Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:08 AM - Re: fuel pressure gauge (Rick R)
2. 03:37 AM - Re: Fuel pump - gascolator (Tim Verthein)
3. 07:55 AM - Fw: Bonnets (Bill Naumuk)
4. 08:07 AM - Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, California on Nov 4th (Juan Vega)
5. 08:17 AM - Re: Van's RV-12 LSA first flights (Edward Moody II)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: New thread, sticky subject (Juan Vega)
7. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: , sticky subject (Juan Vega)
8. 09:33 AM - Bonnets, part II (Bill Naumuk)
9. 09:49 AM - Fresh Air (Jaybannist@cs.com)
10. 10:26 AM - Re: Bonnets (Gig Giacona)
11. 10:28 AM - Re: fuel pressure gauge (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
12. 11:43 AM - 601XL/J3300 range and duration? (Craig Payne)
13. 11:44 AM - Re: Fw: Bonnets (Steve Hulland)
14. 12:27 PM - Re: Fresh Air (Craig Payne)
15. 12:50 PM - Looking for Zenith 601 project. (Tom Bovington)
16. 02:37 PM - xxx Re: 701 amphibious floats (David X)
17. 03:18 PM - Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, California on Nov 4th (Jim Hoak)
18. 03:37 PM - Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, California on Nov 4th (Craig Payne)
19. 04:21 PM - Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash/ fuel pump location? (Big Gee)
20. 04:49 PM - Re: Bonnets (Tim & Diane Shankland)
21. 05:35 PM - Re: Fresh Air (Jaybannist@cs.com)
22. 05:41 PM - Re: Fw: Bonnets (Bill Naumuk)
23. 06:17 PM - CJ701 Dual Brakes (Ken Arnold)
24. 07:19 PM - Re: Fresh air (MaxNr@aol.com)
25. 09:08 PM - Re: Van's RV-12 LSA first flights (JOHN STARN)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure gauge |
Dave
Like Scott, but mine is a 701 w/ Geo conversion. Here's the link:
http://www.n701rr.com/Engine/Engine2/engine40.JPG
do not archive
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump - gascolator |
The one in my Corvair car is a Purolator/ Facet part # PRO 12S it
provides 4-7 psi fuel pressure. The one installed now says Purolator on
it, the new spare I carry says Facet, but they're identical. Available
at most auto parts stores for about $40. They call it a "Universal
replacement" for domestic cars, there another....I think the 42S which
looks the same but has more pressure and is listed for import
applications. They're basically cubes with inlet/outlet line
connections and ground and positive wires.
Tim in Bovey
Time: 02:46:33 PM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel pump - gascolator
Which pump do you use?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Verthein"
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 4:20 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel pump - gascolator
>
>
> Wow! Something I have a *little* experience with anyway....
>
> The Facet fuel pumps are the same as Purolator fuel pumps (I'm not
sure
> if it was a name change or company buy out or what) and they are
often
> used on Corvair CARS.
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Message 3
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From: Bill Naumuk
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Bonnets
Carlos-
The bonnets are getting under the rivets and self destructing. I
figure even a thou or so clearance is enough to grab the fibers when
they're being driven in at the max recommended 2000 RPM. I'm probably
running more in the 600-800RPM range.
Let's face it, no matter how perpendicular you try to hold a
riveter, the rivet's still going to be set at a slight angle, creating a
little gap on one side. There are only a handful of planes that are
built using blind rivets, and I'm sure the Nuvite procedure was created
for standard, driven rivets. It comes down to simple physics. Standard
rivets are DRIVEN, while blind rivets are PULLED. A slight gap is
inevitable with blind rivets.
The problem only shows up when you're using a rotary polisher-
orbitals aren't such a problem.
My immediate solution is to avoid the rivets when using the rotary
polisher and F9. I've done a half decent job through grade C, and am
going straight to Nuvite recommended flannel over a wool bonnet for
grade S. Flannel doesn't have the "Hairs" to get caught. Much cheaper
than a bonnet, too. My wife got me a square yard from Wal-Mart for
$1.00. For the next panel I polish, I'm going to try flannel over wool
on my rotary polisher, tucking the flannel under the elastic band and
safety-pinning it.
Soon as I'm done answering my e-mails, I'm going out to see what
grade S/ flannel over wool and my orbital results in.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: naumuk@alltel.net
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:12 PM
Subject: Bonnets
Hello, Bill
When I built my riveted fuel tanks, I used Cherry Q rivets.
Some of them, after popped, left a tiny bit of the stem protruding
above the rivet formed head.
If I were to polish the tanks (no, I don't think I will...), whatever
went over those rivet heads (short of Superman's old t-shirt) would be
shredded quickly.
Would you be having a similar problem?
If not, a possible fix would be a padding of sponge between the bonnet
and the disk. Maybe.
Good luck
Carlos
On 18/11/06, Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
Polishers-
I'm having no luck using my rotary polisher- bonnet life is
nonexistant. All I have to do is go over a rivet and I'm done for.
Bonnet shreds in no time. God help you if you catch a sheet metal edge-
bonnet shreds immediately.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, California |
on Nov 4th
one interesting observation i see in the van vs. zenith is usefull load differences..
Vans for its' LSA certifitication looks like a beefier plane, and a little
more complex build as well. definitely will not be a 400 assembly plane.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Nov 18, 2006 6:16 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, California
on Nov 4th
>
>
>(Nothing on the NTSB web site yet about Jim's fatal crash)
>
>http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 061115X01677&key=1
>
>NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
>14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
>Accident occurred Saturday, November 04, 2006 in Yuba City, CA
>Aircraft: Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, registration: N158MD
>Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>completed.
>
>On November 4, 2006, about 1139 Pacific standard time, an Aircraft
>Manufacturing & Development Co., CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, experienced an
>in-flight breakup while cruising approximately 8 nautical miles south of
>Yuba City, California. The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot, who
>was a co-owner of the airplane, and a passenger were fatally injured. Visual
>meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The
>flight was performed under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91, and it
>originated from Lincoln, California, about 1129.
>
>A ground-based witness reported hearing the airplane as it approached his
>location. The witness stated that the airplane's engine was "missing" and
>its power was "on and off." Seconds later the witness heard the sound of an
>explosion and observed the center section of the airplane falling straight
>down.
>
>All of the airplane's structural components were located in adjacent open
>fields during the National Transportation Safety Board's on-scene
>investigation. The wreckage consisted of the following components, which
>were separated from each other: left wing (without aileron); right wing
>(with aileron); main landing gear assembly; cockpit, engine with attached
>propeller blades; aileron (left wing); and empennage. There was no evidence
>of oil spray on any of the components, and there was no evidence of fire.
>
>The wreckage has been recovered and detailed airframe and engine
>examinations are ongoing.
><end>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Van's RV-12 LSA first flights |
I like the panel. I'm using that EFIS/EIS unit and I wish I had the
budget for two like this airplane has.
I heard a rumor that Van asked someone on the ramp, "Does this photo
angle make my tail look big?"
Ed Moody II
Do Not Archive
Do Not let anyone photograph your tail from a bad angle.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Van's RV-12 LSA first flights
<craig@craigandjean.com>
www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int3.htm
Does the tail look big to others?
www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12runup2_lg.jpg
The RV-12 has one interesting feature although it may just be for the
test
aircraft: a canopy jettison lever. Look below the Dynon in this photo:
www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12_full_panel_lg.jpg
Note the brake levers on the sticks: no differential braking - at
least in
the prototype.
Note the N-number: N912VA. I still like my XL especially since I get
to
choose what engine I put in it.
-- Craig
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New thread, sticky subject |
keep in mind every time you fly commerical, all the wings are glued together with
the same glue described earlier on the planes you are flying in.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
>Sent: Nov 17, 2006 10:51 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New thread, sticky subject
>
>
>I don't know I think it would be kinda fun taking off in a glued together
>601.... If you did somehow manage to get it airborne and got some altitude and
>speed up you could wait for the last piece to fall off then parachute back to
>earth ... providing you didn't glue your parachute together.....come to think
>of it........
>If you dont want to see rivets buck them
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>In a message dated 11/16/2006 3:29:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Hi Paul,
>
>I guess you are expecting someone to come along and pop your balloon
>about substituting glue for rivets on a CH designed metal
>airplane. I would not want you to be disappointed.
>
>While there are indeed many advances in adhesives, there is still no
>Substitute for good engineering. The kits (and plans) we are
>building are integrated designs which do not lend themselves to major
>redesign of one part without analyzing the impact on the rest of the parts.
>
>Even if the glued joints are stronger than rivets, there is the
>possibility they will deteriorate very quickly when exposed to real
>world conditions like heat, vibration, UV light, chemicals, air
>pollution, and who knows what.
>
>My suggestion to you is if you want to glue a plane together then
>find one of the many wood plane designs or plans for the BD-1 or its
>brethren.
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>do not archive
>
>
>At 11:37 AM 11/16/2006, you wrote:
>> Does anybody know what the operating life of a bond is, with the
>> hi-tech adhesives? Do we know anything about the flowability of any
>> of the metal-to-metal bonds? Is there anything out there that has a
>> specific affinity to aluminum? Do we have any knowledge of how long
>> to cure any of the H-T adhesives? How hard do we gotta squeeze to
>> get permanent bonding? What would be a good place on a Zenith to
>> try bonding? (my first thought is the interior seams on ailerons,
>> flaps, and wingtips.) Hhhmmmm---Wouldn't a 601 look cool with no rivets?
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: , sticky subject |
I am using Proseal in my tanks as a seal for the sender unit. works great. Air
inlets for the cabin are prosealed as well so no rivet line holding the intake.
Works great, just messy. CLean the parts with thinner.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>Sent: Nov 17, 2006 9:08 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: , sticky subject
>
>Re: Adhesive for alum:
>I repaired a couple of wing tanks on my RV3 a couple of yrs ago, I built these
tanks in the mid 70's and used Proseal and rivets. When taking them apart
I drilled out the rivets and intended to just pop the parts loose from each other.
NOT!!
>
>The alum would TEAR (025 and032) before the proseal let go, I was amazed at the
peel strength of the stuff. This airplane has over 2000 hrs and is painted brown
so it gets pretty warm in the Texas sun sitting on the beach. I live (RWJ
Airpark) less than a mile from salt water and 10 miles from the largest refinery
in the country so it gets plenty of humidity and pollution.
>I have no clue what point I'm trying to make other than if I had to build an alum
airplane and use no rivets I would vote for Proseal or one of it's cousins.
It's also a LOT of fun to put on.
>LOW&SLOW John
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Bonnets, part II |
All-
Mean ol' mister physics at work again. Centrifugal force is too much
for flannel held on the rotary with safety pins. I had a feeling that
would happen. No problem tucking flannel under the elastic of an
orbital.
Found a supplier of ready-made flannel bonnets on the net-
DoCare.com, a Canadian company. Not a bad price at $3.78/e, probably
4.99 Canadian with the exchange rate. Supposed to be used for final
stage- we'll see whether they work for the primary stage.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 9
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On the 601XL, with the NACA fresh air intakes installed where ZAC shows them,
a duct would have to be severely contorted to get to outlets mounted directly
on the instrument panel. Mounting the outlets below the panel, next to the sidewall
will definitely intrude on my knee space. Yes, with my keen 20-20 hindsight,
I know I should have mounted the scoops above where ZAC shows them, but
at this point, I can't replace the side skins. Has anyone mounted the outlets
directly on the outlet of the plastic intake shroud? It would probably require
a mounting plate, fastened to that adjacent vertical angle (the one that is
curved at the lower end). Is that feasible? If it is, which outlet model would
work best?
Jay in Dallas
Message 10
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Just make sure it isn't green flannel.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
[quote="naumuk(at)alltel.net"]From: Bill Naumuk (naumuk@alltel.net)
To: Carlos Sa (carlossa52@gmail.com)
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Bonnets
Carlos-
The bonnets are getting under the rivets and self destructing. I figure even
a thou or so clearance is enough to grab the fibers when they're being driven
in at the max recommended 2000 RPM. I'm probably running more in the 600-800RPM
range.
Let's face it, no matter how perpendicular you try to hold a riveter, the
rivet's still going to be set at a slight angle, creating a little gap on one
side. There are only a handful of planes that are built using blind rivets,
and I'm sure the Nuvite procedure was created for standard, driven rivets. It
comes down to simple physics. Standard rivets are DRIVEN, while blind rivets
are PULLED. A slight gap is inevitable with blind rivets.
The problem only shows up when you're using a rotary polisher- orbitals aren't
such a problem.
My immediate solution is to avoid the rivets when using the rotary polisher
and F9. I've done a half decent job through grade C, and am going straight
to Nuvite recommended flannel over a wool bonnet for grade S. Flannel doesn't
have the "Hairs" to get caught. Much cheaper than a bonnet, too. My wife got
me a square yard from Wal-Mart for $1.00. For the next panel I polish, I'm
going to try flannel over wool on my rotary polisher, tucking the flannel under
the elastic band and safety-pinning it.
Soon as I'm done answering my e-mails, I'm going out to see what grade S/
flannel over wool and my orbital results in.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75637#75637
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure gauge |
I don't know if anyone has said anything about this on the list, but you can
buy a diaphragm that goes outside the firewall and the oil or gas coming
from the line stops at that point. On the other side of the diaphragm it is
filled with veggie oil and when the pressure pushes the diaphragm it in turn puts
pressure on the veggie oil and makes the gauge work. So if you had a
ruptured line from the firewall back you might get 1 oz. of veggie oil on your
paints but no gas or engine oil. They use this setup in race cars all the time.
Not saying it is right or wrong just saying it is a different way of doing it
so don't jump on me for the post.
Jeff
Message 12
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| Subject: | 601XL/J3300 range and duration? |
Can anyone flying an XL with a Jabiru 3300 with the economy tuning setup
provide some range and endurance figures? Please specify if you have the
standard 12 or the 15 gallons extended range tanks. Knowing what prop you
are spinning would help too.
Thanks!
Craig
Message 13
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Carlos,
Your problem is interesting. I am polishing about 1/3 of my airplane - the
remainder will be painted. I have used the C9 with a Nuvite wool bonnet
mounted on a Dewalt 1/2" VSR Drill. I operate the drill at full speed when
compounding the airplane. I generally use each bonnet at least 8 or nine
times before there is any significant degrading. Apply dabs of C9, compound
and repeat a couple of times. Rake bonnet as required. Never use another
grade with that bonnet. Follow C9 by compounding with lessor grade, then use
the orbital polisher with same grade, followed by orbital with Nuvite S and
a final hand polish. I use fleece and microfiber for everything after
compounding. Works very well and I do not go through bonnets very fast. Oh!
I do clean bonnets by letting them soak in a solution of Tide concentrate
and water for 24 hours, then put them through the washing machine with two
extra rinses. Keeps bonnets in great shape. Some of the aluminum on my
airplane was purchased and worked as long ago as 1986. As you might imagine,
there are lots of scratches, etc. When the polish job is complete, it looks
very very good. Throughout the initial process I attempt to have the bonnet
moving in a direction that does not cause it to catch metal edges, but go
over them. Getting some really nice comments from folks who stop by and see
what I am doing. I just don't have a problem polishing over the pulled rivet
heads. I do not press down very hard, but I do press down. Cannot see where
this may or may not help you, but thought you might like to know my results.
*
*
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
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Message 14
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>From what I have seen it is fairly common to mount the vents right on the
ducts. AMD does this although they appear to build a metal plenum over the
duct. See the attached picture.
I take it things are so tight that you can't reach the panel with a tight
S-bend?
Can you reach the end of the NACA duct to adjust a vent mounted there when
in flight?
Anyway Aircraft Spruce has an adapter (p/n 13-00833) which bolts to the back
of any vent and gives you a 2 inch diameter flange. You should be able to
couple this directly to the 2 inch outlet of the NACA duct. It is the second
item from the top in the left column on this catalog page:
www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07190.pdf
The vent just below it (p/n 05-00779) would work nicely with it without
having a corner to catch your leg.
-- Craig
Message 15
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| Subject: | Looking for Zenith 601 project. |
Hi Folks - I'm looking for a 601 project at any point of completion. Please
contact me with any information. Thank you and happy flying.
Tom Bovington
406-227-6792
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: xxx Re: 701 amphibious floats |
Perhaps off topic, but the FAA allows additional weight increase for floats (at
least as it pertains to light-sport). If you're worried about legalities, you
need some sort of statement from the manufacture that allows an increase in gross
weight when floats are added.
Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift
that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:
(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than
(i) 660 pounds (300 kilograms) for lighter-than-air aircraft;
(ii) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water;
or
(iii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75686#75686
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, California |
on Nov 4th
Juan & Listers,
I looked at the RV-12 at Oshkosh. To me, it also looked more complicated and
maybe a tad heavier than Zeniths. We won't know about performace differences
for a while.
do not archive
Jim Hoak
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City,
California on Nov 4th
>
> one interesting observation i see in the van vs. zenith is usefull load
> differences.. Vans for its' LSA certifitication looks like a beefier
> plane, and a little more complex build as well. definitely will not be a
> 400 assembly plane.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>>Sent: Nov 18, 2006 6:16 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City,
>>California on Nov 4th
>>
>>
>>(Nothing on the NTSB web site yet about Jim's fatal crash)
>>
>>http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 061115X01677&key=1
>>
>>NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
>>14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
>>Accident occurred Saturday, November 04, 2006 in Yuba City, CA
>>Aircraft: Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, registration: N158MD
>>Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>>
>>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
>>errors.
>>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>>completed.
>>
>>On November 4, 2006, about 1139 Pacific standard time, an Aircraft
>>Manufacturing & Development Co., CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, experienced an
>>in-flight breakup while cruising approximately 8 nautical miles south of
>>Yuba City, California. The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot, who
>>was a co-owner of the airplane, and a passenger were fatally injured.
>>Visual
>>meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed.
>>The
>>flight was performed under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91, and it
>>originated from Lincoln, California, about 1129.
>>
>>A ground-based witness reported hearing the airplane as it approached his
>>location. The witness stated that the airplane's engine was "missing" and
>>its power was "on and off." Seconds later the witness heard the sound of
>>an
>>explosion and observed the center section of the airplane falling straight
>>down.
>>
>>All of the airplane's structural components were located in adjacent open
>>fields during the National Transportation Safety Board's on-scene
>>investigation. The wreckage consisted of the following components, which
>>were separated from each other: left wing (without aileron); right wing
>>(with aileron); main landing gear assembly; cockpit, engine with attached
>>propeller blades; aileron (left wing); and empennage. There was no
>>evidence
>>of oil spray on any of the components, and there was no evidence of fire.
>>
>>The wreckage has been recovered and detailed airframe and engine
>>examinations are ongoing.
>><end>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, California |
on Nov 4th
From: www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int2.htm
<quote>
On October 18, we assembled the airplane and weighed it. There was lots of
interest in this, because we had a pool going in the office. Unfair
advantage to the engineers and their spreadsheets, I said, but plugged in
742 lbs as my best guess. I was delighted to find I was much too pessimistic
when it came in at 714 lbs. (Who won the pool? Silly you for asking! Van was
within one pound.) This is very good news, because the design gross weight
is the Light Sport Category mandated 1320 lbs. A 606 lb useful load with a
19 gallon (115 lb) fuel load gives the airplane 491 lbs for people and
baggage. Quite a useful number and about as good as any of our other 2-seat
airplanes.
<end quote>
But remember - this is a prototype in early flight testing.
-- Craig
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash/ fuel pump location? |
Does anyone know where AMD is installing (location of ) the fuel pump on
the aircraft they are manufacturing?=0AFritz -XL-90/90-Corvair=0A=0A=0A> --
---Original Message-----=0A>>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>=0A>
>Sent: Nov 18, 2006 6:16 PM=0A>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A>>Subject:
Zenith-List: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash in Yuba City, =0A>>Califor
raig@craigandjean.com>=0A>>=0A>>(Nothing on the NTSB web site yet about Jim
's fatal crash)=0A>>=0A>>http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 061115X01
677&key=1=0A>>=0A>>NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026=0A>>14 CFR Part 91: Ge
neral Aviation=0A>>Accident occurred Saturday, November 04, 2006 in Yuba Ci
ty, CA=0A>>Aircraft: Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, registrati
on: N158MD=0A>>Injuries: 2 Fatal.=0A>>=0A>>This is preliminary information,
subject to change, and may contain =0A>>errors.=0A>>Any errors in this rep
ort will be corrected when the final report has been=0A>>completed.=0A>>=0A
>>On November 4, 2006, about 1139 Pacific standard time, an Aircraft=0A>>Ma
nufacturing & Development Co., CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, experienced an=0A>>in-
flight breakup while cruising approximately 8 nautical miles south of=0A>>Y
uba City, California. The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot, who=0A
>>was a co-owner of the airplane, and a passenger were fatally injured. =0A
>>Visual=0A>>meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had be
en filed. =0A>>The=0A>>flight was performed under the provisions of 14 CFR
Part 91, and it=0A>>originated from Lincoln, California, about 1129.=0A>>
=0A>>A ground-based witness reported hearing the airplane as it approached
his=0A>>location. The witness stated that the airplane's engine was "missin
g" and=0A>>its power was "on and off." Seconds later the witness heard the
sound of =0A>>an=0A>>explosion and observed the center section of the airpl
ane falling straight=0A>>down.=0A>>=0A>>All of the airplane's structural co
mponents were located in adjacent open=0A>>fields during the National Trans
portation Safety Board's on-scene=0A>>investigation. The wreckage consisted
of the following components, which=0A>>were separated from each other: lef
t wing (without aileron); right wing=0A>>(with aileron); main landing gear
assembly; cockpit, engine with attached=0A>>propeller blades; aileron (left
wing); and empennage. There was no =0A>>evidence=0A>>of oil spray on any o
f the components, and there was no evidence of fire.=0A>>=0A>>The wreckage
has been recovered and detailed airframe and engine=0A>>examinations are on
going.=0A>><end>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A=0A=0A
===0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You Yah
ttp://mail.yahoo.com
Message 20
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Bill,
You bring up a point that has always somewhat concerned me. When I
started my rudder kit (the only kit I bought)
I looked up the information about how to rivet in the manual. It told
about the specially shaped rivet puller to give the domed heads and a
little drawing about the shape. What bothered me was that there were no
dimensions or instructions other than that little drawing. I can only
wonder how many variations there are of those puller heads. I know the
one I made have the rivet down tight enough that I had virtually no
threads pulled out when I buffed. This issue was amusing to me when the
list had an animated discussion of rivet strength and which factory made
the rivet. It is all immaterial when the shape of the head is never
clearly defined.
Tim Shankland
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> Polishers-
> I'm having no luck using my rotary polisher- bonnet life is
> nonexistant. All I have to do is go over a rivet and I'm done for.
> Bonnet shreds in no time. God help you if you catch a sheet metal
> edge- bonnet shreds immediately.
> Rivets are set well within Zenith "Can't get a fingernail under
> it" tolerance, and I'm using no more than the "Weight of the polisher"
> pressure suggested by Nuvite. (Think about that sentence, we really
> are rocket scientists!) I have no problem with my orbital polishers,
> but they take forever.
> Believe it or not, my $18.95 HF polisher is speed adjustable from
> 0-2500 RPM. Of course, I self destruct quicker at high RPM than low,
> but it's still just a matter of time.
> 1. Am I supposed to avoid going over rivets until I reach the
> orbital stage?
> 2. My HF polisher came with velcro over the backing plate. I
> removed the velcro, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. Anyone
> out there that bought the Wen rotary polisher from Nuvite- is the face
> velcro or smooth?
> HELP!
> I think we ought to archive this one.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
>
>
Message 21
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Craig, I have ordered the vents from Aircraft Spruce. Didn't order the adapter.
When I get the vents, I'll see what it takes to install them directly to the
NACA duct.
Thanks for the reply and info. - Jay
Do not archive
"Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
>>From what I have seen it is fairly common to mount the vents right on the
>ducts. AMD does this although they appear to build a metal plenum over the
>duct. See the attached picture.
>
>I take it things are so tight that you can't reach the panel with a tight
>S-bend?
>
>Can you reach the end of the NACA duct to adjust a vent mounted there when
>in flight?
>
>Anyway Aircraft Spruce has an adapter (p/n 13-00833) which bolts to the back
>of any vent and gives you a 2 inch diameter flange. You should be able to
>couple this directly to the 2 inch outlet of the NACA duct. It is the second
>item from the top in the left column on this catalog page:
>
>www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07190.pdf
>
>The vent just below it (p/n 05-00779) would work nicely with it without
>having a corner to catch your leg.
>
>-- Craig
>
Message 22
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Steve-
Not Carlos, me. Carlos uses paper towels! I'm about frustrated
enough to go that route myself.
There is one point you brought up- I use the same bonnet for F9 and
C, but a separate one for S.
I ordered some flannel bonnets and will see what happens.
There are still two more variables to take into account. I'm
polishing the bottom skin of the C section, but the top isn't in place
yet. There's a good possibility the ribs are moving down under pressure
since they're still relatively free, and creating a pinch point. The
other thing is, I've been using $1.99 HF bonnets. I would expect a
Nuvite bonnet to be more durable.
What really bothers me is, C isn't doing too good of a job getting
rid of the F9 scratches.
Do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Hulland
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Bonnets
Carlos,
Your problem is interesting. I am polishing about 1/3 of my airplane -
the remainder will be painted. I have used the C9 with a Nuvite wool
bonnet mounted on a Dewalt 1/2" VSR Drill. I operate the drill at full
speed when compounding the airplane. I generally use each bonnet at
least 8 or nine times before there is any significant degrading. Apply
dabs of C9, compound and repeat a couple of times. Rake bonnet as
required. Never use another grade with that bonnet. Follow C9 by
compounding with lessor grade, then use the orbital polisher with same
grade, followed by orbital with Nuvite S and a final hand polish. I use
fleece and microfiber for everything after compounding. Works very well
and I do not go through bonnets very fast. Oh! I do clean bonnets by
letting them soak in a solution of Tide concentrate and water for 24
hours, then put them through the washing machine with two extra rinses.
Keeps bonnets in great shape. Some of the aluminum on my airplane was
purchased and worked as long ago as 1986. As you might imagine, there
are lots of scratches, etc. When the polish job is complete, it looks
very very good. Throughout the initial process I attempt to have the
bonnet moving in a direction that does not cause it to catch metal
edges, but go over them. Getting some really nice comments from folks
who stop by and see what I am doing. I just don't have a problem
polishing over the pulled rivet heads. I do not press down very hard,
but I do press down. Cannot see where this may or may not help you, but
thought you might like to know my results.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
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Message 23
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| Subject: | CJ701 Dual Brakes |
List,
Would like to contact anyone installing dual toe brakes.
Regards,
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
CH701/912ULS on order
Message 24
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I saw some eyeball vents at www.steinair.com 1.5 in $90.00 and 2.0 in
$100.00. They are in the Minneapolis area.
Bob Dingley
Pace,Fl
601XL/Lyc
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Van's RV-12 LSA first flights |
Thus far there is only ONE RV-12, the proof of concept proto type has
flown. There is excerpt from Vans statement regarding weight:
"On October 18, we assembled the airplane and weighed it. There was
lots of interest in this, because we had a pool going in the office.
Unfair advantage to the engineers and their spreadsheets, I said, but
plugged in 742 lbs as my best guess. I was delighted to find I was much
too pessimistic when it came in at 714 lbs. (Who won the pool? Silly you
for asking! Van was within one pound.)"
714# vs 714#, sounds like a jump ball.
Knowing Van he'll start looking for ways to reduce that number.
Big Tail ? ?......Compared to the tail on a square tailed C-152....NO
Like the "flying" horizontal stabilizer, not unlike the F-86 Sabre.
BUT I agree I would rather have a Jabiru 3300 w/o the gear reduction.
Almost anything W/O a gear box, KISS.
Happy to announce I have "marched" off my demerits, just like I did at
Lackland in 1957. No scotchbite of any color found, but I did find
several cans of different primers. 8*) KABONG Do Not Archive (GBA &
GWB)
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Van's RV-12 LSA first flights
I like the panel. I'm using that EFIS/EIS unit and I wish I had the
budget for two like this airplane has.
I heard a rumor that Van asked someone on the ramp, "Does this photo
angle make my tail look big?"
Ed Moody II
Do Not Archive
www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int3.htm
Does the tail look big to others?
www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12runup2_lg.jpg
The RV-12 has one interesting feature although it may just be for the
test
aircraft: a canopy jettison lever. Look below the Dynon in this photo:
www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12_full_panel_lg.jpg
Note the brake levers on the sticks: no differential braking - at
least in
the prototype.
Note the N-number: N912VA. I still like my XL especially since I get
to
choose what engine I put in it.
-- Craig
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