Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:03 AM - Door Dimensions, Front Open, Location of Doors, Rear Closed, Rear Open (JOHN STARN)
2. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: Re: Fresh Air (Trainnut01@aol.com)
3. 07:36 AM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (leinad)
4. 07:50 AM - Re: Bonnets (Bill Naumuk)
5. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Fuel System (Bill Naumuk)
6. 08:26 AM - Re: Need a 601 conditional inspection work sheet (David X)
7. 08:49 AM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (David X)
8. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: Fuel System (Jeff)
9. 09:11 AM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (David X)
10. 09:17 AM - Re: Jim Pellien Crash (David X)
11. 09:19 AM - Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash/ fuel pump location? (David X)
12. 09:19 AM - reflective stripes (john butterfield)
13. 09:44 AM - Re: Fuel Check (Grant Corriveau)
14. 10:05 AM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Gig Giacona)
15. 10:26 AM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
16. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Fuel System (Gary Gower)
17. 11:00 AM - Low Fuel Alarm. (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 11:30 AM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Tim Juhl)
19. 11:57 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Gary Gower)
20. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Re: Fresh Air (Juan Vega)
21. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Juan Vega)
22. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ don't second guess (Big Gee)
23. 04:53 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Trainnut01@aol.com)
24. 04:53 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
25. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Check (Noel Loveys)
26. 05:05 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Juan Vega)
27. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: Jim Pellien Crash (Noel Loveys)
28. 05:14 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Trainnut01@aol.com)
29. 05:33 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Paul Mulwitz)
30. 06:27 PM - Re: Re: Jim Pellien Crash (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
31. 06:30 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
32. 06:47 PM - Re: Low fuel alarm (MaxNr@aol.com)
33. 08:35 PM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (David X)
34. 08:43 PM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (David X)
35. 09:09 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Gary Gower)
36. 09:33 PM - Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (David X)
37. 10:13 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
38. 11:06 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (David X)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Door Dimensions, Front Open, Location of Doors, Rear Closed, |
Rear Open
Please note the date of original post. I'm no longer with earthlink and the
plane has been painted to flown to OSH. Used KISS method, sealed by
spreading sealant (we used black RTV & trimmed any excess once the door was
closed ), covering with saran wrap, closing to door & allowed to dry. Open &
remove plastic. No air leaks when closed at 200 kts plus.
This is posted on the RV list. KABONG (GBA & GWB) HRII 300 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Subject: Emailing: Door Dimensions, Front Open, Location of Doors, Rear
Closed, Rear Open
> Here's the air vents. KABONG
> Your files are attached and ready to send with this message.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Fresh Air |
Brandon
Yes they were sealed with silicone. But I couldn't get them to stay sealed.
After a few weeks the silicone would flake off and would have to be
re-applied. You are probably right about being in San Diego, but Tennessee in
January
with an OAT around 10 degrees or less it doesn't take much of an air leak to
put goose bumps on your skin. I have a friend in the Chicago area who takes
the hoses off of his NACA ducts in the winter and tapes them shut.
He says he may be the first person in history to use duct tape to tape ducts.
Carroll
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
Jonathan,
Occilations are an indication of the CG getting too far aft causing instability
in the pitch axis? Had you checked the weight and ballance?
Dan
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
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Oh, yeah.
Do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bonnets
Interesting. I'll try that if the flannel bonnets don't work. Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bonnets
I didn't use a bonnet on my plane for the compounding buffer. I used
a wool buffing pad, the velcro backed type. This is woat was recommended
by Nuvite.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Polishers-
I'm having no luck using my rotary polisher- bonnet life is
nonexistant. All I have to do is go over a rivet and I'm done for.
Bonnet shreds in no time. God help you if you catch a sheet metal edge-
bonnet shreds immediately
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Fuel System |
Amen.
It all comes down to luck. Unless you've tapdanced your way through
the same emergency situation before, you're at a disadvantage. I know
that if I were Jim, I would have done the best job I could with what I
had to work with.
I'm far from God's choice of pilots. Are you?
He who casts the first stone...
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Tucker
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 1:05 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Fuel System
I fly two Beech Travel Air biplanes just about every weekend for a
local tour company. The newer model was built in 1929. They both use
header tanks - and not just 15 gallons. They are 42 gallons. The old
plane has been in operation for 79 years without any problems - with a
header tank. There are several people on the list that do not like the
idea of fuel in the cockpit. There are others that have run wing tanks
dry due to fuel valve mismanagement. It is a matter of preference.
As for all the Monday morning quarterbacking on Jim's incident.
Why don't we all stop kicking the corpse. For all we know, he developed
an undetectable leak. We all know that we should, and how to check our
fuel levels before takeoff. It is a useless thread. The only people
that are quicker to crucify incident pilots than the media are other
pilots.
R/
Brandon
601 HDS flight testing.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Need a 601 conditional inspection work sheet |
For the engine, use the check list from the Rotax maintenance manual. You'll also
have to check all the service bulitins to find out which are applicable to
the serial number on your engine.
Service bulitins: http://www.rotax-owner.com/
Serivce Manuals: http://www.kodiakbs.com/tiintro.htm
For the airframe, use the checklist in CFR Title 14 Part 43, Appendix D: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/ecfr/index.html
[quote="jhstarn(at)verizon.net"]Have a friend here at APV who needs a 601 / Rotax
specific conditional inspection work sheet(s). I have several from other models
of Rocket & RV's etc. but would like to make sure we have ALL the items
listed & accounted for. THANKS.
KABONG Do Not Archive (GBA & GWB)
> [b]
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
Ive flown about 250 hours in my 601XL. In August, I flew the little bird from Albany,
NY to Roseburg, OR and back to Princeton, NJ (many stops along the way,
obviously). The flight across the divide and into Missoula was a thrill of a
lifetime. Anyway, the point is that I hit some rough stuff on more than a few
occasions and I know exactly what you mean.
The tendency is to grab the stick tighter during turbulence; which frankly makes
things worse. If the plane is trimmed, there is no need for more than a light
touch ... even during turbulence. Relaxation is the key. You have to get into
the habit of using only the thumb and forefinger on the stick. You know the
plane isn't going to do anything unusual ... so just keep a loose grip and go
with it.
Watch your inclinometer during those rough patches. You'll find that the use of
rudder is often much more appropriate than the use of ailerons. 3 hours across
Kansas in 104 degree weather was the best rudder lesson I ever had. I thought
I knew how to fly the Zodiac before, but was sure I knew after. :)
Leave the elevator geometry alone. The designer made it that way for a very good
reason. In slow flight and unusual attitude situations, you will need that extra
travel and command.
Safe flying.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Message 8
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Brandon,
With all due respect, I beg to differ. I don't think anyone is
kicking the corpse here and I also think the thread is useful if viewed in a
constructive fashion. I am a MASPL customer and was checked out in N601VA.
My previous post may have been too obscure to be clear. It noted that fuel
is not available at Sky Bryce. Fuel exhaustion evidently was a factor in
the accident. This reaffirms one of the tendencies that the FAA warns about
in their Fundamentals of Instruction required for the CFI rating. Even when
taking a short pleasure flight, we need to treat every flight with the same
preflight precautions. Various factors go into the IMSAFE calculation that
we all make prior to each flight, but situational factors beyond our control
may influence us to make less that perfect decisions. We all need to be
aware of that. This is of particular importance at Sky Bryce, a beautiful
full-season resort. For those of us flying off airstrips or airports
without services, and that is an important part of the Zenith community
culture, this is especially important. Each accident is an opportunity for
us to review our own procedures.
As Samuel Johnson said, people more often need to be reminded
that informed.
Jeff Davidson
PS: Happy Thanksgiving to all those that celebrate this Holiday today!
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 1:06 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Fuel System
I fly two Beech Travel Air biplanes just about every weekend for a local
tour company. The newer model was built in 1929. They both use header
tanks - and not just 15 gallons. They are 42 gallons. The old plane has
been in operation for 79 years without any problems - with a header tank.
There are several people on the list that do not like the idea of fuel in
the cockpit. There are others that have run wing tanks dry due to fuel
valve mismanagement. It is a matter of preference.
As for all the Monday morning quarterbacking on Jim's incident. Why
don't we all stop kicking the corpse. For all we know, he developed an
undetectable leak. We all know that we should, and how to check our fuel
levels before takeoff. It is a useless thread. The only people that are
quicker to crucify incident pilots than the media are other pilots.
R/
Brandon
601 HDS flight testing.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Gig Giacona wrote:
> ... did anybody even realize that you could get the plane to the point where
it only had two ounces of fuel on board?
Read a little more carefully. It says that they recovered two ounces from the carb
bowl, lines etc for testing. It doesn't say that there was only two ounces
total onboard. The tanks have 1/2 gallon unusable, each.
The empty lines along with the scant amount in the filter and bowls is a clear
indication that no fuel was getting to the engine.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Re: Jim Pellien Crash |
To all you ignorant scare-mongers who were trying to insinuate that the wings fell
off or that the 601 was somehow a death trap ... go [expletive deleted] your
self. What a crying shame that it had to end this way for Jim, or any pilot.
A lesson for us all.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB preliminary report on XL crash/ fuel pump location? |
Engine side of the firewall.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Message 12
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| Subject: | reflective stripes |
hi list
i am going to start painting my machine soon and was
wondering if any of you have used reflective tape for
your trim. it seems it would be very visible at night
and some of the suppliers of this product state it
will stay on the aircraft at speeds under 200 mph.
there is also a varity of sizes and colors available.
i plan to use the water based paint and paint it all
white before assembly
john butterfield
601XL,corvair
torrance, ca
Message 13
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One challenge you will find, with dipping the tanks on the 601HDS
model, is that due to the leading edge wing tank geometry, the tank
can be almost half full before any fuel reaches the far (upper
outboard) end beneath the cap. In fact when I look in and see fuel
just barely reaching the bottom outside end, I know I have about 1/2
a tank. I've debated making some sort of a longer probe that would
insert to the very bottom/inboard end of the tank, but I'm afraid it
might get tangled up with the float system on the qty. indicator. fwiw.
Grant Corriveau
GHTF - 601HDS - CAM100
On 22-Nov-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Check
> From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>
>
> Need a fuel stick? You can order 3/8 " diameter clear acrylic
> tubing from Aircraft
> Spruce that does a nice job. Just stick it in, put your finger over
> the top
> hole, pull it out and read the level.
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com/wings_n_things/
---------------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I read the report very carefully. It may be poor writing on the part of the report
writers but they clearly state "No evidence of fuel in
the low points of the system was discovered and the fuel tanks were dry
and absent of fuel."
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Folks why are we assuming Jim departed with no fuel? Is it because there was
only 2 oz of fuel in the carb bowl? Or that the tanks were empty? or no fuel
in the lines? Well, first off I think it is sad that some people on this list
would even try and assume what they would do 200 feet off the deck over
trees with an engine out. If you have never had it happen STFU you would most
likely have to change yourself afterwards and you most likely have never been
that scared in your life. Now as for the missing fuel .... He might have only
used 1 tank due to the fact it was a short flight the other could have been
bone dry at take off, He might have developed a fuel leak after the pumps and
it sprayed fuel in such a way as to be detected after the crash thus emptying
the system faster than he could land. Bottom line is we assume he took off
dry and that is an insult to someone that can't speak out for themselves. Why
not send a our thoughts and prayers are with your family during this holiday
season NOT Jim Pellien crash speculation.
Jeff
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Fuel System |
This reminds me about something I once read in internet:
"Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident,
we should all keep one thing in mind.
He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment.
He believed in it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it.
That his judgment was faulty is a tragedy, not stupidity.
Every instructor, supervisor, pilot, and contemporary who ever spoke to him,
had an opportunity to influence his judgment,
so a little bit of all of us goes with every pilot we lose."
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote: Amen.
It all comes down to luck. Unless you've tapdanced your way through the same
emergency situation before, you're at a disadvantage. I know that if I were
Jim, I would have done the best job I could with what I had to work with.
I'm far from God's choice of pilots. Are you?
He who casts the first stone...
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Tucker
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 1:05 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Fuel System
I fly two Beech Travel Air biplanes just about every weekend for a local
tour company. The newer model was built in 1929. They both use header tanks
- and not just 15 gallons. They are 42 gallons. The old plane has been
in operation for 79 years without any problems - with a header tank. There
are several people on the list that do not like the idea of fuel in the cockpit.
There are others that have run wing tanks dry due to fuel valve mismanagement.
It is a matter of preference.
As for all the Monday morning quarterbacking on Jim's incident. Why
don't we all stop kicking the corpse. For all we know, he developed an undetectable
leak. We all know that we should, and how to check our fuel levels
before takeoff. It is a useless thread. The only people that are quicker
to crucify incident pilots than the media are other pilots.
R/
Brandon
601 HDS flight testing.
---------------------------------
Message 17
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I wonder if the lesson of fuel starvation can be used to give us all
a safer future. Rather than focus on how much fuel we have before
takeoff or making sure we constantly look at the boring fuel gauges
it might be nice to look at the possibility of having electronics in
our planes warn us if fuel is running low. It seems even a few
minutes warning of low fuel would be sufficient to find a
satisfactory place to land.
I don't know what is available on the market today. Perhaps other
listers can tell us if there is a low cost and/or reasonable piece of
equipment that can give a low fuel warning. I know there are many
fuel monitoring devices, but I don't know which are low enough in
cost, dependable, and easy enough to use to be of great value.
What about the fancy new engine monitoring systems? Do they provide
low fuel alarms?
I hope anyone with knowledge or ideas on this question will speak up.
Paul
XL fuselage
-
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I don't believe any offense was intended to Jim. As in most things, "there but
for fortune go you or I." I believe most people's comments are directed to the
fear we all have of inadvertant fuel exhaustion caused either by lack of fuel
or some failure of the fuel system. Just read some of the other threads on
this site and you'll see what I mean.
It is infortunate that many of the lessons we've learned about flying have come
at the expense of tragedy to another. Jim's unfortunate demise has us all thinking
about fuel management and fuel system design..... perhaps the lessons learned
from these discussions will save the life of another....let us be thankful
for that.
Tim Juhl
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Working on wings
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
In the Kitfox They have a one galon tank where the two wing tanks hoses joint,
in the back side of the seat back, This tank has a float switch with a light
(and buzzer) in the panel. also has a drain for the fuel there.
Will go on with about 10 minutes flying time left (given about 5 galon and hour
in the 912 Rotax).
Something similar can be made for the 701, dont know how something can be designed
in the low wing 601... .
Saludos
Gary Gower.
I wonder if the lesson of fuel starvation can be used to give us all
a safer future. Rather than focus on how much fuel we have before
takeoff or making sure we constantly look at the boring fuel gauges
it might be nice to look at the possibility of having electronics in
our planes warn us if fuel is running low. It seems even a few
minutes warning of low fuel would be sufficient to find a
satisfactory place to land.
I don't know what is available on the market today. Perhaps other
listers can tell us if there is a low cost and/or reasonable piece of
equipment that can give a low fuel warning. I know there are many
fuel monitoring devices, but I don't know which are low enough in
cost, dependable, and easy enough to use to be of great value.
What about the fancy new engine monitoring systems? Do they provide
low fuel alarms?
I hope anyone with knowledge or ideas on this question will speak up.
Paul
XL fuselage
---------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Fresh Air |
VR and Carroll,
I have used Proseal, Silicone tends to dry7 out in the Florida heat and crack.
In fact Proseal is the only thing holding the vent in place.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 23, 2006 12:52 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: Fresh Air
>
>Carroll,
>
> Did you seal the eyeball vents with silicon? I have not done it yet, but
the documentation supplied with the system gave a pretty clear explanation
on how to do it. Living in San Diego, I don't worry about it much...
>
> VR/
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
Davud,
do you have any good pics of the trip. Sounds like a fun one.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: David X <dxj@comcast.net>
>Sent: Nov 23, 2006 11:48 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator
>
>
>Ive flown about 250 hours in my 601XL. In August, I flew the little bird from
Albany, NY to Roseburg, OR and back to Princeton, NJ (many stops along the way,
obviously). The flight across the divide and into Missoula was a thrill of a
lifetime. Anyway, the point is that I hit some rough stuff on more than a few
occasions and I know exactly what you mean.
>
>The tendency is to grab the stick tighter during turbulence; which frankly makes
things worse. If the plane is trimmed, there is no need for more than a light
touch ... even during turbulence. Relaxation is the key. You have to get into
the habit of using only the thumb and forefinger on the stick. You know the
plane isn't going to do anything unusual ... so just keep a loose grip and go
with it.
>
>Watch your inclinometer during those rough patches. You'll find that the use of
rudder is often much more appropriate than the use of ailerons. 3 hours across
Kansas in 104 degree weather was the best rudder lesson I ever had. I thought
I knew how to fly the Zodiac before, but was sure I knew after. :)
>
>Leave the elevator geometry alone. The designer made it that way for a very good
reason. In slow flight and unusual attitude situations, you will need that
extra travel and command.
>
>Safe flying.
>
>--------
>Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76538#76538
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ don't second guess |
List,=0AI think it is wrong to second guess what Jim did do or didn't do. I
t becomes an emotional topic because you are "dammed if you do", and "damme
d if you don"t" say anything. We don't know if Jim used poor preflight pro
cedures, or had some type of leak which caused fuel to leak from the tanks
while he was flying.----- Either way, he ran out of fuel, and was at an uns
afe altitude.=0A=0AThe second question is: Did Jim fly the airplane to the
very last minute, or did he panic and stall the airplane while close to th
e ground. We don't have the answers.=0A=0ABut, this I will say. The list
has spent a lot of time speculating on Jim's accident. Yet, the AMD 601 wi
th the inflight explosion, the airplane came apart in flight, a man and his
wife was killed isn't even mentioned here-------------- I believe there is
a lot to be learned from that accident. (to bad we'll have to wait so long
for the NTSB to have a final report on both on these unforunate accidents.
)=0A=0AI mentioned in the past that every pilot/ homebuider should have two
(sets)books and read them.=0A (1) STICK and RUDDER, by Wolfgang Langewie
sche and (2) the set of 4 books sold by Aircraft Spruce written by TONY BI
NGELIS. This led to a big "thread" on this site. Half saying the Sick and
Rudder was great, the other half talking like they knew it all and didn'
t need the books.=0A=0AI know I'll get flamed for this, but: I think the i
nformaion from those those two authors and the knowledge available form Wil
liam Wynne (directly, written and video) can keep a lot of folks out of tr
ouble. I think that many forget a "private pilots license" should be the
beginning of learning how to fly, not the highlight of our learning curve.
=0A=0AFritz=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci
.net>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 2
:29:32 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL c
=0A=0AI don't believe any offense was intended to Jim. As in most things,
"there but for fortune go you or I." I believe most people's comments are
directed to the fear we all have of inadvertant fuel exhaustion caused eith
er by lack of fuel or some failure of the fuel system. Just read some of t
he other threads on this site and you'll see what I mean.=0A=0AIt is infort
unate that many of the lessons we've learned about flying have come at the
expense of tragedy to another. Jim's unfortunate demise has us all thinkin
g about fuel management and fuel system design..... perhaps the lessons lea
rned from these discussions will save the life of another....let us be than
kful for that.=0A=0ATim Juhl=0A=0A--------=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A_____________
_=0ACFII=0AChamp L16A flying=0AZodiac XL - Working on wings=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AR
ead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?
=========================0A
===============0A=0A=0A =0A____________________
________________________________________________________________=0AYahoo! M
mited
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Paul
My RV is equipped with float switches that turn on a warning light on the
panel when there is about three gallons remaining. The switches are available
from Aircraft Spruce. They have a pivoting float with a magnet that closes a
reed switch when the float gets down to a certain point. I mounted them in the
ends of the tanks with weld able flanges. (Also aircraft spruce) However I
did not weld the flanges to the tanks. The flanges are wide enough that there
was plenty of room to drill and tap them and fastened them in with screws. I
sealed them in with Pro Seal.
Aircraft Spruce also has an optical system for detecting a low fuel level.
It works (I think) by directing light into the fuel tank and looking for a
reflection. It was more expensive than the switches.
I plan to use the same float switch system on my 601XL
Carroll Jernigan
XL Corvair
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Hello Paul:
I always enjoy your posts - keep them coming !
Seems to me the only way a low fuel alarm would be any good is to improve
the quality of the signal being used to evaluate the amount of usuable fuel
available....simply put - better fuel level monitoring ! Since we all agree
the fuel gauges in most GA aircraft are damn near worthless, we need to improve
on the reliability of that signal (including the design of the fuel tanks to
minimize inaccuracies) before sounding any kind of alarm.
The best all-around answer seems to me to be a combination of a VERY
accurate fuel level monitor which works primarily on the ground to determine fuel
available at the start of flight, and then highly accurate inflight monitoring
of consumption, working it's way down to an alarm status. This seems to be
suited perfectly to engine management technology.
Only my opinion - flame away !!
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved)
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 11/23/2006 2:02:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I wonder if the lesson of fuel starvation can be used to give us all
a safer future. Rather than focus on how much fuel we have before
takeoff or making sure we constantly look at the boring fuel gauges
it might be nice to look at the possibility of having electronics in
our planes warn us if fuel is running low. It seems even a few
minutes warning of low fuel would be sufficient to find a
satisfactory place to land.
I don't know what is available on the market today. Perhaps other
listers can tell us if there is a low cost and/or reasonable piece of
equipment that can give a low fuel warning. I know there are many
fuel monitoring devices, but I don't know which are low enough in
cost, dependable, and easy enough to use to be of great value.
What about the fancy new engine monitoring systems? Do they provide
low fuel alarms?
I hope anyone with knowledge or ideas on this question will speak up.
Paul
XL fuselage
Message 25
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|
I guess there are a couple of ways to accurately estimate the fuel
reserve.
The one I like is the capacitance fuel indicator. For this to work on
the
601 you would need two probes for each tank one for the inside of the
tanks
and one for the outside of the tanks. These fuel level systems require
a
small reference probe at the lowest level. the good news about the
reference probe is because it is at the lowest level of the tank system
any
water in the tanks can be immediately indicated.
On the other hand taking the caps off and looking inside with one of
those
new explosion proof LED flashlights works pretty good too! Just be sure
to
get the sealed one!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Corriveau
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Check
One challenge you will find, with dipping the tanks on the 601HDS model,
is
that due to the leading edge wing tank geometry, the tank can be almost
half
full before any fuel reaches the far (upper outboard) end beneath the
cap.
In fact when I look in and see fuel just barely reaching the bottom
outside
end, I know I have about 1/2 a tank. I've debated making some sort of a
longer probe that would insert to the very bottom/inboard end of the
tank,
but I'm afraid it might get tangled up with the float system on the qty.
indicator. fwiw.
Grant Corriveau
GHTF - 601HDS - CAM100
On 22-Nov-06, at 11:58 PM, Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Check
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Need a fuel stick? You can order 3/8 " diameter clear acrylic tubing
from
Aircraft
Spruce that does a nice job. Just stick it in, put your finger over the
top
hole, pull it out and read the level.
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau@telus.net
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com/wings_n_things/
---------------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
becasue a plane can't sit stil ina X,Y,Z axis. Fuel guages are historically unreliable.
The only thing I have seen work is a fuel flow meter which measures
the use of engine. So you the pilot can determine the fuel left based on the
fuel burned. Dynons and other EFIS systems offer the programs for it. The best
way is to be a pilot, not a driver. Meaning we as pilots historically have
been navigators and aviators that relyed on intuition and mathematic measurement
to achieve successful flying trips. There is no easy machine yelling "Bingo"
in GA that is fuel starvation proof. measure what fuel you put in, calculate
your fuel burn and fly the flight plan. that is the best approach, and deterance,
against dead sticking it for lack of fuel.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Sent: Nov 23, 2006 2:00 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm.
>
>
>I wonder if the lesson of fuel starvation can be used to give us all
>a safer future. Rather than focus on how much fuel we have before
>takeoff or making sure we constantly look at the boring fuel gauges
>it might be nice to look at the possibility of having electronics in
>our planes warn us if fuel is running low. It seems even a few
>minutes warning of low fuel would be sufficient to find a
>satisfactory place to land.
>
>I don't know what is available on the market today. Perhaps other
>listers can tell us if there is a low cost and/or reasonable piece of
>equipment that can give a low fuel warning. I know there are many
>fuel monitoring devices, but I don't know which are low enough in
>cost, dependable, and easy enough to use to be of great value.
>
>What about the fancy new engine monitoring systems? Do they provide
>low fuel alarms?
>
>I hope anyone with knowledge or ideas on this question will speak up.
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>
>
>-
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Jim Pellien Crash |
We had a crash at a local airport involving a student and instructor a few
years ago. At that time we were requested by the flight school to say
nothing until the final report was published. Sounded like good advice then
... Still does now!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David X
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 1:47 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jim Pellien Crash
>
>
>
> To all you ignorant scare-mongers who were trying to
> insinuate that the wings fell off or that the 601 was somehow
> a death trap ... go [expletive deleted] your self. What a
> crying shame that it had to end this way for Jim, or any
> pilot. A lesson for us all.
>
> --------
> Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76544#76544
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Paul
I'm going to add one more picture. The two lights just below the fuel
indicators are the low fuel warning lights. The button between them is a "push
to
test". The lights appear to be red in the picture but they are actually orange.
Carroll
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Hi Tracy,
Thanks for the kind words.
I guess I should expand my original thoughts a little.
First let me say I agree with the notion that fuel gauges are not
accurate. However, since we build our own planes we can adjust the
senders to indicate what we want. I chose to set mine so they were
reasonably accurate on the empty side and not necessarily much use
when the tanks are full. Of course, I did this because I have much
better ways to tell when the tanks are full - by removing the filler
cap and looking.
Even so, I know I don't spend a lot of time looking at the fuel
gauges when flying. Indeed, I don't look at any of the non-flight
instruments unless something prompts me to look. That is why I like
the idea of electronics to watch the fuel quantity along with other
boring stuff like oil temperature, alternator function, battery
charge (HMMMMM, I wonder if this is available), CHT, EGT, and similar
stuff. I was just reading specifications for the Dynon monitoring
system and it will do most of these things. It seems well worth the
price to me. I would rather use my eyes to look for aluminum clouds.
I have always depended on flight planning to insure sufficient fuel
for any flight. This is really easy if you know your plane holds 4
hours of fuel and your bladder is worthless after 2 hours. A life
long habit of filling the tanks for each flight works well with this
scenario. Still there is always the possibility of a fuel leak (or
missing gas cap) spoiling your plan. It would be nice for the
instruments to jump up and down and say "Watch it chum, fuel is nearly gone."
Paul
XL fuselage
At 04:53 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote:
>Hello Paul:
>
>I always enjoy your posts - keep them coming !
>
>Seems to me the only way a low fuel alarm would be any good is to
>improve the quality of the signal being used to evaluate the amount
>of usuable fuel available....simply put - better fuel level
>monitoring ! Since we all agree the fuel gauges in most GA
>aircraft are damn near worthless, we need to improve on the
>reliability of that signal (including the design of the fuel tanks
>to minimize inaccuracies) before sounding any kind of alarm.
>
>The best all-around answer seems to me to be a combination of a VERY
>accurate fuel level monitor which works primarily on the ground to
>determine fuel available at the start of flight, and then highly
>accurate inflight monitoring of consumption, working it's way down
>to an alarm status. This seems to be suited perfectly to engine
>management technology.
>
>Only my opinion - flame away !!
>
>Tracy Smith
>N458XL (reserved)
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Jim Pellien Crash |
Amen
The NTSB report only says no fuel present they didn't say he didn't, he did,
he should have, in other words anything other than that is pure conjecture
and has no place here or any where. As far as me rethinking my fuel system
since the crash.... I haven't and if I had to it was flawed from the start.
Someone said he was flying at an unsafe altitude how the hell do you know that.
Well, I'm done talking about this subject as we all should be. We know we are
REQUIRED to check our fuel before flight and if we don't we shouldn't be
behind the controls of an airplane, car or anything else. So Jim's crash didn't
change the way I will do a preflight or the way I am building my fuel system
because I do it by the book.
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
I believe the FAR's states that fuel senders are required to read empty
accurately it doesn't matter after that. Don't quote me on that don't have the
book in front of me.
Do not archive
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Low fuel alarm |
Turbine aircraft measure fuel LEVEL by capacitance systems and are
periodically calibrated with a screwdriver to be right on.
They also have a separate low level WARNING system that is a float system and
lights a light to indicate 10 to 20 minute level.
If the gauge reads low and the light is out, go with the gauge. Float may be
sticking. If the light comes on and the gauge says plenty, go with the low
light. There may be water in suspension in the fuel causing a high reading. Water
and fuel have different resistance.
Bob Dingley
XL / Lyc
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
I have a few. Look for my blog and pics here: http://www.myspace.com/601nj
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> David,
> do you have any good pics of the trip. Sounds like a fun one.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76628#76628
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Uh huh ... whatever.
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I read the report very carefully.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76630#76630
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Hello Carroll,
Great idea... Do you have a part number, or where to look at the ASpruce catalog?
as Float Switch? Good idea, even if need to open a inspection window
in the lower part of the wing to install it... (plane already flying).
Just one question, Does the normal gasoline movement in turbulence could switch
it on before time? Anyone already flying with them installed to ask?
The 701 is my first light plane that has no fisical gasoline level at eye sight
from the cabin, will like to improve this if possible...
I always fly with lots of fuel, but a leak or carburator problem (or both) can
probably cut your range in half...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Trainnut01@aol.com wrote: Paul
My RV is equipped with float switches that turn on a warning light on the panel
when there is about three gallons remaining. The switches are available from
Aircraft Spruce. They have a pivoting float with a magnet that closes a reed
switch when the float gets down to a certain point. I mounted them in the
ends of the tanks with weld able flanges. (Also aircraft spruce) However I did
not weld the flanges to the tanks. The flanges are wide enough that there was
plenty of room to drill and tap them and fastened them in with screws. I sealed
them in with Pro Seal.
Aircraft Spruce also has an optical system for detecting a low fuel level. It
works (I think) by directing light into the fuel tank and looking for a reflection.
It was more expensive than the switches.
I plan to use the same float switch system on my 601XL
Carroll Jernigan
XL Corvair
---------------------------------
Message 36
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| Subject: | Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
Althought the trip was in August, I didn't post it in this forum because, frankly,
a number of you out there are pricks. One guy went so far as to tell me I
was full of 5h!t. Yet others complain that the pictures clog their stone-age 300
baud modems. If you're one of those ... take a deep breath ... count to 10
... and call a shrink.
With all this gloom over crashes lately, I think we need a reminder once in a while
about the joy and freedom of flying. The trip was a life-long dream of mine.
My story and pics follow:
--------------------------------------------------
Some of you may know that I recently completed a cross-country trip in my 601 from
Albany, NY to Roseburg, Oregon and back to Princeton, NJ crossing the Rockies
twice. It was the culmination of a long held dream of mine. Three months
later, I still marvel at the adventure.
Total fly time was 35 hours spread out over two weeks. I made about a dozen stops
on the round trip adventure, with a few longer stops to visit family here and
there. I found it hard to fly high altitudes every day (diminished oxygen),
day after day. It wears on you. I found that I could only practically fly 6 to
7 hours maximum in a given day due to shear exhaustion. But what glorious hours
they were, at times, and what miserable hours they were at other times.
I learned a lot about weather and got pretty good at dodging it after a while.
Although I had to divert to an alternate airport more than once due to bad weather,
it soon became a game of checkers after a while trying to position my aircraft
for good weather the following day. There were a few rough weather situations
that just kicked my ass in that light aircraft, though.
For example: On day three, I was flying across Kansas trying to stay south of a
nasty weather system stalled over Nebraska and Northern Colorado. A southerly
flow was pushing up from Arizona and clashing with a Canadian cold front coming
down through the Dakotas. It made for nasty and unpredictable weather not
something you want to fly a little plane near.
As the day wore on, the clouds thickened and I had to go below them on my way to
Manhattan, Kansas. The ride was very rough and my rudder was getting a workout
as I struggled to keep things straight and level amongst the bumps and gusts
and wind shear. When I landed, I popped open the canopy as I taxied to the FBO.
I parked and let the breeze come in. Ahhhh! I said to the attendant. The breeze
feels good and it's such a nice day. He said "Are you f***ing crazy!? The
surface temperature is 106F"! I laughed. That was a rough day and I was asleep
by 8:00 pm that night. zzzzzzzz
Navigating terrain was another skill that I honed during the trip. I felt like
a mouse in a maze sometimes having to negotiate terrain, thunder storms and forest
fires. From Kansas to Montana, I flew across progressively higher terrain
and stopped at several airfields that were more than 5000 feet in altitude. Bit
by bit I became accustomed to the more sluggish aircraft performance at higher
altitudes, and my confidence grew.
Crossing the Rockies for the first time was intimidating, nonetheless. But, I remembered
my training and spent plenty of time planning the route and alternate
routes. For every hour I spent flying, I probably spent an hour planning.
It was about 8:30AM and the little plane climbed to 11,200, willing and anxious
to climb yet more but I decided that I needed to breath so I didn't climb any
higher. I was very pleased with the aircraft performance. The view of the mountains
was glorious and the air was smooth. I couldn't have asked for much better
conditions.
The approach and landing at Missoula, Montana was probably the greatest thrill
I had in a long time. After crossing most of the Continental Divide, I meandered
through various valleys to arrive at the last pass before Missoula my final
destination that day.
My first choice to Missoula was blocked by a forest fire, so I had to take the
more narrow mountain pass. The cloud layer was thickening and lowering by the
hour. The mountain peaks were about 8,500, the clouds at 9,000, the valley at
about 4,000 and the pass only 6 to 8 miles wide. It was relatively tight fit meandering
through the s-shaped valley. It culminated in a 4,500 foot decent in
2.5 miles at full throttle to land at Missoula airport. When I got on the ground
and looked back at where I had just descended from, I yelled out loud. Yeeeehaw!
The next day flying out of Missoula was also a glorious day. I left early to take
advantage of the cool morning air. The aircraft climbed well as I navigated
through Lolo pass toward Idaho. It was probably the most serene day of the entire
trip. I took my headset off and listened to the wind and the engine. I forgot
about navigating and just followed the Lolo valley toward Wala Wala. It was
pure freedom! Oregon, here I come! To think that it took Louis and Clark nearly
a year to make the same trip I did in a few days.
The weather was good in the cascades, East Oregon so I changed my flight plans
and cut the corner instead of following the Columbia River to the West Coast.
I'm glad I did, because the views of Mount Shasta and Mount Hood were amazing.
Dormant volcanoes with smoky bases (forest fires) gave them an ominous look.
The return trip was equally beautiful, but mostly uneventful. The only technical
challenge was flying below the clouds at 3,500 feet along the West Coast and
following the Columbia River toward Idaho. Once I passed the cascades, the clouds
lifted and I was able to climb up higher where the air was smoother and the
view was better.
I took a more southerly route over the Rockies this time, following the high desert
of Central Idaho and crossing just West of Jackson Hole ... following the
interstate highway all the way to Billings. I kept a northerly route across the
Dakotas, taking a detour to fly over Crazy Horse Monument and Mount Rushmore.
I flew from Billings to Rapid City in one day, then to Youngstown, Ohio the next
day. The final leg into Princeton, New Jersey was like visiting an old friend
the terrain was familiar, like the back of my hand. I don't think I looked
at the compass or the map more than a few times the last leg across Pennsylvania
and New Jersey.
All in all, the trip exceeded my expectations. By mid-trip, I was navigating without
need of the GPS just me, a compass and a map. Avoiding bad weather was
soon second nature and the return flight was much more pleasant as a consequence.
Landing at Princeton, NJ my last stop was a bitter-sweet thing. What great memories.
Play time is over. Now I have to go back to making a living. Ug!
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
Hi David,
What an inspiring story. I too have dreams of
flying coast to coast in my own airplane. Alas,
I still need to finish building it and survive the flight testing.
Let me apologize for removing your request to not
store your story in the archive. This is just
the kind of story I think we all need. Thank you
for taking the time and effort to write it.
One technical question I would like to ask. How
did you find the weather information and do the
flight planning while so far from home? Were you
able to get access to the radar and weather maps
so easy to get on the Internet? Did you do it
all over the phone with FSS? (OK, it wasn't just one question)
Paul
XL still working on the fuselage. Maybe I'll
finish the plane next year. Then I can try to fly all that distance.
At 09:33 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote:
>
>Althought the trip was in August, I didn't post
>it in this forum because, frankly, a number of
>you out there are pricks. One guy went so far as
>to tell me I was full of 5h!t. Yet others
>complain that the pictures clog their stone-age
>300 baud modems. If you're one of those ... take
>a deep breath ... count to 10 ... and call a shrink.
>
>With all this gloom over crashes lately, I think
>we need a reminder once in a while about the joy
>and freedom of flying. The trip was a life-long
>dream of mine. My story and pics follow:
>--------------------------------------------------
>Some of you may know that I recently completed a
>cross-country trip in my 601 from Albany, NY to
>Roseburg, Oregon and back to Princeton, NJ
>crossing the Rockies twice. It was the
>culmination of a long held dream of mine. Three
>months later, I still marvel at the adventure.
>
>Total fly time was 35 hours spread out over two
>weeks. I made about a dozen stops on the round
>trip adventure, with a few longer stops to visit
>family here and there. I found it hard to fly
>high altitudes every day (diminished oxygen),
>day after day. It wears on you. I found that I
>could only practically fly 6 to 7 hours maximum
>in a given day due to shear exhaustion. But what
>glorious hours they were, at times, and what
>miserable hours they were at other times.
>
>I learned a lot about weather and got pretty
>good at dodging it after a while. Although I had
>to divert to an alternate airport more than once
>due to bad weather, it soon became a game of
>checkers after a while trying to position my
>aircraft for good weather the following day.
>There were a few rough weather situations that
>just kicked my ass in that light aircraft, though.
>
>For example: On day three, I was flying across
>Kansas trying to stay south of a nasty weather
>system stalled over Nebraska and Northern
>Colorado. A southerly flow was pushing up from
>Arizona and clashing with a Canadian cold front
>coming down through the Dakotas. It made for
>nasty and unpredictable weather not
>something you want to fly a little plane near.
>
>As the day wore on, the clouds thickened and I
>had to go below them on my way to Manhattan,
>Kansas. The ride was very rough and my rudder
>was getting a workout as I struggled to keep
>things straight and level amongst the bumps and
>gusts and wind shear. When I landed, I popped
>open the canopy as I taxied to the FBO. I parked
>and let the breeze come in. Ahhhh! I said to the
>attendant. The breeze feels good and it's such a
>nice day. He said "Are you f***ing crazy!? The
>surface temperature is 106F"! I laughed. That
>was a rough day and I was asleep by 8:00 pm that night. zzzzzzzz
>
>Navigating terrain was another skill that I
>honed during the trip. I felt like a mouse in a
>maze sometimes having to negotiate terrain,
>thunder storms and forest fires. From Kansas to
>Montana, I flew across progressively higher
>terrain and stopped at several airfields that
>were more than 5000 feet in altitude. Bit by bit
>I became accustomed to the more sluggish
>aircraft performance at higher altitudes, and my confidence grew.
>
>Crossing the Rockies for the first time was
>intimidating, nonetheless. But, I remembered my
>training and spent plenty of time planning the
>route and alternate routes. For every hour I
>spent flying, I probably spent an hour planning.
>
>It was about 8:30AM and the little plane climbed
>to 11,200, willing and anxious to climb yet more
> but I decided that I needed to breath so
>I didn't climb any higher. I was very pleased
>with the aircraft performance. The view of the
>mountains was glorious and the air was smooth. I
>couldn't have asked for much better conditions.
>
>The approach and landing at Missoula, Montana
>was probably the greatest thrill I had in a long
>time. After crossing most of the Continental
>Divide, I meandered through various valleys to
>arrive at the last pass before Missoula my final destination that day.
>
>My first choice to Missoula was blocked by a
>forest fire, so I had to take the more narrow
>mountain pass. The cloud layer was thickening
>and lowering by the hour. The mountain peaks
>were about 8,500, the clouds at 9,000, the
>valley at about 4,000 and the pass only 6 to 8
>miles wide. It was relatively tight fit
>meandering through the s-shaped valley. It
>culminated in a 4,500 foot decent in 2.5 miles
>at full throttle to land at Missoula airport.
>When I got on the ground and looked back at
>where I had just descended from, I yelled out loud. Yeeeehaw!
>
>The next day flying out of Missoula was also a
>glorious day. I left early to take advantage of
>the cool morning air. The aircraft climbed well
>as I navigated through Lolo pass toward Idaho.
>It was probably the most serene day of the
>entire trip. I took my headset off and listened
>to the wind and the engine. I forgot about
>navigating and just followed the Lolo valley
>toward Wala Wala. It was pure freedom! Oregon,
>here I come! To think that it took Louis and
>Clark nearly a year to make the same trip I did in a few days.
>
>The weather was good in the cascades, East
>Oregon so I changed my flight plans and cut
>the corner instead of following the Columbia
>River to the West Coast. I'm glad I did, because
>the views of Mount Shasta and Mount Hood were
>amazing. Dormant volcanoes with smoky bases
>(forest fires) gave them an ominous look.
>
>The return trip was equally beautiful, but
>mostly uneventful. The only technical challenge
>was flying below the clouds at 3,500 feet along
>the West Coast and following the Columbia River
>toward Idaho. Once I passed the cascades, the
>clouds lifted and I was able to climb up higher
>where the air was smoother and the view was better.
>
>I took a more southerly route over the Rockies
>this time, following the high desert of Central
>Idaho and crossing just West of Jackson Hole ...
>following the interstate highway all the way to
>Billings. I kept a northerly route across the
>Dakotas, taking a detour to fly over Crazy Horse Monument and Mount Rushmore.
>
>I flew from Billings to Rapid City in one day,
>then to Youngstown, Ohio the next day. The final
>leg into Princeton, New Jersey was like visiting
>an old friend the terrain was familiar, like
>the back of my hand. I don't think I looked at
>the compass or the map more than a few times the
>last leg across Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
>
>All in all, the trip exceeded my expectations.
>By mid-trip, I was navigating without need of
>the GPS just me, a compass and a map.
>Avoiding bad weather was soon second nature and
>the return flight was much more pleasant as a consequence.
>
>Landing at Princeton, NJ my last stop
>was a bitter-sweet thing. What great memories.
>Play time is over. Now I have to go back to making a living. Ug!
>
>--------
>Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
>
>
---
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
All of the above.
I took a laptop computer and a wireless add-on card with me. My preferred way to
get weather was to use the electronic flight planner from AOPA (it's Jeppersen
software). Many FBO have complimentary wireless connectivity, so I often sat
in the pilot's lounge with my laptop to do my basic weather checks, wind and
burn-time calcs.
Sometimes I couldn't get wireless connectivity, so I used the weather stations
at the FBO. Some were pretty good, many were worthless. One dinky-ass field in
BF Missouri only had a phone, and it was a pulse dial! All the menus at flight
service are touch tone. Ug! I diverted to that field because some unexpected
weather popped up at my destination. I felt like I was caught in some sort of
time warp figuring out how to use a damned pulse-dial in a touch-tone world.
I managed.
Last resort was flight service via phone. Be prepared to give them your entire
route and have your sectional layed out in front of you as they read you the weather
report. Don't be shy about marking up your sectional with weather symbols
etc. The briefer will be telling you things about loctions you're not familiar
with ... so you may have to ask the briefer where each point is in reference
to a VOR or airport along your route. Most briefers are pretty patient and
helpful. Their main goal is to help you plan a safe flight.
On the other hand, sometimes all the electronic information just didn't add up
... so I called a briefer to get a second opinion. More than a few times I stayed
on the ground based on the briefer's recommendation ... and I never regretted
doing so. They were always right.
Lastly, I often called flight service in the air to get a in-flight update on weather.
Don't ever count on getting in contact with anyone this way ... because
it's hit or miss. It's also difficult to fly level, navigate, talk on the radio
and look at a map all at the same time ... especially in rough air. The best
way to do this is to look ahead on your map to where you want a briefing for
... then put the map down and make the radio call. In-flight briefings were
valuable when I could get them. My diversions were usually decided on based on
in-flight info. You just can't count on the weather being as forecast over a
four hour burn.
> One technical question I would like to ask. How
> did you find the weather information and do the
> flight planning while so far from home? Were you
> able to get access to the radar and weather maps
> so easy to get on the Internet? Did you do it
> all over the phone with FSS?
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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