Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:11 AM - Why? [Please Read] (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:07 AM - Re: CJ701 Dual Brakes (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
2. 07:26 AM - Re: Fresh Air (T. Graziano)
3. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Fresh Air (Craig Payne)
4. 08:15 AM - Anyone installed a Dynon EMS with a Corvair Engine yet? (Gig Giacona)
5. 10:37 AM - Autopilot for CH701 (Les Goldner)
6. 10:41 AM - Trio AP was Re: Fresh Air (T. Graziano)
7. 12:24 PM - Re: Bandsaw dimension question (Bruno)
8. 01:29 PM - Re: Autopilot for CH701 (nyterminat@aol.com)
9. 03:12 PM - FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Zodie Rocket)
10. 03:20 PM - Jim Pellien Crash (Zodie Rocket)
11. 03:37 PM - 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! (Stephen R. Look)
12. 04:44 PM - Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! (Dave Ruddiman)
13. 05:36 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Randy L. Thwing)
14. 06:47 PM - exhast manafold (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net)
15. 07:27 PM - Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! (Stephen R. Look)
16. 07:47 PM - Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! (Ron Lendon)
17. 08:53 PM - Re: Fresh Air (Brandon Tucker)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Why? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support
from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years
regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate
the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter
once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to
be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments
stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature
that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone
can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before
they are posted. Safe and simple.
Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly
finding the data you're looking for.
And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer
the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums
is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages
posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa.
The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and
other files. Additionally added this year is the new List Wiki that allows
members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various
aspects of their project for all to share.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and
an associated web site that receives over 23,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally,
the List Email system forwarded well over 87,000 postings last year,
accounting for an unbelievable 39,000,000 (yes, that's 39 MILLION) email messages
delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_!
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the
quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message,
Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites.
The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk
a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate,
and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the
Annual List Fund Raiser!
List Contribution Web Site:
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Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CJ701 Dual Brakes |
Ken I retro fit duels into my 601xl this summer. Contact me if you wish.
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com. Best regards, Bill
do not archive
Message 2
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I placed the fresh air outlets on my panel using eyeball vents with adapters
(from Aircraft Spruce) to pick up SCAT tubing from the NACA outlets placed
in the dwg location. No problem, except vents use up panel space. See
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo79.html picture
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic05/493tg3.jpg
The headset jack locations below the panel in the corners directly below the
vents can sometimes be a problem. I relocated the pickups further forward
for a little more room.
Tony Graziano
601XL/Jab3300; N493TG, 173 hrs
--------------------->
> Time: 09:49:51 AM PST US
> From: Jaybannist@cs.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Fresh Air
>
>
> On the 601XL, with the NACA fresh air intakes installed where ZAC shows
> them,
> a duct would have to be severely contorted to get to outlets mounted
> directly
> on the instrument panel. Mounting the outlets below the panel, next to
> the sidewall
> will definitely intrude on my knee space. Yes, with my keen 20-20
> hindsight,
> I know I should have mounted the scoops above where ZAC shows them, but
> at this point, I can't replace the side skins. Has anyone mounted the
> outlets
> directly on the outlet of the plastic intake shroud? It would probably
> require
> a mounting plate, fastened to that adjacent vertical angle (the one that
> is
> curved at the lower end). Is that feasible? If it is, which outlet model
> would
> work best?
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
>
Message 3
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Love your seats!
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic05/493tg4.jpg
How do you like your Trio AP?
-- Craig
Message 4
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| Subject: | Anyone installed a Dynon EMS with a Corvair Engine yet? |
If so what probe set did you use?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75889#75889
Message 5
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| Subject: | Autopilot for CH701 |
If you have an autopilot on your CH701, how well does it work?
I am about half finished with my CH701 and have been eyeing inexpensive
autopilots like the EZ-Pilot. However, EZ holds a course with aileron-only
control. I currently fly (and built) a Challenger II LSA that also has
full-wing length combined flap-ailerons (flapperons). My Challenger won't
hold a course without applying rudder. In fact, if you give it a little
right aileron without rudder, the plane will actually go a little left.
I would like to know how well the EZ-Pilot, or any other inexpensive
autopilot, works on a 701.
Les
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trio AP was Re: Fresh Air |
Craig,
There are two instruments that I really like and would definitely
install again. The Trio EZ Pilot II and the Grand Rapids EIS.
With the AP on for Cross country, you can just put your feet on the
floor and go straight to your destination or via any waypoints. You can
also use it to keep you flying wings level so you can consult your map,
change GPS settings etc.
The EIS keeps me informed of all engine parameters (RPM, OAT, CHT, EGT,
Oil Press/Temp, fuel flow etc) and when approaching any set limits (CHT,
OP, Voltage, etc) It also informs me to change fuel tanks, which I
currently have set to flash the "Red" light every 30 min of flight time.
Seats covers were procured (on sale) by my wife, along with memory and
exercise mat foam for stuffing, from the airplane parts dept of
Wal-Mart.
Tony
Craig Payne (craig@craigandjean.com)
Date: Mon Nov 20 - 8:15 AM
Love your seats!
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic05/493tg4.jpg
How do you like your Trio AP?
-- Craig
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bandsaw dimension question |
Thanks a lot Scott.
Bye
Bruno
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bandsaw dimension question
>
> Hi Bruno:
>
> Don't waste your money on that Ebay junk. You need a full-size band saw
> (12"). Mine is here and it worked great:
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Bandsaw.jpg
> The refrigerator in the background is not necessary.
>
> Also, don't buy a small, cheap sander (ask me how I know). I have this
> one and it is great:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43468
> I sand Chrome-moly or wood with this one and it works very well.
>
> This was the first sander I bought and it is junk:
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Sander.jpg
> Same thing on the band saw. The little saws don't work well.
>
> So in both cases, 12" works for the sander and band saw.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL/Corvair Plans-Builder
> Finishing up BRS Installation
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bruno <sonexplus@libero.it
> I'm a new CH-701 scratch builder and i'm starting to cut of cutting and
> forming blocks...
> What are the recomended dimensions for a bandsaw throat opening and for
> the
> sawing material thick?
>
> And the Sander? Only disc or disc/belt sander? Suggested disc dimension?
>
> What about this two in one:
> http://cgi.ebay.it/SEGA-A-NASTRO-CON-LEVIGATRICE-INCORPORATA-REXON_W0QQitemZ190048238559QQihZ009QQcategoryZ20785QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot for CH701 |
Les,
I have a Century 1 autopilot that works pretty well. If I had to do it again I
would go for one of the newer digital A/P units. The Century 1 is a little twitchy
because it doesn't take much motion to move the stick. I will be playing
with the linkage this winter to make this better. No rudder needed to make turns.
I think Gary in Mexico uses the EZpilot.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/ 912S 87hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: lgold@quantum-associates.com
Sent: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Autopilot for CH701
If you have an autopilot on your CH701, how well does it work?
I am about half finished with my CH701 and have been eyeing inexpensive autopilots
like the EZ-Pilot. However, EZ holds a course with aileron-only control. I
currently fly (and built) a Challenger II LSA that also has full-wing length
combined flap-ailerons (flapperons). My Challenger won't hold a course without
applying rudder. In fact, if you give it a little right aileron without rudder,
the plane will actually go a little left.
I would like to know how well the EZ-Pilot, or any other inexpensive autopilot,
works on a 701.
Les
________________________________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
IF this is True, what a tragedy , Jim was a nice guy, and low fuel is
such a poor way to go. Gents, please keep in mind a simple rule,
NEVER,NEVER leave the ground with anything less then full tanks, not
even if you are just going for a 5 min flight. Get in the habit of
calling for a fuel truck when your heading for your apron, or pull up to
the pumps before putting your plane to bed, but always leave your tanks
FULL after each flight.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: CH601XL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CH601XL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Chuck Scrivner
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
HYPERLINK
"http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=NYC07FA025&rpt=p"http://www.ntsb
.-gov/ntsb/-GenPDF.asp?-id=NYC07FA025&-rpt=p
Pellien ran out of fuel. He must have taken off with less than 5
gal on a 1 hour "joy" flight.....after selling the aircraft and
before delivery to the new owner out west.
Total flight hours (reported) of this Private Pilot who obtained his
Private Pilot certificate about than 2 years ago is about
350.......although, Privatley, he claimed 1,000 of hours military
flight time.
Upon running out of fuel, he apparently turned back toward the
airport. The impact crash and witness reports are consistant with
stall / spin into the trees with a paved road nearby that could have
been used.
What a shame, what a waste.
How can we imprint and emphasize the need to maintain airspeed,
and.....that to make forward progress at a best L/D, you must put
the nose down and maintain best L/D (which is usually the vY speed
of any particular aircraft.)
You CAN NOT pull back on the stick and go up. The more you pull up,
the faster you come down.
Again, glider training emphasises this........-and we land empty fuel
all the time....after hours and hours of no power flight
Chuck
> HYPERLINK
"http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID=1097724"http
://www.controll-er.com/listings/-forsale/detail.-asp?OHID=-1097724
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
__._,_.___
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--
11/20/2006
--
11/20/2006
Message 10
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| Subject: | Jim Pellien Crash |
NTSB Identification: NYC07FA025
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, November 11, 2006 in Basye, VA
Aircraft: Czech Aircraft Works CH 601 XL RTF, registration: N601VA
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
report has been completed.
On November 11, 2006, at 1630 eastern standard time, a Czech Aircraft
Works CH 601 XL RTF, N601VA, was substantially damaged when it impacted
trees following a loss of engine power while maneuvering near Sky Bryce
Airport (VG18), Basye, Virginia. The certificated private pilot was
fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no
flight plan was filed for the local personal flight conducted under 14
CFR Part 91.
According to witness statements, the pilot stated that he was going to
fly for "about an hour." The airplane was seen "circling" north of the
airport, and then to descend. It was next observed "very low" over the
trees, turning southward. It then turned towards the east, and the
engine "surged," then became silent. Moments later, the airplane banked
90 degrees to the left and witnesses heard the sound of impact.
The accident occurred during the hours of daylight. The wreckage was
located at 38 degrees, 49.321 minutes north latitude, 78 degrees, 45.078
minutes west longitude, at an elevation of 1,379 feet msl.
After striking several trees, the airplane came to rest next to a road
oriented in a direction of 072 degrees magnetic, 0.9 miles northeast of
the departure end of runway 5, and 116 feet in elevation above it.
There was no debris path or postcrash fire. All major components of the
airplane were accounted for at the accident site.
The left wing, right wing, and tail section, along with all associated
flight control surfaces displayed differing degrees of damage. The main
wreckage was upright and the outboard 5 feet 4 inches of the left wing
had separated from the airframe. The rudder and horizontal stabilizer
had separated from their respective attach fittings. The wing flaps had
separated from the flap actuator and were found hanging from their
hinges in a downward direction. Further examination revealed that the
internal flap drive mechanism corresponded to a flaps up position.
Flight control continuity was confirmed from the right aileron, left
aileron bellcrank, elevator, and rudder horns to the cockpit.
Examination of the cockpit revealed that the throttle control was in the
maximum power position. The carburetor heat control was in the off
position, and the fuel selector was in the left tank position.
Examination of the nose spinner and three bladed composite propeller
revealed that the spinner displayed evidence of crushing only on the
portion that was in contact with the ground and lower engine cowling.
The propeller blades displayed impact damage and no evidence of
rotation. All of the blades displayed differing degrees of damage. One
blade was folded rearward under the engine cowling, one blade had
separated at the blade root from the propeller hub, and one blade
displayed chordwise separation.
Examination of the engine revealed minimal impact damage. Continuity of
the intake system, exhaust system, valve train, and crankshaft was
confirmed. The crankshaft was then rotated by hand, and no binding was
noted.
No smell of fuel was noted at the accident site, and no evidence of fuel
staining or spillage was present.
The fuel lines, fuel tanks, and fuel filter were examined and no
preimpact malfunctions or leaks were discovered. No evidence of fuel in
the low points of the system was discovered and the fuel tanks were dry
and absent of fuel. The fuel filter was clean, free of debris, and
contained a trace amount of fuel.
The carburetors were disassembled to inspect the diaphragms and the
inside of the float bowls. The diaphragms were dry, and no tears or
punctures were evident. The floats were functional, and the internal
portions of the float bowls were clean and free of debris.
In all, approximately two ounces of fluid consistent with 100LL aviation
gasoline was recovered from the entire fuel system for testing. The
fluid included the trace amount from the fuel filter and approximately 4
tablespoons from the carburetor float bowls. The fluid was bright,
clear, and no visible contamination was evident. When the fluid sample
was applied to a coupon containing water-finding paste, the paste did
not react, indicating that water was not present.
The airplane was manufactured in 2005, and was equipped with the
original engine. The airplane's most recent 100 hour inspection was
completed on October 23, 2006, and at the time of the accident, it had
accumulated 507.4 total hours of operation.
The pilot held a private pilot certificate with a rating for airplane
single-engine land. He reported 350 total hours of flight experience on
his most recent application for a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
third-class medical certificate, dated June 13, 2005.
A weather observation taken about 7 minutes after the accident at Grant
County Airport (W99), Petersburg, West Virginia, located approximately
21 nautical miles northwest of the accident site, recorded the wind as
180 degrees at 5 knots, visibility 10 miles, scattered clouds at 8,500
feet, temperature 77 degrees Fahrenheit, dew point 46 degrees
Fahrenheit, and an altimeter setting of 29.74 inches of mercury.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
11/20/2006
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! |
Either I have read and misunderstood the instructions or there is an
error. On 6-W-8B, page 4 of the instructions say:
"NOTE: the width of the nose rib flange tapers to a small 4mm flange
at the front, the first hole is at 30mm from the spar rivet line, the
last hole is approximately 315mm from the spar rivet line."
I didn't double-check with print 6-W-8 first which clearly shows the
first rivet at 35mm from the spar rivet line. So now I have two #40
holes drilled in my leading edge skin that I can't possibly put a
rivet into. Thankfully I noticed what was happening before going on.
30mm puts you right on the edge of the spar. Is it ok to leave these
two just open?
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! |
Steve,
It would probably be OK to leave them open, but if I were doing it I would
at least put a rivet in each one. Actually I have done this some time back
on another project. I dimpled the rivet and the hole and put some filler
over the dent for cosmetic reasons only.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen R. Look" <slook@mchsi.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:37 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first!
>
> Either I have read and misunderstood the instructions or there is an
> error. On 6-W-8B, page 4 of the instructions say:
>
> "NOTE: the width of the nose rib flange tapers to a small 4mm flange at
> the front, the first hole is at 30mm from the spar rivet line, the last
> hole is approximately 315mm from the spar rivet line."
>
> I didn't double-check with print 6-W-8 first which clearly shows the first
> rivet at 35mm from the spar rivet line. So now I have two #40 holes
> drilled in my leading edge skin that I can't possibly put a rivet into.
> Thankfully I noticed what was happening before going on. 30mm puts you
> right on the edge of the spar. Is it ok to leave these two just open?
>
> Steve
>
> Steve Look
> Monticello, IL
> www.ilrt66.com
> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I have to respfully disagree, I believe the rule should be: ALWAYS KNOW
WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF! Fueling when you put your
ship away is no guarantee that the fuel will be there for the NEXT
flight. Our Flying club (www.eaa163.com) has a original 1958 Cessna
172 with a 145 Hp engine. We fuel for the mission. That is, if you
load three fat guys into the ship for a 1 hour flight, full fuel would
put the ship very overgross and possibly as dangerous as too little fuel
(especially with our very high density altitudes in the summer). We
demand pilot awareness regarding fuel for EACH and EVERY flight. We
fuel for the mission, we stick the tanks, we don't trust the guages.
Last month we all went to look at a visiting, near new WILGA, what a
airplane! But the pilot's side quick drain was steadily dripping fuel.
I reported it to the airport management who contacted the absent owner.
Another case where he probably topped off upon arrival, but the fuel
would not be there in the morning. There are also the stories where
owner calls the fuel desk to fuel the "blue" Cessna, only to find out
(later) they fueled another "blue" Cessna three airplanes away. One
Sunday Morning, I was pre-flighing my old Bonz to attend a EAA Chapter
fly out breakfast. The guys behind me jumped into a 182, fired off and
taxied out to the runup area. A few minutes later they taxied back in.
I asked if I could help? No, one of their fuel guages was reading near
empty. Shouldn't be as they had ordered the airplane fueled the night
before. I asked if they had sticked the tanks? No, but NOW they were
looking for a ladder as that sounded like a good idea. Luckily, this
all happened on the ground. Different airplanes have different fuel
requirements, but:
ALWAYS KNOW WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF!
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
NEVER,NEVER leave the ground with anything less then full tanks, not
even if you are just going for a 5 min flight. Get in the habit of
calling for a fuel truck when your heading for your apron, or pull up to
the pumps before putting your plane to bed, but always leave your tanks
FULL after each flight.
Message 14
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Here's my new tuned header that's going on my just arived 130 H.P. Ram Perf
ormance eng.I had them ceramic coated in side,and cemichromed out side it's
to keep the eng. room cooler by 50 degrees . hope so... It's also helps
the exhast gas after burn ,so my little 601 should do real well after this
new eng. transplant . more goodie to come, Ill post more pict. as I get the
parts.
N101HD Joe
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! |
There isn't room to put in a rivet. 30mm is right on the edge of the
spar. If I drill the hole out big enough to take an A4 rivet, the
edge of the spar will show through the hole.
At 06:42 PM 11/20/2006, you wrote:
><pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
>It would probably be OK to leave them open, but if I were doing it I
>would at least put a rivet in each one. Actually I have done this
>some time back on another project. I dimpled the rivet and the hole
>and put some filler over the dent for cosmetic reasons only.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! |
The prints are the bible. I always check the ZENITH AIRCRAFT
BUILDERS PAGES to see if there are any updates before moving on to the next major
section of the prints.
I just did it for you
6-W-8 08/05 WING SKINS
08/05 is the most current update to that print.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76018#76018
Message 17
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I used the following vent system from Vans:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1164084586-262-300&browse=heatvent&product=ventilation-components
VENT SV-COMBO X2
It was fairly cheap, and worked fine.
R/
Brandon
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