---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/28/06: 68 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:31 AM - Re: Is the Digest Down??? (lwhitlow) 2. 05:56 AM - 701 headset jacks location? (RayStL) 3. 07:01 AM - Re: 701 headset jacks location? (LRM) 4. 07:21 AM - Test Flight (Rosalie DeMeo) 5. 07:29 AM - 601 wing locker hinge (burbby) 6. 07:29 AM - Static RPM (Mike & Kerin Gleason) 7. 08:37 AM - Fence (Bill Naumuk) 8. 08:38 AM - Re: Test Flight (Juan Vega) 9. 08:57 AM - Re: Static RPM (Jim Hoak) 10. 09:20 AM - Re: Fence (Dave G.) 11. 09:28 AM - Re: Fence (JOHN STARN) 12. 09:48 AM - Re: Fence (Robin Bellach) 13. 10:16 AM - Re: Fence (Jeremy McCourt) 14. 10:17 AM - Re: 601 wing locker hinge (LarryMcFarland) 15. 10:26 AM - Zenith Aircraft is arming the Iraqi Airforce!!!! (TYA2) 16. 10:29 AM - Re: Fence (LarryMcFarland) 17. 10:33 AM - Re: Static RPM (LarryMcFarland) 18. 10:42 AM - Re: Fence (ROBERT SCEPPA) 19. 11:14 AM - 701 Elevator Stab Mounting (Tony Bonsell) 20. 11:47 AM - Re: Test Flight (Edward Moody II) 21. 12:00 PM - Re: Test Flight (Craig Payne) 22. 12:08 PM - Re: Fence (Craig Payne) 23. 12:29 PM - Re: Test Flight (Craig Payne) 24. 12:44 PM - plumbers tape for break fittings (john butterfield) 25. 12:49 PM - Re: Fence (robert stone) 26. 12:57 PM - Re: Test Flight (robert stone) 27. 01:10 PM - Re: Test Flight (Craig Payne) 28. 01:36 PM - Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! (Carlos Sa) 29. 02:01 PM - Re: plumbers tape for break fittings (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 30. 02:20 PM - Re: Fence (William Condon) 31. 02:31 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (Carlos Sa) 32. 03:10 PM - Fence retraction (Bill Naumuk) 33. 03:20 PM - Re: Fence (Trainnut01@aol.com) 34. 03:24 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (Juan Vega) 35. 03:24 PM - Re: 601 wing locker hinge (Trainnut01@aol.com) 36. 03:28 PM - corner stabilizer skin rivet (Dino Bortolin) 37. 03:29 PM - Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! (Juan Vega) 38. 03:50 PM - Re: Test Flight (george may) 39. 03:54 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (george may) 40. 03:59 PM - Re: Fence (Juan Vega) 41. 04:04 PM - Re: 701 headset jacks location? (Juan Vega) 42. 04:09 PM - Re: Fence (robert stone) 43. 04:22 PM - Re: Fence (Juan Vega) 44. 04:33 PM - Re: 601HD accident (Randy Stout) 45. 04:42 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (Craig Payne) 46. 04:42 PM - Re: Fence (Big Gee) 47. 04:46 PM - Re: Fence (Craig Payne) 48. 04:54 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (Juan Vega) 49. 04:56 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (n801bh@netzero.com) 50. 04:56 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (Juan Vega) 51. 05:04 PM - More Spam, Randy (Zed Smith) 52. 05:17 PM - Re: Y stick vs. Duel stick (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 53. 05:21 PM - Re: Pet Store Tale (Zed Smith) 54. 05:29 PM - Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! (Gig Giacona) 55. 05:30 PM - Re: Y stick vs. Duel stick (Juan Vega) 56. 05:31 PM - Re: Test Flight - crew? (Gig Giacona) 57. 05:38 PM - Re: 601HD accident (Gig Giacona) 58. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! (Craig Payne) 59. 05:50 PM - Re: Fence retraction (LarryMcFarland) 60. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: 601HD accident (Randy Stout) 61. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: 601HD accident (Craig Payne) 62. 08:50 PM - 701 Scratch vs Sub-Kits? (Arthur Olechowski) 63. 09:09 PM - Re: Fence (NYTerminat@aol.com) 64. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! (Paul Mulwitz) 65. 09:31 PM - Re: 701 Scratch vs Sub-Kits? (Paul Mulwitz) 66. 09:39 PM - Re: 701 Scratch vs Sub-Kits? (John Bolding) 67. 11:30 PM - Re: Fence (TxDave) 68. 11:54 PM - Test Flight (Rosalie DeMeo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Is the Digest Down??? From: "lwhitlow" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lwhitlow" Matt I'v only gotten 2 out of the last six digests Comcast swears its not them but I really suspect Comcast changed the spam filter Can you check the logs to see if other Comcast users are getting bounced I reaize you're buzy and there is no rush here Thanks Larry Whitlow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70673#70673 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 headset jacks location? From: "RayStL" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "RayStL" Is there a generally accepted place to put pilot/passenger headset jacks on the 701? -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70685#70685 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:36 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 headset jacks location? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" Normally most put them on the panel right and left sides. However, I preferred to have mine in the middle behind me. A little more trouble, but the wires are certainly out of the way. I built a little box that sits between the seats on top of the luggage compartment. There I have both sets of jacks, a cigarette lighter, and cabin lights. You can see a picture of it in the last picture on this page. http://www.skyhawg.com/piano.html. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "RayStL" Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 headset jacks location? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "RayStL" > > Is there a generally accepted place to put pilot/passenger headset jacks > on the 701? > > -------- > Ray St-Laurent > 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70685#70685 > > > -- > 10/27/2006 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:18 AM PST US From: Rosalie DeMeo Subject: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo I am about two months from finishing N601BD, so I am soliciting thoughts about the test flight. I am a relatively low hours pilot. With mixed emotions about it, I am leaning to having someone more experienced make the first flight. I've read several "first flight" articles, pamphlets and even a full book about it. What have others done? Safety, of course is my conern. The distraction of monitoring all those statistics in a three to five minute tour in the pattern seems like a heavy load. Any thoughts? Brad ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 wing locker hinge From: "burbby" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "burbby" I am installing the left wing locker hinge. My hinge is taller (or thicker) than what appears on the drawing. With shims installed the hinge will be approx 2 mm above the wing surfice. Will this be a airflow problem that I should be worried about? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70703#70703 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:50 AM PST US From: "Mike & Kerin Gleason" Subject: Zenith-List: Static RPM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike & Kerin Gleason" Listers I have a 912UL 80hp with a 68" Warp Drive. Pitch is set at 9 degrees at the tip as prescribed. Based on what Warp Drive has told me and what I can discern from the archives I should be seeing 5200 to 5400 static rpm. I am getting just over 5000rpm and I have verified the tach. I was wondering what you guys running the same engine, prop combination were seeing for static rpm and at what pitch? Mike 701 ready to fly do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:51 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Fence All- Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa Jeanne- There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa Please consider the following: I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:41 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega I am the same time away from flying my 601xl. what you need before you get behind your plane is some time in the type. If something should go wrong at least I would have the "feel" for the plane. In case of a problem you want to set your plane for best glide, position for a landing spot, then work out the problem, If you are not comfortable in the plane I personally feel like i would be behind the plane in stead of ahead of it. If built well, flying the first flight in a 601 should be a cake walk. It is an easy plane to fly, however it is not a cherokee. The pitch sensitivity is tight compared to production aircraft, tight steering is an understatement on the last 601 I flew. if you thought of going somewhere, I swear it read my mind and was going in that direction. What I did was call the factory to see where I can get some hours in a 601xl. If you call around, you can rent for some time to get the feel of the 601. to make a long story longer, My advice is get some time in someone elses 601. Juan 601 xl Tampa -----Original Message----- >From: Rosalie DeMeo >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 10:20 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Test Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo > >I am about two months from finishing N601BD, so I am soliciting thoughts >about the test flight. I am a relatively low hours pilot. With mixed >emotions about it, I am leaning to having someone more experienced make >the first flight. I've read several "first flight" articles, pamphlets >and even a full book about it. What have others done? Safety, of >course is my conern. The distraction of monitoring all those statistics >in a three to five minute tour in the pattern seems like a heavy load. >Any thoughts? > >Brad > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:41 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Static RPM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" Mike and Kerin, I have a Rotax 912UL 80HP on my 601HD but have a GSC prop. I have it set at 16 degrees, but it at 2/3 of the way out the blade so we're not comparing apples to apples, however the RPM thing should be close to the same because you want to be able to develope full power/ RPM on take-off. I have found that the cooler weather also affects the whole balance with this. I was advised in the beginning ( 10 years ago ) to make sure I got 5100 RPM static so that I could get about 5500 on climb out and would not exceed 5800 RPM max throttle in level flight. I did that ( it was in the cool time of the year - in Georgia - about 40 to 50 degrees F ) and it worked out fine. I've installed a new set of blades on my prop and have found that at the same angle ( 16 degrees - GSC Prop ) now only gets me 4900 RPM static but the RPM gets to 5500 RPM at cruise climb at full throttle. I haven't checked it yet to see if it exceed 5800 RPM max throttle in level flight. I doubt it since I'm getting less static RPM. Since I currently fly out of an airport with 5000 ft runway the low RPM is not a problem, however if I were to go into a short field and try to get out with a heavy losd on a hot day it may be a problem developing full power. I will change the prop angle ( reduce it ) so that I can get 5100 RPM static again. If you are going to fly your test flight out of a long runway airport the 5000 RPM you,re getting would be OK, especially on a 701. At least you probably won't overspeed your engine. I'm concerned that if you get 5400 RPM static, that you may have an overspeed situation at full throttle in level flight. That's about all I can think of about it, Good luck with your 701. Jim Hoak 601 HD - Rotax 912 UL - 532 Hours. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Kerin Gleason" Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 10:28 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Static RPM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike & Kerin Gleason" > > > Listers > I have a 912UL 80hp with a 68" Warp Drive. Pitch is set at 9 degrees at > the tip as prescribed. Based on what Warp Drive has told me and what I can > discern from the archives I should be seeing 5200 to 5400 static rpm. I > am getting just over 5000rpm and I have verified the tach. > > I was wondering what you guys running the same engine, prop combination > were seeing for static rpm and at what pitch? > > Mike > 701 ready to fly > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:07 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence Bill, I think if you check you will find that the 911 terrorists did not come from or through Canada. It was part of the original misinformation supllied by your officials that turned out to be incorrect. None of them came from or through Canada, they were all in your country as residents, visitors or students. As to the rest, I think it is currently a goal to pay Boeing a few billion to secure your northern border, they aleady have gunships patrolling the great lakes. It really is best that I not offer any opinion on your government. BTW can you get your abassador to stop telling us what we should do, it's irritating. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fence All- Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa Jeanne- There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa Please consider the following: I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:53 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence WRONG....."This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington." The Constitution was written & US military paid the price for "WE THE PEOPLE" NOT "we the world". Sorry but the fence WILL slow down in influx of ILLEGAL ALIENS and it's meant to protect US, not keep us in. Those who came in via Ellis Island were legal immigrants not ILLEGAL ALIENS. KABONG Do Not Archive. (GBA & GWB) ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fence All- Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa Jeanne- There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa Please consider the following: I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:47 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence I must be missing something. What does fencing, terrorists, politics, etc. have to do with building Zenith Aircraft? Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence Bill, I think if you check you will find that the 911 terrorists did not come from or through Canada. It was part of the original misinformation supllied by your officials that turned out to be incorrect. None of them came from or through Canada, they were all in your country as residents, visitors or students. As to the rest, I think it is currently a goal to pay Boeing a few billion to secure your northern border, they aleady have gunships patrolling the great lakes. It really is best that I not offer any opinion on your government. BTW can you get your abassador to stop telling us what we should do, it's irritating. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fence All- Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa Jeanne- There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa Please consider the following: I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. Thank you. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:47 AM PST US From: Jeremy McCourt Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeremy McCourt I guess if someone crashes on the fence, they need to worry about where to bury the survivors. Robin Bellach wrote: > I must be missing something. What does fencing, terrorists, politics, > etc. have to do with building Zenith Aircraft? > > Do not archive. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dave G. > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:19 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: Fence > > Bill, I think if you check you will find that the 911 terrorists > did not come from or through Canada. It was part of the original > misinformation supllied by your officials that turned out to be > incorrect. None of them came from or through Canada, they were all > in your country as residents, visitors or students. As to the > rest, I think it is currently a goal to pay Boeing a few billion > to secure your northern border, they aleady have gunships > patrolling the great lakes. It really is best that I not offer any > opinion on your government. BTW can you get your abassador to stop > telling us what we should do, it's irritating. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Naumuk > *To:* zenith list > *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:36 PM > *Subject:* Zenith-List: Fence > > All- > Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I > don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list > membership. > I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > > > Jeanne- > There is no link on your website for editorial > contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this > submission. Thanks. > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa > Please consider the following: > I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the > incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. > The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great > Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed > to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link > fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of > taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are > dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for > political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed > immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial > at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both > parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only > proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, > and to Hell with the rest of the country. > Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was > responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the > Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the > rise and fall of the American Empire? > 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. > Too close to "Fatherland" Security. > 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. > Are we going to fence off Canada, too? > 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are > willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the > decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who > were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then > died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American > Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on > slave ships). > This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and > defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people > throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in > Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, > think in terms of right or wrong. > Thank you. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:09 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 wing locker hinge --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Burbby, The hinge should be flush with or below the airfoil surfaces because you will end up loosing lift or airspeed or both with an obstruction that breaks the flow over the wing. Laminar it's not, but you should make whatever correction to get it to rotate the lid down without leaving anything above the wing save the edge of the baggage compartment lid. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive burbby wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "burbby" > >I am installing the left wing locker hinge. My hinge is taller (or thicker) than what appears on the drawing. With shims installed the hinge will be approx 2 mm above the wing surfice. Will this be a airflow problem that I should be worried about? > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70703#70703 > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:05 AM PST US From: TYA2 Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Aircraft is arming the Iraqi Airforce!!!! Here is the link. Chris Heinz designed aircraft for the French, and then for the North American market. He built a business in Canada and designed many airplanes here and produced many kits and certified aircraft. The big export market is the USA he built plants in Missouri and Georgia. The plant in Georgia is called AMD. The CH2000 design certified in Canada is now called the Alarus and built in Gegia. The CH2000 design is now licensed to the Jordanians and being produced with upgraded power and various surveillance gear for the IRAQI air force,. So finally we Canadians have a new war bird in the skies. Unless you count the Dehavilland DHC1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 series then Boeing and Bombardier. Go to www.newplane.com and then find the surveillance section. I was thinking of painting my CH2000 in up as an Iraqi warbird. I flew my CH2000 right along the border from lake of the woods to western Saskatchewan. No intercepts, no radar contacts or ???. GPS is wonderful. I was curious what the real state of alert was. When I had landed at Syracuse New York the NEW YORK ANG F-16s were tearing around the skies furiously as if ww3 had begun... Reg Ex RCAF/CAF and CH2000 owner. Yes the US government is going to pour a ton of money down the toilet building a fence along their northern border but they could always spend the money on Zenair surveillance aircraft. Doing so would then give a huge supply of cheap surplus parts. If you want the government to waste money at least do it on something to do with spin offs for the rest of us. Not only that their might even be cheap surplus Zenairs for the used plane market. So if you are paranoid and want a fence encourage the government to buy a ton of Zenair surveillance aircraft, train a bunch of pilots and you at least leave a positive legacy for government spending. SO lets get those congress people building Zenairs by the hundreds!!!! Just think of the technology flow down to the rest of us on a Cost plus production plan to build a 1000 Zenair CH2000s !!!! :>) For those who cross borders regularly it is always a stark contrast to see Robocop on the US side of the border and happy Harry and Hannah on the Canadian side (unarmed)... The fun part is when the friendly Canadians tell them yes you can come to Canada but without sufficient ID your US government won't let you back into the USA unless I reject you at the border now.... At 11:48 AM 10/28/2006 -0500, you wrote: >I must be missing something. What does fencing, terrorists, politics, etc. >have to do with building Zenith Aircraft? > >Do not archive. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dave G. >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:19 AM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence > >Bill, I think if you check you will find that the 911 terrorists did not >come from or through Canada. It was part of the original misinformation >supllied by your officials that turned out to be incorrect. None of them >came from or through Canada, they were all in your country as residents, >visitors or students. As to the rest, I think it is currently a goal to >pay Boeing a few billion to secure your northern border, they aleady have >gunships patrolling the great lakes. It really is best that I not offer >any opinion on your government. BTW can you get your abassador to stop >telling us what we should do, it's irritating. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bill Naumuk >To: zenith list >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:36 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Fence > >All- > Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think > this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. > I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:28 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Hi guys, HOW ABOUT A "DO NOT ARCHIVE" WITH THESE POSTS. If they don't belong in the forum, leave them out, find another group who cares enough to be a group that would act. When I'm reading the Zenith List posts, I am not political or anything else. Doubt many are either. Please consider the value of being responsible for these emotional posts. The archives, content of our projects and progress are adversely affected by these things. Let's stay on topic or at least add the appropriate Do Not Archive, Please,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't > think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. > I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > > > Jeanne- > There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but > I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa > Please consider the following: > I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the > incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. > The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of > China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the > Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting > such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the > face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are > being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't > reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial > at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this > atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" > represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. > Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was > responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek > Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of > the American Empire? > 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too > close to "Fatherland" Security. > 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we > going to fence off Canada, too? > 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to > work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the > Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through > Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect > the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought > against their will on slave ships). > This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the > Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world > rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in > terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. > Thank you. > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:23 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Static RPM --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Mike, I'm not familiar with the low limits of pitch settings for the 701 so equipped, but 9-degrees seems a bit low. Before test flying your bird, get with Zenith and ask them what is the optimum middle ground set. Larry McFarland Do not archive Mike & Kerin Gleason wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike & Kerin Gleason" > > > Listers > I have a 912UL 80hp with a 68" Warp Drive. Pitch is set at 9 degrees > at the tip as prescribed. Based on what Warp Drive has told me and > what I can discern from the archives I should be seeing 5200 to 5400 > static rpm. I am getting just over 5000rpm and I have verified the tach. > > I was wondering what you guys running the same engine, prop > combination were seeing for static rpm and at what pitch? > > Mike > 701 ready to fly > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:35 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA >Lets stick to building planes, then we can strafe the >terrorists as they climb up over the fence or at >scare them off. Do not archive....BS --- Jeremy McCourt wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeremy McCourt > > > I guess if someone crashes on the fence, they need > to worry about where > to bury the survivors. > > Robin Bellach wrote: > > I must be missing something. What does fencing, > terrorists, politics, > > etc. have to do with building Zenith Aircraft? > > > > Do not archive. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Dave G. > > > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > > > *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:19 AM > > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: Fence > > > > Bill, I think if you check you will find that > the 911 terrorists > > did not come from or through Canada. It was > part of the original > > misinformation supllied by your officials that > turned out to be > > incorrect. None of them came from or through > Canada, they were all > > in your country as residents, visitors or > students. As to the > > rest, I think it is currently a goal to pay > Boeing a few billion > > to secure your northern border, they aleady > have gunships > > patrolling the great lakes. It really is best > that I not offer any > > opinion on your government. BTW can you get > your abassador to stop > > telling us what we should do, it's irritating. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Bill Naumuk > > > *To:* zenith list > > > *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:36 > PM > > *Subject:* Zenith-List: Fence > > > > All- > > Attached is a letter to the our local > paper's editor. I > > don't think this is an off-list topic, due > to our list > > membership. > > I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! > > Bill Naumuk > > HDS Fuselage > > Townville, Pa > > > > > > Jeanne- > > There is no link on your website for > editorial > > contributions, but I figured you could > correctly direct this > > submission. Thanks. > > Bill Naumuk > > Townville, Pa > > Please consider the following: > > I'm normally apolitical, but the > recent actions of the > > incumbent administration mandate my > humble, dissenting opinion. > > The fence between Mexico and the US is > a farce. The Great > > Wall of China, with it's watchtowers > manned by archers failed > > to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 > miles of chain link > > fence have? Erecting such a fence is a > blatant waste of > > taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face > to our people who are > > dying to protect basic ideals that are > being circumvented for > > political reasons. If this decision isn't > reversed > > immediately, you and I are no better than > the Nazis on trial > > at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, > both > > parties allowed this atrocity of a law to > pass! This only > > proves that our "Representatives" > represent only themselves, > > and to Hell with the rest of the country. > > Bureaucracy has taken over. > Self-sustaining government was > > responsible for the rise and fall of the > Roman Empire, the > > Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are > we witnessing the > > rise and fall of the American Empire? > > 1. The label Department of Homeland > Security makes me gag. > > Too close to "Fatherland" Security. > > 2. The 911 bombers came into the > country through Canada. > > Are we going to fence off Canada, too? > > 3. We're trying to keep out > hardworking people who are > > willing to work for less than US citizens. > Most of us are the > > decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, > and Russians who > > were welcomed in through Ellis Island and > did the same, then > > died in WWII fighting to protect the right > to the "American > > Dream." (Not to mention those brought > against their will on > > slave ships). > > This time, you and I as Americans have > to step up and > > defend the Constitution, written to > protect oppressed people > > throughout the world rather than the > "Misrepresentatives" in > > Washington. Don't think in terms of > Republican or Democrat, > > think in terms of right or wrong. > > Thank you. > > > > * > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron > > * > > > > * > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron > > * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited (http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:48 AM PST US From: "Tony Bonsell" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Elevator Stab Mounting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony Bonsell" Hi Guys I'm mounting my elevator to the horizontal stabilizer, and I seem to have encountered a bit of a problem. In the photo manual, it says to support the elevator in A neutral position, and it shows a 2x4 block holding the elevator up. Then I have the deflection template plans that shows THE neutral position as being when the top of the elevator and the stab are in line. When you put a block under the elevator, the front of the elevator rotates and kicks the pivot point up (down) up a couple of mm and throws off my centre hinge point. How did you guys do it? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:38 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" If you have doubts and second thoughts, then you are not the guy to fly the plane for the first couple of hours. Your doubts will reduce your concentration and make you less fit to be the test pilot than you actually are. While we're on the subject, another pilot who has never flown a plane like yours is not a great choice either. Mid Atlantic Sportplanes (and probably others) offer instruction in the 601XL.... is that your model? You did not make that clear. In any case, get enough time in the model you built to feel confident (not over-confident... that's dangerous too) then do your own test flight if you want to. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL/Jabiru/cabin area Do Not Archive > > I am about two months from finishing N601BD, so I am soliciting thoughts > about the test flight. I am a relatively low hours pilot. With mixed > emotions about it, I am leaning to having someone more experienced make > the first flight. I've read several "first flight" articles, pamphlets > and even a full book about it. What have others done? Safety, of course > is my conern. The distraction of monitoring all those statistics in a > three to five minute tour in the pattern seems like a heavy load. Any > thoughts? > > Brad ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:59 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I face the same dilemma and will find a "qualified" test pilot for the first flight or two - someone skilled enough to react quickly and correctly to any unusual behavior of the aircraft. But it places you in a difficult moral position. You are asking someone to risk their life based on your construction skills. Best to get them involved in observing your construction so they can make an informed decision. As to tracking all the data here are a couple of ideas: - just fly the plane and observe general flight characteristics - have someone on the radio log readings and observations you broadcast (on an empty channel) - buy a small digital voice recorder and connect it into your intercom - my Lightspeed headset has a cell phone interface which I'll be testing. The voice recorders are cheap. My Sony ICD-B300 cost under $40 at the local office supply superstore. - Install one of the "cheap" glass panels and log the data output. The GRT and Dynon units send data out the serial port which can be captured by a laptop while the MGL Avionics' Enigma can record to its own memory card. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:00 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fence I too wish to apologize to our Mexican (and Canadian when it comes to that) members. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:17 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" On the left coast you can get 601XL time at Dragonfly Aviation in Santa Rosa, CA (just down the road from Michael Heintz's Quality Sports Planes). There are also these folks in western Colorado (but I'm not sure they actually have a 601XL yet): www.gjsportpilot.com/ I believe there is also 601XL instruction available in Arizona but I have lost the link. If you can't find a 601XL consider the Evektor Sport Star at St. Charles Flying Service in MO. That is what I soloed in and its flight characteristics resemble the 601XLs. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:10 PM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: plumbers tape for break fittings --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield hi list do i need to use teflon tape to seal the fittings to the brake cylinders and brake housing john butterfield XL, corvair, torrance, ca --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be > found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > plain ASCII version > of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a > generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-10-26.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-10-26.txt > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu > 10/26/06: 31 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:32 AM - Trim tabs (robert stone) > 2. 06:41 AM - Re: Trim tabs > (crvsecretary@aol.com) > 3. 07:10 AM - Re: Trim tabs (Robin Bellach) > 4. 07:29 AM - Accident Investigation Results > (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) > 5. 07:43 AM - Re: Trim tabs (Zodie Rocket) > 6. 07:52 AM - Re: Accident Investigation > Results (Zodie Rocket) > 7. 08:00 AM - CH601XL Brake Lines (Hunt > Malcolm) > 8. 08:20 AM - sheet metal brake (Dave > Ruddiman) > 9. 08:52 AM - Re: CH601XL Brake Lines (Robin > Bellach) > 10. 09:15 AM - Re: Trim tabs (Charles Wacker) > 11. 09:48 AM - Re: CH601XL Brake Lines (Juan > Vega) > 12. 09:55 AM - Re: Accident Investigation > Results (Juan Vega) > 13. 09:56 AM - Re: Accident Investigation > Results (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) > 14. 10:28 AM - Re: Accident Investigation > Results (Zodie Rocket) > 15. 10:52 AM - Re: CH601XL Brake Lines (Geoff > Heap) > 16. 12:54 PM - Re: sheet metal brake (Geoff > Heap) > 17. 01:45 PM - Re: 601 seat belt attachment > history. (Chuck Deiterich) > 18. 03:28 PM - EAA 774 Bald Eagle Day (Matt > Stecher) > 19. 03:45 PM - About Zodiac's weight (Roberto > Ap. Rodrigues de Brito) > 20. 03:58 PM - Re: Culver Props/ Valley Eng 701 > VW engine firewall forward p (Kemter) > 21. 04:23 PM - Re: sheet metal brake (ROBERT > SCEPPA) > 22. 04:48 PM - Re: sheet metal brake (Dave > Ruddiman) > 23. 04:53 PM - Re: About Zodiac's weight > (LarryMcFarland) > 24. 05:40 PM - Re: Accident Investigation > Results (n801bh@netzero.com) > 25. 05:51 PM - Re: sheet metal brake (Paul > Mulwitz) > 26. 06:40 PM - Re: About Zodiac's weight (Juan > Vega) > 27. 06:51 PM - Re: About Zodiac's weight > (Southern Reflections) > 28. 07:00 PM - Bending small brackets, etc > (George Swinford) > 29. 07:28 PM - Sheet Metal Brake (Dave > Ruddiman) > 30. 07:28 PM - Re: sheet metal brake (Ron > Lendon) > 31. 11:51 PM - Test Please delete (Randy Stout) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:32:06 AM PST US > From: "robert stone" > Subject: Zenith-List: Trim tabs > > Netters. > This message is for those of you who are > building the ZodiacXL from > the standard kit. I would like to know if the left > or right wing trim > system including the tab, moter, wiring, up & down > switch is furnished > as a part of the kit or is this an option available > for more money. > > Bob Stone > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:41:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trim tabs > From: crvsecretary@aol.com > > Hello Bob: > > You need the aileron trim tab kit > > http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/trim.html > > I do not believe it is furnished with the > Quick-build kit; it was extra cost when > I purchased my standard kit. > > Tracy Smith > 601XL > N458XL (reserved) > working on wings > do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rstone4@hot.rr.com > Sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:57 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Trim tabs > > > Netters. > This message is for those of you who are > building the ZodiacXL from the standard > kit. I would like to know if the left or right wing > trim system including > the tab, moter, wiring, up & down switch is > furnished as a part of the kit > or is this an option available for more money. > > Bob Stone > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:10:59 AM PST US > From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trim tabs > > It's an option at additional cost. Per ZAC web site: > > AILERON TRIM TAB KIT $330 > Recessed tab located in the left aileron. Electric > motor actuation, with > push-button control and position indicator. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: robert stone > To: Zenith List > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:57 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Trim tabs > > > Netters. > This message is for those of you who are > building the ZodiacXL > from the standard kit. I would like to know if the > left or right wing > trim system including the tab, moter, wiring, up & > down switch is > === message truncated == Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:58 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence I thought this was a Zenith-net that was supposed to be about building Zenith airplanes, not a political forum. If you people want to engage in this kind of dialog, do it off net. ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN STARN To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence WRONG....."This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington." The Constitution was written & US military paid the price for "WE THE PEOPLE" NOT "we the world". Sorry but the fence WILL slow down in influx of ILLEGAL ALIENS and it's meant to protect US, not keep us in. Those who came in via Ellis Island were legal immigrants not ILLEGAL ALIENS. KABONG Do Not Archive. (GBA & GWB) ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fence All- Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa Jeanne- There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa Please consider the following: I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. Thank you. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:42 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "robert stone" Rosalie, It's a good safe design so if you have built it the way it was designed to be built it should be a safe airplane to fly. So much for equipment failure. If you are a low time pilot get one of the local flight instrtuctors who has a lot of experence flying different aircraft to go with you until you feel that you can handle the plane. When you feel safe by yourself, pay the guy off and fly alone. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosalie DeMeo" Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 9:20 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Test Flight > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo > > I am about two months from finishing N601BD, so I am soliciting thoughts > about the test flight. I am a relatively low hours pilot. With mixed > emotions about it, I am leaning to having someone more experienced make > the first flight. I've read several "first flight" articles, pamphlets > and even a full book about it. What have others done? Safety, of course > is my conern. The distraction of monitoring all those statistics in a > three to five minute tour in the pattern seems like a heavy load. Any > thoughts? > > Brad > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:47 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I thought that during the fly-off period there could only be a pilot in the plane (i.e. no "passenger")? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:43 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Two things came to mind when I read this post. Some time ago, one of the members of this list had his first flight performed by someone else. The plane crashed, the pilot did not survive. Every time I think of my first flight, this event comes to mind. I think I'll do it myself... Now the second thing that comes to mind: gadgets! A few links to Youtube clips were posted recently, that show some interesting uses for video cameras. Some additional samples below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCy_UdUYPnE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JIUL9-xTHg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rASASPZ_k6s My idea is to have a camera mounted on board, trained on the instrument panel and transmiting to a ground crew. They would help monitoring the instruments and would warn the pilot of any abnormal readings. This would possibly reduce the pilot's workload - or at least provide some comforting "company" -, and, if recorded, a great tool to review the flight. I don't know much about electronics or video, but there seems to be lots of equipment out there that could do the trick. Below a few links I found. Millions (literally) of hits. http://www.wirelessvideocameras.com/ http://www.microvideo.ca/ http://www.rf-links.com/ Probably the most time-consuming part of this project would be the equipment selection... Happy building Carlos CH601-HD, plans ----- Original Message ---- From: Rosalie DeMeo Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 10:20:47 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo I am about two months from finishing N601BD, so I am soliciting thoughts about the test flight. I am a relatively low hours pilot. With mixed emotions about it, I am leaning to having someone more experienced make the first flight. I've read several "first flight" articles, pamphlets and even a full book about it. What have others done? Safety, of course is my conern. The distraction of monitoring all those statistics in a three to five minute tour in the pattern seems like a heavy load. Any thoughts? Brad ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:45 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: plumbers tape for break fittings I did use a type of brass fitting thread lube; like grease, but no tef tape. Never had a leak (yet). ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:44 PM PST US From: "William Condon" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fence I have learned in life that there are two things that just about every last person in the world has passionate views about - religion and politics. And, for every person we find who agrees with our political/religious view, there is certainly another person who will disagree with that view. The beauty of this list is that we can rest with the knowledge that there is a place where absolutely every last member shares the same view - the view that safely building, flying, and maintaining experimental aircraft is of paramount importance for all who engage in this endeavor. It would be sad, indeed, if we allowed ourselves to divide up along political / religious / national / etc lines. I learn for all of your posts - when I build my aircraft, I want all of you on my team. But, if we allow this list to be a political forum, there is certain to be many of you that will be someplace else when I am ready to ask my questions. Bill C. 0% (due to military orders that have me outside of country) _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert stone Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence I thought this was a Zenith-net that was supposed to be about building Zenith airplanes, not a political forum. If you people want to engage in this kind of dialog, do it off net. ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN STARN Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence WRONG....."This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington." The Constitution was written & US military paid the price for "WE THE PEOPLE" NOT "we the world". Sorry but the fence WILL slow down in influx of ILLEGAL ALIENS and it's meant to protect US, not keep us in. Those who came in via Ellis Island were legal immigrants not ILLEGAL ALIENS. KABONG Do Not Archive. (GBA & GWB) ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fence All- Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa Jeanne- There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa Please consider the following: I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. Thank you. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:14 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa But are you allowed to have crew? Carlos do not archive ----- Original Message ---- From: Craig Payne Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:10:28 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I thought that during the fly-off period there could only be a pilot in the plane (i.e. no "passenger")? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:58 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Fence retraction All- My apologies for considering the international members of this list, and forgetting to add "Do not archive" to my posting. Over and out- permanently. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:09 PM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence A 700 mile fence on a 3000 mile boarder won't work. Somebody needs to do the math. Carroll Jernigan ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:29 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega If you document by showing pictures or in a diary, you can have another person in the fly off psigns off and you show documentation. Juan 601xl Tampa -----Original Message----- >From: Carlos Sa >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 5:30 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > >But are you allowed to have crew? > >Carlos >do not archive > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Craig Payne >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:10:28 PM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >I thought that during the fly-off period there could only be a pilot in the >plane (i.e. no "passenger")? > >-- Craig > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:29 PM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 wing locker hinge Burbey I'm sure you've thought of this but just in case-I had the same problem befor I turned the hinge over. Carroll Jernigan do not aechive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:54 PM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Zenith-List: corner stabilizer skin rivet Hello fellow builders, I have a question about the rivet that is installed at the overlapping area between the ends of the stabilizer spars and the end rib. The construction manual shows a rivet at this spot (the circled one in the attached picture). But, because of the bend radius of the end rib flange, when the end rib is installed there can't be enough overlap between the parts at this location to satisfy the edge distances. I have 14mm there on mine. How have other builders dealt with this? Dino Bortolin XL/Corvair - tail ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:44 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega great videos! I hope your first take off is not as bumpy as the cherokees" Juan 601 xl Tampa -----Original Message----- >From: Carlos Sa >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 4:36 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > >Two things came to mind when I read this post. >Some time ago, one of the members of this list had his first flight performed by someone else. The plane crashed, the pilot did not survive. >Every time I think of my first flight, this event comes to mind. I think I'll do it myself... > >Now the second thing that comes to mind: gadgets! > >A few links to Youtube clips were posted recently, that show some interesting uses for video cameras. >Some additional samples below: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCy_UdUYPnE >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JIUL9-xTHg >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rASASPZ_k6s > >My idea is to have a camera mounted on board, trained on the instrument panel and transmiting to a ground crew. They would help monitoring the instruments and would warn the pilot of any abnormal readings. >This would possibly reduce the pilot's workload - or at least provide some comforting "company" -, and, if recorded, a great tool to review the flight. > >I don't know much about electronics or video, but there seems to be lots of equipment out there that could do the trick. Below a few links I found. Millions (literally) of hits. >http://www.wirelessvideocameras.com/ >http://www.microvideo.ca/ >http://www.rf-links.com/ > >Probably the most time-consuming part of this project would be the equipment selection... > > >Happy building > > >Carlos >CH601-HD, plans > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Rosalie DeMeo >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 10:20:47 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: Test Flight > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo > >I am about two months from finishing N601BD, so I am soliciting thoughts >about the test flight. I am a relatively low hours pilot. With mixed >emotions about it, I am leaning to having someone more experienced make >the first flight. I've read several "first flight" articles, pamphlets >and even a full book about it. What have others done? Safety, of >course is my conern. The distraction of monitoring all those statistics >in a three to five minute tour in the pattern seems like a heavy load. >Any thoughts? > >Brad > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:07 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Brad I just went through the same decision process. This is the second plane I have built. I was very concerned about the first flight on the first plane I built and went with a test pilot. I was glad I did, since when I finally did fly it myself it was a handful for awhile. After 400 hours in homebuilts and a couple of hours familarization in the 601XL I was confident I could make the first flight in my 601XL and I did. If you have any doubts about your capabilities to do the first flight, you probably should not do it. You probably could handle it if everything goes right, but will you keep enough presence of mind when issues occur. My first flight in the XL required significant backpressure to fly level. After a very focused but uneventful landing I ended up readjusting the stab. My second flight had a partial engine power loss, resulting in a short careful flight around the pattern and luckily a landing with no incident. Both issues really get your attention and test your flight capabilities. Hopefully neither you nor your test pilot will have any issues but just be prepared mentally in case of. Happily ,I'm into the 2nd hour of test flying and things are going well. George May 601XL 912s _________________________________________________________________ Use your PC to make calls at very low rates https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:13 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > >But are you allowed to have crew? > > Carlos- I believe the rules specify that other crew can be on board if "they are part of a required crew". I do not think that covers the 601 or 701 George May 601XL 912s _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:00 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega Bill, AS a member of the list membership you are refering to ( Mexican- Cuban- American, beaner, what ever) I told myself that I would not respond to this, because this web forum is just for us guys and gals that work hard during the day, and drink beer ( my brand is Dos X) and build airplanes at night after the kids go to sleep. I will be super brief. The fence according to all my Mexican relatives, (yes we too swam across the river for a job many moons ago), feel the fence is actually a good thing. I know, you are reading this twice thinking "what is this beaner smoking!" but believe it or not My uncle who came across the border with wife in tow in the sixties as well as all my cousins ( too many to list), agree with the fence, becuase it is extremely dangerous to cross and it may prove to save lives, the distance from the border to some of the towns is measured in miles and its hot and dry, and the walk can and has killed many people. The people that truck the families over are also some of the nastiest- meanest people you may run into. So us folks you are trying to defend, and you are talking about, agree about the fence. Hey dude, I think its cool that you can say your peece, that is why we came her right? Its O.K. dude, believe me If we want to get across, trust me we will. Feel free to email me direct, and let the rest of our friends on this email work on some fun and exciting projects. Let us move on. Dos X is a Mexican beer for all you Canadian beer drinkers by the way. It is an acquired taste. Juan Antonio Rodriguez Vega 601 xl Tampa -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Naumuk >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 11:36 AM >To: zenith list >Subject: Zenith-List: Fence > >All- > Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. > I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > > >Jeanne- > There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. >Bill Naumuk >Townville, Pa > Please consider the following: > I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. > The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. > Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? > 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. > 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? > 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). > This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. > Thank you. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:50 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 headset jacks location? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega Thqat is are really cool 801 interior! nice job! I love it! Juan Vega 601 xl do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: LRM >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 10:00 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 headset jacks location? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" > >Normally most put them on the panel right and left sides. However, I >preferred to have mine in the middle behind me. A little more trouble, but >the wires are certainly out of the way. I built a little box that sits >between the seats on top of the luggage compartment. There I have both sets >of jacks, a cigarette lighter, and cabin lights. You can see a picture of >it in the last picture on this page. http://www.skyhawg.com/piano.html. > >Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "RayStL" >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:55 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 headset jacks location? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "RayStL" >> >> Is there a generally accepted place to put pilot/passenger headset jacks >> on the 701? >> >> -------- >> Ray St-Laurent >> 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70685#70685 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 10/27/2006 >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:44 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence Bill, Your remarks about the subject of keeping religious/political views off of this net is the most intelligent thing I have heard anyone say and I agree with you 100% Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL ----- Original Message ----- From: William Condon To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:20 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fence I have learned in life that there are two things that just about every last person in the world has passionate views about - religion and politics. And, for every person we find who agrees with our political/religious view, there is certainly another person who will disagree with that view. The beauty of this list is that we can rest with the knowledge that there is a place where absolutely every last member shares the same view - the view that safely building, flying, and maintaining experimental aircraft is of paramount importance for all who engage in this endeavor. It would be sad, indeed, if we allowed ourselves to divide up along political / religious / national / etc lines. I learn for all of your posts - when I build my aircraft, I want all of you on my team. But, if we allow this list to be a political forum, there is certain to be many of you that will be someplace else when I am ready to ask my questions. Bill C. 0% (due to military orders that have me outside of country) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert stone Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 9:49 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence I thought this was a Zenith-net that was supposed to be about building Zenith airplanes, not a political forum. If you people want to engage in this kind of dialog, do it off net. ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN STARN To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence WRONG....."This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington." The Constitution was written & US military paid the price for "WE THE PEOPLE" NOT "we the world". Sorry but the fence WILL slow down in influx of ILLEGAL ALIENS and it's meant to protect US, not keep us in. Those who came in via Ellis Island were legal immigrants not ILLEGAL ALIENS. KABONG Do Not Archive. (GBA & GWB) ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fence All- Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa Jeanne- There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa Please consider the following: I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. Thank you. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:16 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega here here!, back to plane building! Juan Vega -----Original Message----- >From: robert stone >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 7:09 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence > >Bill, > Your remarks about the subject of keeping religious/political views off of this net is the most intelligent thing I have heard anyone say and I agree with you 100% > >Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx >ZodiacXL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Condon > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:20 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fence > > > I have learned in life that there are two things that just about every last person in the world has passionate views about - religion and politics. And, for every person we find who agrees with our political/religious view, there is certainly another person who will disagree with that view. The beauty of this list is that we can rest with the knowledge that there is a place where absolutely every last member shares the same view - the view that safely building, flying, and maintaining experimental aircraft is of paramount importance for all who engage in this endeavor. > > > > It would be sad, indeed, if we allowed ourselves to divide up along political / religious / national / etc lines. I learn for all of your posts - when I build my aircraft, I want all of you on my team. But, if we allow this list to be a political forum, there is certain to be many of you that will be someplace else when I am ready to ask my questions. > > > > Bill C. > > 0% (due to military orders that have me outside of country) > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert stone > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 9:49 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence > > > > I thought this was a Zenith-net that was supposed to be about building Zenith airplanes, not a political forum. If you people want to engage in this kind of dialog, do it off net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: JOHN STARN > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:28 AM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence > > > > WRONG....."This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington." > > The Constitution was written & US military paid the price for "WE THE PEOPLE" NOT "we the world". Sorry but the fence WILL slow down in influx of ILLEGAL ALIENS and it's meant to protect US, not keep us in. > > Those who came in via Ellis Island were legal immigrants not ILLEGAL ALIENS. > > KABONG Do Not Archive. (GBA & GWB) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Naumuk > > To: zenith list > > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:36 AM > > Subject: Zenith-List: Fence > > > > All- > > Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our list membership. > > I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated! > > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > > > > > > Jeanne- > > There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly direct this submission. Thanks. > > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa > > Please consider the following: > > I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion. > > The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what chance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a blatant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no better than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of the country. > > Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government was responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire. Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the American Empire? > > 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security. > > 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada. Are we going to fence off Canada, too? > > 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for less than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, Polish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the same, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships). > > This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington. Don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong. > > Thank you. > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:53 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD accident I saw Don Copeland at the airport today. He was sitting there staring at remains of his plane, trying to figure out what he could have done different to make the outcome be better. Good thing is that everyone walked away. His injuries were only minor. He seems more depressed than anything. I think he'll be ok as he says he wants another one. He seemed to be amazed at how well the plane took the beating and not the occupants. All of the damage is on the left side where he had hit some posts in the ground. The 3 blade prop only had one blade left. The left main gear broke at the weld. The bungee on both mains appeared to have broken. The left wing was damaged near the tip. The horizontal stab tip was gone, and it appears that stabilizer mounts were broken too. We pulled the engine through and there is a definite loss of compression on one of the cylinders. The seatbelt attachments were still intact. Don said the FAA was coming to pick up his plane next week. It appears they are going to seize the plane. While I would be wiling to participate in an accident investigation, I'd be hot over them taking the plane away. I guess it really doesn't matter since the insurance totaled it. I know insurance will take it if it has been totaled. That's generally the agreement for them paying you for the value of the plane, but I didn't know the FAA could just seize it. This plane is registered as an HD, but was the first prototype for the HDS. Don had just bought it a couple of months ago. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 n282rs at earthlink.net >>Built by David Taylor, registered to >>Donald E Copeland on 9-27-2006. >>Any information besides this? >>IDENTIFICATION >>Regis#: 143DT Make/Model: EXP Description: ZODIAC 601HD EXP >>Date: 10/21/2006 Time: 2130 >>Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N >>Damage: Destroyed ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:44 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Of course my 601XL requires two crew members - I have dual sticks! :-) -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of george may Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > >But are you allowed to have crew? > > Carlos- I believe the rules specify that other crew can be on board if "they are part of a required crew". I do not think that covers the 601 or 701 George May 601XL 912s _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us &hmtagline ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:44 PM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence I agree with Bill C.---- I am having all I can do to keep quiet on the "Fen ce" issue but will continue not to give my opinion of how I feel about the subject, but; I feel the original post was out of line for this forum----- ---- let's use this site for "airplane talk".=0AFritz 90/90 Corvair=0A =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: William Condon =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 5:2 0:09 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: Fence=0A=0A=0AI have learned in life th at there are two things that just about every last person in the world has passionate views about ' religion and politics. And, for every person we find who agrees with our political/religious view, there is certainly anot her person who will disagree with that view. The beauty of this list is th at we can rest with the knowledge that there is a place where absolutely ev ery last member shares the same view ' the view that safely building, fly ing, and maintaining experimental aircraft is of paramount importance for a ll who engage in this endeavor.=0A =0AIt would be sad, indeed, if we allowe d ourselves to divide up along political / religious / national / etc lines . I learn for all of your posts ' when I build my aircraft, I want all o f you on my team. But, if we allow this list to be a political forum, ther e is certain to be many of you that will be someplace else when I am ready to ask my questions.=0A =0ABill C.=0A0% (due to military orders that have m e outside of country)=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-zenith-list-server@matroni cs.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert stone=0ASent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 9:49 PM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronic s.com=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence=0A =0A I thought this was a Zen ith-net that was supposed to be about building Zenith airplanes, not a poli tical forum. If you people want to engage in this kind of dialog, do it of f net.=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: JOHN STARN =0ATo: zenith-lis t@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:28 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence=0A =0AWRONG....."This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed peopl e throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington . "=0AThe Constitution was written & US military paid the price for "WE THE P EOPLE" NOT "we the world". Sorry but the fence WILL slow down in influx o f ILLEGAL ALIENS and it's meant to protect US, not keep us in.=0AThose who came in via Ellis Island were legal immigrants not ILLEGAL ALIENS.=0A KABON G Do Not Archive. (GBA & GWB)=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Bill Naumuk =0ATo: zenith list =0ASent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:36 AM=0ASu bject: Zenith-List: Fence=0A =0AAll-=0A Attached is a letter to the our local paper's editor. I don't think this is an off-list topic, due to our l ist membership. =0A I'm not ashamed, I'm infuriated!=0ABill Naumuk=0AHDS Fuselage=0ATownville , Pa=0A =0A =0AJeanne-=0A There is no link on your website for editorial contributions, but I figured you could correctly dir ect this submission. Thanks.=0ABill Naumuk=0ATownville , Pa=0A Please co nsider the following:=0A I'm normally apolitical, but the recent actions of the incumbent administration mandate my humble, dissenting opinion.=0A The fence between Mexico and the US is a farce. The Great Wall of China, with it's watchtowers manned by archers failed to stop the Mongols- what c hance does 760 miles of chain link fence have? Erecting such a fence is a b latant waste of taxpayer dollars, and a slap in the face to our people who are dying to protect basic ideals that are being circumvented for political reasons. If this decision isn't reversed immediately, you and I are no bet ter than the Nazis on trial at Nuremburg. The disgusting thing is, both parties allowed this atrocity of a law to pass! This only proves that our "Representatives" represent only themselves, and to Hell with the rest of t he country.=0A Bureaucracy has taken over. Self-sustaining government wa s responsible for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the British Empire . Are we witnessing the rise and fall of the America n Empire? =0A 1. The label Department of Homeland Security makes me gag. Too close to "Fatherland" Security.=0A 2. The 911 bombers came into the country through Canada . Are we going to fence off Canada , too?=0A 3. We're trying to keep out hardworking people who are willing to work for les s than US citizens. Most of us are the decendents of the Italians, Irish, P olish, and Russians who were welcomed in through Ellis Island and did the s ame, then died in WWII fighting to protect the right to the "American Dream ." (Not to mention those brought against their will on slave ships).=0A This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constituti on, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than th e "Misrepresentatives" in Washington . Don't think in terms of Republican o r Democrat, think in terms of right or wrong.=0A Thank you. =0A =0A =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matro n=0A =0A =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http: ================0A=0A ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:21 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fence --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" OK, let's discuss something non-controversial - like Y-stick vs. dual sticks :-) -- Craig do not archive ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:18 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega Dudes and dudettes, If your wife helps build the plane or, partner to be PC, if you can show the DAR proof with pictures, you can fly with that other person since they are also deamed the manufacturer. Good flying joke below sent yesterday from 95 year old Grandfather with 10,000 hours under his belt. see below DO NOT ARCHIVE A tourist walked into a pet store and was looking at the animals on display. While he was there, a Chief Master Sergeant (CMSGT) from the local airfield walked in and said to the shopkeeper, "I'll take a maintenance monkey, please." The man nodded, went to a cage at the side of the store and took out a monkey. He put a collar and leash on the animal and handed it the CMSGT, saying, "That'll be $5,000." The CMSGT paid and left with the monkey. Surprised, the tourist went to the shopkeeper and said, "That was a very expensive monkey. Most of them are only a few hundred dollars. Why did that one cost so much?" The shopkeeper answered, "Ah, that was a maintenance monkey. He can rig aircraft flight controls, score 95 on the AF CDC test, perform the duties of any MX officer with no back talk or complaints. It's well worth the money." The tourist spotted a monkey in another cage. "That one's even more expensive-- $10,000! What does it do?" "Oh, that one is a 'Maintenance Supervisor' monkey! It can instruct at all levels of maintenance, supervise maintenance at the unit, intermediate and Depot level, and even do most of the paperwork. A very useful monkey indeed," replied the shopkeeper. The tourist looked around a little longer and found a third monkey in a cage. The price tag read, "$100,000." The shocked tourist exclaimed, "That one costs more than all the others put together! What in the world could it do?" "Well, I've never actually seen him do anything but drink beer and play with his dick, but his papers say he's a pilot!" Juan DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 7:42 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >Of course my 601XL requires two crew members - I have dual sticks! :-) > >-- Craig > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of george may >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:54 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > > >> >But are you allowed to have crew? >> > > >Carlos- > I believe the rules specify that other crew can be on board if "they are >part of a required crew". I do not think that covers the 601 or 701 > >George May >601XL 912s > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free >trip! >http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us >&hmtagline > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:17 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? I asked my local FSDO this exact same question before I flew the 'Beast" . Their response was, "if a second persen is needed to safely perform th e first flight then a crew is approved". They had followed my building p rocess and was aware of N801BH's unique powerplant. My final decision wa s to fly it myself in case it broke in half, that way I would be the onl y fatality. Your local FAA office probably will have a different decisio n. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "george may" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > >But are you allowed to have crew? > > Carlos- I believe the rules specify that other crew can be on board if "they are part of a required crew". I do not think that covers the 601 or 701 George May 601XL 912s _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a fre e trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale= en-us&hmtagline ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

I asked my local FSDO this exact same question before I flew th e 'Beast". Their response was, "if a second persen is needed to safely p erform the first flight then a crew is approved". They had followed my b uilding process and was aware of N801BH's unique powerplant. My fin al decision was to fly it myself in case it broke in half, that way I wo uld be the only fatality. Your local FAA office probably will have a dif ferent decision.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "george may" <gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM>& nbsp;wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by:  "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>


> ; >But are you allowed to have cre w?
> >

Carlos-
   I believe& nbsp;the rules specify that other crew can  be on board if "they are 
part&nb sp;of a required crew".  I do not&nbs p;think that covers the 601 or 701

George May
601XL 912s

______________________________ ___________________________________
Add a Yahoo! conta ct to Windows Live Messenger for a ch ance to win a free 
trip! 
http://ww w.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&am ======================== sp;         - The  p;Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:38 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega since I fly with my wife, she is a right hand seat driver, hence why God created cars with a wheel on one side, not a wheel in the middle! I put in stick(s) but don't tell her, I do like the y stick. do not archive Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 7:42 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >Of course my 601XL requires two crew members - I have dual sticks! :-) > >-- Craig > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of george may >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 4:54 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test Flight - crew? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > > >> >But are you allowed to have crew? >> > > >Carlos- > I believe the rules specify that other crew can be on board if "they are >part of a required crew". I do not think that covers the 601 or 701 > >George May >601XL 912s > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free >trip! >http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us >&hmtagline > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:46 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: More Spam, Randy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Randy, Your post concerning the HD/Don Copeland landed in my Earthlink "Known Spam" box. I've not changed any of my settings. Possibly the problem is those fine folks at Earthlink who constantly tweak their stuff.....geeks just can't stand to let a good thing continue. If this continues I may drop my service with them. I've had the two-way sat thing four or five years and it gets slower and slooooower and s l o o .... Just thought you'd like to know what happened to this one you sent via Earthlunk. Sure glad we got the fence issue settled. Did we use green or yellow primer? Regards, Zed And please do not archive under penalty of water-boarding. ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:22 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y stick vs. Duel stick Yeah, nothing has the fine feel of that stick between your knees as the speed picks up and you touch the rudder to keep her centered. Then when the LRI says green a little back pressure and BANG your climbing and still gaining speed. You push the stick forward a little to look over the nose just to make sure some dammed fool isn't landing with the wind and now the speed is climbing past 130. Just as the end of the strip flashes past you see the altitude is climbing thru 800 ft so you bank left to enter the pattern. Yes sir, the feel and control of the duel stick makes every last and every next control input a sensual pleasure. Flying with a Y stick in the center is like holding hands with your sister. Best regards, from Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 N505WP 93 Great Hours ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:38 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Pet Store Tale --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Juan!!!!! You win!!!!! Regards, Zed please do not archive ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" There aren't that many things you will need to be watching when you do your first flight. Did you have cameras in the cockpit when you first soloed? I think you time and money would better be spent either going somewhere and flying a plane like yours or if you just must have gadgets setting up warning lights for out of nominal instruments. That said I think the idea of a video camera set up to shoot the panel and and your control inputs isn't such a bad idea. But, there's no reason to be sending this data to someone on the ground. The time spent with them figuring out what they are seeing and discussing it with you would probably end up with a smoking hole. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70790#70790 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:07 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y stick vs. Duel stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega Dude, So true. Let me take a cold shower after that description. Juan DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- >From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com >Sent: Oct 28, 2006 8:16 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y stick vs. Duel stick > >Yeah, nothing has the fine feel of that stick between your knees as the speed >picks up and you touch the rudder to keep her centered. Then when the LRI >says green a little back pressure and BANG your climbing and still gaining speed. >You push the stick forward a little to look over the nose just to make sure >some dammed fool isn't landing with the wind and now the speed is climbing past >130. Just as the end of the strip flashes past you see the altitude is >climbing thru 800 ft so you bank left to enter the pattern. Yes sir, the feel and >control of the duel stick makes every last and every next control input a >sensual pleasure. Flying with a Y stick in the center is like holding hands >with your sister. >Best regards, from Bill of Georgia >601XL-3300 >N505WP >93 Great Hours ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Test Flight - crew? From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" If you document that the aircraft requires a crew of two you will never be able to fly it alone. Call the EAA or the FSDO. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70791#70791 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD accident From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" I'm surprised the FAA wants the plane considering there were no fatalities. Has the DAR that singed the plane off had any other planes crash within the last couple of years? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70793#70793 ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:12 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Heck, with a wireless camera, an RC transmitter and the right servos why send a pilot up at all? (just like that recent video of the RC plane with the camera in it) But I guess it is illegal to test fly an 800 pound RC airplane. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:48 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence retraction --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Bill, Please don't take the remarks so hard. We need you and your airplane in this forum. We like the things you bring to the table. It makes life interesting and worth while. This is a help center for aircraft and the people that build them. I can't begin to satisfy all the views on other subjects in the Zenith-List because we have enough trouble with the problems of building. I apologize for sounding so terse, but this forum is the only place my mind finds the solace between friends and projects. Do stay with the group and finish the plane with us. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > My apologies for considering the international members of this > list, and forgetting to add "Do not archive" to my posting. > Over and out- permanently. > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > >* > >* > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:53 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD accident --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" I don't know. He had bought the plane from someone else a couple of months ago. I assume he bought it from David Taylor who is the orginal builder. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 n282rs at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD accident --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" I'm surprised the FAA wants the plane considering there were no fatalities. Has the DAR that singed the plane off had any other planes crash within the last couple of years? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70793#70793 ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:56 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD accident --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Randy, when do you hope to be back in the air? Or is that a sore subject? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:03 PM PST US From: Arthur Olechowski Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Scratch vs Sub-Kits? Hi All, The only time I posted a message on this list was to sell my 701 rudder kit...well I'm glad to say... it didn't sell, because I'm back to building! I want to say this list is the best resource ever. Everyone is really supportive and full of so much knowledge. My 701 plans are in route and I'm trying to determine if I want to scratch build or go the sub-kit route. So before I start researching and get analysis paralysis, does anyone out there building a 701 from scratch have a good idea what the airframe materials costed in total? I've visited Jon Crokes 701 site, excellent site by the way and found a list of materials, layout patterns and so forth but nothing on approximate cost savings when compared to purchasing the sub-kits. Also I see that Zen is now CNC machining some of there parts, has anyone had an assembly issues with the pre-drilled holes in any of there parts? The first thing I noticed when working on the rudder is the edge distances are hard to maintain. In school I was taught 2-4D and been able to comply, thus far, but I'm concerned that this may rule may become extinct once I purchase pre-drilled parts. Thanks for your time. Art 701/Rudder in-work/Plans/KS ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:58 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fence I Agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In a message dated 10/28/2006 12:29:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jhstarn@verizon.net writes: WRONG....."This time, you and I as Americans have to step up and defend the Constitution, written to protect oppressed people throughout the world rather than the "Misrepresentatives" in Washington." The Constitution was written & US military paid the price for "WE THE PEOPLE" NOT "we the world". Sorry but the fence WILL slow down in influx of ILLEGAL ALIENS and it's meant to protect US, not keep us in. Those who came in via Ellis Island were legal immigrants not ILLEGAL ALIENS. KABONG Do Not Archive. (GBA & GWB) ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:43 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Test Flight - an opportunity to play with gadgets! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Actually, I don't think there is any limit to the weight of a legal R/C airplane. On the other hand, you will need to keep it in sight to maintain control, and (frankly) I have always found it a lot easier to fly from the cockpit than from the ground with a transmitter. On the subject of instructors in the plane during phase I testing, I am sure this is a no no. I have heard of examples where the inspector/DAR has approved a two man crew for testing but this would need to be approved on a case by case basis. The only times I have heard of this it was a husband and wife team. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 05:38 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >Heck, with a wireless camera, an RC transmitter and the right servos why >send a pilot up at all? (just like that recent video of the RC plane with >the camera in it) But I guess it is illegal to test fly an 800 pound RC >airplane. > >-- Craig > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:28 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Scratch vs Sub-Kits? Hi Art, I am building a 601 from subkits, but I feel it is likely the same issues appear on the 701. First let me say I feel the decision to build from plans or kit is a big one and I think it would be wise to make this decision on your own feelings about the tasks to be done rather than on the price difference. While it seems like you can save some money by building from scratch, you pick up so many additional tasks compared to building from kit that you must count your own time and effort as worthless to say you really save any cost. Some people really love scratch building and to them I say: "Have a ball". For others, the goal of getting airborne in a reasonable amount of time may be worth allowing ZAC to track down the materials, do the more difficult tasks including bending long pieces of aluminum, solid rivet setting, and welding steel parts. On the subject of pre-drilled parts, I have a rather negative pile of experience. The pre-drilled parts I have received have not lived up to the same standards of excellence I would expect if I had done the drilling myself. This may improve with the new equipment, but there are still big problems to overcome. For example, on a wing where the ribs and rear channel are not pre-drilled but the skins are drilled you face the issue of matching your position for the ribs to the position assumed when the skins were drilled. They will certainly not match, and you will have to find a way to average out all the position errors to stay within the edge distance requirements. It can be done, but I found it easier to order the skins for my third wing (after having to scrap the first one) without the holes drilled so I could put them in exactly the right places myself. I really have a problem with the hole drilling ZAC does, mainly because the holes don't show up on the plans. I would much prefer they followed the industry standard of the drawings being the "Gospel" rather than adding value by drilling holes where they think they might be useful instead of shipping parts that match the drawings. In any event, I wish you luck with your project. Paul XL fuselage At 08:48 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote: >Hi All, >The only time I posted a message on this list was to sell my 701 >rudder kit...well I'm glad to say... it didn't sell, because I'm >back to building! I want to say this list is the best resource >ever. Everyone is really supportive and full of so much knowledge. > >My 701 plans are in route and I'm trying to determine if I want to >scratch build or go the sub-kit route. So before I start >researching and get analysis paralysis, does anyone out there >building a 701 from scratch have a good idea what the airframe >materials costed in total? I've visited Jon Crokes 701 site, >excellent site by the way and found a list of materials, layout >patterns and so forth but nothing on approximate cost savings when >compared to purchasing the sub-kits. > >Also I see that Zen is now CNC machining some of there parts, has >anyone had an assembly issues with the pre-drilled holes in any of >there parts? The first thing I noticed when working on the rudder is >the edge distances are hard to maintain. In school I was taught >2-4D and been able to comply, thus far, but I'm concerned that this >may rule may become extinct once I purchase pre-drilled parts. > > >Thanks for your time. >Art >701/Rudder in-work/Plans/KS > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:13 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Scratch vs Sub-Kits? Art, I did the math a long time ago and determined that I could save about $7-8K by scratch building (701), I cheat however as this is my 4th homebuilt and have a hanger full of all the tools needed plus shear, brake, Tig, etc etc. It took me about a month(part time)to build the "kit" (including forms). Pretty good wages!! I get pretty amused at all the posts from builders having dimension problems with parts that came in the kit. That is NOT an issue if scratch building. Scratch building DOES have it's own set of snags , the 701 is pretty straight forward however, a LOT easier than my first project ,an RV3 built in the dark ages. 26 pages of drawings, 13 pages of instructions and no internet. Al hadn't invented it yet. 'Course if you got stuck and had to call, Van answered the phone and knew you and his brother Jerry would stop in and help build if he had a layover close by. Doubt if Dick answers the phone anymore. LOW&SLOW John My 701 plans are in route and I'm trying to determine if I want to scratch build or go the sub-kit route. So before I start researching and get analysis paralysis, does anyone out there building a 701 from scratch have a good idea what the airframe materials costed in total? I've visited Jon Crokes 701 site, excellent site by the way and found a list of materials, layout patterns and so forth but nothing on approximate cost savings when compared to purchasing the sub-kits. ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fence From: "TxDave" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" What color Scotch-Brite do I use to clean the metal posts on my fence? Also, I was thinking of installing a new engine on my riding lawnmower. The grass near my fence needs mowing badly, but I can't decide if I shoul go with a Rotax 912 or a Corvair conversion. Please, don't shoot! Just a lame attempt at humor from an overworked and underpaid old man. I love this forum. do not archive Dave Clay Temple, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70832#70832 ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:10 PM PST US From: Rosalie DeMeo Subject: Zenith-List: Test Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rosalie DeMeo Thanks for the responses regarding the upcoming first test flight in my 601xl. I should mention that I have 5.5 hours in 4 different Zodiac XL's. The last 2.9 hours were in Dragonfly's 601xl for my bienniel flight review. The others were demo flights. So I do have some time in the design and feel comfortable in the plane, subject to more time and experience. In fact, I love the plane! The first demo flight resulted in the decision to buy a 601xl kit. I like the idea of flying with a recorder for verbal observations. These suggestions have been great advice. Please continue with your thoughts. They are greatly appreciateed. Brad