Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:38 AM - Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year... (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:30 AM - 801 Tire Clearance (Dave Ruddiman)
2. 12:45 AM - Re: Enough!!! (secatur)
3. 02:34 AM - Re: Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please Read] (secatur)
4. 03:25 AM - CZAW cowl question again (Trevor Page)
5. 05:24 AM - Making a Vixen File Tool (Doug Moellering)
6. 05:36 AM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (Carlos Sa)
7. 05:59 AM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (R.P.)
8. 06:08 AM - Re: CZAW cowl question again (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 06:21 AM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (John Hines)
10. 06:29 AM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (John Hines)
11. 06:40 AM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (Chris Lewis)
12. 10:10 AM - Re: Enough!!! (TxDave)
13. 10:23 AM - Zenith 601XL Plans for sale (Joe Kerr)
14. 10:37 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Plans for sale (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
15. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Enough!!! (JOHN STARN)
16. 11:55 AM - Buying a Partial Built Kit (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
17. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: Zenith 601XL Plans for sale (Joe Kerr)
18. 01:07 PM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (Zodie Rocket)
19. 01:22 PM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (Michael Valentine)
20. 01:29 PM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (Chris Lewis)
21. 01:35 PM - Re: Making a Vixen File Tool (crvsecretary@aol.com)
22. 02:07 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (ALAN BEYER)
23. 02:21 PM - Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? (PatrickW)
24. 02:21 PM - Re: CZAW cowl question again (zodieman)
25. 02:31 PM - Re: CZAW cowl question again (Trevor Page)
26. 02:31 PM - ScotchBrite Pad Replacement (Zed Smith)
27. 02:48 PM - Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? (Juan Vega)
28. 02:52 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (Juan Vega)
29. 03:32 PM - Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? (Ron Lendon)
30. 03:36 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (Paul Mulwitz)
31. 04:32 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (george may)
32. 04:37 PM - Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience (Gary Gower)
33. 04:43 PM - Re: 701 slats again (Gary Gower)
34. 04:54 PM - Re: ScotchBrite Pad Replacement (Randy L. Thwing)
35. 05:04 PM - Re: Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year... ()
36. 05:15 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
37. 05:17 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (Juan Vega)
38. 05:24 PM - Crackes in Firewall stiffeners... (Gpjann@aol.com)
39. 05:39 PM - Re: CZAW cowl question again (n801bh@netzero.com)
40. 05:52 PM - Re: Crackes in Firewall stiffeners... (Dave Austin)
41. 06:00 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (DaveG601XL)
42. 06:05 PM - Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? (DaveG601XL)
43. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: Enough!!! (ron wehba)
44. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Enough!!! (Jaybannist@cs.com)
45. 07:20 PM - Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience (Ron Lendon)
46. 09:59 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (Brandon Tucker)
47. 10:19 PM - N601XT flies... for real this time... (Brandon Tucker)
48. 11:01 PM - Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit (xl)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response
has been very good, but we are behind last year in the number of people that have
made a Contribution and as a percentage of the total number of subscribers.
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | 801 Tire Clearance |
801 People,
I haven't started my fuselage yet so I don't know the answer to this
question. What is the clearance between the wheels and the gear legs?
Both the mains and the nose. I assume 8.50 tires will fit, but I am
curious if anything larger will. If anyone knows, I would appreciate
knowing too.
Dave in Salem - snow melted, getting cold
Message 2
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Hey...what about us poor slobs in Australia...some of us ain't seen rain for 5
YEARS! I think we'd all jump at the chance to get a couple feet of snow and a
bit of relief fro 38 degrees! lol
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77814#77814
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please |
Read]
Hey Matt,
not to put too fine a point on it , (and I'm sure it's totally great) but when
soliciting donations it is customary to include annual financials. Yes?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77815#77815
Message 4
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| Subject: | CZAW cowl question again |
(Looks like my first post got stripped)
Just wondering if anyone on the list has any input on something:
I'm just completed the conversion of my 601HD to the CZAW cowl and
rad placement. It was very easy and it's a very nice kit. I reckon I
got an extra 5Mph out of the plane because of the cleaner profile
(I've flown it for 1 hour so far)
However, I still seem to have higher oil temps. I have an 80HP 912
and I sprung for the larger oil cooler which I've installed as
directed in front of the muffler can. Now, the oil cooler inlet duct
in the cowl is rather small: I see a 3/4" opening at the end of the
NACA duct.
Has anyone with a recent R912 install on an HD or XL with the same
oil cooler placement have the same issue with a small opening? There
seems to be a real lack of pictures of the install to compare mine
against so maybe someone can chime in? My oil temps reach 260F which
seems a bit higher than most but I do know that my older engine has
an oil temp probe located on the bottom front oil outlet fitting
rather than the newer location at the oil pump housing. I reckon my
temps are going to be higher since the oil temps are read after the
oil has gone through the engine just before going into the tank. How
much higher? I have no idea but does 30F seems reasonable? More?
Right now I'm waiting to hear back from anyone before I go and do
something drastic like make the opening bigger cutting the roof of
the NACA duct forward or make up some kind of ducting work to come
closer the oil cooler and seal it up somehow.
Thanks in advance!
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
I've included a picture of the cowl so you can see what I'm talking
about on the forum
Message 5
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| Subject: | Making a Vixen File Tool |
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to give
me a tip or two.
Doug
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
Doug, if you are thinking of deburring holes, consider fine sand paper.
I have used it with very good results.
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 29/11/06, Doug Moellering <dfmoeller@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
>
> OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
> deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
> on
> scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
>
> How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
> of
> the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
> surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
> tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
>
> Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to give
> me a tip or two.
>
> Doug
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Moellering" <dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
> <dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
>
> OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
> deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
> on scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
>
> How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
> of the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
> surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
> tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
>
> Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to give
> me a tip or two.
>
> Doug
The vixen file deburring tools that I have used were epoxied to the wooden
block.
Don't screw it, glue it.
Rick Pitcher
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
260 is too high for sure. Is there a way to enlarge the source that feed
s the incoming air to the cooler??
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> wrote:
(Looks like my first post got stripped)Just wondering if anyone on the l
ist has any input on something:I'm just completed the conversion of my 6
01HD to the CZAW cowl and rad placement. It was very easy and it's a ver
y nice kit. I reckon I got an extra 5Mph out of the plane because of the
cleaner profile (I've flown it for 1 hour so far)However, I still seem
to have higher oil temps. I have an 80HP 912 and I sprung for the larger
oil cooler which I've installed as directed in front of the muffler can
. Now, the oil cooler inlet duct in the cowl is rather small: I see a 3/
4" opening at the end of the NACA duct.Has anyone with a recent R912 ins
tall on an HD or XL with the same oil cooler placement have the same iss
ue with a small opening? There seems to be a real lack of pictures of th
e install to compare mine against so maybe someone can chime in? My oil
temps reach 260F which seems a bit higher than most but I do know that
my older engine has an oil temp probe located on the bottom front oil ou
tlet fitting rather than the newer location at the oil pump housing. I r
eckon my temps are going to be higher since the oil temps are read after
the oil has gone through the engine just before going into the tank. Ho
w much higher? I have no idea but does 30F seems reasonable? More?Right
now I'm waiting to hear back from anyone before I go and do something dr
astic like make the opening bigger cutting the roof of the NACA duct for
ward or make up some kind of ducting work to come closer the oil cooler
and seal it up somehow.Thanks in advance!
Trev PageC-IDUS 601HD R912I've included a picture of the cowl so you can
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
=====
<html><P>260 is too high for sure. Is there a way to enlarge the source
that feeds the incoming air to the cooler??</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> 
;wrote:<BR></P>
<DIV>(Looks like my first post got stripped)</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Just wondering if anyone on the list has any input on something:</D
IV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I'm just completed the conversion of my 601HD to the CZAW cowl and
rad placement. It was very easy and it's a very nice kit. I reckon I got
an extra 5Mph out of the plane because of the cleaner profile (I've flo
wn it for 1 hour so far)</DIV>
<DIV>However, I still seem to have higher oil temps. I have an 80HP 912
and I sprung for the larger oil cooler which I've installed as directed
in front of the muffler can. Now, the oil cooler inlet duct in the cowl
is rather small: I see a 3/4" opening at the end of the NACA duct.</DIV>
<DIV>Has anyone with a recent R912 install on an HD or XL with the same
oil cooler placement have the same issue with a small opening? There see
ms to be a real lack of pictures of the install to compare mine against
so maybe someone can chime in? My oil temps reach 260F which seems
a bit higher than most but I do know that my older engine has an oil te
mp probe located on the bottom front oil outlet fitting rather than the
newer location at the oil pump housing. I reckon my temps are going to b
e higher since the oil temps are read after the oil has gone through the
engine just before going into the tank. How much higher? I have no idea
but does 30F seems reasonable? More?</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Right now I'm waiting to hear back from anyone before I go and do s
omething drastic like make the opening bigger cutting the roof of the NA
CA duct forward or make up some kind of ducting work to come closer the
oil cooler and seal it up somehow.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance!</DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12
px Verdana; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; W
HITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; b
order-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-te
xt-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>Trev Page</DIV>
<DIV>C-IDUS 601HD R912</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN
></DIV>I've included a picture of the cowl so you can see what I'm talki
ng about on the forum
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="cou
rier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
========================
===========
roelectric.com</A>
com/">www.buildersbooks.com</A>
kitlog.com</A>
homebuilthelp.com</A>
www.matronics.com/contribution</A>
========================
===========
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
========================
===========
</B></FONT></PRE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
At the bank and stuff.
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
<dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>At the bank and stuff.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BR><DIV align=left><TABLE height 0 cellSpacing=0
cellPadding=0 width=400 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD
style="BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat" align=left
width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%"
border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt;
COLOR: #000000; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Verdana"
align=left>John R. Hines</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT:
normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px;
FONT-FAMILY: Arial" align=left>IT Manager</TD></TR><TR><TD
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #767374;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
align=left>John.Hines@craftontull.com</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle
height=10></TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE:
8pt; COLOR: #767374; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
align=left><br/>
Office: 479-878-2449 <br/>
Mobile: 479-366-4783 <br/>
Fax: 479-631-6224 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle
height=10></TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE:
7pt; COLOR: #767374; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
align=right><A
href="http://www.craftontull.com/">www.craftontull.com</A></TD></TR><TR
><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #767374;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" align=right>901 N. 47th
Street, Suite 200 ·Rogers, AR 72756</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right
height=40><A title="Visit our website for more information."
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="http://www.craftontull.com/"
target=_blank><IMG
src="http://www.craftontull.com/images/emailsignature_block1.gif"
border=0></A></TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #767374; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
align=justify>Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to
anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with
successful
solutions.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>-----
Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com><BR>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006<BR>
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool<BR>
<BR>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Moellering"
<dfmoeller@austin.rr.com><BR>
<BR>
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden
handle)<BR>
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on<BR>
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.<BR>
<BR>
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of<BR>
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch
the<BR>
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to
undo the<BR>
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?<BR>
<BR>
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give<BR>
me a tip or two.<BR>
<BR>
Doug<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
===========<BR>
This Month --<BR>
Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)<BR>
on<BR>
www.buildersbooks.com<BR>
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution</A><BR>
bsp; &nb
sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.<BR>
===========<BR>
Zenith-List Email Forum -<BR>
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A><BR>
===========<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT>
</P>
<BR><BR><FONT style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 8pt;
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
Oops! Sorry guys, I responded to the wrong email. Sorry.
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 08:21:22 2006
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
At the bank and stuff.
John R. Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines@craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com <http://www.craftontull.com/>
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 =C2=B7Rogers, AR 72756
<http://www.craftontull.com/>
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
<dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
This Month --
Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
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Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com><BR>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 08:21:22 2006<BR>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool<BR>
<BR>
At the bank and stuff.<BR>
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John R. Hines <BR>
IT Manager <BR>
John.Hines@craftontull.com <BR>
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Office: 479-878-2449<BR>
Mobile: 479-366-4783<BR>
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HREF="http://www.craftontull.com/">http://www.craftontull.com/</A>>
<BR>
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 ·Rogers, AR 72756<BR>
<<A
HREF="http://www.craftontull.com/">http://www.craftontull.com/</A>>&
nbsp;<BR>
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand
the needs of our clients and provide them with successful
solutions. <BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com><BR>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006<BR>
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool<BR>
<BR>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Moellering"
<dfmoeller@austin.rr.com><BR>
<BR>
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden
handle)<BR>
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on<BR>
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.<BR>
<BR>
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of<BR>
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch
the<BR>
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to
undo the<BR>
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?<BR>
<BR>
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give<BR>
me a tip or two.<BR>
<BR>
Doug<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
===========<BR>
This Month --<BR>
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ontribution</A>"><A
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ontribution</A><BR>
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sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.<BR>
===========<BR>
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
No drilling required!
Skip the drilling and just bond the file to the wooden handle with some JB Weld-type
epoxy (make sure the file is clean!). Drill a couple of shallow holes up
into your wooden handle to help prevent shearing of the top side of the joint.
Don't forget to chmfer the edges to prevent digging in if you get off level.
Enjoy.
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77835#77835
Message 12
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You mean I might get to actually turn my air conditioner off for awhile. You know
Texas weather...it'll be back up to 80 next week.
do not archive
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77868#77868
Message 13
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| Subject: | Zenith 601XL Plans for sale |
Unused 601XL plans are now for sale on Ebay, Item # 250055386707.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith 601XL Plans for sale |
Is this your set of plans? If so don't you have to transfer the builder #?
I'm not sure how it works for plans only.
Jeff
do not archive
Message 15
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>From what a buddy who lives there says. "Ya'll don't like the weather, wait
15 minutes it'll change". KABONG Do Not Archive
"TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
> You mean I might get to actually turn my air conditioner off for awhile.
> You know Texas weather...it'll be back up to 80 next week.
> do not archive
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> http://www.daves601xl.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Buying a Partial Built Kit |
Dear Thread Friends, I'm looking to buy a kit that the original owner has
finished most of the tail and part of a wing. A couple questions arise. What
documentation for sale to satisfy the FAA for certification is required? When I
bought my XL kit directly from ZAC I received a sales certificate that I had to
include a copy of to the FAA for certification. Who out there has bought a
started kit and successfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount
of work can be accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to
be granted a repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall
pole" in the tent because I would not own a plane I can't work on. Hope to
hear soon from some of you smart fellows. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
96 hours
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Zenith 601XL Plans for sale |
Yes, it is my set of plans, #6-5860, and of course I will transfer the
builder number to the buyer.
Joe
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Making a Vixen File Tool |
Doug, please go with the Epoxy method. Bonding the Vixen file is a lot
better then the screw method. Don't forget to knock off the edges.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Moellering
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:23 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
<dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
--
11/29/2006
--
11/29/2006
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
Sorry to ask the obvious, but how does one cut the file in the first
place???
Michael in NH
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
Cutting Vixen File
You could just use a cut-off wheel to score both sides part-way through and then
place the file in a vise and whack it with a deadblow hammer. It should snap
right off. Grind to suit your curved end shapes and then chamfer the sharp edges
to prevent gouging
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77914#77914
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
Drop it on the floor! Ok, only kidding (sort of...)
Files are VERY hard, and that makes them very brittle. Secure the file in a vice
(with soft jaws) where you want the file to break and smack it close to the
break zone with a rubber mallet - it will snap like a dry straw.
WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES !!!!
Best Regards,
Tracy Smith
N458XL reserved
wings in process....
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: mgvalentine@gmail.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
Sorry to ask the obvious, but how does one cut the file in the first place???
Michael in NH
________________________________________________________________________
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
A friend of mine just finished and is now flying a Zodiac HD. He got the k
it from a guy that had the wings and tail stuff already done. He had no tr
ouble with the FAA. I am not sure what steps he took to register the plane
. The best guy to talk to is Joe Norris of the EAA. He is in Aviation Ser
vices and is a DAR. He did the inspection on my HDS. As far as working on
your plane the FAA told me that a trained monkey, or your wife can work on
the plane, but you need the Repairmans Cert. to inspect it.=0A=0AAl from O
shkosh=0AHDS-3300 (N645AB)=0A275 Hrs.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---
-=0AFrom: "JAPhillipsGA@aol.com" <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@m
atronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:54:07 PM=0ASubject: Zen
ith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit=0A=0ADear Thread Friends, I'm looking
to buy a kit that the original owner has finished most of the tail and part
of a wing. A couple questions arise. What documentation for sale to satisf
y the FAA for certification is required? When I bought my XL kit directly f
rom ZAC I received a sales certificate that I had to include a copy of to t
he FAA for certification. Who out there has bought a started kit and succes
sfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount of work can be
accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to be granted a
repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall pole" in t
he tent because I would not own a plane I can't work on. Hope to hear soon
from some of you smart fellows. Best regards, Bill of Georgia=0AN505WP=0A60
===========
Message 23
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| Subject: | Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
Thread Friends,
I'm planning on applying Cortec to the mating surfaces before riveting my stabilizer
together.
Are there any concerns with the cortec "wearing down" over a long time and resulting
in loose rivets...?
Maybe after a few years of exposure to heat/moisture/vibration? Being that it's
also water soluble, will moisture erode it?
Thanks,
- PatrickW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77922#77922
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
Here's the picture of the CZAW cowl I mentioned. Notice the oil cooler inlet on
the bottom. The opening at the back is only 3/4". Since it's on an upwards angle
when installed, cutting the "roof" of the inlet will make for a wider opening
to allow more air in.
I've also attached another picture of a red 601 with the same cowl and the lower
inlet seems to be missing much of the so-called "roof". You can clearly see
the oil cooler in there.
Any thoughts?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77923#77923
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/red601_676.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/czawcowl_205.jpg
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
Remember, the 260F reading is taken from a location where the oil is
HOT after gone through the engine. Newer 912's take the reading at
the oil pump after it's gone through the cooler. Bound to be colder
but I don't know how much...
Yes, I suppose I can cut the roof of the inlet a bit to make the
opening larger by virtue of it being more "forward" because the inlet
is on an upwards angle. I have posted pictures on the forum so
everyone can see what I'm talking about.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 29, 2006, at 2:06 PM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
> 260 is too high for sure. Is there a way to enlarge the source that
> feeds the incoming air to the cooler??
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> -- Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> wrote:
>
> (Looks like my first post got stripped)
>
> Just wondering if anyone on the list has any input on something:
>
> I'm just completed the conversion of my 601HD to the CZAW cowl and
> rad placement. It was very easy and it's a very nice kit. I reckon
> I got an extra 5Mph out of the plane because of the cleaner profile
> (I've flown it for 1 hour so far)
> However, I still seem to have higher oil temps. I have an 80HP 912
> and I sprung for the larger oil cooler which I've installed as
> directed in front of the muffler can. Now, the oil cooler inlet
> duct in the cowl is rather small: I see a 3/4" opening at the end
> of the NACA duct.
> Has anyone with a recent R912 install on an HD or XL with the same
> oil cooler placement have the same issue with a small opening?
> There seems to be a real lack of pictures of the install to compare
> mine against so maybe someone can chime in? My oil temps reach
> 260F which seems a bit higher than most but I do know that my older
> engine has an oil temp probe located on the bottom front oil outlet
> fitting rather than the newer location at the oil pump housing. I
> reckon my temps are going to be higher since the oil temps are read
> after the oil has gone through the engine just before going into
> the tank. How much higher? I have no idea but does 30F seems
> reasonable? More?
>
> Right now I'm waiting to hear back from anyone before I go and do
> something drastic like make the opening bigger cutting the roof of
> the NACA duct forward or make up some kind of ducting work to come
> closer the oil cooler and seal it up somehow.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
> I've included a picture of the cowl so you can see what I'm talking
> about on the forum
>
>
> ===================================
> roelectric.com
> com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> kitlog.com
> homebuilthelp.com
> www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
> ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> ===================================
>
>
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| Subject: | ScotchBrite Pad Replacement |
Trained Monkey!!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you......this should score somewhat higher than the
aforementioned Pads.
This thread may well unravel the entire List.....
Just remember to include DO NOT ARCHIVE THE TRAINED MONKEY otherwise the Matronics
servers will go bananas.
Regards to all,
Still 75 degrees F in northeast Texas,
Zed
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
if riveted correctly, the surfaces should be solid for the life of the plane, why
the Cortec might I ask?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 29, 2006 5:20 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...?
>
>
>Thread Friends,
>
>I'm planning on applying Cortec to the mating surfaces before riveting my stabilizer
together.
>
>Are there any concerns with the cortec "wearing down" over a long time and resulting
in loose rivets...?
>
>Maybe after a few years of exposure to heat/moisture/vibration? Being that it's
also water soluble, will moisture erode it?
>
>Thanks,
>
>- PatrickW
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77922#77922
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
I just am in process of registeting the plane on the famous -01 FAA paper. if
amateur status, equals 40 hr fly off but repairman's certificate for annuals
is literally automatic. Option two is LSA status which equals a 25 hour fly off,
but would need to take 16hour repairman's license. You friend probably did
what a lot of people have done, sign that it was 51% amateur built.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: ALAN BEYER <agbeyer@sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Nov 29, 2006 5:05 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit
>
>A friend of mine just finished and is now flying a Zodiac HD. He got the kit
from a guy that had the wings and tail stuff already done. He had no trouble
with the FAA. I am not sure what steps he took to register the plane. The best
guy to talk to is Joe Norris of the EAA. He is in Aviation Services and is
a DAR. He did the inspection on my HDS. As far as working on your plane the
FAA told me that a trained monkey, or your wife can work on the plane, but you
need the Repairmans Cert. to inspect it.
>
>Al from Oshkosh
>HDS-3300 (N645AB)
>275 Hrs.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: "JAPhillipsGA@aol.com" <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:54:07 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit
>
>Dear Thread Friends, I'm looking to buy a kit that the original owner has finished
most of the tail and part of a wing. A couple questions arise. What documentation
for sale to satisfy the FAA for certification is required? When I bought
my XL kit directly from ZAC I received a sales certificate that I had to include
a copy of to the FAA for certification. Who out there has bought a started
kit and successfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount
of work can be accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to be
granted a repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall pole"
in the tent because I would not own a plane I can't work on. Hope to hear
soon from some of you smart fellows. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>N505WP
>60===========
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| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
Don't put it on to thick. I can see through my primer.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77939#77939
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
Hi Juan,
I think you could be mistaken on the 25 hour phase I test period for
LSA airplanes. We had one fellow get only 5 hours for a Kitfox last
year. The inspector (not DAR) felt the engine and propeller were
established (not certified, though) partners and decided a 5 hour
test period was appropriate.
On the Experimental-AB choice the minimum is 25 hours and 40 is
required if the power plant is considered a new combination or design.
I believe the down side of Experimental - LSA is the requirement for
the 2 day course for authority to sign off annual condition inspections.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 02:51 PM 11/29/2006, you wrote:
>I just am in process of registeting the plane on the famous -01 FAA
>paper. if amateur status, equals 40 hr fly off but
>repairman's certificate for annuals is literally automatic. Option
>two is LSA status which equals a 25 hour fly off, but would need to
>take 16hour repairman's license. You friend probably did what a lot
>of people have done, sign that it was 51% amateur built.
>
>Juan
-
Message 31
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| Subject: | Buying a Partial Built Kit |
"documentation for sale to satisfy the FAA for certification is required"
Bill--
I bought my kit from an individual. You will need the FAA Bill of Sale
to be filled out by you and signed by the seller. In addition you will need
to call Zenith and have them send you a Bill of sale showing the sale to the
original purchaser. The government is looking for a complete chain of
ownership. The last question is tougher----it depends. Typically it depends
on how good you are at convincing the FAA inspector or DAR that you
assembled 51% of the kit. Remember you don't really have to have assembled
51% of all of the kit parts , only items that are listed as part of the 51%
effort. For example you would not have to have assembled all of the ribs,
just enough to understand how to do it etc.
Keep a good log and photos of your efforts
I've built 2 planes under these conditions and never had any issue with
the FAA.
Hope that helps
George May
601XL 912s 13 hours
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Hello Steve,
I have not flown a 601 XL but I am building one now... But:
With any airplane, the most important thing is to fly it all the way down, The
closer to the ground the pilot is, there is more chances to panic and try to
"hold" it flying... This will finish in a Stall, a Spin or a "pancake" slam
to the ground, all this fatal and caused for lack of keeping speed, not because
of the airplane design or safe airfoils...
There is nothing as practice, practice and practice to build self confidence.
keep the landing speed (slow enough in the ZAC airplanes to save the life) until
touch down, is important to never fly over any place you dont want to land
and always keep a "landing spot" at glide distance. Instruction in Gliders
(or 2 cycle ultralights :-) will be of great value to all of us.
I am voluntair (sp?) for the local Search and Rescue team, I have witnessed
from a fatal landing over flat hard sand onobstructed area, nothing to kill him
just his panic and one where a pilot managed to land (lost the landing gear
do and some damage to wings) the airplane in a 600 ft area sorounded with
houses at 7,300 ft (noon, hot) and at gross with full tanks and luggage, he
lost all power at take off 400 ft over terrain Both pilot and passenger where
safe and sound!!!! The airplane, a european 2 seater similar to the 601 XL
is already repaired and flying.
The important thing is to keep calm (very dificult in any emergency, without practice)
and fly as hight as prudent so you can choose a good landing spot...
Not last but as important: keep your airplane in perfect shape (mantainance) and
do your preflight...
Hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Mexico.
Do not archive.
Steven Janicki <mmesa005@yahoo.com> wrote: Hello All,
I am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have been reading the recent
threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and pilot.
I don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about what happened, etc.
I would like to know if anyone has experience with simulated engine out landings
and would share those experiences with the group? I would also appreciate
any experiences with how the 601XL glides during simulated engine out practice
and any comparisons to other aircraft, i.e. Cessna 172, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Steven
---------------------------------
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
I am part of your team Ben... To many years to enjoy flying yet :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Do not archive
"n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote: I don't know about the 701 but,,
the 801's slat leading edge profile is nothing like the wings leading edge
profile. I will look very close at a 701 when I see one to see if it's like the
bigger brothers. I would NEVER remove my 801's slats and fly with just the wing
alone. but heck, thats just me... YMMV.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Robert N. Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net> wrote:
Carl,
I talked to Chris Heintz at Air Venture several years ago about the 701
airfoil, and the aerodynamic design of the slats. The airfoil is an old
standard airfoil (it is a NACA 640-18) with just a slot added. In other
words, if you simply remove the slot and leave the fixed slat in its design
postion to define the nose of the airfoil, then you have standard NACA
640-18 airfoil. If one wants to remove the slat from the airfoil design, the
original airfoil can be recovered by simply covering the slots with sheet
metal that matches the airfoil contour.
Bob Eli
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt@mondenet.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Fw: Zenith-List: 701 slats again
>
>
> From: "Carl Bertrand" &
lt;cgbrt@mondenet.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 no slats again
>
> Hi Joe
> Have followed this thread with interest.
> I've experimented with the 701's wing design but not with vgs. I opted for
> air pressure operated slats and a thinner airfoil.
> For more info on the results see my presentation at: eaa245.dhs.org/
> I never considered flying the 701 without slat but I'm not surprised that
> it could be a hand full. My take is that the Cof G and the centre of
> pressure would move back, the Cp more so causing a nose heavy pitch moment
> at all speeds and angles of attack. I would expect all stall speeds to
> increase with the clean wing and top speed to probably remain the same or
> decrease because of the blunt leading edge.
> Adding vgs should delay the stall but should also increase drag?
> Very interested in the results anyone gets if you try the no slat
> configuration.
>
> Carl 701/912/amphibs
>
>
>================================================sp; -- Please Support Your Lists
Thinbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE&nbnbsp;Annual List Fund Raiser. Click
on
---------------------------------
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: ScotchBrite Pad Replacement |
>From the archives:
Once at the hanger, after making numerous, stupid mistakes, I commented that
since my brain was obviously fried, I was considering one of those baboon
brain transplants I'd been hearing such good things about. The response
from a fellow hanger rat was: "Good idea, but do you have the harness
available for them to hook up all the additional, advanced features that
would come with such an upgrade?" Alas, probably not.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, do not archive
> Trained Monkey!!!!
>
> Thank you, thank you, thank you......this should score somewhat higher
> than the aforementioned Pads.
> This thread may well unravel the entire List.....
> Just remember to include DO NOT ARCHIVE THE TRAINED MONKEY otherwise the
> Matronics servers will go bananas.
> Zed
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year... |
From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year...
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response
has been very good, but we are behind last year in the number of people that have
made a Contribution and as a percentage of the total number of subscribers.
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt,
I'm a little late this year,but I should have a check in the mail by Friday.
Regards,Bob Haring
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
Thanks George, Every little bit helps, Bill
do not archive
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
just quoting what EAA specialists at EAA told me. 25hours LSA or 40 Amateur.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Sent: Nov 29, 2006 6:36 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit
>
>
>Hi Juan,
>
>I think you could be mistaken on the 25 hour phase I test period for
>LSA airplanes. We had one fellow get only 5 hours for a Kitfox last
>year. The inspector (not DAR) felt the engine and propeller were
>established (not certified, though) partners and decided a 5 hour
>test period was appropriate.
>
>On the Experimental-AB choice the minimum is 25 hours and 40 is
>required if the power plant is considered a new combination or design.
>
>I believe the down side of Experimental - LSA is the requirement for
>the 2 day course for authority to sign off annual condition inspections.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>
>
>At 02:51 PM 11/29/2006, you wrote:
>
>>I just am in process of registeting the plane on the famous -01 FAA
>>paper. if amateur status, equals 40 hr fly off but
>>repairman's certificate for annuals is literally automatic. Option
>>two is LSA status which equals a 25 hour fly off, but would need to
>>take 16hour repairman's license. You friend probably did what a lot
>>of people have done, sign that it was 51% amateur built.
>>
>>Juan
>
>-
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Crackes in Firewall stiffeners... |
The XL has beefed-up the 601 firewall. It may give you some ideas on how to
strengthen that area.
GPJ
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
You should take a few moments and rethink your idea of oil and for that
matter water temps. If you monitor temps coming out of a cooler then tha
t will give you a false sense of security. The temp you are concerned wi
th is the actual internal one that the engine has in it. If the cooler i
s pretty effective in removing heat then the temp heading to the motor i
s going to be a number you like to see, not the real number. Here is an
example, If you look closely at the panel on my plane,, www.haaspowerair
.com you will see I have three water temp gauges. The top one is monit
oring the actual temp in the block just as it heads out to the thermosta
t housing, one thing I should add is I don't run a thermostat, I use a r
estrictor disc. That took several tries to get the exact hole size to le
t the motor cool and not let the coolant pass through the system either
too fast or too slow. The main reason I do this is I cannot have a overh
eating failure caused by a hung thermostat. The second gauge shows the t
emp as the coolant enters the radiator. The third gauge shows the temp a
t the intake side of the water pump. This way I can see how efficient th
e radiator is working. Here is a what if,,, I only look at the incoming
water temp and it shows 160 f,, I say to myself " the motor is not overh
eating". So now lets say the rad is really efficient, guess what, the ac
tual water temp in the engine is pushing 240,, thats one cooked motor. !
!!!!!!!!! The point I am trying to make is the temp of the oil or coolan
t heading back to the motor doesn't mean too much, it's the actual opera
ting temp INSIDE the motor you need to be concerned about. Just my .02 c
ents worth..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> wrote:
Remember, the 260F reading is taken from a location where the oil is HOT
after gone through the engine. Newer 912's take the reading at the oil
pump after it's gone through the cooler. Bound to be colder but I don't
know how much...
Yes, I suppose I can cut the roof of the inlet a bit to make the opening
larger by virtue of it being more "forward" because the inlet is on an
upwards angle. I have posted pictures on the forum so everyone can see w
hat I'm talking about.
Trev PageC-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 29, 2006, at 2:06 PM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:260 is too high fo
r sure. Is there a way to enlarge the source that feeds the incoming air
to the cooler??
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> wrote:
(Looks like my first post got stripped)Just wondering if anyone on the l
ist has any input on something:I'm just completed the conversion of my 6
01HD to the CZAW cowl and rad placement. It was very easy and it's a ver
y nice kit. I reckon I got an extra 5Mph out of the plane because of the
cleaner profile (I've flown it for 1 hour so far)However, I still seem
to have higher oil temps. I have an 80HP 912 and I sprung for the larger
oil cooler which I've installed as directed in front of the muffler can
. Now, the oil cooler inlet duct in the cowl is rather small: I see a 3/
4" opening at the end of the NACA duct.Has anyone with a recent R912 ins
tall on an HD or XL with the same oil cooler placement have the same iss
ue with a small opening? There seems to be a real lack of pictures of th
e install to compare mine against so maybe someone can chime in? My oil
temps reach 260F which seems a bit higher than most but I do know that
my older engine has an oil temp probe located on the bottom front oil ou
tlet fitting rather than the newer location at the oil pump housing. I r
eckon my temps are going to be higher since the oil temps are read after
the oil has gone through the engine just before going into the tank. Ho
w much higher? I have no idea but does 30F seems reasonable? More?Right
now I'm waiting to hear back from anyone before I go and do something dr
astic like make the opening bigger cutting the roof of the NACA duct for
ward or make up some kind of ducting work to come closer the oil cooler
and seal it up somehow.Thanks in advance!
Trev PageC-IDUS 601HD R912I've included a picture of the cowl so you can
see what I'm talking about on the forum roelectric.comcom/">www.builder
sbooks.comkitlog.comhomebuilthelp.comwww.matronics.com/contribution">htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhref="http://www.aeroelectr
ic.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.bu
ildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.comhref="http
://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.comhref="http://www.matron
ics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref="http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Zenith-List
========================
========================
========================
===============
<html><P>You should take a few moments and rethink your idea of oil and
for that matter water temps. If you monitor temps coming out of a cooler
then that will give you a false sense of security. The temp you are con
cerned with is the actual internal one that the engine has in it. If the
cooler is pretty effective in removing heat then the temp heading to th
e motor is going to be a number you like to see, not the real number. He
re is an example, If you look closely at the panel on my plane,, <A href
="http://www.haaspowerair.com">www.haaspowerair.com</A> yo
u will see I have three water temp gauges. The top one is monitoring the
actual temp in the block just as it heads out to the thermostat housing
, one thing I should add is I don't run a thermostat, I use a restrictor
disc. That took several tries to get the exact hole size to let the mot
or cool and not let the coolant pass through the system either too fast
or too slow. The main reason I do this is I cannot have a overheating fa
ilure caused by a hung thermostat. The second gauge shows the temp as th
e coolant enters the radiator. The third gauge shows the temp at the int
ake side of the water pump. This way I can see how efficient the radiato
r is working. Here is a what if,,, I only look at the incoming water tem
p and it shows 160 f,, I say to myself " the motor is not over
heating". So now lets say the rad is really efficient, guess w
hat, the actual water temp in the engine is pushing 240,, thats one cook
ed motor. !!!!!!!!!! The point I am trying to make is the temp of the oi
l or coolant heading back to the motor doesn't mean too much, it's the a
ctual operating temp INSIDE the motor you need to be concerned about. Ju
st my .02 cents worth..</P>
<P>do not archive</P>
<P><BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair.com<BR><BR>--
Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> wrote:<BR>Rem
ember, the 260F reading is taken from a location where the oil is HOT af
ter gone through the engine. Newer 912's take the reading at the oil pum
p after it's gone through the cooler. Bound to be colder but I don't kno
w how much...</P>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Yes, I suppose I can cut the roof of the inlet a bit to make the op
ening larger by virtue of it being more "forward" because the inlet is o
n an upwards angle. I have posted pictures on the forum so everyone can
see what I'm talking about.
<DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12
px Verdana; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; W
HITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; b
order-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-te
xt-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>Trev Page</DIV>
<DIV>C-IDUS 601HD R912</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN
></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 29, 2006, at 2:06 PM, <A href="mailto:n801bh@netzero.com">
n801bh@netzero.com</A> wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline
>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P>260 is too high for sure. Is there a way to enlarge the source that f
eeds the incoming air to the cooler??</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- Trevor Page <<A href="mailto:webmaste
r@upac.ca">webmaster@upac.ca</A>> wrote:<BR></P>
<DIV>(Looks like my first post got stripped)</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Just wondering if anyone on the list has any input on something:</D
IV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I'm just completed the conversion of my 601HD to the CZAW cowl and
rad placement. It was very easy and it's a very nice kit. I reckon I got
an extra 5Mph out of the plane because of the cleaner profile (I've flo
wn it for 1 hour so far)</DIV>
<DIV>However, I still seem to have higher oil temps. I have an 80HP 912
and I sprung for the larger oil cooler which I've installed as directed
in front of the muffler can. Now, the oil cooler inlet duct in the cowl
is rather small: I see a 3/4" opening at the end of the NACA duct.</DIV>
<DIV>Has anyone with a recent R912 install on an HD or XL with the same
oil cooler placement have the same issue with a small opening? There see
ms to be a real lack of pictures of the install to compare mine against
so maybe someone can chime in? My oil temps reach 260F which seems
a bit higher than most but I do know that my older engine has an oil te
mp probe located on the bottom front oil outlet fitting rather than the
newer location at the oil pump housing. I reckon my temps are going to b
e higher since the oil temps are read after the oil has gone through the
engine just before going into the tank. How much higher? I have no idea
but does 30F seems reasonable? More?</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Right now I'm waiting to hear back from anyone before I go and do s
omething drastic like make the opening bigger cutting the roof of the NA
CA duct forward or make up some kind of ducting work to come closer the
oil cooler and seal it up somehow.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance!</DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12
px Verdana; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; W
HITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; b
order-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-te
xt-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>Trev Page</DIV>
<DIV>C-IDUS 601HD R912</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN
></DIV>I've included a picture of the cowl so you can see what I'm talki
ng about on the forum
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="cou
rier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
roelectric.com
com/"><A href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
</A>
kitlog.com
homebuilthelp.com
<A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">www.matronics.com/cont
ribution</A>
"><A href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
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/FONT></PRE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 s
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Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Crackes in Firewall stiffeners... |
My upper firewall stiffener cracked and twisted a bit after 50 odd
hours. Probably one landing where the nose wheel caught on something.
I stop-drilled the crack and put angle stiffeners on the 45 degree ends
underneath and 25 thou material on top to extend the load farther in.
No further problems up to 585 hours.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
When I bought my wing kit partially assembled by somebody else, he had the forethought
to give me his ZAC bill of sale. See if you can get the same.
DaveG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77977#77977
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
Juan,
I, like Patrick, am using Cortec initially because ZAC recommended it. Now I love
it because of it's lack of fumes when applying it. But if you put it on too
thick or slap it on roughly so it bubbles, there is some thickness to it that
I was also concerned about. I have scraped some off in places and re-applied
due to it being too thick.
DaveG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77978#77978
Message 43
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yup it hit here in rotan at 3;30 oh well it is time , canton here we
come!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:08 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Enough!!!
>
> You mean I might get to actually turn my air conditioner off for awhile.
> You know Texas weather...it'll be back up to 80 next week.
> do not archive
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77868#77868
>
>
>
Message 44
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Ron, The high today in Dallas was 80. It hit here at about 6:45. Temp dropped
20 degrees in 30 minutes. It is now (8:40) at 44 degrees. I don't think you'll
get to Canton before it hits there, too. Sorry.
Jay in Dallas
BTW, I was born in the nearby metropolis of Snyder.
"ron wehba" <rwehba@cebridge.net> wrote:
>
>yup it hit here in rotan at 3;30 oh well it is time , canton here we
>come!!!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:08 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Enough!!!
>
>
>>
>> You mean I might get to actually turn my air conditioner off for awhile.
>> You know Texas weather...it'll be back up to 80 next week.
>> do not archive
>>
>> Dave Clay
>> Temple, TX
>> http://www.daves601xl.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77868#77868
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Another thing you can practice is landings during takeoff. What I mean here is
practice your soft field take offs always. it helps you get the feel of the
plane just before lift / stall. This will become habit if you do them all the
time.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77995#77995
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
Bill,
George is correct. You need an FAA bill of sale from every owner in the
chain; One from ZAC, and one from every previous owner.
However, if you already bought a kit from ZAC, you can register the aircraft
using the kit serial number and bill of sale provided by ZAC. Where individual
parts come from are of little concern. This truly is just a paperwork
drill - not for the weak hearted or time constrained...
Also, I noticed that someone has plans for sale on the list. When these
plans change hands, make life easier for the purchaser, and fill out an FAA bill
of sale for the plans. With those plans come a serial number for an aircraft.
Regardless if any parts were sold, a bill of sale will be required to register
the aircraft.
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
Message 47
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| Subject: | N601XT flies... for real this time... |
Gents,
Finally got the aircraft flight ready again this morning and took her up.
601 HDS / Conventional gear with aluminum spring
Corvair bored .060 over - standard WW conversion
Calsbad, Ca. SKC / 60 miles vis / 65 deg
Climb out was less than expected at about 800 FPM at 3000 rpm. The engine sputters
just a little bit at full throttle, so this is the performance cracked
just a bit from full. I have to tune in the aerocarb a little bit this week.
I am still indicating high oil temps, so a new sender is on order. Indicated
temps are not jiving with laser temp finder on the ground. It required full
right aileron trim to go hands off. More flight stuff to follow in the next few
days...
Some things to mention. DO NOT waste your money on Azusa brakes. They
couldn't slow a piss ant's motorbike. I bought a hydraulic disc upgrade from
GPSAC, and after a little bit of fab work to install, they work much better.
I still saved a few bucks from the Matco setup, but it was not worth the heartache.
Also, for the tailwheel folks, I would bypass the tailwheel from the plans
altogether. I installed the Matco full swiveling taiwheel this week, and
love it. It is a very good deal at under $150, and installation is a piece of
cake.
Someday I'll get somebody to take some pictures of the plane in flight and
forward them to the list...
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
The form that you will use to verify that you did > 51% of the work is:
FAA FORM 8000-38, FABRICATION/ASSEMBLY OPERATION CHECKLIST
Go to www.faa.gov and search for 8000-38.
Even though I built from '51% kit' my DAR made me fill out the form
to 'verify' that I did >50% of the work.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XL, 408 hours
Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 49x64 wood prop
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
> ....snip
> started kit and successfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount
> of work can be accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to
> be granted a repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall
> ....snip
> N505WP
> 601XL-3300
> 96 hours
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