!
Tim Juhl
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69925#69925
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I just returned from three days in Shelbyville, TN attending a class on installing
a Jabiru 3300 in a Zodiac XL. Pete and Mark were great hosts and I found
the class to be useful and enjoyed the chance to meet other XL builders.
I must say that if anything I am now even more impressed by the Jabiru engine,
especially with the Bing carburetor and it's economizer kit. The quality of the
firewall forward kit is excellent and the cowlings well-designed and well made.
Now all I have to do is get the rest of the airplane done so I can hang my engine
on it!
Tim
Do not archive
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69931#69931
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
The Dzus's can be held in with 'snap rings' that are like circlips that fit
in the groove in the fastner.
ACS do them in several sizes, Part Nos. are SR3SS to SR7SS.
I can't remember what size the ones for the wing lockers are.
Dave Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Locker
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>
> Guys,
> I'm at the point where I'm preparing to install a wing locker in the right
> wing. The info in the drawing is a little sparse and of course there is
> no pictorial guide.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice from others who have done the install but in
> particular I would like to know about the dzus fasteners. Here is my
> question. It looks to me like the springs are meant to be held in place
> by A4 rivets. Did you dimple the 0.025 dzus strip and countersink the
> rivets? Also, since the dzus fasteners look like they'll just be flopping
> loose in their holes did you come up with any way of securing them?
>
> Thanks!
> Tim Juhl
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69925#69925
>
>
>
Message 9
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I just did this last week. I dimpled and then countersunk the rivets as
much as possible. I know the material is too thin to do a proper
countersink job, but I figured that with the angle of the dimpling I was not
taking too much material. BUT, I then filed the back side of the dimple
down a fair bit so that it was smooth - though not flush in back. End
result was a very close to flush rivet (using the flat head, of course).
In terms of the pieces, I have just left them hanging for now. I made the
holes small so only a couple want to fall out on their own. All I can say
is that Dzus fasteners are an extremely crappy solution to securing the
lid! I would redo it in a heartbeat if someone had a better fastening
system. They are a real pain to release (some worse than others depending
on alignment) and they certainly don't make the lockers a convenient storage
place.
Also, another local builder - George May - used 10 (3 on sides and four in
back) instead of the recommended 6 and his locker lid holds down much better
than mine. 6 definitely doesn't cut it if you want the lid to stay down
along the edges.
Two suggestions: first, be careful on the fasteners in the corners that you
don't drill your large hole too close to the edge! One of my edge springs
was partially blocked by the back panel/L angle on rib and I had to move it
forward; second (also from George May), you might want to make an inspection
hole in the back panel for wires/tubes/cables/vacuums/etc.
Michael in NH
On 10/24/06, Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>
> Guys,
> I'm at the point where I'm preparing to install a wing locker in the right
> wing. The info in the drawing is a little sparse and of course there is no
> pictorial guide.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice from others who have done the install but in
> particular I would like to know about the dzus fasteners. Here is my
> question. It looks to me like the springs are meant to be held in place by
> A4 rivets. Did you dimple the 0.025 dzus strip and countersink the
> rivets? Also, since the dzus fasteners look like they'll just be flopping
> loose in their holes did you come up with any way of securing them?
>
> Thanks!
> Tim Juhl
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69925#69925
>
>
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Tim,
I chose to use the same technique to attach the springs as used on
nut plates. This means counter-sinking the metal strip and using
small (soft) solid rivets to hold the springs in place. I felt soft
rivets were justified since they don't take any load but just hold
the spring in place when the baggage door is opened.
The Dzus "Screws" have matching spring clips that hold them in
place. You can get them from Aircraft Spruce.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:23 AM 10/24/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>
>Guys,
>I'm at the point where I'm preparing to install a wing locker in the
>right wing. The info in the drawing is a little sparse and of
>course there is no pictorial guide.
>
>I'd appreciate any advice from others who have done the install but
>in particular I would like to know about the dzus fasteners. Here
>is my question. It looks to me like the springs are meant to be
>held in place by A4 rivets. Did you dimple the 0.025 dzus strip and
>countersink the rivets? Also, since the dzus fasteners look like
>they'll just be flopping loose in their holes did you come up with
>any way of securing them?
>
>Thanks!
>Tim Juhl
>
>---
Message 11
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Tim,
I don't know what the plans call for now, but some food for thought. I have an
HDS w/wing lockers. At the time I did mine there was one "L" angle called for
in the middle of the door. I had to add three more. One on each side and one
at the back because the door would lift a lot in flight. I talked to a guy
with an HD and he has one angle in the middle with no lift. I made my holes a
little larger than standard for the Dzus fastener for easyer alighnment. In
doing so the Dzus springs would slip through the holes. In place of the springs
I used "O" rings and they work great. You will love the extra space the wing
lockers give you. I flew to SnF this year with the lockers and the plane full
of stuff. If you would like some pictures let me know.
Al from Oshkosh
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 12:23:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Locker
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Guys,
I'm at the point where I'm preparing to install a wing locker in the right wing.
The info in the drawing is a little sparse and of course there is no pictorial
guide.
I'd appreciate any advice from others who have done the install but in particular
I would like to know about the dzus fasteners. Here is my question. It looks
to me like the springs are meant to be held in place by A4 rivets. Did you
dimple the 0.025 dzus strip and countersink the rivets? Also, since the dzus
fasteners look like they'll just be flopping loose in their holes did you come
up with any way of securing them?
Thanks!
Tim Juhl
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69925#69925
Message 12
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In my experience Camlock fasteners are an improvement on Dzus fasteners.
They are a bit more complicated and more expensive. That said, I have
stuck with Dzus fasteners on my not-yet completed 601HD.
George
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Valentine
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Locker
I just did this last week. I dimpled and then countersunk the rivets
as much as possible. I know the material is too thin to do a proper
countersink job, but I figured that with the angle of the dimpling I was
not taking too much material. BUT, I then filed the back side of the
dimple down a fair bit so that it was smooth - though not flush in back.
End result was a very close to flush rivet (using the flat head, of
course).
In terms of the pieces, I have just left them hanging for now. I made
the holes small so only a couple want to fall out on their own. All I
can say is that Dzus fasteners are an extremely crappy solution to
securing the lid! I would redo it in a heartbeat if someone had a
better fastening system. They are a real pain to release (some worse
than others depending on alignment) and they certainly don't make the
lockers a convenient storage place.
Also, another local builder - George May - used 10 (3 on sides and
four in back) instead of the recommended 6 and his locker lid holds down
much better than mine. 6 definitely doesn't cut it if you want the lid
to stay down along the edges.
Two suggestions: first, be careful on the fasteners in the corners
that you don't drill your large hole too close to the edge! One of my
edge springs was partially blocked by the back panel/L angle on rib and
I had to move it forward; second (also from George May), you might want
to make an inspection hole in the back panel for
wires/tubes/cables/vacuums/etc.
Michael in NH
On 10/24/06, Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Guys,
I'm at the point where I'm preparing to install a wing locker in the
right wing. The info in the drawing is a little sparse and of course
there is no pictorial guide.
I'd appreciate any advice from others who have done the install but
in particular I would like to know about the dzus fasteners. Here is my
question. It looks to me like the springs are meant to be held in place
by A4 rivets. Did you dimple the 0.025 dzus strip and countersink the
rivets? Also, since the dzus fasteners look like they'll just be
flopping loose in their holes did you come up with any way of securing
them?
Thanks!
Tim Juhl
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69925#69925
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
10/24/2006
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Tim,
The springs can be installed on A4 rivets. The holes for the rivets
should be dimpled and the A4s pulled with the flat ended anvil.
Dzus fasteners are most conveniently held in place by a plastic washer
that is pushed over the end to the recess under the head. This traps the
Dzus on the sheet metal in a way that is reversible when it's time to
replace a part or paint.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/Dzustools.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/Dzusdimples.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/Dzusspring.gif
Getting the right size Dzus and spring for the thickness is sometimes
the hardest part.
It's a good idea to dimple radius the hole that the Dzus goes through as
well. Study the dimples and tools I used and prepare
a sample Dzus installation before you start modifying the actual parts.
When you're comfortable with the sample, then go ahead.
Springs can be rebent to achieve the grip needed so long as you don't
change the hole to hole distance.
I used Dzus fasteners on the cowl, luggage compartment, and battery
charging access cover.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Tim Juhl wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>
>Guys,
>I'm at the point where I'm preparing to install a wing locker in the right wing.
The info in the drawing is a little sparse and of course there is no pictorial
guide.
>
>I'd appreciate any advice from others who have done the install but in particular
I would like to know about the dzus fasteners. Here is my question. It looks
to me like the springs are meant to be held in place by A4 rivets. Did you
dimple the 0.025 dzus strip and countersink the rivets? Also, since the dzus
fasteners look like they'll just be flopping loose in their holes did you come
up with any way of securing them?
>
>Thanks!
>Tim Juhl
>
>--------
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Working on wings
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Wacker" <ccwacker@hotmail.com>
I echo Tim, the class was great. The one thing that I always enjoy about
these get togethers is the people. I was pleased to see two guys that were
at the rudder class at Zenith in March.
Chuck Wacker, N601CW
Quick Build, Wings done, tail feathers done, ready to hang engine
>From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru Class
>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:49:36 -0700
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>
>I just returned from three days in Shelbyville, TN attending a class on
>installing a Jabiru 3300 in a Zodiac XL. Pete and Mark were great hosts
>and I found the class to be useful and enjoyed the chance to meet other XL
>builders.
>
>I must say that if anything I am now even more impressed by the Jabiru
>engine, especially with the Bing carburetor and it's economizer kit. The
>quality of the firewall forward kit is excellent and the cowlings
>well-designed and well made.
>
>Now all I have to do is get the rest of the airplane done so I can hang my
>engine on it!
>
>Tim
>Do not archive
>
>--------
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69931#69931
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis@earthlink.net>
I wish. Florida is a lo-o-ong way from Seattle. I went to Corvair Day at the Zenith
Factory this spring and it was a pleaseure to meet William, Grace and the
rest of the gang in person.
Enjoy!
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69982#69982
Message 16
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Michael
I used Camlock fasteners on mine. I had to make new doors but the original
fasteners were, as you say, "crappy." The Camlocks look good and work
wonderfully. They have a retaining ring that keeps them in place when the locker
is
open also. Got them from ACS.
Carroll Jernigan
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Egan" <eedetail@qwest.net>
Built by David Taylor, registered to
Donald E Copeland on 9-27-2006.
Any information besides this?
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 143DT Make/Model: EXP Description: ZODIAC 601HD EXP
Date: 10/21/2006 Time: 2130
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed
LOCATION
City: SAN ANTONIO State: TX Country: US
DESCRIPTION
ACFT ON TAKEOFF, ENGINE FAILED AND CRASHED INTO A FIELD, 5 MILES SOUTH OF
SAN GERONIMO AIRPARK, SAN ANTONIO, TX
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: 0610212053Z 23007KT 10SM FEW035 28/19 A2983
OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Take-off Operation: OTHER
Departed: SAN ANTONIO, TX Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: SAN ANTONIO, TX Flt Plan: Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:
FAA FSDO: SAN ANTONIO, TX (SW17) Entry date: 10/23/2006
Message 18
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| Subject: | RE: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Stecher" <mrcc1234@sbcglobal.net>
Not this one, but maybe the next.
After a few conversations with William I have decided to wait until I have
my engine ready to be assembled before I have him and his gang take a look
at it. He also mentioned that most folks are able to get one rebuilt by
only following his manual.
Have fun and I look forward to seeing how it went on his web site. He is
trying out a new format which he is hoping will be more efficient.
Matt
601XL & Corvair Tail
>William Wynne is having Corvair College #10 the weekend of the 11/11.
>Anybody from here going to go. I've already made my hotel reservation.
Message 19
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| Subject: | RE: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>> (William) also mentioned that most folks are able to get one rebuilt by
only following his manual
Buy the videos too. There are procedures and techniques that I only felt
comfortable doing after I saw them on video.
-- Craig
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet spacing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Ahh- FINALLY, someone acknowledges the true father of homebuilding! In
aviation, it's known as "Speed Tape". For groundbounds, the "Handyman's
secret weapon".
If you still have no idea what we're all talking about, you'll just have
to bite the bullet and watch the educational channel.
DONT look at me like I just told you to eat your Rutabagas! (Broccoli is
actually one of the most popular vegetables) Check your local listings.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Larson" <blarson@meridianhouse.com>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet spacing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad Larson <blarson@meridianhouse.com>
>
> He's probably* *Old Man Sedgwick...
>
> For those of you who have no idea what we're talking about:
> www.redgreen.com
>
> Brad Larson
> Card Carrying Possum Lodge Member
> 701CE (no duct tape.... yet)
>
>
> do not archive
>
> Jim Hoak wrote:
>> Mark,
>> You are one fuuny guy! Reminds me of the Red Green Show.
>> I really enjoyed that.
>> Jim Hoak
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Zodie Rocket <mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 20, 2006 5:28 PM
>> *Subject:* RE: Zenith-List: Rivet spacing
>>
>> My god that hurts my head and I didnt even finish reading it all.
>> Cant afford a rivet fan spacing tool? Go into the house, bottom
>> drawer of your dresser and yank out those track pants that you
>> never wear any more. Cut a hole in seam and yank out elastic waist
>> band. Now carefully mark lines every ten millimeters. Go out to
>> workshop and count how may rivets you need say 9 now count to 9 on
>> the elastic and place first line on first rivet location. STRETCH
>> waistband so that line #9 is where it is supposed to be. Now you
>> have equal distance for rest of rivets. If you cant clamp
>> waistband down or cleco it in place then set sharpie between
>> teeth. After your all done grab some duct tape and safety wire and
>> you can repair your track pants. Elastic cannot be replaced into
>> the pants as it just became to handy in the shop. J Put on pants
>> with safety wire as suspenders and grab a coffee. Next comes the
>> bad part! With pants on and coffee in hand call wife out to the
>> workshop to show her just how much of a genius her husband is, If
>> she is anything like mine she will disappear into the house
>> shaking her head vigorously and muttering something about senile
>> old fool or something to that effect !
>>
>>
>> Mark Townsend
>>
>> Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
>>
>> president@can-zacaviation.com <mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com>
>>
>> www.can-zacaviation.com <http://www.can-zacaviation.com/>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
This was posted by a witness (Oscar Zuniga) on the Corvair list:
<quote>
No, this one wasn't a Corvair but I witnessed it. A very nice Zenith with a
Rotax 912 went down at San Geronimo yesterday. Everybody walked away, no
fire, but substantial damage. I heard the airplane taking off to the south,
looked out of the hangar to watch the takeoff (can't resist watching),
noticed he wasn't climbing out as smartly as Randy's ZenVair usually does,
his climb seemed to go flat just about the time the engine sounded like it
went to half throttle just about over the numbers at the south (upwind) end
of the field. Never revved any higher, the airplane went level and then
started mushing, power dropped even more, and I watched in horror as it
began to descend and start a slow turn to the east (away from the house
that's out that way). Down, down, down out of sight and into the brush...
then a loud crash and crunch and there were a bunch of us running over there
to see what happened.
My first thought: "no smoke, no fire. That's good". When we got to the
scene, the pilot and his passenger, a lady, were standing well clear of the
crash site looking to see if a fire would break out. Pilot had hurt his
left side ribcage on the side of the cockpit as it slewed in on the ground,
but other than that they both seemed OK.
He had touched down on the mains in a cleared field, rolled and bounced it
through a barbed-wire fence and three steel T-posts that started the slowing
process, then into brush about six or eight feet high that very quickly
stopped the plane. Beautiful 3-blade wooden prop lost two blades, left wing
and main gear of the airplane took the brunt of the hit, based on what I saw
it's a tossup as to whether it will be rebuildable or not. Nobody wanted to
touch anything until the NTSB checked it out. Pilot did a beautiful job of
maintaining airspeed above stall even in the gentle turn, steering it away
from populated areas, and putting it down level. ELT did not go off.
<end quote>
-- Craig
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Chuck,
what is the econizer kit? is that an add on to the bing carb? I typ[ically fly
5 to 8000 feet here in Fla, due to heat.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Wacker <ccwacker@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Oct 24, 2006 3:54 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru Class
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Wacker" <ccwacker@hotmail.com>
>
>I echo Tim, the class was great. The one thing that I always enjoy about
>these get togethers is the people. I was pleased to see two guys that were
>at the rudder class at Zenith in March.
>
>Chuck Wacker, N601CW
>Quick Build, Wings done, tail feathers done, ready to hang engine
>
>
>>From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru Class
>>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:49:36 -0700
>>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>>
>>I just returned from three days in Shelbyville, TN attending a class on
>>installing a Jabiru 3300 in a Zodiac XL. Pete and Mark were great hosts
>>and I found the class to be useful and enjoyed the chance to meet other XL
>>builders.
>>
>>I must say that if anything I am now even more impressed by the Jabiru
>>engine, especially with the Bing carburetor and it's economizer kit. The
>>quality of the firewall forward kit is excellent and the cowlings
>>well-designed and well made.
>>
>>Now all I have to do is get the rest of the airplane done so I can hang my
>>engine on it!
>>
>>Tim
>>Do not archive
>>
>>--------
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>______________
>>CFII
>>Champ L16A flying
>>Zodiac XL - Working on wings
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69931#69931
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
>
>
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
It happened at San Geronimo Airpark 8T8. All we know at this point is that
the engine quit shortly after liftoff and went down in some brush just off
the field. As far as I know, the aircraft still hasn't been recovered. My
hangar mate, Oscar Zuniga, saw it. Here's his account:
>>>A very nice Zenith with a Rotax 912 went down at San Geronimo yesterday.
Everybody walked away, no
fire, but substantial damage. I heard the airplane taking off to the
south, looked out of the hangar to watch the takeoff (can't resist
watching), noticed he wasn't climbing out as smartly as Randy's ZenVair
usually does, his climb seemed to go flat just about the time the engine
sounded like it went to half throttle just about over the numbers at the
south (upwind) end of the field. Never revved any higher, the airplane
went level and then started mushing, power dropped even more, and I watched
in horror as it began to descend and start a slow turn to the east (away
from the house that's out that way). Down, down, down out of sight and
into the brush...
then a loud crash and crunch and there were a bunch of us running over
there to see what happened.
My first thought: "no smoke, no fire. That's good". When we got to the
scene, the pilot and his passenger, a lady, were standing well clear of the
crash site looking to see if a fire would break out. Pilot had hurt his
left side ribcage on the side of the cockpit as it slewed in on the ground,
but other than that they both seemed OK.
He had touched down on the mains in a cleared field, rolled and bounced it
through a barbed-wire fence and three steel T-posts that started the
slowing process, then into brush about six or eight feet high that very
quickly stopped the plane. Beautiful 3-blade wooden prop lost two blades,
left wing and main gear of the airplane took the brunt of the hit, based on
what I saw it's a tossup as to whether it will be rebuildable or not.
Nobody wanted to touch anything until the NTSB checked it out. Pilot did a
beautiful job of
maintaining airspeed above stall even in the gentle turn, steering it away
from populated areas, and putting it down level. ELT did not go off.
Had to be fuel problems. Had to be, but I'm just guessing.<<<
Randy Stout
San Antonio, TX
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> [Original Message]
> From: Tim Egan <eedetail@qwest.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/24/2006 5:38:22 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD accident
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Egan" <eedetail@qwest.net>
>
> Built by David Taylor, registered to
> Donald E Copeland on 9-27-2006.
>
> Any information besides this?
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 143DT Make/Model: EXP Description: ZODIAC 601HD EXP
> Date: 10/21/2006 Time: 2130
>
> Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Destroyed
>
> LOCATION
> City: SAN ANTONIO State: TX Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT ON TAKEOFF, ENGINE FAILED AND CRASHED INTO A FIELD, 5 MILES SOUTH
OF
> SAN GERONIMO AIRPARK, SAN ANTONIO, TX
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
> # Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
>
> WEATHER: 0610212053Z 23007KT 10SM FEW035 28/19 A2983
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Pleasure Phase: Take-off Operation: OTHER
>
> Departed: SAN ANTONIO, TX Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> Destination: SAN ANTONIO, TX Flt Plan: Wx
Briefing:
> Last Radio Cont:
> Last Clearance:
>
> FAA FSDO: SAN ANTONIO, TX (SW17) Entry date: 10/23/2006
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Starting on instrument panel and looking for advice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sam,
check the Becker radio and transpnder combo, they are each 2 1/2 round guage size,
and are bullet proof german engineering. They were historcally designed for
gliders and work great in crowded panels. For the combo you are looking at
$3030.00 plus uncle sam's cut.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>Sent: Oct 24, 2006 10:51 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Starting on instrument panel and looking for advice
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
>The limited space is exactly why I suggested the Dynon. Stop by my website and
click the cockpit link. Though I haven't started the panel building process yet
there are a couple of dummy panels there.
>
>
>phd1993 wrote:
>> Gig, I ordered the Rotax 912S with the factory installed vacuum pump. I have
priced them out and am still "swallowing hard". Vast majority of costs are
for the NAV/COM and Transponder both of which are really needed since I will be
in-and-out of class "D" airspace (OJC and IXD) and within the mode "C" vail
around MCI.
>>
>> Major problem will undoubtedly revolve around just where am I going to put all
the instruments. The reality of limited space may well lead me to drop one
or more of my desired instruments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sam Hutcheson
>> CH701 - N6412Z
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69883#69883
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Solid Riveting Problem |
Hi guys,
I'm working on the solid riveting of my wing spars, and am having a strange thing
happen while driving the smaller -5 rivets. The plans call for the factory
rivet head to rest on the spar web, so the rivet goes through the web, through
the spar cap, and through the spar cap angle - that's where you're supposed
to drive the shop head.
I've driven all of the -6 rivets and they came out fine, but whenever I drive
a shop head on the -5 rivets, the spar cap angle lifts slightly (see attached
pic). I'm squeezing the parts together as I drive the rivet so there's no space
in between them. I've only driven a couple of these smaller guys, but it seems
to be happening with every rivet. In some places it's lifted more than the
picture shows. I'm stumped.
Anybody seen this?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair
---------------------------------
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Thank God they are OK, glad to see it was well built per the designs. That is
the second crash I have heard of engine problems and the Zenith design allowed
the pilot to walk away.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Oct 24, 2006 6:49 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD accident
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>This was posted by a witness (Oscar Zuniga) on the Corvair list:
>
><quote>
>No, this one wasn't a Corvair but I witnessed it. A very nice Zenith with a
>Rotax 912 went down at San Geronimo yesterday. Everybody walked away, no
>fire, but substantial damage. I heard the airplane taking off to the south,
>looked out of the hangar to watch the takeoff (can't resist watching),
>noticed he wasn't climbing out as smartly as Randy's ZenVair usually does,
>his climb seemed to go flat just about the time the engine sounded like it
>went to half throttle just about over the numbers at the south (upwind) end
>of the field. Never revved any higher, the airplane went level and then
>started mushing, power dropped even more, and I watched in horror as it
>began to descend and start a slow turn to the east (away from the house
>that's out that way). Down, down, down out of sight and into the brush...
>then a loud crash and crunch and there were a bunch of us running over there
>to see what happened.
>
>My first thought: "no smoke, no fire. That's good". When we got to the
>scene, the pilot and his passenger, a lady, were standing well clear of the
>crash site looking to see if a fire would break out. Pilot had hurt his
>left side ribcage on the side of the cockpit as it slewed in on the ground,
>but other than that they both seemed OK.
>
>He had touched down on the mains in a cleared field, rolled and bounced it
>through a barbed-wire fence and three steel T-posts that started the slowing
>process, then into brush about six or eight feet high that very quickly
>stopped the plane. Beautiful 3-blade wooden prop lost two blades, left wing
>and main gear of the airplane took the brunt of the hit, based on what I saw
>it's a tossup as to whether it will be rebuildable or not. Nobody wanted to
>touch anything until the NTSB checked it out. Pilot did a beautiful job of
>maintaining airspeed above stall even in the gentle turn, steering it away
>from populated areas, and putting it down level. ELT did not go off.
><end quote>
>
>-- Craig
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Anybody going to Corvair College #10 |
If the weather is OK I'll be flying my plane down. I've been in their hang
ar many times. It is a BLAST. The best things I've learned, and the most
fun I've had during my project took place in William's hangar.Phil Maxson60
1XL/CorvairNorthwest New Jersey
> Subject: Zenith-List: Anybody going to Corvair College #10> From: wr.giac
ona@cox.net> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:52:48 -0700> To: zenith-list@matroni
cs.com> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.
net>> > William Wynne is having Corvair College #10 the weekend of the 11/1
1. Anybody from here going to go. I've already made my hotel reservation.>
> --------> W.R. "Gig" Giacona> 601XL Under Construction> See my
progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR> > > > > Read this topic online here:
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69919#69919> > > > > > >
========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces
Message 28
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|
Dear 801 wing tip makers,
Someone tell me it's not just me. I've been working on the right wing
tip for the last couple of evenings. I can't believe how this thing is
supposed to work. The front fiberglass part fits OK? I've drilled the
"L" metal and clecoed it to the top skin. So, it looks like the side and
top come together with a gap between them. Sort of. I haven't drilled
any thing else yet. I don't know how to make it fit better. I'm not sure
it can be done. I even thought of covering the parts up and overlaying
them with fiberglass and making a complete tip that way. I probably
won't. I like building, but I don't want to die before I get the thing
into the air. I would appreciate any suggestions or pictures of how to
get it done.
Dave in Salem
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Solid Riveting Problem |
Debo,
I assume you did all the regular stuff. Deburr everything. Clamp the
pieces together. The rivet is the right size for the whole etc,. I think
the only time this happened to me was if there was something between the
layers or I didn't clamp the pieces tight enough or close enough to the
hole. Not sure though, it's been longer than a couple of days.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: Debo Cox
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Solid Riveting Problem
Hi guys,
I'm working on the solid riveting of my wing spars, and am having a
strange thing happen while driving the smaller -5 rivets. The plans call
for the factory rivet head to rest on the spar web, so the rivet goes
through the web, through the spar cap, and through the spar cap angle -
that's where you're supposed to drive the shop head.
I've driven all of the -6 rivets and they came out fine, but whenever
I drive a shop head on the -5 rivets, the spar cap angle lifts slightly
(see attached pic). I'm squeezing the parts together as I drive the
rivet so there's no space in between them. I've only driven a couple of
these smaller guys, but it seems to be happening with every rivet. In
some places it's lifted more than the picture shows. I'm stumped.
Anybody seen this?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD accident |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Probably shouldn't bring this up, but I wonder how his seat belt brackets
held up?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD accident
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>
> Thank God they are OK, glad to see it was well built per the designs.
> That is the second crash I have heard of engine problems and the Zenith
> design allowed the pilot to walk away.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>>Sent: Oct 24, 2006 6:49 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD accident
>>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>>
>>This was posted by a witness (Oscar Zuniga) on the Corvair list:
>>
>><quote>
>>No, this one wasn't a Corvair but I witnessed it. A very nice Zenith with
>>a
>>Rotax 912 went down at San Geronimo yesterday. Everybody walked away, no
>>fire, but substantial damage. I heard the airplane taking off to the
>>south,
>>looked out of the hangar to watch the takeoff (can't resist watching),
>>noticed he wasn't climbing out as smartly as Randy's ZenVair usually does,
>>his climb seemed to go flat just about the time the engine sounded like it
>>went to half throttle just about over the numbers at the south (upwind)
>>end
>>of the field. Never revved any higher, the airplane went level and then
>>started mushing, power dropped even more, and I watched in horror as it
>>began to descend and start a slow turn to the east (away from the house
>>that's out that way). Down, down, down out of sight and into the brush...
>>then a loud crash and crunch and there were a bunch of us running over
>>there
>>to see what happened.
>>
>>My first thought: "no smoke, no fire. That's good". When we got to the
>>scene, the pilot and his passenger, a lady, were standing well clear of
>>the
>>crash site looking to see if a fire would break out. Pilot had hurt his
>>left side ribcage on the side of the cockpit as it slewed in on the
>>ground,
>>but other than that they both seemed OK.
>>
>>He had touched down on the mains in a cleared field, rolled and bounced it
>>through a barbed-wire fence and three steel T-posts that started the
>>slowing
>>process, then into brush about six or eight feet high that very quickly
>>stopped the plane. Beautiful 3-blade wooden prop lost two blades, left
>>wing
>>and main gear of the airplane took the brunt of the hit, based on what I
>>saw
>>it's a tossup as to whether it will be rebuildable or not. Nobody wanted
>>to
>>touch anything until the NTSB checked it out. Pilot did a beautiful job
>>of
>>maintaining airspeed above stall even in the gentle turn, steering it away
>>from populated areas, and putting it down level. ELT did not go off.
>><end quote>
>>
>>-- Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Wing tips |
Hi Dave,
You are certainly not alone. Fiberglass tips never fit right.
I don't know exactly which version of "never fit right" you are
fighting. Have you tried applying a lot of heat? I use a paint
stripper heat gun that looks like a hair dryer on steroids. I move
it around and watch for the gel coat to boil - which can make the
finish look bad. Once the part is nice and hot - around 200 degrees
F you can bend it. If you hold it in place while it cools it will
stay in that shape.
I hope that helps. Don't forget to protect yourself from the hot
plastic. Heavy gloves may or may not be enough.
Paul
XL fuselage
>
>Someone tell me it's not just me. I've been working on the right
>wing tip for the last couple of evenings. I can't believe how this
>thing is supposed to work. The front fiberglass part fits OK? I've
>drilled the "L" metal and clecoed it to the top skin. So, it looks
>like the side and top come together with a gap between them. Sort
>of. I haven't drilled any thing else yet. I don't know how to make
>it fit better. I'm not sure it can be done. I even thought of
>covering the parts up and overlaying them with fiberglass and making
>a complete tip that way. I probably won't. I like building, but I
>don't want to die before I get the thing into the air. I would
>appreciate any suggestions or pictures of how to get it done.
>
>
>Dave in Salem
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Solid Riveting Problem |
Hi Debo,
Are you sure that you put the head of the rivet on the thinner material
side
to rivet ?
Chris
_____
De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Debo Cox
Envoy=E9 : Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:01 PM
=C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com
Objet : Zenith-List: Solid Riveting Problem
Hi guys,
I'm working on the solid riveting of my wing spars, and am having a
strange
thing happen while driving the smaller -5 rivets. The plans call for the
factory rivet head to rest on the spar web, so the rivet goes through
the
web, through the spar cap, and through the spar cap angle - that's where
you're supposed to drive the shop head.
I've driven all of the -6 rivets and they came out fine, but whenever I
drive a shop head on the -5 rivets, the spar cap angle lifts slightly
(see
attached pic). I'm squeezing the parts together as I drive the rivet so
there's no space in between them. I've only driven a couple of these
smaller
guys, but it seems to be happening with every rivet. In some places it's
lifted more than the picture shows. I'm stumped.
Anybody seen this?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
XL/Corvair
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Wing tips |
Paul,
I forgot I do have a heat gun. As soon as I found out which truck it is
in I am going to try it out. I think the 801 tips are similar to the
601's. The way the metal part is designed to be installed is not exactly
the best I have seen. I don't want to redesign the wheel, but it seems
like it could be better.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Wing tips
Hi Dave,
You are certainly not alone. Fiberglass tips never fit right.
I don't know exactly which version of "never fit right" you are
fighting. Have you tried applying a lot of heat? I use a paint
stripper heat gun that looks like a hair dryer on steroids. I move it
around and watch for the gel coat to boil - which can make the finish
look bad. Once the part is nice and hot - around 200 degrees F you can
bend it. If you hold it in place while it cools it will stay in that
shape.
I hope that helps. Don't forget to protect yourself from the hot
plastic. Heavy gloves may or may not be enough.
Paul
XL fuselage
Someone tell me it's not just me. I've been working on the right
wing tip for the last couple of evenings. I can't believe how this thing
is supposed to work. The front fiberglass part fits OK? I've drilled the
"L" metal and clecoed it to the top skin. So, it looks like the side and
top come together with a gap between them. Sort of. I haven't drilled
any thing else yet. I don't know how to make it fit better. I'm not sure
it can be done. I even thought of covering the parts up and overlaying
them with fiberglass and making a complete tip that way. I probably
won't. I like building, but I don't want to die before I get the thing
into the air. I would appreciate any suggestions or pictures of how to
get it done.
Dave in Salem
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Solid Riveting Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Debo,
How about taking a piece of the leftover spar cap and making a tool that will fit
between the clecoes and have a notch or hole around the rivet. Clamp that
then rivet and see if it helps. I ran a couple of test pieces the other day and
did not see that happen. There are two different lengths of the 5 rivets.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70053#70053
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | picture of the day + question |
Hello, listers
Here's a picture of the nose ribs (right outboard panel, CH601-HD) clecoed to the
spar.
Probably one of the last -HDs being built these days...
The threaded rod with the wood blocks keeps the ribs parallel to each other. I
only need to make
the first one perpendicular to the spar, and all the other will be in position.
The white stripes are pieces of masking tape that are holding rivet stems (steel),
one on each
side of the flange (over kill, one would be more than enough). This way I'll be
able to locate
the flange edges with a magnet when the ribs are covered with the skin. Already
tested, and works
nicely.
Question: the construction manual says you should (a) rivet all the ribs to the
spar; (b) rivet
the rear spar to the ribs (b) drill and rivet the rear (top and bottom) skins,
and only then (e)
drill and rivet the nose skin.
I'm thinking that doing the nose skin first of all would make the fitting of the
nose skin much
easier. But, I am afraid of painting myself into a corner - although I haven't
seen a corner or
any paint...
Does anybody see any "gotchas"?
Thanks in advance for your insight
Carlos Sa
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
do not archive (until a good answer is found :o) )
__________________________________________________
En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Courriel vous offre la meilleure protection possible
contre les messages non nollicits
http://mail.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Courriel
Message 36
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" <matthew@mucker.net>
Personally, I think that's a perfectly acceptable topic to bring up.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Dave Ruddiman
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:20 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD accident
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> Probably shouldn't bring this up, but I wonder how his seat
> belt brackets
> held up?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD accident
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega
> <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Thank God they are OK, glad to see it was well built per
> the designs.
> > That is the second crash I have heard of engine problems
> and the Zenith
> > design allowed the pilot to walk away.
> >
> > Juan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
> >>Sent: Oct 24, 2006 6:49 PM
> >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD accident
> >>
> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
> >>
> >>This was posted by a witness (Oscar Zuniga) on the Corvair list:
> >>
> >><quote>
> >>No, this one wasn't a Corvair but I witnessed it. A very
> nice Zenith with
> >>a
> >>Rotax 912 went down at San Geronimo yesterday. Everybody
> walked away, no
> >>fire, but substantial damage. I heard the airplane taking
> off to the
> >>south,
> >>looked out of the hangar to watch the takeoff (can't resist
> watching),
> >>noticed he wasn't climbing out as smartly as Randy's
> ZenVair usually does,
> >>his climb seemed to go flat just about the time the engine
> sounded like it
> >>went to half throttle just about over the numbers at the
> south (upwind)
> >>end
> >>of the field. Never revved any higher, the airplane went
> level and then
> >>started mushing, power dropped even more, and I watched in
> horror as it
> >>began to descend and start a slow turn to the east (away
> from the house
> >>that's out that way). Down, down, down out of sight and
> into the brush...
> >>then a loud crash and crunch and there were a bunch of us
> running over
> >>there
> >>to see what happened.
> >>
> >>My first thought: "no smoke, no fire. That's good". When
> we got to the
> >>scene, the pilot and his passenger, a lady, were standing
> well clear of
> >>the
> >>crash site looking to see if a fire would break out. Pilot
> had hurt his
> >>left side ribcage on the side of the cockpit as it slewed in on the
> >>ground,
> >>but other than that they both seemed OK.
> >>
> >>He had touched down on the mains in a cleared field, rolled
> and bounced it
> >>through a barbed-wire fence and three steel T-posts that
> started the
> >>slowing
> >>process, then into brush about six or eight feet high that
> very quickly
> >>stopped the plane. Beautiful 3-blade wooden prop lost two
> blades, left
> >>wing
> >>and main gear of the airplane took the brunt of the hit,
> based on what I
> >>saw
> >>it's a tossup as to whether it will be rebuildable or not.
> Nobody wanted
> >>to
> >>touch anything until the NTSB checked it out. Pilot did a
> beautiful job
> >>of
> >>maintaining airspeed above stall even in the gentle turn,
> steering it away
> >>from populated areas, and putting it down level. ELT did
> not go off.
> >><end quote>
> >>
> >>-- Craig
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | HDS Weight and Balance form |
Gents,=0A=0A Could someone please forward a weight and balance form for
the HDS to btucke73@yahoo.com. I have a very old construction manual that
does not have one. I have not monitored the list for a few months, but th
e plane is finally ready for inspection! =0A=0AR/=0A=0ABrandon=0A=0AHDS /
Corvair complete=0AOceanside, Ca.=0A=0A
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Anybody going to Corvair College #10 |
I have a Corvair engine that I bought and tore apart, it is for sale now. M
y 1st child will be born soon, and I am going to be too busy the next sever
al years. I have all of WW videos, books, tapped crank with threaded shaft,
all done by WW. Will let go pretty cheap.. I would feel bad to just to tos
s it, but I need the xtra rm. =0AI really do not want to ship all this stuf
somewhere... not sure I know how without damaging parts. =0A=0AMichael Hil
derbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Craig
Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tues
day, October 24, 2006 5:45:10 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Anybody go
ing to Corvair College #10=0A=0A=0A--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Crai
g Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>=0A=0A>> (William) also mentioned that mos
t folks are able to get one rebuilt by=0Aonly following his manual=0A=0ABuy
the videos too. There are procedures and techniques that I only felt=0Acom
==============
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