Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:44 AM - Re: Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Bolding)
2. 05:56 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Wingrider)
3. 06:57 AM - Re: Fuel Knowledge (BELTEDAIR@aol.com)
4. 07:00 AM - .093 Angles (Wade Jones)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: .093 Angles (Zodie Rocket)
6. 07:34 AM - Re: .093 Angles (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 08:41 AM - Re: LRI Probe location (Stanley Challgren)
8. 08:44 AM - Re: Vortex Generators on 601 HDS (Stanley Challgren)
9. 08:54 AM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Gary Gower)
10. 09:34 AM - Re: .093 Angles (Wade Jones)
11. 09:35 AM - Re: .093 Angles (Wade Jones)
12. 09:59 AM - Re: .093 Angles (LHusky@aol.com)
13. 10:06 AM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Gig Giacona)
14. 10:15 AM - AOA (john butterfield)
15. 10:48 AM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (David X)
16. 11:00 AM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Mack Kreizenbeck)
17. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Trainnut01@aol.com)
18. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Craig Payne)
19. 12:18 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 01:23 PM - Egos'R'Us (Dave Ruddiman)
21. 01:34 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Randy Stout)
22. 02:50 PM - Re: .093 Angles (Wade Jones)
23. 03:02 PM - Re: Be a good aviation ambassador - don't speculate on accidents ()
24. 03:07 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Zodie Rocket)
25. 04:08 PM - Re: Be a good aviation ambassador - don't speculate on accidents (Bill Naumuk)
26. 04:18 PM - Re: .093 Angles (Randy L. Thwing)
27. 05:11 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (afterfxllc@aol.com)
28. 05:12 PM - [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Gig Giacona)
29. 05:18 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Gig Giacona)
30. 05:36 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Juan Vega)
31. 05:37 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Juan Vega)
32. 05:43 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (Mike)
33. 06:06 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (Paul Mulwitz)
34. 06:07 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (Randy)
35. 06:16 PM - Running out of gas without leaks (LarryMcFarland)
36. 06:20 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (Dave Ruddiman)
37. 06:47 PM - Re: Low Fuel Alarm. (Wingrider)
38. 06:48 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Southern Reflections)
39. 06:52 PM - Re: .093 Angles (Wade Jones)
40. 07:19 PM - Re: .093 Angles (ROBERT SCEPPA)
41. 07:25 PM - 3D CAD 701 cockpit drawing (Les Goldner)
42. 07:29 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Danny Offill)
43. 08:07 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (David X)
44. 08:09 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (afterfxllc@aol.com)
45. 08:11 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash (afterfxllc@aol.com)
46. 08:14 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (afterfxllc@aol.com)
47. 08:18 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (afterfxllc@aol.com)
48. 09:21 PM - Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Richard E. Swan)
49. 09:27 PM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
50. 09:29 PM - Re: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ plus 2 others (Gary Gower)
51. 10:13 PM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Graham Kirby)
52. 10:43 PM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (Gary Gower)
53. 10:50 PM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (JOHN STARN)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Just thought of something that happened to me recently and thought it pertinent.
Several months ago I sold my Pacer and delivered it from Houston to Orlando, arrived
at the buyers airpark and parked the plane in his NICE hanger while we went
to dinner, upon return discovered 16 gal of 100ll had been dumped on his floor
due to a gascolator that had chosen this time to split. Unit was about 4
yrs old. Central Fla has a LOT of trees and I had just flown over most of them.
Gas gauges are not famous for accuracy or reliability but they sure as hell wouldn't
have been BORING as someone mentioned if they had suddenly started falling.
No matter how well you prepare and plan ,nasty things happen sometimes. Hopefully
by employing the 7 "P" rule the frequency stays low. (Proper preperation
probably prevents piss poor performance.)
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Carroll
Can you tell me if the float switch 6905-400 you use has both NO and NC contacts?
I'm thinking of using one as a high fuel level switch to shut off the transfer
pump to the center tank when it's full.
Maybe two switches the one above to turn off the pump, and a second low level switch
to turn on the transfer pump.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76855#76855
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Knowledge |
FAT GUY, fat guy, who you calling a stiiinking fat guy. Even though I could
possibly be construed as a fat guy I think well rounded better fits the
description, and fuel, who needs it with a chevy we have to drain at least 5 gallons
before every take off to keep from venting on take off....
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For the scratch builders
,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle material be located .Is it acceptable to use
.0125 in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
This has been discussed several times and is in the archives several
times. But that being said, the .093 is a custom extrusion for Zenith
and not readily available. You are approved to use .125 6061 T6 or 6061
T6511 Now try to make sure you use North American manufacturers. Such
as Bon-L , Alcan , Alcoa, Can-Art , Kaiser .
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Jones
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: .093 Angles
Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For the scratch builders
,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle material be located .Is it acceptable to use
.0125 in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
"http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com
"http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
--
11/25/2006
--
11/25/2006
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Wade,
I got a replacement part from ZAC when I screwed up one of the .093
uprights on my XL. Shirley told me they get the .093 angle in Canada.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:59 AM 11/25/2006, you wrote:
>Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For the scratch
>builders ,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle material be located .Is it
>acceptable to use .0125 in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LRI Probe location |
Jean-Paul:
I put my LRI in the left wing tip in line with the lightening holes.
The inspection plate to be installed will allow access to both the
LRI and the wing tip light.
The placement was suggested by the Owner of LRI. He indicated it
could go any where there would not be disturbed ahead of it.
Stan
On Nov 11, 2006, at 6:18 AM, Jean-Paul Roy wrote:
> Good day listers, I'm actually building my wings (both at the same
> time since I have 2 tables).
>
> As I am looking forward to install a LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator)
> on my 701, I wondered if it would be indicated to prepare ahead of
> time for the installation of the probe (cutting the opening for the
> probe and installing the vinyl tubing inside the wing before
> skinning).
>
> Now my question; Where exactly do I cut the opening for the
> probe ? ie beside wich rib and how far from the leading edge ? How
> big of an opening ?
>
> Thanks kindly for any infos.
>
> Jean-Paul Roy
> Angliers, Qc.
> working on wing skeleton
> ============================================================ _-
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators on 601 HDS |
Dick:
We installed VG's on our 601 HDS and it reduced the stall speed 6
mph. The biggest advantage was the increased stability during the
landing phase and the added capability of aerodynamic braking after
touchdown.
Stan
On Nov 11, 2006, at 7:55 PM, DICK WILBERS wrote:
> Dear List:
>
> Has anyone installed Vortex Generators on the 601 HDS? I have met a
> guy from Niagara Aircraft, a Canadian Co., who says he can furnish
> VG's for the 601 HDS. This may be interesting if he is correct.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard in Florida
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
A cheap alarm will be to drink a Pepsi or a Coke before every flight... Our blader
alarm will prevent us from running out of fuel :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote: Hi Tracy,
Thanks for the kind words.
I guess I should expand my original thoughts a little.
First let me say I agree with the notion that fuel gauges are not accurate. However,
since we build our own planes we can adjust the senders to indicate what
we want. I chose to set mine so they were reasonably accurate on the empty
side and not necessarily much use when the tanks are full. Of course, I did
this because I have much better ways to tell when the tanks are full - by removing
the filler cap and looking.
Even so, I know I don't spend a lot of time looking at the fuel gauges when flying.
Indeed, I don't look at any of the non-flight instruments unless something
prompts me to look. That is why I like the idea of electronics to watch the
fuel quantity along with other boring stuff like oil temperature, alternator
function, battery charge (HMMMMM, I wonder if this is available), CHT, EGT,
and similar stuff. I was just reading specifications for the Dynon monitoring
system and it will do most of these things. It seems well worth the price to
me. I would rather use my eyes to look for aluminum clouds.
I have always depended on flight planning to insure sufficient fuel for any flight.
This is really easy if you know your plane holds 4 hours of fuel and your
bladder is worthless after 2 hours. A life long habit of filling the tanks
for each flight works well with this scenario. Still there is always the possibility
of a fuel leak (or missing gas cap) spoiling your plan. It would be
nice for the instruments to jump up and down and say "Watch it chum, fuel is nearly
gone."
Paul
XL fuselage
At 04:53 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote:
Hello Paul:
I always enjoy your posts - keep them coming !
Seems to me the only way a low fuel alarm would be any good is to improve the
quality of the signal being used to evaluate the amount of usuable fuel available....simply
put - better fuel level monitoring ! Since we all agree the fuel
gauges in most GA aircraft are damn near worthless, we need to improve on the
reliability of that signal (including the design of the fuel tanks to minimize
inaccuracies) before sounding any kind of alarm.
The best all-around answer seems to me to be a combination of a VERY accurate
fuel level monitor which works primarily on the ground to determine fuel available
at the start of flight, and then highly accurate inflight monitoring of consumption,
working it's way down to an alarm status. This seems to be suited
perfectly to engine management technology.
Only my opinion - flame away !!
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved)
---------------------------------
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thank you Mark . Wade
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Zodie Rocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: .093 Angles
This has been discussed several times and is in the archives several
times. But that being said, the .093 is a custom extrusion for Zenith
and not readily available. You are approved to use .125 6061 T6 or 6061
T6511 Now try to make sure you use North American manufacturers. Such
as Bon-L , Alcan , Alcoa, Can-Art , Kaiser .
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Jones
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:00 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: .093 Angles
Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For the scratch
builders ,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle material be located .Is it
acceptable to use .0125 in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.
Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this
year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric
www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
* Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP
www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your generous
support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Zenith-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
--
11/25/2006
--
11/25/2006
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thank you Paul , Wade
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: .093 Angles
Hi Wade,
I got a replacement part from ZAC when I screwed up one of the .093
uprights on my XL. Shirley told me they get the .093 angle in Canada.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:59 AM 11/25/2006, you wrote:
Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For the scratch
builders ,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle material be located .Is it
acceptable to use .0125 in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Wade, I used .125 for my longerons and it works fine. It is just a little
harder to bend the longerons. As far as spacing goes, I used them to make
6W4-4, which is what 6B17-6 connects to. In the plans, it calls for 70mm from
outer edge to outer edge. I believe that I ended up with 72mm for a good fit.
As far as the bottom longeron splice, we used a thicker spacer to make up
the thicker longeron. Good luck
Larry Husky
XL Fuselage
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I don't know what your problem is David X. I hope it is concern over the loss of
a fellow pilot, especially one that is flying an aircraft like your own. But
statements as you have made in know way help the situation. As I said, I read
the report and I even quoted the passage that brought up my question.
I asked this question specifically because I understand the 601XL fuel system and
the fact that the report was showing virtually no fuel in the aircraft or the
area surrounding the crash seems incredibly difficult for me to believe. I
asked the question in the hope that someone might be able to give me a scenario
where it could happen.
That said, the reason for this forum is for the builders and flyers of Zenith's
aircraft to learn from others. Usually that learning comes from others experience
and sometimes that learning comes from others mistakes. There is something
to learn from everything written about this and every accident. (That is the
reason the NTSB does the investigations in the first place.) Often the things
to be learned aren't directly from the specific issue in question but things
that are brought up in conversation that was started because of an accident, mistake
or experience.
You will note that I have in no way mentioned any of the "Eye-Witness" details.
They have historically shown to be of very little use and even the NTSB only
gives them any weight if there is solid physical evidence to back them up.
If there is something that can be learned from this accident with the information
already released by the NTSB or from conversation about that information it
might well cause another accident not to happen.
We do know somethings.
1. An aircraft like the one we are building and/or flying crashed.
2. It seems likely that the crash was due to fuel starvation and the starvation
was unique in that it looks like the aircraft didn't even have what we would
consider an amount of unusable fuel. This is either the case or the NTSB prelim
report was very poorly written.
If you are unwilling to learn from the past you are condemned to repeat it.
David X wrote:
> Uh huh ... whatever.
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
> > I read the report very carefully.
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76887#76887
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
hi list.
it is poor planning or bad luck that makes one run out
of gas. it could happen to anyone.
the real lession to be learned is that you can
probably survive a crash if you are in control of the
machine. I have only responded to flying issues once
over the last two years, but at the risk of being
flamed, i will repeat my advise. every pilot in this
interesting group should take the time to fly an
aircraft equiped with an angle of attack (lift
indicator)gague as soon as possible. once you use it,
you will be hooked. it will keep you flying until
impact. i know we all have contemplated an engine out
condition. i truly believe that most of us can and
will survive a 50 mph controlled crash if we steer the
aircraft, even if you must land between houses (seat
belt attachments aside)
i don't sell anything related to aircraft and have no
interest other than spreading the word regarding the
most important safty of flight instrument on your
plane
(my opinion) I plan to use a glass panel, and the
only backup instruments i plan to have is an atlimeter
and my AOA system.
off the soap box and my deepest condolences to the
family and friends of our fellow zenith driver.
john butterfield
601XL corvair
torrance, ca
Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr
MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Assoc
http://yahoo.degrees.info
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I don't know what your problem is David X.
I think you're reading too much into my reply, the same as you did when reading
into the NTSB report of two ounces recovered. Lighten up.
[Idea] Here's an idea ... since you're not going to be flying Jim's plane, maybe
you could fill your own bone-dry tank with a known quantity of fuel and then
drain as much as you possible can (likely what the NTSB did ... but I don't want
to speculate). How much is left inside the tank? Is it really 1/2 gallon unusable?
Are you planning to try this mid-flight? Be sure to share with us what
you learn from your experience so we all can learn too. [Rolling Eyes]
I guess I'm turning into one of those pricks I complain about on this forum. Maybe
now I understand how they turn into pricks ... it's just sheer frustration
with people who are somehow genetically programmed to argue ... they just cant
help it.
Its like the time this guy was adamant that 3 gallons of paint didnt weigh anything
at all. I re-published technical research from the Dupont web site just to
see how deeply this guy was genetically programmed to argue. He must have poured
over the reams of research material and cherry-picked the items that would
prove himself right, and the rest of us wrong. I have to say he won the argument
... but somehow the laws of the universe dictate that 3 gallons of paint
indeed has mass. The need to be right was pathological and the state of denial
was unbelievable. Is this the right state of mind to be a pilot? [Shocked]
I say "genetically programmed", because otherwise it would just be a plain old
garden variety mental defect ... and its not nice to tell people they are mentally
defective. At least I know I am. [Wink]
Relax, Gig ... oh, and we're all looking forward to that field experiment of yours.
[Wink]
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76891#76891
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
Juan,
I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I
hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there
got any suggestions?
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
601 XL QBK
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
Rich
No. It only has one set of contacts. But if it was mounted high in the tank
it would turn off when the fuel level rose above it. It could also be inverted
to turn on when the fuel level reaches it. Not sure what that would be good
for unless you wanted a full tank warning.
Carroll Jernigan
Lenoir City TN
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
This is an optical low fuel sensor sold by Pillar Point Avionics:
www.ppavionics.com/LFL.htm
They also use the same sensor in a system which automatically transfers fuel
from wing tanks to a header tank.
Aircraft Spruce sells a similar system made by Aircraft Extras:
www.aircraftextras.com/FuelSensor1.htm
-- Craig
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Actually, I have noticed many cases where the NTSB quotes accident
witnesses, but it seems to nearly always quote statements from "Pilot
rated" witnesses.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 10:06 AM 11/25/2006, you wrote:
>You will note that I have in no way mentioned any of the
>"Eye-Witness" details. They have historically shown to be of very
>little use and even the NTSB only gives them any weight if there is
>solid physical evidence to back them up.
--
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
So, If we (meaning you guys, surely not me) were to take all the time it
took to post all the opinions and insults to each other and put it
towards building an aircraft, (if everyone could get along long enough
to do it) then we (again meaning you guys and not me) could probably
have built and be flying by now. And one more thing. You don't know
where I live and I can delete you if I want. So there.
Dave - formerly from Salem
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
I think I have brought this up before, and I'll bring it up again. The KR
group puts on a fly-in every year. It is completely sponsored by the
build/flyer/wannabees. Check out http://www.krgathering.org/ . They elect a
place and sponsor each year. It's mostly financed by donations and sales of
hats and t-shirts. I think it would be great to have such a gathering of
Zenith folks. They usually have volunteers do different demonstrations. In
their case things like carving foam and laying up fiberglass. For us,
someone could do demos for building spars or bending ribs and such. I think
we have a very nice place to hold one here in San Antonio, but I have too
many issues to be able to sponsor it. Maybe someone else could do the main
sponsoring and I could help. The local EAA chapter has a club house
w/kitchen, and smoker/bbq grill. There's place for camping or stay at the
local hotels.
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
n282rs at earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mack
Kreizenbeck
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
--> <aprazer@cableone.net>
Juan,
I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I
hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there
got any suggestions? The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho 601 XL QBK
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks Larry , Wade
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: .093 Angles
Wade, I used .125 for my longerons and it works fine. It is just a
little harder to bend the longerons. As far as spacing goes, I used
them to make 6W4-4, which is what 6B17-6 connects to. In the plans, it
calls for 70mm from outer edge to outer edge. I believe that I ended up
with 72mm for a good fit. As far as the bottom longeron splice, we used
a thicker spacer to make up the thicker longeron. Good luck
Larry Husky
XL Fuselage
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Be a good aviation ambassador - don't speculate on accidents |
David, good post. It's important that we keep speculation down, partic
ularly in an open environment, where the uninitiated, and the sansatio
n-seeking may twist our words into what they want to use for their ben
efit. (circulation, audience share, whatever.) If I hear another vidoe
doofus describe how the engine stalled, I may barf. I intentionally m
aintained your entire post, to drive home the attached words of wisdom
=0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A601XL/Corvair=0A ----- Original M
essage ----- =0A From: David X<mailto:dxj@comcast.net> =0A To:
zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com> =0A S
ent: Friday, November 24, 2006 12:22 PM=0A Subject: Zenith-List: B
e a good aviation ambassador - don't speculate on accidents=0A
et<mailto:dxj@comcast.net>>=0A=0A Folks - I appologize to those
who I've flamed lately on this post. It's not so much a flame as a se
nse of urgency that people stop speculating. It hurts us all. =0A
=0A The article below came from the AOPA archive. I've quoted it h
ere for those who are not AOPA members. =0A=0A http://www.aopa.
org/members/files/pilot/2003/speak0311.html<http://www.aopa.org/member
s/files/pilot/2003/speak0311.html> =0A ---------------------------
---------------------------------------------=0A Speak No Evil
=0A Helping nonpilots understand aviation accidents=0A BY CHIP WR
IGHT (From AOPA Pilot, November 2003.)=0A=0A Every year, more t
han 40,000 people die in auto accidents in the United States. At some
point in your life, you will probably know at least one of those peopl
e. Less than 1 percent of that number will die in airplane accidents.
As a certificated pilot, you may or may not eventually know one of the
m.=0A=0A When it comes to explaining a car accident, people und
erstand such things as brake failures, icy or wet roads, dangerous cur
ves, failure to stop for a light or a sign, even drunk driving. The fa
ct that most people in this country either drive or ride in cars makes
automobile accidents something we can all relate to. When an accident
happens, we may not understand why the people involved behave the way
they do (such as driving when they've been drinking), but we can all
understand the how or why of a driver losing control. Even if you have
never lost control of a car, you have probably been in one that slipp
ed a little on a wet road, or accidentally driven through a red light
or a stop sign. Your heart jumps, and you might imagine how the situat
ion could have been a lot worse.=0A=0A Aviation is different. A
irplanes are involved in far fewer accidents than cars. Airliners are
involved in the fewest accidents of all, so when they do occur, it is
indeed news. Unfortunately, because of the rarity of such accidents, t
hey garner a lot of attention, and almost from the minute the media ar
rive, they start to speculate on the cause.=0A=0A Those of us w
ho are pilots tend to get a lot of phone calls from our friends and fa
mily when an airplane is involved in an accident or incident. People w
ho are not intimately familiar with aviation often want a quick and un
derstandable answer to the question of what caused a particular accide
nt. As people who only fly as passengers, and who fly only on occasion
, they want some kind of reassurance that airplanes, and pilots, reall
y are safe. How you answer these questions can have a strong impact on
the impression of aviation you leave with your friends and family.
=0A=0A Dealing with questions=0A The most important thing you
can do is immediately counsel the need for patience as the investigati
on process goes on. In the rush to gather information and report the f
acts, the mainstream news media often do not have as much information
as they need in order to accurately report what happened. They may kno
w that a single-engine plane crashed near a road. They may even specul
ate that the airplane was trying to land on the road because an eyewit
ness said the airplane "appeared" to be having engine trouble, and was
looking for a place to land. Furthermore, they may report that the wi
tness said the airplane stalled prior to landing.=0A=0A There a
re several problems with this particular statement. For starters, inve
stigative bodies, including the National Transportation Safety Board (
NTSB), which is responsible for investigating aviation accidents, have
long known that eyewitness reports in such circumstances are often of
questionable value. The sequence of events occurs so fast and at such
a distance that it can be difficult to accurately restate what happen
ed. Furthermore, the word stall means different things to pilots. For
pilots, a stall is the result of a wing losing lift. We don't tend to
refer to engine problems as stalls like we do in a car. In this case,
it is unclear whether the witness means the wing stalled or the engine
stopped operating. The difference is significant. A failed engine doe
s not necessarily have to lead to an accident, whereas a stall of the
wing at low altitude probably will. As for speculating about the pilot
's intent, none of us can yet read minds.=0A=0A After preaching
the need to wait for the relevant facts to emerge, it is important th
at you yourself do not start to speculate on exactly what caused an ac
cident. This can be difficult because if the airplane is one with whic
h you are familiar, it can be tempting to try and tie the loose ends t
ogether and reach a conclusion about what happened. You may be right.
But more important, you may be wrong.=0A=0A In January 1997, th
ere was a crash of an Embraer Brasilia in Detroit. The Brasilia was a
common turboprop commuter aircraft that was popular in the 1980s and 1
990s. It also had a history of propeller overspeed problems that led t
o several accidents. In the immediate aftermath of the accident, there
was a lot of speculation on what role the propeller may have played i
n the accident, as well as what role weather might have played, as the
airplane was making an approach through icing conditions.=0A=0A
Problems with the propellers were ruled out fairly quickly, but not
until after a lot of intense media coverage. The weather, however, had
everyone's attention from the beginning, particularly in light of the
Roselawn, Indiana, accident involving an American Eagle ATR 72 a few
years prior. In most weather accidents, the crew is put under intense
scrutiny, almost to the point of being guilty until proven innocent. T
his accident was no exception. But like a good mystery novel, there wa
s a twist. In the end, the Brasilia crew was found to have operated th
e airplane in full accordance with the airplane flight manual. The pro
blem was that they had not received information that could have helped
them take corrective action to avoid the accident. The NTSB determine
d that the probable causes of the accident were the FAA's failure to e
stablish adequate aircraft certification standards for flight in icing
conditions, the FAA's failure to ensure that an FAA/CTA-approved proc
edure for t!=0A he accident airplane's deice system operation was
implemented by U.S.-based air carriers, and the FAA's failure to requ
ire the establishment of adequate minimum airspeeds for icing conditio
ns, which led to the loss of control when the airplane accumulated a t
hin, rough accretion of ice on its lifting surfaces. All 29 people on
board were killed. The moral of the story: Wait until the investigatio
n is complete.=0A=0A The pilot=0A As investigations proceed
, and stories about what actions the pilot or pilots took come out, it
is fair to assume that your nonflying friends will ask you how you wo
uld have responded or why the actions taken occurred. This is a bit of
a loaded question, and it definitely puts you in the position of bein
g a Monday-morning quarterback. The best way to handle this is to expl
ain that in learning to fly, a lot of emphasis is put on handling vari
ous in-flight emergencies: loss of an engine, failure of the flaps, lo
ss of electrical power. If you can, show a copy of the Federal Aviatio
n Regulations or the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards to illustr
ate the level of training involved. The goal is not to scare people ev
en more, but to make the point that in a car a mechanical problem is f
irst dealt with by pulling over to the side of the road. In a plane, t
hat just isn't an option. Because of that, aircraft are built with a h
igh level of reliability as well as redundancy. But if!=0A that
reliability or redundancy should fail, it is critical you be able to h
andle it.=0A=0A But again, you can't read the mind of the pilot
involved. If the accident was in a typical general aviation airplane,
it means there won't be any kind of voice or data recorder involved.
The NTSB is pretty good at determining the cause of an accident based
on the condition of the wreckage. While the cause may turn out to be e
asy to determine, the reason for the accident may not be. It isn't fai
r to speculate, but if people insist on asking you questions, you may
be able to at least provide some information about the cause of the ac
cident that is not provided by the media. For instance, if the media r
eports that an airplane crashed during the turn to the final approach
to landing because of a stall, you can explain how an inadvertent cros
s-controlled stall occurs. What you can't do is just say, "Well, he di
dn't know what he was doing; everybody who flies knows to avoid that k
ind of accident." That's a blanket statement, and it may not be fair t
o blame the pilot outright. Whil!=0A e it may have been poor airm
anship, other undetermined factors may have been involved.=0A=0A
In the case of an accident involving an airplane with voice and/or d
ata recorders, you are almost always better off to deflect questions a
bout the cause until the investigation is complete. The NTSB often fin
ds some clues on the tapes regarding the cause of the accident. As I w
rite this, the investigation into Air Midwest Flight 5481 in Charlotte
, North Carolina, the Beech 1900 that hit the hangar after takeoff, is
still ongoing. However, the loading of the airplane has come into que
stion, specifically concerns about the weight of the cargo and the fac
t that cargo is loaded in the back of a 1900, shifting the center of g
ravity aft.=0A=0A This has been of sufficient concern to the FA
A that it has implemented surveys of passenger weights as the average
American gets heavier. Because the airlines all use "average" weights
for passengers and their bags, the concern is that it is time to updat
e ?" and up ?" those numbers to reflect our collective weight in
crease. This is even more critical on smaller airliners where weight a
nd CG are more critical and/or sensitive. For the past several months,
the FAA has been asking the airlines to survey the passengers at rand
om in order to try and pinpoint realistic weights. Passenger weights i
n a few instances have already been adjusted. Also affected are the we
ights of the luggage we all carry ?" as we get fatter, our clothes
grow and get heavier. The airline that I fly for recently increased th
e average bag weight by five pounds.=0A=0A As always, a comprom
ise will be sought, because a decrease in load-carrying capability wil
l lead to a decrease in revenue-producing capability.=0A=0A Doe
s all this mean that the Air Midwest flight crashed just because of an
aft CG? Absolutely not. The NTSB is pretty good about keeping its car
ds close to the vest, and if there are further developments that indic
ate other contributing causes, they will be made public only when the
board has confidence in its findings. History tells us that this accid
ent will be the result of a number of things going wrong at the wrong
time and the wrong place.=0A=0A Terminology=0A One of the b
iggest problems that the media and the public have with aviation is ge
tting the terminology straight. Stalls, as described previously, are a
great example. The definition of, cause of, and effect of carburetor
ice is another one that has gotten people tongue-tied. Hydraulic failu
res in a car usually mean that you lose the brakes, and nothing more.
In an airplane, it may mean the inability to lower or raise the landin
g gear, or in a jet, the actuation of all the flight controls.=0A
=0A Vertigo is another misused term that got tossed around a lot a
fter John F. Kennedy Jr. crashed. For most people it means some form o
f dizziness. In flight, it is usually induced by a loss of control. If
a pilot is not capable of flying on instruments, a loss of control ma
y be caused by spatial disorientation or vertigo. This is not the same
as someone who is having dizzy spells from an ear infection.=0A
=0A When people ask you to explain what certain things mean, it is cr
itical that you be certain you can answer the question as clearly and
accurately as you can. If you aren't sure, or don't recall, take the t
ime to look up the definition of the term. Don't make it worse by gues
sing. As a pilot, you have a responsibility to accurately and honestly
represent aviation to avoid aggravating the negative feelings people
may already have.=0A=0A It is important to be as honest as you
can when answering questions about an accident. Embellishments, guessi
ng, and early blame games don't help anyone. People you know who don't
fly are trusting you because you are familiar with something that the
y are not. If you don't know the answer, say so. If you are unsure, do
your homework before making the situation worse. Be knowledgeable, fi
rm, and unemotional. This is one time when you really are an ambassado
r of aviation, and you need to act like it.=0A=0A=0A=0A -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------=0A=0A=0A Charles "Chip" Wright, AOPA 1086994, of H
ebron, Kentucky, is a CRJ captain for Comair. He has accumulated 5,700
hours in 13 years of flying and is currently building a Van's Aircraf
t RV-8.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Read this topic online here:
=0A=0A http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76784#76784<h
ttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76784#76784>=0A=0A
=======================
=======================
s Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>=0A
=======================
=======================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.c
=======================
=======================
====0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
This is Kind of covered in a way. At Sun-N-Fun we have the Webmasters
BBQ in which I buy a burger and dog for every Zenith builder and owner.
That is held on the Thursday of the event and involves over 120 people.
Next on the list is the Official Builders Dinner at Oshkosh with this
years attendance being at 136 builders and owners, this is held on the
Thursday of the show. Next on the list is the Zenith open house at
Zenith Mexico Missouri, Then Can-Zac Aviation Ltd in Ontario Canada and
finally we have the Zenith gathering at Quality Sport planes in
California. I'm not sure we need more? But I'm more then willing to hold
another event at Arlington, all I need is an interest to get it started.
I have a builder that lives in the area and I should be able to put
something together on the Thursday of the event.
Do we need more? I would LOVE to see more at Sun-N-Fun this spring,
remember I'm buying and for those of you who have never been there I
hope others on this list will be able to tell you how they like the BBQ
Event at Sun-in-Fun! For those who have attended the BBQ lets hear your
stories of the event!
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stout
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
I think I have brought this up before, and I'll bring it up again. The
KR
group puts on a fly-in every year. It is completely sponsored by the
build/flyer/wannabees. Check out http://www.krgathering.org/ . They
elect a
place and sponsor each year. It's mostly financed by donations and sales
of
hats and t-shirts. I think it would be great to have such a gathering
of
Zenith folks. They usually have volunteers do different demonstrations.
In
their case things like carving foam and laying up fiberglass. For us,
someone could do demos for building spars or bending ribs and such. I
think
we have a very nice place to hold one here in San Antonio, but I have
too
many issues to be able to sponsor it. Maybe someone else could do the
main
sponsoring and I could help. The local EAA chapter has a club house
w/kitchen, and smoker/bbq grill. There's place for camping or stay at
the
local hotels.
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
n282rs at earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mack
Kreizenbeck
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
--> <aprazer@cableone.net>
Juan,
I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group.
I
hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out
there
got any suggestions? The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho 601 XL
QBK
--
11/25/2006
--
11/25/2006
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Be a good aviation ambassador - don't speculate on accidents |
I think I told this sad but true story before.
There was a fatal crash at one of the airports in our area. The local TV
talking head asked an airport bum if the cause was engine trouble. The
local said "Absolutely". The next shot was of the wreck, an old
Schweitzer 2 place training glider.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36@msn.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Be a good aviation ambassador - don't
speculate on accidents
David, good post. It's important that we keep speculation down,
particularly in an open environment, where the uninitiated, and the
sansation-seeking may twist our words into what they want to use for
their benefit. (circulation, audience share, whatever.) If I hear
another vidoedoofus describe how the engine stalled, I may barf. I
intentionally maintained your entire post, to drive home the attached
words of wisdom.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: David X
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 12:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Be a good aviation ambassador - don't
speculate on accidents
Folks - I appologize to those who I've flamed lately on this post.
It's not so much a flame as a sense of urgency that people stop
speculating. It hurts us all.
The article below came from the AOPA archive. I've quoted it here
for those who are not AOPA members.
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2003/speak0311.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speak No Evil
Helping nonpilots understand aviation accidents
BY CHIP WRIGHT (From AOPA Pilot, November 2003.)
Every year, more than 40,000 people die in auto accidents in the
United States. At some point in your life, you will probably know at
least one of those people. Less than 1 percent of that number will die
in airplane accidents. As a certificated pilot, you may or may not
eventually know one of them.
When it comes to explaining a car accident, people understand such
things as brake failures, icy or wet roads, dangerous curves, failure to
stop for a light or a sign, even drunk driving. The fact that most
people in this country either drive or ride in cars makes automobile
accidents something we can all relate to. When an accident happens, we
may not understand why the people involved behave the way they do (such
as driving when they've been drinking), but we can all understand the
how or why of a driver losing control. Even if you have never lost
control of a car, you have probably been in one that slipped a little on
a wet road, or accidentally driven through a red light or a stop sign.
Your heart jumps, and you might imagine how the situation could have
been a lot worse.
Aviation is different. Airplanes are involved in far fewer accidents
than cars. Airliners are involved in the fewest accidents of all, so
when they do occur, it is indeed news. Unfortunately, because of the
rarity of such accidents, they garner a lot of attention, and almost
from the minute the media arrive, they start to speculate on the cause.
Those of us who are pilots tend to get a lot of phone calls from our
friends and family when an airplane is involved in an accident or
incident. People who are not intimately familiar with aviation often
want a quick and understandable answer to the question of what caused a
particular accident. As people who only fly as passengers, and who fly
only on occasion, they want some kind of reassurance that airplanes, and
pilots, really are safe. How you answer these questions can have a
strong impact on the impression of aviation you leave with your friends
and family
Dealing with questions
The most important thing you can do is immediately counsel the need
for patience as the investigation process goes on. In the rush to gather
information and report the facts, the mainstream news media often do not
have as much information as they need in order to accurately report what
happened. They may know that a single-engine plane crashed near a road.
They may even speculate that the airplane was trying to land on the road
because an eyewitness said the airplane "appeared" to be having engine
trouble, and was looking for a place to land. Furthermore, they may
report that the witness said the airplane stalled prior to landing.
There are several problems with this particular statement. For
starters, investigative bodies, including the National Transportation
Safety Board (NTSB), which is responsible for investigating aviation
accidents, have long known that eyewitness reports in such circumstances
are often of questionable value. The sequence of events occurs so fast
and at such a distance that it can be difficult to accurately restate
what happened. Furthermore, the word stall means different things to
pilots. For pilots, a stall is the result of a wing losing lift. We
don't tend to refer to engine problems as stalls like we do in a car. In
this case, it is unclear whether the witness means the wing stalled or
the engine stopped operating. The difference is significant. A failed
engine does not necessarily have to lead to an accident, whereas a stall
of the wing at low altitude probably will. As for speculating about the
pilot's intent, none of us can yet read minds.
After preaching the need to wait for the relevant facts to emerge,
it is important that you yourself do not start to speculate on exactly
what caused an accident. This can be difficult because if the airplane
is one with which you are familiar, it can be tempting to try and tie
the loose ends together and reach a conclusion about what happened. You
may be right. But more important, you may be wrong.
In January 1997, there was a crash of an Embraer Brasilia in
Detroit. The Brasilia was a common turboprop commuter aircraft that was
popular in the 1980s and 1990s. It also had a history of propeller
overspeed problems that led to several accidents. In the immediate
aftermath of the accident, there was a lot of speculation on what role
the propeller may have played in the accident, as well as what role
weather might have played, as the airplane was making an approach
through icing conditions.
Problems with the propellers were ruled out fairly quickly, but not
until after a lot of intense media coverage. The weather, however, had
everyone's attention from the beginning, particularly in light of the
Roselawn, Indiana, accident involving an American Eagle ATR 72 a few
years prior. In most weather accidents, the crew is put under intense
scrutiny, almost to the point of being guilty until proven innocent.
This accident was no exception. But like a good mystery novel, there was
a twist. In the end, the Brasilia crew was found to have operated the
airplane in full accordance with the airplane flight manual. The problem
was that they had not received information that could have helped them
take corrective action to avoid the accident. The NTSB determined that
the probable causes of the accident were the FAA's failure to establish
adequate aircraft certification standards for flight in icing
conditions, the FAA's failure to ensure that an FAA/CTA-approved
procedure for t!
he accident airplane's deice system operation was implemented by
U.S.-based air carriers, and the FAA's failure to require the
establishment of adequate minimum airspeeds for icing conditions, which
led to the loss of control when the airplane accumulated a thin, rough
accretion of ice on its lifting surfaces. All 29 people on board were
killed. The moral of the story: Wait until the investigation is
complete.
The pilot
As investigations proceed, and stories about what actions the pilot
or pilots took come out, it is fair to assume that your nonflying
friends will ask you how you would have responded or why the actions
taken occurred. This is a bit of a loaded question, and it definitely
puts you in the position of being a Monday-morning quarterback. The best
way to handle this is to explain that in learning to fly, a lot of
emphasis is put on handling various in-flight emergencies: loss of an
engine, failure of the flaps, loss of electrical power. If you can, show
a copy of the Federal Aviation Regulations or the Private Pilot
Practical Test Standards to illustrate the level of training involved.
The goal is not to scare people even more, but to make the point that in
a car a mechanical problem is first dealt with by pulling over to the
side of the road. In a plane, that just isn't an option. Because of
that, aircraft are built with a high level of reliability as well as
redundancy. But if!
that reliability or redundancy should fail, it is critical you be
able to handle it.
But again, you can't read the mind of the pilot involved. If the
accident was in a typical general aviation airplane, it means there
won't be any kind of voice or data recorder involved. The NTSB is pretty
good at determining the cause of an accident based on the condition of
the wreckage. While the cause may turn out to be easy to determine, the
reason for the accident may not be. It isn't fair to speculate, but if
people insist on asking you questions, you may be able to at least
provide some information about the cause of the accident that is not
provided by the media. For instance, if the media reports that an
airplane crashed during the turn to the final approach to landing
because of a stall, you can explain how an inadvertent cross-controlled
stall occurs. What you can't do is just say, "Well, he didn't know what
he was doing; everybody who flies knows to avoid that kind of accident."
That's a blanket statement, and it may not be fair to blame the pilot
outright. Whil!
e it may have been poor airmanship, other undetermined factors may
have been involved.
In the case of an accident involving an airplane with voice and/or
data recorders, you are almost always better off to deflect questions
about the cause until the investigation is complete. The NTSB often
finds some clues on the tapes regarding the cause of the accident. As I
write this, the investigation into Air Midwest Flight 5481 in Charlotte,
North Carolina, the Beech 1900 that hit the hangar after takeoff, is
still ongoing. However, the loading of the airplane has come into
question, specifically concerns about the weight of the cargo and the
fact that cargo is loaded in the back of a 1900, shifting the center of
gravity aft.
This has been of sufficient concern to the FAA that it has
implemented surveys of passenger weights as the average American gets
heavier. Because the airlines all use "average" weights for passengers
and their bags, the concern is that it is time to update ?" and up
?" those numbers to reflect our collective weight increase. This is
even more critical on smaller airliners where weight and CG are more
critical and/or sensitive. For the past several months, the FAA has been
asking the airlines to survey the passengers at random in order to try
and pinpoint realistic weights. Passenger weights in a few instances
have already been adjusted. Also affected are the weights of the luggage
we all carry ?" as we get fatter, our clothes grow and get heavier.
The airline that I fly for recently increased the average bag weight by
five pounds.
As always, a compromise will be sought, because a decrease in
load-carrying capability will lead to a decrease in revenue-producing
capability.
Does all this mean that the Air Midwest flight crashed just because
of an aft CG? Absolutely not. The NTSB is pretty good about keeping its
cards close to the vest, and if there are further developments that
indicate other contributing causes, they will be made public only when
the board has confidence in its findings. History tells us that this
accident will be the result of a number of things going wrong at the
wrong time and the wrong place.
Terminology
One of the biggest problems that the media and the public have with
aviation is getting the terminology straight. Stalls, as described
previously, are a great example. The definition of, cause of, and effect
of carburetor ice is another one that has gotten people tongue-tied.
Hydraulic failures in a car usually mean that you lose the brakes, and
nothing more. In an airplane, it may mean the inability to lower or
raise the landing gear, or in a jet, the actuation of all the flight
controls.
Vertigo is another misused term that got tossed around a lot after
John F. Kennedy Jr. crashed. For most people it means some form of
dizziness. In flight, it is usually induced by a loss of control. If a
pilot is not capable of flying on instruments, a loss of control may be
caused by spatial disorientation or vertigo. This is not the same as
someone who is having dizzy spells from an ear infection.
When people ask you to explain what certain things mean, it is
critical that you be certain you can answer the question as clearly and
accurately as you can. If you aren't sure, or don't recall, take the
time to look up the definition of the term. Don't make it worse by
guessing. As a pilot, you have a responsibility to accurately and
honestly represent aviation to avoid aggravating the negative feelings
people may already have.
It is important to be as honest as you can when answering questions
about an accident. Embellishments, guessing, and early blame games don't
help anyone. People you know who don't fly are trusting you because you
are familiar with something that they are not. If you don't know the
answer, say so. If you are unsure, do your homework before making the
situation worse. Be knowledgeable, firm, and unemotional. This is one
time when you really are an ambassador of aviation, and you need to act
like it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Charles "Chip" Wright, AOPA 1086994, of Hebron, Kentucky, is a CRJ
captain for Comair. He has accumulated 5,700 hours in 13 years of flying
and is currently building a Van's Aircraft RV-8.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=7678========
============= (And Get p; the
Contribution link below to find out more about
www.homebuilthelp.cotronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/cont=
-Matt Dralle, List
=====================http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-L==============
=
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
A small point, but Wade asked for 1 x 1 x .093 angle. Isn't the special
made ZA angle 3/4 x 3/4 x .093? Is Wade asking for the special ZA angle
or for something else? I would guess the 1 x 1 is no easier to find.
I've always heard the ZA angle is made for them in special mill runs.
Anyone can order this size, in 1000 lb. lots, of course!
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, las Vegas
Hi Wade,
I got a replacement part from ZAC when I screwed up one of the .093
uprights on my XL. Shirley told me they get the .093 angle in Canada.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:59 AM 11/25/2006, you wrote:
Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For the scratch
builders ,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle material be located .Is it
acceptable to use .0125 in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
This has really nothing to do with the crash but I would like to point out t
hat anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces of junk fuel lines on their
airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand why anyone woul
d run them and I firmly believe that we are going to start seeing a lot of p
roblems from these lines. I have run 3/8 aluminum lines from the tank to the
pumps. I think that building your airplane to the highest of standards is j
ust as important as your preflight.
-----Original Message-----
From: dxj@comcast.net
Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 1:47 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I don't know what your problem is David X.
I think you're reading too much into my reply, the same as you did when read
ing
into the NTSB report of two ounces recovered. Lighten up.
[Idea] Here's an idea ... since you're not going to be flying Jim's plane, m
aybe
you could fill your own bone-dry tank with a known quantity of fuel and then
drain as much as you possible can (likely what the NTSB did ... but I don't
want
to speculate). How much is left inside the tank? Is it really 1/2 gallon
unusable? Are you planning to try this mid-flight? Be sure to share with us
what
you learn from your experience so we all can learn too. [Rolling Eyes]
I guess I'm turning into one of those pricks I complain about on this forum.
Maybe now I understand how they turn into pricks ... it's just sheer frustra
tion
with people who are somehow genetically programmed to argue ... they just
can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t help it.
It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s like the time this guy was adamant that 3 gallon
s of paint didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t weigh
anything at all. I re-published technical research from the Dupont web site
just
to see how deeply this guy was genetically programmed to argue. He must have
poured over the reams of research material and cherry-picked the items that
would prove himself right, and the rest of us wrong. I have to say he won th
e
argument ... but somehow the laws of the universe dictate that 3 gallons of
paint indeed has mass. The need to be right was pathological and the state o
f
denial was unbelievable. Is this the right state of mind to be a pilot?
[Shocked]
I say "genetically programmed", because otherwise it would just be a plain o
ld
garden variety mental defect ... and it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s not nice to
tell people they are
mentally defective. At least I know I am. [Wink]
Relax, Gig ... oh, and we're all looking forward to that field experiment of
yours. [Wink]
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76891#76891
________________________________________________________________________
ee AOL Mail and more.
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
David X wrote:
>
> I guess I'm turning into one of those pricks
Yeah I guess you are.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76949#76949
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote:
> I'm not sure we need more?
> --
Once my plane is finished any excuse to fly will do.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76951#76951
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
All,
On the topic of getting some time in a 601 plane before first flight, this weekend
I went to West Palm Beach regional in SOuth FLorida to check out a flight
school that has a 601xl. I plan to fly it for two days of instruction, about
four hours before going up in mine. It is an AMD plane and in good shape.
AQny one interested in doing the same and I'll get you the number. They charge
$80/hr. well worth it to get used to the characteristics of the planbe before
hopping in.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mack Kreizenbeck <aprazer@cableone.net>
>Sent: Nov 25, 2006 1:58 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
>
>
>Juan,
>I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I
>hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there
>got any suggestions?
>The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
>601 XL QBK
>
>
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
I am trying to get flight ready for seabring in Florida. That is January 11th
through 14. 2007. Itr will be a big sport plane showcase.
We could meet in St. peteresburg. or there.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mack Kreizenbeck <aprazer@cableone.net>
>Sent: Nov 25, 2006 1:58 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
>
>
>Juan,
>I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I
>hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there
>got any suggestions?
>The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
>601 XL QBK
>
>
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines |
I would like to point out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces of
junk fuel lines on their airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand
why anyone would run them
Maybe because ZAC supplies them with all of their kits?
---------------------------------
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines |
OK, this is getting interesting.
ZAC does indeed supply rubber hose for fuel line. The implication is
that Chris Heintz approves of this material for this use. We all
take as given that Chris, as the designer of the planes we are
building, is a credible authority on how to build a sound airplane.
So, how does an amateur airplane builder (especially a kit plane
builder) resolve the question of whether the materials the designer
specifies are satisfactory or not?
From my humble perspective, the flexible hose seems a lot easier to
work with than metal tubing. It also seems less prone to stress
fractures and other early failure problems. Perhaps it has a limited
life span, but isn't this why we do annual condition inspections?
Paul
XL fuselage
>I would like to point out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot
>pieces of junk fuel lines on their airplane is just asking for
>trouble IMHO I don't understand why anyone would run them
>
>
>Maybe because ZAC supplies them with all of their kits?
>
>
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
I've used those 45 cents a foot pieces of junk in an ultralight for 500
hours and almost 400 hours in a homebuilt experimental. No problems.
My friend, who has over 36,000 hours flying (he's been a crop duster for
40 years) has built three PA-12 copies and has also used those pieces of
junk fuel lines with no problems (his current PA-12 has 900 hours on
it). Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they don't work.
Randy
601xl/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL
crash
This has really nothing to do with the crash but I would like to point
out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces of junk fuel lines
on their airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand why
anyone would run them and I firmly believe that we are going to start
seeing a lot of problems from these lines. I have run 3/8 aluminum lines
from the tank to the pumps. I think that building your airplane to the
highest of standards is just as important as your preflight.
-----Original Message-----
From: dxj@comcast.net
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 1:47 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I don't know what your problem is David X.
I think you're reading too much into my reply, the same as you did when
reading
into the NTSB report of two ounces recovered. Lighten up.
[Idea] Here's an idea ... since you're not going to be flying Jim's
plane, maybe
you could fill your own bone-dry tank with a known quantity of fuel and
then
drain as much as you possible can (likely what the NTSB did ... but I
don't want
to speculate). How much is left inside the tank? Is it really 1/2 gallon
unusable? Are you planning to try this mid-flight? Be sure to share with
us what
you learn from your experience so we all can learn too. [Rolling Eyes]
I guess I'm turning into one of those pricks I complain about on this
forum.
Maybe now I understand how they turn into pricks ... it's just sheer
frustration
with people who are somehow genetically programmed to argue ... they
just
can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t help it.
It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s like the time this guy was adamant that 3
gallons of paint didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t weigh
anything at all. I re-published technical research from the Dupont web
site just
to see how deeply this guy was genetically programmed to argue. He must
have
poured over the reams of research material and cherry-picked the items
that
would prove himself right, and the rest of us wrong. I have to say he
won the
argument ... but somehow the laws of the universe dictate that 3 gallons
of
paint indeed has mass. The need to be right was pathological and the
state of
denial was unbelievable. Is this the right state of mind to be a pilot?
[Shocked]
I say "genetically programmed", because otherwise it would just be a
plain old
garden variety mental defect ... and it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s not
nice to tell people they are
mentally defective. At least I know I am. [Wink]
Relax, Gig ... oh, and we're all looking forward to that field
experiment of
yours. [Wink]
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76891#76891
http://www.aeroelectric.com/" target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com/" target=_blank>www.kitlog.com
="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/" target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
alle, List Admin.
ction id="">FAQ,
:
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
l?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol"
target="_blank">Check ree AOL Mail and more.
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Running out of gas without leaks |
Hi Guys,
On the subject of running out of gas, today I experienced a left Bing
float-valve overflow while testing the fuel pumps after refueling.
Tapping the Reservoir seated the float valve. Another drip began when I
sampled the gascolator. That was stopped by re-seating the dump valve.
These were dry for 7-months during painting, so it was not a surprise,
and both of these things had happened once before during early
flight-testing. I added a paper fuel filter afterward to keep dirt out
of the Bings and until today, that had not recurred. I suspect a person
could run out of gas quickly if either of these things are not caught
during preflight. A Bing float-valve overflow can begin in flight and
one wouldnt know unless the fuel gages are reliable. The point is, its
possible to use more gas than planned with either of these incidents and
still come up short if youre not very careful.
My VDO float type fuel gages are accurate from nearly full clear down to
empty and get scanned frequently. Even so, the fuel-cans are weighed
each time I fill up to record the gallons. Ive also a wood stick marked
in gallons to verify the tank before flight with or without filling up.
Better to sweat things early than later.
Larry McFarland
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines |
I have all the fuel line for my 801 with auxiliary tanks. I'm not going
to use it. I have installed metal lines and fittings and will use some
flex from the wings to the fuselage. Anyone need it? It's 3/8 i.d.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines
I would like to point out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot
pieces of junk fuel lines on their airplane is just asking for trouble
IMHO I don't understand why anyone would run them
Maybe because ZAC supplies them with all of their kits?
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Alarm. |
[quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Rich
No. It only has one set of contacts. But if it was mounted high in the tank it
would turn off when the fuel level rose above it. It could also be inverted
to turn on when the fuel level reaches it. Not sure what that would be good
for unless you wanted a full tank warning.
Carroll Jernigan
Lenoir City TN
> [b]
Not a full tank warning but to shut off the transfer pump when the tank is full.
I'm thinking of using a momentary switch to pull in a holding relay that energizers
the transfer pump. When the tank is full the float switch opens breaking
the circuit to the holding relay and shutting off the transfer pump.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76968#76968
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
juan it's a great place to fly out of and a new plane with duel stick. I've
logged 3 hr. in it. N101HD joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
>
> All,
>
> On the topic of getting some time in a 601 plane before first flight,
> this weekend I went to West Palm Beach regional in SOuth FLorida to check
> out a flight school that has a 601xl. I plan to fly it for two days of
> instruction, about four hours before going up in mine. It is an AMD plane
> and in good shape. AQny one interested in doing the same and I'll get you
> the number. They charge $80/hr. well worth it to get used to the
> characteristics of the planbe before hopping in.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Mack Kreizenbeck <aprazer@cableone.net>
>>Sent: Nov 25, 2006 1:58 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
>>
>><aprazer@cableone.net>
>>
>>Juan,
>>I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I
>>hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there
>>got any suggestions?
>>The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
>>601 XL QBK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks Randy ,I made a mistake .I should have asked if 3/4 X 3/4 X .125
is acceptable in place of the .093 .I am having some problem using the
archives. Wade
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy L. Thwing
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: .093 Angles
A small point, but Wade asked for 1 x 1 x .093 angle. Isn't the
special made ZA angle 3/4 x 3/4 x .093? Is Wade asking for the special
ZA angle or for something else? I would guess the 1 x 1 is no easier to
find. I've always heard the ZA angle is made for them in special mill
runs. Anyone can order this size, in 1000 lb. lots, of course!
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, las Vegas
Hi Wade,
I got a replacement part from ZAC when I screwed up one of the .093
uprights on my XL. Shirley told me they get the .093 angle in Canada.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:59 AM 11/25/2006, you wrote:
Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For the scratch
builders ,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle material be located .Is it
acceptable to use .0125 in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
> Its always a rule to go the next size up Wade, 0.125
> is the right choice. I have used it for my cap
> strips, however I am going to use .040 flat stock
> and forming it into the 90 degree angles for my
> longerons. Had a great Thanksgiving too RS. <Do not
> archive>
--- Wade Jones <waj@quik.com> wrote:
> Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For
> the scratch builders ,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle
> material be located .Is it acceptable to use .0125
> in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 3D CAD 701 cockpit drawing |
Has anyone completed a 3D CAD drawing file of the panel and cockpit area of
a CH701?? I want design the seating and instrument layout for my 701 to my
liking. The best ways of doing this are either by making a cockpit mockup or
a 3D drawing.
My choice would be the drawing (no room in my garage for the mockup and more
difficult making mockup changes).
I have done 3D CAD drawings before. While they are very time consuming, 3D
CAD drawings are generally worth their effort. I could view the cockpit from
any angle and eye-level, and test instrument placement before cutting the
panel. Before starting this project I thought that I would check if anyone
has already produced a 701 cockpit 3D CAD file. Why reinvent the wheel if
someone out there in Zenith-List land has already done it?
Les
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
Randy I like your idea. Maybe we could schedule one on a regional basis
during SWRFI at Hondo, Tx. I would be glad to assist. I went last year and
only saw one completed 601XL but met a guy who like me was considering
building one. This would be a good way to get interested
builder/flyer/wannabees together here in the southwest.
Regards,
Danny Offill
Van Alstyne, Tx
601XL tail kit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Stout
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
I think I have brought this up before, and I'll bring it up again. The KR
group puts on a fly-in every year. It is completely sponsored by the
build/flyer/wannabees. Check out http://www.krgathering.org/ . They elect a
place and sponsor each year. It's mostly financed by donations and sales of
hats and t-shirts. I think it would be great to have such a gathering of
Zenith folks. They usually have volunteers do different demonstrations. In
their case things like carving foam and laying up fiberglass. For us,
someone could do demos for building spars or bending ribs and such. I think
we have a very nice place to hold one here in San Antonio, but I have too
many issues to be able to sponsor it. Maybe someone else could do the main
sponsoring and I could help. The local EAA chapter has a club house
w/kitchen, and smoker/bbq grill. There's place for camping or stay at the
local hotels.
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
n282rs at earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mack
Kreizenbeck
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL
--> <aprazer@cableone.net>
Juan,
I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I
hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there
got any suggestions? The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho 601 XL QBK
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote:
> Then Can-Zac Aviation Ltd in Ontario Canada
How difficult is it to fly an experimental to Ontario. I mean, what is the paperwork
involved and how different is the airspace etc?
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76981#76981
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines |
That doesn't mean they are the best thing to use. It costs 20 dollars more to do
it the right way.
-----Original Message-----
From: rsq2424@yahoo.com
Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines
I would like to point out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces of
junk fuel lines on their airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand
why anyone would run them
Maybe because ZAC supplies them with all of their kits?
________________________________________________________________________
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash |
Rubber gas line with hose clamps kinda cheap.
-----Original Message-----
From: rpf@wi.rr.com
Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
I've used those 45 cents a foot pieces of junk in an ultralight for 500 hour
s and almost 400 hours in a homebuilt experimental. No problems. My frien
d, who has over 36,000 hours flying (he's been a crop duster for 40 years) h
as built three PA-12 copies and has also used those pieces of junk fuel line
s with no problems (his current PA-12 has 900 hours on it). Just because yo
u don't like them doesn't mean they don't work.
Randy
601xl/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
This has really nothing to do with the crash but I would like to point out t
hat anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces of junk fuel lines on their
airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand why anyone woul
d run them and I firmly believe that we are going to start seeing a lot of p
roblems from these lines. I have run 3/8 aluminum lines from the tank to the
pumps. I think that building your airplane to the highest of standards is j
ust as important as your preflight.
-----Original Message-----
From: dxj@comcast.net
Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 1:47 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I don't know what your problem is David X.
I think you're reading too much into my reply, the same as you did when read
ing
into the NTSB report of two ounces recovered. Lighten up.
[Idea] Here's an idea ... since you're not going to be flying Jim's plane, m
aybe
you could fill your own bone-dry tank with a known quantity of fuel and then
drain as much as you possible can (likely what the NTSB did ... but I don't
want
to speculate). How much is left inside the tank? Is it really 1/2 gallon
unusable? Are you planning to try this mid-flight? Be sure to share with us
what
you learn from your experience so we all can learn too. [Rolling Eyes]
I guess I'm turning into one of those pricks I complain about on this forum.
Maybe now I understand how they turn into pricks ... it's just sheer frustra
tion
with people who are somehow genetically programmed to argue ... they just
can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t help it.
It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s like the time this guy was adamant that 3 gallon
s of paint didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t weigh
anything at all. I re-published technical research from the Dupont web site
just
to see how deeply this guy was genetically programmed to argue. He must have
poured over the reams of research material and cherry-picked the items that
would prove himself right, and the rest of us wrong. I have to say he won th
e
argument ... but somehow the laws of the universe dictate that 3 gallons of
paint indeed has mass. The need to be right was pathological and the state o
f
denial was unbelievable. Is this the right state of mind to be a pilot?
[Shocked]
I say "genetically programmed", because otherwise it would just be a plain o
ld
garden variety mental defect ... and it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s not nice to
tell people they are
mentally defective. At least I know I am. [Wink]
Relax, Gig ... oh, and we're all looking forward to that field experiment of
yours. [Wink]
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76891#76891
http://www.aeroelectric.com/" target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com/" target=_blank>www.kitlog.com
="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/" target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
alle, List Admin.
ction id="">FAQ,
:
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
l?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target="_blank">Check ree
AOL Mail and more.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
________________________________________________________________________
ee AOL Mail and more.
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines |
Upon doing a annual inspection with the pilot using auto fuel at times has shown
deteriorating line the new additives in auto fuel doesn't like rubber.
-----Original Message-----
From: p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines
OK, this is getting interesting.
ZAC does indeed supply rubber hose for fuel line. The implication is that Chris
Heintz approves of this material for this use. We all take as given that Chris,
as the designer of the planes we are building, is a credible authority on
how to build a sound airplane.
So, how does an amateur airplane builder (especially a kit plane builder) resolve
the question of whether the materials the designer specifies are satisfactory
or not?
>From my humble perspective, the flexible hose seems a lot easier to work with
than metal tubing. It also seems less prone to stress fractures and other early
failure problems. Perhaps it has a limited life span, but isn't this why we
do annual condition inspections?
Paul
XL fuselage
I would like to point out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces of
junk fuel lines on their airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand
why anyone would run them
Maybe because ZAC supplies them with all of their kits?
________________________________________________________________________
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines |
Smart there is no reason to go cheap when it comes to fuel lines. Most of the discussion
the past 2 weeks has been about fuel and lack there of and our responsibility
as pilots it just makes no since to use this cheap substitute.
-----Original Message-----
From: pacificpainting@comcast.net
Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines
I have all the fuel line for my 801 with auxiliary tanks. I'm not going to use
it. I have installed metal lines and fittings and will use some flex from the
wings to the fuselage. Anyone need it? It's 3/8 i.d.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines
I would like to point out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces of
junk fuel lines on their airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand
why anyone would run them
Maybe because ZAC supplies them with all of their kits?
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
________________________________________________________________________
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cleaning Duct Tape Residue |
Hello Listers:
If a remedy is posted in the archives I apologize, but I looked and
couldn't find it.
Any suggestions on how to safely clean the residue off of 6061 aluminum
that duct tape leaves, especially when it's been on for several years?
Thanks!
Richard
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue |
mek or lacquer thinner provided it isn't painted.
Do not archive
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jim Pellien lost/ plus 2 others |
Hello Fritz,
We cant also say anything about his flying altitude over terrain or trees without
knowledge,
I have a video of some pilot making an aproach to Sky Bryce Airport. Go it from
internet some time ago
That is a VERY dificult (and beautiful) aproach, Any given airplane has to fly
around a hill very close the the terrain and also over 3 levels of terrain that
almost touch the landing gear to get into the strip, No other way to land there
without flying 3 times real close to the tree tops... Is like and inverted
3 level cake.
Is a video I enjoy very much, has lots of snow in winter.
Jim did the best he could, I feel it, I know it... Lets leave him alone,
Rest In Peace.
Saludos
Gary Gower.,
Big Gee <taffy0687@yahoo.com> wrote: David X,
Congratulations on your cross country flight. By the tone of your emails it sounds
like you have an axe to grind.------ I was not speculating about anything
concerning Jim's accident or the other couple's accident.-------- parts of
both reports are below.
Jim-- didn't get killed because he ran out of fuel !! nor did the design of his
fuel system have anything to do with it. Jim got killed because of what happened
AFTER he ran out of fuel ( no, we don't know why this happened). The NTSB
report says : "It was next observed "very low" over the trees, turning southward.
It then turned towards the east, and the engine "surged," then became
silent. Moments later, the airplane banked 90 degrees to the left and witnesses
heard the sound of impact".
Like I said, this is an emotional topic (your comments reflect that) and hopefully
something can be learned from it (not from speculating). I wasn't there,
and neither were you.
The point I am trying to bring out is that in the flying business, "altitude is
insurance".
1) On November 11, 2006, at 1630 eastern standard time, a Czech Aircraft Works
CH 601 XL RTF, N601VA, was substantially damaged when it impacted trees following
a loss of engine power while maneuvering near Sky Bryce Airport (VG18), Basye,
Virginia. The certificated private pilot was fatally injured. Visual meteorological
conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the local personal
flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
1) According to witness statements, the pilot stated that he was going to fly for
"about an hour." The airplane was seen "circling" north of the airport, and
then to descend. It was next observed "very low" over the trees, turning southward.
It then turned towards the east, and the engine "surged," then became silent.
Moments later, the airplane banked 90 degrees to the left and witnesses
heard the sound of impact
The airplane which had an explosion in flight is referenced below in another
NTSB report. There was nothing in my original post that I was speculating on,
as a matter of fact I mentioned we should not be doing that (speculating). I
do take offence to the tone of your letter, but will consider the source.--------
I did think that maybe one of the reasons for this site is to make flying
and building safer.
2)On November 4, 2006, about 1139 Pacific standard time, an Aircraft Manufacturing
& Development Co., CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, experienced an in-flight breakup
while cruising approximately 8 nautical miles south of Yuba City, California.
The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot, who was a co-owner of the airplane,
and a passenger were fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed,
and no flight plan had been filed. The flight was performed under the
provisions of 14 CFR Part 91, and it originated from Lincoln, California, about
1129.
A ground-based witness reported hearing the airplane as it approached his location.
The witness stated that the airplane's engine was "missing" and its power
was "on and off." Seconds later the witness heard the sound of an explosion
and observed the center section of the airplane falling straight down. All of
the airplane's structural components were located in adjacent open fields during
the National Transportation Safety Board's on-scene investigation. The wreckage
consisted of the following components, which were separated from each other:
left wing (without aileron); right wing (with aileron); main landing gear
assembly; cockpit, engine with attached propeller blades; aileron (left wing);
and empennage. There was no evidence of oil spray on any of the components, and
there was no evidence of fire.
The wreckage has been recovered and detailed airframe and engine examinations
are ongoing.
I think it is a shame that when we go to the NTSB accident page, type in "601"
it shows, the latest two accidents resulted in three "fatals". If nothing
is learned from this, the list will only get longer.
NOT SPECULATING--- Fritz
----- Original Message ----
From: David X <dxj@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 3:05:46 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ don't second guess
taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> We don't know if Jim used poor preflight procedures, or had some type of leak
which caused fuel to leak from the tanks while he was flying.----- Either way,
he ran out of fuel, and was at an unsafe altitude.
taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> The second question is: Did Jim fly the airplane to the very last minute, or
did he panic and stall the airplane while close to the ground.
taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Yet, the AMD 601 with the inflight explosion, the airplane came apart in flight,
a man and his wife was killed isn't even mentioned here
For someone chiding others for speculating, you're sure doing a lot of it yourself.
There is no mention of an in-flight explosion in the NTSB report. No mention
of an unsafe altitude. No mention of panic. No leak, no tank puncture, no
poor preflight ... nothing like this mentioned. They're your own fabrications.
taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> I think the informaion from those two authors and the knowledge available form
William Wynne (directly, written and video) can keep a lot of folks out of
trouble.
Oh yeah ... I remember that chapter in Stick and Rudder about speculating on plane
crashes while chiding others for doing the same. You must have read that chapter
over and over again.
Do us all a favor and zip it already with the speculation. Where do you get off?
Yeah, you got flamed ... and you deserved it.
You're wrong about "damned if you don't". DON'T!
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------------------------------
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cleaning Duct Tape Residue |
I have had good luck using Goof-Off. If the residue is particularly
stubborn you can can use a paper towl to keep the solvent in contact
with
the mark for 5-10 minutes. It usually comes off very easily.
Graham Kirby
601HD.
Hello Listers:
If a remedy is posted in the archives I apologize, but I looked and
couldn't
find it.
Any suggestions on how to safely clean the residue off of 6061 aluminum
that
duct tape leaves, especially when it's been on for several years?
Thanks!
Richard
Message 52
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines |
In our 701 all the hoses are easy to check and change, (even the ones from the
wing tanks) we plan to change all of them every year, with the yearly mantainance
we haved planned.
No big deal and we are shure that they are always in good chape... The tubes will
be there for years and who will think that they will never crack and spill
gasoline?
Building, flying, preflying and doing mantainace work is all part of the fun of
flying.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
OK, this is getting interesting.
ZAC does indeed supply rubber hose for fuel line. The implication is that Chris
Heintz approves of this material for this use. We all take as given that Chris,
as the designer of the planes we are building, is a credible authority on
how to build a sound airplane.
So, how does an amateur airplane builder (especially a kit plane builder) resolve
the question of whether the materials the designer specifies are satisfactory
or not?
From my humble perspective, the flexible hose seems a lot easier to work with
than metal tubing. It also seems less prone to stress fractures and other early
failure problems. Perhaps it has a limited life span, but isn't this why
we do annual condition inspections?
Paul
XL fuselage
I would like to point out that anyone that puts those 45 cent a foot pieces
of junk fuel lines on their airplane is just asking for trouble IMHO I don't understand
why anyone would run them
Maybe because ZAC supplies them with all of their kits?
---------------------------------
Message 53
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue |
MessageWe used mayonnaise, covered with a damp cloth towel overnight.
Two applications required but no scratches or harm noted. Been on 2 plus
years & in sunlight (dumb idea that), Cleaned area with acetone. Details
in archives (mine) Do Not Archive KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Kirby
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue
I have had good luck using Goof-Off. If the residue is particularly
stubborn you can can use a paper towl to keep the solvent in contact
with the mark for 5-10 minutes. It usually comes off very easily.
Graham Kirby
601HD.
Hello Listers:
If a remedy is posted in the archives I apologize, but I looked and
couldn't find it.
Any suggestions on how to safely clean the residue off of 6061
aluminum that duct tape leaves, especially when it's been on for several
years? Thanks!
Richard
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|