Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! (Stephen R. Look)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
3. 08:18 AM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Gig Giacona)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: Fresh Air (Gig Giacona)
5. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! (Charles Wacker)
6. 09:57 AM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash ()
7. 11:18 AM - ()
8. 01:16 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Charles Wacker)
9. 02:33 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Craig Payne)
10. 02:50 PM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Tim Juhl)
11. 02:53 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Dave G.)
12. 03:06 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Jeff)
13. 03:24 PM - Painting N601EZ is finally done (LarryMcFarland)
14. 03:31 PM - Fuel Check (Zodie Rocket)
15. 03:53 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (Gary Boothe)
16. 03:53 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (Dave Ruddiman)
17. 03:55 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (george may)
18. 04:09 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Juan Vega)
19. 04:43 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (Bill Naumuk)
20. 04:45 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Paul Mulwitz)
21. 05:16 PM - Re: Bonnets (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
22. 05:23 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (Gig Giacona)
23. 05:32 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Gary Gower)
24. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (LarryMcFarland)
25. 05:57 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (LarryMcFarland)
26. 06:31 PM - Need a 601 conditional inspection work sheet (JOHN STARN)
27. 07:19 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Kelly Meiste)
28. 07:36 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Craig Payne)
29. 07:44 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (Bob Percival)
30. 08:03 PM - Re: Fuel Check (Ron Lendon)
31. 08:27 PM - Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done (Ron Lendon)
32. 09:58 PM - Re: Autopilot for CH701 (Gary Gower)
33. 10:09 PM - Sensitive Elevator (Jonathan Starke)
34. 10:18 PM - Re: Autopilot for CH701 (Gary Gower)
35. 11:34 PM - Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Juan Vega)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! |
Yep. I have the most current of both the plan and the assembly
manual. The error is in the current assembly manual. My bad for not
cross-checking with the print.
Just tossing this out here as a warning to anyone else just starting
that you have got to check the print rather than blindly use the
assembly manual.
Steve
At 09:45 PM 11/20/2006, you wrote:
>
>The prints are the bible. I always check the ZENITH AIRCRAFT
>BUILDERS PAGES to see if there are any updates before moving on to
>the next major section of the prints.
>
>I just did it for you
>
>6-W-8 08/05 WING SKINS
>
>08/05 is the most current update to that print.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I agree with Randy. Having done a couple really dum stunts in my flying
career concerning fuel management, oversight and neglect and luckily not ending
up
bent in I can say that KNOWING what's in the tanks is the simplest and safest
rule. Bill
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I too have to disagree with the "always full fuel" statement. These planes have
a ~4 hour fuel capacity and there are times when full fuel is neither needed
or desired.
Know your fuel state at all times. Know your fuel burn at all times. That is what
we need to take from this and virtually all fuel starvation accidents.
That said, did anybody even realize that you could get the plane to the point where
it only had two ounces of fuel on board?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76110#76110
Message 4
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That SV-1 NACA vent is pretty much exactly what Zenith shipped with my kit.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76118#76118
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first! |
Zenith tells builders to always use the drawings as the right way to do
things.
Chuck wacker
N601CW, Quick build
>From: "Stephen R. Look" <slook@mchsi.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing trouble - check the print first!
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:37:41 -0600
>
>
>Yep. I have the most current of both the plan and the assembly manual. The
>error is in the current assembly manual. My bad for not cross-checking with
>the print.
>Just tossing this out here as a warning to anyone else just starting that
>you have got to check the print rather than blindly use the assembly
>manual.
>
>Steve
>
>At 09:45 PM 11/20/2006, you wrote:
>
>>
>>The prints are the bible. I always check the ZENITH AIRCRAFT
>>BUILDERS PAGES to see if there are any updates before moving on to the
>>next major section of the prints.
>>
>>I just did it for you
>>
>>6-W-8 08/05 WING SKINS
>>
>>08/05 is the most current update to that print.
>
>Steve Look
>Monticello, IL
>www.ilrt66.com
>"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
list.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
The most eye opening thing was, of course, an experienced flyer running out of
fuel. After that, the extremely low fuel remaining or high usuable percentage,
was very surprising.
As to running out of gas, another high time flyer I knew here locally, had run
out of fuel at least once that I know of. This was a guy who we all considered
the "Go To" guy for instrument instruction or to hire as a charter pilot. Thousands
of hours of flight time in his log book.
None of us can afford to be lax nor can we assume that because we know better and
have been well warned, that we will not make the same or some other mistake.
Ed Moody II
Do Not Archive
---- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net> wrote:
>
> That said, did anybody even realize that you could get the plane to the point
where it only had two ounces of fuel on board?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
Message 7
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I was taught to open the tanks and look before each flight as part of the
preflight. It served two purposes: 1) confirm the amount of fuel on board,
2) Confirm that the cap was securely closed.
Gauges at best are a poor indication as to how much fuel you have on board.
Keep in mind that we use a VW sender as supplied by Zenith. Does your car
gauge read accurately? Mine doesn't and I own two VW's.
Chuck Wacker
N601CW, Quick build
>From: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:16:54 -0500
>
>I agree with this totally. I have a friend who wrecked his plane because
>he gassed up the plane the night before his morning flight. What he
>discovered afterwards was that some thieves syphoned off the fuel in his
>tank during the night...
>
>Trev Page
>C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
>
>On Nov 20, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Randy L. Thwing wrote:
>
>>I have to respfully disagree, I believe the rule should be: ALWAYS KNOW
>>WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF! Fueling when you put your
>>ship away is no guarantee that the fuel will be there for the NEXT
>>flight. Our Flying club (www.eaa163.com) has a original 1958 Cessna 172
>>with a 145 Hp engine. We fuel for the mission. That is, if you load
>>three fat guys into the ship for a 1 hour flight, full fuel would put the
>>ship very overgross and possibly as dangerous as too little fuel
>>(especially with our very high density altitudes in the summer). We
>>demand pilot awareness regarding fuel for EACH and EVERY flight. We fuel
>>for the mission, we stick the tanks, we don't trust the guages. Last
>>month we all went to look at a visiting, near new WILGA, what a
>>airplane! But the pilot's side quick drain was steadily dripping fuel.
>>I reported it to the airport management who contacted the absent owner.
>>Another case where he probably topped off upon arrival, but the fuel
>>would not be there in the morning. There are also the stories where
>>owner calls the fuel desk to fuel the "blue" Cessna, only to find out
>>(later) they fueled another "blue" Cessna three airplanes away. One
>>Sunday Morning, I was pre-flighing my old Bonz to attend a EAA Chapter
>>fly out breakfast. The guys behind me jumped into a 182, fired off and
>>taxied out to the runup area. A few minutes later they taxied back in.
>>I asked if I could help? No, one of their fuel guages was reading near
>>empty. Shouldn't be as they had ordered the airplane fueled the night
>>before. I asked if they had sticked the tanks? No, but NOW they were
>>looking for a ladder as that sounded like a good idea. Luckily, this all
>> happened on the ground. Different airplanes have different fuel
>>requirements, but:
>>
>>ALWAYS KNOW WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF!
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
It is said that the fuel gauge is the least accurate instrument in an
airplane.
-- Craig
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
This discussion of the dangers of running out of fuel brings to mind the demise
of singer John Denver, who was by all accounts a good pilot.
Obviously such accidents are not limited to low-time pilots. We have a guy around
here who runs a charter operation. He's run out of fuel twice. Once while
IFR at night (managed to find an airport) and last year on day VFR flight back
to Michigan from Canada. Ditched in Lake Huron about 8 miles short of his
destination. In both cases, everyone survived.
A few years ago I was conducting a standardization course for filight instructors
and watched as three CFI's departed in a 182 for a checkride. As soon as they
rotated a spray of blue was observed streaming off the right wing. 3 CFI's
and no one had checked to see if the fuel cap was on.
We recently had a new 182 ditch in the shallows of lake St. Clair on a flight from
NY state. Same reason, missing fuel cap.
I teach my students to: (1) Visually inspect and determine fuel quantity before
each flight and that fuel caps are properly installed and (2) carry more fuel
than the FAA minimums require. With an old plane like a Cub or Champ, that
usually means full tanks.
You guys have all got the right idea.... the moral here is to come up with a sound
fuel management procedure and stick with it. The term "pilot in command"
means that you are in charge of determining whether the flight can be made safely.
There is no room for guesswork.
Tim
Do not Archive
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76177#76177
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
You know, I never met Jim and it's clear I never will. However I don't know
how he made his pre-flight and I don't think I would simply assume he took
off with no fuel. I think I would simply feel bad that a fellow pilot died,
for all we know those tanks were full at take-off.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
We need to consider that there are no FBO or any other services available at
Sky Bryce Airport where N601VA was based. The MASPL custom was to fuel up
at the New Market Airport nearby. Jeff Davidson
Others wrote:
I have to respfully disagree, I believe the rule should be: ALWAYS KNOW
WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF! Fueling when you put your
ship away is no guarantee that the fuel will be there for the NEXT flight.
<snip>
NEVER,NEVER leave the ground with anything less then full tanks, not even if
you are just going for a 5 min flight. Get in the habit of calling for a
fuel truck when your heading for your apron, or pull up to the pumps before
putting your plane to bed, but always leave your tanks FULL after each
flight. <snip>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Hi guys,
N601EZ is finally painted and the annual inspection was finished this
morning. There were questions about how much paint was added to the
airplane by weight. Until W& B this morning Id only measured thickness
from .0015 to .0025. The plane gained 15 lbs, not counting going to
thicker gear plate weldments 1-lb each, 6 lbs of wheel pants etc. The
empty weight for paint went from 729 lbs to 744 lbs. Thats 3 to 4 lbs
more than Id calculated for a1-1/2-gallon base coat, 1-gallon trim coat
and 2-gallons of primer. I had a quart of base color, a quart of white
primer and -gallon trim color left over. Idaho Snow and Bayou Blue.
Really pleased with the paint and the process. I made more work of it
(April to November) than most and nearly every mistake as well. Even so,
Id recommend the paint to anyone who wants to paint at home. Its very
forgiving and extremely tough. Most mistakes are repairable and the
process is consistent throughout. I was given a cell phone number for
24/7 tech support and used it more than once. Their manual is very good
and describes all the paint processes for the aluminum aircraft in
easily understood English.
I spent under $2800.00 for the paint, 2 paint guns, booth, fresh air
system, filters, lacquer thinner, distilled water, timer, spares et all,
etc. A chapter member builder wanting to paint his RV6 bought everything
but the DeVilbiss finish gun. The booth was marked for reassembly,
knocked down in the space of 2 hours, loaded into a pickup bed and was
gone within two days of mentioning it at a chapter meeting. This too
reduced the cost.
Its the paint job I wanted, without getting too near a professional
job. It cleans up well and improves what was becoming a scruffy
unpainted 601. There are several things to do like soundproofing and
completing the interior. Best recommendations, paint before flying if
you can. I know, it's just too much fun to stop, but youll save 100
hours of cleaning and surface prep.
Links below show the finished product and my paint page shows the booth,
special equipment and processes involved.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezfrontright.gif
Anyway, I had to show it to you,
Happy flying,
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
Message 14
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I=92m sorry I left out that you should always stick your tank when you
check for water before every flight. I just figured it was obvious, As
for the filling the tanks before bedtime, it must be a location thing.
In Southern Ontario we have an amazing amount of morning dew on a daily
basis and at CYKF almost every dam morning is fog or mist. So filling
the tanks not only ensures that there will be fuel there and is a very
easy habit to get into but it also reduces the volume of air that can
get into your tanks to condensate. Nevertheless, yes before every flight
visual inspections of both tanks and sticking the tank is in the walk
around.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL
crash
Others wrote:
I have to respfully disagree, I believe the rule should be: ALWAYS KNOW
WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF! Fueling when you put your
ship away is no guarantee that the fuel will be there for the NEXT
flight. <snip>
NEVER,NEVER leave the ground with anything less then full tanks, not
even if you are just going for a 5 min flight. Get in the habit of
calling for a fuel truck when your heading for your apron, or pull up to
the pumps before putting your plane to bed, but always leave your tanks
FULL after each flight. <snip>
--
11/21/2006
--
11/21/2006
Message 15
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| Subject: | Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Larry,
She's a beauty!!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do Not Archive
N601EZ is finally painted...
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Larry,
You probably said this in a previous post, but what paint did you use?
Wasn't it the waterborne stuff. NICE PAINT JOB.
Dave in rainy Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Painting N601EZ is finally done
>
> Hi guys,
>
> N601EZ is finally painted and the annual inspection was finished this
> morning. There were questions about how much paint was added to the
> airplane by weight. Until W& B this morning Id only measured thickness
> from .0015 to .0025. The plane gained 15 lbs, not counting going to
> thicker gear plate weldments 1-lb each, 6 lbs of wheel pants etc. The
> empty weight for paint went from 729 lbs to 744 lbs. Thats 3 to 4 lbs
> more than Id calculated for a1-1/2-gallon base coat, 1-gallon trim coat
> and 2-gallons of primer. I had a quart of base color, a quart of white
> primer and -gallon trim color left over. Idaho Snow and Bayou Blue.
>
> Really pleased with the paint and the process. I made more work of it
> (April to November) than most and nearly every mistake as well. Even so, Id
> recommend the paint to anyone who wants to paint at home. Its very
> forgiving and extremely tough. Most mistakes are repairable and the
> process is consistent throughout. I was given a cell phone number for 24/7
> tech support and used it more than once. Their manual is very good and
> describes all the paint processes for the aluminum aircraft in easily
> understood English.
>
> I spent under $2800.00 for the paint, 2 paint guns, booth, fresh air
> system, filters, lacquer thinner, distilled water, timer, spares et all,
> etc. A chapter member builder wanting to paint his RV6 bought everything
> but the DeVilbiss finish gun. The booth was marked for reassembly, knocked
> down in the space of 2 hours, loaded into a pickup bed and was gone within
> two days of mentioning it at a chapter meeting. This too reduced the cost.
>
> Its the paint job I wanted, without getting too near a professional job.
> It cleans up well and improves what was becoming a scruffy unpainted 601.
> There are several things to do like soundproofing and completing the
> interior. Best recommendations, paint before flying if you can. I know,
> it's just too much fun to stop, but youll save 100 hours of cleaning and
> surface prep.
>
> Links below show the finished product and my paint page shows the booth,
> special equipment and processes involved.
>
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
>
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezfrontright.gif
>
> Anyway, I had to show it to you,
>
> Happy flying,
>
> Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Larry--
Nice job-----------bet your glad it's over with
George May
601XL912s
do not archive
>From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>To: zenith-list <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Painting N601EZ is finally done
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:22:33 -0600
>
>
>Hi guys,
>
>N601EZ is finally painted and the annual inspection was finished this
>morning. There were questions about how much paint was added to the
>airplane by weight. Until W& B this morning Id only measured thickness
>from .0015 to .0025. The plane gained 15 lbs, not counting going to thicker
>gear plate weldments 1-lb each, 6 lbs of wheel pants etc. The empty weight
>for paint went from 729 lbs to 744 lbs. Thats 3 to 4 lbs more than Id
>calculated for a1-1/2-gallon base coat, 1-gallon trim coat and 2-gallons of
>primer. I had a quart of base color, a quart of white primer and -gallon
>trim color left over. Idaho Snow and Bayou Blue.
>
>Really pleased with the paint and the process. I made more work of it
>(April to November) than most and nearly every mistake as well. Even so,
>Id recommend the paint to anyone who wants to paint at home. Its very
>forgiving and extremely tough. Most mistakes are repairable and the process
>is consistent throughout. I was given a cell phone number for 24/7 tech
>support and used it more than once. Their manual is very good and describes
>all the paint processes for the aluminum aircraft in easily understood
>English.
>
>I spent under $2800.00 for the paint, 2 paint guns, booth, fresh air
>system, filters, lacquer thinner, distilled water, timer, spares et all,
>etc. A chapter member builder wanting to paint his RV6 bought everything
>but the DeVilbiss finish gun. The booth was marked for reassembly, knocked
>down in the space of 2 hours, loaded into a pickup bed and was gone within
>two days of mentioning it at a chapter meeting. This too reduced the cost.
>
>Its the paint job I wanted, without getting too near a professional job.
>It cleans up well and improves what was becoming a scruffy unpainted 601.
>There are several things to do like soundproofing and completing the
>interior. Best recommendations, paint before flying if you can. I know,
>it's just too much fun to stop, but youll save 100 hours of cleaning and
>surface prep.
>
>Links below show the finished product and my paint page shows the booth,
>special equipment and processes involved.
>
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
>
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezfrontright.gif
>
>Anyway, I had to show it to you,
>
>Happy flying,
>
>Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Keep it simple, all pilots regardless of hours need to use the written check list.
The problem is as we gain hours, we get lax. I have cut corners from time
to time and, I forget the reason for a check list, is not to forget the list
of things before determining a go or no go. Every CFI teaches us, check list
and check the list. You cut corners and that is the one time you wished you
had not skipped the check list.
Go right to your walk around check list, everytime, and check. We are all human,
and 12 years ago, the one time I did not go through my check list because"
i was only 30 minutes from my last flight" the plane sputtered five miles from
runway. I was at 1200 ft. at 100 mph, I emmediately climbed to bleed off MPH
and assume best glide first, then set to determine the casue of the "dead stick
problem". When I landed, the tanks had only the nonusable amounts in them(1
gal each side!). I did not see that the engine was runnning richer, consuming
more than usual, hence, the tanks were lower than what I thought.
If I had gone through my check list, Opening the tanks and putting the dip stick
would have alerte me. We all miss Jim, and it may not have been the fuel as
the problem, but I know for certain there are a bunch of low time pilots on this
forum, and the higher time pilots need to guide the lesser pilots with good
advice. Let us all look inward and learn something from this. God did not create
check lists for wall paper and decoration.
Juan
601 xl
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
>Sent: Nov 21, 2006 5:49 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
>
>
>This discussion of the dangers of running out of fuel brings to mind the demise
of singer John Denver, who was by all accounts a good pilot.
>
>Obviously such accidents are not limited to low-time pilots. We have a guy around
here who runs a charter operation. He's run out of fuel twice. Once while
IFR at night (managed to find an airport) and last year on day VFR flight back
to Michigan from Canada. Ditched in Lake Huron about 8 miles short of his
destination. In both cases, everyone survived.
>
>A few years ago I was conducting a standardization course for filight instructors
and watched as three CFI's departed in a 182 for a checkride. As soon as
they rotated a spray of blue was observed streaming off the right wing. 3 CFI's
and no one had checked to see if the fuel cap was on.
>
>We recently had a new 182 ditch in the shallows of lake St. Clair on a flight
from NY state. Same reason, missing fuel cap.
>
>I teach my students to: (1) Visually inspect and determine fuel quantity before
each flight and that fuel caps are properly installed and (2) carry more fuel
than the FAA minimums require. With an old plane like a Cub or Champ, that
usually means full tanks.
>
>You guys have all got the right idea.... the moral here is to come up with a sound
fuel management procedure and stick with it. The term "pilot in command"
means that you are in charge of determining whether the flight can be made safely.
There is no room for guesswork.
>
>Tim
>
>Do not Archive
>
>--------
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76177#76177
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Congrats.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Painting N601EZ is finally done
>
> Hi guys,
>
> N601EZ is finally painted and the annual inspection was finished this
> morning. There were questions about how much paint was added to the
> airplane by weight. Until W& B this morning Id only measured thickness
> from .0015 to .0025. The plane gained 15 lbs, not counting going to
> thicker gear plate weldments 1-lb each, 6 lbs of wheel pants etc. The
> empty weight for paint went from 729 lbs to 744 lbs. Thats 3 to 4 lbs
> more than Id calculated for a1-1/2-gallon base coat, 1-gallon trim coat
> and 2-gallons of primer. I had a quart of base color, a quart of white
> primer and -gallon trim color left over. Idaho Snow and Bayou Blue.
>
> Really pleased with the paint and the process. I made more work of it
> (April to November) than most and nearly every mistake as well. Even so, Id
> recommend the paint to anyone who wants to paint at home. Its very
> forgiving and extremely tough. Most mistakes are repairable and the
> process is consistent throughout. I was given a cell phone number for 24/7
> tech support and used it more than once. Their manual is very good and
> describes all the paint processes for the aluminum aircraft in easily
> understood English.
>
> I spent under $2800.00 for the paint, 2 paint guns, booth, fresh air
> system, filters, lacquer thinner, distilled water, timer, spares et all,
> etc. A chapter member builder wanting to paint his RV6 bought everything
> but the DeVilbiss finish gun. The booth was marked for reassembly, knocked
> down in the space of 2 hours, loaded into a pickup bed and was gone within
> two days of mentioning it at a chapter meeting. This too reduced the cost.
>
> Its the paint job I wanted, without getting too near a professional job.
> It cleans up well and improves what was becoming a scruffy unpainted 601.
> There are several things to do like soundproofing and completing the
> interior. Best recommendations, paint before flying if you can. I know,
> it's just too much fun to stop, but youll save 100 hours of cleaning and
> surface prep.
>
> Links below show the finished product and my paint page shows the booth,
> special equipment and processes involved.
>
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
>
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezfrontright.gif
>
> Anyway, I had to show it to you,
>
> Happy flying,
>
> Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I don't think the important issue here is the accuracy of fuel
gauges. The important issue is that each pilot is responsible for
insuring he has sufficient fuel for his intended flight with
sufficient reserves to overcome unexpected events in the
flight. This might mean 1/2 hour or 1 hour extra fuel for a given
flight. With sufficient reserves for every flight, it doesn't matter
whether you look at the fuel quantity gauges or merely depend on the
visual inspection of fuel in the tanks before takeoff.
I am saddened that Jim paid the ultimate price for failing on this
most basic of pilot responsibilities. I am sure his fuel problems
were complicated by the location where his engine quit. I have been
to that airport (many years ago) and it is very difficult to land and
take off from because of the surrounding hills and trees.
If my count is correct, this is the third Zodiac XL to have a fatal
crash this year. I don't think this is a reasonable number
considering how few of these planes are flying. While I believe the
design is sound, I think all of us should be paying special attention
to flight safety issues until this streak of bad events comes to an end.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 02:32 PM 11/21/2006, you wrote:
>
>It is said that the fuel gauge is the least accurate instrument in an
>airplane.
>
>-- Craig
>
Message 21
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I didn't use a bonnet on my plane for the compounding buffer. I used a wool buffing
pad, the velcro backed type. This is woat was recommended by Nuvite.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Polishers-
I'm having no luck using my rotary polisher- bonnet life is nonexistant. All
I have to do is go over a rivet and I'm done for. Bonnet shreds in no time.
God help you if you catch a sheet metal edge- bonnet shreds immediately
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive
<html><body>
<DIV>I didn't use a bonnet on my plane for the compounding buffer. I used a wool
buffing pad, the velcro backed type. This is woat was recommended by Nuvite.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Bill Naumuk"
<naumuk@alltel.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2995" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Polishers-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I'm having no luck using my rotary
polisher- bonnet life is nonexistant. All I have to do is go over a rivet
and I'm done for. Bonnet shreds in no time. God help you if you catch a sheet
metal edge- bonnet shreds immediately</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Bryan Martin <BR>N61BM, CH 601 XL, <BR>RAM
Subaru, Stratus redrive </DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Great job. I've got a question for you. The color on the tail where the N# is.
Is that paint or vinyl?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76213#76213
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
A very important "tool" in flying: The Checklist(s)....
With modern cars that lock the doors, shut off and on the lights, tell you miles
in advance when fuel is low or when you need to change the oil or service
the car, etc. we forget the basics of checking the car every week, like fathers
and grandpa's did..
That is the basic of the aviation checklists and mantainance....
Lets keep proficient, for our life and family happiness, also and not last, to
protect our sport from the media...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
I was taught to open the tanks and look before each flight as part of the
preflight. It served two purposes: 1) confirm the amount of fuel on board,
2) Confirm that the cap was securely closed.
Gauges at best are a poor indication as to how much fuel you have on board.
Keep in mind that we use a VW sender as supplied by Zenith. Does your car
gauge read accurately? Mine doesn't and I own two VW's.
Chuck Wacker
N601CW, Quick build
>From: Trevor Page
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:16:54 -0500
>
>I agree with this totally. I have a friend who wrecked his plane because
>he gassed up the plane the night before his morning flight. What he
>discovered afterwards was that some thieves syphoned off the fuel in his
>tank during the night...
>
>Trev Page
>C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
>
>On Nov 20, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Randy L. Thwing wrote:
>
>>I have to respfully disagree, I believe the rule should be: ALWAYS KNOW
>>WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF! Fueling when you put your
>>ship away is no guarantee that the fuel will be there for the NEXT
>>flight. Our Flying club (www.eaa163.com) has a original 1958 Cessna 172
>>with a 145 Hp engine. We fuel for the mission. That is, if you load
>>three fat guys into the ship for a 1 hour flight, full fuel would put the
>>ship very overgross and possibly as dangerous as too little fuel
>>(especially with our very high density altitudes in the summer). We
>>demand pilot awareness regarding fuel for EACH and EVERY flight. We fuel
>>for the mission, we stick the tanks, we don't trust the guages. Last
>>month we all went to look at a visiting, near new WILGA, what a
>>airplane! But the pilot's side quick drain was steadily dripping fuel.
>>I reported it to the airport management who contacted the absent owner.
>>Another case where he probably topped off upon arrival, but the fuel
>>would not be there in the morning. There are also the stories where
>>owner calls the fuel desk to fuel the "blue" Cessna, only to find out
>>(later) they fueled another "blue" Cessna three airplanes away. One
>>Sunday Morning, I was pre-flighing my old Bonz to attend a EAA Chapter
>>fly out breakfast. The guys behind me jumped into a 182, fired off and
>>taxied out to the runup area. A few minutes later they taxied back in.
>>I asked if I could help? No, one of their fuel guages was reading near
>>empty. Shouldn't be as they had ordered the airplane fueled the night
>>before. I asked if they had sticked the tanks? No, but NOW they were
>>looking for a ladder as that sounded like a good idea. Luckily, this all
>> happened on the ground. Different airplanes have different fuel
>>requirements, but:
>>
>>ALWAYS KNOW WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF!
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Gig,
The numbers are vinyl and the blue whatchamacallit is paint. I'd have
surely used vinyl if I'd known any more about vinyl before I
decided to paint the blue there. Additional trim lines or decoration
will certainly be vinyl as it is easy to get centered and sticks well.
Larry McFarland
Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Great job. I've got a question for you. The color on the tail where the N# is.
Is that paint or vinyl?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Dave,
Gig,
The paint is the water thinned urethane and catalyst called waterborne
paint. In stead of the high VOC thinners that only thin and convey the
paint, they do not isolate the isocyanate's that can kill you. With AFS
paint, distilled water used to thin and deliver the paint and it also
captures the isocyanate's so they don't go after your lungs and tear
ducts. You can be harmed if you oversaturate your booth by not moving
air or forget to wear your respirator. Refer to the link below for more
information.
http://www.stewartshangar21.aero/AFS.htm
Regards,
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
Dave Ruddiman wrote:
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> Larry,
>
> You probably said this in a previous post, but what paint did you use?
> Wasn't it the waterborne stuff. NICE PAINT JOB.
>
> Dave in rainy Salem
>
>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Painting N601EZ is finally done
>
>> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> N601EZ is finally painted and the annual inspection was finished this
>> morning.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Need a 601 conditional inspection work sheet |
Have a friend here at APV who needs a 601 / Rotax specific conditional
inspection work sheet(s). I have several from other models of Rocket &
RV's etc. but would like to make sure we have ALL the items listed &
accounted for. THANKS.
KABONG Do Not Archive (GBA & GWB)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
> It is said that the fuel gauge is the least accurate instrument in an
> airplane.
______________________________________________________
Seems the more the 601 has evolved the more they are prone to issues the
designer did not originally intend his aircraft to be.
Look back at the early 601 IP, notice something there that many of you do
not have on your "new & improved" planes?
That vertical tube on the IP is a clever, low cost, KISS design to monitor
your fuel supply. Yes just that simple sight gauge is all I run in my plane
for just that reason. Granted it's not 100% idiot proof but it's pretty darn
close.
Forget the fancy high dollar IP, leave that for the RV guys, stick to the
basics with this plane and KISS, it may just save your bacon someday.
Kelly Meiste
601 HD (150 hours)
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Chris Heintz added the wing tanks. Its hard to use a sight gauge on them.
-- Craig
Message 29
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| Subject: | Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Larry! - She's a thing of beauty!
Do not archive
Bob Percival
701 - plans - glacial pace
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Painting N601EZ is finally done
<larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi guys,
N601EZ is finally painted and the annual inspection was finished this
morning. There were questions about how much paint was added to the
airplane by weight. Until W& B this morning Id only measured thickness
from .0015 to .0025. The plane gained 15 lbs, not counting going to
thicker gear plate weldments 1-lb each, 6 lbs of wheel pants etc. The
empty weight for paint went from 729 lbs to 744 lbs. Thats 3 to 4 lbs
more than Id calculated for a1-1/2-gallon base coat, 1-gallon trim coat
and 2-gallons of primer. I had a quart of base color, a quart of white
primer and -gallon trim color left over. Idaho Snow and Bayou Blue.
Really pleased with the paint and the process. I made more work of it
(April to November) than most and nearly every mistake as well. Even so,
Id recommend the paint to anyone who wants to paint at home. Its very
forgiving and extremely tough. Most mistakes are repairable and the
process is consistent throughout. I was given a cell phone number for
24/7 tech support and used it more than once. Their manual is very good
and describes all the paint processes for the aluminum aircraft in
easily understood English.
I spent under $2800.00 for the paint, 2 paint guns, booth, fresh air
system, filters, lacquer thinner, distilled water, timer, spares et all,
etc. A chapter member builder wanting to paint his RV6 bought everything
but the DeVilbiss finish gun. The booth was marked for reassembly,
knocked down in the space of 2 hours, loaded into a pickup bed and was
gone within two days of mentioning it at a chapter meeting. This too
reduced the cost.
Its the paint job I wanted, without getting too near a professional
job. It cleans up well and improves what was becoming a scruffy
unpainted 601. There are several things to do like soundproofing and
completing the interior. Best recommendations, paint before flying if
you can. I know, it's just too much fun to stop, but youll save 100
hours of cleaning and surface prep.
Links below show the finished product and my paint page shows the booth,
special equipment and processes involved.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezfrontright.gif
Anyway, I had to show it to you,
Happy flying,
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
Message 30
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|
I just had an interesting thing happen with fuel. One of the drains was leaking
during the last flight I took in the PA28-140 I just started flying. I noticed
it after stopping to drop off the CFI who just gave me my biennial. He told
me to look the plane over that we had just spent 2 hours in and I found a blue
streak of moisture on the bottom of the fuseleage. The forward drain, buy
the cowl, did not seal when I checked the sumps. He told me I needed to let
them snap shut, (I didn't know). The fuel burn was quite high for the first
2 hours but I still had plenty of fuel. I guess the point is anything can happen.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76248#76248
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Painting N601EZ is finally done |
Looking good Larry. Very inspiring!
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76250#76250
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot for CH701 |
Hello Les,
I fly a 701 with Navaid Autopilot and GPS conection, the Navaid is also an alerion
autopilot, no need for the rudder in the corrections that the AP makes.
Another 2 good local examples are a Kitfox and a Tecman (Italian high wing),
both with same brand of AP (Navaid) they also keep track of the GPS route perfectly.
Dont worry, probably the EZ- Pilot is similar, will work fine.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Les Goldner <lgold@quantum-associates.com> wrote:
If you have an autopilot on your CH701, how well does it work?
I am about half finished with my CH701 and have been eyeing inexpensive autopilots
like the EZ-Pilot. However, EZ holds a course with aileron-only control.
I currently fly (and built) a Challenger II LSA that also has full-wing length
combined flap-ailerons (flapperons). My Challenger won't hold a course without
applying rudder. In fact, if you give it a little right aileron without rudder,
the plane will actually go a little left.
I would like to know how well the EZ-Pilot, or any other inexpensive autopilot,
works on a 701.
Les
---------------------------------
Message 33
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| Subject: | Sensitive Elevator |
Hi All wise ones.....
I now have over 50hrs on my 601XL, and am loving every minute., but have been
woundering if I could make it better?
The Elevator is very sensitive, in comparison to the Ailerons, I am sure
everyone will agree with me, now this in itself is not an issue, as I have
become used to the elevator, and in normal smooth flight it is not an issue at
all.
This last weekend I flew in quite severe turbulence, you know the head hitting
the canopy type of turbulence. This in itself is not an issue for the XL, as it
is very controllable in turbulence, except I feel that due to the overly
sensitive elevator, me as pilot in command tended to induce pitch oscillations.
The amount of movement on the stick (I have the dual stick option), for flare
and normal flight, is very little, thus would it not be a good idea to reduce
the snsitivity around neutral, by reducing the size of the front bellcrank. The
belcrank that the two cables attach to, in the centre console, the one the
centre single stick is attached to. This would result in the stick having to be
moved a greater distance, for the same elevator deflection. Hence reducing the
sesitivity around neutral.
The same could be achieved by increasing the horn length on the elevator itself,
but this seems like a lot more work. I think cutting down the horn size, or
making another, and fitting it for testing could be an easily achieved option.
Has anyone done this, and what do you guys think of the idea?
Thnx
Jonathan Starke
601XL Rotax 912S 50+ Hrs
Cape Town
South Africa.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot for CH701 |
Sorry Bob, was close, is a Navaid... :-)
Yes, as I posted just a few mails ago, is very good, will have one also in the
601 XL we are building.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
nyterminat@aol.com wrote:
Les,
I have a Century 1 autopilot that works pretty well. If I had to do it again
I would go for one of the newer digital A/P units. The Century 1 is a little twitchy
because it doesn't take much motion to move the stick. I will be playing
with the linkage this winter to make this better. No rudder needed to make turns.
I think Gary in Mexico uses the EZpilot.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/ 912S 87hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: lgold@quantum-associates.com
Sent: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Autopilot for CH701
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#DADAD6 !important; } If you have an autopilot on your CH701,
how well does it work?
I am about half finished with my CH701 and have been eyeing inexpensive autopilots
like the EZ-Pilot. However, EZ holds a course with aileron-only control.
I currently fly (and built) a Challenger II LSA that also has full-wing length
combined flap-ailerons (flapperons). My Challenger won't hold a course without
applying rudder. In fact, if you give it a little right aileron without rudder,
the plane will actually go a little left.
I would like to know how well the EZ-Pilot, or any other inexpensive autopilot,
works on a 701.
Les
---------------------------------
Want a degree but can't afford to quit? Online degrees from top schools - in as
fast as 1 year
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Felow,
pilots,
regardless of whether you buy off site or not, The Pilot is responsible for checking
fuel before takeoff! No excuses!
I have fuel off site and I have lugged many times a fuel can with gas to ensure
when I take off at Least 1 hour of fuel plus reserve!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Nov 21, 2006 6:06 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FW: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
>
>We need to consider that there are no FBO or any other services available at
>Sky Bryce Airport where N601VA was based. The MASPL custom was to fuel up
>at the New Market Airport nearby. Jeff Davidson
>
>
>
>Others wrote:
>
>I have to respfully disagree, I believe the rule should be: ALWAYS KNOW
>WHAT FUEL IS IN YOUR SHIP BEFORE YOU TAKEOFF! Fueling when you put your
>ship away is no guarantee that the fuel will be there for the NEXT flight.
><snip>
>
>
>
>NEVER,NEVER leave the ground with anything less then full tanks, not even if
>you are just going for a 5 min flight. Get in the habit of calling for a
>fuel truck when your heading for your apron, or pull up to the pumps before
>putting your plane to bed, but always leave your tanks FULL after each
>flight. <snip>
>
>
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