---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/24/06: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:47 AM - More Great List Comments - Please Make A Contribution! (Matt Dralle) 1. 12:07 AM - Re: Jim Pellien lost/ don't second guess (David X) 2. 12:17 AM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (David X) 3. 12:22 AM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (David X) 4. 05:45 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Tommy Walker) 5. 05:47 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Trainnut01@aol.com) 6. 06:14 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Juan Vega) 7. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: Sensitive Elevator (Juan Vega) 8. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Juan Vega) 9. 06:21 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Juan Vega) 10. 06:35 AM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Juan Vega) 11. 06:42 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Juan Vega) 12. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ plus 2 others (Big Gee) 13. 07:23 AM - Re:Re:Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (MaxNr@aol.com) 14. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Coast to coast in my 601XL (MaxNr@aol.com) 15. 09:49 AM - Re: Coast to coast in my 601XL (David X) 16. 09:50 AM - Re: Sensitive Elevator (David X) 17. 10:13 AM - Re: Jim Pellien lost/ plus 2 others (David X) 18. 10:23 AM - Be a good aviation ambassador - don't speculate on accidents (David X) 19. 12:38 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Mack Kreizenbeck) 20. 02:13 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (David X) 21. 04:09 PM - Spar bolt hole question (Husky Larry J) 22. 06:23 PM - Re: Spar bolt hole question (Paul Mulwitz) 23. 06:41 PM - Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Dabusmith@aol.com) 24. 08:34 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Noel Loveys) 25. 09:27 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (T. Graziano) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:48 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: More Great List Comments - Please Make A Contribution! Dear Listers, There's a little less than one week left for this year's List Fund Raiser. I thought it would a great time to share a few more of the great comments I've been receiving from Contributors regarding what the Lists mean to them. There are some particularly poignant ones in this batch and I encourage you to have a look at some of them. Don't forget that once you make your Contribution, the Contribution Squelch kicks in and you won't receive any future messages from me regarding the Fund Raiser this year! This holds true for the Realtime and Digest distributions and now also the HTML and TXT links included with the Digest! (Note that for technical reasons, if someone replies to one of my contribution messages, the Squelch will _not_ be activated, and you will still receive it. Contribution messages will also still be found on the Forums site and the List Browse). Please make your Contribution today to support these List services! Pick up a great Gift too! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ============================= WLAS #2 ============================ Tackling my project without the List would be like building on a deserted island. The List has made me part of a learning (and laughing) community. -Larry W Thank you for providing such a fantastic resource for us Kolbers. I'm very happy to contribute towards keeping such a wonderful resource available. -Geoff T ..you do a great service for the flying community by providing this service. -John L ..solidly administered. -James C A great source of information. -Ralph S The Lists have likely saved a numbers of lives... -James F ..exceptional user service. -Larry W Better than a magazine! -Aaron G Thanks to your List I will be able to finish and fly my project. Without the help of the great people on your List I doubt it would have happened. -Ed G I learn something on a too regular basis thanks to these lists! -Ralph C ..valuable service. -John F ..a well administered service. -Stewart C Great forum! -Ronald C A great service! -Andy H Been reading the lists since my first RV in 1999. Good work and as necessary to me as a rivet. -Albert G The lists are a great help. -Gary S This resource has been critical to my building success so far. -Timothy F Great system and support! -Richard P Very helpful in the building my CH 701. -Ralph S Another year of entertainment and pleasure! -Larry B A great resource for all of us. -Larry W Another year of great service! Once again, the information is worth more than I can ever contribute. Thank you also for the "community" that the List fosters. I cannot tell you the number of times that seeing an friend's name come up has caused so many awesome memories to come flooding back - along with the eager desire to gather with these great guys again. I love hearing the beginner's enthusiasm, the builder's progress, and the flyer's success... -Robert B Our list has great info and I love reading the "Flame Posts! " -Stephen M Great service! -James B Excellent source of information. -David P You provide a very valuable service to the aviation community. -David H The RV related lists have been a tremendous help in the construction of my RV-7... -Norman R Awesome list!! -John E Great bunch of guys and very knowledgeable! -Herbert G Thank you for making it so easy to stay in touch with my fellow RV-10 builders. -David J I love the list and have been a reader for a long time. -James V Continues to be a great service! -George A Awesome List server. -Deke M Many of us would never finish our airplanes without [the List]. With it, I'm getting close! -Ronald C An excellent source of both information and inspiration! -William R Forums and format are easy to use. -Jack B Great help with my kit building. -Ralph H Super service. -Richard N Still loving it. -Jared S You have a fantastic web! -Harvey R ..a great service. -James M Glad you are there... -David A I get some great information on your list. -John P Fantastic service. Couldn't have made it as far as I have without it. -Stephen T A great learning experience with my RV-6A. -Ron B Great resources! -Jason H Well done. Very valuable. -Jeffrey D Great resource for the experimental aircraft community. -Chris H This List has been one of the most helpful tools in building my RV-10, since I build alone, and do not have any help readily available. Without the List, I could not have embarked on building my RV-10. -Jim H You run a great list there. -James H Really like the Kolb List. -Don W ============================= WLAS #2 ============================ ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ don't second guess From: "David X" taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote: > We don't know if Jim used poor preflight procedures, or had some type of leak which caused fuel to leak from the tanks while he was flying.----- Either way, he ran out of fuel, and was at an unsafe altitude. taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote: > The second question is: Did Jim fly the airplane to the very last minute, or did he panic and stall the airplane while close to the ground. taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Yet, the AMD 601 with the inflight explosion, the airplane came apart in flight, a man and his wife was killed isn't even mentioned here For someone chiding others for speculating, you're sure doing a lot of it yourself. There is no mention of an in-flight explosion in the NTSB report. No mention of an unsafe altitude. No mention of panic. No leak, no tank puncture, no poor preflight ... nothing like this mentioned. They're your own fabrications. taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote: > I think the informaion from those two authors and the knowledge available form William Wynne (directly, written and video) can keep a lot of folks out of trouble. Oh yeah ... I remember that chapter in Stick and Rudder about speculating on plane crashes while chiding others for doing the same. You must have read that chapter over and over again. Do us all a favor and zip it already with the speculation. Where do you get off? Yeah, you got flamed ... and you deserved it. You're wrong about "damned if you don't". DON'T! -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76640#76640 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash From: "David X" Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote: > Folks why are we assuming Jim departed with no fuel? ... Why not send a our thoughts and prayers are with your family during this holiday season NOT Jim Pellien crash speculation. I wish you'd have taken your own advice and not included all that speculation of your own while chiding others for doing the same. [Rolling Eyes] I know the exact layout of the fuel delivery in Jim's plane. It was identical to my own. I've looked at the layout many times and thought through many scenarios. It's a very sound design. So what happened? Uhhhh ... the plane ran out of fuel! No fuel smell, no evidence of fuel spill, tanks appeared dry, very little fuel anywhere. Don't know much more beyond that. I don't care to speculate ... nor should you. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76641#76641 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator From: "David X" amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > David, do you have any good pics of the trip. Sounds like a fun one. Thanks for asking. I posted the story and pictures on this forum. Hopefully it will get everyone off of this gloomy speculation over crashes and thinking about the freedom and joy of flying. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76642#76642 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:17 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. I think you are right about that.. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive I believe the FAR's states that fuel senders are required to read empty accurately it doesn't matter after that. Don't quote me on that don't have the book in front of me. Do not archive _____ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:43 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. Gary The ACS part # for the float switch is 6905-400. The flange I used to mount it is AN867-4. I used the panel lights that ACS recommended because I liked the way they looked but a LED could easily be substituted, and as Paul said a LED would be cheaper and more reliable. I still like the "press to test" feature. I sold the RV before it was completed so I don't know how well it is working. I did test the system when the wing tanks were being tested and it worked perfectly. I do suspect that there might be some premature flashing with reduced fuel load in turbulence, but then that's a warning too. On my 601 I plan to install the sensors further back in the tank because I think the warning lights might come on during flare with them mounted as far forward as they are in the RV. As soon as the new owner finishes flying off the hours he's going to let me get some time in it, so I'll know more then. Carroll ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:10 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. probably a red warning light when the tanks hit 1/4 full? Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Nov 23, 2006 8:32 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. > >Hi Tracy, > >Thanks for the kind words. > >I guess I should expand my original thoughts a little. > >First let me say I agree with the notion that fuel gauges are not >accurate. However, since we build our own planes we can adjust the >senders to indicate what we want. I chose to set mine so they were >reasonably accurate on the empty side and not necessarily much use >when the tanks are full. Of course, I did this because I have much >better ways to tell when the tanks are full - by removing the filler >cap and looking. > >Even so, I know I don't spend a lot of time looking at the fuel >gauges when flying. Indeed, I don't look at any of the non-flight >instruments unless something prompts me to look. That is why I like >the idea of electronics to watch the fuel quantity along with other >boring stuff like oil temperature, alternator function, battery >charge (HMMMMM, I wonder if this is available), CHT, EGT, and similar >stuff. I was just reading specifications for the Dynon monitoring >system and it will do most of these things. It seems well worth the >price to me. I would rather use my eyes to look for aluminum clouds. > >I have always depended on flight planning to insure sufficient fuel >for any flight. This is really easy if you know your plane holds 4 >hours of fuel and your bladder is worthless after 2 hours. A life >long habit of filling the tanks for each flight works well with this >scenario. Still there is always the possibility of a fuel leak (or >missing gas cap) spoiling your plan. It would be nice for the >instruments to jump up and down and say "Watch it chum, fuel is nearly gone." > >Paul >XL fuselage > > >At 04:53 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote: >>Hello Paul: >> >>I always enjoy your posts - keep them coming ! >> >>Seems to me the only way a low fuel alarm would be any good is to >>improve the quality of the signal being used to evaluate the amount >>of usuable fuel available....simply put - better fuel level >>monitoring ! Since we all agree the fuel gauges in most GA >>aircraft are damn near worthless, we need to improve on the >>reliability of that signal (including the design of the fuel tanks >>to minimize inaccuracies) before sounding any kind of alarm. >> >>The best all-around answer seems to me to be a combination of a VERY >>accurate fuel level monitor which works primarily on the ground to >>determine fuel available at the start of flight, and then highly >>accurate inflight monitoring of consumption, working it's way down >>to an alarm status. This seems to be suited perfectly to engine >>management technology. >> >>Only my opinion - flame away !! >> >>Tracy Smith >>N458XL (reserved) >> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:50 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator I looked for it in archives, can you send me the link.? JUan -----Original Message----- >From: David X >Sent: Nov 24, 2006 3:22 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator > > > >amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: >> David, do you have any good pics of the trip. Sounds like a fun one. > > >Thanks for asking. I posted the story and pictures on this forum. Hopefully it will get everyone off of this gloomy speculation over crashes and thinking about the freedom and joy of flying. > >-------- >Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76642#76642 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:12 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL ANother item you can take is prior to take off , print the airport directories for the airports you are overflying, if not on your 496, (which I don't have). As you fly over, there is direction on each sheet, mostly to 122.0 for FSS or radio the Class B traffic at flight following , and ask. Around here if they are not busy, class B control will give me a military update and radio channel to get weather brief. JUan -----Original Message----- >From: David X >Sent: Nov 24, 2006 2:05 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL > > >All of the above. > >I took a laptop computer and a wireless add-on card with me. My preferred way to get weather was to use the electronic flight planner from AOPA (it's Jeppersen software). Many FBO have complimentary wireless connectivity, so I often sat in the pilot's lounge with my laptop to do my basic weather checks, wind and burn-time calcs. > >Sometimes I couldn't get wireless connectivity, so I used the weather stations at the FBO. Some were pretty good, many were worthless. One dinky-ass field in BF Missouri only had a phone, and it was a pulse dial! All the menus at flight service are touch tone. Ug! I diverted to that field because some unexpected weather popped up at my destination. I felt like I was caught in some sort of time warp figuring out how to use a damned pulse-dial in a touch-tone world. I managed. > >Last resort was flight service via phone. Be prepared to give them your entire route and have your sectional layed out in front of you as they read you the weather report. Don't be shy about marking up your sectional with weather symbols etc. The briefer will be telling you things about loctions you're not familiar with ... so you may have to ask the briefer where each point is in reference to a VOR or airport along your route. Most briefers are pretty patient and helpful. Their main goal is to help you plan a safe flight. > >On the other hand, sometimes all the electronic information just didn't add up ... so I called a briefer to get a second opinion. More than a few times I stayed on the ground based on the briefer's recommendation ... and I never regretted doing so. They were always right. > >Lastly, I often called flight service in the air to get a in-flight update on weather. Don't ever count on getting in contact with anyone this way ... because it's hit or miss. It's also difficult to fly level, navigate, talk on the radio and look at a map all at the same time ... especially in rough air. The best way to do this is to look ahead on your map to where you want a briefing for ... then put the map down and make the radio call. In-flight briefings were valuable when I could get them. My diversions were usually decided on based on in-flight info. You just can't count on the weather being as forecast over a four hour burn. > > >> One technical question I would like to ask. How >> did you find the weather information and do the >> flight planning while so far from home? Were you >> able to get access to the radar and weather maps >> so easy to get on the Internet? Did you do it >> all over the phone with FSS? > > >-------- >Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76638#76638 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:55 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. you can also dial in on the VOR or other channel on the AWAS of airports up ahead. JUan -----Original Message----- >From: Juan Vega >Sent: Nov 24, 2006 9:13 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. > > >probably a red warning light when the tanks hit 1/4 full? > >Juan > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Paul Mulwitz >>Sent: Nov 23, 2006 8:32 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. >> >>Hi Tracy, >> >>Thanks for the kind words. >> >>I guess I should expand my original thoughts a little. >> >>First let me say I agree with the notion that fuel gauges are not >>accurate. However, since we build our own planes we can adjust the >>senders to indicate what we want. I chose to set mine so they were >>reasonably accurate on the empty side and not necessarily much use >>when the tanks are full. Of course, I did this because I have much >>better ways to tell when the tanks are full - by removing the filler >>cap and looking. >> >>Even so, I know I don't spend a lot of time looking at the fuel >>gauges when flying. Indeed, I don't look at any of the non-flight >>instruments unless something prompts me to look. That is why I like >>the idea of electronics to watch the fuel quantity along with other >>boring stuff like oil temperature, alternator function, battery >>charge (HMMMMM, I wonder if this is available), CHT, EGT, and similar >>stuff. I was just reading specifications for the Dynon monitoring >>system and it will do most of these things. It seems well worth the >>price to me. I would rather use my eyes to look for aluminum clouds. >> >>I have always depended on flight planning to insure sufficient fuel >>for any flight. This is really easy if you know your plane holds 4 >>hours of fuel and your bladder is worthless after 2 hours. A life >>long habit of filling the tanks for each flight works well with this >>scenario. Still there is always the possibility of a fuel leak (or >>missing gas cap) spoiling your plan. It would be nice for the >>instruments to jump up and down and say "Watch it chum, fuel is nearly gone." >> >>Paul >>XL fuselage >> >> >> >> >>At 04:53 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote: >>>Hello Paul: >>> >>>I always enjoy your posts - keep them coming ! >>> >>>Seems to me the only way a low fuel alarm would be any good is to >>>improve the quality of the signal being used to evaluate the amount >>>of usuable fuel available....simply put - better fuel level >>>monitoring ! Since we all agree the fuel gauges in most GA >>>aircraft are damn near worthless, we need to improve on the >>>reliability of that signal (including the design of the fuel tanks >>>to minimize inaccuracies) before sounding any kind of alarm. >>> >>>The best all-around answer seems to me to be a combination of a VERY >>>accurate fuel level monitor which works primarily on the ground to >>>determine fuel available at the start of flight, and then highly >>>accurate inflight monitoring of consumption, working it's way down >>>to an alarm status. This seems to be suited perfectly to engine >>>management technology. >>> >>>Only my opinion - flame away !! >>> >>>Tracy Smith >>>N458XL (reserved) >>> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:41 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL Man what a cool trip. ANy thoughts ona bunch of us m,eeting up at a flyin like Missouri or OShkosh? I should be done by February and flying. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Nov 24, 2006 1:12 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL > > >Hi David, > >What an inspiring story. I too have dreams of >flying coast to coast in my own airplane. Alas, >I still need to finish building it and survive the flight testing. > >Let me apologize for removing your request to not >store your story in the archive. This is just >the kind of story I think we all need. Thank you >for taking the time and effort to write it. > >One technical question I would like to ask. How >did you find the weather information and do the >flight planning while so far from home? Were you >able to get access to the radar and weather maps >so easy to get on the Internet? Did you do it >all over the phone with FSS? (OK, it wasn't just one question) > >Paul >XL still working on the fuselage. Maybe I'll >finish the plane next year. Then I can try to fly all that distance. > >At 09:33 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote: >> >>Althought the trip was in August, I didn't post >>it in this forum because, frankly, a number of >>you out there are pricks. One guy went so far as >>to tell me I was full of 5h!t. Yet others >>complain that the pictures clog their stone-age >>300 baud modems. If you're one of those ... take >>a deep breath ... count to 10 ... and call a shrink. >> >>With all this gloom over crashes lately, I think >>we need a reminder once in a while about the joy >>and freedom of flying. The trip was a life-long >>dream of mine. My story and pics follow: >>-------------------------------------------------- >>Some of you may know that I recently completed a >>cross-country trip in my 601 from Albany, NY to >>Roseburg, Oregon and back to Princeton, NJ >>crossing the Rockies twice. It was the >>culmination of a long held dream of mine. Three >>months later, I still marvel at the adventure. >> >>Total fly time was 35 hours spread out over two >>weeks. I made about a dozen stops on the round >>trip adventure, with a few longer stops to visit >>family here and there. I found it hard to fly >>high altitudes every day (diminished oxygen), >>day after day. It wears on you. I found that I >>could only practically fly 6 to 7 hours maximum >>in a given day due to shear exhaustion. But what >>glorious hours they were, at times, and what >>miserable hours they were at other times. >> >>I learned a lot about weather and got pretty >>good at dodging it after a while. Although I had >>to divert to an alternate airport more than once >>due to bad weather, it soon became a game of >>checkers after a while trying to position my >>aircraft for good weather the following day. >>There were a few rough weather situations that >>just kicked my ass in that light aircraft, though. >> >>For example: On day three, I was flying across >>Kansas trying to stay south of a nasty weather >>system stalled over Nebraska and Northern >>Colorado. A southerly flow was pushing up from >>Arizona and clashing with a Canadian cold front >>coming down through the Dakotas. It made for >>nasty and unpredictable weather not >>something you want to fly a little plane near. >> >>As the day wore on, the clouds thickened and I >>had to go below them on my way to Manhattan, >>Kansas. The ride was very rough and my rudder >>was getting a workout as I struggled to keep >>things straight and level amongst the bumps and >>gusts and wind shear. When I landed, I popped >>open the canopy as I taxied to the FBO. I parked >>and let the breeze come in. Ahhhh! I said to the >>attendant. The breeze feels good and it's such a >>nice day. He said "Are you f***ing crazy!? The >>surface temperature is 106F"! I laughed. That >>was a rough day and I was asleep by 8:00 pm that night. zzzzzzzz >> >>Navigating terrain was another skill that I >>honed during the trip. I felt like a mouse in a >>maze sometimes having to negotiate terrain, >>thunder storms and forest fires. From Kansas to >>Montana, I flew across progressively higher >>terrain and stopped at several airfields that >>were more than 5000 feet in altitude. Bit by bit >>I became accustomed to the more sluggish >>aircraft performance at higher altitudes, and my confidence grew. >> >>Crossing the Rockies for the first time was >>intimidating, nonetheless. But, I remembered my >>training and spent plenty of time planning the >>route and alternate routes. For every hour I >>spent flying, I probably spent an hour planning. >> >>It was about 8:30AM and the little plane climbed >>to 11,200, willing and anxious to climb yet more >> but I decided that I needed to breath so >>I didn't climb any higher. I was very pleased >>with the aircraft performance. The view of the >>mountains was glorious and the air was smooth. I >>couldn't have asked for much better conditions. >> >>The approach and landing at Missoula, Montana >>was probably the greatest thrill I had in a long >>time. After crossing most of the Continental >>Divide, I meandered through various valleys to >>arrive at the last pass before Missoula my final destination that day. >> >>My first choice to Missoula was blocked by a >>forest fire, so I had to take the more narrow >>mountain pass. The cloud layer was thickening >>and lowering by the hour. The mountain peaks >>were about 8,500, the clouds at 9,000, the >>valley at about 4,000 and the pass only 6 to 8 >>miles wide. It was relatively tight fit >>meandering through the s-shaped valley. It >>culminated in a 4,500 foot decent in 2.5 miles >>at full throttle to land at Missoula airport. >>When I got on the ground and looked back at >>where I had just descended from, I yelled out loud. Yeeeehaw! >> >>The next day flying out of Missoula was also a >>glorious day. I left early to take advantage of >>the cool morning air. The aircraft climbed well >>as I navigated through Lolo pass toward Idaho. >>It was probably the most serene day of the >>entire trip. I took my headset off and listened >>to the wind and the engine. I forgot about >>navigating and just followed the Lolo valley >>toward Wala Wala. It was pure freedom! Oregon, >>here I come! To think that it took Louis and >>Clark nearly a year to make the same trip I did in a few days. >> >>The weather was good in the cascades, East >>Oregon so I changed my flight plans and cut >>the corner instead of following the Columbia >>River to the West Coast. I'm glad I did, because >>the views of Mount Shasta and Mount Hood were >>amazing. Dormant volcanoes with smoky bases >>(forest fires) gave them an ominous look. >> >>The return trip was equally beautiful, but >>mostly uneventful. The only technical challenge >>was flying below the clouds at 3,500 feet along >>the West Coast and following the Columbia River >>toward Idaho. Once I passed the cascades, the >>clouds lifted and I was able to climb up higher >>where the air was smoother and the view was better. >> >>I took a more southerly route over the Rockies >>this time, following the high desert of Central >>Idaho and crossing just West of Jackson Hole ... >>following the interstate highway all the way to >>Billings. I kept a northerly route across the >>Dakotas, taking a detour to fly over Crazy Horse Monument and Mount Rushmore. >> >>I flew from Billings to Rapid City in one day, >>then to Youngstown, Ohio the next day. The final >>leg into Princeton, New Jersey was like visiting >>an old friend the terrain was familiar, like >>the back of my hand. I don't think I looked at >>the compass or the map more than a few times the >>last leg across Pennsylvania and New Jersey. >> >>All in all, the trip exceeded my expectations. >>By mid-trip, I was navigating without need of >>the GPS just me, a compass and a map. >>Avoiding bad weather was soon second nature and >>the return flight was much more pleasant as a consequence. >> >>Landing at Princeton, NJ my last stop >>was a bitter-sweet thing. What great memories. >>Play time is over. Now I have to go back to making a living. Ug! >> >>-------- >>Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S >> >> >> >> > >--- > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:44 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. I used to fly a small GA aircraft with 1/4 tank warning and after one bumpy flight I was ready to shoot the plane. every bump was a beep one hour even with 3/4 tanks. I live in an area with lots of convective activity. What I found is that the very expesnive models that jets use work in level air. Jaun -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Nov 23, 2006 8:32 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. > >Hi Tracy, > >Thanks for the kind words. > >I guess I should expand my original thoughts a little. > >First let me say I agree with the notion that fuel gauges are not >accurate. However, since we build our own planes we can adjust the >senders to indicate what we want. I chose to set mine so they were >reasonably accurate on the empty side and not necessarily much use >when the tanks are full. Of course, I did this because I have much >better ways to tell when the tanks are full - by removing the filler >cap and looking. > >Even so, I know I don't spend a lot of time looking at the fuel >gauges when flying. Indeed, I don't look at any of the non-flight >instruments unless something prompts me to look. That is why I like >the idea of electronics to watch the fuel quantity along with other >boring stuff like oil temperature, alternator function, battery >charge (HMMMMM, I wonder if this is available), CHT, EGT, and similar >stuff. I was just reading specifications for the Dynon monitoring >system and it will do most of these things. It seems well worth the >price to me. I would rather use my eyes to look for aluminum clouds. > >I have always depended on flight planning to insure sufficient fuel >for any flight. This is really easy if you know your plane holds 4 >hours of fuel and your bladder is worthless after 2 hours. A life >long habit of filling the tanks for each flight works well with this >scenario. Still there is always the possibility of a fuel leak (or >missing gas cap) spoiling your plan. It would be nice for the >instruments to jump up and down and say "Watch it chum, fuel is nearly gone." > >Paul >XL fuselage > > >At 04:53 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote: >>Hello Paul: >> >>I always enjoy your posts - keep them coming ! >> >>Seems to me the only way a low fuel alarm would be any good is to >>improve the quality of the signal being used to evaluate the amount >>of usuable fuel available....simply put - better fuel level >>monitoring ! Since we all agree the fuel gauges in most GA >>aircraft are damn near worthless, we need to improve on the >>reliability of that signal (including the design of the fuel tanks >>to minimize inaccuracies) before sounding any kind of alarm. >> >>The best all-around answer seems to me to be a combination of a VERY >>accurate fuel level monitor which works primarily on the ground to >>determine fuel available at the start of flight, and then highly >>accurate inflight monitoring of consumption, working it's way down >>to an alarm status. This seems to be suited perfectly to engine >>management technology. >> >>Only my opinion - flame away !! >> >>Tracy Smith >>N458XL (reserved) >> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:39 AM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ plus 2 others David X, =0ACongratulations on your cross country flight. By the tone of y our emails it sounds like you have an axe to grind.------ I was not specula ting about anything concerning Jim's accident or the other couple's acciden t.-------- parts of both reports are below.=0A=0AJim-- didn't get killed b ecause he ran out of fuel !! nor did the design of his fuel system have any thing to do with it. Jim got killed because of what happened AFTER he ran out of fuel ( no, we don't know why this happened). The NTSB report says : "It was next observed "very low" over the trees, turning southward. It t hen turned towards the east, and the engine "surged," then became silent. M oments later, the airplane banked 90 degrees to the left and witnesses hear d the sound of impact". =0ALike I said, this is an emotional topic (your comments reflect that) and hopefully something can be learned from it (not from speculating). I wasn't there, and neither were you.=0AThe point I am trying to bring out is that in the flying business, "altitude is insurance" . =0A=0A1) On November 11, 2006, at 1630 eastern standard time, a Czech Ai rcraft Works CH 601 XL RTF, N601VA, was substantially damaged when it impac ted trees following a loss of engine power while maneuvering near Sky Bryce Airport (VG18), Basye, Virginia. The certificated private pilot was fatall y injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan w as filed for the local personal flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.=0A1) According to witness statements, the pilot stated that he was going to fly for "about an hour." The airplane was seen "circling" north of the airport , and then to descend. It was next observed "very low" over the trees, turn ing southward. It then turned towards the east, and the engine "surged," th en became silent. Moments later, the airplane banked 90 degrees to the left and witnesses heard the sound of impact=0A=0AThe airplane which had an exp losion in flight is referenced below in another NTSB report. There was no thing in my original post that I was speculating on, as a matter of fact I mentioned we should not be doing that (speculating). I do take offence to the tone of your letter, but will consider the source.-------- I did think that maybe one of the reasons for this site is to make flying and building safer.=0A=0A2)On November 4, 2006, about 1139 Pacific standard time, an Ai rcraft Manufacturing & Development Co., CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, experienced a n in-flight breakup while cruising approximately 8 nautical miles south of Yuba City, California. The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot, who w as a co-owner of the airplane, and a passenger were fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. Th e flight was performed under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91, and it origi nated from Lincoln, California, about 1129.=0AA ground-based witness report ed hearing the airplane as it approached his location. The witness stated t hat the airplane's engine was "missing" and its power was "on and off." Sec onds later the witness heard the sound of an explosion and observed the cen ter section of the airplane falling straight down. All of the airplane's st ructural components were located in adjacent open fields during the Nationa l Transportation Safety Board's on-scene investigation. The wreckage consis ted of the following components, which were separated from each other: left wing (without aileron); right wing (with aileron); main landing gear assem bly; cockpit, engine with attached propeller blades; aileron (left wing); a nd empennage. There was no evidence of oil spray on any of the components, and there was no evidence of fire.=0AThe wreckage has been recovered and de tailed airframe and engine examinations are ongoing.=0A=0AI think it is a s hame that when we go to the NTSB accident page, type in "601" it shows, the latest two accidents resulted in three "fatals". If nothing is learned from this, the list will only get longer. =0A=0ANOT SPECULATING--- Fritz=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: David X =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, November 24, 2006 3:05:46 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ don't second >=0A=0A=0Ataffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote:=0A> We don't know if Jim used poor preflight procedures, or had some type of leak which caused fuel to leak fr om the tanks while he was flying.----- Either way, he ran out of fuel, and was at an unsafe altitude.=0A=0A=0Ataffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote:=0A> The s econd question is: Did Jim fly the airplane to the very last minute, or di d he panic and stall the airplane while close to the ground. =0A=0A=0Ataff y0687(at)yahoo.com wrote:=0A> Yet, the AMD 601 with the inflight explosion, the airplane came apart in flight, a man and his wife was killed isn't eve n mentioned here=0A=0A=0AFor someone chiding others for speculating, you're sure doing a lot of it yourself. There is no mention of an in-flight explo sion in the NTSB report. No mention of an unsafe altitude. No mention of pa nic. No leak, no tank puncture, no poor preflight ... nothing like this men tioned. They're your own fabrications.=0A =0A=0Ataffy0687(at)yahoo.com wro te:=0A> I think the informaion from those two authors and the knowledge ava ilable form William Wynne (directly, written and video) can keep a lot of folks out of trouble.=0A=0A=0AOh yeah ... I remember that chapter in Stick and Rudder about speculating on plane crashes while chiding others for doin g the same. You must have read that chapter over and over again.=0A=0ADo us all a favor and zip it already with the speculation. Where do you get off? Yeah, you got flamed ... and you deserved it.=0A=0AYou're wrong about "dam ned if you don't". DON'T!=0A=0A--------=0AZodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rota x 912S=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahtt p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76640#76640=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ===0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:45 AM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Re:Coast to coast and back in my 601XL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:41 AM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: Coast to coast in my 601XL Hi David Great story. Got me thinking about an item on my life's to-do list. A former co-worker and Canadian told me that every one should fly the Al Can Highway at least once. He did it in a 56 C-172. That is quite a stretch from my home in the Pensacola area. (and you have to come back) If I am lucky enough to get er done, I would certainly have a cell phone for talking to FSS. Before I retired, my day job had me flying around LA & TX, and as far as NM. Problem is if I dialed 1-800-WXBRIEF, it would always hook me up to Gainsville,FL FSS. I found a list of the alternate toll free numbers to all the FSS;s on the AOPA web sight. I could direct dial FSS at Deridder, LA or Conroe, TX. If you need it and cant find it, contact me. Bob XL / Lyc ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Coast to coast in my 601XL From: "David X" MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote: > Got me thinking about an item on my life's to-do list. A former co-worker and Canadian told me that every one should fly the Al Can Highway at least once. He did it in a 56 C-172. It's on my list too. Would love to exchange notes with your friend. MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote: > Problem is if I dialed 1-800-WXBRIEF, it would always hook me up to Gainsville,FL FSS. I found a list of the alternate toll free numbers to all the FSS;s on the AOPA web sight. Great idea! -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76779#76779 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensitive Elevator From: "David X" http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=18892 -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76780#76780 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ plus 2 others From: "David X" Most of us on this forum can read and know how to browse the NTSB site, thank you. [Rolling Eyes] Your post is appreciated, however, because it isn't full of the "what if" and "maybe" type speculations that were in your previous posts. I don't have an ax to grind. I'm just overly concerned about non-pilots, media and bereaved survivors looking to quote one of us idiots who speculate on such things. It infringes on our freedom of flight because ignorant regulators start to pass restrictions on our freedom based in idiotic speculation. It has happened many times, and did in the case of another friend who died last year. The local paper printed all sorts of distortions that they claim came from this archive. You lose about 80% of a conversation when all you have is text. No inflection of voice, no body language etc. Although I appear to you as emotional or having an ax to grind ... I'm simply expressing a sense of urgency that you and others refrain yourselves from speculating because of those who are watching a reading this forum. These article links below sum it up best. I won't copy and quote the whole thing here, though (for AOPA members): http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2003/speak0311.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76783#76783 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Be a good aviation ambassador - don't speculate on accidents From: "David X" Folks - I appologize to those who I've flamed lately on this post. It's not so much a flame as a sense of urgency that people stop speculating. It hurts us all. The article below came from the AOPA archive. I've quoted it here for those who are not AOPA members. http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2003/speak0311.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Speak No Evil Helping nonpilots understand aviation accidents BY CHIP WRIGHT (From AOPA Pilot, November 2003.) Every year, more than 40,000 people die in auto accidents in the United States. At some point in your life, you will probably know at least one of those people. Less than 1 percent of that number will die in airplane accidents. As a certificated pilot, you may or may not eventually know one of them. When it comes to explaining a car accident, people understand such things as brake failures, icy or wet roads, dangerous curves, failure to stop for a light or a sign, even drunk driving. The fact that most people in this country either drive or ride in cars makes automobile accidents something we can all relate to. When an accident happens, we may not understand why the people involved behave the way they do (such as driving when they've been drinking), but we can all understand the how or why of a driver losing control. Even if you have never lost control of a car, you have probably been in one that slipped a little on a wet road, or accidentally driven through a red light or a stop sign. Your heart jumps, and you might imagine how the situation could have been a lot worse. Aviation is different. Airplanes are involved in far fewer accidents than cars. Airliners are involved in the fewest accidents of all, so when they do occur, it is indeed news. Unfortunately, because of the rarity of such accidents, they garner a lot of attention, and almost from the minute the media arrive, they start to speculate on the cause. Those of us who are pilots tend to get a lot of phone calls from our friends and family when an airplane is involved in an accident or incident. People who are not intimately familiar with aviation often want a quick and understandable answer to the question of what caused a particular accident. As people who only fly as passengers, and who fly only on occasion, they want some kind of reassurance that airplanes, and pilots, really are safe. How you answer these questions can have a strong impact on the impression of aviation you leave with your friends and family. Dealing with questions The most important thing you can do is immediately counsel the need for patience as the investigation process goes on. In the rush to gather information and report the facts, the mainstream news media often do not have as much information as they need in order to accurately report what happened. They may know that a single-engine plane crashed near a road. They may even speculate that the airplane was trying to land on the road because an eyewitness said the airplane "appeared" to be having engine trouble, and was looking for a place to land. Furthermore, they may report that the witness said the airplane stalled prior to landing. There are several problems with this particular statement. For starters, investigative bodies, including the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which is responsible for investigating aviation accidents, have long known that eyewitness reports in such circumstances are often of questionable value. The sequence of events occurs so fast and at such a distance that it can be difficult to accurately restate what happened. Furthermore, the word stall means different things to pilots. For pilots, a stall is the result of a wing losing lift. We don't tend to refer to engine problems as stalls like we do in a car. In this case, it is unclear whether the witness means the wing stalled or the engine stopped operating. The difference is significant. A failed engine does not necessarily have to lead to an accident, whereas a stall of the wing at low altitude probably will. As for speculating about the pilot's intent, none of us can yet read minds. After preaching the need to wait for the relevant facts to emerge, it is important that you yourself do not start to speculate on exactly what caused an accident. This can be difficult because if the airplane is one with which you are familiar, it can be tempting to try and tie the loose ends together and reach a conclusion about what happened. You may be right. But more important, you may be wrong. In January 1997, there was a crash of an Embraer Brasilia in Detroit. The Brasilia was a common turboprop commuter aircraft that was popular in the 1980s and 1990s. It also had a history of propeller overspeed problems that led to several accidents. In the immediate aftermath of the accident, there was a lot of speculation on what role the propeller may have played in the accident, as well as what role weather might have played, as the airplane was making an approach through icing conditions. Problems with the propellers were ruled out fairly quickly, but not until after a lot of intense media coverage. The weather, however, had everyone's attention from the beginning, particularly in light of the Roselawn, Indiana, accident involving an American Eagle ATR 72 a few years prior. In most weather accidents, the crew is put under intense scrutiny, almost to the point of being guilty until proven innocent. This accident was no exception. But like a good mystery novel, there was a twist. In the end, the Brasilia crew was found to have operated the airplane in full accordance with the airplane flight manual. The problem was that they had not received information that could have helped them take corrective action to avoid the accident. The NTSB determined that the probable causes of the accident were the FAA's failure to establish adequate aircraft certification standards for flight in icing conditions, the FAA's failure to ensure that an FAA/CTA-approved procedure for the accident airplane's deice system operation was implemented by U.S.-based air carriers, and the FAA's failure to require the establishment of adequate minimum airspeeds for icing conditions, which led to the loss of control when the airplane accumulated a thin, rough accretion of ice on its lifting surfaces. All 29 people on board were killed. The moral of the story: Wait until the investigation is complete. The pilot As investigations proceed, and stories about what actions the pilot or pilots took come out, it is fair to assume that your nonflying friends will ask you how you would have responded or why the actions taken occurred. This is a bit of a loaded question, and it definitely puts you in the position of being a Monday-morning quarterback. The best way to handle this is to explain that in learning to fly, a lot of emphasis is put on handling various in-flight emergencies: loss of an engine, failure of the flaps, loss of electrical power. If you can, show a copy of the Federal Aviation Regulations or the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards to illustrate the level of training involved. The goal is not to scare people even more, but to make the point that in a car a mechanical problem is first dealt with by pulling over to the side of the road. In a plane, that just isn't an option. Because of that, aircraft are built with a high level of reliability as well as redundancy. But if that reliability or redundancy should fail, it is critical you be able to handle it. But again, you can't read the mind of the pilot involved. If the accident was in a typical general aviation airplane, it means there won't be any kind of voice or data recorder involved. The NTSB is pretty good at determining the cause of an accident based on the condition of the wreckage. While the cause may turn out to be easy to determine, the reason for the accident may not be. It isn't fair to speculate, but if people insist on asking you questions, you may be able to at least provide some information about the cause of the accident that is not provided by the media. For instance, if the media reports that an airplane crashed during the turn to the final approach to landing because of a stall, you can explain how an inadvertent cross-controlled stall occurs. What you can't do is just say, "Well, he didn't know what he was doing; everybody who flies knows to avoid that kind of accident." That's a blanket statement, and it may not be fair to blame the pilot outright. While it may have been poor airmanship, other undetermined factors may have been involved. In the case of an accident involving an airplane with voice and/or data recorders, you are almost always better off to deflect questions about the cause until the investigation is complete. The NTSB often finds some clues on the tapes regarding the cause of the accident. As I write this, the investigation into Air Midwest Flight 5481 in Charlotte, North Carolina, the Beech 1900 that hit the hangar after takeoff, is still ongoing. However, the loading of the airplane has come into question, specifically concerns about the weight of the cargo and the fact that cargo is loaded in the back of a 1900, shifting the center of gravity aft. This has been of sufficient concern to the FAA that it has implemented surveys of passenger weights as the average American gets heavier. Because the airlines all use "average" weights for passengers and their bags, the concern is that it is time to update and up those numbers to reflect our collective weight increase. This is even more critical on smaller airliners where weight and CG are more critical and/or sensitive. For the past several months, the FAA has been asking the airlines to survey the passengers at random in order to try and pinpoint realistic weights. Passenger weights in a few instances have already been adjusted. Also affected are the weights of the luggage we all carry as we get fatter, our clothes grow and get heavier. The airline that I fly for recently increased the average bag weight by five pounds. As always, a compromise will be sought, because a decrease in load-carrying capability will lead to a decrease in revenue-producing capability. Does all this mean that the Air Midwest flight crashed just because of an aft CG? Absolutely not. The NTSB is pretty good about keeping its cards close to the vest, and if there are further developments that indicate other contributing causes, they will be made public only when the board has confidence in its findings. History tells us that this accident will be the result of a number of things going wrong at the wrong time and the wrong place. Terminology One of the biggest problems that the media and the public have with aviation is getting the terminology straight. Stalls, as described previously, are a great example. The definition of, cause of, and effect of carburetor ice is another one that has gotten people tongue-tied. Hydraulic failures in a car usually mean that you lose the brakes, and nothing more. In an airplane, it may mean the inability to lower or raise the landing gear, or in a jet, the actuation of all the flight controls. Vertigo is another misused term that got tossed around a lot after John F. Kennedy Jr. crashed. For most people it means some form of dizziness. In flight, it is usually induced by a loss of control. If a pilot is not capable of flying on instruments, a loss of control may be caused by spatial disorientation or vertigo. This is not the same as someone who is having dizzy spells from an ear infection. When people ask you to explain what certain things mean, it is critical that you be certain you can answer the question as clearly and accurately as you can. If you aren't sure, or don't recall, take the time to look up the definition of the term. Don't make it worse by guessing. As a pilot, you have a responsibility to accurately and honestly represent aviation to avoid aggravating the negative feelings people may already have. It is important to be as honest as you can when answering questions about an accident. Embellishments, guessing, and early blame games don't help anyone. People you know who don't fly are trusting you because you are familiar with something that they are not. If you don't know the answer, say so. If you are unsure, do your homework before making the situation worse. Be knowledgeable, firm, and unemotional. This is one time when you really are an ambassador of aviation, and you need to act like it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles "Chip" Wright, AOPA 1086994, of Hebron, Kentucky, is a CRJ captain for Comair. He has accumulated 5,700 hours in 13 years of flying and is currently building a Van's Aircraft RV-8. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76784#76784 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:55 PM PST US From: "Mack Kreizenbeck" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL Thanks David for sharing your trip and pixs. I'm sure this will give others the incentive to do something similar. Another subject: does anyone out there know how to take photos, without the streaks, through those 601 bubbles? The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho 601 XL quick build ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL From: "David X" aprazer(at)cableone.net wrote: > does anyone out there know how to take photos, without the streaks, through those 601 bubbles? Polarizer filter on the lens. I'm also an amateur photographer. These pictures were NOT taken with my $1000 lens. They were taken with a picture phone! :D -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76806#76806 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Spar bolt hole question From: "Husky Larry J" I have just built my wing jig. The web was cut by CNC and the middle spar bolt hole was placed in full size on the web per the plans. I obtained a drill bushing with a 1/8th pilot hole in the middle. I placed this in the hole in the web. It was a perfect tight fit. I drilled a 1/8th hole in the first flat bar and then drilled this out to the full size with a new Dewalt drill bit. I did this on all 4 flat bars and put everything together. The holes look great and when I place the spar bolts in the hole, it is snug and will not come out without some push. I tried this on the jig, before I drilled the holes in my center wing. My center wing web also has the 3 spar bolt holes already cut and located in the web. I have everything else already drilled, clecoed and bolted together on the center wing. Everything looks great and all I need to do to finish it is drill out the 12 holes for the spar bolts. Will the above described method work well for the 12 spar holes on the center wing. I sure like how snug they are in the wing jig. Larry Husky Lakeview, OR ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:21 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spar bolt hole question Hi Larry, I'm afraid the approved way to drill these holes is to drill them undersize and then ream them to exact needed size. If you use a reamer on the aligned holes then the finished hole should be perfect. I'm not sure how far you are from my shop (which is an hour from downtown Portland) but if you want to come over for a visit I could loan you the proper reamer. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 04:08 PM 11/24/2006, you wrote: >I have just built my wing jig. The web was cut by CNC and the >middle spar bolt hole was placed in full size on the web per the >plans. I obtained a drill bushing with a 1/8th pilot hole in the >middle. I placed this in the hole in the web. It was a perfect >tight fit. I drilled a 1/8th hole in the first flat bar and then >drilled this out to the full size with a new Dewalt drill bit. I >did this on all 4 flat bars and put everything together. The holes >look great and when I place the spar bolts in the hole, it is snug >and will not come out without some push. I tried this on the jig, >before I drilled the holes in my center wing. My center wing web >also has the 3 spar bolt holes already cut and located in the >web. I have everything else already drilled, clecoed and bolted >together on the center wing. Everything looks great and all I need >to do to finish it is drill out the 12 holes for the spar >bolts. Will the above described method work well for the 12 spar >holes on the center wing. I sure like how snug they are in the wing jig. > >Larry Husky >Lakeview, OR --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:05 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL >I didn't post it in this forum because, frankly....( I can't believe how often people get angry over these lists.) Great trip! Thanks for sharing it. I'll take the adventures of mountain flying over dodging T-storms any day. Dave Smith N701XL 600hrs ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:06 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL In the case of the 601. the best thing to do is to build a mount on the outside of the plane to carry the camera. Usually when you want to take pictures through glass you will try to shoot perpendicular to the glass. However in the case of the 601 the glass is a compound curve and the direction you will want to shoot will seldom be perpendicular to the glass. Touching the glass with the lens of the camera will result in a blurred picture caused by engine vibrations moving the lens of the camera. That leaves us with two other possibilities. Remove the bubble for a half windshield (Warm climate or woollies) or have an small hatch opening in side of the bubble to shoot through. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Mack Kreizenbeck > Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 5:08 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL > > > > > Thanks David for sharing your trip and pixs. I'm sure this > will give others > the incentive to do something similar. > Another subject: does anyone out there know how to take > photos, without the > streaks, through those 601 bubbles? > The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho > 601 XL quick build > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:09 PM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Low Fuel Alarm. Paul, I have the low fuel limit on my Grand Rapids EIS (Engine Instrumentation System) set to Flash a caution light when I reach 5 U.S. gaL I have a fuel fuel turbine installed and providing data to the EIS , and it is pretty accurate. The only time I have the caution light go off was when I forget to reset gallons on board in the EIS when I refueled. Of course this measures only what is being supplied to the engine. Any leak before the fuel flow turbine is not counted. I always double check my sump valves to make sure they are not leaking. One concern I did have was the location of the gascolator on the bottom of the fuselage, especially since I do not have wheel fairings. I installed a removable FOD shield around the gascolator shaped like an airfoil but with access to still sump the gascolator before flight. If I ever do have a foreign object thrown by the nose wheel toward the gascolator, hopefully the shield will deflect it, preventing potential damage with possible loss of fuel. Tony Graziano 601XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 175 hrs ----- From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Low Fuel Alarm. I wonder if the lesson of fuel starvation can be used to give us all a safer future. Rather than focus on how much fuel we have before takeoff or making sure we constantly look at the boring fuel gauges it might be nice to look at the possibility of having electronics in our planes warn us if fuel is running low. It seems even a few minutes warning of low fuel would be sufficient to find a satisfactory place to land. I don't know what is available on the market today. Perhaps other listers can tell us if there is a low cost and/or reasonable piece of equipment that can give a low fuel warning. I know there are many fuel monitoring devices, but I don't know which are low enough in cost, dependable, and easy enough to use to be of great value. What about the fancy new engine monitoring systems? Do they provide low fuel alarms? I hope anyone with knowledge or ideas on this question will speak up. Paul XL fuselage ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.