---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/26/06: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 2. 12:12 AM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 3. 04:20 AM - Re: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines (Trainnut01@aol.com) 4. 05:37 AM - Re: .093 Angles (Wade Jones) 5. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Carlos Sa) 6. 07:37 AM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (JOHN STARN) 7. 08:12 AM - Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Randy L. Thwing) 8. 08:23 AM - Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (OK2AV8@aol.com) 9. 08:41 AM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Steve Hulland) 10. 09:12 AM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Randy L. Thwing) 11. 09:39 AM - Re: Torquing GSC Propeller Bolts (John M. Goodings) 12. 10:07 AM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Steve Hulland) 13. 10:38 AM - Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Randy Stout) 14. 10:38 AM - Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Randy Stout) 15. 10:50 AM - Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Craig Payne) 16. 11:35 AM - Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Terry Turnquist) 17. 11:54 AM - Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Juan Vega) 18. 11:57 AM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Juan Vega) 19. 12:00 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Juan Vega) 20. 01:10 PM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (JOHN STARN) 21. 01:39 PM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (cleonard52@comcast.net) 22. 02:38 PM - Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (n801bh@netzero.com) 23. 04:40 PM - Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Gig Giacona) 24. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Craig Payne) 25. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! (Southern Reflections) 26. 05:22 PM - Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (lwhitlow) 27. 05:49 PM - PROP CHOICES (Robin Bellach) 28. 06:03 PM - Re: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue (Edward Moody II) 29. 06:09 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Bryan Martin) 30. 06:37 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Edward Moody II) 31. 07:08 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Paul Mulwitz) 32. 07:08 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (lwhitlow) 33. 07:40 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Edward Moody II) 34. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Edward Moody II) 35. 08:11 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Paul Mulwitz) 36. 08:18 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Jim and Lucy) 37. 08:19 PM - Re: 3D CAD 701 cockpit drawing (ROBERT SCEPPA) 38. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question (Craig Payne) 39. 09:24 PM - Jab 3300/601XL Ignition switch-regulator-solenoid wiring (Mike) 40. 09:31 PM - Re: 3D CAD 701 cockpit drawing (Les Goldner) 41. 09:54 PM - Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL (Gary Gower) 42. 11:13 PM - Re: PROP CHOICES (Brandon Tucker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:49 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue That sounds like a home remedy if I ever heard one LOL Where or how did you ever think of that? I wipe down all my parts before I paint them with MEK and it takes off everything and it don't attract bugs either if anything they will stay well clear of MEK. do not archive In a message dated 11/26/2006 1:50:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, jhstarn@verizon.net writes: We used mayonnaise, covered with a damp cloth towel overnight. Two applications required but no scratches or harm noted. Been on 2 plus years & in sunlight (dumb idea that), Cleaned area with acetone. Details in archives (mine) Do Not Archive KABONG ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:11 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines Really I don't have a problem with the hoses....even though I do use metal I was just trying to start a new flame to get us off the one we have been on for the past week. I was gonna start in about air compressors or scotch bright pads but that is sooooo played out. I got one..... aviation fuel 100 LL is red now. In a message dated 11/26/2006 1:44:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, ggower_99@yahoo.com writes: In our 701 all the hoses are easy to check and change, (even the ones from the wing tanks) we plan to change all of them every year, with the yearly mantainance we haved planned. No big deal and we are shure that they are always in good chape... The tubes will be there for years and who will think that they will never crack and spill gasoline? Building, flying, preflying and doing mantainace work is all part of the fun of flying. Saludos Gary Gower. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:40 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [CH601XL] Re: Flexible fuel lines Paul My 601XL wing kit not only came with the flexible hoses, it has barb fittings and clamps to install them. However they won't be used on my aircraft. Carroll do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:25 AM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: .093 Angles Thanks Robert , Wade Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT SCEPPA" Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: .093 Angles > >> Its always a rule to go the next size up Wade, 0.125 >> is the right choice. I have used it for my cap >> strips, however I am going to use .040 flat stock >> and forming it into the 90 degree angles for my >> longerons. Had a great Thanksgiving too RS. > archive> > --- Wade Jones wrote: > >> Hello group ,hope all had a good Thanksgiving .For >> the scratch builders ,where can 1"X1"X.093 angle >> material be located .Is it acceptable to use .0125 >> in place of the .093 . Thanks Wade > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:09 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL There is some information here (Canada Border Service Agency): http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel/canpass/privateair-e.html There were some articles in Flying, Private Pilot and Kitplanes that describe the the process. Try Google too. Other listers might have first hand experience... Carlos CH601-HD, plans Monteal, Canada On 25/11/06, David X wrote: > > > > zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > > Then Can-Zac Aviation Ltd in Ontario Canada > > > How difficult is it to fly an experimental to Ontario. I mean, what is the > paperwork involved and how different is the airspace etc? > > -------- > Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76981#76981 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:12 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue Idea came from an A&P, IA, FBO owner that operated here at APV. The glue softened up and wiped off. Dusty had only been in the airplane business for 40 years or some such number, had every tool & method you can imagine. KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 12:05 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue That sounds like a home remedy if I ever heard one LOL Where or how did you ever think of that? I wipe down all my parts before I paint them with MEK and it takes off everything and it don't attract bugs either if anything they will stay well clear of MEK. do not archive In a message dated 11/26/2006 1:50:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, jhstarn@verizon.net writes: We used mayonnaise, covered with a damp cloth towel overnight. Two applications required but no scratches or harm noted. Been on 2 plus years & in sunlight (dumb idea that), Cleaned area with acetone. Details in archives (mine) Do Not Archive KABONG ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:03 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue MessageI used to try to get "Goof-Off" to clean airplane parts, but then he joined the Navy and I have to do all of it myself now! yuk, yuk. But, couldn't be prouder, he just made E7! Regards and Sorry, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas Do Not Archive I have had good luck using Goof-Off. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:01 AM PST US From: OK2AV8@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! Listers, After lurking here for 5 years or so, its time to post my 1st flight! I have a stock Zodiac XL with a Jabiru 3300 Sensenich fixed-pitch two blade wood propeller Model W64ZK-49 (64 in diam. X 49 in Pitch) with fiberglass spinner. I have the hingeless flex ailerons with electric pitch and roll tri m. I have (4) 12 gallon wing tanks with a 5 way selector valve (Andair) and a flo or mounted fuel pump in addition to the engine mounted pump. The only variation from plans I made was to put screws and plate nuts on the upper forward skin for access behind the instrument panel. I have an all electric panel with a standard =9C6-pack=9D flight gages, Garmin GPS/COMM, Garmin tran sponder and standard VDO engine gages. The plane is unpainted but I will do some painting later leaving large areas polished. I=99m a 240 hour VFR only private pilot with most of my time in Cessna 152/172's. I=99m also an aerospace engineer at Boein g. If you have the new Zenith DVD, you saw me on it talking. You also saw my airplane =99s nose gear in the aircraft description section. All speeds are IAS MPH uncalibrated. N360TM made its first flight Wednesday Nov 22 at Creve Coeur Airport underneath the Class B airspace of Lambert/St. Louis Airport. I stayed in th e pattern but my radio faded out on the second circuit but not before hearing my groun d crew saying something. Since I told them to only call if they saw something, I landed without flaps on the next circuit. I was venting a little fuel prompting them to call. Roger at Zenith confirmed their XL does the same thi ng when it =99s full and banking - no big deal. We found a loose headphone jack responsible for the faded radio signal. A little later I took 360TM up again for another 35 minute flight going around the pattern doing 8 touch and go's. All landings were smooth and comfortable. She lifts off at 60 mph or so and acce lerates to 100 very quickly. It climbs very briskly (>1000 fpm) and I get to pattern altitude before turning crosswind. I pull the throttle back on downwind to k eep it under 120 mph. It doesn't like to slow down but 80 mph is the upper limit for flaps. I have been flying the base and first part of final at 80 mph decelerating to 75 then 70 or so at touchdown. The plane lands very nicely. I did currency training in an Evector SportStar that is available at St Charles Mu ni near here. The training =93 including 100 landings at Creve Coeur real ly paid off! I highly recommend that airplane for familiarization with the light, qu ick characteristics of the 601XL. I also flew with Rodger & Nick at Mexico a cou ple of times =93 also highly recommended. We went back Thursday (Thanksgiving morning!) and flew for another .6 hour doing more pattern work. One small glitch was after the first takeoff of the day the first canopy latch let loose (there are two latches for redundancy) and the canopy opened about 1/2 inch. Not much but the airflow through the cockp it was noticeable. I came around and landed normally and relatched the canopy all the way down. Took off again and flew touch and goes for 30 minutes. I played around with various speeds, flap settings getting used to landing a l ittle slower. I also performed a "missed approach" where I aborted the landing jus t before touching down. I wanted to see how it felt to punch the throttle with the flaps still down and accelerate while retracting the flaps. No problem. I also flew a short pattern simulating an engine out. Again, no problem. Friday, I flew for an hour venturing away from the pattern to the local practice area. Being under the Class B limits me to less than 2000 ft (1,500 AGL) so I don=99t go too far yet. I nibbled at the stall with flaps up and down. At 44 mph I get a good rumble from the tail with the flaps down. Flaps up is cleaner at 47 or 48 mph. I did not stall the airplane. Full throttle, I saw greater than 142 mph. I was also able to trim it up with both the small elevator tri m (lots of nose up) and the aileron trim (very effective, not much needed). Saturday, I flew twice going north out from under the airspace restrictions. Took her up to 4500 ft. Steep turns, high speed (155 mph in a shallow dive) and low speed trials. Did a few time to climb checks =93 more data lat er. I=99m taking today off to stop, take a breath, regroup, and get organi zed for the remaining flight test tasks. The plane flies great! I haven=99t do ne a bad landing yet! I=99ve got that silly grin you all have heard about. Laug hing out loud while flying it is not uncommon. I just have to remember to not do it w hile transmitting! For more info on my project, go to my website =93 www.flyingwithms.com . It needs updating but I=99m too busy flying! Tim Garrett N360TM Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:18 AM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue Randy, Do Not Archive Does the Navy have a new rank - E7? or did your "Goof-off" make Chief. If he/she is now a Chief, you should be very proud. E7 is simply a pay grade for human resources purposes! Ha! -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:30 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue Thanks Steve, Yes, E7 is CPO, Chief Petty Officer. Out of Blues and into Khakis. To me, he looks the same as he did when he was 12, so when I picture him in khakis, a Chief, Leader of Men, it gives me a tickle every time. Can't say it enough, couldn't be prouder! Attached is a pic of Son Jeremy in Iceland a couple of years ago. Standing next to him is none other than our fellow Zenith Lister/701 builder; Johann. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hulland To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue Randy, Do Not Archive Does the Navy have a new rank - E7? or did your "Goof-off" make Chief. If he/she is now a Chief, you should be very proud. E7 is simply a pay grade for human resources purposes! Ha! -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:15 AM PST US From: "John M. Goodings" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Torquing GSC Propeller Bolts Our CH601HD Zodiac with a Rotax 912S 100 HP engine has a 68-inch, 3-blade GSC wooden prop. In our installation, there is a prop flange extension. The prop is held on by 6 1/4-inch bolts (3 through the aluminum blade roots), and by 6 5/16-inch bolts onto the flange extension. GSC Systems says use 100 inch pounds of torque for the 1/4 inch bolts, and 140 for the 5/16; these values are critical. Normally, with a washer under both the head and the nut, one holds the bolt head stationary, and torques the nylon lock nut; these nyloks are the preferred nuts recommended by GSC. Because of the design of the prop flange extension, it is not possible to get the torque wrench onto the nuts. Thus, one holds the nut stationary, and torques the bolt head. THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING. My son Peter (co-builder of our aircraft, and a professional mechanical engineer) knows from practical experience that putting the torque wrench on the bolt head can undertorque the nut by possibly 20-30%, or even more. It stands to reason: the bolt shaft (or grip) inevitably experiences some friction in passing through the parts being bolted together on the way to the nut. There is a little part called a "crow's foot" to overcome this difficulty, which goes over the nut, extends radially outward for about an inch, and has a square hole for attachment of the torque wrench. It happened that I had always torqued the prop bolts on our aircraft. In setting out to retorque the bolts yesterday because the weather is now turning cold, Peter realized right away that there was a problem. I had never used a crow's foot (I did not know of their existence!). I'm guessing that many others using this Rotax/GSC prop installation were also unaware of this problem. What have others done about this? Were they aware of the problem? John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Waterloo ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:33 AM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue Randy, Yep, you should be proud. I know and knew lots of Chief Petty Officer's. Worked with them while teaching and/or being taught at Air Traffic Control Schools, worked on ships and many shore stations with them. Overall, they are a great group of men and do well as leaders, managers and administrators - to say nothing of their technical skills. Nice picture of Chief Jeremy Thwing. Now talk him into Warrant Officer or Limited Duty Officer - that is the route I took in the Corps after making Gunnery Sergeant. Retired as an LDO Capt 23+ years ago with more than 22 years service -really enjoy the extra income, medical, etc. I have a CH 600 with a tailwheel. Flying a Champ right now with an instructor (owner will not rent solo) to get re-comfortable with tailwheel before I fly the 600 for the first time - soon I hope! Do Not Archive -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:36 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! Wow! You did that while fighting MS. Great Job! Keep up the fight. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 n282rs at earthlink.net do not archive For more info on my project, go to my website - www.flyingwithms.com . It needs updating but I'm too busy flying! Tim Garrett N360TM Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:43 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! Wow! You did that while fighting MS. Great Job! Keep up the fight. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 n282rs at earthlink.net do not archive For more info on my project, go to my website - www.flyingwithms.com . It needs updating but I'm too busy flying! Tim Garrett N360TM Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:45 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! Congratulations! >> I did currency training in an Evector SportStar that is available at St Charles Muni near here. I soloed in one of the Evector SportStars at St. Charles Flying Service. Goods folks and a nice plane (except when the canopy popped open in flight). The SportStar is a good match to the XL but like you I'll have to adapt to the change from a Rotax 912 to the Jabiru 3300. Training in SportStars is a little more available than in XLs: Washington state, California (north, middle and south), Colorado, Minnesota, Missouri, Indiana, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania. See http://www.evektoramerica.com/wheretofly.html for details. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:33 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! Tim, Congratulations! Terry Turnquist 601XL-Plans St. Peters, MO Do Not Archive OK2AV8@aol.com wrote: Listers, After lurking here for 5 years or so, its time to post my 1st flight! I have a stock Zodiac XL with a Jabiru 3300 Sensenich fixed-pitch two blade wood propeller Model W64ZK-49 (64 in diam. X 49 in Pitch) with fiberglass spinner. I have the hingeless flex ailerons with electric pitch and roll trim. I have (4) 12 gallon wing tanks with a 5 way selector valve (Andair) and a floor mounted fuel pump in addition to the engine mounted pump. The only variation from plans I made was to put screws and plate nuts on the upper forward skin for access behind the instrument panel. I have an all electric panel with a standard 6-pack flight gages, Garmin GPS/COMM, Garmin transponder and standard VDO engine gages. The plane is unpainted but I will do some painting later leaving large areas polished. Im a 240 hour VFR only private pilot with most of my time in Cessna 152/172's. Im also an aerospace engineer at Boeing. If you have the new Zenith DVD, you saw me on it talking. You also saw my airplanes nose gear in the aircraft description section. All speeds are IAS MPH uncalibrated. N360TM made its first flight Wednesday Nov 22 at Creve Coeur Airport underneath the Class B airspace of Lambert/St. Louis Airport. I stayed in the pattern but my radio faded out on the second circuit but not before hearing my ground crew saying something. Since I told them to only call if they saw something, I landed without flaps on the next circuit. I was venting a little fuel prompting them to call. Roger at Zenith confirmed their XL does the same thing when its full and banking - no big deal. We found a loose headphone jack responsible for the faded radio signal. A little later I took 360TM up again for another 35 minute flight going around the pattern doing 8 touch and go's. All landings were smooth and comfortable. She lifts off at 60 mph or so and accelerates to 100 very quickly. It climbs very briskly (>1000 fpm) and I get to pattern altitude before turning crosswind. I pull the throttle back on downwind to keep it under 120 mph. It doesn't like to slow down but 80 mph is the upper limit for flaps. I have been flying the base and first part of final at 80 mph decelerating to 75 then 70 or so at touchdown. The plane lands very nicely. I did currency training in an Evector SportStar that is available at St Charles Muni near here. The training including 100 landings at Creve Coeur really paid off! I highly recommend that airplane for familiarization with the light, quick characteristics of the 601XL. I also flew with Rodger & Nick at Mexico a couple of times also highly recommended. We went back Thursday (Thanksgiving morning!) and flew for another .6 hour doing more pattern work. One small glitch was after the first takeoff of the day the first canopy latch let loose (there are two latches for redundancy) and the canopy opened about 1/2 inch. Not much but the airflow through the cockpit was noticeable. I came around and landed normally and relatched the canopy all the way down. Took off again and flew touch and goes for 30 minutes. I played around with various speeds, flap settings getting used to landing a little slower. I also performed a "missed approach" where I aborted the landing just before touching down. I wanted to see how it felt to punch the throttle with the flaps still down and accelerate while retracting the flaps. No problem. I also flew a short pattern simulating an engine out. Again, no problem. Friday, I flew for an hour venturing away from the pattern to the local practice area. Being under the Class B limits me to less than 2000 ft (1,500 AGL) so I dont go too far yet. I nibbled at the stall with flaps up and down. At 44 mph I get a good rumble from the tail with the flaps down. Flaps up is cleaner at 47 or 48 mph. I did not stall the airplane. Full throttle, I saw greater than 142 mph. I was also able to trim it up with both the small elevator trim (lots of nose up) and the aileron trim (very effective, not much needed). Saturday, I flew twice going north out from under the airspace restrictions. Took her up to 4500 ft. Steep turns, high speed (155 mph in a shallow dive) and low speed trials. Did a few time to climb checks more data later. Im taking today off to stop, take a breath, regroup, and get organized for the remaining flight test tasks. The plane flies great! I havent done a bad landing yet! Ive got that silly grin you all have heard about. Laughing out loud while flying it is not uncommon. I just have to remember to not do it while transmitting! For more info on my project, go to my website www.flyingwithms.com. It needs updating but Im too busy flying! Tim Garrett N360TM Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:11 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! congrads! I have been on your website, and your site is what instilled me to buy the kit! Now it is giving me the kick in the tail to finish. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: OK2AV8@aol.com >Sent: Nov 26, 2006 11:21 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! > >Listers, > >After lurking here for 5 years or so, its time to post my 1st flight! > > I have a stock Zodiac XL with a Jabiru 3300 Sensenich fixed-pitch two blade >wood propeller Model W64ZK-49 (64 in diam. X 49 in Pitch) with fiberglass >spinner. I have the hingeless flex ailerons with electric pitch and roll trim. I >have (4) 12 gallon wing tanks with a 5 way selector valve (Andair) and a floor >mounted fuel pump in addition to the engine mounted pump. The only variation >from plans I made was to put screws and plate nuts on the upper forward skin >for access behind the instrument panel. I have an all electric panel with a >standard ?6-pack? flight gages, Garmin GPS/COMM, Garmin transponder and standard >VDO engine gages. The plane is unpainted but I will do some painting later >leaving large areas polished. I?m a 240 hour VFR only private pilot with most of >my time in Cessna 152/172's. I?m also an aerospace engineer at Boeing. If you >have the new Zenith DVD, you saw me on it talking. You also saw my airplane?s >nose gear in the aircraft description section. > >All speeds are IAS MPH uncalibrated. > >N360TM made its first flight Wednesday Nov 22 at Creve Coeur Airport >underneath the Class B airspace of Lambert/St. Louis Airport. I stayed in the pattern >but my radio faded out on the second circuit but not before hearing my ground >crew saying something. Since I told them to only call if they saw something, I >landed without flaps on the next circuit. I was venting a little fuel >prompting them to call. Roger at Zenith confirmed their XL does the same thing when it >?s full and banking - no big deal. We found a loose headphone jack >responsible for the faded radio signal. A little later I took 360TM up again for another >35 minute flight going around the pattern doing 8 touch and go's. All >landings were smooth and comfortable. She lifts off at 60 mph or so and accelerates >to 100 very quickly. It climbs very briskly (>1000 fpm) and I get to pattern >altitude before turning crosswind. I pull the throttle back on downwind to keep >it under 120 mph. It doesn't like to slow down but 80 mph is the upper limit >for flaps. I have been flying the base and first part of final at 80 mph >decelerating to 75 then 70 or so at touchdown. The plane lands very nicely. I did >currency training in an Evector SportStar that is available at St Charles Muni >near here. The training ? including 100 landings at Creve Coeur really paid >off! I highly recommend that airplane for familiarization with the light, quick >characteristics of the 601XL. I also flew with Rodger & Nick at Mexico a couple >of times ? also highly recommended. > >We went back Thursday (Thanksgiving morning!) and flew for another .6 hour >doing more pattern work. One small glitch was after the first takeoff of the >day the first canopy latch let loose (there are two latches for redundancy) and >the canopy opened about 1/2 inch. Not much but the airflow through the cockpit >was noticeable. I came around and landed normally and relatched the canopy >all the way down. Took off again and flew touch and goes for 30 minutes. I >played around with various speeds, flap settings getting used to landing a little >slower. I also performed a "missed approach" where I aborted the landing just >before touching down. I wanted to see how it felt to punch the throttle with >the flaps still down and accelerate while retracting the flaps. No problem. I >also flew a short pattern simulating an engine out. Again, no problem. > >Friday, I flew for an hour venturing away from the pattern to the local >practice area. Being under the Class B limits me to less than 2000 ft (1,500 AGL) >so I don?t go too far yet. I nibbled at the stall with flaps up and down. At 44 >mph I get a good rumble from the tail with the flaps down. Flaps up is >cleaner at 47 or 48 mph. I did not stall the airplane. Full throttle, I saw greater >than 142 mph. I was also able to trim it up with both the small elevator trim >(lots of nose up) and the aileron trim (very effective, not much needed). > >Saturday, I flew twice going north out from under the airspace restrictions. >Took her up to 4500 ft. Steep turns, high speed (155 mph in a shallow dive) >and low speed trials. Did a few time to climb checks ? more data later. > >I?m taking today off to stop, take a breath, regroup, and get organized for >the remaining flight test tasks. The plane flies great! I haven?t done a bad >landing yet! I?ve got that silly grin you all have heard about. Laughing out >loud while flying it is not uncommon. I just have to remember to not do it while >transmitting! > >For more info on my project, go to my website ? www.flyingwithms.com. It >needs updating but I?m too busy flying! > >Tim Garrett >N360TM >Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:29 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue its better than MEK, not cancerous and great to use afterward for sandwiches. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: JOHN STARN >Sent: Nov 26, 2006 1:49 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue > >MessageWe used mayonnaise, covered with a damp cloth towel overnight. Two applications required but no scratches or harm noted. Been on 2 plus years & in sunlight (dumb idea that), Cleaned area with acetone. Details in archives (mine) Do Not Archive KABONG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Graham Kirby > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:12 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue > > > I have had good luck using Goof-Off. If the residue is particularly stubborn you can can use a paper towl to keep the solvent in contact with the mark for 5-10 minutes. It usually comes off very easily. > > Graham Kirby > 601HD. > > Hello Listers: > > If a remedy is posted in the archives I apologize, but I looked and couldn't find it. > > Any suggestions on how to safely clean the residue off of 6061 aluminum that duct tape leaves, especially when it's been on for several years? Thanks! > Richard > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:38 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL I agree, its a really GA friendly airport, close tothe beach!. Tom the FBO owners is a nice guy. JUan -----Original Message----- >From: Southern Reflections >Sent: Nov 25, 2006 9:47 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL > > > juan it's a great place to fly out of and a new plane with duel stick. I've >logged 3 hr. in it. N101HD joe >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Juan Vega" >To: >Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:35 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL > > >> >> All, >> >> On the topic of getting some time in a 601 plane before first flight, >> this weekend I went to West Palm Beach regional in SOuth FLorida to check >> out a flight school that has a 601xl. I plan to fly it for two days of >> instruction, about four hours before going up in mine. It is an AMD plane >> and in good shape. AQny one interested in doing the same and I'll get you >> the number. They charge $80/hr. well worth it to get used to the >> characteristics of the planbe before hopping in. >> >> Juan >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Mack Kreizenbeck >>>Sent: Nov 25, 2006 1:58 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL >>> >>> >>> >>>Juan, >>>I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I >>>hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there >>>got any suggestions? >>>The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho >>>601 XL QBK >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:38 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue I guess it would make it stick to your ribs... 8*) KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue > > its better than MEK, not cancerous and great to use afterward for > sandwiches. > > Juan ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:48 PM PST US From: cleonard52@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue LAQUER THINNERWILLTAKE IT OFF, SO WILL ACETONE. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Richard E. Swan" Hello Listers: If a remedy is posted in the archives I apologize, but I looked and couldn't find it. Any suggestions on how to safely clean the residue off of 6061 aluminum that duct tape leaves, especially when it's been on for several years? Thanks! Richard
LAQUER THINNERWILLTAKE IT OFF, SO WILL ACETONE.
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard E. Swan" <richardswan@conwaycorp.net>
Hello Listers:
 
If a remedy is posted in the archives I apologize, but I looked and couldn't find it.
 
Any suggestions on how to safely clean the residue off of 6061 aluminum that duct tape leaves, especially when it's been on for several years?  Thanks!
Richard
________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:32 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! Congrats to you Tim... It will take several weeks to get that big grin o ff your face too.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- OK2AV8@aol.com wrote: Listers, After lurking here for 5 years or so, its time to post my 1st flight! I have a stock Zodiac XL with a Jabiru 3300 Sensenich fixed-pitch two b lade wood propeller Model W64ZK-49 (64 in diam. X 49 in Pitch) with fibe rglass spinner. I have the hingeless flex ailerons with electric pitch a nd roll trim. I have (4) 12 gallon wing tanks with a 5 way selector valv e (Andair) and a floor mounted fuel pump in addition to the engine mount ed pump. The only variation from plans I made was to put screws and plat e nuts on the upper forward skin for access behind the instrument panel. I have an all electric panel with a standard =9C6-pack=9D f light gages, Garmin GPS/COMM, Garmin transponder and standard VDO engine gages. The plane is unpainted but I will do some painting later leaving large areas polished. I=99m a 240 hour VFR only private pilot wit h most of my time in Cessna 152/172's. I=99m also an aerospace eng ineer at Boeing. If you have the new Zenith DVD, you saw me on it talkin g. You also saw my airplane=99s nose gear in the aircraft descript ion section. All speeds are IAS MPH uncalibrated. N360TM made its first flight Wednesday Nov 22 at Creve Coeu r Airport underneath the Class B airspace of Lambert/St. Louis Airport. I stayed in the pattern but my radio faded out on the second circuit but not before hearing my ground crew saying something. Since I told them t o only call if they saw something, I landed without flaps on the next ci rcuit. I was venting a little fuel prompting them to call. Roger at Zeni th confirmed their XL does the same thing when it=99s full and ban king - no big deal. We found a loose headphone jack responsible for the faded radio signal. A little later I took 360TM up again for another 35 minute flight going around the pattern doing 8 touch and go's. All landi ngs were smooth and comfortable. She lifts off at 60 mph or so and accel erates to 100 very quickly. It climbs very briskly (>1000 fpm) and I get to pattern altitude before turning crosswind. I pull the throttle back on downwind to keep it under 120 mph. It doesn't like to slow down but 8 0 mph is the upper limit for flaps. I have been flying the base and firs t part of final at 80 mph decelerating to 75 then 70 or so at touchdown. The plane lands very nicely. I did currency training in an Evector Spor tStar that is available at St Charles Muni near here. The training =93 including 100 landings at Creve Coeur really paid off! I highly reco mmend that airplane for familiarization with the light, quick characteri stics of the 601XL. I also flew with Rodger & Nick at Mexico a couple of times =93 also highly recommended. We went back Thursday (Thanksgiving morning!) and flew for another .6 h our doing more pattern work. One small glitch was after the first takeof f of the day the first canopy latch let loose (there are two latches for redundancy) and the canopy opened about 1/2 inch. Not much but the airf low through the cockpit was noticeable. I came around and landed normall y and relatched the canopy all the way down. Took off again and flew tou ch and goes for 30 minutes. I played around with various speeds, flap se ttings getting used to landing a little slower. I also performed a "miss ed approach" where I aborted the landing just before touching down. I wa nted to see how it felt to punch the throttle with the flaps still down and accelerate while retracting the flaps. No problem. I also flew a sho rt pattern simulating an engine out. Again, no problem. Friday, I flew for an hour venturing away from the pattern to the local practice area. Being under the Class B limits me to less than 2000 ft (1 ,500 AGL) so I don=99t go too far yet. I nibbled at the stall with flaps up and down. At 44 mph I get a good rumble from the tail with the flaps down. Flaps up is cleaner at 47 or 48 mph. I did not stall the ai rplane. Full throttle, I saw greater than 142 mph. I was also able to tr im it up with both the small elevator trim (lots of nose up) and the ail eron trim (very effective, not much needed). Saturday, I flew twice going north out from under the airspace restricti ons. Took her up to 4500 ft. Steep turns, high speed (155 mph in a shall ow dive) and low speed trials. Did a few time to climb checks =93 more data later. I=99m taking today off to stop, take a breath, regroup, and get or ganized for the remaining flight test tasks. The plane flies great! I ha ven=99t done a bad landing yet! I=99ve got that silly grin y ou all have heard about. Laughing out loud while flying it is not uncomm on. I just have to remember to not do it while transmitting! For more info on my project, go to my website =93 www.flyingwithms .com. It needs updating but I=99m too busy flying! Tim Garrett N360TM Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300 ======================== ======================== ======================== ===============

Congrats to you Tim... It will take several weeks to get that b ig grin off your face too..

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- OK2AV8@aol.com wrote:

Listers,

 

After lurking here for 5 years or so, its time to post my 1st flight!

 

 I have a stock Zodiac XL with a Jab iru 3300 Sensenich fixed-pitch two blade wood propeller Model W64ZK-49 ( 64 in diam. X 49 in Pitch) with fiberglass spinner. I have the hingeless flex ailerons with electric pitch and roll trim. I have (4) 12 gallon w ing tanks with a 5 way selector valve (Andair) and a floor mounted fuel pump in addition to the engine mounted pump. The only variation from pla ns I made was to put screws and plate nuts on the upper forward skin for access behind the instrument panel. I have an all electric panel with a standard =9C6-pack=9D flight gages, Garmin GPS/COMM, Garmin transponder and standard VDO engine gages. The plane is unpainted but I will do some painting later leaving large areas polished. I=99m a 240 hour VFR only private pilot with most of my time in Cessna 152/172' s. I=99m also an aerospace engineer at Boeing. If you have the new Zenith DVD, you saw me on it talking. You also saw my airplane=99 s nose gear in the aircraft description section.

 

All speeds are IAS MPH uncalibrated.

 

N360TM made its first flight Wednesday No v 22 at Creve Coeur Airport underneath the Class B airspace of Lambert/St. Louis Airport. I s tayed in the pattern but my radio faded out on the second circuit but no t before hearing my ground crew saying something. Since I told them to o nly call if they saw something, I landed without flaps on the next circu it. I was venting a little fuel prompting them to call. Roger at Zenith confirmed their XL does the same thing when it=99s full and bankin g - no big deal. We found a loose headphone jack responsible for the fad ed radio signal. A little later I took 360TM up again for another 35 min ute flight going around the pattern doing 8 touch and go's. All landings were smooth and comfortable. She lifts off at 60 mph or so and accelera tes to 100 very quickly. It climbs very briskly (>1000 fpm) and I get to pattern altitude before turning crosswind. I pull the throttle back on downwind to keep it under 120 mph. It doesn't like to slow down but 8 0 mph is the upper limit for flaps. I have been flying the base and firs t part of final at 80 mph decelerating to 75 then 70 or so at touchdown. The plane lands very nicely. I did currency training in an Evector Spor tStar that is available at St Charles Muni near here. The training =93 including 100 landings at Creve Coeur really paid off! I highly reco mmend that airplane for familiarization with the light, quick characteri stics of the 601XL. I also flew with Rodger & Nick at Mexico a couple of times =93 also highly r ecommended.

 

We went back Thursday (Thanksgiving morni ng!)  and flew for another .6 hour doing more pattern work. One small glitch was after the fi rst takeoff of the day the first canopy latch let loose (there are two l atches for redundancy) and the canopy opened about 1/2 inch. Not much bu t the airflow through the cockpit was noticeable. I came around and land ed normally and relatched the canopy all the way down. Took off again an d flew touch and goes for 30 minutes. I played around with various speed s, flap settings getting used to landing a little slower. I also perform ed a "missed approach" where I aborted the landing just before touching down. I wanted to see how it felt to punch the throttle with the flaps s till down and accelerate while retracting the flaps. No problem. I also flew a short pattern simulating an engine out. Again, no problem.

 

Friday, I flew for an hour venturing away from the pattern to the local practice area. Being under the Class B li mits me to less than 2000 ft (1,500 AGL) so I don=99t go too far y et. I nibbled at the stall with flaps up and down. At 44 mph I get a goo d rumble from the tail with the flaps down. Flaps up is cleaner at 47 or 48 mph. I did not stall the airplane. Full throttle, I saw greater than 142 mph. I was also able to trim it up with both the small elevator tri m (lots of nose up) and the aileron trim (very effective, not much neede d).

 

Saturday, I flew twice going north out fr om under the airspace restrictions. Took her up to 4500 ft. Steep turns, high speed (155 mph in a shallow dive) and low speed trials. Did a few time to climb checks =93 more data later.

 

I=99m taking today off to stop, tak e a breath, regroup, and get organized for the remaining flight test tas ks. The plane flies great! I haven=99t done a bad landing yet! I =99ve got that silly grin you all have heard about. Laughing out loud while flying it is not uncommon. I just have to remember to not do it w hile transmitting!

 

For more info on my project, go to my web site =93 www.flyingwithms .com. It needs updating but I=99m too busy flying!< /SPAN>

 

Tim Garrett

N360TM

Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300



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com/">www.buildersbooks.com
kitlog.com
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www.matronics.com/contribution
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________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! From: "Gig Giacona" Congrats on the first flights and what looks like well built craft. I've been waivering back and fourth between the Sensenich prop and the Warp Drive. You seem to be getting great speed and climb out of the Sensenich. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77124#77124 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:43 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! >> I've been waivering back and fourth between the Sensenich prop and the Warp Drive. Don't forget the new carbon fiber prop from Sensenich. Jabiru USA did a lot of flight testing of it on the 3300. Not cheap at $1300 ($1400 with nickel leading edge) though: www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/carbon_faq-6-061306.pdf www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/comp-ac-cf-rev-1.pdf -- Craig ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:09 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! Have you Though about a Prince P" tip ? Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Too busy flying to post my First Flight! > >>> I've been waivering back and fourth between the Sensenich prop and the > Warp Drive. > > Don't forget the new carbon fiber prop from Sensenich. Jabiru USA did a > lot > of flight testing of it on the 3300. Not cheap at $1300 ($1400 with nickel > leading edge) though: > > www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/carbon_faq-6-061306.pdf > www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/comp-ac-cf-rev-1.pdf > > -- Craig > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:11 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question From: "lwhitlow" Hi All I have decided to go the two fuel pump route in my 601XL. Pumps to be located in the wings Ive seen the pics on the CH601 site of the pump installed between NR1 and 2 Looks lie a sturdy installation but you would have to rip the entire leading edge off of the wing to do a replacement. I took some measurements on my right wing this evening and it looks like the pump could be mounted on the side of NR1 directly (possibly with a doubler) in the space between NR1 and the fusalage. If the pump needs service you have to pull the wing, but that seems easier than removing all of the rivets in the top of the LE skin. It look like about 12 inches of line from the tank to the inlet of the pump, and I would put a filter in that line accessable from the inspection hole in the LE by NR3 Wadaya guys think? Also if the rubber fuel line in the kit is not the best way to go, What other flexible fuel lines should I be looking for?? (not looking to start another Green SCOCHBRITE merry-go round [Laughing] Larry 601XL in Indiana Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77134#77134 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:50 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Zenith-List: PROP CHOICES Has anyone heard any recent news on the progress and possibility of a Paul Lipps ELIPPSE prop? ----- Original Message ----- > > Have you Though about a Prince P" tip ? Joe N101HD >>>> I've been waivering back and fourth between the Sensenich prop and the >> Warp Drive. >> >> Don't forget the new carbon fiber prop from Sensenich. Jabiru USA did a >> lot >> of flight testing of it on the 3300. Not cheap at $1300 ($1400 with >> nickel >> leading edge) though: >> >> www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/carbon_faq-6-061306.pdf >> www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/comp-ac-cf-rev-1.pdf >> ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:11 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue Laquer thinner dissolves everything expect glass and stainmless steel. Ed Moody II ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard E. Swan To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:20 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Cleaning Duct Tape Residue Hello Listers: If a remedy is posted in the archives I apologize, but I looked and couldn't find it. Any suggestions on how to safely clean the residue off of 6061 aluminum that duct tape leaves, especially when it's been on for several years? Thanks! Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/26/2006 11:30 AM ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:46 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question I wouldn't put a filter on the suction side of the fuel pump. It isn't necessary and it increases the risk of a fuel stoppage. All you should have on the suction side of the pump is the screen in the tank. The screen keeps the bigger stuff out of the fuel pump and filter will keep the small stuff from clogging the carbureter jets. The filter should go in the line just before the carburetor. Even on cars the filter is on the pressure side of the pump. On Nov 26, 2006, at 8:21 PM, lwhitlow wrote: > > Hi All > > I have decided to go the two fuel pump route in my 601XL. Pumps to > be located in the wings > > Ive seen the pics on the CH601 site of the pump installed between > NR1 and 2 > Looks lie a sturdy installation but you would have to rip the > entire leading edge off of the wing to do a replacement. > > I took some measurements on my right wing this evening and it > looks like the pump could be mounted on the side of NR1 directly > (possibly with a doubler) in the space between NR1 and the > fusalage. If the pump needs service you have to pull the wing, but > that seems easier than removing all of the rivets in the top of the > LE skin. > > It look like about 12 inches of line from the tank to the inlet of > the pump, and I would put a filter in that line accessable from the > inspection hole in the LE by NR3 > > Wadaya guys think? -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:43 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question I made a pair of mounting brackets that are rivetted to NR2 and NR3. The brackets support the 40501 fuel pump in each wing. The bracket and pump are displaced forward of the oval access hatch in the bottom of the leading edge skin. The pumps are secured to the brackets by two AN3 bolts (each) that engage rivetted platenuts. The access hatch allows inspection and maintenance of the finger screens, the barbed hose fittings, clamps, the unjustly maligned Bing fuel line, the pump, its wiring etc. The pump can be removed and replaced as needed through the access hatch without attacking the leading edge skin itself. In other words, I'm not sure why a wing mounted pump would have to be placed anywhere else. This seems like the obvious best place to me. I have photos if you are interested.. contact me off list, Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL/Jabiru/baggage area ----- Original Message ----- From: lwhitlow To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:21 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question Hi All I have decided to go the two fuel pump route in my 601XL. Pumps to be located in the wings Ive seen the pics on the CH601 site of the pump installed between NR1 and 2 Looks lie a sturdy installation but you would have to rip the entire leading edge off of the wing to do a replacement. I took some measurements on my right wing this evening and it looks like the pump could be mounted on the side of NR1 directly (possibly with a doubler) in the space between NR1 and the fusalage. If the pump needs service you have to pull the wing, but that seems easier than removing all of the rivets in the top of the LE skin. It look like about 12 inches of line from the tank to the inlet of the pump, and I would put a filter in that line accessable from the inspection hole in the LE by NR3 Wadaya guys think? Also if the rubber fuel line in the kit is not the best way to go, What other flexible fuel lines should I be looking for?? (not looking to start another Green SCOCHBRITE merry-go round [Laughing] Larry 601XL in Indiana ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:26 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question Hi Ed, It sounds like a fine installation for the pumps. How do you deal with the electrical and fuel line switching? Do you have it so only the active fuel line gets fuel pump electrical power? Do you have one pump pumping against a closed valve at the selector? Do you need to switch one pump on and another one off when you switch tanks? It seems to me the problems relating to switching the tank and pump at the same time are the worst part of using pumps in each wing. This problem goes away completely if the electric pump is on the engine side of the fuel line selector valve. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 06:37 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: >I made a pair of mounting brackets that are rivetted to NR2 and NR3. >The brackets support the 40501 fuel pump in each wing. The bracket >and pump are displaced forward of the oval access hatch in the >bottom of the leading edge skin. The pumps are secured to the >brackets by two AN3 bolts (each) that engage rivetted platenuts. The >access hatch allows inspection and maintenance of the finger >screens, the barbed hose fittings, clamps, the unjustly maligned >Bing fuel line, the pump, its wiring etc. The pump can be removed >and replaced as needed through the access hatch without attacking >the leading edge skin itself. In other words, I'm not sure why a >wing mounted pump would have to be placed anywhere else. This seems >like the obvious best place to me. I have photos if you are >interested.. contact me off list, > >Ed Moody II >Rayne, LA >601XL/Jabiru/baggage area - ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question From: "lwhitlow" HI Ed Pics would be great!! Maybe I have fat hands but I can't see how I coud get the pump loose and out of the access port. Even if i had a threaded mount for the pump getting a tool in there and holding the pump seems to be tough. Plus the associated fuel lines would take up some space I would love to see your install and how you solved the problem. Why not post a pic here so we all can see? Bryan the Facet install sheet specifies a 70 micon filter on the inlet side of the pump Has anyone else put a filter on the inlet side of the Facet pump?? > > > Bryan wrote > > I wouldn't put a filter on the suction side of the fuel pump. It > isn't necessary and it increases the risk of a fuel stoppage. All you > should have on the suction side of the pump is the screen in the > tank. The screen keeps the bigger stuff out of the fuel pump and > filter will keep the small stuff from clogging the carbureter jets. > The filter should go in the line just before the carburetor. Even on > cars the filter is on the pressure side of the pump. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77156#77156 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:49 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question There's really no problem as I see it. In most aircraft, the boost pump is switched on, at least briefly, before the demand occurs (ie starting the engine). In mine, the two wing tanks are plumbed to the selector valve; from there on to the gascolator; from there on through the firewall and the inline filter then the carb. On the pump electrical power issue, I have the EXP BUS which has a single fuel pump switch protected by one of their solid state circuit breaker devices. I intend to go from that switch output to a left/right toggle switch to direct the power to the desired pump. The selector switch will be located in the center console right by the selector valve handle. In a routine situation, before switching tanks flip the boost pump selector switch and flip the power on at the EXP BUS, then switch tanks. In an urgent situation, switch tanks first then flip the selelctor switch and turn on power at the panel. Remember these are boost pumps that are normally only used during full power at takeoff and climb, or in the pattern on approach. The tank and the pump to which power can be sent have already been selected when things get busy. The only other time would be if I had reason to suspect bubbles in the line (full or partial loss of engine power inflight) so the action in that case is to simply switch power on at the panel (the tank and pump are already selected). Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:07 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question Hi Ed, It sounds like a fine installation for the pumps. How do you deal with the electrical and fuel line switching? Do you have it so only the active fuel line gets fuel pump electrical power? Do you have one pump pumping against a closed valve at the selector? Do you need to switch one pump on and another one off when you switch tanks? It seems to me the problems relating to switching the tank and pump at the same time are the worst part of using pumps in each wing. This problem goes away completely if the electric pump is on the engine side of the fuel line selector valve. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:00 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question I'm a dentist and small work spaces are not scary to me but this one is really no sweat. I did make the access port as big as the space would allow but that is not much bigger than what was called for in the plans. A small ratchet handle, a short extention and a short socket do the job of installation / removal with reasoanble ease. Beats a root canal on an upper second molar anyway. Ed Don't bother flaming me on the Bing fuel line... that's what I'm using. ----- Original Message ----- From: lwhitlow To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:07 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question HI Ed Pics would be great!! Maybe I have fat hands but I can't see how I coud get the pump loose and out of the access port. Even if i had a threaded mount for the pump getting a tool in there and holding the pump seems to be tough. Plus the associated fuel lines would take up some space I would love to see your install and how you solved the problem. Why not post a pic here so we all can see? Bryan the Facet install sheet specifies a 70 micon filter on the inlet side of the pump Has anyone else put a filter on the inlet side of the Facet pump?? > > > Bryan wrote > > I wouldn't put a filter on the suction side of the fuel pump. It > isn't necessary and it increases the risk of a fuel stoppage. All you > should have on the suction side of the pump is the screen in the > tank. The screen keeps the bigger stuff out of the fuel pump and > filter will keep the small stuff from clogging the carbureter jets. > The filter should go in the line just before the carburetor. Even on > cars the filter is on the pressure side of the pump. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77156#77156 -- 11/26/2006 11:30 AM ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:57 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question Hi Ed, I guess my thinking was a little different regarding the electric pumps. With a low wing airplane, a fuel pump is as necessary to the engine as spark plugs. The real purpose of the electric pump is to provide fuel when the mechanical pump fails. We turn them on at critical moments in anticipation of a potential mechanical pump failure. If the mechanical pump is so nasty as to quit while we are landing or taking off then the electrical pump keeps the engine running. Your scenario sounds pretty good to me. It is a bit complicated by the two switches rather than just one. I wonder if there will be any damage to either the pump or the fuel lines or other fuel system components like filters if the wrong pump is powered up when it cannot actually cause fuel to flow. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 07:40 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: >There's really no problem as I see it. In most aircraft, the boost >pump is switched on, at least briefly, before the demand occurs (ie >starting the engine). In mine, the two wing tanks are plumbed to the >selector valve; from there on to the gascolator; from there on >through the firewall and the inline filter then the carb. > >On the pump electrical power issue, I have the EXP BUS which has a >single fuel pump switch protected by one of their solid state >circuit breaker devices. I intend to go from that switch output to a >left/right toggle switch to direct the power to the desired pump. >The selector switch will be located in the center console right by >the selector valve handle. In a routine situation, before switching >tanks flip the boost pump selector switch and flip the power on at >the EXP BUS, then switch tanks. In an urgent situation, switch tanks >first then flip the selelctor switch and turn on power at the panel. > >Remember these are boost pumps that are normally only used during >full power at takeoff and climb, or in the pattern on approach. The >tank and the pump to which power can be sent have already been >selected when things get busy. The only other time would be if I had >reason to suspect bubbles in the line (full or partial loss of >engine power inflight) so the action in that case is to simply >switch power on at the panel (the tank and pump are already selected). > >Ed > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:48 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question At 08:21 PM 11/26/2006, lwhitlow wrote: >Also if the rubber fuel line in the kit is not the best way to go, What >other flexible fuel lines should I be looking for?? I am using gates fuel injection hose in the outboard wing sections with fuel injection type hose clamps. These clamps have the little nut and bolt that squeezes the springy metal part of the clamp. They stay tight when the material they are clamping expands and contracts with heat. The hose is the latest type and is not affected by any of the present gas or diesel formulations. This fuel line is called SAE 30R9 and is described in this gates document. www.gates.com/common/downloads/files/Gates/brochure/TechTipsForm.pdf or here (same thing) http://acdelcotechconnect.com/pdf/tsb/tsb_fuel_line.pdf Jim Pollard Merlin Ont ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:25 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 3D CAD 701 cockpit drawing > Theres a website called "Emachine" I beleive its a > free cad download. Try that, I think its 3D but I'm > not sure. Good Luck, RS < do not archive > --- Les Goldner wrote: > Has anyone completed a 3D CAD drawing file of the > panel and cockpit area of > a CH701?? I want design the seating and instrument > layout for my 701 to my > liking. The best ways of doing this are either by > making a cockpit mockup or > a 3D drawing. > > My choice would be the drawing (no room in my garage > for the mockup and more > difficult making mockup changes). > > I have done 3D CAD drawings before. While they are > very time consuming, 3D > CAD drawings are generally worth their effort. I > could view the cockpit from > any angle and eye-level, and test instrument > placement before cutting the > panel. Before starting this project I thought that I > would check if anyone > has already produced a 701 cockpit 3D CAD file. Why > reinvent the wheel if > someone out there in Zenith-List land has already > done it? > > Les > > Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:17 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question >> Don't bother flaming me on the Bing fuel line... that's what I'm using. But it looks like you are using crimped clamps which is good :-) -- Craig ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:26 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Zenith-List: Jab 3300/601XL Ignition switch-regulator-solenoid wiring The Jab manual's wiring diagram shows a simple ignition toggle switch. Some time ago I bought the typical Cessna style key switch, which has the left-right-both positions for the mags. Since the Jab engine uses mags, shouldn't the wiring be the same as a Cessna? Anyone have a wiring diagrm for the ignition/charging part of the electrical system? (I think I have the rest of the electrical wiring dialed in). Mike F. 601XL, Jab 3300 Resuming building after life's interruptions --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:45 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 3D CAD 701 cockpit drawing Robert, Thanks for the advice, but I have good 3D-CAD software. The issue is making the 3D drawing of the inside of the cockpit so that I can play with alternative layouts and view it as if I were sitting in the 701 before I build it. Trying to figure out dims and angles of the inside surfaces from the Heintz drawings is not too easy. In addition, it will take a few days to accurately draw the cockpit on my Turbo-CAD PC software after I have the dimensions. These are the processes I am trying to short-circuit. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > ROBERT SCEPPA > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:19 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 3D CAD 701 cockpit drawing > > > > Theres a website called "Emachine" I beleive its a free cad > download. > > Try that, I think its 3D but I'm not sure. Good Luck, RS < do not > > archive > > --- Les Goldner wrote: > > > Has anyone completed a 3D CAD drawing file of the panel and cockpit > > area of > > a CH701?? I want design the seating and instrument > > layout for my 701 to my > > liking. The best ways of doing this are either by making a cockpit > > mockup or a 3D drawing. > > > > My choice would be the drawing (no room in my garage for the mockup > > and more difficult making mockup changes). > > > > I have done 3D CAD drawings before. While they are very time > > consuming, 3D CAD drawings are generally worth their > effort. I could > > view the cockpit from any angle and eye-level, and test instrument > > placement before cutting the panel. Before starting this project I > > thought that I would check if anyone has already produced a 701 > > cockpit 3D CAD file. Why reinvent the wheel if someone out there in > > Zenith-List land has already done it? > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > Want to start your own business? > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:43 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL Hello Randy, Great idea, I will try to get some or all of the Zenith pilots here to go, will make a great international fly in... Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. I think I have brought this up before, and I'll bring it up again. The KR group puts on a fly-in every year. It is completely sponsored by the build/flyer/wannabees. Check out http://www.krgathering.org/ . They elect a place and sponsor each year. It's mostly financed by donations and sales of hats and t-shirts. I think it would be great to have such a gathering of Zenith folks. They usually have volunteers do different demonstrations. In their case things like carving foam and laying up fiberglass. For us, someone could do demos for building spars or bending ribs and such. I think we have a very nice place to hold one here in San Antonio, but I have too many issues to be able to sponsor it. Maybe someone else could do the main sponsoring and I could help. The local EAA chapter has a club house w/kitchen, and smoker/bbq grill. There's place for camping or stay at the local hotels. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 n282rs at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mack Kreizenbeck Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 12:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL --> Juan, I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there got any suggestions? The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho 601 XL QBK --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:41 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: PROP CHOICES Robin, My information is several months old, but I will give you what I know. I met Paul at EAA chapter 1 fly-in in southern California. At that time, they were working on getting props built for the Vans series of aircraft. They were going for the bigger numbers in the RV's. Paul has one installed in his Lancair, which he flew to the event, and one installed in the Reno racer based in Fallbrook, Ca. At the time, there were no solid plans for building props in the 100 hp range, only the desire to do so in the future. If John Moyle is still monitoring the list, he will have more accurate information. John, who is the US Woodcomp dealer, partnered with Paul for the prop production. If you receive Contact magazine, I am confident that they will be all over the progress of the prop, as John is also the associate editor, or some other important sounding title. He is also a 601 XL builder... VR/ Brandon Tucker --------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.